Human beings are not donkeys. Please stop treating us like we are. The vertical progression and gear treadmill games are trying to turn humans into donkeys. The endless pursuit of ‘more powerful gear’ is the same as having the stick in front of the donkey on the trail trying to get him to plod along for as long as he’ll last. In those games you never get through end game because next expansion, or content release there’s always newer gear. It’s exploitative of some humans addictive nature. Like doing cocaine for the first time, always chasing that high.
MMOs were once about experiencing and playing a in virtual world. Games like SWG, GW1 and UO weren’t about the illusion that is ‘end game progression’. Guild Wars 2’s vision and Manifesto harkened to a return to those worlds. To gamers going to all areas of the beautiful game worlds that the devs have created and playing in them. GW2 in my opinion achieved that with the game they launched with. It was beautiful, it was a living breathing virtual world, were players actually helped each other. Exotic gear was moderately easy to obtain and could be obtain from at least four different ways of playing the game. After getting the spec and exotic gear you liked you simply could go about playing the game as you enjoyed, ie living in the virtual world of Tyria.
However recent changes have indicated a move toward treating us, your current and active customer base, like donkeys. Not just with the shift from the developers in terms of vertical progression with the plan changed to Legendary gear and the introduction of ascended gear. But the lack of communication to the player base.
Please treat us like human beings again. Communicate your long term plans with us for vertical versus horizontal progression in PVE and WvW. If you cannot remove ascended gear’s improved stats, restore the horizontal progression in some way and do it soon. There are a number of ways I know your talented design strike-teams can tackle the problem. Such as using the mystic forge to upgrade exotic gear to ascended gear to empower the item.
Unlike most people that played it, I actually remember UO and how everyday life in that game was. I remember standing in fire walls while BSing with my guild for like hours on end to raise magic resist. I remember grinding daemons with blade spirit for months to raise magery and hopefully get enough gold to buy a house.
Believe it or not, but UO was as much of a “donkey” game as GW2 is. MMORPGs are predicated on progression, and giving players something to work towards. If you don’t like that, then it may not be the genre for you.
Many people, myself included, avoided MMO’s like the plague because of the dumbed down and lazy incentive system of treadmills which seems strangely common in MMO’s. I always figured this was due to keeping the OCD customers in line paying their monthly subscriptions, or simply as a way for low skill players to gain an advantage over high skill players simply by continuing to pay their monthly subscription and grind boring content over and over again.
MMORPGs are predicated on progression, and giving players something to work towards. If you don’t like that, then it may not be the genre for you.
Explain to us why this is? Not every non-MMO game is a DOOM clone. What one reason is there that a game that hosts multiple players in the same game world NEEDS to kills the players’ progression towards 100% stats and working on their game play?
I love how people can’t figure out MMO means massively multiplayer online game.
For some odd reason, they seem to think it means Mgear Mgrind Ogame. I can’t figure out where they came up with mgear, mgrind or ogame, they aren’t in the dictionary.
There were a lot of different options for progression, unfortunately, Nexon seems to have mandated ANet goes with the easiest.
I am not an animal..
However I have been chasing Amy for quite a while…..
They changed the core principle – you can agree or disagree with it.
If you disagree with it and made your voice heard there is one last way for a corporation to hear a complaint. The bottom line – I will be doing this shortly.
They havent even stated why they made the change. I would have had more respect for them had they said
We have changed the direction – for those who dont like it there is a handy little red X in the corner – use it.
Nothing so I hope in the end OP you get what you want but corporations speak one language $.
Further more, the players who enjoy the carrot model have considerably better options to play at the moment with far more content.
AoC, Aion, WoW, Rift are four I could come up with that have more traditional raids and gear grinds.
I understand the games income is from our gem purchases and the best way to get that it to appeal to the idea that we want to look how we do. IE our vanity. But moving to a vertical progression, you will see less and less purchases of vanity items because players are less likely to buy them when they know a new set of gear is right around the corner so why change my look if I’m going to have to do it again.
New gear isn’t the enemy, new gear with higher stats is.
They havent even stated why they made the change. I would have had more respect for them had they said
Actually they did, technically. It was completely transparent that the reasoning given was complete and utter bullkitten, but they did give a reason.
I would have had more respect if they just didn’t say anything, at least then it would make them look unsure about what they are doing or just socially inept, rather than what they did say making it sound like they are sure that their consumers are idiots.
Bridging the gap between Exotics and Legendaries… the gap that still doesn’t exist until they actually make Ascended Weapons or Legendary Armour.
The thing is grinding is being added in most new games with such as black op 2 there are level to get things to unlock and there is a level of skill you must get to play. They are doing this for every thing and yes this is a type of grind because they want you to keep playing and by adding in something to get in the long run you keep playing.
