Guild Wars 2

This is in another thread, posted by Colin…leaving it here for people to read and comment on. I don’t think a comment like this should get lost in the middle of another thread.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Misconceptions-regarding-Level-gating/page/4#post4396936

Hey folks,

Wanted to pop by and give another update on where we stand, as well as to help provide some information on some of the more common misconceptions we’ve seen floating around as well:

- There are bugs! We’ve seen the content direction system (the little arrow) pointing people at super high level maps when it shouldn’t, some systems/features not unlocking as intended for all characters on your account once your first learns them, some systems level gated that aren’t intended to be, balance issues where certain levels appear to be very out of whack, etc. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, our team is working to figure out what happened here and fix these as quickly as possible.

- There is misinformation: Numerous systems that show up in the level up guide that teaches you about things in the game when you gain levels are not locked out, the system simply tells you they exist in the game to help give you a better list of things you can do. Just because it’s included in the level up guide, doesn’t mean it’s actually locked out. You can dodge from level one, jumping puzzle from level one, etc. There also appear to be a lot of folks chiming in who haven’t actually played with any of the system, and are making claims that aren’t remotely true.

- There are some things happening at the wrong levels. Things like utility skills and elites are intended to come at approx. the same time they used to in actual game time, we sped up leveling for levels 1-15 and had them slide back in levels a bit to offset that pacing, they are not currently where we want them to be in the level up system. This was an oversight, and will absolutely be fixed.
- Not all of these changes were made as ways to teach the game, some of them are to provide a better sense of pacing, reward and progression. Early on we want to give a sense that you’re rapidly gaining new abilities, rewards, and learning new things as you level up. We added the level up reward messages, and the actual rewards themselves, and took abilities you’d usually use around that point in total game hours and presented them as unlocks (or things we teach that are already unlocked) to help give a better sense of pacing and progression.

With the addition of the new rewards, messaging, and level up screen to make leveling more exciting: we also wanted to make sure you had that feeling of excitement more often early on in the game, and presented new learning on a more regular cadence. So we greatly sped up leveling from levels 1-15. Many of the things unlocked at later levels are earned at about the same time period you used to start using them in the old system in actual real game time, we just staggered them out across the levels since we sped up leveling to make the game feel more rewarding early on.

- In general, this system is intended to be not only better for new players, but our hope is by the time it’s all in place you’ll find via the better rewards from levels 1-80 via the level up guide, the better rewards from personal story, the faster leveling from 1-15, and the ability to toggle the content direction system to help you with map complete will make this a better for experienced players as well.

- Over a years worth of testing with new players found we were absolutely able to keep them both more engaged, and more likely to return to keep playing Gw2 as a result of the intended system. That is at the end of the day, a win for all of us since all of you need more people to play with! However: if we find in the live environment that isn’t true and we’re not retaining new users better, we’ll absolutely both share that information with you, and continue to iterate to make it better. We keep very real time metrics of player retention for new users, and we’ll know very quickly how effective the work we’ve done is. I want to make it clear: what we used to have absolutely wasn’t good enough for our standards of retaining new users. Before we do some of the other things we want to do with Gw2, we had to fix this, period.

- Finally, I want to add that a few things (hello traits!) are things that can be improved for players who make multiple alts, we’re aware of this, and though company policy prevents us from discussing what’s in development: I can say we know Gw2 can be an even better game for people who love making alts in the long run, more info: when it’s ready™.

I think you may be better off linking to the post directly:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Misconceptions-regarding-Level-gating/page/4#post4396936

Thanks for posting this. Lots of stuff that everyone on here needs to read before spouting off nonsense they know nothing about.

Jornophelanthas.1475:

I think you may be better off linking to the post directly:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Misconceptions-regarding-Level-gating/page/4#post4396936

Thanks edited my OP with this.

Much respect, Vayne. I’ve been flailing in futility trying to get some of this across in my own way in all these negative threads but I have been largely ignored. So thanks much. I’ve come to really respect almost everything you put on these forums. The more I read them the more level headed I feel you are. So, thank you. =)

Generally, this seems all right. I’m waiting for the weekend before I start a new alt to try out the new early game, but if things are, indeed, unlocked at roughly the same play time, and some of these changes are, as indicated, just improving the visibility of the carrot, I’d be okay with that. While I didn’t find learning most of the game to be particularly difficult, I’m also my entire sampling pool, which limits my perspective on it.

