Guild Wars 2

broken forums are broken…

Rococo.8347:

It means nothing – he didn’t even get to see anything then get tied up in the Mother of all disclosure agreements to not release what it was – if that had been the case this thread would have been of marginal interest.

Incidentally Vayne you have a kitten cheek telling people they are ‘off topic’ when pretty much every thread you create or contribute to descends into a semantic argument and ends up having nothing to do with the thread /question at hand, you are a Troll a lot of the time – a more subtle one that some granted – but derailing threads by telling people what they are thinking or what they are thinking is wrong or doesn’t fit your predetermined rules of interaction ( which you yourself break) is still derailing threads by attacking other peoples comments.

stop trolling.

A semantic argument can be on topic. So it’s not cheek to call off topic off topic. I’ve had off topic posts in threads, it’s true. But usually when I’m talking about a semantic argument, it’s because the words used by someone give a false impression and communicate the wrong idea.

I don’t know how pointing out that someone is actually saying something other than what they think they’re saying can possibly be off topic.

The funny part of this stuff stuff is, there are only three possibilities:

1. ANet has many employees and is very inefficient in producing stuff (which many got the impression from what we get with the LS as content)

2. ANet is using most of its staff to produce an expansion, which is at least a year away (an expansion would need an elder dragon as hype factor and we are still short Mordi, ANet would not release two elder dragons in less than a year)

3. ANet works on a new GW game, rendering GW2 more or less futile.

Pick one, but honestly, all three options suck. Years with near to no new content? AT least another year with near to no new content? Waiting years for GW3?

That stuff really sounds amazing!

Gene Archer.8560:

ANet: Hey guys, we’re working on stuff!
White Knights: See guys! They’re working on stuff!
“Haters”: But what is this “stuff”? What is it you’re actually doing?
ANet: We can’t say, but it’s totally cool stuff! STUFF! SO MUCH STUFF!
“Haters”: That’s not actually telling us anything, thou-
White Knights: OMG YOU GUYS STOP HATING ON ANET. HOW COULD YOU!
“Haters”: We don’t hate the game, we actually love it and have become disillusioned by a lack of meaningful communication and not knowing what ANet actually has plann-
ANet: STUUUUUFFFFF!!!!!! SO MUCH STUUUUUUUFFFFFFFFFFFFF!!!!!!! AND IT’S SO AWESOME THAT WE CAN’T ACTUALLY SAY ANYTHING ABOUT IT. IT’S JUST THAT COOL!
White Knights: SEE! SEE! IT’S STUFF YOU GUYS! STUFF! STUFF HAS NEVER GONE WRONG!

Cute. But you aren’t getting what a hater is. The haters are the ones who continuously say “the game sucks, the game is dying, who cares what they do anet will mess it up anyway”. Those people are the haters. By your suggestion what a hater is, then I would be one, since I continue to say their policy on information is stupid and needs changing.

It’s comical that people take “working on stuff” to be anything more than batches of LS updates.

Just look at Gailes posts in the communication thread. Basically she implies thar LS IS the meaningful content that they are and will be delivering. Further, when anything like traits, more skills, more weapons, more races was brought up she re-listed “but don’t you think that LS counts?”.

No, it takes far more than 20 people to deliver LS. Maybe just writers and planners for one chapter that is about to go live.

Vayne.8563:

It’s funny, you know. There’s absolutely no substance to people who say Anet isn’t working on anything, and that they’re not talking because they have nothing to talk about, but I don’t see you getting into those comments and saying they don’t have substance.

There’s no need! They have you for that! I’m just providing the other side of things! I’m providing much needed balance to these forums, much the same as you!

Vayne.8563:

That smacks of bias.

You of all people have no right to talk about bias.

Vayne.8563:

If you’re going to complain about lack of substance, be fair and complain about lack of substance on both sides.

Maybe when you start being fair and actually stop defending ANet 90% of the time.

Vayne, seriously. Tell me how the revelation that ANet is “working” on “stuff” actually helps anything?

Okay, so now we know, beyond the shadow of a doubt (but not really), that ANet is actually working on stuff. We now know that people who say “ANet isn’t actually working on anything” are wrong (maybe). Because someone was given a tour of the ANet buildings and they saw “stuff” going on.

And yet, the perception that ANet is sitting around twiddling their thumbs is going to persist, well past the existence of this thread, because of things like the information blackout the community is still being put through.

You claim that all I want to do is argue, but what about yourself? The only reason I can see for you posting such a thread is so you can jump up and down going “See, see! I was right you guys! ANet is doing things! This other guy says so as well!”

Well, congrats, then, Vayne! You are right and they are wrong! ANet is soooo working on stuff! Huzzah for stuff!

You yourself admitted that the article doesn’t really mean anything, so I wonder why you’re trying so kitten hard to defend it as anything meaningful.

Serophous.9085:

Anet: “Guys, we are working on stuff”
Haters: “We don’t believe you”
Outside source: “I went to Anet, I can confirm they are working on stuff”
Haters: “We don’t believe you”
Hypothetical more sources go: “We too can confirm they are working on stuff”
Haters: “Well, none of us went, so you ALL must be in a conspiracy to keep up the charade that Anet is doing stuff!”

I’ve given up on trying to argue with those people. There is no point. They hate the game, they bash the game, its all they do. Anet could come out with an expansion that could be held as the greatest thing ever in the MMO community, and they will still trash it. There is no winning.

