Guild Wars 2

I told someone that GW2 kept my interest for about 5 years shorter than I expected, and they said:

It’s not that type of game.

Implying that GW2, favoring a more casual type of gamer, was basically designed with the intention of it being played less than other “gear-treadmill, grinding” MMORPGs.

If this is the case, I’ll stop trying to find ways to re-ignite my enjoyment that I once had for the game and move on.

Hahahahahahah. I would have loved to watch you play ONLY Vanilla-WoW for 5 years straight.

I’d say it’s more a game you can pick up as and when you want to with no pressure of keeping up with anyone to access content.

TSLlol.4879:

Hahahahahahah. I would have loved to watch you play ONLY Vanilla-WoW for 5 years straight.

That’s a slightly creepy comment, but yeah I played WoW for 5 years straight because the content and end-game progression they had in place was enough to keep me interested until they released new major content.

GW2 dropped off for me pretty quickly after hitting max level.

I played WoW for 1.5 years, and no other MMO has kept me for more then 2 months since then, except for GW2. I have been playing GW2 since early launch, and have 6 characters running ranging from levels 10-42. So for me I see myself playing this game for a very long time.

It all depends on what you find fun. As is its not meant to be played less, it just takes less to get up and going. If you are looking for a game of continual progress in character strength and stat development, this isn’t your game for long. If you like tons of PvE progress and variation this is probably not your game. The exception there is if you like to constantly try to improve how you do in that content, better, faster runs all the time, less deaths, etc. or if you are a collector of looks and appearance and must have all armor sets and legendaries. If you like PvP and WvW competition that allows for more personal skill and group development in an action based sort of way, you have a lot here.

Personally, I go hard burnout, break for a few weeks, return and repeat. I enjoy it.

i couldnt play “hardcore” wow.
scheduled stuff and such? not for me.

i just want a cool coop rpg.
and gw2 almost gives me that!
thats why i want more instanced content; its my endgame to coop difficult content, but casually

Dyroth.5063:

If you are looking for a game of continual progress in character strength and stat development, this isn’t your game for long. If you like tons of PvE progress and variation this is probably not your game.

Thanks.

It’s a big letdown to hear that, but thanks.

Seriously for such an amazingly beautiful game lush with exploration and great systems, they should have catered more to constant progression ideals. Leveling 1 to 80 was awesome and satisfying, at least the first time through. But then you’re left with no more satisfying progression to make. Whoever made that call on the design team should re-think how to approach end-game.

1.) Add an LFG auto-group interface.
2.) Add really high tiers of items only available in the hardest dungeons.

I hate WoW nowadays, mostly due to them splitting the game into two, but they should get a lot of credit for their PvE item progression at end-game. GW2 should take a page from it if they want more people to play their game.

its understandable they want people back in their huge open world.

but gosh its boring to faceroll that content when youre fully geared.

thats the challenge they face: how to make open world interesting to a fully geared lvl 80?
i dont think they have the solution yet.

pkbot.1345:

Thanks.

It’s a big letdown to hear that, but thanks.

Seriously for such an amazingly beautiful game lush with exploration and great systems, they should have catered more to constant progression ideals. Leveling 1 to 80 was awesome and satisfying, at least the first time through. But then you’re left with no more satisfying progression to make. Whoever made that call on the design team should re-think how to approach end-game.

1.) Add an LFG auto-group interface.
2.) Add really high tiers of items only available in the hardest dungeons.

1) Disagree. Auto-queuing takes the social aspect out of forming group. A more comprehensive LFG tool though would be nice for both PvE (Personal Story, Events, General Grouping) and WvW (Siegeing, Roaming Parties ect).

2) Again, I don’t want to have to be limited to one content type to gear up.

It’s kind of like GW, where the best gear is easy to get, and everything else is just refining your build / skill hunting ect.

As is, WoW is already established in their PvE model. In order for GW2 to compete, they’d either have to produce something better or offer an alternative experience (which is what they’re doing).

