Guild Wars 2

I will do my best to keep this simple!

With the Heart of Thorns Bosses and now with the new Shatterer, I see Anet has done remarkably on large World Boss battles! This brings me to one that I think needs to be IMMEDIATELY changed!

The Evolved Jungle Wurm! Please hear me out..

It involves practically a FULL MAP of people, at least 50 for each of the THREE Wurm Bosses. Before HoT and Living World 2 content, this was probably the most difficult boss and I think it’s time for it to be changed. My reasons are as follows.

Too Many People – I think the people needed should be reduced, I’ve seen countless wait practically an hour to keep their spot on what hopes to be the Organized map in case it gets full. The fact you need so many people that it fills a map is quite insane for a boss like this. Take Dragon Stand. Three lanes, multiple events, bosses, big epic boss in the end, the entire map is made for that which leads me to the TOP reason!

Difficulty – How is it that anyone can join something like the Vinewrath in Silverwastes, Octovine in Auric, Dragon Stand, etc… and after a few tries, you know what to do to a point where you are not dependent on a guild.

I bring up Guild because for example, TTS, has organized maps for Triple Trouble, but even then they can’t do -every single map- that opens nor -every single time- the event comes to spawn. So if you become unlucky enough to not get into their full map, it’s basically hopeless now.. even when I’ve seen the ‘left out’ map have about +50 people waiting at the start.. but still can’t do it.

Shouldn’t this be a tad easier? Tequatl and Karka Queen have been mastered but ever since Triple Trouble was released, it’s still so difficult because it’s not just the boss but now getting into a full map and following a guild’s schedule.

Take this scenario for example. You wait an hour until the event begins. All who showed up were lucky enough to get Taxi’d to a ‘full map’ which leaves you and about 30-50 others in your situation. You decide to wait next time only to find out it’s not on the guild’s schedule thus there is no organization. Not to mention next time is HOURS away due to it being a prime boss like Teq or Karka Queen.

I think since we’ve reached Heart of Thorns, this boss should be just ‘slightly’ reduced to be more doable for people who put in their time waiting and hoping.

I think you are a bit off with the numbers required for TT.

25-30 per wurm are more than sufficient if people are organised (you won’t kill this one without organisation and 30% afk leechers). Not sure where you got 50. Sure if you want to overscale one of the wurms bring 50 people. As is the only wurm that definately requires 20+ people is amber due to the spear mechanic and having an extra condi group. So there, 30 people to be safe for that one.

GW2community is running TT 3-6 times per day and the success rate is probably somewhere around 80-90% if not higher. That is 3 times per day for the english crowd and 3 times per day for the german crowd.

Tequatle and Karka Queen are farm. Not sure what that has to do with the only semi interesting and challenging world boss.

Your taxi example is also way off. Most TT runs have a problem of barely getting enough people. Taxi and getting a spot is one of the least problems.

Khorthall.1682:

I think since we’ve reached Heart of Thorns, this boss should be just ‘slightly’ reduced to be more doable for people who put in their time waiting and hoping.

So since all of the HoT world events are farm and basically freeloot, arenanet are now supposed to go back and nerf the only challenging world boss in the game (which is on farm anyway)? You have a very wierd logic.

I think TT is fine. We need at least one boss in this game that is “the hard boss”, and currently that’s TT. I thought Mouth of Mordremoth would be it, but no; could have been Chak Gerent, but they nerf-via-scaling-fixed it.

I don’t think anything should be nerfed just because there’s new content out there. For a very simple reason:

Power creep.

While GW2 doesn’t have vertical progression and gear treadmills (as much as other MMOs at least), it still gets power creep in the fact that newer skills and capabilities (masteries, elite specializations) make old content less trivial – alongside the fact that players get used to mechanics and learn to counter them, the longer content remains untouched, over time it will become easier. So long as there are people interested in doing the content – be it for the fun or the rewards (and TT has unique rewards, and the most Central Tyria mastery points than any other world boss currently, possibly achievement points too).

