Guild Wars 2

So i have this dilemma in game that starts at breach. Players dont want to ress or help downed players. Everyone is selfish sadly and the worst part is on the vinewrath.

I have a very specific question. Does dead players really scales up the champions and bosses from breach/vinewrath events? I would like an official answer, or if theres is an official answer just post the link here. Thanks in advance.

I would like also to clarify that no, im not the downed/dead player, im the fighting player who does care about his map peeps and does want to ress others, while the whole map hate me because i do want to ress people.

I feel people is rude when they ask others to waypoint back when they die, “because it scales the boss”, knowing that theres a long way and skritt tunnels are always closed at that time. Yes they do get rewarded and receive the reward but still…

“Events can detect that players have not performed any actions relating to the event within a period of time and will scale down the event accordingly.”

Source: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dynamic_event

Events scale down when some of the players are no longer participating. Though, it is still better to waypoint away so that you do not get in the way of people trying to res people who are only downed. You still get your full loot for participation.

My general observation is it does when I’m fighting the troll during breach.

ALso people act like it is easy to rez people, especially those that are full dead. If it is so easy to just stand in one place and press F, people won’t die in the first place when they can move around.

A better question is “do you still get the rewards anyway if you WP”. If the answer is yes, those dead people should no doubt way point back.

Also to the person above me. It depend what they mean “period of time”.

People that are fully defeated should WP and run back.
Simply as that.

Having people spend time to rez someone that is fully defeated is silly, especially considering that those people quite often end up dying themselves. And as such the event itself loses out on the damage/support from that player for quite some time.

Here’s the thing about enemies in the Silverwastes – stopping to rez a dead player will get you killed. As a Thief, stealth should grant me immunity to targeted damage, and I often attempt to rez players in Shadow Refuge, but guess what? Thrasher and Teragriff tentacles still reach me, Teragriffs can still charge through my refuge (long after I’ve stealthed) and still hit me.

The point being: you’re doing nobody a favour by staying around dead, and it’s more advantageous to waypoint and run back. Even if it’s not an issue of event scaling, stopping to rez a dead player (which takes time) takes away from the overall damage done during events, therefore extending the events. This is especially the case in the Hidden depths where players tend to stay dead around the large chest – stopping to rez them puts players in a scenario where they will die in 2 seconds flat.

If you’re downed, rezzing is mandatory as it’s quicker and gives back the lost damage due to the player being downed. If you’re dead, waypoint.

Lazaar.9123:

“Events can detect that players have not performed any actions relating to the event within a period of time and will scale down the event accordingly.”

Scaling worked differently a year ago. It used to scale as people actually joined, but large groups could exploit that. Now it assumes all nearby players are participating. It probably does eventually downscale for people that aren’t actually participating, but the problem is, how long does that take?

It’s not that hard to test if you can find a willing zerg to all tag and run, except 1 person. Unlike bosses, spawned adds however do not downscale.

laokoko.7403:

A better question is “do you still get the rewards anyway if you WP”. If the answer is yes, those dead people should no doubt way point back.

Yes. Contribution is severely broken. Participate in the killing of a single mob and you’re done. Go AFK somewhere and enjoy your rewards. For single mob encounters, such as bosses, a single auto attack will do.

I typically waypoint if I go completely dead in events like these, and yes you do miss out on the loot- but not the xp/karma- if the event is finished while you’re running back. It’s annoying and it has caused me to pause and think about WPing or not in some situations. To fix this, especially in Silverwaste where there is only ONE waypoint all the way across the map because the others are typically contested as well as being forced to run the entire distance because the Skritt caves are typically closed during breach, they should award the loot even if you had to WP rez since you get the other rewards as well.

Since these events in SW are about the loot, and especially not the XP, it probably leads more people to just sleeping on the ground.

The breach is a timed event, 5 minutes to be precise. If you stop to rez dead noobs you will probably fail the event.

Vinewrath people will rez during phase 1. Phase 2 is similar to breach. I will rez downed players but not dead. If people are dying you will probably fail the event anyway.

LoL in the maps ive been people wont even ress the downed, at least some of you would help the downed, thats a little hope. I wish anet.net let us know how scaling in this event really works.

I don’t not rez because I’m worried about the scaling…I’m worried that if I and other players stop DPS’ing we won’t kill the boss within the time limit.