Yeah, progression is really minimal compared to other MMOs out there. You don’t become stronger with gear, but you become better by playing better — timing dodges, timing interrupts, positioning.

Back in WoW, I stuck with only one main. And when I got bored, I rolled another class just for the heck of it and for the use of my subscription time. In GW2, I roll an alt to learn about the class and to learn how they play differently. I play a Thief and rolled a Mesmer because they were annoying in WvW and sPvP. After learning about Mesmers and leveling it to 80 (because they are really really fun), I wanted to roll other classes to get to know them more.

It’s not designed to be played less, it’s designed so that you aren’t required to play more.

I’ve played wow for 7+ years and I can honestly say that not having to regear my toons every couple months is an plus. I’ve also played Aion, Warhammer, AOC and Rift to max level and they were the same way as wow, new gear every couple of months. The thing’s that gw2 could improve on is world event maybe more like rift random event system and They need to polish their game more before they add more content. They need me on their development team!

TheDaiBish.9735:

1) Disagree. Auto-queuing takes the social aspect out of forming group. A more comprehensive LFG tool though would be nice for both PvE (Personal Story, Events, General Grouping) and WvW (Siegeing, Roaming Parties ect).

Are people serious with this? What social aspect is there to spamming “LFG <dungeon>”? All it does is lead to a more inefficient gameplay experience.

Social aspect comes into play when you get into a group and are working together to complete the dungeon, not while you’re scrambling for an hour in hopes that someone sees your message.

I’ve seen a lot of thick-headedness in this community that basically think whatever Arenanet is designing is automatically good. They’ve made quite a bit of bad decisions that have driven off the players that make MMO environments exciting, enjoyable, and lively.

pkbot.1345:

TheDaiBish.9735:

1) Disagree. Auto-queuing takes the social aspect out of forming group. A more comprehensive LFG tool though would be nice for both PvE (Personal Story, Events, General Grouping) and WvW (Siegeing, Roaming Parties ect).

Are people serious with this? What social aspect is there to spamming “LFG <dungeon>”? All it does is lead to a more inefficient gameplay experience.

Because I totally didn’t say ‘add a more comprehensive LFG tool’, did I?

pkbot.1345:

TSLlol.4879:

Hahahahahahah. I would have loved to watch you play ONLY Vanilla-WoW for 5 years straight.

That’s a slightly creepy comment, but yeah I played WoW for 5 years straight because the content and end-game progression they had in place was enough to keep me interested until they released new major content.

GW2 dropped off for me pretty quickly after hitting max level.

Yes, you played WoW for 5 years, by buying the expansions. I highly doubt you’ve played at the release of Vanilla WoW. It had half, or maybe even less of the endgame content Vanilla-GW2 has.

TheDaiBish.9735:

pkbot.1345:

TheDaiBish.9735:

1) Disagree. Auto-queuing takes the social aspect out of forming group. A more comprehensive LFG tool though would be nice for both PvE (Personal Story, Events, General Grouping) and WvW (Siegeing, Roaming Parties ect).

Are people serious with this? What social aspect is there to spamming “LFG <dungeon>”? All it does is lead to a more inefficient gameplay experience.

Because I totally didn’t say ‘add a more comprehensive LFG tool’, did I?

So….? Auto-queue for dungeons wouldn’t work? You have to manually select which group to join in order for it to be social? You’re not making any sense as to why you oppose an auto-queue.

TSLlol.4879:

pkbot.1345:

TSLlol.4879:

Hahahahahahah. I would have loved to watch you play ONLY Vanilla-WoW for 5 years straight.

That’s a slightly creepy comment, but yeah I played WoW for 5 years straight because the content and end-game progression they had in place was enough to keep me interested until they released new major content.

GW2 dropped off for me pretty quickly after hitting max level.

Yes, you played WoW for 5 years, by buying the expansions. I highly doubt you’ve played at the release of Vanilla WoW. It had half, or maybe even less of the endgame content Vanilla-GW2 has.

