Guild Wars 2

https://youtu.be/XwfhSrjyrbU?t=3m47s For the people acting like VA can’t make or break a scene.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

“if a video game is wildly successful, actors should share in its financial success”

I would have no issue with this IF every other person involved also received that same “bonus” payout. Companies do still do bonuses if they do well (not many, but that’s not the point). I can see voice actors asking for some quality of life changes when taking a gig, but royalties? smh

Look at games with great VA and games with lousy VA — it makes a big difference in the gaming experience of many players. Why shouldn’t the VAs share in the success of hte project, just as actors do in film or TV? Not every employee is intrinsic to the experience, although maybe key grips and “best boys” should also get royalties — if they do, their union can also negotiate with the producers for better minimum contract standards.

They do share in the success of the project. They get invited back to do more work, which generates further revenue for them. A VA isn’t (necessarily) more important than say, a programmer that implements the game’s mechanics. Yes, the difference is that the programmer is on staff (possibly, many are contractors that just get rotated out when their contract is up, which isn’t that different than a VA) where as the VA is an ‘as needed’ basis, but a VA shouldn’t be paid substantially more for what equates to less work (in theory). Maybe I should say if it equates to less work.

We can’t determine whether ‘greed’ is a factor here, when it comes to base financials, because we don’t know how much these people pull in annually.

You just have to compare American voice actors to Japanese voice actor to realise that many American voice actors are terrible!

I refuse to watch anime dubs, firstly due to the obvious americanisation of the original animes’ dialogue, and second american voice actors have no feeling, or emotion when they do their lines.
With Japanese voice actors, you can tell they are putting in the effort to make the character seem real. American voice actors are just drone people reading off a script. Just no love for the work they are doing.

Do forget a strike, they need a pay cut!

To all them voice actors out there. Remember everyone gets paid well in a successful game. And there are many kitten games out there. Be glad you arent part of them. However if you feel wrong take up arms and fight but be wary there are people out there who are really willing to take over your position at a moments notice. The main reason behind this is because you come from games that are well loved. There are people who are really passionate about these things and can even match up to your talent through sheer practice and hardwork. That said I wish you guys all the best in your endeavour and I hope you get what you deserve whatever it may be.

Buy Some Apples.6390:

You just have to compare American voice actors to Japanese voice actor to realise that many American voice actors are terrible!

I refuse to watch anime dubs, firstly due to the obvious americanisation of the original animes’ dialogue, and second american voice actors have no feeling, or emotion when they do their lines.
With Japanese voice actors, you can tell they are putting in the effort to make the character seem real. American voice actors are just drone people reading off a script. Just no love for the work they are doing.

Do forget a strike, they need a pay cut!

Fandubs are a different story usually. I don’t like official dubs for the same reason: so much gets edited out, even entire episodes or even seasons if they’re “irreconcilable” with middle class standards and tastes even though there are many Americans who don’t share those stuffy values.

I watch subtitled K-On! and it’s great. Even if without the subtitles the emotion and facial expressions make it entertaining enough. It’s an anime where they have their emotional ups and downs and isn’t just drama for its own sake like a lot of American shows that always seem to love beating the audience over the head with some agenda and insulting them.

I personally love my female sylvari engineer’s voice, so I hope it doesn’t hurt any future voice recordings.

Buy Some Apples.6390:

You just have to compare American voice actors to Japanese voice actor to realise that many American voice actors are terrible!

I refuse to watch anime dubs, firstly due to the obvious americanisation of the original animes’ dialogue, and second american voice actors have no feeling, or emotion when they do their lines.
With Japanese voice actors, you can tell they are putting in the effort to make the character seem real. American voice actors are just drone people reading off a script. Just no love for the work they are doing.

Do forget a strike, they need a pay cut!

Just gonna leave that there for you.

GetOverIt.

DragonflyDusk.6582:

I personally love my female sylvari engineer’s voice, so I hope it doesn’t hurt any future voice recordings.

Buy Some Apples.6390:

You just have to compare American voice actors to Japanese voice actor to realise that many American voice actors are terrible!

I refuse to watch anime dubs, firstly due to the obvious americanisation of the original animes’ dialogue, and second american voice actors have no feeling, or emotion when they do their lines.
With Japanese voice actors, you can tell they are putting in the effort to make the character seem real. American voice actors are just drone people reading off a script. Just no love for the work they are doing.

