Guild Wars 2

So let’s start by defining Endgame.
Endgame is anything that you require to be max level for. So you need to be max level to do endgame things. (let me know if you think I’m wrong?)

I made a list of things which may be is Endgame things. Lets look and see what endgame things we can find in it:

1. PVP
is NOT Endgame, becouse it do not request you to be lvl 80.

2. Farming (farming mobs for drops for crafting or gear. farming DE for karma)
is Endgame if you like it. But then Anet comes and says “No, this is not Endgame in this game” becouse the anti-bot system will get you and you will get less drops and karma.

3. Dungeons (it is a lvl 80 dengeon)
is Endgame.

4. Exploring (becouse you will likely be lvl 80 before you complite exploring)
is Endgame.

5. Personal Story (dont know how many lvl 80 quests it is in it, i have not complite it)
depends on you, if you complite it before you ding 80 or after.

6. Get the best gear (this is to easy, same day as you ding 80 you can like get 1 or 2 pieces of the best gear in game)
is Endagme.

Summary:
When you ding 80 you can do many things, like Exploring, get gear, complited Personal Story and do Dungeons. But after som days you have complited Exploring, you have the gear you want, you have complited Personal Story. Then it is just farm the same Dungeon over and over agen, not so much to do.

So i would say that it is not much Endgame in this game, You dont get any new things to do at 80. It is just the same things you can do at lvl 30 (you get first Dungeon on 30) just little harder.

In my book PvP is Endgame, you don’t need to be 80 to do it, but it’s what you supposed to do when you are 80, so it’s Endgame.

But you are right, the Endgame in GW2 doesn’t offer anyhting new. And that’s great, cause you are not forced to reach 80 if you want to have access to certain content.

nachtnebel.9168:

But you are right, the Endgame in GW2 doesn’t offer anyhting new. And that’s great, cause you are not forced to reach 80 if you want to have access to certain content.

That’s not a feature, it’s an excuse.
Lets say we have 2 games.
- Game A has 10 features/things to do.
- Game B has 15 features/things to do.

While you are leveling you unlock skills, get to new zones, meet new monsters much faster. So Game B gives you 10 things to do while leveling, and leaves 5 more only for max level, since then you are getting new content much slower.
Game A says: we have a new revolutionary idea. You can do 100% of the content at every level, and you get the 10 features since level 1.

Grats for the revolutionary idea.

And btw I am gw2 fan, I just admit it lacks endgame content.

If it comes to GW2, what are those “missing features”?

PvE Raids? Come on, even during WoW Classic Raids were only played by 2-5 players, those who led the Raid, the main tank and a few chars for special tasks. All other players were basically just heal or damage bots with rather simple tasks, most of them less challenging than those you encountered in solo pve or during the lvl 60 instances. The biggest challenge about Classic Naxx was to figure out how the encounters worked and to get your raid to not step into the instant kill zones.

nachtnebel, Why not add Raids in this game? This game does not have tanks, dps and healers like WoW. This will take raids to a new thing. Big bosses in DE works why not make a raid were ppl can try there skills.

Raids would be horribly chaotic in GW2 (no trinity/aggro management) and do I have to remind you how silly the particle effects are when you have 20 people attacking a mob.

Cause there is no need for raids. Raids would add nothing to the game that couldn’t also be added by Dungeons.

Well I do miss raids. This game’s dungeons are severely lacking. They have really bad mechanics if they have any at all (some boss fights literally have no mechanics, no abilities, no anything, just tank and spank.) Even fights that do have mechanics are extremely generic… Theres no uniqueness about it. The last boss in honor of the waves uses ranger abilities nothing else, literally just recycled ranger abilities. The 3rd boss literally has no abilities at all, its just tank and spank. Theres a lot of boss fights like this in guild wars 2 and its depressing.

I think GW2 does a pretty good job with endgame, it takes a while to get full exotic equip and once you’re done you can go for the legendary or start a new character.
The only real problem I see, is that there isn’t any rare SKIN that is only droppable and has some value in TP, in GW1 most of the dungeons had a small chance to drop a unique rare skin, while in GW2 you are forced to farm the skin you want, you can not buy it, and aoutomatically you can’t make money searching for rare skins.

