Guild Wars 2

Aeolus.3615:

zealex.9410:

Aeolus.3615:

balance updates has proven that this is not a game worth spending a dim.

oh you mean the updates tha made more classes viable dps’ except from ele and condi ranger?

condi ranger dont need more damage its already a good conid burst, nor elementalist is in need of more damage, still they didnt adressed what needs to be adressed.

When ic some one saying viable dps i imagine that person screamming “i want to be carried by dps”.

no you can run raids with guardians you can run them with dd you can run it with engis and with the 2 you listed other than the rev necro which should be adressed the rest of the classes can see play with no issue.

Aeolus.3615:

zealex.9410:

Aeolus.3615:

balance updates has proven that this is not a game worth spending a dim.

oh you mean the updates tha made more classes viable dps’ except from ele and condi ranger?

condi ranger dont need more damage its already a good conid burst, nor elementalist is in need of more damage, still they didnt adressed what needs to be adressed.

When ic some one saying viable dps i imagine that person screamming “i want to be carried by dps”.

Have you ever really heard someone scream that they want to be carried by dps (whatever that means) or is it all just imagining? That doesn’t exactly sound like something worth screaming.

Skittish.4539:

Aeolus.3615:

zealex.9410:

Aeolus.3615:

balance updates has proven that this is not a game worth spending a dim.

oh you mean the updates tha made more classes viable dps’ except from ele and condi ranger?

condi ranger dont need more damage its already a good conid burst, nor elementalist is in need of more damage, still they didnt adressed what needs to be adressed.

When ic some one saying viable dps i imagine that person screamming “i want to be carried by dps”.

Have you ever really heard someone scream that they want to be carried by dps (whatever that means) or is it all just imagining? That doesn’t exactly sound like something worth screaming.

But at the end it is what players want, and what i see what Anet is giving to them since HoT introduction.
The balance updates overall are very weak and rarelly adress to something that needs to be fixed of changed.

Aeolus.3615:

Skittish.4539:

Aeolus.3615:

zealex.9410:

Aeolus.3615:

balance updates has proven that this is not a game worth spending a dim.

oh you mean the updates tha made more classes viable dps’ except from ele and condi ranger?

condi ranger dont need more damage its already a good conid burst, nor elementalist is in need of more damage, still they didnt adressed what needs to be adressed.

When ic some one saying viable dps i imagine that person screamming “i want to be carried by dps”.

Have you ever really heard someone scream that they want to be carried by dps (whatever that means) or is it all just imagining? That doesn’t exactly sound like something worth screaming.

But at the end it is what players want, and what i see what Anet is giving to them since HoT introduction.

so you are saying that nerfing powerhouse classes like condi ranger or ele hence allowing more classes to be played in their role is bad and hows that connected with ppl asking to be carried?

@ zealex

I meant naturally Anets income stability, because a single weak gemstore won’t guarantee for this game enough income stability.
As long Anet has only the gemstore, they will never have the insurance, that the gemstore makes at the end of the month enough income, to cover all of the games costs, or make even at all any profit.
With the instabile gemstore as only source of income in the time where they work in the background on an expansion, is every month a risk of losing money if the gemstore isn’t strong enough to cover at least all of the games fix costs.
And if you get to hear from devs them also multiple times, that they had for somethign not enough ressources, or not enough time to get somethign done in time before the next greater patch gets released, then this is for me personalyl another great sign for it, that the gemstore is too weak and doesn’t run good enough right now for this always growing game, whose fix costs never become smaller, but rather constantly bigger as well so bigger the game becomes.

The gemstore needs help to reduce pressure from it and to stabilize Anets income in times, where they work on larger projects like expansions which brigns them currently into the problem of not having enough people in their staff to do multiple greater projects at the same time, because too many of the developers are needed just only for the expansions, so that other important areas suffer meanwhile from the lack of developers that either have not enough time, or not enough ressources in regard of budget money to work on other very important things as well, while the focus is on the expansion in the background.

With more income stability of optional sub fees can be made sure, that Anet can expand better and react better to situations, where it is important and needed to work at multiple greater things at the same time, or to give certain things more time, so that they can get done in a bigger more appropriate and proper way, than these useless skill&trait number change balance patches, which are just drops of water on a too hot stone, because these kinds of changes are obsolete, as long all the rest of the games conbat system gets permanently ignored, most likely due to the fact, that Anet simply has not the ressources they would need to have, to be able to make proper balance changes, that have more depth, than only number changes.

Something, where optional Premium Accounts could help out, people need to give the idea just a chance, because you will never know, if they were maybe not from begin on the right decision, if you just don’t give them at least a chance.
However, in the end its just another of many decisions, that Anet has to make that nobody of us here can influence.
We can only as usual discuss over such things and smash each others heads in over our different opinions xD

In my opinion is staying on the gemstore as only income method too unsafe and expansions take simply too long, until they bring Anet money in.

Its like betting on horse races and always betting only onto 1 horse – all or nothing.
When it would be safer to bet onto 2 horses basically, raising your chances of winning, but also lowering your chances of losing too much if not all your bets should be succesful, so you won’t likely lose directly everything.
Thats why I’m convinced that on the long run will be a hybrid payment model better for the game to make sure, that ANet will have more income stability, while not losing the advantage of the gemstore of eventually making income bursts, if they added maybe something awesome to the gemstore, that sells like hot cakes.
But these kinds of sales are no guaranteed thing, which is why a stabile optional fee income can be very handy for Anet to ensure that if they gemstore stuff should flop, that their incomes stay stabile enough to not totally break in dramatically.

zealex.9410:

stop acting like optional subscriltion is the mother of all issues if they handle it correctly and keep it optional and not something that alienates the player who doesnt use it i dont find a reason for it to nost exist esp now that thentop mmos have some kind of subscription whether its optional or mandatory. Also anet has been really careful on what could give advantage to someone and they have not added it into the game what makes you think an optional subscription could bring that.

Even when such subscriptions start out benevolent, they don’t last that way. If implemented it will be one of the worst things ANet could do for the game.

OriOri.8724:

zealex.9410:

stop acting like optional subscriltion is the mother of all issues if they handle it correctly and keep it optional and not something that alienates the player who doesnt use it i dont find a reason for it to nost exist esp now that thentop mmos have some kind of subscription whether its optional or mandatory. Also anet has been really careful on what could give advantage to someone and they have not added it into the game what makes you think an optional subscription could bring that.

Even when such subscriptions start out benevolent, they don’t last that way. If implemented it will be one of the worst things ANet could do for the game.

U got proof of this? because i can think of 3 games that have a subscription model either optional or mandatory which are the biggest mmos at this time.

“Dueling” was another thing that was asked for a lot. Yet, it already exists in a way with Costume Brawl. Therefore, wouldn’t endless “roleplay” versions, like generic Nightmare Court, Human Separatist, Charr Renegade, Son of Svanir, Inquest, White Mantle, etc., to brawl with skins and moves that already exist somewhere, be something?

zealex.9410:

Aeolus.3615:

Skittish.4539:

Aeolus.3615:

zealex.9410:

Aeolus.3615:

balance updates has proven that this is not a game worth spending a dim.

oh you mean the updates tha made more classes viable dps’ except from ele and condi ranger?

condi ranger dont need more damage its already a good conid burst, nor elementalist is in need of more damage, still they didnt adressed what needs to be adressed.