Do forget a strike, they need a pay cut!

Just gonna leave that there for you.

GetOverIt.

The problem for me at least isn’t a simple translation but changing entire episodes, references, and even relationships (like the infamous Sailor Uranus and Sailor Neptune change.) In Japanese Dragon kitten there’s blood, alcohol, and other things that get edited out in the American version. I watched a Japanese version of Dragon kitten and felt so cheated by the (official) dubbers.

There are those who do it right and those who do it wrong.

There just happens to be a hell of a lot more who do it wrong.

How greedy can they get? They should get a nice check for good VA that goes without saying, but IMO they dont deserve any loyalties. If anyone, it`s coders/designers/artists/writers that should get them. Sure good VA is very nice to have but they are just reading lines that someone else wrote for someone else`s project.

This is all Vin Diesel’s fault!!!!! His gigantic contract and power grab from Groot has emboldened other voice actors, we will need a sacrifice to bring balance – BRING ME RIDkitten!!!

Ha! RIDkitten.

Behellagh.1468:

Ha! RIDkitten.

Definitely left it in cause it looks brilliant xD

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

They do share in the success of the project. They get invited back to do more work,

That is not sharing in the success of the project. That is building a reputation strong enough to get asked back for more work.

Sharing in the success of a project means getting renumerated for that project, not for future (theoretical) projects.

Did anybody bother to read what they want?

http://www.sagaftra.org/interactive/what-we-stand-for

Is GW2 development budget getting overblown by voice actors? I don’t mind voiceless dialogue, I can still read and I’ve played alot of old school RPGs. I’d rather have then hire more programmers than spending too much money on something passing, something we will only use for a few seconds. I don’t think so though, but it’s something to be reconsidered if they are hiring “top voice actors”.

Celestina.2894:

https://youtu.be/XwfhSrjyrbU?t=3m47s For the people acting like VA can’t make or break a scene.

We’re not saying it cannot. We are saying it’s not as important a factor as it would be in an actual movie. I click “skip” several dozen times per day so i’m not exactly bothered by how the VA is in the cutscenes i skip.

kolompi.1287:

Celestina.2894:

https://youtu.be/XwfhSrjyrbU?t=3m47s For the people acting like VA can’t make or break a scene.

We’re not saying it cannot. We are saying it’s not as important a factor as it would be in an actual movie. I click “skip” several dozen times per day so i’m not exactly bothered by how the VA is in the cutscenes i skip.

You know I use the German VA and not the American English one, so i can not talk about what the Americans do with their voices, but I really like to hear the characters talk (except human female PC voice…she sounds like a grandma, thew voice doesn fit the design and age of the PC in my opinion) . I don’t mind written dialogue, but it most of the voices are kind of cool.
People that do a good job should be paid fairly for what they do and it is totally okay for them to get their share of the cake, when the game turns out to be very succsesful. I think it is not something unreasonable to ask for.

(the OT thing about movie dubs…it depends. In Germany a lot of movies get dubbed and we have a relatively good industry for these dubs. Not all are better than the original, but some are. the VA of Mushu in Disney’s Mulan is for example is better than the American voice and Elisabeth Volkman as Marge Simpson was lengendary. A lot of the dialogue in Anime gets fit into the American culture in translation, which is depending on the story and context, can be cool, sad or even insulting. The American dub of Hetalia is a good example for that. Every character has such a strong pseudo accent except the American Character, that has perfectly understandable accent. Making fun of other nationalities while tiptoeing around your own isn’t nice, when you want to sell the project internationally. Plus the American dub making fun of German past in a cringeworthy way, makes it even more unlikely that we’ll be able to buy a German version at some point.)

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Sharing in the success of a project means getting renumerated for that project, not for future (theoretical) projects.

I am fairly sure that each and every voice actor is being paid for their work.

I wonder how people would feel about having their rent or mortgage increased because the carpenters want royalties for the work they did during construction. Your computer ? Someone wants royalties for the work they did in the factory last year. Food prices skyrocket because farmers want royalties for their produce. Every product on the market gets its price increased because the truck drivers want to receive ongoing royalties for every item they deliver.

Just plain weird IMO.