The bug situation does make it hard to judge this system fairly. I have faith that it’ll get fixed eventually, but I also think it’s reasonable for people to judge this feature pack based on what they’re experiencing, because only so many players are going to log on to the forums to see what’s supposed to be an account unlock and what’s supposed to happen per-character.

I’m glad for the tiny wink, nudge about traits. I’m not very happy with this “no discussion until it’s ready to roll” policy. I’d rather have the old roadmaps and still have some bumps or cancellations, because then I can at least see the thought being put into things, and a recognition of problem areas.

and i’m sure it’ll hold up to scrutiny

I must say this post has elieviated, some of my concerns. But with that said, I’ll wait to see what the “fixes” are before I post on this matter again.

It’s good this system may get fixed. Maybe. A year from now. Because I’m not sure what ANet is doing, but they’re not doing it fast.

Still, if this system is working as designed, they need better designers. If it’s not working as designed, they need better QA. Either way, the quality of the NPE is beyond low.

Paradox.1380:

Much respect, Vayne. I’ve been flailing in futility trying to get some of this across in my own way in all these negative threads but I have been largely ignored. So thanks much. I’ve come to really respect almost everything you put on these forums. The more I read them the more level headed I feel you are. So, thank you. =)

Same here, Vayne. Thanks for this post, and your other ones.

dekou.6012:

It’s good this system may get fixed. Maybe. A year from now. Because I’m not sure what ANet is doing, but they’re not doing it fast.

Still, if this system is working as designed, they need better designers. If it’s not working as designed, they need better QA. Either way, the quality of the NPE is beyond low.

They’ve generally fixed patch bugs pretty fast, from my recollection.

Elsdragon.5109:

Paradox.1380:

Much respect, Vayne. I’ve been flailing in futility trying to get some of this across in my own way in all these negative threads but I have been largely ignored. So thanks much. I’ve come to really respect almost everything you put on these forums. The more I read them the more level headed I feel you are. So, thank you. =)

Same here, Vayne. Thanks for this post, and your other ones.

Man…you guys…I don’t even know how to respond to this.

You think maybe we get get like some white knight icons to put by our names? lol

Vayne.8563:

dekou.6012:

It’s good this system may get fixed. Maybe. A year from now. Because I’m not sure what ANet is doing, but they’re not doing it fast.

Still, if this system is working as designed, they need better designers. If it’s not working as designed, they need better QA. Either way, the quality of the NPE is beyond low.

They’ve generally fixed patch bugs pretty fast, from my recollection.

Mesmer

But in all seriousness, as I said when this was first posted, I’ll wait and see.

Vayne.8563:

Elsdragon.5109:

Paradox.1380:

Much respect, Vayne. I’ve been flailing in futility trying to get some of this across in my own way in all these negative threads but I have been largely ignored. So thanks much. I’ve come to really respect almost everything you put on these forums. The more I read them the more level headed I feel you are. So, thank you. =)

Same here, Vayne. Thanks for this post, and your other ones.

Man…you guys…I don’t even know how to respond to this.

You think maybe we get get like some white knight icons to put by our names? lol

Ahahahahaha. If they ever allow us to make signature avatars or some such, you betcha I’m going to come up with something for us.

Sounds like an awful lot of backpedaling to me. Either that or the people testing the game, if there are any at all, are incredibly incompetent.

“- There are bugs! We’ve seen the content direction system (the little arrow) pointing people at super high level maps when it shouldn’t, some systems/features not unlocking as intended for all characters on your account once your first learns them, some systems level gated that aren’t intended to be, balance issues where certain levels appear to be very out of whack, etc. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, our team is working to figure out what happened here and fix these as quickly as possible.”

Sure, there are always going to be bugs. But for the whole system to be completely and utterly wrong and instantly detectable by anyone who might have decided to actually play this content, well, that’s a whole new level of unbelievability. I really hope these are just excuses to revise most of the changes, because if the whole thing is really as messed up as Colin is saying then I think it might be time to pack up and move on, for both devs and players.

ArenaNet should make the higher level game much harder (and rewarding…unique skins,etc) now that a learning curve has been forced into the leveling experience. Take advantage of that learning curve and keep escalating it, now assuming that all players have been adequately exposed to game mechanics.