You’re misrepresenting your opponent’s argument. Your opponents are saying “stuff” can mean anything, and until ArenaNet tells or shows us what “stuff” is, there’s no reason to get excited. Your response to that very reasonably stance is to claim your opponents will react in an absurd manner to a hypothetically situation that has no bearing on the discussion at hand.

Your opponents are saying “we care about this game, but we don’t like where it is or seems to be going.” You’re claiming your opponents are saying “we hate this game, and we will always hate this game.” That’s what’s called a straw man argument.

“The so-called typical “attacking a straw man” argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent’s proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., “stand up a straw man”) and then to refute or defeat that false argument (“knock down a straw man”) instead of the original proposition."

Misrepresentation of an opponent’s argument isn’t the best way to argue a point or defense a stance. If you didn’t intend to do so, then going forward try to focus on and respond to what’s actually being said. If it was your intent, then we’ll at least know what we’re dealing with going forward.

You know…. after reading most of the comments on this thread and looking back at everything related to the game, the one thing that comes to mind is

Mesmer vs. Skritt

Filaha.1678:

pdavis.8031:

This is the internet, and there are more Negative Nancys than Positive Pollys.

I’d say that there’s a larger number of Realistic Rhondas than Negative Nancys.

Yes, there are some who just want to complain. But I think more of the people who look at this and say “So what?” aren’t being negative as they are being realistic. We’re not trying to hate on the game and Anet. We’re trying to see what it matters.

Yes, they’re “working on stuff”. So? What stuff? More cash shop items? More living story? More NPE and trait-style screw-ups? More professions? More zones? More dungeons? More crafting recipes? More Black Lion weapon sets that ignore underwater weapons? More WvW maps or siege weapons or tricks and traps?

Who knows? They could be working on all of those or none of them (except cash shop items and living story). There are only two things we can actually count on Arenanet to actually be working on, and that’s living story, which to many is too little or too much work for not enough reward or is just simply not something they’re interested in, and cash shop items to try to get even more money out of us.

If the Realistic Rhondas are looking like Negative Nancies, maybe it’s because there’s realistically not much to be positive about.

While there is a fine line between being realistic, and being negative, there is nothing realistic about claiming that the game is hemorrhaging players to the point where Anet is about to shut its doors, or claims that anything and everything added to the gem store is nothing more then a shameless money grubbing tactic and that Anet is nothing more than a greedy corporation, whose only goal is to empty the wallets of its loyal player base. There is no realism in statements that the LS is so horrible that they had to implement the megaserver to hide how many players have left. It’s not realistic to assert the assumption that no one at Anet cares, or is actually doing anything productive. Its not realistic to claim that PvP and WvW are so dead as to might as well not exist, and any attempts by the devs to do anything with PvP/WvW are just pitiful and hopeless attempts to revive a game mode that is so far dead it might as well be a Risen minion of Zhiatan.

I’ve seen all of these “realistic” claims (not so much in this thread) too many times to even take such things seriously anymore. These are not being realistic. This is just being negative, straight up. While there are some very realistic posts and threads, more often then not they are filled with negativity, and outright insults, not only to players, but to the devs who have poured much of themselves into this venture.

Donari.5237:

Keep in mind that the reporter may very well know more than is in the article, but have agreed to keep mum as a condition of viewing the “stuff.” So the article can’t be detailed yet remains positive and excited.

Well, since the reporter didn’t actually say anything new, there was no point to the article at all. Beyond, of course, Anet trying to send a message “see? we’re working! Scout’s honor! No, can’t tell you more”. Seriously, if that was all they were going to tell us, there was no reason to invite any journalist. They could have written a post on forums (and actually there was a post like that made by Gaile lately). The effect would have been (and was) the same.

Gene Archer.8560:

Maybe when you start being fair and actually stop defending ANet 90% of the time.

Vayne, seriously. Tell me how the revelation that ANet is “working” on “stuff” actually helps anything?

Okay, so now we know, beyond the shadow of a doubt (but not really), that ANet is actually working on stuff. We now know that people who say “ANet isn’t actually working on anything” are wrong (maybe). Because someone was given a tour of the ANet buildings and they saw “stuff” going on.

And yet, the perception that ANet is sitting around twiddling their thumbs is going to persist, well past the existence of this thread, because of things like the information blackout the community is still being put through.

You claim that all I want to do is argue, but what about yourself? The only reason I can see for you posting such a thread is so you can jump up and down going “See, see! I was right you guys! ANet is doing things! This other guy says so as well!”

Well, congrats, then, Vayne! You are right and they are wrong! ANet is soooo working on stuff! Huzzah for stuff!

You yourself admitted that the article doesn’t really mean anything, so I wonder why you’re trying so kitten hard to defend it as anything meaningful.

First off, big fan, since the original of Gene and his rational opinions.

Again though, we are back to communications and managing expectations with this thread and the 1000’s of others. While we have facebook and twitter posts trying to promote hype, we still see responses that this is either not enough or they aren’t addressing “insert favorite game mode here” or “bugs” or NPE or Traits or etc…

They push esports, yet the game mode isn’t even close to ready for it. (sorry Josh, but no). Yes, lets pass out 50k (or w/e) to winners of a basically kitten mode, that will help.

