Why Karma Nerf ???

Why Karma Nerf ???

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Posted by: Dutchdevil.6902

Dutchdevil.6902

ANET,

For newbies and for people that need karma for legendaries it’s become a pain to gain karma.
Can you tell me why you nerfed it this bad?

I have a specific way of playing this game, I run dungeons and sometimes some world events. So for me there is not much karma to gain. Why you nerfed karma in dungeons? Now I am forced to play other things like events. But why say play the game where you want how you want?? That is off the table as I am forced to leave or play less my dungeons!

I had a long conversation with the helpdesk and they directed me to this forum.

I doubt ANET will read it but I post it anyway as this is the first major thing that bothers me and I start to dislike the game!

After 1500 hours I like a legendary weapon. And yes I play on my own pace this game!

It would suprise me if something will change!

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Posted by: mercury ranique.2170

mercury ranique.2170

‘But why say play the game where you want how you want??’

Nobody is forcing you to do different. If you play World events you get access to certain named weapon drops like e.g. genesis.
If you play dungeon you get tokens and specific dungeon gear.
If you play WvW you get different tokens that can be spent on WvW rewards.

So each kind of gameplay has a good amount off rewards unique to that activity.
The legendary means you need to master all elements off the game. Not just being good at dungeons. Farming path 1 CoF as a zerker warrior and pressing 1 isn’t a challenge. it is time consuming and shouldn’t mean you get a legendary (using CoF as an extreme example).

There are plenty very viable ways off gaining karma. So if you want to get a legendary, explore those ways.

Arise, ye farmers of all nations
Arise, opressed of Tyria!

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Posted by: Ethics.4519

Ethics.4519

You can still do exactly what you were doing.

You want a legendary, therefore your own wants are requiring you to change the way you play. Nobody is forcing anything on you.

If you like dungeons doing fotm. Doing fotm levels under yours gives a lot of karma.

6400 + 8*x(y-x)=Karma where y is your personal reward level and x is the fotm level you’re doing.

RIP in peace Robert

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Posted by: Solid Gold.9310

Solid Gold.9310

The Karma nerf was quite drastic, don’t really know why they felt the need to nerf it that much.

It IS hard for players to accumulate Karma now, it takes a long time to gain enough to get what you want.

Some of the longer players managed to gain 3-4 million Karma before the nerf, but I do feel for newer players as it’s now hard work and a lot of grinding.

Jumping puzzles, love them or hate them, I hate them. Thread killer.

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Posted by: TooBz.3065

TooBz.3065

It makes you work harder and prolongs the grind. As long as your chasing carrots you are logged into the game.

Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.

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Posted by: Fror.2163

Fror.2163

You don’t need karma for your legendary weapon. You can also buy you obsidian shards with fractal tokens (15 each) or laurels (3 for 3).

So technically the best way to get those shards is to play 28, 38 and 48 fractals with a high personal reward level. You’ll get tons of tokens and some nice karma. I guess it’kittenting two birds with one stone. And oh!! Fractals are dungeons! Isn’t that good?

Also, they said that you may play the way you wanna play. They never said you’d get all possible rewards to play the way you wanna play. Don’t be self-entitled!

Frór (yes, with the accent!)

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Posted by: Qawsada.4251

Qawsada.4251

Can you tell me why you nerfed it this bad?

I recall prior to the update, people in this PARTICULAR forum were complaining that they have too much karma and that karma is everywhere. They also complain that they do not know what to spend with the karma.

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Posted by: Romo.3709

Romo.3709

I have a specific way of playing this game, I run dungeons and sometimes some world events. So for me there is not much karma to gain. Why you nerfed karma in dungeons? Now I am forced to play other things like events. But why say play the game where you want how you want?? That is off the table as I am forced to leave or play less my dungeons!

You had a good argument, up to this point, which turned the forum around putting this post into a debate about how you play the game.

Let’s stay on topic people, so the devs actually do something about Karma. In the past we had tons of Karma coming our way. With the new system introduced in the begining we were told that the Karma Jugs will not be affected by boosters or banners anymore, but they will increase the amount of karma coming out of jugs and such so it more or less evens it out. Tey went back on that word a few weeks later where the karma gained from dailies and such was nerfer to as high as 90%, which is ridiculus amount. Getting a full Karma gear takes 8-9 times longer than what it used to. Cultural weapons lost their appeal beacuse of the karma cost.