Sir Colin says what he think its best for community and company, trying to keep both sides in “profit”. NCSOFT is owner of ANET, correct? Meaning they pull all strings. Developers or other employees might express their desires, but NCSOFT is the one who declares what will happen and what won’t.

As I can recall, he is our most talkative connection to ANET aside Stephanie. They both kept us informed and commented. I honestly don’t care about future plans, I want my game fixed so I am able to play.

And no, I don’t want to see that VIP bul***it, if KongZhong likes it, we don’t. And if main game leaders are smart enough, they wont pull such thing or else they risk entire player-base to collapse.

Just my opinion with hope of game getting better.

Swizzle.7982:

Sounds like an awful lot of backpedaling to me. Either that or the people testing the game, if there are any at all, are incredibly incompetent.

“- There are bugs! We’ve seen the content direction system (the little arrow) pointing people at super high level maps when it shouldn’t, some systems/features not unlocking as intended for all characters on your account once your first learns them, some systems level gated that aren’t intended to be, balance issues where certain levels appear to be very out of whack, etc. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, our team is working to figure out what happened here and fix these as quickly as possible.”

Sure, there are always going to be bugs. But for the whole system to be completely and utterly wrong and instantly detectable by anyone who might have decided to actually play this content, well, that’s a whole new level of unbelievability. I really hope these are just excuses to revise most of the changes, because if the whole thing is really as messed up as Colin is saying then I think it might be time to pack up and move on, for both devs and players.

As an example, the compass works perfectly in China, apparently works on the test server but didn’t work properly when the game went live.

Anyone who’s worked on this sort of thing will tell you this can happen with all the testing in the world. Microsoft products are filled with bugs, but I’m sure they test them. And this is a game.

The problem is that to get out the biggest percentage of bugs, you’d have to work for much longer, backing up everything else and everyone is already complaining there’s not enough content.

Developers are people, not supermen. They’re often overworked, they get tired, they sometimes miss stuff. But even with everything working fine on test servers, bugs can creep into the system. Sometimes changing something to fix a bug at the last minute will cause five bugs that wouldn’t even seem to be related to the code you’ve touched.

1) I am super happy to hear that not all these changes were intentional, and are being worked on. Thanks for letting us know.

2) I am shocked how many of these errors are not discovered in a “test server” environment before going live.

The company I work for never lets major updates like this go live without knowing in advance what is wrong. They release them on a test server first, where they duplicate ALL user experiences that they can think of, and see what happens. I’m left wondering if that happened in this case. Either 1) They didn’t know it would be this bad because they did not test the new system from levels 1-40, or 2) They knew it had all these problems but were not as forthcoming about them as they could have been. If they knew about the problems they could have told us about them even before it went live.

Vayne.8563:

As an example, the compass works perfectly in China, apparently works on the test server but didn’t work properly when the game went live.

How do you know this, do you have a source for that? And what about the completely messed up scaling issues, how were those not detected? What about the gated things that aren’t meant to be gated? How did those mysteriously change between test builds and our version?
Sounds like you’re just making kitten up to be honest.

Serbianwolf.1652:

Sir Colin says what he think its best for community and company, trying to keep both sides in “profit”. NCSOFT is owner of ANET, correct? Meaning they pull all strings. Developers or other employees might express their desires, but NCSOFT is the one who declares what will happen and what won’t.

As I can recall, he is our most talkative connection to ANET aside Stephanie. They both kept us informed and commented. I honestly don’t care about future plans, I want my game fixed so I am able to play.

And no, I don’t want to see that VIP bul***it, if KongZhong likes it, we don’t. And if main game leaders are smart enough, they wont pull such thing or else they risk entire player-base to collapse.

Just my opinion with hope of game getting better.

I would think what they say would reflect what is being relayed to them by their superiors or such. Also, you won’t have to worry about the VIP stuff: Read this

Swizzle.7982:

Vayne.8563:

As an example, the compass works perfectly in China, apparently works on the test server but didn’t work properly when the game went live.

How do you know this, do you have a source for that? And what about the completely messed up scaling issues, how were those not detected? What about the gated things that aren’t meant to be gated? How did those mysteriously change between test builds and our version?
Sounds like you’re just making kitten up to be honest.

Okay I’m making it up. Go on reddit, ask some Chinese players if the compass works fine in China. Then you can get that information. One of my guildies follows the news from the China release quite closely and he’s told me quite a few stories of stuff that went wrong there. Today when we learned about the bug in the tracking he said it was odd, because he’d never heard anything about that.