Yes I played vanilla WoW, and the 40 man raid on molten core, including the few end-game dungeons was more than enough. You know why? because the progression! GW2 could have a million dungeons, but they wouldn’t fun if there is no extra progression. This is why WoW Vanilla end-game was actually fun compared to GW2 Vanilla.

pkbot.1345:

So….? Auto-queue for dungeons wouldn’t work? You have to manually select which group to join in order for it to be social? You’re not making any sense as to why you oppose an auto-queue.

Ok, from previous experience with WoW, all auto-queue done was put you in a dungeon. No interaction was needed at all. It was a case of group > do dungeon > leave > go back into queue. More often than not, ‘hi’ was the only interaction ever.

In GW2, I’ve had more interaction with a group while we’re waiting for the extra 1 – 2 party members, we’ll chat in Party chat about stuffs more often than not, maybe walk the one guy who has never done the dungeon before through the tactics.

pkbot.1345:

This is why WoW Vanilla end-game was actually fun compared to GW2 Vanilla.

Fun is subjective. Just saying.

TheDaiBish.9735:

1) Disagree. Auto-queuing takes the social aspect out of forming group. A more comprehensive LFG tool though would be nice for both PvE (Personal Story, Events, General Grouping) and WvW (Siegeing, Roaming Parties ect).

2) Again, I don’t want to have to be limited to one content type to gear up.

It’s kind of like GW, where the best gear is easy to get, and everything else is just refining your build / skill hunting ect.

As is, WoW is already established in their PvE model. In order for GW2 to compete, they’d either have to produce something better or offer an alternative experience (which is what they’re doing).

Yes 100% for 1). One of the few things Warhammer Online did right was an effective warband system that allowed people to join large groups in RvR (their version of WvW).

I also agree that GW2 needed to do something different. Too many MMOs have failed because they tried to out-Blizzard Blizzard. WoW has honed the gear grind down to a fine art, no one can hope to duplicate and even if they did, they would be accused of being nothing but a copy-cat that isn’t as good as the original.

GW1 showed that it is possible to maintain a playerbase with a distinct gear cap. It should be possible to keep that sort of playerbase even it the modern MMO market.

As an example from another game, look at the MMO World of Tanks (it’s not an MMORPG but it’s definitely an MMO with progression). The Tier X tanks in that game represent a distinct cap and it gotten millions of players in the game for . WoT has introduced different Tiers of tanks from different countries and that has worked well to keep people playing for almost 2 years now.

I think GW2 could be able to keep players even without the typical WoW gear grind. Just because Blizzard perfected their system doesn’t mean it’s the only way to make a MMORPG.

tldr: Games don’t need to copy WoW. Games in the modern MMO market can try something different.

pkbot.1345:

TSLlol.4879:

pkbot.1345:

TSLlol.4879:

Hahahahahahah. I would have loved to watch you play ONLY Vanilla-WoW for 5 years straight.

That’s a slightly creepy comment, but yeah I played WoW for 5 years straight because the content and end-game progression they had in place was enough to keep me interested until they released new major content.

GW2 dropped off for me pretty quickly after hitting max level.

Yes, you played WoW for 5 years, by buying the expansions. I highly doubt you’ve played at the release of Vanilla WoW. It had half, or maybe even less of the endgame content Vanilla-GW2 has.

Yes I played vanilla WoW, and the 40 man raid on molten core, including the few end-game dungeons was more than enough. You know why? because the progression! GW2 could have a million dungeons, but they wouldn’t fun if there is no extra progression. This is why WoW Vanilla end-game was actually fun compared to GW2 Vanilla.

Jesus Christ, how would it not have any “extra progression”?!?! Every time you run an endgame dungeon in GW2 you progress towards making your character more powerful & cool, and even progress towards your legendary weapon/other craftable weapons that you desire.

As for your “geartreadmill=best” argument. You’d be surprise how much more people are driven off by having to constantly grind to keep up and even access certain content of the game. Yes, there is geargrind in GW2, especially since the Ascended gear tier has been added, but ANet doesn’t ban you from certain contents of the game because you don’t have sufficient gear for it…

At this point though I realize you’re just a troll, so I’m going to stop feeding you now.