P.S.
All what I said is valid if you don’t consider PvP as endgame.

Raids are basically a gear treadmill and the only thing that keeps raiders going is the dream of getting that one item from that one boss. You can tell me that you are one of those few select people that do it for the challenge and not for the loot, but I will tell you that most people are done with the raids after farming them a few times, after which the need for more raid content appears.

GW2 just isn’t a game that will have raids in that form. If you crave to do some raids during your regular week, there are other games out there which you could play alongside GW2 (assuming you still love the game but wish to raid as well) as there is ultimately, no sub requirement for this game. I highly doubt this game will be able to cater to every single playstyle, so your best bet is to combine it with another game and play it whenever you need a change of scenery of said other game.

(Personally I play League of Legends and GW2, as many probably do.)

YOEGT

Yet Another Endgame Thread.

This is really simple. If you have finished everything you want to do with your character…all the content and achievements and loot…then you have three choices. It’s the same three choices you have in every single MMORPG. Keep playing because it’s fun, make a new character and do it all again, or stop playing for a while until they add new content.

You’re trying to impose old definitions of end-game on a game that’s trying to step away from that. With your mindset set like this, no amount of “end-game” will ever satisfy you.

So it seems to me that people are basically wanting this game to have option to form bigger groups than just 5, to do… something. YES, i definitely agree.
This is supposed to be MMO and social game. Bigger group size would help not only pve but also www as it is mostly people running alone there too.

And I also agree there should be some kind of vague “end game goal” in the horizon. At this point only www is offering something interesting for time indefinite.

SO I assume you want organized raids. Sorry folks but this isnt that type of game and in no way shape or form is Raiding the only endgame but thats what you are getting at.

Cathaona.8057:

So it seems to me that people are basically wanting this game to have option to form bigger groups than just 5, to do… something. YES, i definitely agree.
This is supposed to be MMO and social game. Bigger group size would help not only pve but also www as it is mostly people running alone there too.

And I also agree there should be some kind of vague “end game goal” in the horizon. At this point only www is offering something interesting for time indefinite.

No, that is incorrect. You can already make groups bigger than 5 mans, but they do not have any instances PVE content to plow through. A small part of the vocal community wants that option to be available to them.

Sefan.5791:

So let’s start by defining Endgame.
Endgame is anything that you require to be max level for. So you need to be max level to do endgame things. (let me know if you think I’m wrong?)

You’re wrong.

Why should you be forced to change the game you play at some magic point during your involvemant with the game?

In your traditional MMO, there’s actually two games in one box:
- One where you can go around and see stuff. It includes vast maps and endless content. It’s designed to guide you through a virtual world that you can explore and see. You’re free to do so alone or in groups.
- One where you have repeatable content that you do in fixed intervals and that never changes. You can memorize it and almost do it blindfolded after a while. Apart from that, there’s group activities. For those, you don’t move, ever (except between bank and auction house). You are teleported to the spot where they’re at.

GW2 intends to break with this. There’s no two games, there’s just one game. You do the same starting with level 2 and all the way to (and including) 80.

I’m 80 and in full exotic. I could farm Orr but why should I? I could farm dungeons but why should I? Guess what? I’m running around, fiddling with world completion, WvW, and all the stuff I enjoyed while levelling like jumpin puzzles. I run dungeons with friends when I feel like it and I go to Orr when I feel like it. Or – simply put – I’m having fun.

Fozzik.1742:

YOEGT

Yet Another Endgame Thread.

There’s no smoke without fire

phooka.4295:

I’m 80 and in full exotic. I could farm Orr but why should I? I could farm dungeons but why should I? Guess what? I’m running around, fiddling with world completion, WvW, and all the stuff I enjoyed while levelling like jumpin puzzles. I run dungeons with friends when I feel like it and I go to Orr when I feel like it. Or – simply put – I’m having fun.

