Guild Wars 2

I’ve watched these forums for over 2 years now hoping beyond hope that the devs would actually revert to their previous system of listening to the playerbase that they had a very strong system of doing prior to launch. I’ve waited to see if they’d actually take the time kitten many have pointed out in the thread about the new Forum Specialists, that they already have all they need to know on what to do what the players have asked for and what has already worked in other titles to fix the all too common issues this game faces. Now let me just start off by saying that this isn’t about me, this is about all of the suggestions that have been completely ignored by the team, not a single one was thought of when it comes to the most problematic areas of this game.

I’m going to be blunt. I’m giving it a year. I’m watching it a bit longer against by better judgement, to see if things change for the better. The reason? Call it curiosity call it kindness whatever, but I’m going to give it one last chance.

The reason why this sounds so final is due to several facts but mostly it’s due to an announcement today of a game that’s coming to the west that has every single thing I’ve asked for in this title over the past 2+ years. Housing, mounts, mounted combat, farming, fishing, advanced crafting, hunting and (even though I never asked for this but expected this game to have this kind of focus) best of all NO INSTANCES of any kind.

Now I’m not naming any names here but I’ve gotta say I’m highly impressed with this other title. Sure there might be a gear treadmill and open PVP but I’m willing to trade that for all of the other things that I’ve been waiting for in an MMO title. When I first bought this game the thing that came to mind with all of their early interviews was “man! here’s a team of developers that know what the playerbase wants and can deliver on it despite all of the whining that comes out of the various partycrashers” (that I like to call the 1%, the Apologists, and the Blind). But sadly something happened after launch, someone was lost or something happened to the game plan, someone decided to change the rules or something happened to the people in charge of keeping in touch with the players, because suddenly, it all went downhill and has stayed there ever since.

I’m giving it a year, here’s to hoping something anything comes out of the Forum Specialists and the next Feature Packs because quite frankly, I can’t imagine more of the same.

Actually, if you are looking for all that, I believe LotRo has had that stuff for a long time now.

Well, not the mounted combat. That is fairly new, but still, it has it now.

Anyone who is willing to put up with the game for the past 2 years aint leaving any time soon now anyways

I love this game as it is. All I really want out of it is a series of true expansion packs and more PvE endgame content like dungeons or raids.

Chase.8415:

Anyone who is willing to put up with the game for the past 2 years aint leaving any time soon now anyways

So certain you are, hmm?

Yea, the NA/EU publisher for Black Desert was announced. Congrats. xP

Maby you should stop and think why some of those suggestions just doesn’t pop up.

Mounts/Dueling/Open world PvP – There are alot of mixed opinion on this topic so it would hurt the game atleast as much as it will be good for the game so I think they won’t win anything on develop this at the moment.

Advanced Crafting – Personaly I have never seen this topic so I don’t even know what it is.

Housing/Hunting/Fishing – While it would be something nice it is still something that won’t give the game realy new life and I think it would cost more than it would give at the moment.

Now what this game could need and that has been asked for for years is Dungeons and more game modes for PvP but I am pretty sure that they are working on it, in fact about the PvP part they have been implementing game modes for Custom Arenas so that’s a sign… But it is realy sloooOOoooOooooooOOOoooow for some reason. But a fan boy as I am, I am sure they are doing the best they can.

In short; Give it a year but I don’t think you will se most of those examples being implemented next year.

Ever heard of the boy who cried wolf? There seems to be many boys crying wolf in these forums, threatening to leave if they don’t get what they want and yet they continue to stick around anyway…

I wonder how many times we have seen these kind of threads and how many times the posters have actually left.

Yeah .. open PvP .. just look at the Wildstar forums to see how good that works out.
Their PvP server seems to be already a wasteland even as a megaserver.

I think GW2 is the perfect game for ppl who like play MMO but are busy in real life

I myself have no time to play the game very often anymore and since that i feel the speed of the LS is almost to fast …. unbelievable i know

and there is no pressure at all in the game is a nice thing jump in play and leave 2 weeks

tigirius.9014:

The reason why this sounds so final is due to several facts but mostly it’s due to an announcement today of a game that’s coming to the west that has every single thing I’ve asked for in this title over the past 2+ years. Housing, mounts, mounted combat, farming, fishing, advanced crafting, hunting and (even though I never asked for this but expected this game to have this kind of focus) best of all NO INSTANCES of any kind.

