Guild Wars 2

So today I have managed to do the entire Eastwatch chain from start to finish, a total of 4 times. I need Vinetooth Prime for one of my parts of Glint’s shield. Not only have I failed to complete this task, ALL four times. I have yet to see a group break a single bar in any of the fights.

I have gone so far as to start coaching for the final battle before the event chain even begins. Asking people if they know how to break the bar, instructing those that do not. Giving links to the wiki page so they can all determine what skills they need.

Then during the battle. I call out every single defiance bar. “Break Bar – Use CC Now”. Still…. not a single bar has been broken. Large group, small group. Doesn’t matter. The general masses just can’t do this event.

At this point. I would be willing to just hire a guild or a group of players to get this done.

Anet. You need to do a better job of explaining these mechanics to all of yours players. They simply think they can 1,1,1,1 their way through most content and obviously that is not the case.

you may need to gather a couple friends or guildies who know to bring extra strong ccs such as electric wyvern (ranger), flesh golem (necro), and basilisk venom (thief).

in addition, dont call it in map chat so you dont bring in a bunch of clueless scrubs. dont bring a tag and use a leaderless squad if necessary to help prevent troll tags (but invite everyone who appears and ask them in squad chat not to tag up). this event scales, so distilling your group down to fewer people who are doing it right will have a strong impact on the break bar.

if you cant fulfill these suggestions, make another character so that you can. you may need to be open and proactive to achieve.

Maybe they need to put defiance bars on some of the regular mobs in vanilla PvE. Make the bars easily break using the right skills but the mobs are invulnerable until you do. That way people can learn to both see and react to defiance bars.

There is also an adrenal mushroom in the room. Most groups(actually every group I’ve ever done the event with, both successful and failures) let this very useful shroom go to waste.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Maybe they need to put defiance bars on some of the regular mobs in vanilla PvE. Make the bars easily break using the right skills but the mobs are invulnerable until you do. That way people can learn to both see and react to defiance bars.

Rolling devils have defiance bars that are easily broken; I don’t see people breaking them generally. Pearl-laden clams in Ember Bay can be opened only with CC and yet many people just give up after they can’t damage them.

Admittedly, those aren’t in “vanilla PvE” and they don’t come with special instructions. However, I consider that sufficient circumstantial evidence to suggest that those unfamiliar with CC|defiance need a different sort of help to learn it.

As I (and others) have said in other threads: Vinetooth Prime does die when someone takes the time to explain the fight mechanics before triggering the event, regardless of whether it’s a small party or mini-zerg. Unlike most of the game, this event does require cooperation & coordination to succeed and I think that’s a good thing, because this might be the one place that people come motivated to learn, where the stakes are relatively low and the opportunity for patience is high.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Maybe they need to put defiance bars on some of the regular mobs in vanilla PvE. Make the bars easily break using the right skills but the mobs are invulnerable until you do. That way people can learn to both see and react to defiance bars.

Rolling devils have defiance bars that are easily broken; I don’t see people breaking them generally. Pearl-laden clams in Ember Bay can be opened only with CC and yet many people just give up after they can’t damage them.

Admittedly, those aren’t in “vanilla PvE” and they don’t come with special instructions. However, I consider that sufficient circumstantial evidence to suggest that those unfamiliar with CC|defiance need a different sort of help to learn it.

As I (and others) have said in other threads: Vinetooth Prime does die when someone takes the time to explain the fight mechanics before triggering the event, regardless of whether it’s a small party or mini-zerg. Unlike most of the game, this event does require cooperation & coordination to succeed and I think that’s a good thing, because this might be the one place that people come motivated to learn, where the stakes are relatively low and the opportunity for patience is high.

Rolling devils have defiance bars that are easily broken; I don’t see people breaking them generally. Pearl-laden clams in Ember Bay can be opened only with CC and yet many people just give up after they can’t damage them.