Playing an mmo without character progression is like playing a dumbed down adventure/shooter game.

kal.4350:

Fozzik.1742:

YOEGT

Yet Another Endgame Thread.

There’s no smoke without fire

You’re right. The fire is a vocal minority of people with incorrect expectations, and the inability or unwillingness to adapt and try new things. They create a lot of smoke in just about every MMORPG community.

GW2 has plenty of things to do at max level. People who try to play GW2 as if it were another game, or expect it to be something it’s not (despite developers explaining how GW2 works clearly and repeatedly), do not point to a problem with the game, but rather with their own mentality. Expecting a game company to alter their entire design philosophy to cater to a vocal minority is more of the same skewed thinking.

Not everyone is going to like the game GW2 actually is… but claiming it’s incomplete or broken just because you don’t like it is silly.

If 100 people each make their own thread complaining about the same thing…that makes a lot of threads. But 100 people or even 1000 people is an extremely small number compared to the player base. The only thing it shows is that the forums aren’t being tightly moderated, and a few people don’t know how to use search tools.

GW2: Dungeons/wvw/explore/DE
Other games: Raid
Yes there isnt much endgame but its more than in any other mmorpg…

Leeto.1570:

GW2: Dungeons/wvw/explore/DE
Other games: Raid
Yes there isnt much endgame but its more than in any other mmorpg…

This post is wrong in so many aspects…

I deleted my answer to the “you are just a minority” because talking about that is just demagogy.

I played wow for years, and there was less endgame than in GW2, just because blizzard created illusion that theres endgame doesnt mean it was actually there.

kal.4350:

You are wrong in 2 aspects.
1. It’s not a minority. I’m not saying it’s more than 50% or whatever. We can never know. but it sure isn’t a minority.

LOL. So much win in number one.

So you can never know, but it’s definitely NOT a minority, but is less than 50%. Okay, gotcha.

2. We are not dislikeing the game, we just want it to be better/last longer

There are like 300-400 hours of play, without repeating anything, if you just explore every map and do the available dynamic events and content with a single character. If you stick around to experience more than one of the personal stories, you can double that play time.

Are you saying that 400+ hours of play time isn’t enough for the launch of a new game, when you get all of it for $60 and no monthly fee? Why does a game need to become a job that you grind at several hours a day for months after you’ve stopped enjoying the game play? Why do people EXPECT exactly that from MMORPGs? I understand it’s all they’ve been fed by the genre in the last 7-8 years…but really, step back and consider for a minute.

No game launches with more content than that. It’s just a question of whether you enjoy it, and find it fun to repeat things, or if you don’t. Some folks came in with expectations based on previous games, and found GW2 to be different. Maybe they didn’t like it. That doesn’t make it bad, or incomplete, or broken. Different strokes for different folks. The fact that a small, highly vocal minority come to forums and create thread after thread and build the panic and misinformation to a fever pitch doesn’t say anything other than that this is an MMORPG, and it has official forums.

If one defines “endgame” as “that which you can do at level 80”, then: you can do everything you did before, except gain levels.

1) Fight creatures anywhere in the world
2) WvW
3) sPvP
4) Participate in DEs
5) Dungeons
6) Revive/help other players
7) Use mystic forge
8) Accumulate karma
9) Accumulate gold
10) Craft
11) Make your character several different styles of gear
12) Participate in guild events
13) Role-play
14) Explore (there’s plenty of non-itemized content to find)
15) Enjoy the view

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

If one defines “endgame” as “that which you can do at level 80”, then: you can do everything you did before, except gain levels.

1) Fight creatures anywhere in the world
2) WvW
3) sPvP
4) Participate in DEs
5) Dungeons
6) Revive/help other players
7) Use mystic forge
8) Accumulate karma
9) Accumulate gold
10) Craft
11) Make your character several different styles of gear
12) Participate in guild events
13) Role-play
14) Explore (there’s plenty of non-itemized content to find)
15) Enjoy the view

16) Accumulate skill points for high-end recipes
17) Make an alt and do a different personal story
18) Legendary weapons
19) Get a group and go champion hunting all over the world
20) Get a group and play through the zone-wide event chains all over the world
21) Find ceiling cat
22) Check to see if Queen Jenna’s “wardrobe malfunction” has been fixed
23) Make an alt because other professions are fun, and you didn’t see everything the first time through each zone.