Now I’m not naming any names here but I’ve gotta say I’m highly impressed with this other title. Sure there might be a gear treadmill and open PVP but I’m willing to trade that for all of the other things that I’ve been waiting for in an MMO title.

Oh please, please please – PM me the name of this new title.

Balsa.3951:

I think GW2 is the perfect game for ppl who like play MMO but are busy in real life

I myself have no time to play the game very often anymore and since that i feel the speed of the LS is almost to fast …. unbelievable i know

and there is no pressure at all in the game is a nice thing jump in play and leave 2 weeks

Yeah, problem is, they’ve advertised their game differently.

tigirius.9014:

But sadly something happened after launch, someone was lost or something happened to the game plan, someone decided to change the rules or something happened to the people in charge of keeping in touch with the players, because suddenly, it all went downhill and has stayed there ever since.

Well, I’ll say this much in Anet’s defense: despite their many-splendored lapses in judgment, things could be much worse. See: Cryptic. Because, as I’m sure everyone knows by now, DR is the best expansion ever and the players love it. /e rimshot

Mental Paradox.3845:

Oh please, please please – PM me the name of this new title.

Aion reborn .. or was it Archeage reborn ? Oh no .. those had at least no gender locked classes.

I wonder really if anyone here has played any asian game with open PvP for 2+ years
and expects that the next of those games will be really that different.

That sounds exactly like Arch Age Online, where a lot of my friends went to play for one week, then came back to GW2.

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

Maby you should stop and think why some of those suggestions just doesn’t pop up.

Mounts/Dueling/Open world PvP – There are alot of mixed opinion on this topic so it would hurt the game atleast as much as it will be good for the game so I think they won’t win anything on develop this at the moment.

Advanced Crafting – Personaly I have never seen this topic so I don’t even know what it is.

Housing/Hunting/Fishing – While it would be something nice it is still something that won’t give the game realy new life and I think it would cost more than it would give at the moment.

Now what this game could need and that has been asked for for years is Dungeons and more game modes for PvP but I am pretty sure that they are working on it, in fact about the PvP part they have been implementing game modes for Custom Arenas so that’s a sign… But it is realy sloooOOoooOooooooOOOoooow for some reason. But a fan boy as I am, I am sure they are doing the best they can.

In short; Give it a year but I don’t think you will se most of those examples being implemented next year.

Dungeons is not a priority in a manner of speaking but small QoL enhancements is the only thing anywhere high on the list.

PvP most likely, dungeons, not so much.

Lévis.5489:

That sounds exactly like Arch Age Online, where a lot of my friends went to play for one week, then came back to GW2.

black desert.

and so what if it’s black desert, it at least has the things Anet promised ppl and looking good doing it.
my only grip is open PvP but i am sure they’ll make a flag system for that, no game like that survives for long with open PvP without lock.

lordkrall.7241:

I wonder how many times we have seen these kind of threads and how many times the posters have actually left.

Unfortunately most of the time, while they may leave the game, they certainly don’t leave the forums.

I thought “I quit” threads weren’t allowed, oh wait it’s Sunday! Worthless thread day!

I googled the news announcement. It’s been edited and they still intend 2016, not 2015, if that changes your ultimatum deadline.

sorudo.9054:

and so what if it’s black desert, it at least has the things Anet promised ppl and looking good doing it.
my only grip is open PvP but i am sure they’ll make a flag system for that, no game like that survives for long with open PvP without lock.

Unreleased MMOs are always better than what’s already up and running, until they are released.

“Archeage is going to kill this game, everyone’s going to leave to play that instead…”

“Wildstar is going to kill this game, everyone’s going to leave to play that instead…”

“Guild Wars 2 is going to kill this game, everyone’s going to leave to play that instead…”

“SWTOR is going to kill this game, everyone’s going to leave to play that instead…”

Only the names change.

Tigerius, you sure think a lot of yourself, posting an “I quit… a year from now” message. I’m sure the devs will be relieved that you’re giving them another 13 months to realize that you know more about the game than they do.

tolunart.2095:

sorudo.9054:

and so what if it’s black desert, it at least has the things Anet promised ppl and looking good doing it.
my only grip is open PvP but i am sure they’ll make a flag system for that, no game like that survives for long with open PvP without lock.