When ic some one saying viable dps i imagine that person screamming “i want to be carried by dps”.

Have you ever really heard someone scream that they want to be carried by dps (whatever that means) or is it all just imagining? That doesn’t exactly sound like something worth screaming.

But at the end it is what players want, and what i see what Anet is giving to them since HoT introduction.

so you are saying that nerfing powerhouse classes like condi ranger or ele hence allowing more classes to be played in their role is bad and hows that connected with ppl asking to be carried?

I never talked about nerfing those specs, i said they are fine with their damage output, they dont need buffs besides on some weapons underused.
Making more classes and roles played for players tranlates as in “damage output” every one hopes for their favourite weapon hit the top 1 damage.

Orpheal.8263:

@ zealex

I meant naturally Anets income stability, because a single weak gemstore won’t guarantee for this game enough income stability.
As long Anet has only the gemstore, they will never have the insurance, that the gemstore makes at the end of the month enough income, to cover all of the games costs, or make even at all any profit.
With the instabile gemstore as only source of income in the time where they work in the background on an expansion, is every month a risk of losing money if the gemstore isn’t strong enough to cover at least all of the games fix costs.
And if you get to hear from devs them also multiple times, that they had for somethign not enough ressources, or not enough time to get somethign done in time before the next greater patch gets released, then this is for me personalyl another great sign for it, that the gemstore is too weak and doesn’t run good enough right now for this always growing game, whose fix costs never become smaller, but rather constantly bigger as well so bigger the game becomes.

The gemstore needs help to reduce pressure from it and to stabilize Anets income in times, where they work on larger projects like expansions which brigns them currently into the problem of not having enough people in their staff to do multiple greater projects at the same time, because too many of the developers are needed just only for the expansions, so that other important areas suffer meanwhile from the lack of developers that either have not enough time, or not enough ressources in regard of budget money to work on other very important things as well, while the focus is on the expansion in the background.

With more income stability of optional sub fees can be made sure, that Anet can expand better and react better to situations, where it is important and needed to work at multiple greater things at the same time, or to give certain things more time, so that they can get done in a bigger more appropriate and proper way, than these useless skill&trait number change balance patches, which are just drops of water on a too hot stone, because these kinds of changes are obsolete, as long all the rest of the games conbat system gets permanently ignored, most likely due to the fact, that Anet simply has not the ressources they would need to have, to be able to make proper balance changes, that have more depth, than only number changes.

Something, where optional Premium Accounts could help out, people need to give the idea just a chance, because you will never know, if they were maybe not from begin on the right decision, if you just don’t give them at least a chance.
However, in the end its just another of many decisions, that Anet has to make that nobody of us here can influence.
We can only as usual discuss over such things and smash each others heads in over our different opinions xD

In my opinion is staying on the gemstore as only income method too unsafe and expansions take simply too long, until they bring Anet money in.

Its like betting on horse races and always betting only onto 1 horse – all or nothing.
When it would be safer to bet onto 2 horses basically, raising your chances of winning, but also lowering your chances of losing too much if not all your bets should be succesful, so you won’t likely lose directly everything.
Thats why I’m convinced that on the long run will be a hybrid payment model better for the game to make sure, that ANet will have more income stability, while not losing the advantage of the gemstore of eventually making income bursts, if they added maybe something awesome to the gemstore, that sells like hot cakes.
But these kinds of sales are no guaranteed thing, which is why a stabile optional fee income can be very handy for Anet to ensure that if they gemstore stuff should flop, that their incomes stay stabile enough to not totally break in dramatically.

there are alot of decisions that anet made that if done differently could greatly provide anet with the resources. For one i always thought that what eso did where its lw ep updates are payed dlc which you get acess to withoutpaying for each one with the optional subscription. All in all gw2 gives many things for free and the gemstore for the majority of ppl is simply not holding anything of value for them. I mean hell tje ability to buy items from the gemstory with gold is one of the worst things anet made imho because the game is not a sub bassed game somekne who has bought the game can gk on not spend.any more realmoney and have everything he wants from the gemstore.

zealex.9410:

OriOri.8724:

zealex.9410:

stop acting like optional subscriltion is the mother of all issues if they handle it correctly and keep it optional and not something that alienates the player who doesnt use it i dont find a reason for it to nost exist esp now that thentop mmos have some kind of subscription whether its optional or mandatory. Also anet has been really careful on what could give advantage to someone and they have not added it into the game what makes you think an optional subscription could bring that.

Even when such subscriptions start out benevolent, they don’t last that way. If implemented it will be one of the worst things ANet could do for the game.

U got proof of this? because i can think of 3 games that have a subscription model either optional or mandatory which are the biggest mmos at this time.

How many of them started off with no subscription at all?

It’s one thing to go from mandatory subscription to optional subscription or starting off with an optional subscription.

But there would be major backlash if they added an optional subscription to this game at this point. Like there was when Ascended was added. How damaging to the game it would be would depend on what was in it and how much it was.

Aeolus.3615:

zealex.9410:

Aeolus.3615:

Skittish.4539:

Aeolus.3615:

zealex.9410:

Aeolus.3615:

balance updates has proven that this is not a game worth spending a dim.

oh you mean the updates tha made more classes viable dps’ except from ele and condi ranger?

condi ranger dont need more damage its already a good conid burst, nor elementalist is in need of more damage, still they didnt adressed what needs to be adressed.

When ic some one saying viable dps i imagine that person screamming “i want to be carried by dps”.

Have you ever really heard someone scream that they want to be carried by dps (whatever that means) or is it all just imagining? That doesn’t exactly sound like something worth screaming.

But at the end it is what players want, and what i see what Anet is giving to them since HoT introduction.

so you are saying that nerfing powerhouse classes like condi ranger or ele hence allowing more classes to be played in their role is bad and hows that connected with ppl asking to be carried?

I never talked about nerfing those specs, i said they are fine with their damage output, they dont need buffs besides on some weapons underused.
Making more classes and roles played for players tranlates as in “damage output” every one hopes for their favourite weapon hit the top 1 damage.

well not all classes are number 1 dmg because some classes get more dmg because they have a selfish play style few if any group buffs in exchange for higher dps than classes that do have them.

The issue is that you can bring 2 of each must have classes and the have these selfish dps’ since theres no need for more buffs. The true fix to the game would be to remove power (not the boon) from classes like warrior druid and chrono and make boon stacking might stacking and up time quickness etc a group job rather than a class job.

Oh and remove the 150 buffs because a class getting accepted because it happens to have a trait that passively gives a huge power increae compaire to others who get… ferocity or lifesteal its bad design of the past were the content was 5 man and would hurt no one to see them go or at least make the personal buffs and not group buffs.

Seera.5916:

zealex.9410:

OriOri.8724:

zealex.9410:

stop acting like optional subscriltion is the mother of all issues if they handle it correctly and keep it optional and not something that alienates the player who doesnt use it i dont find a reason for it to nost exist esp now that thentop mmos have some kind of subscription whether its optional or mandatory. Also anet has been really careful on what could give advantage to someone and they have not added it into the game what makes you think an optional subscription could bring that.

Even when such subscriptions start out benevolent, they don’t last that way. If implemented it will be one of the worst things ANet could do for the game.

