We love this game - not the direction
It will be months before we’ll really be able to see how the new player experience is going, and seeing as how very few people actually use mediums like this forum etc, we’ll have to wait until Arenanet comes out and say it was a success or if they need to rethink their approach.
What I’d love to see is the actual data that is saying that new players are actually have difficulties and where.
We’ll know if this gambit is successful only after the first free weekend is done…probably a couple of months after that.
Because I’m sure that’s why these changes were made. Not to inconvenience us. To grow the player base.
If they wait long enough, the people who want new sPvP and dungeon content will move on to other games. I guess that’s like a win for them, somehow?
I’d love for them to focus on polish over content, honestly. The problem is, as always, “the Monkey’s Paw” issue of asking for stuff . . .
If they wait long enough, the people who want new sPvP and dungeon content will move on to other games. I guess that’s like a win for them, somehow?
It might not be a loss. Depends on how many people leave and how many new people come.
I closed the mac department of my computer store, and focused entirely on PC. I lost every single mac customer and I had a quite a few. And man they were not happy about it and they made no bones about telling me so.
But I made more money getting rid of that department than I did keeping it.
If they wait long enough, the people who want new sPvP and dungeon content will move on to other games. I guess that’s like a win for them, somehow?
It might not be a loss. Depends on how many people leave and how many new people come.
I closed the mac department of my computer store, and focused entirely on PC. I lost every single mac customer and I had a quite a few. And man they were not happy about it and they made no bones about telling me so.
But I made more money getting rid of that department than I did keeping it.
. . . as a part-time Mac user, I feel slightly sad. However, given that I am a gamer first, that means I really have to avoid Macs as being really sorta kinda maybe a little outside a sane budget for me to work with anyway
Honestly, if ANet is going to be trimming features in their own game to make it less intimidating to new players, then we’re going to have to talk about the elephant in the room: the Holy Trinity.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m fine with the current non-holy trinity system, but many games use it, anyone who has experience in other MMOs will be more familiar with that playstyle, and the boring and straightforward nature of the trinity also makes it extremely easy to learn for those who have don’t have experience in MMOs. It already seems like ANet is starting to flirt with that concept given the recent introduction of the Nomad set (and possibly the upcoming Forsaken and Apostate sets, which seem like off-tanking stats).
I doubt ANet will remove dodging altogether, but does anyone else think they’ll be making tanking and healing viable alternatives to dodging? Would it be a reasonable expectation to see this change if the goal is to grow the player base by appealing to people who found GW2 to be too complicated or different?
(edited by Pandaman.4758)
If they wait long enough, the people who want new sPvP and dungeon content will move on to other games. I guess that’s like a win for them, somehow?
It might not be a loss. Depends on how many people leave and how many new people come.
I closed the mac department of my computer store, and focused entirely on PC. I lost every single mac customer and I had a quite a few. And man they were not happy about it and they made no bones about telling me so.
But I made more money getting rid of that department than I did keeping it.
. . . as a part-time Mac user, I feel slightly sad. However, given that I am a gamer first, that means I really have to avoid Macs as being really sorta kinda maybe a little outside a sane budget for me to work with anyway
The money it costs to run the mac department didn’t justify the staff I had to pay to man the mac department, the complaints about service, which were usually due to parts that Apple wouldn’t ship to us because they were back ordered, and other fun stuff like that. It wasn’t an easily made decision. I didn’t laugh aloud and rub my hands together in glee, counting the dollars I made from expanding my PC selection. I did what I had to do for the business while feeling bad for the mac customers.
I think Anet is doing that to some degree with some of it’s customers. They’re not some evil villain in a cartoon twirling their mustache and laughing at our misforune. They’re a business that has to make decisions all the time. Some of those decisions will be good, and some will be bad. Some we won’t understand because we’re not in that business. We dont’ see what goes on day to day. And no amount of posts on the forum are really going to give us that perspective.
Honestly, if ANet is going to be trimming features in their own game to make it less intimidating to new players, then we’re going to have to talk about the elephant in the room: the Holy Trinity.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m fine with the current non-holy trinity system, but many games use it, anyone who has experience in other MMOs will be more familiar with that playstyle, and the boring and straightforward nature of the trinity also makes it extremely easy to learn for those who have don’t have experience in MMOs. It already seems like ANet is starting to flirt with that concept given the recent introduction of the Nomad set (and possibly the upcoming Forsaken and Apostate sets, which seem like off-tanking stats).
I doubt they’ll remove dodging altogether, but does anyone else think they’ll be making tanking and healing viable alternatives to dodging? Would it be a reasonable expectation to see this change if the goal is to grow the player base by appealing to people who didn’t like GW2?