TheDaiBish.9735:

pkbot.1345:

So….? Auto-queue for dungeons wouldn’t work? You have to manually select which group to join in order for it to be social? You’re not making any sense as to why you oppose an auto-queue.

Ok, from previous experience with WoW, all auto-queue done was put you in a dungeon. No interaction was needed at all. It was a case of group > do dungeon > leave > go back into queue. More often than not, ‘hi’ was the only interaction ever.

In GW2, I’ve had more interaction with a group while we’re waiting for the extra 1 – 2 party members, we’ll chat in Party chat about stuffs more often than not, maybe walk the one guy who has never done the dungeon before through the tactics.

So? This still doesn’t mean you oppose an auto-queue.

Example: You queue for AC through the new LFG Interface. There is another person in the same queue, so it puts you together in a party. You say “a/s/l?” (kidding, but you get the point) then as other people join the queue it adds them to the party, then when you’re full you do the dungeon.

Does this make sense to you now? Why would you disagree with this system?

now that the ascended stuff is available with laurels..
there is no grind anymore.

you could do 1 different zone every day and different dungeons everyday and still get the gear.

thats like… no grind.
(doesnt mean its fun)
but
its
NOT
a grind.

TSLlol.4879:

pkbot.1345:

TSLlol.4879:

pkbot.1345:

TSLlol.4879:

Hahahahahahah. I would have loved to watch you play ONLY Vanilla-WoW for 5 years straight.

That’s a slightly creepy comment, but yeah I played WoW for 5 years straight because the content and end-game progression they had in place was enough to keep me interested until they released new major content.

GW2 dropped off for me pretty quickly after hitting max level.

Yes, you played WoW for 5 years, by buying the expansions. I highly doubt you’ve played at the release of Vanilla WoW. It had half, or maybe even less of the endgame content Vanilla-GW2 has.

Yes I played vanilla WoW, and the 40 man raid on molten core, including the few end-game dungeons was more than enough. You know why? because the progression! GW2 could have a million dungeons, but they wouldn’t fun if there is no extra progression. This is why WoW Vanilla end-game was actually fun compared to GW2 Vanilla.

Jesus Christ, how would it not have any “extra progression”?!?! Every time you run an endgame dungeon in GW2 you progress towards making your character more powerful & cool, and even progress towards your legendary weapon/other craftable weapons that you desire.

So many delusional players here. You’re not making any progression. you’re just doing the dungeon for vanity items. Spend a few gold to get exotic items crafted and you’re good to go basically forever. Vanity is only 20% of the satisfaction you get from better gear, the rest is actually improving your characters capability. It’s RPG 101

pkbot.1345:

So? This still doesn’t mean you oppose an auto-queue.

Example: You queue for AC through the new LFG Interface. There is another person in the same queue, so it puts you together in a party. You say “a/s/l?” (kidding, but you get the point) then as other people join the queue it adds them to the party, then when you’re full you do the dungeon.

Does this make sense to you now? Why would you disagree with this system?

Where’s the chance to chat with your party if it goes from Open World > Dungeon with no gap?

I oppose the system because it requires no interaction, and doesn’t encourage interaction.

Aside from convenience, how is an auto-queue tool superior from a LFG tool?

pkbot.1345:

So many delusional players here. You’re not making any progression. you’re just doing the dungeon for vanity items. Spend a few gold to get exotic items crafted and you’re good to go basically forever. Vanity is only 20% of the satisfaction you get from better gear, the rest is actually improving your characters capability. It’s RPG 101

Did you not research the game before you bought it?

As for calling people delusional; it’s delusional to assume people want the same things, and view the same things as ‘progression’.

If I haven’t got an achievement, and then a week later I got it, I’ve progressed.

TSLlol.4879:

As for your “geartreadmill=best” argument. You’d be surprise how much more people are driven off by having to constantly grind to keep up and even access certain content of the game.

Right, because GW2 doesn’t have severely underperforming numbers post-level 80 and WoW drove off soooo many players with their end-game character progression……

Just take a second to think before posting.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Where’s the chance to chat with your party if it goes from Open World > Dungeon with no gap?