But let’s think logically for one second. Just a bit. If China launched five months ago, and that was bugged, you don’t think that they’d have had a fix for it, being one of the main new player experiences. Even if it were bugged at launch, it would have been fixed.

And if it was bugged, Anet certainly would have known about it a lot earlier. Strangely, that’s not really the kind of thing you put a patch out knowing.

Maybe it’s me, but I’ll go with the logic and what I’ve been told by a person who follow the Chinese release.

Bless him for trying to ‘put the record straight’ im sure there is at least a smidgen of genuine feeling in there – but my many years working with PR and business types who love this sort of flagrantly opaque language makes me still small a rat.

First ‘common misconceptions’ arnt misconceptions if they are actually happening – which they are! Bugs if that is what hey are ruin game play – people complaining about ruined gameplay WHATEVER the reason are still enduring ruined gameplay.

You cant have it both ways,, if it was tested for a year then why are there so many ‘bugs’? Im now concerned that either they way they go about testing is incapable of rooting out issues, or anything that creates a massive furore is suddenly a ‘bug’ when it was designed to be that way, wasn’t this all rolled out in China 6 months ago?

Elite skills gating was an ‘oversight’? ive ran communication meetings and project managed – you are completely changing the way skills are accessed and the highest skill somehow gets forgotton about and just put at some random ( wrong) level? Note this was not referred to as a ‘bug’

‘That is at the end of the day, a win for all of us since all of you need more people to play with! ’
Maybe im alone here but im not feeling any shortage of people to play with – also concerned that ’retention’ only seems to apply to new players.

To be frank I only returned after a 9 month break a few weeks ago and right now im feeling pretty narked about paying out for 2 character slots to enjoy the supposed ‘fabulous new exciting leveling’

What GW1 like these days? I may give it a try.

Vayne.8563:

apparently works on the test server but didn’t work properly when the game went live.

This. How do you know this.

Vayne.8563:

Elsdragon.5109:

Paradox.1380:

Much respect, Vayne. I’ve been flailing in futility trying to get some of this across in my own way in all these negative threads but I have been largely ignored. So thanks much. I’ve come to really respect almost everything you put on these forums. The more I read them the more level headed I feel you are. So, thank you. =)

Same here, Vayne. Thanks for this post, and your other ones.

Man…you guys…I don’t even know how to respond to this.

You think maybe we get get like some white knight icons to put by our names? lol

I want a white Knight Title. Make it Happen, ANet!

In all seriousness though, Vayne if you are on the US servers wanna pal around sometime in game? I’d really love to have a chat with you.

Swizzle.7982:

Vayne.8563:

apparently works on the test server but didn’t work properly when the game went live.

This. How do you know this.

You don’t think that the players that they let play on the test servers and did previews for us (there are several on youtube, and the feature is mentioned in at least a couple) wouldn’t have caught it? Some might not have, but as quickly as it was pointed after the initial patch? Doubtful it would have been missed.

Swizzle.7982:

Vayne.8563:

apparently works on the test server but didn’t work properly when the game went live.

This. How do you know this.

He explained how he knows it. His friend follows the Chinese client news closely.

Swizzle, I am sorry but if you want to be mad for the sake of being mad, go ahead. But dang when people give you the flat out facts and you refused to accept them its really grating. Just relax a little.

Wait it out, or don’t. No one is forcing your hand to stay here if you are not happy.

Vayne, you seriously need to stop saying all these issues are bugs it isn’t true and you are spreading misconceptions in multiple threads by doing so. Colin himself quantified the bugs that are out there but a lot of this was gating and poorly times skill locks which isn’t a bug it’s an oversight, and unanticipated consequences. I’m not attacking you on this issue I just don’t think it’s fair to just try and place all these issues under the bug umbrella it’s flat out wrong and a misrepresentation of facts.

As far as what Colin has said I’m happy to accept the results of what may change going forward now that they’ve recognized the issues and yes I have no doubt in my mind that some of it is back peddling despite their best intentions. At the end of the day if they make things right again for veteran players who don’t like this at all then that’ll be water under the bridge for most, me included, at least on this particular issue. The whole policy of not disclosing what’s on the docket for those of us who’ve been here supporting them for two years, well that’s another issue altogether.