Unreleased MMOs are always better than what’s already up and running, until they are released.

“Archeage is going to kill this game, everyone’s going to leave to play that instead…”

“Wildstar is going to kill this game, everyone’s going to leave to play that instead…”

“Guild Wars 2 is going to kill this game, everyone’s going to leave to play that instead…”

“SWTOR is going to kill this game, everyone’s going to leave to play that instead…”

Only the names change.

true, i spoke to early to be sure, but doesn’t that happen to everyone?
i have seen that about both wildstar and archeage, however i waited because i knew from the start it’s gonna show nothing more then allot of the same.

i do have to say that i have gathered enough info about black desert to have an idea of how the game works, see skyrim with GW2-like magic and you have black desert.
no target, full battle control and a character customization that is really close (if not better) to that of eve online. (and no, archeage is not better, if anything it’s confusing but not better)

ill wait and see, the game looks promising and i really hope it brings what i hoped to see in ESO.
i will say this, it’s not gonna destroy GW2 but it will most certainly draw plenty of ppl away from it.

The content locusts moved on several new game releases ago. There are always high profile releases coming “someday” that will blow away everything that is already running, until open beta happens and people start realizing that it’s just more of what we already have.

Hopes for ESO are transferred to Wildstar and then to Everquest Next. Hopes for Archeage are transferred to Black Desert. By the time these are released there will be the next big things announced, and people will say, sure EQN sucks, but wait until “New MMO” is released…

I see it as a sign of intelligence when developers don’t listen to the players. A great example is Wildstar housing. They spent a boat load of money (likely millions of dollars on housing) and that game is going down in flames.

You are much smarter using internal metrics to find out what players really like and what they really do – and adding that to your game. If it turns out that lots of players like things like Silver Wastes – that’s what you add.

Niche interests dominate the message boards – things like crafting and housing have just demolished so many MMOs over the years. Developers need to be smarter in this industry. They have to know more about game design then the players – and not let the player design the game.

I agree with most of that, Hume, but not that crafting and housing are why games have fared poorly. Indeed, my friends who tried WildStar were wildly enthusiastic about the housing system, it was everything else that bothered them. Horizons was a heavy crafting game that took whole servers to finish projects like bridges to more land, and that was its strength (the weakness lay in terrible rendering causing ungodly lag because the engine rendered even hidden objects before the world would load, as well as fairly clutzy graphics). It also had highly customizable building block housing, albeit made of really large overscaled blocks. DaoC introduced housing (poorly imo) but what killed interest for many there was the stupidly difficult Trials of Atlantis release.

So yes, games that have housing have failed, yet one can hardly logically claim the housing is why.

Well as no-one else has asked…. Can I have your stuff? Now preferably and not in a years time :-P

Hume.2876:

I see it as a sign of intelligence when developers don’t listen to the players. A great example is Wildstar housing. They spent a boat load of money (likely millions of dollars on housing) and that game is going down in flames.

You are much smarter using internal metrics to find out what players really like and what they really do – and adding that to your game. If it turns out that lots of players like things like Silver Wastes – that’s what you add.

Niche interests dominate the message boards – things like crafting and housing have just demolished so many MMOs over the years. Developers need to be smarter in this industry. They have to know more about game design then the players – and not let the player design the game.

As true as this is, one of the issues with the metrics(of this game) in contrast with the current practice is that because of how one laned the practice is, you would only get that one lane of metrics.

TLDR, metrics are useless unless you can build a forked static and manipulating variables that can provide you with multiple responses. People can go to silver wastes for many reasons including the shear fact that its new and they’ve exhausted every other feature available to them or just for the sake that it has a lucrative reward, AKA the black lion key at the end of the Tangled Paths episode.

I’m not saying the product was in poor quality, as a matter of fact that jumping puzzle is probably the best thing to come out of the living story both season 1 and 2, (not counting molten facility or pirate cove since they both were chopped up and vomited back out as small fractal shards), but metrics only tell numbers, numbers can only tell you so much.