Sube Dai.8496:

Vinewrath people will rez during phase 1. Phase 2 is similar to breach. I will rez downed players but not dead. If people are dying you will probably fail the event anyway.

During Phase 1, I don’t always rez downed. If the player in question was getting ganged up on by a cluster of Mordrem, trying to rez them will result in 2 downed/dead. If I can get them up quickly without going down myself, I will rez them.

zorifour.2173:

LoL in the maps ive been people wont even ress the downed, at least some of you would help the downed, thats a little hope. I wish anet.net let us know how scaling in this event really works.

I think it’s a bit exaggeration if no one rezed the downed. It’s probably just people not paying attention. Most of the time I use spirit elite on my ranger so I can rez downed player more easily.

And it’s not like it is easy to distinguish between downed player and full dead with so many things going around.

Rashy.4165:

Sube Dai.8496:

Vinewrath people will rez during phase 1. Phase 2 is similar to breach. I will rez downed players but not dead. If people are dying you will probably fail the event anyway.

During Phase 1, I don’t always rez downed. If the player in question was getting ganged up on by a cluster of Mordrem, trying to rez them will result in 2 downed/dead. If I can get them up quickly without going down myself, I will rez them.

I think that goes without saying. But maybe not…

If you go down on your own, away from allies, surrounded by mobs – don’t expect a rez.

Buncha selfish people, “omg if I stop to rez, I ll fail the event” Ya, maybe… But if Everyone was standing where they are supposed to be, and not spread out, the group could speed rez anyone downed fast enough. Half the events fail because people still treat them at solo events, while standing next to other people, soloing the same event. Every man/woman for themselves. Seems the majority of players still don’t understand the concept of splashes and skills that become 100 times more powerful when used with others.

I rez people almost everywhere, but not during major events in the Silverwastes. Because dying myself isn’t helping them.

This is a matter of practicality not being a nice guy.

Kentaine.4692:

I typically waypoint if I go completely dead in events like these, and yes you do miss out on the loot- but not the xp/karma- if the event is finished while you’re running back. It’s annoying and it has caused me to pause and think about WPing or not in some situations. To fix this, especially in Silverwaste where there is only ONE waypoint all the way across the map because the others are typically contested as well as being forced to run the entire distance because the Skritt caves are typically closed during breach, they should award the loot even if you had to WP rez since you get the other rewards as well.

Since these events in SW are about the loot, and especially not the XP, it probably leads more people to just sleeping on the ground.

What loot? There is no loot in Breach or VW or basically anywhere for that matter. There is the reward chest in the bottom right that you get if you got bronze+ credit for the event. Same for VW big chest, you get it if you got credit. So unless you died instantly you don’t miss anything at all (and staying dead won’t help anyway).

Wahaha.7938:

Kentaine.4692:

I typically waypoint if I go completely dead in events like these, and yes you do miss out on the loot- but not the xp/karma- if the event is finished while you’re running back. It’s annoying and it has caused me to pause and think about WPing or not in some situations. To fix this, especially in Silverwaste where there is only ONE waypoint all the way across the map because the others are typically contested as well as being forced to run the entire distance because the Skritt caves are typically closed during breach, they should award the loot even if you had to WP rez since you get the other rewards as well.

Since these events in SW are about the loot, and especially not the XP, it probably leads more people to just sleeping on the ground.

What loot? There is no loot in Breach or VW or basically anywhere for that matter. There is the reward chest in the bottom right that you get if you got bronze+ credit for the event. Same for VW big chest, you get it if you got credit. So unless you died instantly you don’t miss anything at all (and staying dead won’t help anyway).

You’re right, I’d forgotten how rewards are given in SW versus everywhere else. It’s been a week or two since I did anything in there. Everywhere else has trained them to not port away because champ event/world boss if you port away and can’t get back in time to tag you only get credit for completing the event and not the chests.

Forced WPs for the dead during world boss fights would be nice…

Reanne.5462:

Buncha selfish people, “omg if I stop to rez, I ll fail the event” Ya, maybe… But if Everyone was standing where they are supposed to be, and not spread out, the group could speed rez anyone downed fast enough. Half the events fail because people still treat them at solo events, while standing next to other people, soloing the same event. Every man/woman for themselves. Seems the majority of players still don’t understand the concept of splashes and skills that become 100 times more powerful when used with others.