I really wish Colin would say something about the Personal Story. I just can’t believe they would butcher their own story like that.

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Vayne, you seriously need to stop saying all these issues are bugs it isn’t true and you are spreading misconceptions in multiple threads by doing so. Colin himself quantified the bugs that are out there but a lot of this was gating and poorly times skill locks which isn’t a bug it’s a oversight, or unanticipated consequences. I’m not attacking you on this issue I just don’t think it’s fair to just try and place all these issues under the bug umbrella it’s flat out wrong.

As far as what Colin is said I’m happy to accept the results of what may change going forward and yes I have no doubt in my mind that some of it is back peddling despite the best intentions. At the end of the day if they make things right again for veteran players who don’t like this at all then that’ll be water under the bridge for most, me included, at least on this particular issue. The whole policy of not disclosing what’s on the docket for those of us who’ve been here supporting them for two years, well that’s another issue altogether.

Uh…. Vayne is not the one saying that these issues are bugs. He was simply quoting a post (copy /paste) from Colin. Only like the first sentence (ok 2) is from Vayne. Everything from “Hey Folks” onward is a Colin post. Use the link and check it.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Uh…. Vayne is not the one saying that these issues are bugs. He was simply quoting a post (copy /paste) from Colin. Only like the first sentence (ok 2) is from Vayne. Everything from “Hey Folks” onward is a Colin post. Use the link and check it.

Please all but one of his posts in this thread alone says bugs. In almost every post since Colin has said there were other issue beyond bugs he’s referring to this debacle as bugs needing to be fixed, sheesh.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Vayne, you seriously need to stop saying all these issues are bugs it isn’t true and you are spreading misconceptions in multiple threads by doing so. Colin himself quantified the bugs that are out there but a lot of this was gating and poorly times skill locks which isn’t a bug it’s a oversight, or unanticipated consequences. I’m not attacking you on this issue I just don’t think it’s fair to just try and place all these issues under the bug umbrella it’s flat out wrong.

As far as what Colin is said I’m happy to accept the results of what may change going forward and yes I have no doubt in my mind that some of it is back peddling despite the best intentions. At the end of the day if they make things right again for veteran players who don’t like this at all then that’ll be water under the bridge for most, me included, at least on this particular issue. The whole policy of not disclosing what’s on the docket for those of us who’ve been here supporting them for two years, well that’s another issue altogether.

Uh…. Vayne is not the one saying that these issues are bugs. He was simply quoting a post (copy /paste) from Colin. Only like the first sentence (ok 2) is from Vayne. Everything from “Hey Folks” onward is a Colin post. Use the link and check it.

Nor did the initial post say it was all bugs.

I saw that some were:

*Bugs – The guide pointing to higher level areas for new players
*Misinformation (hearsay or speculation from before the patch by players who haven’t played the new system or are trolling) – things like gathering and salvaging being level locked when they aren’t.
*Oversights – Elites and Utility skills being locked behind too high of a level.

He didn’t specify what percentage of things fall into this category or how many things aren’t working as intended or related to misinformation.

OK, so I get that these changes were for NEW players, and not us vets. If ANet thinks they’re justified, and they have the metrics a while from now to prove they worked, then ok. TBH it just doesn’t affect me because the trait system is awful now that I will never make another character. I was never an avid key farmer, so I really don’t care about that side of it. I honestly think that most of the vet players here are up in arms because (1) they can’t skip the NPE and they like making alts – which is an understandable gripe; and (2) they are big time key farmers seeing their farming being “nerfed” – well, sorry, too bad, we all knew it wasn’t going to last, regardless of the fact that ANet “let it slide” for so long.

As I said in another post, I think that ANet used this opportunity to “fix” a few things that weren’t really broken, per se, but were costing them gem sales. Was that the sole purpose of the changes? Of course not. People need to calm down. However, if you’re simply an altaholic, I feel for you, because there should definitely be a way to turn OFF the NPE if you have more than ONE character.

fourhim.3584:

The company I work for never lets major updates like this go live without knowing in advance what is wrong. They release them on a test server first, where they duplicate ALL user experiences that they can think of, and see what happens. I’m left wondering if that happened in this case.

In some fields, it’s easy to run those sorts of tests because it’s easy to list all the things that users might do and test. In many fields, it’s not remotely possible to do comprehensive testing in that way. In gaming, you have 100s of 1000s of players, trying out dozens of things, interacting with each other, etc. There are just too many things that can happen that can’t be predicted or even easily replicated.