Donari.5237:

I agree with most of that, Hume, but not that crafting and housing are why games have fared poorly. Indeed, my friends who tried WildStar were wildly enthusiastic about the housing system, it was everything else that bothered them. Horizons was a heavy crafting game that took whole servers to finish projects like bridges to more land, and that was its strength (the weakness lay in terrible rendering causing ungodly lag because the engine rendered even hidden objects before the world would load, as well as fairly clutzy graphics). It also had highly customizable building block housing, albeit made of really large overscaled blocks. DaoC introduced housing (poorly imo) but what killed interest for many there was the stupidly difficult Trials of Atlantis release.

So yes, games that have housing have failed, yet one can hardly logically claim the housing is why.

This right here.

What a lot of people don’t seem to get is that we need to look at the details closely before coming to a conclusion. If housing was the problem, WoW would be going down in flames as we speak as the Garrison system is a form of housing, obviously that’s not the case.

tigirius.9014:

<snip>

I’m sure they are quaking in their boots. This kind of threat ranks up there with, “I shall right a strongly worded letter to my newspaper.”

Unless you are a “whale” and dropping loads of cash into the gem shop, you and I are equally important in their eyes. While they may feel sad at anyone’s departure, throwing down the gauntlet/giving them an ultimatum isn’t going to amount to anything.

As for jumping ship for another contender on the horizon, I hope it doesn’t disappoint you as other “contenders” have to other players. Just remember you’re account and characters will always be here, unless you are planning scorch the earth with your account upon leaving.

Who knows, maybe that will be the utopia you will have been looking for and in which case, best of luck.

Everybody likes to make this all into a black and white situation when it’s not. Most things aren’t. No game ever “kills” another game. But that doesn’t mean competition doesn’t matter or have an effect. No game is perfect (as if that could even actually be defined). They all have strengths and weaknesses. We as players, as customers, must evaluate those pros vs cons all the time and decide how we feel about that, and how much of our money and time it’s worth.

It may be true that a lot of people who “quit” GW2 end up returning at some point. And why not? Maybe it’s come a long way, maybe that thing you always wanted has finally been implemented, etc. No harm in finding out. Sometimes they decide to stick around, I suspect more times they don’t. Maybe the game they left for didn’t turn out to be all they hoped for, but does that automatically mean GW2 is? No, it does not. Generally the reasons people left will still be the case and when they move on from their new game, it will be moving forward, not back. In any case, white knights sound silly with their “you’ll be back” kitten (for any game).

BDO won’t kill GW2 but it will make some people happy where GW2 couldn’t. Same for AA, EQN, anything else. At one point has that happened enough for it to be seen as a problem? Competition, and being competitive, matters. When you can’t be bothered to compete for your customers anymore, your customers stop caring and looking someone else who will.

I can only speak for this customer. This one right here. <————
I am by no means a “locust”. I’m not made of time or money. I simply don’t have it in me to dedicate myself much to very many games. I don’t play consoles / single player games at all anymore, haven’t for years. It’s got to be an mmo for me (or something similar), generally only one that I’ll be with for a long time. I think I was really loyal to GW1. I did try out LOTRO for a few months, but that’s about it. I was generally happy with GW1, and once I knew GW2 was coming, there was no question I’d get that and be there for years to come, so I still didn’t much care about other games.

But over the last couple years, GW2 has not expanded and developed like I expected it to. Some of its features didn’t turn out as great as they sounded like they’d be during development, and Anet has made a series of design decisions that make it clear they are not “the old Anet”, but new people all together with different philosophies ..not as original or bold as the old team. And they so far haven’t put out anywhere near as much content. GW2 is a good game and I could make a laundry list of its strengths. But I’m not going to pretend these other things don’t weigh down the enjoyment of this old fan. And I’ve already not been so loyal here as I was with the last game.

I’m fairly sure I spend more time in Archeage currently than here. I may or may not look into BDO, and I’m definitely keeping an eye on EQN. There are lots of things I really dislike about AA, but it also has some really strong things going for it. Things that have opened by eyes about so much that GW2 is missing (and it was already missing enough for me to have given AA a second thought to begin with). I’ve had experiences in there that I’ve never had in GW2 and don’t expect I ever will.