The problem is that you cant always see if somebody is downed or dead in the heat of the moment.
I typically only ress if I can get some sort of confirmation that its a downed, not dead.

If I am not sure I wont ress and keep my dps up.
You can thanks the lazy people that dont WP when dead for not being ressed when downed.

The problem with ress vs wp aren’t the lazy people that cry for ress, the problem are the people that actually ress the dead.

laokoko.7403:

zorifour.2173:

LoL in the maps ive been people wont even ress the downed, at least some of you would help the downed, thats a little hope. I wish anet.net let us know how scaling in this event really works.

I think it’s a bit exaggeration if no one rezed the downed. It’s probably just people not paying attention. Most of the time I use spirit elite on my ranger so I can rez downed player more easily.

And it’s not like it is easy to distinguish between downed player and full dead with so many things going around.

Thanks for trying to rez! I’m sure sometimes people can’t or my small asura body gets lost in the chaos. Other times though, I slowly bleed to death at the feet of 10 different people autoattacking, not moving an inch. They’re suddenly aware of me when I’m full dead though, since I get yelled at to wp almost as soon as I die.

Kentaine.4692:

I typically waypoint if I go completely dead in events like these, and yes you do miss out on the loot-

Does anyone know is this is true? say I did some damage to the champion troll but died and WP back and can’t run back in time.

Do I still get the troll Extracted Part from using the extractor?

laokoko.7403:

Kentaine.4692:

I typically waypoint if I go completely dead in events like these, and yes you do miss out on the loot-

Does anyone know is this is true? say I did some damage to the champion troll but died and WP back and can’t run back in time.

Do I still get the troll Extracted Part from using the extractor?

You should get the extracted part in the chest at the bottom right of your screen. You don’t need to physically loot the corpse.

Not sure about upscaling but there are a number of factors when it comes to rez’ing players.

Keep in mind that I’m gonna be in combat which will make it take longer. If rushing in to get a downed player back up will just result in going down myself then no I won’t. That doesn’t help anyone.

Downed is not so bad but dead is another issue. How far is the nearest waypoint and how long would it take for you to run back vs how long will it take me to get you back up from dead while in combat? Remember that for the duration of me getting you back up from dead I’m not actively helping the cause. So you being dead is not just one person out of the fight but potentially two or more. It would be better for everyone if I kept on fighting and you just waypointed then ran back. In some cases it is even faster.

As for the waypoint being farther, it has to be far enough that it would take you over 100% longer to return than it would for me to get you up from dead while in combat.

Why?

Let’s say you are dead. It takes me 30 seconds to get you back up from dead while in combat. That is 30 seconds times the number of people out of the fight. Two of us so 30 * 2 = 60 man seconds are lost.

If you have to run back and it takes 60 seconds to run back then I’m not out of the fight. Only you are. So 60 seconds times one person which is 60 man seconds again.

Only if the time it takes to run back is greater than the time it takes to get you up from dead is it of greater benefit to the group for you to be rez’ed.

Reviving someone downed takes a little time. Reviving someone defeated takes way too freaking long. I can understand someone not wanting to run back from the starting area, though.

From what I’ve experienced, it’s actually the distraction of having dead people around you that causes the most problems.

For example, at the vinewrath, I’ve managed to kill one of the bosses with 4 or 5 other people easily. But, if you run in with 20 and 15 of the guys wipe, the 5 left struggle and feel like they have to try to res the people around them.

Suddenly their attention is drawn away from their surroundings and evading attacks or trying to kill the boss. All ends in catastrophe.

Arguably, this could be to do with the scaling of the event, but I don’t really think so. I think the scaling disappears fairly rapidly when people get killed. 2 or 3 times I have seen the last few people alive manage to kill the boss even when he has a reasonable percentage of health left.

So… I still take my stance that the effect is mainly psychological. If you die at vinewrath and there are too few to res you, just WP. I know it’s more fun to watch the event and not have to run back, but scaling or not you are impeding your fellow players.

If 3 people ress someone shouldnt take long, like 5 seconds (if the circumstances allowed it), i dont know i just feel wrong if i dont even try.