U got proof of this? because i can think of 3 games that have a subscription model either optional or mandatory which are the biggest mmos at this time.

How many of them started off with no subscription at all?

It’s one thing to go from mandatory subscription to optional subscription or starting off with an optional subscription.

But there would be major backlash if they added an optional subscription to this game at this point. Like there was when Ascended was added. How damaging to the game it would be would depend on what was in it and how much it was.

u gotta thing long term tho and subscription doesnt have to be the only option anet can simply start giving less thing for free less free updates etc im not talking about raids fractals and such but if lw updates were b2p by default that would make a strong income for anet.

Optional subscriptions are problematic with a game that started with no subscription. You need to come up with a list of benefits that aren’t “pay 2 win” that wouldn’t annoy those who choose not to take part of it yet attractive enough for those to part with X dollars/euros/pounds a month.

I’m more familiar with MMOs that went from sub to F2P with an optional sub than those that didn’t. The ones I know offer a discount to the cash shop, xp boost, free in game services, think waypoints in our case, and maybe a stipend of something such as a BL key. The most extreme would be access to locked LW episodes while “subbed” or access to gem store items currently not in the gem shop.

The big trick is making sure this is a net positive in income AND it doesn’t drive players away since they can’t spend gems if they left the game over a perceived “cash grab”. I think it would be a tight rope in a wind storm that ANet won’t be willing to consider.

Behellagh.1468:

Optional subscriptions are problematic with a game that started with no subscription. You need to come up with a list of benefits that aren’t “pay 2 win” that wouldn’t annoy those who choose not to take part of it yet attractive enough for those to part with X dollars/euros/pounds a month.

I’m more familiar with MMOs that went from sub to F2P with an optional sub than those that didn’t. The ones I know offer a discount to the cash shop, xp boost, free in game services, think waypoints in our case, and maybe a stipend of something such as a BL key. The most extreme would be access to locked LW episodes while “subbed” or access to gem store items currently not in the gem shop.

The big trick is making sure this is a net positive in income AND it doesn’t drive players away since they can’t spend gems if they left the game over a perceived “cash grab”. I think it would be a tight rope in a wind storm that ANet won’t be willing to consider.

Its a circle tho anet wont take the risk they remain with the current resources they do as much as they are able ppl complain that it wasnt enough even tho it was a free update for a game that they payed once to get access to and then ppl quit complaining that the game is crao and that the devs dont care.

zealex.9410:

Seera.5916:

zealex.9410:

OriOri.8724:

zealex.9410:

stop acting like optional subscriltion is the mother of all issues if they handle it correctly and keep it optional and not something that alienates the player who doesnt use it i dont find a reason for it to nost exist esp now that thentop mmos have some kind of subscription whether its optional or mandatory. Also anet has been really careful on what could give advantage to someone and they have not added it into the game what makes you think an optional subscription could bring that.

Even when such subscriptions start out benevolent, they don’t last that way. If implemented it will be one of the worst things ANet could do for the game.

U got proof of this? because i can think of 3 games that have a subscription model either optional or mandatory which are the biggest mmos at this time.

How many of them started off with no subscription at all?

It’s one thing to go from mandatory subscription to optional subscription or starting off with an optional subscription.

But there would be major backlash if they added an optional subscription to this game at this point. Like there was when Ascended was added. How damaging to the game it would be would depend on what was in it and how much it was.

u gotta thing long term tho and subscription doesnt have to be the only option anet can simply start giving less thing for free less free updates etc im not talking about raids fractals and such but if lw updates were b2p by default that would make a strong income for anet.

That’s the thing. We currently get everything for just the price of the base game/expansion pack. To now go and say that you now have to pay for the future whatever, would cause a pretty negative backlash.

Because we’ve come to expect content to be given out for free or included with the price of the base game or expansion pack. And when expectations are not met, problems come up.

The game survived the Ascended armor backlash just fine. So I’m not saying that adding an optional subscription or changing LW seasons to be paid DLC for all would be a game ending decision. I don’t have the information to make that call. I just know that it would cause backlash on the scale of the Ascended armor being added to the game backlash.

Seera.5916:

That’s the thing. We currently get everything for just the price of the base game/expansion pack. To now go and say that you now have to pay for the future whatever, would cause a pretty negative backlash.

Because we’ve come to expect content to be given out for free or included with the price of the base game or expansion pack. And when expectations are not met, problems come up.

The game survived the Ascended armor backlash just fine. So I’m not saying that adding an optional subscription or changing LW seasons to be paid DLC for all would be a game ending decision. I don’t have the information to make that call. I just know that it would cause backlash on the scale of the Ascended armor being added to the game backlash.

Well it took ANet nine months for ascended weapons to arrive and over a year for ascended armor from when they first told us about ascended quality. That provided a lot of cool off time for the table flippers. LW seasons are already semi paid DLC if you weren’t around for it. But I see Season 3 being a part of HoT, even though ANet doesn’t say it.

I don’t think an optional sub would be a net positive as I think it will alienate players and loss of income from those will be greater than that from those who would sign up for such a plan.

zealex.9410:

OriOri.8724:

zealex.9410:

stop acting like optional subscriltion is the mother of all issues if they handle it correctly and keep it optional and not something that alienates the player who doesnt use it i dont find a reason for it to nost exist esp now that thentop mmos have some kind of subscription whether its optional or mandatory. Also anet has been really careful on what could give advantage to someone and they have not added it into the game what makes you think an optional subscription could bring that.

Even when such subscriptions start out benevolent, they don’t last that way. If implemented it will be one of the worst things ANet could do for the game.

U got proof of this? because i can think of 3 games that have a subscription model either optional or mandatory which are the biggest mmos at this time.

Subscription models are different than the VIP package that was discussed in this thread. Not to mention that a mandatory subscription is not at all relevant to the discussion, so I don’t know why you are bringing it up as an argument.

zealex.9410:

there are alot of decisions that anet made that if done differently could greatly provide anet with the resources. For one i always thought that what eso did where its lw ep updates are payed dlc which you get acess to withoutpaying for each one with the optional subscription. All in all gw2 gives many things for free and the gemstore for the majority of ppl is simply not holding anything of value for them. I mean hell tje ability to buy items from the gemstory with gold is one of the worst things anet made imho because the game is not a sub bassed game somekne who has bought the game can gk on not spend.any more realmoney and have everything he wants from the gemstore.

The gems that people buy with gold are first bought with real money.

There is a gem pool and a gold pool. Both the gems and gold are put in the pools by the players. The value of the gems is calculated by the computer based on the ratio of the gold to gem in the pools.

Player A buys gems with real money. He puts these gems in the gem pool and draws out gold from the gold pool. Player B puts gold in the gold pool and draws out gems from the gem pool.

The reason why gem/gold prices fluctuate is because people are buying gems with real money and selling those gems for gold and the price fluctuates depending on whether or not more there are more gems than gold in the 2 pools.

The value of this system is not only can people buy gems with gold but it cuts out the gold sellers as the players can safely buy gold in game with this system.

I think if this is really important to you then you should start throwing large sums of cash at Anet. Whatever setup you think you may somehow get that will give you an advantage in anything at all is a pipe dream.