Player tests only uncover a handful of such issues, because (a) there aren’t nearly as many people and (b) the circumstances tend to be narrow. Plus, we already know how big a fuss people are making about letting some people have early access to changes (giving them economic opportunities unavailable to others).

I’m not saying that ANet does a great job of testing. They certainly miss out on stuff that I think should be caught by reasonable regression tests. But it’s unrealistic to expect that there won’t be any bugs, major or minor, after a patch. The only question is: how quickly can ANet address them without making things worse.

@Savez

I like how you open your post by deliberately attacking another person for no other reason that you do not share his views. Really. That’s a sign of both maturity and mental stability.

/serious

1) I don’t take note of all releases on stuff so I won’t comment on new content before the patch, but there were new collection achievements that came out with this feature pack.

2) That might be a problem on your end. If you’re experiencing constant dc’s while the majority of others do not, then it’s likely something with your connection. And in that regard, it is out of Anet’s control.

3) I think that statement was meant to be for the general gameplay. The LS season 2 stuff being locked if you don’t log in could be a loyalty thing (don’t really know myself), but if you have as much gold to buy your ascended stuff as you claim, then unlocking those chapters shouldn’t be a problem then.

4) I’ve never seen anyone say the “beautiful characters only” in lfg without them being just a joke. The AP one I have but that is not the fault of Anet, that’s the players’, so… It’s not in anyone but the community’s control. And from my own personal experience, it’s a relatively common thing for people to act immature and stuff in online games.

5) Again, those are a problem with the community. If lots of people want to show their commander tags for no reason, then Anet can’t do anything about it. An option to turn off commander tags would be good, but you can’t fault Anet for not implementing something like that since the sudden boom of the tags was just recently (as far as I know).

6) Uhm… Don’t think it’s the same team? Not too sure.

@Elsdragon

Attacked with a person that gave his contribute to my leaving with his free Attacks full of maturity and stability. (but he prolly cant remember…he posts here and there)

1)Collections and achies its all what this game is about?

2)Do a poll or go in Malchor’s Leap/Cursed shores and ask if any is having lagspikes/dc’s and let me know

3)its not about gold but the principle, i can still login gw1 and nothing is lost or hidden behind gold→ gems transactions. VIP principles incoming?

4)Lucky u

5)Absolutely not recent, the abuse of commander tag was here already 1 year ago…but now its simply ridiculous (and the problem solving for it its ridiculous too: a simply option to disable unwanted tags)

6)really hope so

Vlad Morbius.1759:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Uh…. Vayne is not the one saying that these issues are bugs. He was simply quoting a post (copy /paste) from Colin. Only like the first sentence (ok 2) is from Vayne. Everything from “Hey Folks” onward is a Colin post. Use the link and check it.

Please all but one of his posts in this thread alone says bugs. In almost every post since Colin has said there were other issue beyond bugs he’s referring to this debacle as bugs needing to be fixed, sheesh.

He’s never said it’s all bugs, only that there are bugs. Which Colin, and Stephani have also both stated. Stop jumping on him for simply passing along Colin’s post.

Stephane Lo Presti.7258:

Hi there,

As a follow-up to Colin’s post, we want you to know that we’re working kitten fixing bugs in the New Player Experience system. We’re also using this opportunity to make a few changes to its design to take into account the feedback we’ve been reading. We’re aiming to deploy the fixes early next week.

As Colin explained (make sure to read this post and that one if you haven’t!), this is a complex, “big picture” system that has a lot of components. We want it to benefit all players and improve your game experience overall.

We understand that this is an important topic for the community and appreciate that players have been talking about it. We’ve been triaging bug reports, developing fixes for them and discussing what design changes we will bring to you next week. We’ll continue to both work on the next updates and read the feedback from the community on this topic!

Thank you

Not too sure what you mean, so…

1) Well, this recent patch was a Feature Pack, not a content pack.