If your looking for a game with out this i say play one of the old story games where you cant lose and there is nothing but a bit of clicking.
Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA
The thing is grinding is being added in most new games with such as black op 2 there are level to get things to unlock and there is a level of skill you must get to play. They are doing this for every thing and yes this is a type of grind because they want you to keep playing and by adding in something to get in the long run you keep playing.
If your looking for a game with out this i say play one of the old story games where you cant lose and there is nothing but a bit of clicking.
Just because it is common, doesn’t mean that is the right way of doing things. Actual gamers have money they want to spend as well, it is not just the gamblers and OCD players that have started playing video games in the last ten years that have money to spend.
The thing is grinding is being added in most new games with such as black op 2 there are level to get things to unlock and there is a level of skill you must get to play. They are doing this for every thing and yes this is a type of grind because they want you to keep playing and by adding in something to get in the long run you keep playing.
If your looking for a game with out this i say play one of the old story games where you cant lose and there is nothing but a bit of clicking.
In most games that are well balanced they unlock variety. Not more powerful gear.
Seriously, you’re moaning about some new free content like a little girl..
You missed the entire point. WE like the new content, I like the concepts, what WE don’t like is the improved gear stats. No case has been made as to why the power creep was introduced.
Fractals great,
New Zone great,
new gear great,
new gear with better stats than exotics VERY BAD.
Gaming is about “giving players something to work towards” as much as playing cards, checkers, table games, soccer, basketball, any other sport with your friends is about “you beating them and winning at all cost”
…i am really disgusted theres a whole new generation of gamers that dont know how to just “PLAY” to have fun, to apreciate the artwork and soundscore delivered, to just be, but what even disgusts me the most is tired old vet gamers that lost their pace and supports this frenetic devouring pace for gear, the blind path-chaser leading nowhere but to frustration.
Just knowing that i need to bow myself to the bad taste of this kind of gamers to have a populated game, just makes this all thread worthy of a sticky in my book. So you can all watch ANet do what you want and go down in flames, because what these devs dont realize is that your kind of gamers is the first one to jump off the game when the new flavour hits the market…
Me? I play the same 2 games for over 6 years now. I was hoping this one to eb the 3rd….but gues the “manifesto” is weak in the force.
“When in doubt, choose change.” Leung
“All great changes are preceded by chaos.” Chopra
‘No matter what people tell you, words and ideas can change the world’ Robin Williams
I love the end game gear progression. Hitting a wall and never growing from 80 is a horribad idea in my opinion.
So why aren’t you playing one of the games designed for vertical progression from the get go. That have a lot more content for you to run through?
Rift? TOR? WOW? Aion?
Because all those games suck? And it has nothing to do with their gear progression. LOL.
The only game I can think of that did gear progression, and did it horribly wrong and that’s why it failed, was WARHAMMER online.
And I’m here because unlike you, I’m happy with gw2. “Why are you still here?” would be the better question?
I am for the most part happy with the game and I want it to continue enjoying the game, and a vertical progression will eventually remove said enjoyment. I’m being proactive.
Thank You Op.
I agree, I would add that I think there is a general underestimation in the age of the player base as well as intelligence.
There was a thread on this forum about the general age of the GW2 players and it was not 18, with 13 hours a day to play.
The people crowing victory on this thread might just pause and consider for a moment that players like you might have gotten your way, but you have ruined a potentially great game and made it just like all the others just because you had to have what you have always had.
In a month you will move on and there will be nothing left.
The people this game was designed for are left out in the cold again.
Thank You Op.
I agree, I would add that I think there is a general underestimation in the age of the player base as well as intelligence.
There was a thread on this forum about the general age of the GW2 players and it was not 18, with 13 hours a day to play.
The people crowing victory on this thread might just pause and consider for a moment that players like you might have gotten your way, but you have ruined a potentially great game and made it just like all the others just because you had to have what you have always had.
In a month you will move on and there will be nothing left.
The people this game was designed for are left out in the cold again.
I hear ya OP. But face it. They have switched their target audience just like it was everyday business and the new audience gets to mock us too.
I’m just waiting around a week until they man up and give this some closure by officially stating the future of the game and commenting on the state of the game now vs their manifesto and pre-release material. But I suppose we can’t expect that much respect after all this, right?
Give me game. Not grind, not gating, not RNG, not +stat junk, not checklists.
Unlike most people that played it, I actually remember UO and how everyday life in that game was. I remember standing in fire walls while BSing with my guild for like hours on end to raise magic resist. I remember grinding daemons with blade spirit for months to raise magery and hopefully get enough gold to buy a house.
Believe it or not, but UO was as much of a “donkey” game as GW2 is. MMORPGs are predicated on progression, and giving players something to work towards. If you don’t like that, then it may not be the genre for you.