You can do more non-trivial things at max level in this game than almost any previous MMORPG. Level scaling and the wide-open nature of the world and content makes entirely new play styles possible that didn’t exist before.

But then again, I think we all understand that when the complainers say the word “endgame”, they really only mean one thing. An endless stat progression treadmill to grind…and large-scale group instances in which to grind it.

Good ones, Fozzik!

Another thing you can do at level 80 is try out/master different trait/skill/weapon systems available to that character. You can also max out all crafting skills with any single character.

The sooner we get away from this concept of ‘Endgame’ the better. It’s handicapping the way we think of the genre.

I can’t wait for a game that takes levels away completely (GWs was very close to doing this). Then people really will be confused on how to define endgame.

Sefan.5791:

So i would say that it is not much Endgame in this game, You dont get any new things to do at 80. It is just the same things you can do at lvl 30 (you get first Dungeon on 30) just little harder.

Fairly sure they said from the beginning the whole game was end game… Now you might actually understand what they were saying.

kal.4350:

phooka.4295:

I’m 80 and in full exotic. I could farm Orr but why should I? I could farm dungeons but why should I? Guess what? I’m running around, fiddling with world completion, WvW, and all the stuff I enjoyed while levelling like jumpin puzzles. I run dungeons with friends when I feel like it and I go to Orr when I feel like it. Or – simply put – I’m having fun.

Playing an mmo without character progression is like playing a dumbed down adventure/shooter game.

OK, if for You , “MMO” is an abbreviation for “character progression through either levelling or ever-improving equipment” (although I’d say a good abbreviation for that would be “CPTELoEIE”), then GW2 is a bad MMO. I concur.

If you think that levelling a character and roaming the world to reach end-level is a chore, a necessary evil to be dealt with in order to reach “end game”, GW2 is not your MMO. I concur.

And what’s worse, I fear that these shortcommings were advertised (as strengths) very early on. It’s unlikely that GW2 will ever mature or improve until it meets your standart for what a (good) MMO is. And for that, I’m glad. Because I like it just the way it is.

stemare.2578:

I think GW2 does a pretty good job with endgame, it takes a while to get full exotic equip and once you’re done you can go for the legendary or start a new character.
The only real problem I see, is that there isn’t any rare SKIN that is only droppable and has some value in TP, in GW1 most of the dungeons had a small chance to drop a unique rare skin, while in GW2 you are forced to farm the skin you want, you can not buy it, and aoutomatically you can’t make money searching for rare skins.

P.S.
All what I said is valid if you don’t consider PvP as endgame.

you just say it takes a while to get full exotic? lol

I am not gonna try to craft legendary.I am hardcore player, guild wars 2 finished for me about 2 weekes ago. I have done everything you write.

Nope no end game yet. Fingers crossed they give us some in the near future though

rook.4625:

^

What?! WvWvW isn’t enough for you?! What about sPvP or tPvP? Wait, are you talking about PvE? Oh, well then…

Yeah i’m a PVE player so that pvp stuff doesn’t interest me one bit. Shame really, since there is barely any pve content left…

If you dont like pvp there is not much endgame in this game, I think a bad choice because you want as many people around as you can and having a game that in my mind is completable right now is not good buisness for an mmo

The game is full of game content. I might be a bit disappointed that there is so few racial specific zones. Around level 25-30 all of us get herded into the same zones…but hey I still have fun with my 5 different characters.

The idiocy of racing to the max level never stops amusing me. This is a theme park game with finite game content. It ends at one point. After a while you get bored of repeating the fun bits. Enjoy the journey, especially you don’t pay a monthly sub.

GW2 is still be best spend 50 dollars / Euros / Pounds in the last few months. Well TBH it was 25 for me.