If anything, the Central Tyria bosses – even Tequatl and Vinewrath – need buffs, not nerfs. But TT is fine as it is, IMO.

I must just be very unlucky then with this boss for the past few weeks, I tried at each wurm but if the new number is 30 then I don’t see why many maps practically give up if their taxi-map gets full, I see about 50-60 or so it’s good to know we have enough and could taxi in more if needed. I’ve just seen the wurm fights where it seems 50 seems most needed unless there’s just a portion that don’t know what to do with it.

Again, I must just be unlucky. Perhaps I just need to find these communities who do these organized runs, so far I’ve only known of TTS and had a hard time getting into those maps.

Would be nice if the LFG had a ‘World Boss’ section for the Prime Bosses. And I only brought up Tequatl and Karka Queen because they were counted as being the Main World Bosses right? At least I thought so but I’m only going by the Guild Challenge as you can only do those bosses specifically.

I’ll just keep on trying then!

The real problem is that you can’t join selected map servers. Therefor you get placed on a random map and hope this map will be an event map or you need to hope for people doing the annoying taxi stuff.

TTS did 3 TT maps in the past. But people don’t wan’t to get on our TS to get more numbers.There are those that say " why, do i even need to get on TS for?" well, with that thought mentality is limiting the amount of maps for others to be able to enjoy TT. But, can’t force people to do what they don’t want to do, so it’s on them.

EVOS does this encounter without voice chat. They talk to everyone in map chat. It takes longer but they often succeed.

There’s also a group I run with that runs the first TT of the day after reset, it’s not a guild run and designed to be more accessible for people new to TT with everything fully and completely explained. TT doesn’t need to be changed, the people who run TT love running it because it’s the only really interesting event to command.

If you are having trouble finding a good organised run check the LFG tool for taxis about half hour before TT escorts start, that is the time most groups who run it start their taxis (TTS being an exception to this). Thing is, even with a good group who know what they are doing… things can go wrong and the event fails, even guild runs like TTS fail occasionally. So don’t give up if a group fails; more often than not regular groups who run TT do succeed, you just might catch them on a bad day.

Being in TxS, your numbers are way off. You can probably do it with ~60 people total. And even then it’s hardly a truly difficult encounter, people just need to read the descriptions and do what the game says.

I think the game should have encounters of varying difficulties and degrees of organization.

From relatively simplistic Shadow Behemoth and Fire Elemental over moderately dangerous ones like new Shatterer, nighttime VB or the Vinewrath up to and including organization-required ones like Octovine, TD, TT or Tequatl. And as you can already see there, the last category needs to sub-divide based on how much you want the organization to be required. TT is on the upper end, Tequatl on the lower.

TT is one of the prototypes (with Teq being the first) for the new way to present meta-bosses. Arguably, it’s the hardest of them all if you’re in a less-organized map. Meta-bosses whose mechanics are more involved, and which have higher difficulty than the others, are likely going to be last on the list of events to be revamped.

Ive recently finished all Triple Trouble achievements. My observations:

The only successful runs have been with gw2 community, due to the very tight organizing. You simply cant pug this world boss in a group of random puggies, your average player is simply not organized enough, nor is people paying attention to follow the very precisely and tightly tuned phases for the wurms. The times I tried normal pugs, it was a miserable failure, because people woefully underestimated what the group was capable of. Even normal pugs doing just two wurms is failing badly.

Most notably amber and cobalt wurms suffering when theres a lack of coordination. Crimson is a far more pug friendly wurm.

Please don’t make anything easier!

This is one of the few places where, if you get it wrong or your group is clueless you will get mowed down by packs of champions and just hammered to bits. I love it.

Honestly, it’s one of the most fun smack downs around And when you DO get a good group, you know it.

Vinewrath is wicked fun, but honestly, it gets pretty kitten routine.