I wouldn’t be surprised if upper management was ordering them to make it more like WoW/other MMOs. I don’t think they’ll do it, though.
Oh, but that would be rich: Lots of people asking for new classes, and they add the GW1 monk as a healbot class. Total Monkey’s paw.
I wouldn’t be surprised if upper management was ordering them to make it more like WoW/other MMOs. I don’t think they’ll do it, though.
Oh, but that would be rich: Lots of people asking for new classes, and they add the GW1 monk as a healbot class.
I actually kind of liked playing a monk…..
Oh, did I just say that? Uh, I mean, Rangers and Dervish MACE RACE….uh, PROFESSION
I’ve heard many reason why people have quit, but it being “hard” has never been among them to very much extent.
The people for whom “this game wasn’t for them” ..they complained about the lack of trinity (or at least meaningful non-dps roles) in combat. They complained about the lack of linear questing so they “didn’t know what to do”. If they stuck around to max level, they complained about “no endgame”.
The leveling experience has never been perfect. The #1 reason for that is it was (and still is) it’s too easy to end up under-leveled for content because nothing gives enough exp. The Personal Story would have been fine if it alone gave enough exp to keep up with itself. If players could progress to each step of the story without levels being an issue, that already had plenty of “direction”. Then the hearts, events, etc were just bonus.
But instead when you feel you’re ready to check out the next area or story instance (and you don’t know to “cheat” by going to a different starter zone) ..you find yourself still too weak and have to grind more, not for fun, but for power needed just to proceed. It never was, and still isn’t, a consistent leveling experience. Level-gating and forcing us to grind does NOT fix this. Giving more exp would though. Or even better, just do away with levels all together. But I guess Anet is too afraid to depart much from"tradition" (unless it’s their own).
That has nothing to do with players being unable to grasp the concept of downed, dodge, skill points, more than 2 skills, etc. With this update, they have NOT addressed what has always been the issue with leveling, and instead “fixed” other things that weren’t really broken.
And while they thought they were fixing things, that was resources and dev time that COULD HAVE been going to content and features people actually wanted. Anet already has shamelessly pandered much more than they should have to the wow-crowd. But they weren’t ready to turn GW2 into a 100% wow clone, so those players left. Some before max level, some after. But you know what? Look at all the other wow clones. People still leave. They always leave because if wow is what they really want, they already have it. Anet made several huge mistakes trying to acquire that playerbase rather than playing to their strengths ..the philosophies they made their name on in the first place (very low level / gear cap, massive amounts of actual permanent content / story, more guild features, etc).
This game had incredible potential to be so much better, but they’ve spent the past 2yrs squandering that. It does still have a ton going for it. It really does have a lot of great features and it amazes me when new games come out that still do things the “old way”. I believe Anet should get credit where credit is due.
BUT they’ve made multiple decisions contrary to that also. Rather than forging ahead and continuing to be trend-setters, they have bent over backwards trying to appease a certain type of player who simply isn’t going to be won-over, at least not long term. In addition to that, they’ve put out embarrassingly little content in all this time. The world and the things we can do in it has barely been expanded at all since release. And because of all this, they have harmed their standing with a lot of players who actually did want to stay with them long term.
Server: Tarnished Coast
Honestly I think the direction GW is going is ok. The new NPE has a lot of good qualities but for Veterans it kinda stepped on their toes (alts) so I think that is something that should be looked at, at least. GW both 1&2 had the best community compared to any other mmo IMHO so they have that going for them. What I hope they do its of course focus on bringing in new players but at the same time it has to be a balance because as a GW1 vet and GW2 since launch Vet I don’t want them to stop thinking about me BUT the new CDI imo is a 10/10 and if more are too come I am feeling very good.
GW FOR LIFE! :P Bring back CANTHA/ELONA!!! (after all Tyria is explorable of course lol)(I want my cake and be able to eat it too!!)
NPE isn’t all doom and gloom, but the way they implemented skill and utility gating (and going further back, traits) is actually broken (in some specific cases) and just isn’t fun. If I wanted that experience I could get it in every other cookie cutter mmo on the market.
Honestly, if ANet is going to be trimming features in their own game to make it less intimidating to new players, then we’re going to have to talk about the elephant in the room: the Holy Trinity.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m fine with the current non-holy trinity system, but many games use it, anyone who has experience in other MMOs will be more familiar with that playstyle, and the boring and straightforward nature of the trinity also makes it extremely easy to learn for those who have don’t have experience in MMOs. It already seems like ANet is starting to flirt with that concept given the recent introduction of the Nomad set (and possibly the upcoming Forsaken and Apostate sets, which seem like off-tanking stats).