They push LS yet people don’t feel enthralled with its “2 week release” schedule, while the dev team scrambles to keep up.

And, well that’s it. this is what we get, people that support the game and have enough inclination to post on the forums, feeedback? Yes kudos on the wardrobe… Kudos on semi challenging content with SilverWastes, yes Kudos on Glints lair. All well received content, now get your faces out of you’re friggen spreadsheets.

We get it Vayne, touting how “look guys they are working on stuff” and you wonder why this is met with skepticism and trolls, shocker…

Please try and be as realistic as you seem to be expecting the nay sayers to be.

It’s not helpful to misclassify and say, negatives say anet isnt working on anything. No one says that. What we are saying is thar we want them to work on more than LS, and we want some basic thing in the game that have stagnated to grow.

It amazes me to continue to hear that there are some players that think that two years with the same weapons, weapon skills, et al really don’t think there is room for improvement and to ask anet to tell us that they are working on at least one of these things.

This thread is like asura vs ambient creatures ????

The fact is that we basically have the same repeatable content from the beginning , a couple of minor fixes and , twists is all we got .

We need game changing stuff… for example -

The wallet feature
The new dungeon reward system
The upcoming pvp System
LFG tool
Guild missions

Those are the only things that changed the game from my point of view

Living story
NPE
Trait revamp

Those i guess were nice , but were not needed or requested by anyone as far as i know , and didn’t change the game (daily permanent experience) at all

So my conclusion is , they are definitely working on "stuff " but is stuff that doesn’t impact the game for longer than a few hours , it takes months of work for them to create it , just to give us a few minutes to play .

I know they also have teams working in bugs , traits etc.. but it really looks like is a very very very small team probably 1 or 2 people , and the living story has music band, actors , renderings , design , story writers.. and on and on.. just to keep us playing for maybe 1 or 2 hours? , i don’t think is cost efficient..it sounds really complicated to create something that brings so little play time.. and questionable “fun content” (walls of text) . linear story …. is just filling content that doesn’t change the GAME at all but its story only .

People seem to play living story because is the only " fresh content that we basically have" and most people is sick at this point of doing the same old content (dungeons , fractals ,pvp ,wvw ) from years ago , still iv asked countless of people and haven’t met a single person that really cared about living story.. , even if you look at the forums the dungeon forum alone has much higher viewers and posts.. than the living story .

2 years of experience , between anet and players have shown that players opinion or suggestions for good or bad doesn’t have any IMPACT in this game , at the very least i think things like CDI and suggestions .. should implement “top voted suggestions” that are seriously considered by a big team of developers.. not just 1 person reading it and commenting it to the others just to put it in the trashcan .

I think the majority on this forum and playerbase don’t expect ArenaNet to deliver any amazing content like an expansion or a huge content update. Some guy said ArenaNet are working on “stuff”. And? Show a tiny fracture of that stuff and we might believe you. Just a little hint.

Actually, I do “believe”. So please don’t speak for me. The frustration many of us feel is in how long it takes for them to release content, not that they don’t release any at all.

Patience is a virtue. ArenaNet is testing many people.

Goose.5196:

Azhure.1857:

Actually, I do “believe”. So please don’t speak for me. The frustration many of us feel is in how long it takes for them to release content, not that they don’t release any at all.

Unfortunately, an objective majority of the player base feels the way OP does. It is nice that you are content though.

subjective group on forums thinks is what you should write.

Where da statistics at bros

For me, an “expansion or a huge content update” is not necessary. The Living Story season 2 regularly adds small pieces of (permanent) content to the game. This is also clearly what ArenaNet has been working on during the first half of 2014.

I don’t know what will come after season 2, but I would rather have continuous expansion (like new zones that are regularly released in small chunks every few weeks), than a year of nothing followed by a “huge content update” that will feel like it has been there forever in two weeks time.

Preparing new content takes months of time. We players tend to forget that.

@ Goose

Seeing as you removed your comment. Please look up the definition to the word ‘content’ and then determine if you think it actually applies to me. Personally I don’t think it does. Just because I’m not acting like a malcontent doesn’t mean that I am satisfied either.

Thanks. Bye.

Azhure.1857:

@ Goose

Seeing as you removed your comment. Please look up the definition to the word ‘content’ and then determine if you think it actually applies to me. Personally I don’t think it does. Just because I’m not acting like a malcontent doesn’t mean that I am satisfied either.

Thanks. Bye.

Well, since he already left (assuming this from the “Thanks. Bye.”) can someone let him know that I deleted my comment when I realized he was not content with the game.

Jornophelanthas.1475:

Preparing new content takes months of time. We players tend to forget that.

That is the main problem , they spend 3 months to make 2 hour content.. maybe they should focus in spending 3 months making content that last longer.. is what most people ask..

Maybe instead of a nice cut-scene video that takes 1 month to make.. we could have a new skill that takes 1 week to make.. to give an example

pdavis.8031:

claims that anything and everything added to the gem store is nothing more then a shameless money grubbing tactic

Actually, this is more realistic than otherwise, if for no other reason than due to pricing. I mean, look at things like the silver-fed salvage kit. When it first came out, math was done the day of to show that it cost more per salvage to use that by a significant degree than just buying the kits (and even more significant if you used the 250-use kits), in addition to the up-front gem cost. There have been bundles of items which have mathematically been rip-offs. Belinda’s Greatsword, for example, could have been inserted into the game as an acquirable item, but was instead a cash shop item despite having already been modeled for the main game (unless it was modeled for the cash shop originally and inserted into the story as a carrot on a stick). And then for the Hallowe’en event, the only “new” things we got acquirable in-game and not through the gem store were reskins of things that already exist. The outfit was one of the Hallowe’en outfits that have been out for at least a year, except with a hat and beads. The minis were reskinned already-existing minis.