The basic idea of doing a job and expecting to continue to be paid for it, essentially forever, after you have stopped working is a bit odd to me.

How many of the rest of us have jobs where we will continue to be paid forever for a few days of work we do now ?

Ashen.2907:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Sharing in the success of a project means getting renumerated for that project, not for future (theoretical) projects.

I am fairly sure that each and every voice actor is being paid for their work.

The question raised isn’t whether they are getting paid or not, it’s whether the amount represents a fair price, given the importance of voice acting to games. TV writers didn’t strike a few years back because they weren’t getting paid, they struck because (in their opinion), they weren’t being compensated fairly compared to how much money the producers were raking in.

In any case, you left out the context to which I was responding:

They do share in the success of the project. They get invited back to do more work,

Again, being invited back isn’t “sharing in the success.” Being invited back is a new job, for which they will also get paid; it’s theoretical future work and has nothing to do with whether they are being fairly compensated for the success of the current project.

I understand how you might disagree with the specific terms. What I don’t understand is why you think it’s unreasonable for voice actors to ask for a raise.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Ashen.2907:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Sharing in the success of a project means getting renumerated for that project, not for future (theoretical) projects.

I am fairly sure that each and every voice actor is being paid for their work.

The question raised isn’t whether they are getting paid or not, it’s whether the amount represents a fair price, given the importance of voice acting to games. TV writers didn’t strike a few years back because they weren’t getting paid, they struck because (in their opinion), they weren’t being compensated fairly compared to how much money the producers were raking in.

In any case, you left out the context to which I was responding:

They do share in the success of the project. They get invited back to do more work,

Again, being invited back isn’t “sharing in the success.” Being invited back is a new job, for which they will also get paid; it’s theoretical future work and has nothing to do with whether they are being fairly compensated for the success of the current project.

I understand how you might disagree with the specific terms. What I don’t understand is why you think it’s unreasonable for voice actors to ask for a raise.

Right.

You said that sharing in the success of the project means getting renumerated for that project.

I pointed out that they are being renumerated for the projects they work on, and so are sharing in the successes of the projects.

Similar thing happened to voice acting industry a while back in my country. Dark times. Always caused by someone being too greedy.

Agemnon.4608:

DragonflyDusk.6582:

I personally love my female sylvari engineer’s voice, so I hope it doesn’t hurt any future voice recordings.

Buy Some Apples.6390:

You just have to compare American voice actors to Japanese voice actor to realise that many American voice actors are terrible!

I refuse to watch anime dubs, firstly due to the obvious americanisation of the original animes’ dialogue, and second american voice actors have no feeling, or emotion when they do their lines.
With Japanese voice actors, you can tell they are putting in the effort to make the character seem real. American voice actors are just drone people reading off a script. Just no love for the work they are doing.

Do forget a strike, they need a pay cut!

Just gonna leave that there for you.

GetOverIt.

The problem for me at least isn’t a simple translation but changing entire episodes, references, and even relationships (like the infamous Sailor Uranus and Sailor Neptune change.) In Japanese Dragon kitten there’s blood, alcohol, and other things that get edited out in the American version. I watched a Japanese version of Dragon kitten and felt so cheated by the (official) dubbers.

This is off topic, but I’ll just chime in real quick…

What you are pointing out isn’t so much as the fault of the dubbers’, as it is the culture at that point in time. Lets face it, if the Sailor Uranus and Neptune weren’t changed, that show would’ve been canceled the same day. It just wasn’t socially accepted at the time.

The same thing with DBZ and DB, etc. They had to be changed to abide by laws in place. If not, the show doesn’t get to air. Which would you rather have happen?

On topic:

Going by the article linked above:

• Vocal Stress - I can agree to this “two hour session” idea, but there is one problem; what constitutes “vocally stressful”? Yelling a lot? a deep raspy voice? This can vary from actor to actor, so a good clear definition needs to be set.

• Stunt Coordinator - honestly, the story given here is just based on human stupidity. Its like someone went to lift weights without a spotter, and got hurt. You just don’t do that. In all honesty, if you are going to want the voice actors to perform stunts, with a stunt coordinator, then why not just hire a stunt man and the voice actor just…voices? (could be misunderstanding this though)

• Transparency - Yeah, sure. They get to know the real name of the project instead of the code. I have no problem with this, and yes, you want to know what you are getting into instead of just waltzing in. They are also asking for reasonable ideas for sessions, the problem can come though, with beta testing (like in MMOs), where if a line doesnt go right, or something in lore changes, another session may be involved. So, it should be forgiving if the company says 4, and it ends up being six, or a call back to redo a line.