I doubt they’ll remove dodging altogether, but does anyone else think they’ll be making tanking and healing viable alternatives to dodging? Would it be a reasonable expectation to see this change if the goal is to grow the player base by appealing to people who didn’t like GW2?
I wouldn’t be surprised if upper management was ordering them to make it more like WoW/other MMOs. I don’t think they’ll do it, though.
Oh, but that would be rich: Lots of people asking for new classes, and they add the GW1 monk as a healbot class. Total Monkey’s paw.
They have wildstar metrics (which are not great) if upper management need to see what a draw a trinity system is over what GW2 has now.
NPE isn’t all doom and gloom, but the way they implemented skill and utility gating (and going further back, traits) is actually broken (in some specific cases) and just isn’t fun. If I wanted that experience I could get it in every other cookie cutter mmo on the market.
The more this game becomes like a F2P cookie-cutter MMO, the more players it will lose. Many of us liked GW2 because it was different. Fast leveling, no grind for max gear (until they added ascended), jumping puzzles which are far better than what other MMO’s had to offer, WvWvW mode (although it had a few major problems at launch)
Instead of improving on GW2’s assets, instead we just get the same level-gating features that we’ve played in every MMO before this one. GW2 was great because it tried to reinvent the wheel, and succeeded at various levels in some of those attempts (well, not so much with the focus on the Living Story). But, the game has taken a complete 180 from where it was at launch, and now it is becoming any other MMO with boring quests and simplistic gameplay.
I logged in tonight to play, and it seems that map chat is dead even in WvWvW mode. When it’s not dead, it’s somebody complaining about NPE. It seems that a lot of people have already decided to give GW2 a pass until Arenanet makes an official announcement on which of these changes are here to stay.
I logged in tonight to play, and it seems that map chat is dead even in WvWvW mode. When it’s not dead, it’s somebody complaining about NPE. It seems that a lot of people have already decided to give GW2 a pass until Arenanet makes an official announcement on which of these changes are here to stay.
I had this experience before tonight, except when there was a group at world bosses. Most WvWvW chatter is more on the TS, or small status reports in /team . . . occasionally you’ll get a request for information or help but they’re not often.
Oh, and Lion’s Arch is still a cesspool people try to start “discussions” of politics or religion in semi-constantly.
But on the other hand, it’s not all that much different than before 9/9.
NPE isn’t all doom and gloom, but the way they implemented skill and utility gating (and going further back, traits) is actually broken (in some specific cases) and just isn’t fun. If I wanted that experience I could get it in every other cookie cutter mmo on the market.
The more this game becomes like a F2P cookie-cutter MMO, the more players it will lose. Many of us liked GW2 because it was different. Fast leveling, no grind for max gear (until they added ascended), jumping puzzles which are far better than what other MMO’s had to offer, WvWvW mode (although it had a few major problems at launch)
Instead of improving on GW2’s assets, instead we just get the same level-gating features that we’ve played in every MMO before this one. GW2 was great because it tried to reinvent the wheel, and succeeded at various levels in some of those attempts (well, not so much with the focus on the Living Story). But, the game has taken a complete 180 from where it was at launch, and now it is becoming any other MMO with boring quests and simplistic gameplay.
I logged in tonight to play, and it seems that map chat is dead even in WvWvW mode. When it’s not dead, it’s somebody complaining about NPE. It seems that a lot of people have already decided to give GW2 a pass until Arenanet makes an official announcement on which of these changes are here to stay.
You know, I agree with your first line. But I don’t feel that this game is becoming like an MMO cookie cutter game.
They have changed gating at the earlier levels of the game, but nothing near what most MMOs ask of you while leveling. We’ve gotten a single tier of gear in a year, and no sign of another tier in sight. We have a living story that most cookie cutter MMOs don’t have (whether you like that or not), and no annouced expansions which most free to play MMOs do have.
The core differences are still there. Active combat, no competition for nodes and kills, no trinity. These are still in game.
People are saying a few of the recent changes make this a cookie cutter MMO, but it still feels completely different to me. You can do most stuff from level one, even though it takes longer to unlock skills, and you can turn off the tracking thing, which is something a lot of vets will likely do, but it’s there for you to use as well.
Adjustments will be made to make it more palatable, and life goes on. But if this was like the other MMOs out there, I wouldn’t be playing it. It will take a lot more for early level gating to make this a cookie cutter MMO.