I think its good that a real organised World Boss exists (and am surprised they didn’t add another with HoT, well they sort of did with Gerrent but even it was just simple mechanicly just had a DPS requirement that wasn’t met much at the start).

Personally love TT. Evening running with a highly experienced guild there can be issues.
Teq is ok as well. The others are a bit meh. Hell, look at the fire elemental – I think once it actually spawns it’s down in what, 15-20 seconds?

I’d like to see more world bosses that are aligned to TT. More involved, multiple working mechanics where timing is important.

It would also be fun to have totally random global bosses spawn where there is little time to organise and it’s just an absolute carnage and very 50/50 whether it’s achieved but reasonable loot. I could imagine the lag and potential server crashes :/

I killed this boss exactly once. Why? Waiting for an hour or clicking “join in” for 30 minutes is too annoying.

IndigoSundown.5419:

TT is one of the prototypes (with Teq being the first) for the new way to present meta-bosses. Arguably, it’s the hardest of them all if you’re in a less-organized map. Meta-bosses whose mechanics are more involved, and which have higher difficulty than the others, are likely going to be last on the list of events to be revamped.

On the other hand on an organized map TT is about the same as Frozen Maw, maybe even a bit easier.

Mortifer.2946:

I killed this boss exactly once. Why? Waiting for an hour or clicking “join in” for 30 minutes is too annoying.

Co-signed.

NO! A big resounding NO!

As I mentioned on my January 26th feedback thread, this is one of the “perfect” world events in the game. The Karka Queen? Seriously? What’s challenging about it? The fact that you are waiting for an organized map is a problem with the community not even bothering trying TT without the familiar commanders. Anyone could command it once they know what to do. Players can also contribute when they know what to do, the necessity for chat/TS use decreases with experience.

I mentioned the Marionette in comparison to Triple Trouble. I am not sure you played it when it came out. The Marionette failed almost every time in the first days and the rate of success was almost 50% by the end of its life. But the players still came to try again and again. God, I do miss those players… Good times.

Khisanth.2948:

IndigoSundown.5419:

TT is one of the prototypes (with Teq being the first) for the new way to present meta-bosses. Arguably, it’s the hardest of them all if you’re in a less-organized map. Meta-bosses whose mechanics are more involved, and which have higher difficulty than the others, are likely going to be last on the list of events to be revamped.

On the other hand on an organized map TT is about the same as Frozen Maw, maybe even a bit easier.

So, we could probably agree that at least some (if not most) of the challenge is in the organizing — which is where the OP proposes changes. I’m not of the opinion that that type of challenge has no place in the game. It’s not something I care for, or I’d still be herding cats in another game… err, raiding. However, I still support ANet offering that kind of thing as long as enough people want it.

Triple Trouble is already not hard if you are willing to put in the effort, listen, and follow instructions for groups who run it. Even getting into a map is not a challenge if you are patient and following what groups/guilds are telling you.

This fight doesn’t need to be changed at all.

Rash.6514:

NO! A big resounding NO!

As I mentioned on my January 26th feedback thread, this is one of the “perfect” world events in the game. The Karka Queen? Seriously? What’s challenging about it? The fact that you are waiting for an organized map is a problem with the community not even bothering trying TT without the familiar commanders. Anyone could command it once they know what to do. Players can also contribute when they know what to do, the necessity for chat/TS use decreases with experience.

I mentioned the Marionette in comparison to Triple Trouble. I am not sure you played it when it came out. The Marionette failed almost every time in the first days and the rate of success was almost 50% by the end of its life. But the players still came to try again and again. God, I do miss those players… Good times.

Marionette also had too much RNG in the mix. For something to be hard or challenging luck should not be such a big factor.

Khisanth.2948:

Rash.6514:

NO! A big resounding NO!