• Performance Bonuses - saved this for last on purpose. If you are comparing a programmer to an actor, you’re doing it wrong most of the time. Yes, there are contracted programmers who come in, do a job, then cut loose after launch, which is sad. But others stay on and continue working on the game, or other games from the company. Same thing for voice actors, in that they fulfill their contract, then basically cut loose, even movie actors deal with this when finding work. They need to find someone to take them, if not, they aren’t earning money.

So, this part…yeah I agree with, in looking back at how games are now not only being a gameplay entertainment, but also the story aspect as well, when VA is involved. I mean, yeah, I can look at some games without VA and say how they are a good game, but when VA is involved, the characters just seem more alive and I get to know them better. Just like movies going from silent to talking. It just starts to become more popular.

Now what needs to be really looked at are the numbers. If I am understanding it correctly from whats posted, if the game sells 2 million, the VA gets an additional $3300 from the company. This is where the negotiating is really going to go on at. It could change to 3 million and a lower pay, or it could stay where it is, but some of that money from the bonus goes to pay for the stunt guy they wanted. Or, they could get the full amount, but they agree to X number of re-recording sessions if needed for that game (such as an MMO).

Behellagh.1468:

Did anybody bother to read what they want?

http://www.sagaftra.org/interactive/what-we-stand-for

Can we clarify whether the $3300 bonus is for the 8 million copies milestone, or for each 2 million milestone?

Either way, it’s not terrible to be paid an extra $3300 if 8 million units are sold. Although I do wonder, $3300 sounds like the monthly wage of some employees in the studio. Are they getting bonuses as well?

I think the demands are being blown out of proportion.

With that said, I am bothered by the idea that people like Jennifer Hale and Nolan North, which are already raking in the money, would be getting some more money on top of what they already demand.

Zenith.7301:

Behellagh.1468:

Did anybody bother to read what they want?

http://www.sagaftra.org/interactive/what-we-stand-for

Can we clarify whether the $3300 bonus is for the 8 million copies milestone, or for each 2 million milestone?

Either way, it’s not terrible to be paid an extra $3300 if 8 million units are sold. Although I do wonder, $3300 sounds like the monthly wage of some employees in the studio. Are they getting bonuses as well?

I think the demands are being blown out of proportion.

With that said, I am bothered by the idea that people like Jennifer Hale and Nolan North, which are already raking in the money, would be getting some more money on top of what they already demand.

I think its every 2 million, they get the bonus (2, 4, 6, 8 capped). But again, this can have other implications, such as games going on sale (steam sales anyone?), indie game devs that may sell a game for $5 – $15 could be hit a bit harder with the payment as well (if they manage to afford someone from this in the first place though), which again, we would have to know the gaming companies expenses, and so on to really be able to draw a conclusion on the exact numbers.

But this isn’t affecting just the Jennifer Hales and Nolan Norths but the lesser known VAs.

As for vocal stress, that’s one of the reasons that it takes a small miracle and a pile of money to get Mark Hamill to do the Joker in games. It destroyed his voice doing it for the animated Batman series for all those years. Peter Cullen doing Optimus is another case. They are looking for the same guarantees and protections they get for VA in shows for VA in games.

And yes, it’s common for the VA to also do the mocap if mocap is required. Asking for a stunt coordinator to oversee a mocap session to look out for the actor isn’t outrageous.

Aye.8392:

To say that voice actors don’t make a difference to the quality of the title is nuts. Did you guys play GW1 Factions? The voice acting was awful, and it definitely impacted the game. Voice actors deserve to be reasonably paid. Games that sell 2mil copies can afford it.

What? Factions had awesome voice work (at least the German Version). We had Shredder from the 90s Turtles Cartoon as Shiro and Arthur Spooner as the Oracle of the Mists. The GW2 Shiro feels meh because it is another voice actor and Shredder fitted Shiro perfectly.

I played GW1 factions, the game was not impacted by the voice acting.