Vayne, and how can be removal of any semi-advanced mechanics from the starter zones made more palatable? If I was to dance with cows, rub corn and fight creatures without any kind of conditions and “confusing” attacks for my whole noobhood, I’d probably throw the piece of digital crap away. Or just “play with myself”, because it takes about the same amount of intelligence and coordination, just gives more pleasure. I’m simply too disgusted to enter starter zones right now.
BTW, with the megaserver crowds there IS a neverending competition to tag and kill in all the more popular events.
William S. Burroughs
(edited by Asmodeus.5782)
The core differences are still there. Active combat, no competition for nodes and kills, no trinity. These are still in game.
Those have been the only thing keeping me playing the game. That, and WvWvW mode.
Most WvWvW chatter is more on the TS, or small status reports in /team . . . occasionally you’ll get a request for information or help but they’re not often.
Map chat is usually pretty busy on my server. But, nothing seemed to be going on. There were a couple of commanders there (who I had never seen command) but I was really surprised at the lack of chatter.
I might have just caught them at a dead time. I might consider logging in tomorrow and see if I get the same results.
Oh, and Lion’s Arch is still a cesspool people try to start “discussions” of politics or religion in semi-constantly.
Yeah, the one map where there definitely wasn’t a lack of chatter was Lion’s Arch. In fact, there was still too much chatter going on, there.
Vayne, and how can be removal of any semi-advanced mechanics from the starter zones made more palatable? If I was to dance with cows, rub corn and fight creatures without any kind of conditions and “confusing” attacks for my whole noobhood, I’d probably throw the piece of digital crap away. Or just “play with myself”, because it takes about the same amount of intelligence and coordination, just gives more pleasure. I’m simply too disgusted to enter starter zones right now.
BTW, with the megaserver crowds there IS a neverending competition to tag and kill in all the more popular events.
I don’t agree with them remove the cow bundles and feeding the cows. That’s one change I didn’t like. However, new people do not have the same expectations of the game as people who played it had have nothing to compare it to. I’d have thought it was dorky as hell, and shrugged it off and saw other stuff. I mean, I think that about the cow costume thing in Diessa Plateau already. I did that event exactly once and never again.
But I strongly suspect that that one event or example doesn’t change the fact that people, new people, will feel rewarded with these “unlocks”, until they get to the next unlock.
It’s sad you have to put stuff in games like this to capture market sure, but you probably do.
Frankly, I blame WoW. lol
Here I was hoping for Polymock at some point soon. Nope, would be to confusing for new players.
Here I was hoping for Polymock at some point soon. Nope, would be to confusing for new players.
That’s simple to fix. Just add a tutorial bout before starting the actual matches, like in the previous game.
Oh and while they’re at it, they could bring Golem Chessboards to Rata Sum somewhere in a seedy little game parlor. Including a skritt trying to beg for shinies and sylvari trying to understand what this “Ooze Booze” was and why people drank it if it made them feel sick the next day.
That’s simple to fix. Just add a tutorial bout before starting the actual matches, like in the previous game.
You mean, like, a real tutorial? Wouldn’t it just be better to level-gate Polymock until your character has 300 skill points?
That’s simple to fix. Just add a tutorial bout before starting the actual matches, like in the previous game.
You mean, like, a real tutorial? Wouldn’t it just be better to level-gate Polymock until your character has 300 skill points?
Better as in easier? Sure.
Better as in nicer? Not really. What I mean is the whole “forced tutorial” sort of thing. Harder to do I think, since there’s no quest log to keep track of what you’ve finished . . . making it 0pt achievements seems clunky to me . . .
But it would have to require a tutorial. It was a little complex in the first game – I never finished that chain
@Tobias You know what little chess games etc.. in towns actually sounds like a fun idea! I can imagine a little corner of each town where people huddle around each game piece. “NO YOUR DOING IT WRONG” one person tells another. “Hey my tactics are THE BEST” the player responds lol!
(edited by Zoso.8279)
@Tobias You know what little chess games etc.. in towns actually sounds like a fun idea! I can imagine a little corner of each town where people huddle around each game piece. “NO YOUR DOING IT WRONG” one person tells another. “Hey my tactics are THE BEST” the player responds lol!
Indeed. As odd as it was, I did enjoy Belcher’s Bluff (except for that freaking Irongut . . . cheating son of a warg . . .) and the other minigames I tried. Southsun Survival (wasn’t TOO good at it though), Aspect Arena . . .
Honestly, if ANet is going to be trimming features in their own game to make it less intimidating to new players, then we’re going to have to talk about the elephant in the room: the Holy Trinity.