Yah, that’s why it should be in vanilla maps on low grade generic foes. Adding a mechanic like that after 80 levels (and multiple times 80 levels if they have multiple alts) of only using autoattack is to late. People are set in their ways by then. They “know” what to expect and they have preferred skills and rotations. The time to teach them to look for a defiance bar and get them to use against it is during the leveling up process when they are still learning their skills. Waiting till the average person is level 80 is waiting till to late to introduce the concept of looking for new mechanics.

The problem with some break bars is that they’re balanced around the assumption that everyone has the equivalent of a 5s stun, when realistically most have the equivalent of a 1s stun at best. It’d also be a lot more fair for groups if the conditions ticked simultaneously.

To make it fair for everyone, they should simply use counter magic to give everyone an ability that damages the break bar whenever it’s time sensitive. It probably won’t be a problem in the next expansion however, assuming they use mounted abilities.

Healix.5819:

The problem with some break bars is that they’re balanced around the assumption that everyone has the equivalent of a 5s stun, when realistically most have the equivalent of a 1s stun at best. It’d also be a lot more fair for groups if the conditions ticked simultaneously.

I believe most champions start with 600 break bar health and scale an additional 180 per person who joins the fight. This means that if everyone brought a 2s stun with them every break bar everywhere would be broken. Sadly there are not enough Bearbows around anymore to bring the CC we need.

Healix.5819:

The problem with some break bars is that they’re balanced around the assumption that everyone has the equivalent of a 5s stun, when realistically most have the equivalent of a 1s stun at best. It’d also be a lot more fair for groups if the conditions ticked simultaneously.

To make it fair for everyone, they should simply use counter magic to give everyone an ability that damages the break bar whenever it’s time sensitive. It probably won’t be a problem in the next expansion however, assuming they use mounted abilities.

Every-EVERY class has strong cc if u use the right utilities and weapons. Problem is people are too kitten lazy/ignorant to use them.Best example is when chronos use TW on vinetooth instead of moa. When rangers camp longbow and tiger all day long instead using cc pets and axe on swap or something. What about the ton of necros that camp scepter/dagger and never use gs or warhorn?

Even if anet used cc bars on weak enemies people would still just ignore them and straight dps. The problem is the 1111111 mentality as said above that has been going for 3+years straight. Add to that, a lot of people still use skill-clicking so practically cant do kitten at any given circumstance including vinewrath.

Azoqu.8917:

Healix.5819:

The problem with some break bars is that they’re balanced around the assumption that everyone has the equivalent of a 5s stun, when realistically most have the equivalent of a 1s stun at best. It’d also be a lot more fair for groups if the conditions ticked simultaneously.

I believe most champions start with 600 break bar health and scale an additional 180 per person who joins the fight. This means that if everyone brought a 2s stun with them every break bar everywhere would be broken. Sadly there are not enough Bearbows around anymore to bring the CC we need.

I don’t know about the numbers, but breakbars on some bosses seem to scale faster than others. Vinetooth prime and the wyverns especially. I’ve seen vinetooth prime taken down flawlessly by <10 people…but the zerg fails every time.

Azoqu.8917:

Healix.5819:

The problem with some break bars is that they’re balanced around the assumption that everyone has the equivalent of a 5s stun, when realistically most have the equivalent of a 1s stun at best. It’d also be a lot more fair for groups if the conditions ticked simultaneously.

I believe most champions start with 600 break bar health and scale an additional 180 per person who joins the fight. This means that if everyone brought a 2s stun with them every break bar everywhere would be broken. Sadly there are not enough Bearbows around anymore to bring the CC we need.

I have joked about that as well but realistically speaking a bearbow is useless for that too because it is not just a matter of having CCs equipped, you also have to use it at the right time. There have been plenty of times when I was fighting VP or one of wyverns and I keep seeing stuns and dazes being used on them when the bar wasn’t up. Obviously those are not from a bearbow but I doubt they would be doing much better.