As I mentioned on my January 26th feedback thread, this is one of the “perfect” world events in the game. The Karka Queen? Seriously? What’s challenging about it? The fact that you are waiting for an organized map is a problem with the community not even bothering trying TT without the familiar commanders. Anyone could command it once they know what to do. Players can also contribute when they know what to do, the necessity for chat/TS use decreases with experience.

I mentioned the Marionette in comparison to Triple Trouble. I am not sure you played it when it came out. The Marionette failed almost every time in the first days and the rate of success was almost 50% by the end of its life. But the players still came to try again and again. God, I do miss those players… Good times.

Marionette also had too much RNG in the mix. For something to be hard or challenging luck should not be such a big factor.

What RNG? Practically everything followed a set script.

Ayrilana.1396:

Khisanth.2948:

Rash.6514:

NO! A big resounding NO!

As I mentioned on my January 26th feedback thread, this is one of the “perfect” world events in the game. The Karka Queen? Seriously? What’s challenging about it? The fact that you are waiting for an organized map is a problem with the community not even bothering trying TT without the familiar commanders. Anyone could command it once they know what to do. Players can also contribute when they know what to do, the necessity for chat/TS use decreases with experience.

I mentioned the Marionette in comparison to Triple Trouble. I am not sure you played it when it came out. The Marionette failed almost every time in the first days and the rate of success was almost 50% by the end of its life. But the players still came to try again and again. God, I do miss those players… Good times.

Marionette also had too much RNG in the mix. For something to be hard or challenging luck should not be such a big factor.

What RNG? Practically everything followed a set script.

Distribution of people on the platforms.

Khisanth.2948:

Ayrilana.1396:

Khisanth.2948:

Rash.6514:

NO! A big resounding NO!

As I mentioned on my January 26th feedback thread, this is one of the “perfect” world events in the game. The Karka Queen? Seriously? What’s challenging about it? The fact that you are waiting for an organized map is a problem with the community not even bothering trying TT without the familiar commanders. Anyone could command it once they know what to do. Players can also contribute when they know what to do, the necessity for chat/TS use decreases with experience.

I mentioned the Marionette in comparison to Triple Trouble. I am not sure you played it when it came out. The Marionette failed almost every time in the first days and the rate of success was almost 50% by the end of its life. But the players still came to try again and again. God, I do miss those players… Good times.

Marionette also had too much RNG in the mix. For something to be hard or challenging luck should not be such a big factor.

What RNG? Practically everything followed a set script.

Distribution of people on the platforms.

And? Is that really “too much RNG”? Practically every class combination that I saw were able to beat any of the lanes. This was pretty much a DPS& mechanics meta event.

Ayrilana.1396:

Khisanth.2948:

Ayrilana.1396:

Khisanth.2948:

Rash.6514:

NO! A big resounding NO!

As I mentioned on my January 26th feedback thread, this is one of the “perfect” world events in the game. The Karka Queen? Seriously? What’s challenging about it? The fact that you are waiting for an organized map is a problem with the community not even bothering trying TT without the familiar commanders. Anyone could command it once they know what to do. Players can also contribute when they know what to do, the necessity for chat/TS use decreases with experience.

I mentioned the Marionette in comparison to Triple Trouble. I am not sure you played it when it came out. The Marionette failed almost every time in the first days and the rate of success was almost 50% by the end of its life. But the players still came to try again and again. God, I do miss those players… Good times.

Marionette also had too much RNG in the mix. For something to be hard or challenging luck should not be such a big factor.

What RNG? Practically everything followed a set script.

Distribution of people on the platforms.

And? Is that really “too much RNG”? Practically every class combination that I saw were able to beat any of the lanes. This was pretty much a DPS& mechanics meta event.

It is too much RNG if you want to make any attempt at organizing the thing. Sure ideally everyone in the lane would be equal but that is not reality. There have been runs where one platform breezes through and another already fully wiped not even halfway into the fight. At that point it was already a guaranteed fail for that attempt.