And even with the things you have to pay for, they slack. Human females (at least) do not have a butt underneath the Magitech armor skirt. I assume it was because it was easier to just get rid of the butt entirely rather than figure out a way to not make it clip, but that’s just lazy. Then there’s the Count/Noble (whatever it is) outfit from Hallowe’en that just has a big black void underneath the skirt for no reason. AFAIK, it’s the only skirt in the entire game that just deletes your legs. And despite paying $10 to unlock skins (obviously not counting outfits) you then have to pay more (or waste time doing city map completion on fresh characters) to use them more than once.

And how about the price point? Mine-r-tron is the “low, low” price of 1000 gems. That’s $12.50. Getting a full set of -tron items at that price point would be $37.50. Add in the backpack and you could buy a different game.

So realistically? Yes. The gem store is a huge cash grab with overpriced items and too much focus.

Its not realistic to claim that PvP and WvW are so dead as to might as well not exist, and any attempts by the devs to do anything with PvP/WvW are just pitiful and hopeless attempts to revive a game mode that is so far dead it might as well be a Risen minion of Zhiatan.

I don’t know about PvP, but depending on your server, that claim about WvW isn’t very unrealistic.

Csele.1647:

That is the main problem , they spend 3 months to make 2 hour content.. maybe they should focus in spending 3 months making content that last longer.. is what most people ask..

Maybe instead of a nice cut-scene video that takes 1 month to make.. we could have a new skill that takes 1 week to make.. to give an example

So what you basically want is content that you can grind over and over and over and over and over again?
Because that is basically the only other way. Content will still take time to create and it will always take more time to create content than it will take for people to complete content.

An extremely bad example, seeing as people doing cut-scenes (animators) does not work on skill (balancers and programmers).

lordkrall.7241:

Csele.1647:

That is the main problem , they spend 3 months to make 2 hour content.. maybe they should focus in spending 3 months making content that last longer.. is what most people ask..

Maybe instead of a nice cut-scene video that takes 1 month to make.. we could have a new skill that takes 1 week to make.. to give an example

So what you basically want is content that you can grind over and over and over and over and over again?
Because that is basically the only other way. Content will still take time to create and it will always take more time to create content than it will take for people to complete content.

An extremely bad example, seeing as people doing cut-scenes (animators) does not work on skill (balancers and programmers).

you didn’t get the point . and i meant the skill animation but that is irrelevant.. to the point of spending the time in stuff that have an impact in the game….

Oh I’m sorry was the creation of entirely new game maps, tons of new weapon skins and new armor, and a lore progression not enough for you?

GW2 is taking a different approach to content. They’re not releasing one yearly expansion, they’re releasing content gradually over the course of the year.

All you with your excessive complaints need to stop trying to milk that $60 you spent on the game 2 years ago. How many of you are buying gems more than once a year to support new content? The gem store is what funds new content. The up-front cost of the game just covered the cost of making the game we had on release.

If you can, please spend some gems every once in a while. You get a nice treat and you can be happy knowing you’re contributing to new content.

If you can’t afford buying gems, that’s okay but stop demanding new content. You’ve got a humongous game and had 2 years to play it for the low price of $60. Even cheaper if you got the game on one of the sales.

Mo Mo.1947:

Oh I’m sorry was the creation of entirely new game maps, tons of new weapon skins and new armor, and a lore progression not enough for you?

GW2 is taking a different approach to content. They’re not releasing one yearly expansion, they’re releasing content gradually over the course of the year.

All you with your excessive complaints need to stop trying to milk that $60 you spent on the game 2 years ago. How many of you are buying gems more than once a year to support new content? The gem store is what funds new content. The up-front cost of the game just covered the cost of making the game we had on release.

If you can, please spend some gems every once in a while. You get a nice treat and you can be happy knowing you’re contributing to new content.

If you can’t afford buying gems, that’s okay but stop demanding new content. You’ve got a humongous game and had 2 years to play it for the low price of $60. Even cheaper if you got the game on one of the sales.

If only there was content that would make people come back and want to spend money on gems.

If I wanted to believe something I would go to the church.
So +1

I do believe Anet is working on an expansion/campaign style release. All the success this past year in mmo’s cashing in on expansions, while GW2 continues to be perceived as stagnant is not helping.

Another reason to stay positive is the number of employees Anet supposedly has. It would be pretty embarrassing, and costly to keep that many on for what we have seen in the last 2+years. Anet also avoided NCsoft cuts, so that’s positive too.

petespri.6548:

It’s comical that people take “working on stuff” to be anything more than batches of LS updates.

Just look at Gailes posts in the communication thread. Basically she implies thar LS IS the meaningful content that they are and will be delivering. Further, when anything like traits, more skills, more weapons, more races was brought up she re-listed “but don’t you think that LS counts?”.