I oppose the system because it requires no interaction, and doesn’t encourage interaction.

Aside from convenience, how is an auto-queue tool superior from a LFG tool?

omfg…isn’t it obvious? You don’t have to waste time manually putting the group together!

And please, if you’re so apt on maintaining a social connection with randoms you find, then chat while you’re in the dungeon. Is that so hard?

yeah, gw2 endgame needs a lot of work.

so far the holiday kept us “busy”

the fotm are the endgame.

and the living story… suitable for a level 20. as a 80 its a joke.

so basically, its FotM or the other dungeons. or grind/farm orr and other zergfests.

pkbot.1345:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Where’s the chance to chat with your party if it goes from Open World > Dungeon with no gap?

I oppose the system because it requires no interaction, and doesn’t encourage interaction.

Aside from convenience, how is an auto-queue tool superior from a LFG tool?

omfg…isn’t it obvious? You don’t have to waste time manually putting the group together!

And please, if you’re so apt on maintaining a social connection with randoms you find, then chat while you’re in the dungeon. Is that so hard?

Aside from convenience, how is an auto-queue tool superior from a LFG tool?

As for the chatting while in dungeons, read one of my previous comments; my experience before is that no-one wants to chat in dungeons. Just run through, complete as fast as possible, just to queue up again.

pkbot.1345:

TSLlol.4879:

pkbot.1345:

TSLlol.4879:

Hahahahahahah. I would have loved to watch you play ONLY Vanilla-WoW for 5 years straight.

That’s a slightly creepy comment, but yeah I played WoW for 5 years straight because the content and end-game progression they had in place was enough to keep me interested until they released new major content.

GW2 dropped off for me pretty quickly after hitting max level.

Yes, you played WoW for 5 years, by buying the expansions. I highly doubt you’ve played at the release of Vanilla WoW. It had half, or maybe even less of the endgame content Vanilla-GW2 has.

Yes I played vanilla WoW, and the 40 man raid on molten core, including the few end-game dungeons was more than enough. You know why? because the progression! GW2 could have a million dungeons, but they wouldn’t fun if there is no extra progression. This is why WoW Vanilla end-game was actually fun compared to GW2 Vanilla.

So you are saying you could be doing a fun dungeon, but it wouldn’t be fun because it lacks progressive gear drops?

egads.

No wonder MMO content is so stale.

pkbot.1345:

TSLlol.4879:

As for your “geartreadmill=best” argument. You’d be surprise how much more people are driven off by having to constantly grind to keep up and even access certain content of the game.

Right, because GW2 doesn’t have severely underperforming numbers post-level 80 and WoW drove off soooo many players with their end-game character progression……

Just take a second to think before posting.

I’m one of those who got sick of the gear treadmill. Been WoW free since Cata. But I think GW2 will not win the hardcore WoW crowd since they’re settled with their gear-progression based gameplay. GW2 offers something different, and it should stay that way. There’s a melange of MMOs that have gear-based progression. GW2 is offering something different, although it’s trying to appeal to the gear-based progression players via Ascended items.

a lot of people chat in FotM i find.

anet need to quicky work on adding many more FotM.

thats their only viable pve endgame i think.
they are random, deprived of lore and logic and cutscenes, in and out timless smack fest with the right challenge level.

its the best we got..

nastyjman.8207:

pkbot.1345:

TSLlol.4879:

As for your “geartreadmill=best” argument. You’d be surprise how much more people are driven off by having to constantly grind to keep up and even access certain content of the game.

Right, because GW2 doesn’t have severely underperforming numbers post-level 80 and WoW drove off soooo many players with their end-game character progression……

Just take a second to think before posting.

I’m one of those who got sick of the gear treadmill. Been WoW free since Cata. But I think GW2 will not win the hardcore WoW crowd since they’re settled with their gear-progression based gameplay. GW2 offers something different, and it should stay that way. There’s a melange of MMOs that have gear-based progression. GW2 is offering something different, although it’s trying to appeal to the gear-based progression players via Ascended items.

so far the players the game is built to retain the most are:
pvpers (in wvwvw) and open world farmers.