Khisanth.2948:

Ayrilana.1396:

Khisanth.2948:

Ayrilana.1396:

Khisanth.2948:

Rash.6514:

NO! A big resounding NO!

As I mentioned on my January 26th feedback thread, this is one of the “perfect” world events in the game. The Karka Queen? Seriously? What’s challenging about it? The fact that you are waiting for an organized map is a problem with the community not even bothering trying TT without the familiar commanders. Anyone could command it once they know what to do. Players can also contribute when they know what to do, the necessity for chat/TS use decreases with experience.

I mentioned the Marionette in comparison to Triple Trouble. I am not sure you played it when it came out. The Marionette failed almost every time in the first days and the rate of success was almost 50% by the end of its life. But the players still came to try again and again. God, I do miss those players… Good times.

Marionette also had too much RNG in the mix. For something to be hard or challenging luck should not be such a big factor.

What RNG? Practically everything followed a set script.

Distribution of people on the platforms.

And? Is that really “too much RNG”? Practically every class combination that I saw were able to beat any of the lanes. This was pretty much a DPS& mechanics meta event.

It is too much RNG if you want to make any attempt at organizing the thing. Sure ideally everyone in the lane would be equal but that is not reality. There have been runs where one platform breezes through and another already fully wiped not even halfway into the fight. At that point it was already a guaranteed fail for that attempt.

You can’t consider disparities between player skill levels as RNG. Otherwise, everything in this game is “too much RNG”.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I think TT is fine. We need at least one boss in this game that is “the hard boss”, and currently that’s TT.

Agreed. TT was designed to be a challenge for even a lot of people. That’s why it only appears a few times a day. In contrast, Shatterererererererer was never meant to be more than just a 15 minute romp in the Brand.

I hope they give the shattering treatment to the Claw of Jormag, FE, and other so-called world bosses that are boring fights and the Tequatl treatment for Karka Queen (which is too easy).

I understand that the difficulty of the World Boss is pleasing, I did use to raid back in WoW and I enjoyed it myself, what I just don’t enjoy is that -that- is raiding where you know you have veteran players and people who know what to do. It’s just hard in this scenario because you don’t know the players and can get unlucky that no one listens or coordinates or knows what to do which is why it’s good to have those Organized guilds help out such as TTS or EVOS (Right?) but even then you have hundreds wanting to be with them cause they know it will succeed which gives the chance you are not in their maps and stuck on one with say the Exact amount of people you need but NO Coordination.

I’ll keep on trying though, the hours apart between each TT is what bothers me because it really limits me of how many times I can do it each day.

Thanks for the feedback all! I can see that the Wurm fight itself doesn’t need to be changed just moreso … learning it easier and coordinating as well as being on the right map.

Pug maps can succeed with commanders that explain the mechanics before hand and lead each of the wurms. The only part you need with somewhat experienced players is for blocking the eggs but it’s not really all that difficult to learn.

There’s not that much difference between the pug players and those in TTS, ATT, EVOS, and so on when it comes to skill levels. You’d see a wide range of skill levels inside and outside of those guilds.

Edit: Fixed autocorrect errors…

I feel like TT is in a good state.

Although I would like TT nerfed a fraction, what I want wouldn’t be healthy for the game. TT is completable and it would dismiss the hard work of those who have finished it at the right difficulty. What it needs is vastly superior loot to encourage more people to participate/lead/learn.

There are bosses ahead of TT which need looking at long before though
- Karka Queen. I would say of the most urgency since Southson needs all the boost it can get
- Harathi. A bit of a damp squib when you think the centaur meta has followed across 4 maps and ends here
- Taidha. I know she’s only human, but she needs something to make the fight more interesting. Maybe the Fort firing back or something? Maybe she has a monster pet.
- Jormag. Not in a bad place, but could use bringing into line with newer mechanics.

Ayrilana.1396:

Khisanth.2948:

Ayrilana.1396:

Khisanth.2948:

Ayrilana.1396:

Khisanth.2948:

Rash.6514:

NO! A big resounding NO!