No, it takes far more than 20 people to deliver LS. Maybe just writers and planners for one chapter that is about to go live.

Petespri, I couldn’t agree with you more. I noticed the same kind of tone in Gaile’s responses too. Yes, the “stuff” is more LS content, I believe. (They probably have the LS season 3 stuff pretty well sewn up right now! haha)

When it comes down to it, LS is mostly what GW2 is about when you’re talking about moving forward with content. I think they do a decent job at it – LS, but for many of us, I think we want the kind of MMO updates that typical big time MMOs put out, like many of you fine folks have pointed out. If LS is your thing, then you might be happy with the regular LS updates that pop up every 2-4 weeks (or whatever).

Personally, I love the WvW aspect of GW2. It’s my “end game.” GW2 seems to have the best version of this game mode… still. (So I’m here until some other game trumps them in this area.) The dev time that we’ve gotten in the past 2 years for WvW has been ok/decent imho. Stuff like – the WxP system, WvW seasons, traps and tricks stuff, revamp of water area of the BLs, BL bloodlust, Obsidian Sanctum, EoTM, world match making modifications, etc., have been changes that at least showed an effort from Anet. But I fear they’ve run out of dev resources for such things now. And it now looks like they’re putting most of their eggs into the LS basket for the most part. (And too bad EotM wasn’t living like LS. It CAN/could have been adapted to make it more WvW focused and meaningful.)

Will we see a real expansion full of new/non-LS things in 2015? Like many have said – I hope so, but I doubt it. But I think it’s good to keep talking about the “stuff” that we want here in these forums just in case Anet shifts gears on where GW2 is heading. (You never know… companies reevaluate “direction” constantly with their products, so anything is possible!)

While it’s great to hear that ANet is actually working, it doesn’t matter to players (yet).
For all I care they could work on super awesome revolutionary stuff and it wouldn’t concern me because it’s not actually in the game yet!

This thread is cute but for me, content only exists when we can play it.
I don’t benefit in any way from knowing that there is something ‘awesome’ on the horizon (i.e. 1-2 years down the line).

Mo Mo.1947:

Oh I’m sorry was the creation of entirely new game maps, tons of new weapon skins and new armor, and a lore progression not enough for you?

All you with your excessive complaints need to stop trying to milk that $60 you spent on the game 2 years ago. How many of you are buying gems more than once a year to support new content? The gem store is what funds new content. The up-front cost of the game just covered the cost of making the game we had on release.

If you can, please spend some gems every once in a while. You get a nice treat and you can be happy knowing you’re contributing to new content.

Ok sir…………… now to you

This is the icing on the cake.

When i bought the game for 60$ i was told something like that……..
An always evolving living world always changing where no day is like the day before.
They also had advert. videos on with a chick in a Taxi bragging how the world is changing on a daily base. Where no day is like the day before !!!!!!!!!!!!

This is what i bought with my 60$ period.
They didn’t say it is changing and evolving when i spend money on the gem store.

The next thing is that absolutely everything in this game is timer based…. world bosses,
bosses or whatever you want… it’s always happening at the same time or i a fixed cycle.
Dungeons are always the same… Fractals are always the same ……..

Does this sound like every day is new and not like the day before ??

And you come in here demanding people should spend money on the Gem Store
to support this borderline lie ??

And last but most important …………………….

People don’t want more content they want quality content.
All your new maps and weapons new skills have one thing in common.
They are utterly useless from a player point of view !!!!!!!!!
What is it 2 new maps ? What are you doing there ???? Right…. farmind grind.
The maps make absolutely no sense from player point of view who is not into farming.

These maps are an excuse to tell the people ….. we did new maps.

And i better stop here before i say something and get my account suspended for 3 days

Filaha.1678:

pdavis.8031:

claims that anything and everything added to the gem store is nothing more then a shameless money grubbing tactic

Actually, this is more realistic than otherwise, if for no other reason than due to pricing. I mean, look at things like the silver-fed salvage kit. When it first came out, math was done the day of to show that it cost more per salvage to use that by a significant degree than just buying the kits (and even more significant if you used the 250-use kits), in addition to the up-front gem cost. There have been bundles of items which have mathematically been rip-offs. Belinda’s Greatsword, for example, could have been inserted into the game as an acquirable item, but was instead a cash shop item despite having already been modeled for the main game (unless it was modeled for the cash shop originally and inserted into the story as a carrot on a stick). And then for the Hallowe’en event, the only “new” things we got acquirable in-game and not through the gem store were reskins of things that already exist. The outfit was one of the Hallowe’en outfits that have been out for at least a year, except with a hat and beads. The minis were reskinned already-existing minis.

And even with the things you have to pay for, they slack. Human females (at least) do not have a butt underneath the Magitech armor skirt. I assume it was because it was easier to just get rid of the butt entirely rather than figure out a way to not make it clip, but that’s just lazy. Then there’s the Count/Noble (whatever it is) outfit from Hallowe’en that just has a big black void underneath the skirt for no reason. AFAIK, it’s the only skirt in the entire game that just deletes your legs. And despite paying $10 to unlock skins (obviously not counting outfits) you then have to pay more (or waste time doing city map completion on fresh characters) to use them more than once.

And how about the price point? Mine-r-tron is the “low, low” price of 1000 gems. That’s $12.50. Getting a full set of -tron items at that price point would be $37.50. Add in the backpack and you could buy a different game.

