We should have gotten a hero point reset

We should have gotten a hero point reset

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Posted by: Phyrex.5174

Phyrex.5174

Title says it all.
Why oh why, after doing a such a giant change with the skills and trait would they not just reset our things and leave it at that ?

I feel like trying to mirror our old build is utterly idiotic.
They changed everything about the system ? Thats means obviously you cant mirror the old build perfectly, inducing mistakes but theres also been so many changes, i wouldve done many things differently rather than want my old build at all cost.

An excellent example is on my lvl17 elementalist. in the old system, frostbow is a second tier skill and it was easy to get.

Now, frostbow is the second to last skill in the conjured weapon track, and since i had it equipped, the game sank all my point so i could still have it, so now i have all 4 conjured weapons.
lightning hammer was a tier 3 skill before, now its the second in line. had i made my character post-patch, i wouldve have only gotten lava axe and lightning hammer and spent my points elsewhere.

Overall im saying its dumb that they forced the spending of hero points on us and not just let us rediscover everything. especially since because of the change, a few people ended up with builds and point spread completly wrong

We should have gotten a hero point reset

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Posted by: ScribeTheMad.7614

ScribeTheMad.7614

They covered this on here somewhere, but to summarize:
They debated it.
And felt more newer/less experienced players would be hurt by being left with blank builds than experts would be by having some stuff picked for them.

“The short answer is that new content is not going to drive people away from the game.
There is absolutely no evidence to support that it would.” -AnthonyOrdon

We should have gotten a hero point reset

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Posted by: Phyrex.5174

Phyrex.5174

They covered this on here somewhere, but to summarize:
They debated it.
And felt more newer/less experienced players would be hurt by being left with blank builds than experts would be by having some stuff picked for them.

Thats a…pretty ridiculous logic.
New players will have to learn the system anyway and i know a few “new players” who were left utterly confused because that “picking for them” thingy left them with a spread of skills and traits they didint want/didint matched what they found fun.
Especially considering the huge change to many things there was.

I mentionned my ele but i can name my necro too, now she’s stuck with the right skill but she was given a specialization that dosent match at all the build i was gonig for pre-patch. Now its just confusing and really boring to play with an completly dysfunctional build

We should have gotten a hero point reset

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Posted by: Mightylink.3816

Mightylink.3816

This is why this game needs a PTR server, this would of been decided weeks ago, if it was ever put to a vote I’m sure it would be 90-95% in favor of the reset. Instead Arenanet has to play dictator on us and make us play their way instead of how we want to play…

Mightylink – Norn Necromancer
Mythiclink – Asura Engineer

We should have gotten a hero point reset

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Posted by: Phyrex.5174

Phyrex.5174

This is why this game needs a PTR server, this would of been decided weeks ago, if it was ever put to a vote I’m sure it would be 90-95% in favor of the reset. Instead Arenanet has to play dictator on us and make us play their way instead of how we want to play…

Cant speak against that, the way things were done is almost a slap in the face of anyone who isint 80, just started a character or by some luck got assigned the build they wanted to play with.

Worst is, i actually like the new system, its just that the way they did the transition for any toon not lvl80 is actually even more confusing then just relearning the system from scratch.

Now a person returns to the game to see this new point system already spent in multiple places and see things she didint want

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

Are you going to address how you forced characters to train into builds using their hero points without their consent? :o

Why not. Basically there were two options, both with a large number of edge cases.

1) We wipe your stuff and let you respec as you see fit. Because so much had changed this was our initial plan. Here are problems it ran into.

  • People return from a long hiatus and don’t remember what they were running
  • People log in and the first thing they have to do before they can play is learn both the new unlocking system and the new build system.

2) We look at what you had equipped and unlock the necessary skills and traits to re-equip you. Here were some discussions points around that:

  • We might give you stuff you don’t want
  • at least this won’t matter for lvl 80s if we make all the unlocks possible by just reaching lvl 80.