Comparing UO to GW2? Lol. You could do whatever you wanted in UO and that game was as non linear as any game has ever been. Crafted gear in most cases was > artys and there were no level 80 areas as opposed to level 50 areas. Everywhere was dangerous. Random stat drops was/is an uber idea. UO was the greatest game ever. GW2 is just another been there done that game.
being a software developer I understand that response to such huge issues take time, so no I don’t think they’ve completely sold the farm so to speak yet.
being a software developer I understand that response to such huge issues take time, so no I don’t think they’ve completely sold the farm so to speak yet.
Dude, just do what I do, play games when you feel like it. Counter Strike Global Offensive is an awesome game dude, CSS is great to, TF2 is so so funny and silly, and GW2 is like for weekends when you got time to kill.
I see alot of you youngbloods theese days giving way too much importance to virtual enviorments that are only digital. Go out, meet some new people, a gym or a pub whichever you want, socialise the old way, have some fun, talk to girls or boys whichever you fancy and just live. Live in the real world for a change, it might do you some good.
Dude, just do what I do, play games when you feel like it. Counter Strike Global Offensive is an awesome game dude, CSS is great to, TF2 is so so funny and silly, and GW2 is like for weekends when you got time to kill.
I see alot of you youngbloods theese days giving way too much importance to virtual enviorments that are only digital. Go out, meet some new people, a gym or a pub whichever you want, socialise the old way, have some fun, talk to girls or boys whichever you fancy and just live. Live in the real world for a change, it might do you some good.
I don’t see what your post had to do with this tread, but you seemed to have missed the point that a lot of people playing this game are not “young bloods”
Personally I would love to play games whenever I felt like it but I have responsibilities in my life like a family and child.
So yes, I would like the time I have to devote to games not to waste my time
Unlike most people that played it, I actually remember UO and how everyday life in that game was. I remember standing in fire walls while BSing with my guild for like hours on end to raise magic resist. I remember grinding daemons with blade spirit for months to raise magery and hopefully get enough gold to buy a house.
Believe it or not, but UO was as much of a “donkey” game as GW2 is. MMORPGs are predicated on progression, and giving players something to work towards. If you don’t like that, then it may not be the genre for you.
Comparing UO to GW2? Lol. You could do whatever you wanted in UO and that game was as non linear as any game has ever been. Crafted gear in most cases was > artys and there were no level 80 areas as opposed to level 50 areas. Everywhere was dangerous. Random stat drops was/is an uber idea. UO was the greatest game ever. GW2 is just another been there done that game.
I’m arguing specifically against the OP’s assertion that UO (and other games) did not involve some kind of major grinding treadmill. I loved UO, don’t get me wrong. But TBH, it was grindy. And it was grindy as in kill the same monster 50000 times in a row…like old school grindy.
Honestly, the Ascended gear as is is just one BIG grindbait. They’re no doubt (already said they will) releasing it to be accessed by other methods.
Ergo, they did this to make people who need grind stay, and people like me who are more “I’ll get there when I get there”, will still get there via other means.
You do realize that a vertical progression game encourages having less of a social life than one with horizontal progression right?
I think this is an unproven fallacy that people want to spread without any factual evidence or support. Hunting skills and items via farming was no less a time sink than “grinding”, the only different was you KNEW some rare item could drop from those mobs. In Shadowbane, which I think is one of the best examples of horizontal progression ever having your own shops, houses, towns, cities, keeps and even nations made of several guilds at once..people spent months doing nothing but making items or talking to others about guild politics.
Progression in and of itself is a time sink..thats all it is, any type of it serves the same purpose and has the same goal.
I am not an animal..
However I have been chasing Amy for quite a while…..
They changed the core principle – you can agree or disagree with it.
If you disagree with it and made your voice heard there is one last way for a corporation to hear a complaint. The bottom line – I will be doing this shortly.
They havent even stated why they made the change. I would have had more respect for them had they said
We have changed the direction – for those who dont like it there is a handy little red X in the corner – use it.
Nothing so I hope in the end OP you get what you want but corporations speak one language $.
Umm dude they did say why the made the change lol. You missed the memo lol. The reason why they made the change was cause of the “Legendary Wall”. No character Progression and people were leaving the game cause they felt like there was nothing left to do. So they made a way for there to be a constant character progression through the use of the dungeon and agony. You got to keep up with the memos before making comments like this.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
Human beings are not donkeys. Please stop treating us like we are. The vertical progression and gear treadmill games are trying to turn humans into donkeys. The endless pursuit of ‘more powerful gear’ is the same as having the stick in front of the donkey on the trail trying to get him to plod along for as long as he’ll last. In those games you never get through end game because next expansion, or content release there’s always newer gear. It’s exploitative of some humans addictive nature. Like doing cocaine for the first time, always chasing that high.