I understand there are other alternative ways to gain karma such as fractals and so on. But having 3 characters in upper level 40s fractals, I really don’t feel like doing a lower level fractal just for karma itself.

I’m really hoping this post won’t get turned off because of the structure of the topic the OP decided to go with… The thing is that we all would like karma to come back the way it was, even if you can meet us half way, now that it’s actually worth something.

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Posted by: Romo.3709

Romo.3709

And oh!! Fractals are dungeons! Isn’t that good?

They’re not… I’m sad to admit it, but fractals are nothing like dungeons in matter of rewards you receive for running it. I mean given it is 3-4 “mini” (and “mini” being a stretch by a loooong run) dungeons in a row that upon completion of each u get a chest with some fractal relics and greens and blues, maybe rare or exotic if you’re really lucky. But in the long run, the relics are useless after a while, having made 4 shiny backpieces and still having well over 5000 relics in my wallet, I see no value in them anymore.
Understandably I can spend them on shards, but atm I don’t need that many anyways. There is really no actual way of making gold from fractals other than hoping to get those rng based drops.
Dungeons are a whole different breed. You can get a full exotic armor, weapons, and everything guaranteed with no RNG, just because you get tokens. You can use the tokens to buy rares and salvage them for ectos. And the best part? After every dungeon path you run you get rewarded with GOLD. THAT is what fractals are missing. A reward system that is worthwile.

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Posted by: RyuDragnier.9476

RyuDragnier.9476

Can you tell me why you nerfed it this bad?

I recall prior to the update, people in this PARTICULAR forum were complaining that they have too much karma and that karma is everywhere. They also complain that they do not know what to spend with the karma.

Then wouldn’t it have made more sense to make it so you could buy T6 mats with it, but with a hefty karma cost attached? For example, you could get a full stack of 250 Vials of Powerful Blood…for 500K karma. There, people wouldn’t complain that they have too much karma. They’d be complaining because they didn’t have enough.

[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald

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Posted by: Romo.3709

Romo.3709

Can you tell me why you nerfed it this bad?

I recall prior to the update, people in this PARTICULAR forum were complaining that they have too much karma and that karma is everywhere. They also complain that they do not know what to spend with the karma.

Then wouldn’t it have made more sense to make it so you could buy T6 mats with it, but with a hefty karma cost attached? For example, you could get a full stack of 250 Vials of Powerful Blood…for 500K karma. There, people wouldn’t complain that they have too much karma. They’d be complaining because they didn’t have enough.

Yeah it was all based on the fact that Karma was useless. Now that they gave it a purpose in crafting and such, it became actually worth something. I don’t think anyone would mind it at this point.

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Posted by: angelpaladin.7921

angelpaladin.7921

I agree with the op and Anet as a company is going in a bad direction. They infracted the op for what exactly? The only thing I could think of is because he used the word nerf but hopefully where all adults here (anet included) and we can use words like that.

As far as the state of the game goes there Hemorrhaging people almost as fast as blizzard. Which is extremely sad.

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Posted by: ZudetGambeous.9573

ZudetGambeous.9573

Just as a note karma wasn’t really nerfed, it is still much higher than it was at release. Sure it was brought down from the unholy levels of karma rain that it was before, but I just built back up 500k of the stuff after spending the last million I accumulated and spent.

Legendary weapons do take some work, but you don’t even need karma anymore for a legendary due to the free obsidian shards that are thrown at you for pretty much everything.

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Posted by: Qawsada.4251

Qawsada.4251

Then wouldn’t it have made more sense to make it so you could buy T6 mats with it, but with a hefty karma cost attached? For example, you could get a full stack of 250 Vials of Powerful Blood…for 500K karma. There, people wouldn’t complain that they have too much karma. They’d be complaining because they didn’t have enough.

Just use the karma to buy the Orr Treasure Box for those junk or buy 4 karma item and mystic forge that. Use the money to buy the material. I am sad to see that many people fail to see that.

Yeah it was all based on the fact that Karma was useless.