So realistically? Yes. The gem store is a huge cash grab with overpriced items and too much focus.

Its not realistic to claim that PvP and WvW are so dead as to might as well not exist, and any attempts by the devs to do anything with PvP/WvW are just pitiful and hopeless attempts to revive a game mode that is so far dead it might as well be a Risen minion of Zhiatan.

I don’t know about PvP, but depending on your server, that claim about WvW isn’t very unrealistic.

What one person might choose to call a cash grab another might point out is a company producing a product that people might choose to purchase.

Something is not overpriced if its current pricing is allowing it to produce target, or best, revenue For example:

A) Company prices X at $10 per unit. It then sells 1000 units for a total revenue of $10,000.
B) Company prices X at $5 per unit. It then sells 1500 units for a total revenue of $7,500.

In this example B would be under-priced. A might be over-priced as it is entirely possible that X would produce more revenue through proportionally greater unit sales at a middle ground price point.

The point is that by definition nothing is over-priced if the current price allows for appropriate levels of unit sales. Sure individual players might consider $10 for X to be beyond what they are willing to spend, but by that logic everything ever produced would have to be free in order to not be considered overpriced.

If lowering the individual prices would, with any degree of certainty, produce greater revenue the company would do so. They are in this to make money.

Ashen.2907:

What one person might choose to call a cash grab another might point out is a company producing a product that people might choose to purchase.

Something is not overpriced if its current pricing is allowing it to produce target, or best, revenue For example:

A) Company prices X at $10 per unit. It then sells 1000 units for a total revenue of $10,000.
B) Company prices X at $5 per unit. It then sells 1500 units for a total revenue of $7,500.

In this example B would be under-priced. A might be over-priced as it is entirely possible that X would produce more revenue through proportionally greater unit sales at a middle ground price point.

The point is that by definition nothing is over-priced if the current price allows for appropriate levels of unit sales. Sure individual players might consider $10 for X to be beyond what they are willing to spend, but by that logic everything ever produced would have to be free in order to not be considered overpriced.

If lowering the individual prices would, with any degree of certainty, produce greater revenue the company would do so. They are in this to make money.

So the price point is (assumed to be) set at what they believe is the optimal ratio for purchaser:price, not what is realistically feasible to get some profit but still be at a more accessible price in respect to the customers who might want something but not want to drop potentially half of what they spent on the game itself (if on sale) on a single item in it?

So if I’m understanding that correctly, you’re agreeing that it’s reasonable to claim that the cash shop is a cash grab, since their motivation behind the pricing would, if that is the case, then, clearly, be maximum profit over accessibility to customers? Right?

If I remember correctly, something like this already happened once early this year. Here
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Something-big-is-coming-in-2014/first
but instead of “I can’t wait until you guys find out what’s in store this year. People are going to die with excitement/shock” and “Better than an expansion” , we have “They are working on stuff”.

Non-Disclosure Agreement – everyone working at A.net signs one and everyone that visits signs one…simple enough if you know what it means.

P.S. – Valve doesn’t talk and no one complains.
A.net doesn’t talk and everyone kittenes. Double standard much?

Kurrilino.2706:

Mo Mo.1947:

Oh I’m sorry was the creation of entirely new game maps, tons of new weapon skins and new armor, and a lore progression not enough for you?

All you with your excessive complaints need to stop trying to milk that $60 you spent on the game 2 years ago. How many of you are buying gems more than once a year to support new content? The gem store is what funds new content. The up-front cost of the game just covered the cost of making the game we had on release.

If you can, please spend some gems every once in a while. You get a nice treat and you can be happy knowing you’re contributing to new content.

---

Ok sir…………… now to you

This is the icing on the cake.

When i bought the game for 60$ i was told something like that……..
An always evolving living world always changing where no day is like the day before.
They also had advert. videos on with a chick in a Taxi bragging how the world is changing on a daily base. Where no day is like the day before !!!!!!!!!!!!

This is what i bought with my 60$ period.
They didn’t say it is changing and evolving when i spend money on the gem store.

The next thing is that absolutely everything in this game is timer based…. world bosses,
bosses or whatever you want… it’s always happening at the same time or i a fixed cycle.
Dungeons are always the same… Fractals are always the same ……..

Does this sound like every day is new and not like the day before ??

And you come in here demanding people should spend money on the Gem Store
to support this borderline lie ??

And last but most important …………………….

People don’t want more content they want quality content.
All your new maps and weapons new skills have one thing in common.
They are utterly useless from a player point of view !!!!!!!!!
What is it 2 new maps ? What are you doing there ???? Right…. farmind grind.
The maps make absolutely no sense from player point of view who is not into farming.

These maps are an excuse to tell the people ….. we did new maps.

And i better stop here before i say something and get my account suspended for 3 days

You’re disappointed because the game didn’t turn out to be what you thought it was going to be by the way you imagined it when you read about it.

“They didn’t say it is changing and evolving when i spend money on the gem store.” Because developing new content and being able to run a company and paying employees doesn’t require money.

“The next thing is that absolutely everything in this game is timer based…. world bosses,
bosses or whatever you want… it’s always happening at the same time or i a fixed cycle.
Dungeons are always the same… Fractals are always the same ……..”
So is every other online mmo. Everything has a timer, when enemies/bosses/events re-spawn. How would the game be fun if certain bosses or events only happened like say once a mouth? As for everything always being the same, yeah it’s just like every other online mmo. Everything is always the same.