The issue is less with the scaling from dead players (even though its usually what people complain about in-game) and more about the time spent on the rez by the players who are still alive. Rezzing fully dead players takes a long time, doubly so if you’re in combat, which if you’re fighting a boss, you almost certainly are.

In terms of the VW events in particular (as well as the breach), time is of the essence, so having 3 players waste 5-10 seconds of their own DPS to rez someone hurts the damage output of the whole group.

And sure, 3 players rezzing one dead person isn’t the end of the world in the grand scheme of things if you have 15-30 players in the group fighting the boss, but then you consider that there are usually multiple people who die during these events, so that gets multiplied for each one who dies.

Then you have the fact that rezzing someone can often put those people in danger of dying themselves, which can lead to a snowball effect where half the group is either wiped out or attempting to rez others (whether they be dead players or those who get downed trying to rez said dead players).

There’s also the fact that while rezzing dead players usually isn’t worth it, rezzing downed players certainly is. But completely dead players sticking around not waypointing makes it harder to rez the downed if they’re all clustered together. Many times I’ll go to rez someone that’s downed only to have my character start the process of reviving someone who’s fully dead nearby instead, at which point I have to move to cancel the revive channel, manually target the downed player (not always easy in a combat situation with the targeting in this game) and start rezzing them instead.

Not leaving, expecting to be rezed, these are things that only aid in helping it fail. Its rather selfish I think, to want people to stop doing damage and winning to pick you up because you didn’t do the right thing to get out of the lazer or what have you.

The dead don’t scale the events.

The dead don’t help the DPS any, but they are not hurting the events. They often become distractions and block other interactables, but they are not scaling the event. The often block other players who are just downed, and this hurts. But if they are out of the way, it is best for them to stay there dead and get a rez after the event finishes so they will be there and ready for the following defense stage instead of having to run all the way back.

Rezzing the downed is a must if you can do so safely without dying yourself. Fully dead people will not be rezzed as there is not enough time to do so and still provide DPS. You actually are hindering progress usually if you try to rez a completely dead player because you are taking away very needed DPS. Best thing to do is DPS and finish the event, then try to rez.

Wipes during the VW and the Breach are almost always due to groups of players either not knowing the tactics and wiping or just plain trolls ruining the events. The dead players are not the cause of the failures as they are often blamed.

The best thing you can do is to communicate and teach the tactics for each encounter every time you do the event. New players are always joining the maps and many do not know or understand what to do or why. The best maps are with players who understand the tactics.

Reanne.5462:

Buncha selfish people, “omg if I stop to rez, I ll fail the event” Ya, maybe… But if Everyone was standing where they are supposed to be, and not spread out, the group could speed rez anyone downed fast enough. Half the events fail because people still treat them at solo events, while standing next to other people, soloing the same event. Every man/woman for themselves. Seems the majority of players still don’t understand the concept of splashes and skills that become 100 times more powerful when used with others.

errr I don’t think you understand how this works.
First of all, if you’ve participated in the lanes and die during one of the champs (or even during a lane fight) you will still get full participation karma/xp as well as the chest at the end. You don’t get drops from any of the mobs either way. So unless you’re kitten y enough to literally die all the time and spend the entirety of the vinewrath time running back you do not miss out on ANYTHING by running back when dead.

Now, on the other hand, if you’re dead during a champion and sit there asking for a rez you endanger other people because
a) bosses are timed so you sometimes don’t have the luxury to waste x amount of seconds to rez someone
b) all the bosses have some sort of guaranteed(ish) death attack that, if you don’t avoid it, you die (and people who rez often can’t properly avoid it)
c) the boss will scale down if people are dead, and especially if they waypoint. The boss will NOT downscale for people that rez.
Hence full-rezing people during a champ (and sometimes during a lane) is generally a really terrible idea and usually the number one reason why the overall group fails. In short, it’s usually dead people sitting there and crying for a rez too lazy to run back that make everyone fail. Who’s selfish now. Downed people should generally, but not 100% of the time be rezed, dead dead people should only be rezed in very few situations.

And don’t even get me started on what a stupid idea it is to stack during a lot of the lane fighting.

OP it is not because they are selfish but it is because rezzing make someone open to attacks and takes away from the overall DPS. By being dead, you are making it more difficult for everyone else and increasing the chance that the group will wipe.