MMOs were once about experiencing and playing a in virtual world. Games like SWG, GW1 and UO weren’t about the illusion that is ‘end game progression’. Guild Wars 2’s vision and Manifesto harkened to a return to those worlds. To gamers going to all areas of the beautiful game worlds that the devs have created and playing in them. GW2 in my opinion achieved that with the game they launched with. It was beautiful, it was a living breathing virtual world, were players actually helped each other. Exotic gear was moderately easy to obtain and could be obtain from at least four different ways of playing the game. After getting the spec and exotic gear you liked you simply could go about playing the game as you enjoyed, ie living in the virtual world of Tyria.
However recent changes have indicated a move toward treating us, your current and active customer base, like donkeys. Not just with the shift from the developers in terms of vertical progression with the plan changed to Legendary gear and the introduction of ascended gear. But the lack of communication to the player base.
Please treat us like human beings again. Communicate your long term plans with us for vertical versus horizontal progression in PVE and WvW. If you cannot remove ascended gear’s improved stats, restore the horizontal progression in some way and do it soon. There are a number of ways I know your talented design strike-teams can tackle the problem. Such as using the mystic forge to upgrade exotic gear to ascended gear to empower the item.
I am not an animal..
However I have been chasing Amy for quite a while…..
They changed the core principle – you can agree or disagree with it.
If you disagree with it and made your voice heard there is one last way for a corporation to hear a complaint. The bottom line – I will be doing this shortly.
They havent even stated why they made the change. I would have had more respect for them had they said
We have changed the direction – for those who dont like it there is a handy little red X in the corner – use it.
Nothing so I hope in the end OP you get what you want but corporations speak one language $.
Umm dude they did say why the made the change lol. You missed the memo lol. The reason why they made the change was cause of the “Legendary Wall”. No character Progression and people were leaving the game cause they felt like there was nothing left to do. So they made a way for there to be a constant character progression through the use of the dungeon and agony. You got to keep up with the memos before making comments like this.
I don’t even know where to say that your statement is soo narrowed or even blind sighted. What gap are you talking about, the amount of item/time require to get those ascended gear is no different than that require for any of the legendary weapon. With that amount of time spent on getting the ascended gear it would make more sense going toward the legendary. There is no so call “gap” whats next? holy armor to fill the gap between ascended and legendary?
Just sometime people cannot seem to see thing for what they are, and just gobble up everything that is handed to them, if they said they gave you a piece of cake and you took a bite into it, then knowingly well that it was a piece of dog pie that’s cover in icing would you still believe that it really is a piece of cake?
We are the consumer, we know what we want, don’t tell us what we want its bad for business.
This forum has got to be the preachiest place in a exisntence with all (Horizontal progression art holyier than thou) people that come here raging.
It’s cool man, they’re just here to tell you that everything you think is wrong and they are right.
Please, stay here and enjoy vertical progression. Seriously, don’t move a muscle. I will gladly move to another game, just stay very very very very very very far away from the next game I pick that is not a gear grind. I will leave you alone. We can treat this like an informal severance package. Just stay here.
This forum has got to be the preachiest place in a exisntence with all (Horizontal progression art holyier than thou) people that come here raging.
It’s cool man, they’re just here to tell you that everything you think is wrong and they are right.
Please, stay here and enjoy vertical progression. Seriously, don’t move a muscle. I will gladly move to another game, just stay very very very very very very far away from the next game I pick that is not a gear grind. I will leave you alone. We can treat this like an informal severance package. Just stay here.
[Moderatoed]
Oh no. Not at all. I just want my next game left alone from people that want to turn every game into a gear grind. Please, stay and enjoy. Just leave my next game alone and try not to ruin my fun. By all means, enjoy what you enjoy. Please read that line again. This game is obviously not for me anymore. It’s for you.
This forum has got to be the preachiest place in a exisntence with all (Horizontal progression art holyier than thou) people that come here raging.
It’s cool man, they’re just here to tell you that everything you think is wrong and they are right.
Please, stay here and enjoy vertical progression. Seriously, don’t move a muscle. I will gladly move to another game, just stay very very very very very very far away from the next game I pick that is not a gear grind. I will leave you alone. We can treat this like an informal severance package. Just stay here.
[Moderated]
Oh no. Not at all. I just want my next game left alone from people that want to turn every game into a gear grind. Please, stay and enjoy. Just leave my next game alone and try not to ruin my fun. By all means, enjoy what you enjoy. Please read that line again. This game is obviously not for me anymore. It’s for you.
XD don’t mean to troll, but I just can’t seem to hold back on this one, I say just let him remain and continue eatting the “cake” that anet is feeding him.
.