Guild Wars 2

What a wasted opportunity to bring back dervish and paragon.

They could have brought them back as specialisations. It would have been great to introduce scythes and spears. Now I don’t know if I want to play the new expansion or go back to GW1. Plus I wanted to kill the next elder dragon,… not Balthazar.

Iirc both dervish and paragon are very human centric classes idk how well would that work with the 5 races of today.

They shouldn’t bring back a class simply because we are nostalgic for the “good old days.”

Well… they killed ritualist even before Cantha expansion, now Revenant – Renegade will summon spirits (Chars spirits). Sad.

zealex.9410:

Iirc both dervish and paragon are very human centric classes idk how well would that work with the 5 races of today.

There wasn’t anything human specific about the paragon. It was simply implied to be a Sunspear based class which could easily apply to most of the new expansion specs since Elona has no other sapient humanoids in it. Most of them have flavor text that implies you learn how to be _ only after visiting Elona.

A Charr warrior could onyl ever learn to be a Spellbreaker after talking to Elonian humans for example.

-“The broken weapons of the Sunspears have become daggers in the hands of their descendants, which they use to strike at the very fabric of magic and strip it from their foes. They meditate to see past their enemies’ defenses, and they use their adrenaline to counter attacks.”

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spellbreaker

Dervish could easily be brought back as some kind of secular enchantment sharing class. It wouldn’t clash with any lore but would sadly be rather redundant with what we have now. Boon sharing isn’t a limited class feature and Tempest was basically what you would expect a dervish to look like in GW2.

I agree with class part. They should have brought dervish, paragon and new weapons instead of new elites. Plus some sort of new class progression.

zealex.9410:

Iirc both dervish and paragon are very human centric classes idk how well would that work with the 5 races of today.

They are intelligent beings. They could learn from humans.

zealex.9410:

Iirc both dervish and paragon are very human centric classes idk how well would that work with the 5 races of today.

Paragon was a racially neutral class… they were basically just warriors whos inspiring presence made them better suited for the role of leadership and remaining on the back lines in combat supporting their allies and attacking from a distance. There is very little that prevents them from being a valid option… many people who play the warrior “shout bow” build view their character as a paragon as is…

As for dervish… with the human gods making their presence known in Tyria again, even members of other races that generally don’t worship them would have a hard time denying their existance… also, there were non-human dervishes in GW1… not just talki g about the creatures that used the dervish skill set either, there were dervishes among the charr warbands in EotN as well as a few Norn dervishes… and of course who could forget the numerous centaur that used dervish abilities.

Quite frankly, the lore for the dervish made the open to any races beliefs, becomming a conduit for the power of gods, spirits, or any greater entities. Even the asura who believe in a concept rather than a being could become a dervish by channeling the power of the land itself (as we learned in LWS2, the eternal alchemy and the leylines are interwoven). Techically a dervish is nothing more than a Mystic or a Shaman.

All that said, I’d personally still prefer to see paragon, dervish, and ritualist added back as full classes rather than elite specs.

IMHO I would have thought for sure they were going to bring back the Paragon. I mean spears are already in the game. All they had to do was make a new class that allowed them to use them outside of the water, but whatever.

I really expected to see dervish returning, either as full class or at least as a specialization. What a pity this was not the case …
Not really fond of paragon, but dervish is really a part of that continent.
And i thought it was a time to introduce new weapons like scythe and maybe others.

They re-used a mace animation on guard for the axe and you think they’ll add new weapons? LMFAO

I always envisioned the Guardian as a offshoot of the Paragon. The Revenant seems to be an analog to the Rit. Dervish doesn’t seem to have anything similar to it though.

I had more than half expected Dervish and Paragon elite specs in this expansion. Not that they are needed or anything but it would have been a way to link new systems to the lore of the region.

Paragon will probably never come back, because the profession’s been divided between Guardian and Warrior. Ritualist has been divided among several classes, as well.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

They shouldn’t bring back a class simply because we are nostalgic for the “good old days.”

Wow, the nostalgia point. Great reasoning. Why not? We’ve got a Warrior, Necromancer, Ranger, Elementalist, Mesmer and even some sort of Assassin just as in GW.

Did they do that because we were nostalgic for the “good old days”?
They could have scrapped them completely and created new classes we’ve never heard of. They could have also renamed Tyria into Dragon Land. They could have renamed the game into Dragon Wars 2 if we’re already on it.

But GW2 is the sequel of GW1, even if they’re completely different games. And an expansion that partly takes place in Elona – which existed in GW1 – might have been a great chance to re-introduce a class called Dervish – that also existed back then. You might have already noticed that some elite specs are directly connected to the lore of Elona. But yeah, let’s just forget about every great connection the story could have had and every bridge between the two games. Just because some people would call it being nostalgic.

If you don’t want that then don’t work on Guild Wars 2. Create another MMORPG, think of another world with another story and other classes.

But here’s the best thing: Even if you didn’t play GW you might have fun playing Dervish. People might like it, it’s a great unique class that suits the environment and theme of the expansion. Sounds terrible, right?

Tekey.7946:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

They shouldn’t bring back a class simply because we are nostalgic for the “good old days.”

Wow, the nostalgia point. Great reasoning. Why not? We’ve got a Warrior, Necromancer, Ranger, Elementalist, Mesmer and even some sort of Assassin just as in GW.

My point is that the OP didn’t provide any reasoning other than “dervish, because GW1”. You want to change the status quo? Great, it’s up to you to provide a rationale. All I’m doing is saying that pointing to GW1 isn’t enough.