It was never useless to begin with and its more that people aren’t inform as to what they could do with the karma to make a quick penny. Sadly, this kind of mentailly is the reason why we might not see an increase in karma rewards from now on.

Just as a note karma wasn’t really nerfed, it is still much higher than it was at release. Sure it was brought down from the unholy levels of karma rain that it was before, but I just built back up 500k of the stuff after spending the last million I accumulated and spent.

Legendary weapons do take some work, but you don’t even need karma anymore for a legendary due to the free obsidian shards that are thrown at you for pretty much everything.

It doesn’t have to be that way and they could at least left the karma reward after finishing a dungeon. Hell, they added that reward at the end of the dungeon because people were complaining that it takes too long to get a large amount of karma to begin with.

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Posted by: Romo.3709

Romo.3709

Yeah it was all based on the fact that Karma was useless.

It was never useless to begin with and its more that people aren’t inform as to what they could do with the karma to make a quick penny. Sadly, this kind of mentailly is the reason why we might not see an increase in karma rewards from now on.

It was useless because of vast amount of it we had after we spent it on exotic gears and such. That’s why the Orian boxes were introduced. Now that Karma is used for many different other purposes, they nerfed it. It is way more useful than it was before. That’s why the nerf was an ill timing.

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Posted by: eisberg.2379

eisberg.2379

They said Karma was nerfed to balance out the added account wide magic find and how magic find is obtained. But I do agree that the karma nerf was to heavy

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Posted by: Romo.3709

Romo.3709

They said Karma was nerfed to balance out the added account wide magic find and how magic find is obtained. But I do agree that the karma nerf was to heavy

I don’t see how Karma was affecting Magic Find to begin with. I would like them to at least meet us half way.

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Posted by: Qawsada.4251

Qawsada.4251

It was useless because of vast amount of it we had after we spent it on exotic gears and such. That’s why the Orian boxes were introduced.

You could use the karma to buy 4 items and mystic forge it for a sellable item. Hell, you could get plenty of rares doing this. This was before they added the Boxes.

Now that Karma is used for many different other purposes, they nerfed it. It is way more useful than it was before. That’s why the nerf was an ill timing.

No, it means that the nerf wasn’t needed to begin with and the reason for the nerf is because people were complaining about having too much of it and not know what to do with it, despite the fact that you could make money off of it or use it to dress up an alt with those temple exotic. Karma were already useful prior to the nerf and that kind of mentally doesn’t justified it in being nerf or making it “useful”. Its through this that both new and old players are going to suffer from the rarity of karma.

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Posted by: Romo.3709

Romo.3709

It was useless because of vast amount of it we had after we spent it on exotic gears and such. That’s why the Orian boxes were introduced.

You could use the karma to buy 4 items and mystic forge it for a sellable item. Hell, you could get plenty of rares doing this. This was before they added the Boxes.

That was fixed months ago. If I’d have to shoot for date it’d be like 7-8 months back. Ever since then you couldn’t put Karma armor/weapons into the Mystic Forge to make a sell-able item. And since they took that away, you couldn’t use your Karma as you used to, hence the introduction of Orrian Boxes. You used to be able to salvage Karma items as well, and that was fixed even before MF fix.
The point is that people wanted to use Karma for something more than looks and spending it all on Orrian Boxes hoping to make a quick buck out of it. Now they finally gave it more purpose. Before introducing ascended armor you had following choices (after all the fixes):
-buy food items for crafting
-buy food to eat
-accessories/weapons/armor that you couldn’t do anything with after you were done using them
-Obsidian Shards that were used purely in crafting your legendaries
-some fun items here and there such as color changing, invisibility cloak etc.

I’d still like Karma to be used for something else as well, but at this point I really wouldn’t want them to be used for anything more, because it is much harder to obtain than what it used to be,

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Posted by: Romo.3709

Romo.3709

The point is, just like you said, we didn’t want Karma to be harder to obtain, all we wanted was Karma to be used for more things. But it is hurting new players and it sucks to be new at this point. Even though making gold is soooo much easier these days…

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Posted by: Raine.1394

Raine.1394

Man, am I glad I built up karma before the nerf. I just outfitted my ranger with a wvw set of rabid gear at a cost of ~500k karma or so. It would be impossible to do stuff like that under the current system. In a skill based game it should be easy to get max level gear and the old system allowed this. I really feel sorry for new players as they are the ones feeling the effects of the nerf.