This is a business, first, last and always. Decisions will be made by devs, corporate leaders and shareholders. Not by the players, likely ever.

The money is still a good idea, if your into donating a lot, do it. The reward is more of what they want the game to be.

Seera.5916:

zealex.9410:

Seera.5916:

zealex.9410:

OriOri.8724:

zealex.9410:

stop acting like optional subscriltion is the mother of all issues if they handle it correctly and keep it optional and not something that alienates the player who doesnt use it i dont find a reason for it to nost exist esp now that thentop mmos have some kind of subscription whether its optional or mandatory. Also anet has been really careful on what could give advantage to someone and they have not added it into the game what makes you think an optional subscription could bring that.

Even when such subscriptions start out benevolent, they don’t last that way. If implemented it will be one of the worst things ANet could do for the game.

U got proof of this? because i can think of 3 games that have a subscription model either optional or mandatory which are the biggest mmos at this time.

How many of them started off with no subscription at all?

It’s one thing to go from mandatory subscription to optional subscription or starting off with an optional subscription.

But there would be major backlash if they added an optional subscription to this game at this point. Like there was when Ascended was added. How damaging to the game it would be would depend on what was in it and how much it was.

u gotta thing long term tho and subscription doesnt have to be the only option anet can simply start giving less thing for free less free updates etc im not talking about raids fractals and such but if lw updates were b2p by default that would make a strong income for anet.

That’s the thing. We currently get everything for just the price of the base game/expansion pack. To now go and say that you now have to pay for the future whatever, would cause a pretty negative backlash.

Because we’ve come to expect content to be given out for free or included with the price of the base game or expansion pack. And when expectations are not met, problems come up.

The game survived the Ascended armor backlash just fine. So I’m not saying that adding an optional subscription or changing LW seasons to be paid DLC for all would be a game ending decision. I don’t have the information to make that call. I just know that it would cause backlash on the scale of the Ascended armor being added to the game backlash.

and like the asc armor backlash the game could possibly survive also this backlash

Just a flesh wound.3589:

zealex.9410:

there are alot of decisions that anet made that if done differently could greatly provide anet with the resources. For one i always thought that what eso did where its lw ep updates are payed dlc which you get acess to withoutpaying for each one with the optional subscription. All in all gw2 gives many things for free and the gemstore for the majority of ppl is simply not holding anything of value for them. I mean hell tje ability to buy items from the gemstory with gold is one of the worst things anet made imho because the game is not a sub bassed game somekne who has bought the game can gk on not spend.any more realmoney and have everything he wants from the gemstore.

The gems that people buy with gold are first bought with real money.

There is a gem pool and a gold pool. Both the gems and gold are put in the pools by the players. The value of the gems is calculated by the computer based on the ratio of the gold to gem in the pools.

Player A buys gems with real money. He puts these gems in the gem pool and draws out gold from the gold pool. Player B puts gold in the gold pool and draws out gems from the gem pool.

The reason why gem/gold prices fluctuate is because people are buying gems with real money and selling those gems for gold and the price fluctuates depending on whether or not more there are more gems than gold in the 2 pools.

The value of this system is not only can people buy gems with gold but it cuts out the gold sellers as the players can safely buy gold in game with this system.

what i dont understand abou this method is how i i individually exchange x amount of gold for 40p gems to buy one thing how does that make a profit for arena net since in no place of the process did i pay money for it to happen or anyone else for me

OriOri.8724:

zealex.9410:

OriOri.8724:

zealex.9410:

stop acting like optional subscriltion is the mother of all issues if they handle it correctly and keep it optional and not something that alienates the player who doesnt use it i dont find a reason for it to nost exist esp now that thentop mmos have some kind of subscription whether its optional or mandatory. Also anet has been really careful on what could give advantage to someone and they have not added it into the game what makes you think an optional subscription could bring that.

Even when such subscriptions start out benevolent, they don’t last that way. If implemented it will be one of the worst things ANet could do for the game.

U got proof of this? because i can think of 3 games that have a subscription model either optional or mandatory which are the biggest mmos at this time.

Subscription models are different than the VIP package that was discussed in this thread. Not to mention that a mandatory subscription is not at all relevant to the discussion, so I don’t know why you are bringing it up as an argument.

im not bringng up mandatory subscription as an ae
rguement the vip package got turned into a subscription of sort for some here and hence we discussed how a subscription could coexist in the game.

most of what you suggest would be pay to win
especially the ingame currency part.
Laurels are a driving force in crafting ascended and legendary gear.
Given, you can get the resource without spending money, but its pushing the pay to win boundary a little too hard for my liking.

Map completion is also fine, but then it shouldn’t game with a gift of exploration, as that’s tied to legendary crafting.

And race changes simply aren’t possible, see the other thousand threads on this matter if you want the details

Is there any comprehensive information about ANet’s financial situation other than that quarterly report? I did read it, but was none the wiser after doing so.

@Topic: As long as the optional subscription stays optional and brings no benefit over non-premium users apart from having flashier moves, emotes whatever cosmetic, it would be okay for me.
After all, sure it’s nice to have no monthly subscription but what if ANet demanded a minuscule monthly subscription fee (say, 5 €/$ per month) and gave a monthly 5 €/$‘s worth of gems to the user? In the long run, nobody would have to buy gems anymore… or so it would seem.. But knowing human’s nature, they would not be willing to wait 16 months to buy this or that, instead they would buy more gems to purchase their desired items at once.
ANet would have income stability, the players would not be milked too much at a time and this “€/$ to gems” subscription could be optional as well. Like an optional gems subscription. 5 bucks is no sum that ruins me, so I would be more than willing to pay that for this marvelous game.

I think about it that way: I can buy a game for 60 bucks, play it for 20 hours (and that is considered long) and then toss it into the corner (average modern day game) or I can invest the same 60 bucks as annual investment into a game that has gifted many of you with thousands of hours of joy and fun.

Edit: As an afterthought, this would surely ruin gold economy if gems stay exchangeable. Maybe they should change that.

^If it’s an optional $5/month subscription that only nets one $5 worth of Gems, what’s stopping players from just buying $5 of Gems each month?

I’m afraid I don’t see the incentive, or how it’s any different that what there is already in place.

zealex.9410:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

zealex.9410:

there are alot of decisions that anet made that if done differently could greatly provide anet with the resources. For one i always thought that what eso did where its lw ep updates are payed dlc which you get acess to withoutpaying for each one with the optional subscription. All in all gw2 gives many things for free and the gemstore for the majority of ppl is simply not holding anything of value for them. I mean hell tje ability to buy items from the gemstory with gold is one of the worst things anet made imho because the game is not a sub bassed game somekne who has bought the game can gk on not spend.any more realmoney and have everything he wants from the gemstore.

The gems that people buy with gold are first bought with real money.

There is a gem pool and a gold pool. Both the gems and gold are put in the pools by the players. The value of the gems is calculated by the computer based on the ratio of the gold to gem in the pools.

Player A buys gems with real money. He puts these gems in the gem pool and draws out gold from the gold pool. Player B puts gold in the gold pool and draws out gems from the gem pool.

The reason why gem/gold prices fluctuate is because people are buying gems with real money and selling those gems for gold and the price fluctuates depending on whether or not more there are more gems than gold in the 2 pools.