BrotherBelial.3094:

paintpixie.7398:

People are always doing things that amuse me. Hehe.

Anyway, I’m sure the strike will end soon enough, they will probably be paid more money for sitting in their underwear and reading lines. Maybe the savings will even be passed down to us, and we will have to pay their “royalties”. Who knows?

But I do know…that I wouldn’t put up with it. There are billions of people in the world with voices, and it isn’t even as hard to voice-act as it is to “act”. If I was a company that needed voice actors, I would just hold an open audition and hire people who actually wanted the work.

But the world is a silly place.

I wouldn’t say voice acting is easier. You have to sell the whole emotional side of things just with your voice.

Tell that to the female norn voice actress. Her warrior and guardian shouts have no emotion whatsoever.

There are plenty of health risks that warrant a strike. But the idea that they need to sell emotion is not one of them.

Buy Some Apples.6390:

You just have to compare American voice actors to Japanese voice actor to realise that many American voice actors are terrible!

I refuse to watch anime dubs, firstly due to the obvious americanisation of the original animes’ dialogue, and second american voice actors have no feeling, or emotion when they do their lines.
With Japanese voice actors, you can tell they are putting in the effort to make the character seem real. American voice actors are just drone people reading off a script. Just no love for the work they are doing.

Do forget a strike, they need a pay cut!

Weeaboo checklist!

• Brought up anime in a conversation not at all related to anime
• Claims “Japan thing is better, American thing sucks” rather than discussing individual titles, producers, or artists"
• Inserts “Americans are lazy, Japanese people are awesome!”

Yep. Checks out.

Now, I’m going to reply to this as if it’s not a waste of time and you’re not sitting around in kawaii desu cat ears, listening to jpop, and claiming that just because it’s all from japan that it’s automatically better than all the things from everywhere else ever!

See, in most cases anime dub voice actors are kitten because the company in charge of the dubbing is cheap. The english VO is for a secondary market.

In stead, compare Japanese works in their native Japanese with American works in their native English.

Then go find the Japanese dub of the same movie or show and tell me it’s “better” In virtually all cases, re-dubbing in a new language for a secondary market is done with less of an eye for quality. To do so you’ll need to be fluent in both languages, obviously. I’m assuming you are.

Japan makes about the same ratio of amazing to complete crap as everywhere else in the world. Some of it is good, and some of it is horrible. There are plenty of bad actors no matter where you go in the world.

Behellagh.1468:

But this isn’t affecting just the Jennifer Hales and Nolan Norths but the lesser known VAs.

As for vocal stress, that’s one of the reasons that it takes a small miracle and a pile of money to get Mark Hamill to do the Joker in games. It destroyed his voice doing it for the animated Batman series for all those years. Peter Cullen doing Optimus is another case. They are looking for the same guarantees and protections they get for VA in shows for VA in games.

And yes, it’s common for the VA to also do the mocap if mocap is required. Asking for a stunt coordinator to oversee a mocap session to look out for the actor isn’t outrageous.

Which is why I would prefer the royalties section only apply up to a salary cap, say $60-70k a year, to cover for the start up and struggling actors who are trying to make it into the industry.

But when you’re earning $100k+ I start questioning the necessity of “MOAR!” and my sympathy drops.

I’m quite surprised that the voice talents don’t get royalties from the publisher, considering Anet sales that have been one of the top based on NCSoft reports in the last two years, even the publisher quiet confident for this year.

I think the absence of residuals payments in this industry is because the lack of unions representation. Companies in general might be too comfortable enjoying naive labor forces with minimal bargaining experience (I’m not only talking these well-paid and experienced voice actors, but those who are new in the industries. I’m probably even talking about game creators, too). It is good that SAG-AFTRA has spoken out about this matter and look after the welfare of its members for this particular industries.

I mean, it doesn’t matter wheter the actors earned $500k for example, if the publisher and developer received $750m the money flow will only be skewed to them. And understand that voice acting is also seasonal job, if you are paid with that one-time payment, considering after the total sales and surely it will generate more money after that, it seems to me that your job is undervalued and you have no sustainable income. Again that is a very extreme example. But what I’m trying to say is that the union tries to avoid such skeweness with that every-2-million-copies cap, and because overall voice talent is so intangible the value ($$$) cannot be accurately reflected but by the sales of the copy itself. because when company gains so much like that, VA and creators who are involved and do not received residuals seem to be externalized.