(edited by Raine.1394)

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Posted by: Qawsada.4251

Qawsada.4251

That was fixed months ago. If I’d have to shoot for date it’d be like 7-8 months back. Ever since then you couldn’t put Karma armor/weapons into the Mystic Forge to make a sell-able item. And since they took that away, you couldn’t use your Karma as you used to, hence the introduction of Orrian Boxes. You used to be able to salvage Karma items as well, and that was fixed even before MF fix.,

Oh, I am quite aware about the salvaging part and how so many people were banned during that month. I am also quite aware that the Mystic Forge part came in a bit later, but by then, there is no excuse NOT to use it to get money off of it after you spend all those karmas on ori gathering tools, salvage kits, armor, karma item tools like the stealth kit, and Obby Shards for legendaries, or Clover Money gambling. What I am saying is, there is no excuse to say “BUT I HAVE TOO MANY KARMA!??!?!” You could spend it all and make a few gold prier to the Orrian Treasure Box release.

The point is that people wanted to use Karma for something more than looks and spending it all on Orrian Boxes hoping to make a quick buck out of it

Again, refer to my previous post on how to make money with karma.

Now they finally gave it more purpose. Before introducing ascended armor you had following choices (after all the fixes):
-buy food items for crafting
-buy food to eat
-accessories/weapons/armor that you couldn’t do anything with after you were done using them
-Obsidian Shards that were used purely in crafting your legendaries
-some fun items here and there such as color changing, invisibility cloak etc.,

I’d still like Karma to be used for something else as well, but at this point I really wouldn’t want them to be used for anything more, because it is much harder to obtain than what it used to be,

The purpose is already there and justifying the nerf just to give Karma a purpose that already there to begin with is naive. You could save those karma and what not but from the looks of its, you would do the same if the karma nerf didn’t occur. The nerf was unnecessary and you know this. There were many uses for karma and you know this too.

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Posted by: Meglobob.8620

Meglobob.8620

Why Karma Nerf ???

Because Anet get very, very sad if there is not at least 1 nerf per week to GW2.

They are having a NERF IT NERF IT party on Dec 10th…

Good news we don’t have power creep in GW2…we have power decline instead…enjoy!

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Posted by: Romo.3709

Romo.3709

Yes. I’m glad we’re on the same page. I never understood why people were complaining about having too much of something, especially since it doesn’t take any space at all. Unlke bloodstone dust, but we shoudln’t get into that.
The point is that karma was always useful for many side things just as me and you both mentioned. I was trying to show the point from general public that wasn’t aware of many merchants around Tyria selling many useful and fun things to play with.
Nerfing Karma was “naive” and quite uncalled for. And the whole plead of this post is simply:
Please Bring It Back.

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Posted by: NargofWoV.4267

NargofWoV.4267

My advice to you is just play. I have never Karma farmed, have purchased 3 full sets of Karma gear and have over 1,000,000 Karma that I have no clue how to spend at this point as I am not working toward a legendary.

So <shrugs> Good luck.

Narg, Ranger JQ
Heavy Halo, Warrior JQ

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Posted by: Romo.3709

Romo.3709

There are people that work towards legendaries and people that aren’t. If we didn’t play, we wouldn’t complain about the nerf. 1,000,000 karma is on “ok” number to have after buying only 3 sets. Many people also craft ascended items that require karma as well. The point is that if you’re not complaining about having 1,000,000 karma as too much, then just keep on playing. I could easily give you a list of things you can buy with your karma even if you’re not working towards a legendary nor bothering with crafting ascended items.
The point is if you were a new player that just started and barely got to 80, with the amount of karma you get these days you wouldn’t be able to afford the karma set like you used to anymore to get your 80 started.

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Posted by: Stars.2179

Stars.2179

My advice to you is just play. I have never Karma farmed, have purchased 3 full sets of Karma gear and have over 1,000,000 Karma that I have no clue how to spend at this point as I am not working toward a legendary.