They could easily convert the game to a trinity system, I mean there’s already a watered down version already, and if they’re trying to retain players then they’ll have to explore that option. Is it worth to their bank account keeping a non-trinity system or not? I mean, if it’s what a large group of players like to have and all…
We’ll know if this gambit is successful only after the first free weekend is done…probably a couple of months after that.
Because I’m sure that’s why these changes were made. Not to inconvenience us. To grow the player base.
If they’d like to grow the playerbase there are three areas I can tell them to work on right now that will do it instead of fixing yet another something that wasn’t broken in their Feature Patch 3. Remove gold entirely from the cost of progression (this includes traits, sigils, runes, and gear), make diversity a thing in PVE again (this includes fixing all of the problems they can in every class that’s caused them to nerf PVE, things like Kit Refinement rollback and condition damage builds and make healing a real life thing for every class with healing skills), fix the rewards system post level 80 in the open world (remove DR entirely because it’s never been effective at removing bots or gold farmers, eliminate some of the RNG from crafting, allow for the trading of Tier 7 and karma for essential Tier 6 crafting materials like lodestones).
Those three things have been the most complained about items in the game in these forums yet we’re sitting at the 2 year mark and they’ve not even been mentioned by the developers in all this time.
We’ll know if this gambit is successful only after the first free weekend is done…probably a couple of months after that.
Because I’m sure that’s why these changes were made. Not to inconvenience us. To grow the player base.
If they’d like to grow the playerbase there are three areas I can tell them to work on right now that will do it instead of fixing yet another something that wasn’t broken in their Feature Patch 3. Remove gold entirely from the cost of progression (this includes traits, sigils, runes, and gear), make diversity a thing in PVE again (this includes fixing all of the problems they can in every class that’s caused them to nerf PVE, things like Kit Refinement rollback and condition damage builds and make healing a real life thing for every class with healing skills), fix the rewards system post level 80 in the open world (remove DR entirely because it’s never been effective at removing bots or gold farmers, eliminate some of the RNG from crafting, allow for the trading of Tier 7 and karma for essential Tier 6 crafting materials like lodestones).
Those three things have been the most complained about items in the game in these forums yet we’re sitting at the 2 year mark and they’ve not even been mentioned by the developers in all this time.
I know you think those things would grow the player base. Those things won’t. New content might, but not that.
I know you believe these things would grow the player base. I think they wouldn’t have much effect at all.
Most WvWvW chatter is more on the TS, or small status reports in /team . . . occasionally you’ll get a request for information or help but they’re not often.
Map chat is usually pretty busy on my server. But, nothing seemed to be going on. There were a couple of commanders there (who I had never seen command) but I was really surprised at the lack of chatter.
I might have just caught them at a dead time. I might consider logging in tomorrow and see if I get the same results.
Oh, and Lion’s Arch is still a cesspool people try to start “discussions” of politics or religion in semi-constantly.
Yeah, the one map where there definitely wasn’t a lack of chatter was Lion’s Arch. In fact, there was still too much chatter going on, there.
Most WvW people I know don’t chat in map chat, they go onto the mumble server for TC. That’s where most of the talking seems to happen.
I think it’s brilliant. Strip away stuff you already have and then spoon feed it back to you little by little by gating it so that you feel rewarded when you unlock said gate. They made an entire new reward system without adding anything new to the game, GENIUS!
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
They have wildstar metrics (which are not great) if upper management need to see what a draw a trinity system is over what GW2 has now.
I wouldn’t say it’s a draw, per se, but rather the game strongly discouraging (to the point of being downright punitive) trinity could very well be one of the many issues raised by the people who didn’t take to GW2. Having a the trinity won’t attract players, but it might keep players who approach GW2 with old MMO preconceptions long enough for them to appreciate the active combat system.
Because, really, anyone new to this game who tries to play a tank or healer is going to have a bad time and likely leave if they don’t adapt; there’s only so much ANet can do to retain these kinds of players, making the trinity viable being one of them.
They could easily convert the game to a trinity system, I mean there’s already a watered down version already, and if they’re trying to retain players then they’ll have to explore that option. Is it worth
to their bank accountkeeping a non-trinity system or not? I mean, if it’s what a large group of players like to have and all…
Indeed, while there will be a lot of balancing that needs to be done under the hood, the immediate changes would be to boost healing power scaling, toughness damage reduction, the aggro formula for every creature type, and introduce healing/tanking stat gear (which I believe they’re already doing with Nomad).
I don’t think such a change would have a large negative impact on GW2, provided the trinity remains a viable alternative instead of supplanting the current system.