So, guys, don’t use the word greedy because it’s not even accurate to describe this matter in any way. The lack of residual payments does raise some potentially serious ethical question to me. That is why they want more transparency too so they can actually see the internal report of the company, thus they can negotiate reasonably and to avoid any potential exploitation by companies. They don’t just throw random numbers (but of course they will throw numbers that are most profiting, which is probably what considered as ‘greedy’). And just to say that I don’t think creators such as designers deserve the less, and I hope there will be a union for this group. And, in any case, when these people are entitled for residuals, there might also be different proportion, but I don’t really know much about this.

Of course I believe Anet is highly ethical and always trying to fulfill its social responsibility, and I hope, with NCSoft, they will be addressing and actively involved in overcoming this matter in the future and come out with innovative measures about this.

ErickDntn.1847:

So, guys, don’t use the word greedy because it’s not even accurate to describe this matter in any way.

I agree with most of what you said, although I disagree with this to a point. Greed is exactly what it is. But it’s greed on all fronts.

The voice actors are acting on greed. They haven’t suddenly done more work just because something they had a part in became successful. They still did the same amount of work that they were contracted to do. Wanting more, after the fact, based on how successful something ends up being is greed, purely defined. Unless of course, they are willing to go back on their contract and take a cut if something flops as well.

The corporations are also acting on greed, however, eating up all the millions and billions like a bunch of fat pigs, and giving those who did the work nothing in comparison.

It’s greed all around. Nothing is inherently wrong with that, all humans act on greed automatically. It’s part of our nature. However, we should at least call it what it is. It is a far cry from other words like: contentment, fulfilled, satisfaction, etc, for example. And it isn’t as though they weren’t payed for their work. They were payed. But now that they see the companies are making more, they want a piece of that too. It’s as simple as that.

Whether their “greed” is reasonable, is another matter entirely.
Whether they “deserve” to have royalties, depends on who you ask, and depends on the particular situation, and many other factors.

But I think the more important issue that seems to have emerged here…is actually that developers are under payed, and under appreciated. And I think that’s a far larger shame.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

They do share in the success of the project. They get invited back to do more work,

That is not sharing in the success of the project. That is building a reputation strong enough to get asked back for more work.

Sharing in the success of a project means getting renumerated for that project, not for future (theoretical) projects.

So, you’re essentially saying if they do kitten work, and the project does well, regardless of whether they would be asked back to do further work, they should still get additional payments. That’s a rather asinine approach to the issue at hand. That boils it down to “it doesn’t matter if I do my job well, if they do well, I’m going to cash in anyway”

paintpixie.7398:

ErickDntn.1847:

So, guys, don’t use the word greedy because it’s not even accurate to describe this matter in any way.

just gonna snip it XD

Agree in general/broad concept of the word.

Although, if you allow me further explain my view on this, the fundamental responsibility for every entity in commerce is their economics responsibility. This is why greed is very subjective, since profit is the main goal for everyone in the game and greed is not something that can be reliably measured (since the limit cannot be defined accurately by different individuals). Money is the motivation, the incentive, to take risk in starting the business. And as you might know, reasonable people play at higher risk for higher rewards.

Nonetheless, using ethical measure, this ‘greed’ (which I consider as the worst form of management outcome and bad ethics) by a company or entity can be identified by how companies identify needs and importance of their stakeholders, voice actors in this very particular case, and how these different entities resolve their problem.

As I said, voice talent is very intangible, actors don’t know what is the value of their voice act until you see it perform in the market, because at this point revenue is the only reliable measurement I can think of. If at the end the video game which has their voice, especially if their voice act is one of the leading voice act/with major involvement in the recording, and they are paid really low in term of the ratio to the revenue, in my logic, that means they are undervalued (emphasize that I use revenue to measure the voice act), Then, although it is self-interested, it does not make one automatically considered as greed (it might make one, but not necessarily).

And whether the developers are under payed or not, that is something we cannot see (although factually among a number of games in NCSoft financial report between 2012 and 2013, GW2 has the second best rank in term of sales), that’s why one of SAG-AFTRA requests in their proposal is transparency, which I assume every bargaining process will require internal report (which basically contains the cost of sale and all of those stuff to determine pricing scheme) so the deal will internalize as many factor as they can. So they know how actually the game perform after the sales accur.