The value of this system is not only can people buy gems with gold but it cuts out the gold sellers as the players can safely buy gold in game with this system.

what i dont understand abou this method is how i i individually exchange x amount of gold for 40p gems to buy one thing how does that make a profit for arena net since in no place of the process did i pay money for it to happen or anyone else for me

1. Player X gives cash to Anet to get gems. <— Anet profits right here.
2. Player X trades gems to Player Y for gold.
3. Player Y spends gems on things.

zealex.9410:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

zealex.9410:

there are alot of decisions that anet made that if done differently could greatly provide anet with the resources. For one i always thought that what eso did where its lw ep updates are payed dlc which you get acess to withoutpaying for each one with the optional subscription. All in all gw2 gives many things for free and the gemstore for the majority of ppl is simply not holding anything of value for them. I mean hell tje ability to buy items from the gemstory with gold is one of the worst things anet made imho because the game is not a sub bassed game somekne who has bought the game can gk on not spend.any more realmoney and have everything he wants from the gemstore.

The gems that people buy with gold are first bought with real money.

There is a gem pool and a gold pool. Both the gems and gold are put in the pools by the players. The value of the gems is calculated by the computer based on the ratio of the gold to gem in the pools.

Player A buys gems with real money. He puts these gems in the gem pool and draws out gold from the gold pool. Player B puts gold in the gold pool and draws out gems from the gem pool.

The reason why gem/gold prices fluctuate is because people are buying gems with real money and selling those gems for gold and the price fluctuates depending on whether or not more there are more gems than gold in the 2 pools.

The value of this system is not only can people buy gems with gold but it cuts out the gold sellers as the players can safely buy gold in game with this system.

what i dont understand abou this method is how i i individually exchange x amount of gold for 40p gems to buy one thing how does that make a profit for arena net since in no place of the process did i pay money for it to happen or anyone else for me

The gems you bought with gold were originally bought with real money by another player, who then turned around and sold you those gems for your gold.

Player A buys gems with real money.
Player A sells those gems to you in exchange for your gold.

ANet got their money when player A bought the gems.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

zealex.9410:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

zealex.9410:

there are alot of decisions that anet made that if done differently could greatly provide anet with the resources. For one i always thought that what eso did where its lw ep updates are payed dlc which you get acess to withoutpaying for each one with the optional subscription. All in all gw2 gives many things for free and the gemstore for the majority of ppl is simply not holding anything of value for them. I mean hell tje ability to buy items from the gemstory with gold is one of the worst things anet made imho because the game is not a sub bassed game somekne who has bought the game can gk on not spend.any more realmoney and have everything he wants from the gemstore.

The gems that people buy with gold are first bought with real money.

There is a gem pool and a gold pool. Both the gems and gold are put in the pools by the players. The value of the gems is calculated by the computer based on the ratio of the gold to gem in the pools.

Player A buys gems with real money. He puts these gems in the gem pool and draws out gold from the gold pool. Player B puts gold in the gold pool and draws out gems from the gem pool.

The reason why gem/gold prices fluctuate is because people are buying gems with real money and selling those gems for gold and the price fluctuates depending on whether or not more there are more gems than gold in the 2 pools.

The value of this system is not only can people buy gems with gold but it cuts out the gold sellers as the players can safely buy gold in game with this system.

what i dont understand abou this method is how i i individually exchange x amount of gold for 40p gems to buy one thing how does that make a profit for arena net since in no place of the process did i pay money for it to happen or anyone else for me

The gems you bought with gold were originally bought with real money by another player, who then turned around and sold you those gems for your gold.

Player A buys gems with real money.
Player A sells those gems to you in exchange for your gold.

ANet got their money when player A bought the gems.

If that was the case ppl would sell their gens in the tp. I understand that the amount of gold required for x amount of gems is calculated based on how many pll bought gems and turned into gold but that doesnt mean these ppl sold me their gold which i ised to buy gems.

Player B runs fractals every day for a week
Player B collects x gold for the fractal farm
Player B exchanges x gold for y gems (y being affected by the amound of ppl that did the opposite).

Its not the gols that runs around its the ratio from gems to gold and vice versa depending to what ppl do with their rl money.

Player B still didnt pay a single euro for those gems, player B just farmed more or less depending on how many players did the opposite but in the end of the day player B didnt pay a thing from his wallet only his time input.

If you have a proff that what you say stands the id like to see it perhaps it will help me understand how it actually works until then tho this is the way i see the exhange work.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

zealex.9410:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

zealex.9410:

there are alot of decisions that anet made that if done differently could greatly provide anet with the resources. For one i always thought that what eso did where its lw ep updates are payed dlc which you get acess to withoutpaying for each one with the optional subscription. All in all gw2 gives many things for free and the gemstore for the majority of ppl is simply not holding anything of value for them. I mean hell tje ability to buy items from the gemstory with gold is one of the worst things anet made imho because the game is not a sub bassed game somekne who has bought the game can gk on not spend.any more realmoney and have everything he wants from the gemstore.

The gems that people buy with gold are first bought with real money.

There is a gem pool and a gold pool. Both the gems and gold are put in the pools by the players. The value of the gems is calculated by the computer based on the ratio of the gold to gem in the pools.

Player A buys gems with real money. He puts these gems in the gem pool and draws out gold from the gold pool. Player B puts gold in the gold pool and draws out gems from the gem pool.

The reason why gem/gold prices fluctuate is because people are buying gems with real money and selling those gems for gold and the price fluctuates depending on whether or not more there are more gems than gold in the 2 pools.

The value of this system is not only can people buy gems with gold but it cuts out the gold sellers as the players can safely buy gold in game with this system.

what i dont understand abou this method is how i i individually exchange x amount of gold for 40p gems to buy one thing how does that make a profit for arena net since in no place of the process did i pay money for it to happen or anyone else for me

The gems you bought with gold were originally bought with real money by another player, who then turned around and sold you those gems for your gold.

Player A buys gems with real money.
Player A sells those gems to you in exchange for your gold.

ANet got their money when player A bought the gems.

If that was the case ppl would sell their gems in the tp. I understand that the amount of gold required for x amount of gems is calculated based on how many pll bought gems and turned into gold but that doesnt mean these ppl sold me their gold which i used to buy gems.

Player B runs fractals every day for a week
Player B collects x gold for the fractal farm
Player B exchanges x gold for y gems (y being affected by the amound of ppl that did the opposite).

Its not the gols that runs around its the ratio from gems to gold and vice versa depending to what ppl do with their rl money.

Player B still didnt pay a single euro for those gems, player B just farmed more or less depending on how many players did the opposite but in the end of the day player B didnt pay a thing from his wallet only his time input.

If you have a proff that what you say stands the id like to see it perhaps it will help me understand how it actually works until then tho this is the way i see the exhange work and this isnot a good way for ancompany to have a more stable and high income.

zealex.9410:

If that was the case ppl would sell their gems in the tp.

They do. It’s called the Currency Exchange. It’s the portion of the game where gems are sold by players to other players.

To expand what I typed above:

1. Player X gives cash to Anet to get gems. <— Anet profits right here.
2. Player X trades gems to Player Y for gold. <—Anet doesn’t care what happens; they already made profit.
3. Player Y spends gems on things. <—Anet doesn’t care what happens; they already made profit.