Jnaathra.6549:

So today I have managed to do the entire Eastwatch chain from start to finish, a total of 4 times. I need Vinetooth Prime for one of my parts of Glint’s shield. Not only have I failed to complete this task, ALL four times. I have yet to see a group break a single bar in any of the fights.

I have gone so far as to start coaching for the final battle before the event chain even begins. Asking people if they know how to break the bar, instructing those that do not. Giving links to the wiki page so they can all determine what skills they need.

Then during the battle. I call out every single defiance bar. “Break Bar – Use CC Now”. Still…. not a single bar has been broken. Large group, small group. Doesn’t matter. The general masses just can’t do this event.

At this point. I would be willing to just hire a guild or a group of players to get this done.

Anet. You need to do a better job of explaining these mechanics to all of yours players. They simply think they can 1,1,1,1 their way through most content and obviously that is not the case.

Me, myself and 10 million players doing Dragon Stand begs to differ XD

Its 600 until a 6th person show up then it goes up 180 per Player.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defiance_Bar

So 5 People is the best number you can have.
If you have trouble with the breakbar try to bring Mesmers with Signet of Humility and Mimic, they are Breakbarkiller, take 2000 down when they use Moa twice.

HenryChinaski.4732:

Its 600 until a 6th person show up then it goes up 180 per Player.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defiance_Bar

So 5 People is the best number you can have.
If you have trouble with the breakbar try to bring Mesmers with Signet of Humility and Mimic, they are Breakbarkiller, take 2000 down when they use Moa twice.

mimic doesnt copy your elite, but continuum split lets you.

Azoqu.8917:

Sadly there are not enough Bearbows around anymore to bring the CC we need.

I’m pretty sure that all those bearbows would use their CC randomly, so hardly in the moment you need it.

It can be killed without ever breaking the bar so….yea. ¯\(?)/¯

Took me two tries to get it done for the HOPE collection I’m working on. The first time we didn’t break the bar at all and ran out of time. The second time we broke the bar twice and ended up finishing it with a minute to spare. It’s all about breaking the bar. People just need to learn.

Just breaking it once is pretty much a guaranteed win.

I wonder how many people use adrenal mushrooms to recharge their skills to break the bar twice with them.

Placing the breakbar mechanics in lower levels isn’t really going to solve the problem. Old players have already passed that content, and new HoT players can get a boost that let’s them skip it.

Last time I did Jormag some time ago I still didn’t see players bothering to use the shield on the gun to block the aoe fear. That’s content that’s almost 5 years old, they would rather sit in a group and get rez’d.

Players are lazy for the most part, as long as they’re alive and can hit 1 it’s fine, when they go down they get rez’d so it doesn’t matter much. That’s one of the problems of the downed mechanic is that it lets players become lazy and not really dying right away and having to run back for their mistake. Most of the world bosses are just sit in one spot and hit 1, let others do the extra mechanics, that laziness carried over to HoT.

As for vinetooth, as mentioned try taking a smaller group and not a map zerg with you.

Vayne.8563:

I wonder how many people use adrenal mushrooms to recharge their skills to break the bar twice with them.

I’ve found that it’s nice to have but not necessary. There’s a decent amount of time in between break bar phases that most CC skills are off cooldown, with the exception of elites like humility/moa.

Aside from possible lack of knowledge within the playerbase, there’s also a pair of issues with Vinetooth that make breaking him difficult. It’s hard to tell when it’s going to start its break phase, but even if players figure that out, it’s especially hard on melee who have to chase it halfway across the arena while on a very short timer. The bounce it does while its vulnerable makes it a nuisance to follow and causes a lot of wasted CC.

I just did it about 30 minutes ago. Opened up the LFG on a whim, saw a group of about 8 people who were going for it, joined them and we manged to take it down with less than a minute to go.

I have to say though that the defiance bar on that thing has ridiculous scaling. I would hit it with SoH and maybe take out 1/5 of the defiance, maybe. I’m just glad others in that group brought heavy CC as well or we never would have broken the bar. As it is, the group took its time to figure out how to break the bar.