Off topic:
If you think it through, greed sort of come to an effect when a one-sided decision is made, and believe me, it is very not sustainable (why global financial crisis happened, for example). Not many corporations nowadays can survive by exploiting (except if the products are highly addictive or many people need it, such as medicine, but there is why regulation is there), especially when people's awareness of other's welfare is high, and also the presence of such unions. So, many corporations actually act very arbitrary, beyond their legal and even ethical responsibility, which known with their philanthropic contribution

Wil had some good thoughts on it.

ErickDntn.1847:

paintpixie.7398:

ErickDntn.1847:

So, guys, don’t use the word greedy because it’s not even accurate to describe this matter in any way.

I agree with most of what you said, although I disagree with this to a point. Greed is exactly what it is. But it’s greed on all fronts.

The voice actors are acting on greed. They haven’t suddenly done more work just because something they had a part in became successful. They still did the same amount of work that they were contracted to do. Wanting more, after the fact, based on how successful something ends up being is greed, purely defined. Unless of course, they are willing to go back on their contract and take a cut if something flops as well.

The corporations are also acting on greed, however, eating up all the millions and billions like a bunch of fat pigs, and giving those who did the work nothing in comparison.

It’s greed all around. Nothing is inherently wrong with that, all humans act on greed automatically. It’s part of our nature. However, we should at least call it what it is. It is a far cry from other words like: contentment, fulfilled, satisfaction, etc, for example. And it isn’t as though they weren’t payed for their work. They were payed. But now that they see the companies are making more, they want a piece of that too. It’s as simple as that.

Agree in general/broad concept of the word.

Although, if you allow me further explain my view on this, the fundamental responsibility for every entity in commerce is their economics responsibility. This is why greed is very subjective, since profit is the main goal for everyone in the game and greed is not something that can be reliably measured (since the limit cannot be defined accurately by different individuals). Money is the motivation, the incentive, to take risk in starting the business. And as you might know, reasonable people play at higher risk for higher rewards.

Nonetheless, using ethical measure, this ‘greed’ (which I consider as the worst form of management outcome and bad ethics) by a company or entity can be identified by how companies identify needs and importance of their stakeholders, voice actors in this very particular case, and how these different entities resolve their problem.

As I said, voice talent is very intangible, actors don’t know what is the value of their voice act until you see it perform in the market, because at this point revenue is the only reliable measurement I can think of. If at the end the video game which has their voice, especially if their voice act is one of the leading voice act/with major involvement in the recording, and they are paid really low in term of the ratio to the revenue, in my logic, that means they are undervalued (emphasize that I use revenue to measure the voice act), Then, although it is self-interested, it does not make one automatically considered as greed (it might make one, but not necessarily).

Off topic:
If you think it through, greed sort of come to an effect when a one-sided decision is made, and believe me, it is very not sustainable (why global financial crisis happened, for example). Not many corporations nowadays can survive by exploiting (except if the products are highly addictive or many people need it, such as medicine, but there is why regulation is there), especially when people's awareness of other's welfare is high, and also the presence of such unions. So, many corporations actually act very arbitrary, beyond their legal and even ethical responsibility, which known with their philanthropic contribution

I see what you’re saying, and I can definitely agree with that.

I especially like the part where you said “voice talent is very intangible, actors don’t know what is the value of their voice act until you see it perform in the market”
That’s a very large truth, in any artistic career, and a very good point.

Ashen.2907:

I pointed out that they are being renumerated for the projects they work on, and so are sharing in the successes of the projects.

Again, that’s factually incorrect. The are paid for the project; they don’t get to share in the windfalls for successful games. It’s standard for film/tv stars, writers, show runners, and any number of other people to include contract elements that provide additional earnings based on how well their projects do. Why is it so hard to understand that Voice Actors feel that they, too, should get to enjoy the fruits of success?

Lets see if I can be clearer. A lot of VA do work both on animated series and games. On animated series they are getting additional payments from syndication and DVD/Blu-Ray sales if the series is successful. They get hazard pay for doing difficult voices and get breaks when they are recording for an animated series.

They simply want the same protections and additional income from a game’s success. They want the same protections for mo-cap that actors get for TV and movies.