And, for what it’s worth, GW2’s mesmer isn’t anything like GW1’s except in name. I don’t recommend offering that class as an example unless all you expect is to see an elite spec called “dervish” that uses a staff as if it were a scythe.

Bring back the Monk before Dervish/Paragon. Make the Monk a full damage/retibution class, because if you go back and be nostalgic 600/55 monks were all you saw in GW, very few real monks were around after the Monk strike…

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

My point is that the OP didn’t provide any reasoning other than “dervish, because GW1”. You want to change the status quo? Great, it’s up to you to provide a rationale. All I’m doing is saying that pointing to GW1 isn’t enough.

I thought we could put two and two together and bear all of the other Paragon/Dervish/Ritualist/… threads in mind. Guess we’ll start all over again each time one of these threads appears. Overall it’s pretty simple, adding a new class = more work, but also: additional selling point for the expansion, adding versatility: new weapons, new play style, some people like it, some won’t.

Instead of thinking of a completely new, light saber wielding Sci-Fi class that doesn’t fit the game, it’s understandable to go back to the roots and take a look at the old popular classes of GW. The title of this thread even suggests that the theme of the new expansion would have been a great chance to bring back one of these classes.

All in all, it could have been, but they decided otherwise and that’s how it is right now. Most of the people didn’t expect a whole new class but many hoped to see some of it at least as part of the new elite specs.

Pretty sure the reaper and the new spellbreaker are the dervish.

Dervishes were pretty human-centric. The entire point of them was religious fervor with human gods. Zealots and whatnot. You’d have to do some mild mental gymnastics to justify bringing those into the secular multi-species side of things. Aside from that, the class as it was in GW1 would be redundant now. The Reaper pretty much fills the role of “durable AoE melee with oversized weapon/ condition spreading” (which is great because Dervish was my favorite class in GW1, and Necro is my main in GW2.)

Paragon isn’ human centric at all. Anyone can shout uplifting battlecries. I can totally see Charr doing it for the whole “teamwork/legion” aspect and Norn doing it because if anyone is going to be enthusiastically shouting things in a fight, it’d be a Norn. But again, redundant. Warriors can take the role of battlefield motivator these days.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

They shouldn’t bring back a class simply because we are nostalgic for the “good old days.”

Exactly this. New specs need to provide unique elements. Not just “lulz GW1 had it”.

Dervishes are too tied to human culture specifically, and their mechanical aspects are either not in this game (enchantments) or baseline for everyone (cleaving attacks).

Paragons aren’t necessary because guardians are pretty much a paragon/monk combo in the first place.

Rong.5470:

Well… they killed ritualist even before Cantha expansion, now Revenant – Renegade will summon spirits (Chars spirits). Sad.

The first revenant we know of is a charr

I don’t understand this high rank of idiocy

Rong.5470:

Well… they killed ritualist even before Cantha expansion, now Revenant – Renegade will summon spirits (Chars spirits). Sad.

Scourge shades = spirits. Necromancy and Ritualism have been stated as being very, very similar. Can’t remember the source, so you’ll have to dig that up yourself if you’re interested. Aside from shades not being turrets, it fits very well.

Midnight.7526:

I always envisioned the Guardian as a offshoot of the Paragon. The Revenant seems to be an analog to the Rit. Dervish doesn’t seem to have anything similar to it though.

That’s exactly it, guardians are kind of a melding of paragon and dervish. Turret engineer is mechanically similar to ritualist too. I recall ArenaNet saying that in the run up to GW2’s release.

and the new necromancer spec is basically the earth magic set of the Dervish so in fact everything is splitted allready.

For the Dervish there would be also the prob of how to include balthasar in the current situation as we see some enemys like his Ltn. to be like the Dervish version of his Avatar allready.

I think we can have Ritualist later on in the game as Necromancers or Guardians are a perfect match for the “ghost turrets” while Revenant could be also summon master Togo as he was no big ghost user but a lightning skill user of the ritualist class instead.

Paragorns on the other hand were heavy armor spearusers with Shield which is basically what a Guardian is too just without the spear in most parts (dragon hunter includes a spear throw skill and other mechanics of the paragorn too)

The new warrior spec is more like the assassin class of GW with double dagger as one of the main anti caster builds.

Midnight.7526:

I always envisioned the Guardian as a offshoot of the Paragon. The Revenant seems to be an analog to the Rit. Dervish doesn’t seem to have anything similar to it though.

Warrior is your dervish sans mysticism.

But really, it’s not wasted. People need to realize we aren’t going to be getting gw1 rehashes or new classes at all. We’re getting sidegrades in the form of eSpecs.

We’ll likely never see new weapons introduced, nor will you see “Land Spears”.

Tone down your expectations a bit and you’ll never be disappointed.

First I liked Dervish to a degree but it was not the be all end all profession people make it out to be. Paragon the other profession in Nightfall was basically a one trick pony although I had 24 titles on my paragon. Both classes were fun for what they could do.

The point I am trying to make is they were Guild wars exclusive to Nightfall a place where they shined. But Dervish as a Holy warrior failed in comparison to a 600 monk. Although they should of been better since their skills were all holy damage. Let Guild wars have their professions and Guildwars2 have theirs.

TexZero.7910
We’ll likely never see new weapons introduced, nor will you see “Land Spears”.

In the new lore there will not be spears any more Palawa Joko outlawed them for humans to have in Elona so they made them into daggers and the new Spellbreaker was born.