Joey.3928:

I don’t think GW2 was designed for the casual player or to be played less. I think it was designed so people can easily have fun in the game with very little hoops to jump through. I actually think we are seeing superior design in this game when compared to the older models we are used to.

That’s pretty obvious, hence the success of GW2 we’re seeing. Honestly, it becomes blatantly obvious when you go back to any other MMO released before GW2. You’ll just go like… “Eugh… what is this even, this was sooo much better in GW2” to everything.

eventually, people will end up in wvw and dungeons.

that living story and dailies wont achieve much, except make us go visit the world sometimes.

TheDaiBish.9735:

I’d say it’s more a game you can pick up as and when you want to with no pressure of keeping up with anyone to access content.

Pretty much this.

Avatar.1923:

nastyjman.8207:

pkbot.1345:

TSLlol.4879:

As for your “geartreadmill=best” argument. You’d be surprise how much more people are driven off by having to constantly grind to keep up and even access certain content of the game.

Right, because GW2 doesn’t have severely underperforming numbers post-level 80 and WoW drove off soooo many players with their end-game character progression……

Just take a second to think before posting.

I’m one of those who got sick of the gear treadmill. Been WoW free since Cata. But I think GW2 will not win the hardcore WoW crowd since they’re settled with their gear-progression based gameplay. GW2 offers something different, and it should stay that way. There’s a melange of MMOs that have gear-based progression. GW2 is offering something different, although it’s trying to appeal to the gear-based progression players via Ascended items.

so far the players the game is built to retain the most are:
pvpers (in wvwvw) and open world farmers.

Yeah, I’ve been WvWing a lot after the mass exodus in our server (Isle of Janthir). When I don’t feel like WvWing, I go out, explore Tyria and help out a couple of lowbies. I think this was the best decision ever — separating open world PvP from open world PvE.

Since there is a debate (and I use the term loosely here) on the advantages and disadvantages of an LFG tool or an auto queue, I’ll add my opinion.

Auto queue is by far the faster option. Just click, wait and go. But in the end you get thrown in with anyone. Auto queue for AC and you could end up with a team of 4 under geared level 35s who are completely new to everything. Your options are to either suffer a lot or leave screwing them over.

LFG tool would be slower and obviously elitist based. Look at the website now, “LFM warrior berzerker gear only”. But that allows you to run with who you want, picking and choosing how to build your party or find one that you are comfortable with. If you join a group of all 35s trying to run AC, again you have two options, suffer or politely tell them no thank you and they continue to look for their masochist.

pkbot.1345:

So many delusional players here. You’re not making any progression. you’re just doing the dungeon for vanity items. Spend a few gold to get exotic items crafted and you’re good to go basically forever. Vanity is only 20% of the satisfaction you get from better gear, the rest is actually improving your characters capability. It’s RPG 101

You’re not making any significant progression with vertical progression either. You’re just doing the next type of content which is exactly the same thing as before, except now you get a insignificant stat boost each time you do something giving everyting before it a feign of importance because you must level up /stat up /gear up. Instead GW2 gives players the choice.

Also Living story = progression. I wanna see this game in a few years and then we will see. This game is always changing. It’s already tons different from when it came out.

pkbot.1345:

So many delusional players here. You’re not making any progression. you’re just doing the dungeon for vanity items. Spend a few gold to get exotic items crafted and you’re good to go basically forever. Vanity is only 20% of the satisfaction you get from better gear, the rest is actually improving your characters capability. It’s RPG 101

This is subjective, WoW went away from a lot of the classic RPG elements that earlier RPGS/MMORPGs had. Yes ofc pen and paper RPGS had somewhat stat progression but they were a lot more about doing awesome adventuring and immerse urself into ur character and while doing that finding great treasures. They were not just about stat grind.