Does this mean I’ve “quit” GW2? No. I still play (mostly only when updates come out). But the fact is it’s become a secondary game for me, and it wasn’t supposed to. GW1 was never secondary for me and I didn’t go into this intending it to be. I don’t love AA, but do have a huge appreciation for certain things it has. I think I might love EQN someday, only time will tell. But the point is, if Anet was doing their job (in my eyes), an old loyalist like me shouldn’t have much reason to care what else is out there. The competition, more and more, is offering things that Anet is unable or unwilling to, and I feel it’s catching up to them.

I highly doubt they are bringing in new players at a faster rate than they are disillusioning old ones (again that doesn’t necessarily mean “quitting”). I really think they need to get dialed in on what people want, and make it happen in a timely fashion. They’ve wasted far too much time kittening around giving the impression that they’re all over the place, no focus, no vision, just treading water trying to figure out what to do next.

I wish they would do some serious polling and actually ask us what we want, determine what the most popular things are, and DO them in order of popularity. Stop the silence and help us help you. Let’s turn this into something we’re eager to sell our friends on again.

tigirius.9014:

…mounts…

By all means, please leave.

Kartel.2561:

-snip-

I wish they would do some serious polling and actually ask us what we want, determine what the most popular things are, and DO them in order of popularity. Stop the silence and help us help you. Let’s turn this into something we’re eager to sell our friends on again.

It’s understandable as to what you said. Yes there are certain things that are lacking in GW2. And I agree the competition is catching up. By offering the things that GW2 is not offering. To point something out though. It is not advisable to have a poll on what players want. Many people wanted raids. Chris Whiteside started a CDI thread on it. It broke down after a few pages – ruining it for everyone else. The exact opposite to the CDI on guild halls. Where constructive posts were written through out.

I wish ANET would actually ignore players and deliver the game THEY want to give us. That way, there are no unreasonable expectations and demands from people that think the game should be based on their own personal vision. After two years, I would have hoped the nonsense of “This is what I think and Anet doesn’t do it” should have subsided. The fact it is not leads me to think the only failure here is Anet not being honest and telling players THEY develop the game according to THEIR vision, not ours. The people that think Anet have ‘strayed’ from whatever can’t leave soon enough.

Obtena.7952:

I wish ANET would actually ignore players and deliver the game THEY want to give us. That way, there are no unreasonable expectations and demands from people that think the game should be based on their own personal vision. After two years, I would have hoped the nonsense of “This is what I think and Anet doesn’t do it” should have subsided. The fact it is not leads me to think the only failure here is Anet not being honest and telling players THEY develop the game according to THEIR vision, not ours. The people that think Anet have ‘strayed’ from whatever can’t leave soon enough.

I want Anet to give us the game that Anet wants to give us!

What now? you can’t agree to disagree to agree based on your perpective! Its a time paradox! you are dooooooooomed! hahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!

Watching until the end of 2015.

Me 2 for a whole hour every 2 weeks until an expansion comes along or Anet is dead and buried.

What a lot of people don’t seem to get is that we need to look at the details closely before coming to a conclusion. If housing was the problem, WoW would be going down in flames as we speak as the Garrison system is a form of housing, obviously that’s not the case

WoW’s revenue is 10x what GW2 is – maybe more then that. They can afford to spend far more on development. When smaller games cave into ‘popular demand’ for expensive but rarely used features – you have a problem.

A friend of mine really liked Wildstar housing – her house was featured on one of their videos even. She doesn’t play Wildstar anymore. It’s an opportunity cost issue.

Its not – does this feature kill the game – of course not. Is does this feature get people to subscribe and does it keep them subscribed. If you have only 5 million dollars for development each year – how do you spend it?

I think honestly the living story isn’t far from that answer.. You get people to log in again and check things out – and doing all the achievements can take a chunk of time. It’s pretty smart.

The guys over at Blizzard have money coming out of their eyeballs – they can make a whole expansion about Panda’s and just say ‘my bad.’

sorudo.9054:

and so what if it’s black desert, it at least has the things Anet promised ppl and looking good doing it.
my only grip is open PvP but i am sure they’ll make a flag system for that, no game like that survives for long with open PvP without lock.

Pretty sure there won’t be a flag system, any more than there was one in Archeage. That game is designed around PvP, not PvE.

The grass is always greener on the pasture of an MMO that has little released beyond a feature list…

Where many other MMOs shine – seamless world without those rather tiny zones (and strong player limits), weather effects a day/nicht cycle with moon and sun etc. really would help the immersion of this game. It’s lacking a lot of immersion. That Black Desert korea grinder has a lot of immersion, it’s quite impressive, similar to Skyrim. It would be nice if we see more immersion in GW2.