Swagger.1459:

-Map completion packs, per character only.

-Sell laurels and various in-game currencies.

-VIP monthly sub with perks.

Hell no.

Greener.6204:

zealex.9410:

If that was the case ppl would sell their gems in the tp.

They do. It’s called the Currency Exchange. It’s the portion of the game where gems are sold by players to other players.

To expand what I typed above:

1. Player X gives cash to Anet to get gems. <— Anet profits right here.
2. Player X trades gems to Player Y for gold. <—Anet doesn’t care what happens; they already made profit.
3. Player Y spends gems on things. <—Anet doesn’t care what happens; they already made profit.

they made profit from 1 person while 2+can benefit from it… aldo read the rest to see how how players dont need the gold of others to get gemstore stuff

Greener.6204:

zealex.9410:

If that was the case ppl would sell their gems in the tp.

They do. It’s called the Currency Exchange. It’s the portion of the game where gems are sold by players to other players.

To expand what I typed above:

1. Player X gives cash to Anet to get gems. <— Anet profits right here.
2. Player X trades gems to Player Y for gold. <—Anet doesn’t care what happens; they already made profit.
3. Player Y spends gems on things. <—Anet doesn’t care what happens; they already made profit.

I don’t think Zealex really understands how currency exchange works.

You are not buying gems from Anet with gold. You are trading directly with other players. That is why the rate and value of gems fluctuates.

The more people buying gems with real money and trading for gold the lower the value of gems.
The more people buying gems with gold the higher the value of gems.

This is shown quite plainly when a highly requested item is released. Take when they re-released the bunny ears for example – The value of gems skyrocketed in price because people were buying gems with gold way more than usual and supply of gems was decreasing making the value of them increase.

It’s very basic Supply and Demand.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

^If it’s an optional $5/month subscription that only nets one $5 worth of Gems, what’s stopping players from just buying $5 of Gems each month?

I’m afraid I don’t see the incentive, or how it’s any different that what there is already in place.

So it’s no disadvantage for the player, but at the same time a gain in income stability for ANet. Win-Win. Or do you buy gems worth 5$ on a regular basis?

Edit: Apart from saving a game that has spent thousands of hours of fun, what more incentive do you need?

You can also get gems from Achievement Points, it’s 400 gems every 5k AP, that’s 1$ per 1k AP.

Also: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2xtjc7/psa_how_gems_work/cp3gd2a/

zealex.9410:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

zealex.9410:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

zealex.9410:

gemstore.

The gems that people buy with gold are first bought with real money.

There is a gem pool and a gold pool. Both the gems and gold are put in the pools by the players. The value of the gems is calculated by the computer based on the ratio of the gold to gem in the pools.

Player A buys gems with real money. He puts these gems in the gem pool and draws out gold from the gold pool. Player B puts gold in the gold pool and draws out gems from the gem pool.

The reason why gem/gold prices fluctuate is because people are buying gems with real money and selling those gems for gold and the price fluctuates depending on whether or not more there are more gems than gold in the 2 pools.

The value of this system is not only can people buy gems with gold but it cuts out the gold sellers as the players can safely buy gold in game with this system.

what i dont understand abou this method is how i i individually exchange x amount of gold for 40p gems to buy one thing how does that make a profit for arena net since in no place of the process did i pay money for it to happen or anyone else for me

The gems you bought with gold were originally bought with real money by another player, who then turned around and sold you those gems for your gold.

Player A buys gems with real money.
Player A sells those gems to you in exchange for your gold.

ANet got their money when player A bought the gems.

If that was the case ppl would sell their gems in the tp. I understand that the amount of gold required for x amount of gems is calculated based on how many pll bought gems and turned into gold but that doesnt mean these ppl sold me their gold which i used to buy gems.

Player B runs fractals every day for a week
Player B collects x gold for the fractal farm
Player B exchanges x gold for y gems (y being affected by the amound of ppl that did the opposite).

Its not the gols that runs around its the ratio from gems to gold and vice versa depending to what ppl do with their rl money.

Player B still didnt pay a single euro for those gems, player B just farmed more or less depending on how many players did the opposite but in the end of the day player B didnt pay a thing from his wallet only his time input.

If you have a proff that what you say stands the id like to see it perhaps it will help me understand how it actually works until then tho this is the way i see the exhange work and this isnot a good way for ancompany to have a more stable and high income.

While player B did not pay any money for gems ANet still made money because the gems were originally bought by player A, who then sold the gems to player B in exchange for player B’s gold. The reason why it’s not a direct trading post trade is because the game is deliberately not set up to do so. It’s set up with the gems <—> gold exchange already described.

From posts discussing the gold/gem exchange.

(John Smith.4610 is the staff economist)

John Smith.4610:

I’m late to the party and haven’t read the thread yet so forgive me for any error.
To clarify:
While a purchase of an object with gems doesn’t indicate a purchase from that person, the gems that are used are from a purchase that somebody made. It is true that the gems in circulation in the currency exchange are purchased by a player and that exchange depends on a player of some sort making a purchase.

A post discussing the pools and how players putting both gold and gems into the pools affect the prices. That is, If more gold is coming into the pool than gems are coming in, then gems become fewer in the pools and become more expensive. When gems become more expensive (worth more gold) then people who want gold will sell their gems.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2xtjc7/psa_how_gems_work/cp3gd2a

(ANet staff economist) Probably John Smith

To be clear. The exchange has a supply of both Gems and Gold. When you trade to the exchange you influence the supply of each. The exchange rate is relative to current supply of each. The price changes geometrically as one pool empties creating a better exchange rate for the low supplied currency. For this reason it’s VERY difficult for the exchange to run out of currency.

When a person pays in-game gold for gems, gems are not created, as they are only created by paying cash for them (or dev commands, I’m sure).

Going between gold and gems, or vice versa, results in a 15% charge just like the TP.

Rawr.9467:

Greener.6204:

zealex.9410:

If that was the case ppl would sell their gems in the tp.

They do. It’s called the Currency Exchange. It’s the portion of the game where gems are sold by players to other players.

To expand what I typed above:

1. Player X gives cash to Anet to get gems. <— Anet profits right here.
2. Player X trades gems to Player Y for gold. <—Anet doesn’t care what happens; they already made profit.
3. Player Y spends gems on things. <—Anet doesn’t care what happens; they already made profit.

I don’t think Zealex really understands how currency exchange works.

This is shown quite plainly when a highly requested item is released. Take when they re-released the bunny ears for example – The value of gems skyrocketed in price because people were buying gems with gold way more than usual and supply of gems was decreasing making the value of them increase.

It’s very basic Supply and Demand.

yes i said that above that when ppl buy gems with gold the ratio of gems to gold also goes down meaning that for x gold you will need more gems compaired to a time where theres no popular release and vice versa correct? My issue with that is that anet will make more profit that way from only ppl that buy gems to turn into gold on a non release date since someone who buys gems to buy stuff directly from the gemstore pays a fixxed price and ppl who exchanged gold for gems for the bunny ears didnt play any real money they indirectly just raised the gems to gold racio right?

Plautze.6290:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

^If it’s an optional $5/month subscription that only nets one $5 worth of Gems, what’s stopping players from just buying $5 of Gems each month?

I’m afraid I don’t see the incentive, or how it’s any different that what there is already in place.