It is actually more selfish to expect a rez.

You should res people. People should get res’d.

It’s quicker to res someone than it is for them to run back. You then have that person back in the fight.

Now if you are getting downed a lot, considered taking off some of the zerker gear. I’d rather you did like 33% less damage and not die, than to do that extra damage and be dead half of the time. Corpses do less damage than Nomads. (On flip side, if you find yourself never dipping under 80% HP, you could put on some more damage)

Lastly, I’d rather people take risks for tactical advantage, then to play it safe because they don’t want to risk the WP walk.

We may want to live up to that “nicest community” title.

I’ll be honest as someone who is a bit tired and has played Gw2 for years now..

I will still stop to res or help up Downed players in the middle of Vine wrath fights…

IF they havent gone down for a stupid reason.

This is the Silver wastes, Gw2 is two and a half years old.. If you’ve manage to hit level 80 to be on this map you should probably know how to dodge and play yoru class well enough to Not die to simple or obvious mechanics.

Die to Lag or a poorly timed dodge or RNG AoE, whatever.. thats fine
that happens to even the best of us.

Got downed because you stood in the Thrashers Giant Poison AoE spew and tried to slowly walk backwards out of it? GL, I’m not even going to bother with you, no one is…

The truth of the matter is that you’re asking the wrong question. “Why doesn’t anyone Rez me when i’m fully dead in a timed event that determines the fate and success of the map as a whole?” Isn’t the proper way to start this convo.

“Why don’t people Rez me when i get downed?” Is a bit closer.

“Why do i keep getting downed?” Is the correct place to start..

TL;DR
Gw2 players can be perfectly lovely and are very helpful and kind.. We just don’t enjoy or see profit in spending the time to Res a Downed player who is playing badly or stupidly, and Rezing a fully dead player is a 60-90s process when done alone in the middle of combat.. And, if you managed to die in the middle of a large zerg, you probably weren’t having a good day and weren’t playing well and Probably don’t have a lot to offer the mass when you’re standing up either..

Marthkus.4615:

You should res people. People should get res’d.

It’s quicker to res someone than it is for them to run back. You then have that person back in the fight.

Now if you are getting downed a lot, considered taking off some of the zerker gear. I’d rather you did like 33% less damage and not die, than to do that extra damage and be dead half of the time. Corpses do less damage than Nomads. (On flip side, if you find yourself never dipping under 80% HP, you could put on some more damage)

Lastly, I’d rather people take risks for tactical advantage, then to play it safe because they don’t want to risk the WP walk.

We may want to live up to that “nicest community” title.

It’s not faster if the person doing the rez gets killed. It’s not helpful to everyone doing the event if it lowers the DPS enough that the event fails due to not being able to get the boss to 0 HP before the timer ends.

Rezing fully dead people when you are in combat (which you would be during a boss attack) takes forever and a day. During which time you are immobile. Meaning you can’t dodge or move out of a red circle. That leaves the person rezing in a dangerous spot for forever and a day.

I don’t know about your character, but mine can’t take being hit for forever and a day and remain alive.

Seera.5916:

Marthkus.4615:

You should res people. People should get res’d.

It’s quicker to res someone than it is for them to run back. You then have that person back in the fight.

Now if you are getting downed a lot, considered taking off some of the zerker gear. I’d rather you did like 33% less damage and not die, than to do that extra damage and be dead half of the time. Corpses do less damage than Nomads. (On flip side, if you find yourself never dipping under 80% HP, you could put on some more damage)

Lastly, I’d rather people take risks for tactical advantage, then to play it safe because they don’t want to risk the WP walk.

We may want to live up to that “nicest community” title.

It’s not faster if the person doing the rez gets killed. It’s not helpful to everyone doing the event if it lowers the DPS enough that the event fails due to not being able to get the boss to 0 HP before the timer ends.

Rezing fully dead people when you are in combat (which you would be during a boss attack) takes forever and a day. During which time you are immobile. Meaning you can’t dodge or move out of a red circle. That leaves the person rezing in a dangerous spot for forever and a day.

I don’t know about your character, but mine can’t take being hit for forever and a day and remain alive.

Why is one person rezing?

When I press F, I should see the “target has too many resseructers” message.

And if you can’t res without dying, then don’t.