As I mentioned on my January 26th feedback thread, this is one of the “perfect” world events in the game. The Karka Queen? Seriously? What’s challenging about it? The fact that you are waiting for an organized map is a problem with the community not even bothering trying TT without the familiar commanders. Anyone could command it once they know what to do. Players can also contribute when they know what to do, the necessity for chat/TS use decreases with experience.

I mentioned the Marionette in comparison to Triple Trouble. I am not sure you played it when it came out. The Marionette failed almost every time in the first days and the rate of success was almost 50% by the end of its life. But the players still came to try again and again. God, I do miss those players… Good times.

Marionette also had too much RNG in the mix. For something to be hard or challenging luck should not be such a big factor.

What RNG? Practically everything followed a set script.

Distribution of people on the platforms.

And? Is that really “too much RNG”? Practically every class combination that I saw were able to beat any of the lanes. This was pretty much a DPS& mechanics meta event.

It is too much RNG if you want to make any attempt at organizing the thing. Sure ideally everyone in the lane would be equal but that is not reality. There have been runs where one platform breezes through and another already fully wiped not even halfway into the fight. At that point it was already a guaranteed fail for that attempt.

You can’t consider disparities between player skill levels as RNG. Otherwise, everything in this game is “too much RNG”.

It is not player skill disparity that is the RNG. It is the inability to organize. There isn’t even a choice to organize. You just take whatever random distribution you get. I am not sure if it ensured somewhat even numbers between platforms. I remember there were platforms with 5 people and then the one next to it had 1.

Khisanth.2948:

Ayrilana.1396:

Khisanth.2948:

Ayrilana.1396:

Khisanth.2948:

Ayrilana.1396:

Khisanth.2948:

Rash.6514:

NO! A big resounding NO!

As I mentioned on my January 26th feedback thread, this is one of the “perfect” world events in the game. The Karka Queen? Seriously? What’s challenging about it? The fact that you are waiting for an organized map is a problem with the community not even bothering trying TT without the familiar commanders. Anyone could command it once they know what to do. Players can also contribute when they know what to do, the necessity for chat/TS use decreases with experience.

I mentioned the Marionette in comparison to Triple Trouble. I am not sure you played it when it came out. The Marionette failed almost every time in the first days and the rate of success was almost 50% by the end of its life. But the players still came to try again and again. God, I do miss those players… Good times.

Marionette also had too much RNG in the mix. For something to be hard or challenging luck should not be such a big factor.

What RNG? Practically everything followed a set script.

Distribution of people on the platforms.

And? Is that really “too much RNG”? Practically every class combination that I saw were able to beat any of the lanes. This was pretty much a DPS& mechanics meta event.

It is too much RNG if you want to make any attempt at organizing the thing. Sure ideally everyone in the lane would be equal but that is not reality. There have been runs where one platform breezes through and another already fully wiped not even halfway into the fight. At that point it was already a guaranteed fail for that attempt.

You can’t consider disparities between player skill levels as RNG. Otherwise, everything in this game is “too much RNG”.

It is not player skill disparity that is the RNG. It is the inability to organize. There isn’t even a choice to organize. You just take whatever random distribution you get. I am not sure if it ensured somewhat even numbers between platforms. I remember there were platforms with 5 people and then the one next to it had 1.

Players were evenly split. If they weren’t, that would be a bug. You do not need to organize for the bosses other than to evenly split up between the lanes. The mechanics of the bosses could be accomplished by every class. There wasn’t anything that required a specific class in order to complete. You just needed to know the mechanics and have enough DPS.

I think the random distribution in Marionette was on purpose and well thought. Back then there was no need for healers or “tanks”. The RNG there, as others have already said, was mixing too many players that didn’t know what to do on the same platform. But the game can’t be balanced for players that don’t know what to do, but for players willing to learn what to do. Check the raids.