“People don’t want more content they want quality content.”
Which is more content and what you think is quality content and what others think quality content is, is two very different things.

“All your new maps and weapons new skills have one thing in common. They are utterly useless from a player point of view !!!!!!!!!”
You mean from your point of view not from the player base point of view as a whole.

“What is it 2 new maps ? What are you doing there ???? Right…. farmind grind. The maps make absolutely no sense from player point of view who is not into farming.” Again from your point of view not the player base as a whole. What else can they put into maps other than repeat events that players can redo again and again aka farming? You don’t have to farm you could just play the events for fun.

“These maps are an excuse to tell the people ….. we did new maps.”
Yeah because anyway you look at it 2 new maps still = new maps. You may not like the 2 new maps but it’s still new content.

Filaha.1678:

So the price point is (assumed to be) set at what they believe is the optimal ratio for purchaser:price, not what is realistically feasible to get some profit but still be at a more accessible price in respect to the customers who might want something but not want to drop potentially half of what they spent on the game itself (if on sale) on a single item in it?

So if I’m understanding that correctly, you’re agreeing that it’s reasonable to claim that the cash shop is a cash grab, since their motivation behind the pricing would, if that is the case, then, clearly, be maximum profit over accessibility to customers? Right?

The fundament of business economics is to obtain the maximum profit and not to maximise the sold units. Look at the trading post. People are driven by the same goal: maximise the profit.

The cash shop is not a cash grab, at least not more than the trading post. Arenaet uses price differentiation to maximise the profit and raise the aceesibility. If you wait long enough the will target you with lower prices.

This thread is so sad. Even defenders to death can only say that the devs are going to their office to get their pay. How deep will anet dig ?

Belenwyn.8674:

The fundament of business economics is to obtain the maximum profit and not to maximise the sold units.

Right, it’s a cash grab because their goal is to maximize profits by overpricing digital content rather than making it more accessible to more people.

Glad we agree.

This is what I get for editing with multiple windows open.

Fun off topic fact: all the arguments made in this page in defense of the accusation of cash-grabbing could be made to defend the infamous Dungeon Keeper (mobile).

On topic: yay stuff

I won’t presume on how much I reflect the community at large. But speaking only for myself, I can say this.

I’ve spent more on this game so far than I ever did on GW1. I did so because I believed in the game and the dev and wanted to be as supportive as I was financially comfortable enough to be. I was excited and really felt this game was “going places”. I had that excitement and faith based on how quickly they put out so much content in GW1. And with such a bigger team this time around, I absolutely expected no less for this. But we’ve gotten MUCH less so far. This is just objectively true. I like the LS enough, but the scope of it has been minuscule compared to the Cantha and Elona we got in the same time frame in the past.

I have no doubt Anet is “working on stuff”, and hey, maybe sometime in the next decade we’ll even get to see some of it (and hopefully it will even contain the things that we / I have been wanting all this time).

But my excitement and faith is largely faded by now. My money spending in this game is indefinitely “on hold” (while I have started spending time and money in other games like AA). I look forward to the next GW2 patch, and am keeping up with the LS. But the story progression is always so small and brief. And once I’m caught up on it, I don’t feel like I have any meaningful activities to participate in.

I like the themepark story content, but it always just “runs out” so fast, and then I have to wait so long until there’s more. I also like sandbox activities that feel like they matter ..but sadly GW2 has next to nothing in that regard.

So they’ve gone full-themepark mode, but so far have failed to actually deliver very much of it. Just a tiny bit here and there. And while I’m waiting for those story updates, what else is there to do? Just grind x, y, or z endlessly for no particular reason. Nothing has any consequences, nothing “at stake” to care about. Nothing has any sense of importance. No activity I can be part of that seems to matter, for myself, others, or Tyria. And because of that, after I’ve spent a couple hours catching up on the LS, the rest of my time and money can be better spent elsewhere. I’ve invested more money into this game than any other before, but I don’t feel I’ve gotten much “personal investment” in return and I thought I would have by now.

As long as Anet keeps updating the game, I suppose I’ll keep up with it. But I really didn’t expect to end up so disaffected with this franchise. It hasn’t turned out at all how I hoped it would by now and I just don’t feel that personal investment and attachment that I had wanted to. I’ve loved Tyria since 2005 and it does sadden me to admit things have gotten rather sour.

I wish I knew what this “stuff” is that’s being worked on, and I wish it would be everything I ever wanted (or at least a good bit of it). But I don’t know what it is, when it will be, or how much I’ll still care when/if it finally comes. I’m unsatisfied with the state of the game so far, and all the “question marks” about its future don’t give much re-assurance.

I never supported the idea of players demanding Anet to tell us what they are working on but I do wish they would tell us more than they are working on “stuff”.

Say they are working on an expansion like EOTN, them not telling us or hinting isn’t helping anyone, them or the players.

I like the LS but I don’t see how it’s going to keep the game going in the long run. At the rate it’s going it took a little over 2 years to finally get around to a new Elder Dragon (you know the main enemies in the game) so at this pace we’ll finally finish up with them in the next 10 years.

Anet keeping everything a secret is just going to hurt the game because players main complaints on the game always boil down to the same thing, Anet only cares about the LS and gem store, they show no interest in adding new weapons, skills, classes, races and so on.