There is a third option which I’m sure you will bring up.
3) let players choose
Here are some reasons we did not go with that:

  • Its twice the work
  • Its actually more than twice the work because it would have required temporarily saving both options until you choose which is more complex technical work.
  • People who were unlikely to understand or want to explore the new system were going to be potentially more confused by the choice.

At the end of the day we wanted to ship this build so we had to decide. Based on instinct we erred on the side of helping people we thought would be more overwhelmed by the opposite choice, and I would make that choice again because it has less edge cases, impacts more expert users, and leans towards over unlocking for free to benefit most of the edge cases anyway.

Hope this info helps you understand our process a bit more.

Thanks,

Jon

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Posted by: simplesimon.2084

simplesimon.2084

Now if they had reset hero point option it wouldn’t be an issue. They could of done the preselection so people could just jump in and play, and those that didn’t like what they got could just reset it and choose there own.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

FIrst of all, I wish people would stop using the term “slap in the face”, because it’s either hyperbole, or you’re misusing it. Either way…

They can’t let you reset the points you’ve bought, because it goes against the idea of unlocking traits. This is only a problem for a character the first time you go through as you’re leveling and in a few levels will work itself out anyway. Just go hunt down some hero point challenges. This is a transitional problem that doesn’t affect new characters at all. Just existing ones, that were caught in the transition.

It’s like skills, In the old days, if you bought a skill, you couldn’t refund that and buy a different skill. The idea was to make the choosing of skills as you level something that has weight behind it. That if you buy the wrong one and don’t have points. you have to wait for the next one. Core specializations now work the same way and for any new character created with give that same issue.

Is it inconvenient? Sure, it’s annoying for a few levels. You play for a few hours and it’s all gone, you’ll have more points, you’ll have unlocked different traits. It’s really a small inconvenience. It’s not a slap in the face.

Because it’s a transitional situation and not something most players have to deal with, there was zero reason to take the developer time to develop a system that would only be used once, during the transitional period.

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Posted by: simplesimon.2084

simplesimon.2084

FIrst of all, I wish people would stop using the term “slap in the face”, because it’s either hyperbole, or you’re misusing it. Either way…

They can’t let you reset the points you’ve bought, because it goes against the idea of unlocking traits. This is only a problem for a character the first time you go through as you’re leveling and in a few levels will work itself out anyway. Just go hunt down some hero point challenges. This is a transitional problem that doesn’t affect new characters at all. Just existing ones, that were caught in the transition.

It’s like skills, In the old days, if you bought a skill, you couldn’t refund that and buy a different skill. The idea was to make the choosing of skills as you level something that has weight behind it. That if you buy the wrong one and don’t have points. you have to wait for the next one. Core specializations now work the same way and for any new character created with give that same issue.

Is it inconvenient? Sure, it’s annoying for a few levels. You play for a few hours and it’s all gone, you’ll have more points, you’ll have unlocked different traits. It’s really a small inconvenience. It’s not a slap in the face.

Because it’s a transitional situation and not something most players have to deal with, there was zero reason to take the developer time to develop a system that would only be used once, during the transitional period.

Don’t you think it took the developers more time to make an algorithm that looked at your current build and then buy skills based off that build then it would of just to leave everyone blank.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

FIrst of all, I wish people would stop using the term “slap in the face”, because it’s either hyperbole, or you’re misusing it. Either way…

They can’t let you reset the points you’ve bought, because it goes against the idea of unlocking traits. This is only a problem for a character the first time you go through as you’re leveling and in a few levels will work itself out anyway. Just go hunt down some hero point challenges. This is a transitional problem that doesn’t affect new characters at all. Just existing ones, that were caught in the transition.

It’s like skills, In the old days, if you bought a skill, you couldn’t refund that and buy a different skill. The idea was to make the choosing of skills as you level something that has weight behind it. That if you buy the wrong one and don’t have points. you have to wait for the next one. Core specializations now work the same way and for any new character created with give that same issue.

Is it inconvenient? Sure, it’s annoying for a few levels. You play for a few hours and it’s all gone, you’ll have more points, you’ll have unlocked different traits. It’s really a small inconvenience. It’s not a slap in the face.