So it’s no disadvantage for the player, but at the same time a gain in income stability for ANet. Win-Win.

Anet spends money/time/resources to create subscription system (lose) to get a small stipend from a subset of players by selling them what they already offer for sale for the same basic price (null).

Non-subscription players perceive themselves as second-class, even if they’re not, causing them to be angry/frustrated/outraged and issues ensue (lose). Player base decreases (lose).

If Anet were to offer subscription payers things which are not currently for sale, they would have to spend money/time/resources developing them (lose). Non-subscribers would correctly demand to be able to buy the new things from the gem store, bringing you right back to the start, where this whole process is pointless.

zealex.9410:

Rawr.9467:

Greener.6204:

zealex.9410:

If that was the case ppl would sell their gems in the tp.

They do. It’s called the Currency Exchange. It’s the portion of the game where gems are sold by players to other players.

To expand what I typed above:

1. Player X gives cash to Anet to get gems. <— Anet profits right here.
2. Player X trades gems to Player Y for gold. <—Anet doesn’t care what happens; they already made profit.
3. Player Y spends gems on things. <—Anet doesn’t care what happens; they already made profit.

I don’t think Zealex really understands how currency exchange works.

This is shown quite plainly when a highly requested item is released. Take when they re-released the bunny ears for example – The value of gems skyrocketed in price because people were buying gems with gold way more than usual and supply of gems was decreasing making the value of them increase.

It’s very basic Supply and Demand.

yes i said that above that when ppl buy gems with gold the ratio of gems to gold also goes down meaning that for x gold you will need more gems compaired to a time where theres no popular release and vice versa correct? My issue with that is that anet will make more profit that way from only ppl that buy gems to turn into gold on a non release date since someone who buys gems to buy stuff directly from the gemstore pays a fixxed price and ppl who exchanged gold for gems for the bunny ears didnt play any real money they indirectly just raised the gems to gold racio right?

Correct, if I purchased gems for gold I gave anet nothing – but those gems came from someone and that person effectively purchased the item instead.

What you also need to keep in mind is that if the gems to gold ratio is attractive, more people will purchase gems to convert directly into gold. That means that anet is making money anyway. So a lot of people purchasing gems with gold entices people that buy gems for gold to purchase gems.

Thus, anet is still making money from people who buy gems with gold as they indirectly encourage people that spend money for gems to buy more gems so they have more liquid gold when the exchange rate is very high.

Take my case for example – I have a good salary but not much time to play every day. I’d rather spend my time doing what I want than grinding for gold. If I need gold I’ll buy gems and convert. If the exchange rate is good I’ll purchase gems to convert even if I don’t need gold as I see it as saving money in the future.

So effectively – even if the person selling gold is not buying gems – I am buying gems and at the end of the day anet makes a profit.

Always keep in mind – if a person doesn’t buy gems with money they likely wouldn’t even if the gold to gems exchange option wasn’t there.

I wonder if the Gems from AP (and old pvp tournaments) are included in the currency exchange or not

[quote=6514955;Just a flesh wound.3589:]

zealex.9410:

Rawr.9467:

Greener.6204:

zealex.9410:

If that was the case ppl would sell their gems in the tp.

They do. It’s called the Currency Exchange. It’s the portion of the game where gems are sold by players to other players.

To expand what I typed above:

1. Player X gives cash to Anet to get gems. <— Anet profits right here.
2. Player X trades gems to Player Y for gold. <—Anet doesn’t care what happens; they already made profit.
3. Player Y spends gems on things. <—Anet doesn’t care what happens; they already made profit.

I don’t think Zealex really understands how currency exchange works.

This is shown quite plainly when a highly requested item is released. Take when they re-released the bunny ears for example – The value of gems skyrocketed in price because people were buying gems with gold way more than usual and supply of gems was decreasing making the value of them increase.

It’s very basic Supply and Demand.

yes i said that above that when ppl buy gems with gold the ratio of gems to gold also goes down meaning that for x gold you will need more gems compaired to a time where theres no popular release and vice versa correct? My issue with that is that anet will make more profit that way from only ppl that buy gems to turn into gold on a non release date since someone who buys gems to buy stuff directly from the gemstore pays a fixxed price and ppl who exchanged gold for gems for the bunny ears didnt play any real money they indirectly just raised the gems to gold racio right?

Maybe if you think of it this way:

ArenaNet profits from more than one kind of currency.

Player X uses rl cash (a currency) to buy Gems. Player X then sells the Gems to you (through the currency exchange) for your time (which some consider worth rl cash) acquiring Gold. ArenaNet profits from the rl cash, but also profits from a well-populated game (that’s you and others that spend their time (another valuable currency) in-game.

i suppose this might be the forum bug so ill reaply my answer later

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

zealex.9410:

Rawr.9467:

Greener.6204:

zealex.9410:

If that was the case ppl would sell their gems in the tp.

They do. It’s called the Currency Exchange. It’s the portion of the game where gems are sold by players to other players.

To expand what I typed above:

1. Player X gives cash to Anet to get gems. <— Anet profits right here.
2. Player X trades gems to Player Y for gold. <—Anet doesn’t care what happens; they already made profit.
3. Player Y spends gems on things. <—Anet doesn’t care what happens; they already made profit.

I don’t think Zealex really understands how currency exchange works.

This is shown quite plainly when a highly requested item is released. Take when they re-released the bunny ears for example – The value of gems skyrocketed in price because people were buying gems with gold way more than usual and supply of gems was decreasing making the value of them increase.

It’s very basic Supply and Demand.

yes i said that above that when ppl buy gems with gold the ratio of gems to gold also goes down meaning that for x gold you will need more gems compaired to a time where theres no popular release and vice versa correct? My issue with that is that anet will make more profit that way from only ppl that buy gems to turn into gold on a non release date since someone who buys gems to buy stuff directly from the gemstore pays a fixxed price and ppl who exchanged gold for gems for the bunny ears didnt play any real money they indirectly just raised the gems to gold racio right?

Maybe if you think of it this way:

ArenaNet profits from more than one kind of currency.

Player X uses rl cash (a currency) to buy Gems. Player X then sells the Gems to you (through the currency exchange) for your time (which some consider worth rl cash) acquiring Gold. ArenaNet profits from the rl cash, but also profits from a well-populated game (that’s you and others that spend their time (another valuable currency) in-game.

yes but in that system wouldn’t having the lw episodes by putchaseable throight the genstore only make more profit for anet since ppl buy with thems and gold mostly gold gem value goes up ppl exchange gems for gold. And anet makes more money which can go to a more content heavy expac as well as more balance patches changes to game modes etc

zealex.9410:

i suppose this might be the forum bug so ill reaply my answer later

To recap. ANet benefits by selling gems to people who want to buy items directly and by selling gems to people who want to buy gold. This exchange cuts out a lot of gold seller profits. ANet saves money this way because fixing gold sellers hacking accounts and stealing new accounts by bank and credit card fraud costs them money both in support costs and also through paying for insurance costs. (The more gold seller fraud costs ANet, the higher their insurance rates).

maddoctor.2738:

I wonder if the Gems from AP (and old pvp tournaments) are included in the currency exchange or not

They can only be “included” if players choose to sell them on the exchange.

zealex.9410:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

zealex.9410:

Rawr.9467:

Greener.6204:

zealex.9410:

If that was the case ppl would sell their gems in the tp.