Harper.4173:

While I don’t usually agree with Vayne I have to say that I too believe there’s some big project being worked on as we speak.

My guess? An expansion.

There’s been too little content these past 2 years to justify all those people working at a decent rate.

I believe they’ve started developing an expansion about a year ago when it became clear the game needed one.

I very much doubt it. They’ve made it clear that they despise the idea of an expansion and the idea of communicating with their community.

At this point the game will be drained of players slowly until the only people playing it are the kind that spit arguments like “Dun liek it dun play it” or “Haters ruined this game”. This kind of people are as much a problem as the lack of communication from ANet.

And if anyone fits that profile, I’ll give you guys a hint: This is a forum, a forum is a place to express opinions and thought, not circlejerk about how great the game is when there are nasty issues with it.

ideas given to anet in CDIs is getting worked on for a expansion hopefully… i would pay for commander system overhaul/ui and wvw getting any attention

Mavis.1463:

This is a forum, a forum is a place to express opinions and thought, not circlejerk about how great the game is when there are nasty issues with it.

So people whose thoughts and opinions are that the game is great are not included in the, “this is a place to express,” part of your quote ? Is it only people who agree with your opinions and thoughts that are to be allowed to express themselves without being insulted ?

Ashen.2907:

Producing a non-necessity product and selling it for a price that customers are willing to pay is not a cash grab

I don’t think you know what a cash grab is.

See, there’s a difference between “what customers are willing to pay” and “higher than what customers are willing to pay but it’s okay because less customers, albeit some, will still pay it”.

the company even allows players to get the product at reduced or no real world cost via gold/gem conversion.

Allowing players to create their own real world money discounts, up to and including 100%, is hardly a cash grab.

No, they essentially don’t. The gems in the market do not come out of nowhere. They’re put there by people buying them and then trading them for gold. If people stopped buying them, then nobody would be able to trade gold for them either.

So they’re not allowing players to create their own real world money discounts. Somebody is still paying 100% of the price. Gold trade just displaces who.

There is no such thing. If people are willing to pay it then it is the correct price.

Okay, you keep telling yourself that to defend ArenaNet. I can open up pretty much any video game forum and ask a question about if games that charge to even do anything productive in them are perfectly fine because some people are willing to pay for them and get a hundred responses that that’s crap. Why would I trust you over them?

Filaha.1678:

Ashen.2907:

Producing a non-necessity product and selling it for a price that customers are willing to pay is not a cash grab

I don’t think you know what a cash grab is.

See, there’s a difference between “what customers are willing to pay” and “higher than what customers are willing to pay but it’s okay because less customers, albeit some, will still pay it”.

the company even allows players to get the product at reduced or no real world cost via gold/gem conversion.

Allowing players to create their own real world money discounts, up to and including 100%, is hardly a cash grab.

No, they essentially don’t. The gems in the market do not come out of nowhere. They’re put there by people buying them and then trading them for gold. If people stopped buying them, then nobody would be able to trade gold for them either.

So they’re not allowing players to create their own real world money discounts. Somebody is still paying 100% of the price. Gold trade just displaces who.

There is no such thing. If people are willing to pay it then it is the correct price.

Okay, you keep telling yourself that to defend ArenaNet. I can open up pretty much any video game forum and ask a question about if games that charge to even do anything productive in them are perfectly fine because some people are willing to pay for them and get a hundred responses that that’s crap. Why would I trust you over them?

I am not defending Anet. I am however debunking claims that have no merit. It doesn’t matter how many people on how many forums you ask (there are forums out there for people who think the earth is flat). If people are willing to pay a certain price for a non-necessity then it is correctly priced.

Question for you:

What is the correct price for something ?

You mentioned maximum accessibility for customers….which of course requires that an item be free. Is that your definition ?

Mavis.1463:

Ashen.2907:

Mavis.1463:

This is a forum, a forum is a place to express opinions and thought, not circlejerk about how great the game is when there are nasty issues with it.

So people whose thoughts and opinions are that the game is great are not included in the, “this is a place to express,” part of your quote ? Is it only people who agree with your opinions and thoughts that are to be allowed to express themselves without being insulted ?

Don’t put words in my mouth, I never said that.

When you state that forums are for people to express their thoughts and opinions but that those who think the game is great are just sitting around circle-kittening, yes you did say that.

Ashen.2907:

Mavis.1463:

Ashen.2907:

Mavis.1463:

This is a forum, a forum is a place to express opinions and thought, not circlejerk about how great the game is when there are nasty issues with it.

So people whose thoughts and opinions are that the game is great are not included in the, “this is a place to express,” part of your quote ? Is it only people who agree with your opinions and thoughts that are to be allowed to express themselves without being insulted ?

Don’t put words in my mouth, I never said that.

When you state that forums are for people to express their thoughts and opinions but that those who think the game is great are just sitting around circle-kittening, yes you did say that.

Good job ignoring the rest of my post, point in case.
Saying people are circle-jerking isn’t denying them the right to say whatever they want, like I said, you’re just delusional.

Also, go back and read the post you replied to originally.
I was referring to people that are quick to dismiss any problems with the game and instead praise it endlessly, blaming any problems to the “haters”.
There’s a difference between liking a game and circle-jerking over it.