Because it’s a transitional situation and not something most players have to deal with, there was zero reason to take the developer time to develop a system that would only be used once, during the transitional period.

Don’t you think it took the developers more time to make an algorithm that looked at your current build and then buy skills based off that build then it would of just to leave everyone blank.

I’m not sure there’s even an algorythm, but yes, I believe that they worked out how most people leveling would be affected.

You seem to be laboring under the assumption that most people who play this game think about traits or specializations at all. I’m guessing that’s probably not true. Devs have certainly implied that’s not true in the past.

In the past, when they’ve reset traits, people ran around without any points in traits for ages. They just didn’t have them. In fact, even I’ve gone and found after certain patches with the number of characters I have, that I forgot to give character’s a build.

I’m almost certain more people would have not had builds at all and found the game much harder, than the people who, while leveling are particularly about their build. I mean hell, even knowing about builds, I never bothered with a build while leveling.

So even with characters leveling, it wouldn’t affect me in my play style.

The people affected by this are people with characters like from level 15 to level 79, who care about builds while leveling, who are aware of/conscious of builds in the first place.

I’m pretty sure that it’s a smaller group than people who level and basically ignore builds until they’re 80. Remember, new characters don’t have this problem. And it’s solved but running around and doing skill point challenges. It’s not like you can’t unlock new core specializations as you continue to level.

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Posted by: kleisthenes.6247

kleisthenes.6247

Is it inconvenient? Sure, it’s annoying for a few levels. You play for a few hours and it’s all gone, you’ll have more points, you’ll have unlocked different traits. It’s really a small inconvenience. It’s not a slap in the face.

Because it’s a transitional situation and not something most players have to deal with, there was zero reason to take the developer time to develop a system that would only be used once, during the transitional period.

Few levels is an understatement, and saying that you only play for a few hours to get the trait spec you want is a massive understatement. It’s a massive inconvenience for anyone with lower level characters that didn’t have enough hero points to get at least two trait lines.

I got stuck with the wilderness survival, while that wasn’t at all what I was going for. I felt really confused when I didn’t see my skills, skills I had carefully chosen that was just swapped out.

That kinda speaks against the whole idea of the RPG genre. You’re supposed to control your character, not the devs control it for you.

The way I see it this was a real slap in the face. I’m not happy at all, in fact I’m really angry about this.

You know what is worse than making the wrong choice yourself? Having someone make the wrong choice for you. And it’s infuriating.

“The two most powerful warriors are patience and time.”

(edited by kleisthenes.6247)

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Posted by: Bekkr.6192

Bekkr.6192

Well, I’m annoyed also. I’ve got several mid-level characters, and not one of them has a build that I’d call the same as what they had previously. Some aren’t even really similar, or indeed relevant given the changes. It would have been nice to at least been given the option to start from scratch. I don’t really think the two problems they saw with doing that as being very problematic at all. If someone hadn’t played in that long that they didn’t remember what build they were using, certainly having to look at various build options is a good thing?

But this weird something kind of like the build you had, sorta thing feels like a waste of time for them to have implemented.

Because it’s a transitional situation and not something most players have to deal with, there was zero reason to take the developer time to develop a system that would only be used once, during the transitional period.

I couldn’t agree more.

The problem with the youth of today is that one is no longer part of it.
-Salvador Dali

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

As the Jon Peters post Ayrilana linked points out, this is not a problem for 80’s. Now, I had two lower level characters who were negatively impacted. Since I had no desire to play them with the spec line they were given, I deleted them. Problem solved, with some residual resentment left. The L21 in particular, was not given a line I had chosen, as I had no trait points at L21 under the old system. A line was just chosen arbitrarily.

While the point about more work to implement is understandable in light of offering options for either a reset or an auto-build, it would have been easier to just reset all characters than to devise the one-shot auto-build system. Thus, doing more work was OK as long as it was catering to people who prefer not to think.