Vayne.8563:

sorudo.9054:

and so what if it’s black desert, it at least has the things Anet promised ppl and looking good doing it.
my only grip is open PvP but i am sure they’ll make a flag system for that, no game like that survives for long with open PvP without lock.

Pretty sure there won’t be a flag system, any more than there was one in Archeage. That game is designed around PvP, not PvE.

i have never bin killed by a player in AA, i have no idea what you’re talking about.

wasted.6817:

Yea, the NA/EU publisher for Black Desert was announced. Congrats. xP

#Update
Apparently, the information we got from PA is wrong. Daum just told us that 2016 is still the scheduled year for the release.

Whoa… GG….

ima kongkittenninja.3052:

wasted.6817:

Yea, the NA/EU publisher for Black Desert was announced. Congrats. xP

#Update
Apparently, the information we got from PA is wrong. Daum just told us that 2016 is still the scheduled year for the release.

Whoa… GG….

Which is why OP said end of 2015.

Well for me personally the end will be if they fail to deliver any content i would deem my time worthy. When LS season 2 ends.

Im done with giving them more time to think about how they can make more money.
Because right now i feel the game is in a financial crisis. Release in China didnt go as good as planned. The new player experience is something created to get more people into the game instead of adding in content for veterans. And the gemstore seems to still be updated when the game itself is dying, (Empty WvW because it has never gotten any decent update), (in any zone except 80 zones there is literally almost noone left who just started out, so trying to immerse myself in a world wich is run by NPC’s is just no fun. even with the megaservers….. go figure….) (Content made to be easy wilst abandoning almost the entire community who plays this game for more then 10 minutes a day and throw them the farming stick).

After the release in China in my personal opinion there has been nothing of importance added to the game at all. Nothing.

Ive been waiting since China release for new good content. And i feel its finally time if there isnt something big before/during the LS2 end, that ive given them enough time to ponder on what to do with the game.

If wintersday/newyears/season finale is good enough wich keeps me actually playing for a longer amount of time then those first 2 days after release im already happy.

With playing i mean playing, not farming, not grinding, not press 1 button win to get X reward, not do LS2 over and over again. Not achievement hunting. playing

If gw2 doesnt pull through to me ill pull the plug and will just stop MMO’s alltogether untill EQN/Star citizen.

sorudo.9054:

Vayne.8563:

sorudo.9054:

and so what if it’s black desert, it at least has the things Anet promised ppl and looking good doing it.
my only grip is open PvP but i am sure they’ll make a flag system for that, no game like that survives for long with open PvP without lock.

Pretty sure there won’t be a flag system, any more than there was one in Archeage. That game is designed around PvP, not PvE.

i have never bin killed by a player in AA, i have no idea what you’re talking about.

Possibly because you’re the last person left playing it. Both my sons have asked for and received refunds for example, due to the terrible management of the game. People think Guild Wars 2 has issues with management, they should be forced to play Archeage for a while.

What I’m talking about is that in Archeage, you can’t flag off PvP. That is to say once you’re out of the level 30 area, you’re a target. Hell even allies can attack you.

One full year? Probably too early to ask for all your gold…

Vayne.8563:

Hell even allies can attack you.

Heh, imagine friendly fire in GW2. Or in Guild Wars, with the henchies of doom.

“Yay, we won! We —”

Suddenly, BOOM! BOOM BOOM!

“Dagnabbit, Orion! Not again!”

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Hell even allies can attack you.

Heh, imagine friendly fire in GW2. Or in Guild Wars, with the henchies of doom.

“Yay, we won! We —”

Suddenly, BOOM! BOOM BOOM!

“Dagnabbit, Orion! Not again!”

Imagine what the NPCs would do to us. People hate NPCs now. lol

Edit: I should clarify. There is no friendly fire in Archeage, but you can choose to attack people in your own faction.

I love it when people post like their computer is only capable of having one MMO game installed on it at a time.

Real Gamers don’t need a development team to keep them happy. Real Gamers are playing several games at once and spending the most time and money in the game they currently enjoy the most. There’s no need make elitist demands when you’re always content.