They do. It’s called the Currency Exchange. It’s the portion of the game where gems are sold by players to other players.

To expand what I typed above:

1. Player X gives cash to Anet to get gems. <— Anet profits right here.
2. Player X trades gems to Player Y for gold. <—Anet doesn’t care what happens; they already made profit.
3. Player Y spends gems on things. <—Anet doesn’t care what happens; they already made profit.

I don’t think Zealex really understands how currency exchange works.

This is shown quite plainly when a highly requested item is released. Take when they re-released the bunny ears for example – The value of gems skyrocketed in price because people were buying gems with gold way more than usual and supply of gems was decreasing making the value of them increase.

It’s very basic Supply and Demand.

yes i said that above that when ppl buy gems with gold the ratio of gems to gold also goes down meaning that for x gold you will need more gems compaired to a time where theres no popular release and vice versa correct? My issue with that is that anet will make more profit that way from only ppl that buy gems to turn into gold on a non release date since someone who buys gems to buy stuff directly from the gemstore pays a fixxed price and ppl who exchanged gold for gems for the bunny ears didnt play any real money they indirectly just raised the gems to gold racio right?

Maybe if you think of it this way:

ArenaNet profits from more than one kind of currency.

Player X uses rl cash (a currency) to buy Gems. Player X then sells the Gems to you (through the currency exchange) for your time (which some consider worth rl cash) acquiring Gold. ArenaNet profits from the rl cash, but also profits from a well-populated game (that’s you and others that spend their time (another valuable currency) in-game.

yes but in that system wouldn’t having the lw episodes by putchaseable throight the genstore only make more profit for anet since ppl buy with thems and gold mostly gold gem value goes up ppl exchange gems for gold. And anet makes more money which can go to a more content heavy expac as well as more balance patches changes to game modes etc

Let’s run through your scenario and we’ll see how everyone ends up at the end.

1. Player A pays 16€ to Anet to get 1280 gems.
2. Player A sells 1280 gems to the Currency Exchange and gets 206 gold.
3. Player B sells 304 gold to the Currency Exchange and gets 1280 gems.
4. Player B buys Living World Season 2 Complete Pack for 1280 gems.

• Anet gains 16€.
• Player A loses 16€ and gains 206 gold.
• Player B loses 304 gold and gains Living World Season 2 Complete Pack.

Gems are just the medium of exchange which allowed all of this to happen.

zealex.9410:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

zealex.9410:

Rawr.9467:

Greener.6204:

zealex.9410:

If that was the case ppl would sell their gems in the tp.

They do. It’s called the Currency Exchange. It’s the portion of the game where gems are sold by players to other players.

To expand what I typed above:

1. Player X gives cash to Anet to get gems. <— Anet profits right here.
2. Player X trades gems to Player Y for gold. <—Anet doesn’t care what happens; they already made profit.
3. Player Y spends gems on things. <—Anet doesn’t care what happens; they already made profit.

I don’t think Zealex really understands how currency exchange works.

This is shown quite plainly when a highly requested item is released. Take when they re-released the bunny ears for example – The value of gems skyrocketed in price because people were buying gems with gold way more than usual and supply of gems was decreasing making the value of them increase.

It’s very basic Supply and Demand.

yes i said that above that when ppl buy gems with gold the ratio of gems to gold also goes down meaning that for x gold you will need more gems compaired to a time where theres no popular release and vice versa correct? My issue with that is that anet will make more profit that way from only ppl that buy gems to turn into gold on a non release date since someone who buys gems to buy stuff directly from the gemstore pays a fixxed price and ppl who exchanged gold for gems for the bunny ears didnt play any real money they indirectly just raised the gems to gold racio right?

Maybe if you think of it this way:

ArenaNet profits from more than one kind of currency.

Player X uses rl cash (a currency) to buy Gems. Player X then sells the Gems to you (through the currency exchange) for your time (which some consider worth rl cash) acquiring Gold. ArenaNet profits from the rl cash, but also profits from a well-populated game (that’s you and others that spend their time (another valuable currency) in-game.

yes but in that system wouldn’t having the lw episodes by putchaseable throight the genstore only make more profit for anet since ppl buy with thems and gold mostly gold gem value goes up ppl exchange gems for gold. And anet makes more money which can go to a more content heavy expac as well as more balance patches changes to game modes etc

No, because changing the Living World content delivery from free (if logged in while active) to purchase-only will cause much bad press and probably lose more income than would be gained. If that’s what you are suggesting.

Besides, I was under the impression you did not believe ArenaNet made any/much profit from players exchanging Gold for Gems (to purchase said Living World releases).

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

zealex.9410:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

zealex.9410:

Rawr.9467:

Greener.6204:

zealex.9410:

If that was the case ppl would sell their gems in the tp.

They do. It’s called the Currency Exchange. It’s the portion of the game where gems are sold by players to other players.

To expand what I typed above:

1. Player X gives cash to Anet to get gems. <— Anet profits right here.
2. Player X trades gems to Player Y for gold. <—Anet doesn’t care what happens; they already made profit.
3. Player Y spends gems on things. <—Anet doesn’t care what happens; they already made profit.

I don’t think Zealex really understands how currency exchange works.

This is shown quite plainly when a highly requested item is released. Take when they re-released the bunny ears for example – The value of gems skyrocketed in price because people were buying gems with gold way more than usual and supply of gems was decreasing making the value of them increase.

It’s very basic Supply and Demand.

yes i said that above that when ppl buy gems with gold the ratio of gems to gold also goes down meaning that for x gold you will need more gems compaired to a time where theres no popular release and vice versa correct? My issue with that is that anet will make more profit that way from only ppl that buy gems to turn into gold on a non release date since someone who buys gems to buy stuff directly from the gemstore pays a fixxed price and ppl who exchanged gold for gems for the bunny ears didnt play any real money they indirectly just raised the gems to gold racio right?

Maybe if you think of it this way:

ArenaNet profits from more than one kind of currency.

Player X uses rl cash (a currency) to buy Gems. Player X then sells the Gems to you (through the currency exchange) for your time (which some consider worth rl cash) acquiring Gold. ArenaNet profits from the rl cash, but also profits from a well-populated game (that’s you and others that spend their time (another valuable currency) in-game.

yes but in that system wouldn’t having the lw episodes by putchaseable throight the genstore only make more profit for anet since ppl buy with thems and gold mostly gold gem value goes up ppl exchange gems for gold. And anet makes more money which can go to a more content heavy expac as well as more balance patches changes to game modes etc

No, because changing the Living World content delivery from free (if logged in while active) to purchase-only will cause much bad press and probably lose more income than would be gained. If that’s what you are suggesting.

Besides, I was under the impression you did not believe ArenaNet made any/much profit from players exchanging Gold for Gems (to purchase said Living World releases).

no i suggested they could make lw prchaseable form the gemstore as gem only but ppl explained to me the proccess with which works with facts what you suggest here which is hypothetical sure it would cauz some bad press but thinking again long term this would just put more money into anets hands witch can be used to improve the game and deliver better and more content also they could make it so for the time before the next lw pack releases you can buy the current with a 20% discount.