2) I play WvW and dungeons mostly, and rarely do I get people dc-ing randomly. I cannot access the game at the moment, so I am simply giving you an alternative explanation as I’ve never had random dc problems save the times the servers were being DDOS’d (which is kinda out of their control as well)

3) Well, comparing the two games: GW1 had different campaigns and even an expansion that helped Anet get more assured profit for new content if people wanted to play it. In GW2, they didn’t want expansions, but since people wanted the LS stuff to be permanent content, I guess they decided to make it have a small fee attached to unlocking it if you weren’t there during release. It’s about principles, partially. They also need to get profits somehow. I can’t give you a definite answer for why there’s a fee since I don’t work for them, and while I see your point on feeling left out (if that’s the right way to term it) I wouldn’t go condemning them for doing so.

4) Thanks? But really, I run a lot of PuG’s, and rarely do I see people judging my abilities based on my looks. AP is sort of iffy as well, but in those cases I wouldn’t join their parties anyway. And again, that’s the players’ who do that’s fault. Don’t redirect it at Anet.

5) Oh, I thought you meant the sudden boom of a ton of tags on. The solution is easy to give, but coding stuff is usually (if not always) much more complex than it seems. As I am not well-versed in programming, I cannot comment on it. I would suggest it, but I won’t blame them for not giving it.

Vayne.8563:

Swizzle.7982:

Sounds like an awful lot of backpedaling to me. Either that or the people testing the game, if there are any at all, are incredibly incompetent.

“- There are bugs! We’ve seen the content direction system (the little arrow) pointing people at super high level maps when it shouldn’t, some systems/features not unlocking as intended for all characters on your account once your first learns them, some systems level gated that aren’t intended to be, balance issues where certain levels appear to be very out of whack, etc. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, our team is working to figure out what happened here and fix these as quickly as possible.”

Sure, there are always going to be bugs. But for the whole system to be completely and utterly wrong and instantly detectable by anyone who might have decided to actually play this content, well, that’s a whole new level of unbelievability. I really hope these are just excuses to revise most of the changes, because if the whole thing is really as messed up as Colin is saying then I think it might be time to pack up and move on, for both devs and players.

As an example, the compass works perfectly in China, apparently works on the test server but didn’t work properly when the game went live.

Anyone who’s worked on this sort of thing will tell you this can happen with all the testing in the world. Microsoft products are filled with bugs, but I’m sure they test them. And this is a game.

The problem is that to get out the biggest percentage of bugs, you’d have to work for much longer, backing up everything else and everyone is already complaining there’s not enough content.

Developers are people, not supermen. They’re often overworked, they get tired, they sometimes miss stuff. But even with everything working fine on test servers, bugs can creep into the system. Sometimes changing something to fix a bug at the last minute will cause five bugs that wouldn’t even seem to be related to the code you’ve touched.

when you say as example, are you saying you have actual knowledge of the test server and china? or are you saying hypothetically if it worked perfectly.
If you actually have knowledge of either the test server or china, i would like to know where you got that info.

phys.7689:

when you say as example, are you saying you have actual knowledge of the test server and china? or are you saying hypothetically if it worked perfectly.
If you actually have knowledge of either the test server or china, i would like to know where you got that info.

That question’s been answered. He has a friend who follows the Chinese version updates and stuff: this one.

Elsdragon.5109:

That question’s been answered. He has a friend who follows the Chinese version updates and stuff: this one.

No, it wasn’t answered and keeps being ignored. How does he know anything about what happens on the test server? Not the chinese servers, the test servers.

It is interesting how people refer to ANET employees as if they are the best of buddies. Have you ever done the Destiny’s Edge quest with the kids in Shaemoor?

What’s Colin’s last name? (OK, this one is ez)

Is he married? Also orientation please.

Hometown?

Favorite color?

Brothers and/or sisters?

Pets?

Favorite food?

Graduated from…?

Vayne.8563:

Okay I’m making it up. Go on reddit, ask some Chinese players if the compass works fine in China. Then you can get that information.

Went searching for the hell of it… This is kinda funny.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/20f1gk/ongoing_riots_in_chinese_gw2_community/

This is the part of a post by Vayne that refers to test servers (emphasis added by me):

As an example, the compass works perfectly in China, apparently works on the test server but didn’t work properly when the game went live.

Note the word “apparently” there? That means it is an assumption by Vayne, and not actual (or factual) knowledge. Vayne apparently made the assumption that the compass worked fine on the ArenaNet test server, because otherwise the compass would not have made it into the game.
ArenaNet developers do not discuss future content, because that way it can be cancelled if it’s not working without having to explain it to the player base. This has been often mentioned in developer posts, and apparently, Vayne remembered this.