FrizzFreston.5290:

pkbot.1345:

So many delusional players here. You’re not making any progression. you’re just doing the dungeon for vanity items. Spend a few gold to get exotic items crafted and you’re good to go basically forever. Vanity is only 20% of the satisfaction you get from better gear, the rest is actually improving your characters capability. It’s RPG 101

You’re not making any significant progression with vertical progression either. You’re just doing the next type of content which is exactly the same thing as before, except now you get a insignificant stat boost each time you do something giving everyting before it a feign of importance because you must level up /stat up /gear up. Instead GW2 gives players the choice.

Also Living story = progression. I wanna see this game in a few years and then we will see. This game is always changing. It’s already tons different from when it came out.

Yup and working to get cultural tier 3 armor so ull look awesome is a lot more enjoyable IMO then boring end game raids over and over to get +2 strength on ur character… Bleh I dont want to do that again EVER again..

I like that GW 2 is somewhat going back to the roots of RPGS

pkbot.1345:

So many delusional players here. You’re not making any progression. you’re just doing the dungeon for vanity items. Spend a few gold to get exotic items crafted and you’re good to go basically forever. Vanity is only 20% of the satisfaction you get from better gear, the rest is actually improving your characters capability. It’s RPG 101

RPG 101 is the playing experience. Character improvement is secondary to the experience of running a make-believe character in a make-believe universe. Back in high school/college when my friends and I would pen and paper RPG, we would frequently retire old characters who’d achieved enormous success and wealth, and restart with freshly rerolled characters. RPGing isn’t about the destination, it’s about the journey.

Unfortunately, the online gaming companies quickly figured out that while that may have been the original focus of RPGs, the addictive quality of the upgrade treadmill was highly effective in getting people to come back to play day after day. Which meant more $$$ for them if they used a subscription model. So pretty much all online MMORPGs after Ultima Online went for the level/achievement treadmill.

Achievement is hardly the only way to play the game. Go read Bartle’s seminal paper on the topic. (Had to use an indirect link because the board’s profanity filter was messing up the direct link.)

GW2 (and GW1 for that matter) is not a game which focuses on satiating achievers. It has elements which will appeal to achievers. But Anet’s primary audience has always been explorers and killers. That’s why leveling is easy, there’s diminishing returns to discourage you from camping the same location for hours, you’re strongly encouraged to PvP, there’s no monthly fee, and you get exp and rewards for discovering new places. Legendaries were a bone thrown in to mollify complaining achievers, and have the same effectiveness in combat as regular exotic gear.

If you’re an achiever and this bothers you, then you’re finally getting a taste of the frustration we explorers had to put up with for over a decade of RPGs (killers could always play FPS, and socializers went to Facebook). GW2 is a game for explorer/killers. You’re welcome to play if you’re an achiever. But please don’t try to turn pretty much the only explorer RPG in the market into yet another RPG for achievers. There are dozens of MMORPGs out there that cater solely to achievers.

pkbot.1345:

TSLlol.4879:

Hahahahahahah. I would have loved to watch you play ONLY Vanilla-WoW for 5 years straight.

That’s a slightly creepy comment, but yeah I played WoW for 5 years straight because the content and end-game progression they had in place was enough to keep me interested until they released new major content.

GW2 dropped off for me pretty quickly after hitting max level.

You mean you enjoyed WoW’s so-called “end-game content/progression” carrot on a stick design. GW2 doesn’t have “OMG I MUST GET THIS GEAR CUZ ITS NECESSARY FOR ME TO DO SO AND SO CONTENT.” GW2 have cosmetics in place of people who want a gear grind, which are optional to achieve. The only reason it feels like GW2 has “run out of things to do” is because there is no carrot on a stick that makes players log-in constantly in order to stay up to date with gear.

As I’m sure you know, in WoW, you do dungeons to amass tokens which were necessary to do raids(unless you get carried). Then when you finally get into raids, you repeat the same raid until you get your desired gear. Once you obtain your “end-game gear” it’ll be obsolete in the next raid that’s released every couple months. After that, you repeat the same cycle of dungeon→raids. What a amazing concept of “progression”! sarcasm

pkbot.1345:

Implying that GW2, favoring a more casual type of gamer, was basically designed with the intention of it being played less than other “gear-treadmill, grinding” MMORPGs.