So <shrugs> Good luck.

To fully equip one character with ascended equipment you need
average 3 weapons (30 obi shards per weapon) = 30 × 3 = 90 shards
6 pieces of armor = 30 × 6 = 180 shards
6 customizable stats (with your choice of prefix and suffix, not the laurel) trinkets (30 × 6) = 180 shards

Total : 450 shards / 270 shards (if you just get the berserker trinkets from your pristine fractal relics)

Each shard costs 2100 karma, so you’ll need 567,000 – 945,000 karma per character

If you only have 5 characters, then you’ll need about 2.8 mil to 4.7 mil karma to fully equip your account with all ascended equipment

(edited by Stars.2179)

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Posted by: Stars.2179

Stars.2179

Now, to be fair with the calculation, let me analyze the some method of obtaining them.
Doing daily and monthly will net you: 600 × 365 + 6000 × 12 = 291,000 karma per year.

If you do champ train to get monthly, 100 events x 200 karma x 12 months = 240,000 karma per year

Totaling about 531,000 karma per year = 252 shards

Total obi shards need is 1350 – 2250 shards. Each year you also earn 365+120 = 485 laurels if you do all the daily and monthly.

Each shard is one laurel so you can earn about 252+485 = 736 shards a year only doing monthly and daily and events.

Now, if you also do fractal (and let’s assume that you only do fractal level 20), you’ll earn 63 relics a day (assuming 1 run only). 84 × 365 = 30,660 relics. It costs 15 relics per shard, so with 30,660 relics = 2044 shards.

736+2044 = 2780 shards, well over the necessary amount to of obi shards for your entire account of ascended equipment.

Oh I forgot about the rest of the OTHER materials…

(edited by Stars.2179)

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Posted by: quaniesan.8497

quaniesan.8497

trust me… for legendary, karma is the least of your worry.

If ya no longer see me after this post,
it means THEY got me for " neg criticism in clever disguise".
Know that it has been fun and I love ya all.

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Posted by: Alukah.2063

Alukah.2063

I started playing a bit over a month ago and I have 620k karma leftover after buying a PVT set and getting obsidians for ascended (i actually got 2x more than what I needed, “just in case”).

I honestly can’t relate to karma being hard to get, when almost anything gives you karma.

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Posted by: CntrlAltDefeat.1465

CntrlAltDefeat.1465

Cursed shore group event karma reward=200ish. Starter area event completion=190ish. WvW castle zerg=6kish. This is the issue with me. If i desire karma there is no reason for me to hunt it. Either queensdale camp run or speed run starter area’s and join a large zerg when able in wvw. Doing dungeons is pointless if you need karma. Doing end game group events is pointless as it yields no more than starter area’s. Doing fractals requires me to play beneath my actual reward level. The karma reward doesn’t encourage players to continue upwards towards higher levels, end game events or dip into dungeons. The use of karma boosters is helpful, but many events are time gated so much of the booster is idle while in effect. For me having a precursor and many of the gifts at hand, and only needing substantial more karma equates out that i’m losing interest in making it now because it deters too much from game aspects i’d rather be playing. I now only pvp to get my daily and leave because there is no karma there for me to obtain.

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Posted by: Omne.4603

Omne.4603

ANET,

For newbies and for people that need karma for legendaries it’s become a pain to gain karma.
Can you tell me why you nerfed it this bad?

I have a specific way of playing this game, I run dungeons and sometimes some world events. So for me there is not much karma to gain. Why you nerfed karma in dungeons? Now I am forced to play other things like events. But why say play the game where you want how you want?? That is off the table as I am forced to leave or play less my dungeons!

I had a long conversation with the helpdesk and they directed me to this forum.

I doubt ANET will read it but I post it anyway as this is the first major thing that bothers me and I start to dislike the game!

After 1500 hours I like a legendary weapon. And yes I play on my own pace this game!

It would suprise me if something will change!

The level of entitlement in this post.

I Cant Stop/ Ocularis
NSP | Os Guild Master
www.osguild.org | www.youtube.com/osthink

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Posted by: Alagondar.3492

Alagondar.3492

Karma nerf is just insane now. I agree that something must be done in order to fix this.