(Note that I made a few assumptions here too, because I can’t look into Vayne’s head. I used the word “apparently” to indicate that. Because for all I know, he/she could be a time travelling dolphin from the year 4149, who travelled back to 2014 after reading the Complete and Unabridged History of Guild Wars 2. I can’t prove that he/she isn’t.)

TL;DR:
Comprehensive reading skill is your friend. Vayne claims no knowledge of ArenaNet’s test server(s).

I didn’t think the compass even existed in the Chinese release. I thought it was an entirely new feature for the 9/9 pack.

Xenesis.6389:

Vayne.8563:

Okay I’m making it up. Go on reddit, ask some Chinese players if the compass works fine in China. Then you can get that information.

Went searching for the hell of it… This is kinda funny.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/20f1gk/ongoing_riots_in_chinese_gw2_community/

I’m not sure what this 6-month old reddit post has to do with the current discussion? That things were tried out in beta and then re-iterated? That the NA/EU playerbase copied the Chinese for the SAB thing? Um…sorry, kind of clueless here.

Jornophelanthas.1475:

That means it is an assumption by Vayne, and not actual (or factual) knowledge.

Exactly, as I said at the start, he’s just making kitten up.

Vayne.8563:

Elsdragon.5109:

Paradox.1380:

Much respect, Vayne. I’ve been flailing in futility trying to get some of this across in my own way in all these negative threads but I have been largely ignored. So thanks much. I’ve come to really respect almost everything you put on these forums. The more I read them the more level headed I feel you are. So, thank you. =)

Same here, Vayne. Thanks for this post, and your other ones.

Man…you guys…I don’t even know how to respond to this.

You think maybe we get get like some white knight icons to put by our names? lol

Only if they look cool.

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Vayne, you seriously need to stop saying all these issues are bugs it isn’t true and you are spreading misconceptions in multiple threads by doing so. Colin himself quantified the bugs that are out there but a lot of this was gating and poorly times skill locks which isn’t a bug it’s an oversight, and unanticipated consequences. I’m not attacking you on this issue I just don’t think it’s fair to just try and place all these issues under the bug umbrella it’s flat out wrong and a misrepresentation of facts.

As far as what Colin has said I’m happy to accept the results of what may change going forward now that they’ve recognized the issues and yes I have no doubt in my mind that some of it is back peddling despite their best intentions. At the end of the day if they make things right again for veteran players who don’t like this at all then that’ll be water under the bridge for most, me included, at least on this particular issue. The whole policy of not disclosing what’s on the docket for those of us who’ve been here supporting them for two years, well that’s another issue altogether.

Everything on which anet has second thoughts IS a bug. You should know it by now >_>’

Swizzle.7982:

Jornophelanthas.1475:

That means it is an assumption by Vayne, and not actual (or factual) knowledge.

Exactly, as I said at the start, he’s just making kitten up.

Assuming things is not (always) nonsense. If you disagree with someone’s assumptions, you can challenge them by giving arguments why they are based on unsound reasoning.

For example, I am assuming that Vayne is not a time travelling dolphin from the year 4149. I have no way of knowing this for a fact about Vayne (or anyone on this forum), but am I making stuff up just by assuming that you are all non-time travelling humans using computers (or phones)?

The same goes for Vayne’s assumption. I tend to accept the assumption that the compass was working well enough in ArenaNet’s testing environment for it to be deemed worthy of inclusion in the update. Because I believe ArenaNet’s posts where they explain their “When It’s Ready” policy of talking about future content.

You can challenge Vayne’s assumption by refusing any of the premises I gave or alluded to, or even any that I forgot to mention. For example:
- You can claim that ArenaNet’s testing procedures are insufficient.
- You can refuse to believe ArenaNet’s explanation for why the “When It’s Ready” policy exists.
- You can claim that ArenaNet does things entirely differently than how Vayne is assuming it to be.

However, you need to back up your own claims as well, because they are also based on assumptions. (E.g. how much time and effort is reasonable for ArenaNet to put into testing, why ArenaNet’s explanations of their “When It’s Ready” policy would be unreliable, or what would be a more plausible way for how ArenaNet is really doing things.) And your assumptions can also be attacked if they are not strong enough.

This is how intelligent debate works. Simply saying: “Nuh-uh!” does not win an argument.