That’s true. Pay to play MMOs want to keep people playing, and thus paying, all the time. Hence the “stick dangling in front of a carrot” model that tries to addict people to MMOs. Unfortunately, said model results in mediocre games, which is what classic MMOs are (the idea there is playing to grind, not playing to have fun, so it makes sense).

GW2 is following a different model. Those who want the grindy, carrot-based MMOs have many other options out there. It’s about time someone made a MMO for a different kind of player.

I love this game because unlike WoW, me and my friends can play whatever content we want when we want.

I don’t have to grind a dungeon 30 times for a piece of gear just so I can do the next one. I don’t have to play like its a full time job to be competitive in PvP, and I can finally RP without feeling guilty because I am not “Progressing”.

I really wonder if people like the OP like playing MMOs or just like feeling more powerful than us casuals.

pkbot.1345:

2.) Add really high tiers of items only available in the hardest dungeons.

I hate WoW nowadays, mostly due to them splitting the game into two, but they should get a lot of credit for their PvE item progression at end-game. GW2 should take a page from it if they want more people to play their game.

No, WoW shouldn’t be given any credit for their PvE progression at end game. WoW has created a job, not a fun game. Take a month off? Ha, forget it. You’re already behind on rep, gear, gems, enchants and no, it’s just not fun.

The LAST thing GW2 should do is take a page from WoW’s play book.

The item progression in WoW is horrid! It never ends, you never get a break and you never get to have any fun because all you are doing is chasing the next tier, the next epic gem, the next rep for an enchant. Ugh.

I know it’s not your fault OP, but it’s getting boring reading post after post after post asking for WoW’s ridiculous treadmill. It makes no sense. If that is what you want in a a game, why not play that game? Why does GW2 have to be ruined?

Avatar.1923:

yeah, gw2 endgame needs a lot of work.

so far the holiday kept us “busy”

the fotm are the endgame.

and the living story… suitable for a level 20. as a 80 its a joke.

so basically, its FotM or the other dungeons. or grind/farm orr and other zergfests.

but i can get the acended gear by doing dailys and monthlys now why the hell would i need to do FOTM

also with the update’s Zergeing in Orr dosnt work so good. go zerg the new grenth tell me how that works out for you

Banono.4597:

I love this game because unlike WoW, me and my friends can play whatever content we want when we want.

I don’t have to grind a dungeon 30 times for a piece of gear just so I can do the next one. I don’t have to play like its a full time job to be competitive in PvP, and I can finally RP without feeling guilty because I am not “Progressing”.

I really wonder if people like the OP like playing MMOs or just like feeling more powerful than us casuals.

feeling more powerful.

and on top of that i dont think thay understand the physiological effect’s paying the 15$ sub had on them ((it would keep them comeing back)) or the fact that for many of them wow was there first MMO and they had no pre-conceptions of what an mmo “should” be.

and than there is also the hole fact that WoW’s end game pretty much forced you to be social ((a big part of any MMO)) were as GW2 dosn’t but getting yourself in a good guild will incress the longevity of this game ten fold

pkbot.1345:

Are people serious with this? What social aspect is there to spamming “LFG <dungeon>”? All it does is lead to a more inefficient gameplay experience.

Social aspect comes into play when you get into a group and are working together to complete the dungeon, not while you’re scrambling for an hour in hopes that someone sees your message.

My boyf played WoW this week and did four dungeons using the LFG tool. In all of them, despite him saying hello, no-one said a thing. Not a word. Everyone knew what to do to the point that no co-ordination or chat was necessary.
Actually, one guy copped a tonne of abuse for stopping to mine a node in combat (yea, a mis-prioritisation, but not abuse worthy).

I’m NOT saying this is comprehensive, well sampled, non-confounding evidence that LFG tools are bad for social elements of doing dungeons, it’s just an anecdote of something to be avoided (lacking need to talk in groups).