Guild Wars 2

Leo Paul.1659:

it’s condescending to presume that we didn’t pay attention to the story. i understand that you are easily impressed and i respect that.

It’s not condescend at all. It’s far more condescending to say that something is objectively anticlimatic. What I’m suggesting makes perfect sense.

People are complaining about this specific battle without reference to anything else. MANY people didn’t have a group to finish their personal story right away. In fact, many people did the personal story piecemeal. Many skip scenes.

Making an assumption that you’re not thinking about something you haven’t mentioned at all is not condescending, it’s logical.

See it’s you who do not understand. Regardless of what they named the laser or the canons we used at the end, that encounter is still very much anticlimactic. It’s not logical to assume that people who do not share your opinion must have done something wrong along the way (not paid attention to the story).

Leo Paul.1659:

See it’s you who do not understand. Regardless of what they named the laser or the canons we used at the end, that encounter is still very much anticlimactic. It’s not logical to assume that people who do not share your opinion must have done something wrong along the way (not paid attention to the story).

I understand what you’re saying. I disagree with what you’re saying. By continuing to assume that I don’t understand (when in fact I do) you’re being condescending, which is what you accused me to be.

Yes, I can understand and still disagree with you. Some people see the forest, some see the trees.

Vayne.8563:

Leo Paul.1659:

See it’s you who do not understand. Regardless of what they named the laser or the canons we used at the end, that encounter is still very much anticlimactic. It’s not logical to assume that people who do not share your opinion must have done something wrong along the way (not paid attention to the story).

I understand what you’re saying. I disagree with what you’re saying. By continuing to assume that I don’t understand (when in fact I do) you’re being condescending, which is what you accused me to be.

Yes, I can understand and still disagree with you. Some people see the forest, some see the trees.

If I am doing this, and you are doing that, then we must be doing the same thing. See, I understand what you’re saying even when you think I don’t.

Leo Paul.1659:

Vayne.8563:

Leo Paul.1659:

See it’s you who do not understand. Regardless of what they named the laser or the canons we used at the end, that encounter is still very much anticlimactic. It’s not logical to assume that people who do not share your opinion must have done something wrong along the way (not paid attention to the story).

I understand what you’re saying. I disagree with what you’re saying. By continuing to assume that I don’t understand (when in fact I do) you’re being condescending, which is what you accused me to be.

Yes, I can understand and still disagree with you. Some people see the forest, some see the trees.

If I am doing this, and you are doing that, then we must be doing the same thing. See, I understand what you’re saying even when you think I don’t.

Yes, I agree you can disagree with me. I said earlier there will be people who feel it is anticlimactic and I suspect the reason is is because they’re not seeing the whole thread. This isn’t belittling them or making any judgement on them, other than an observation of what might be behind it.

I didn’t claim you didn’t understand what I was saying, I’m simply saying that from my point of view it wasn’t anticlimactic. I’ve made ZERO attempt to try to change anyone’s mind about whether it’s anticlimactic or not. I’ve simply pointed out that whether it is or not is simply opinion and my opinion is different.

YOU are the one trying to change minds, not me. I’ve already said otherwise.

I wasn’t the one who claimed that referring to shooting down zhaitan with cannons as fallacious.

Leo Paul.1659:

I wasn’t the one who claimed that referring to shooting down zhaitan with cannons as fallacious.

Quote please. Because I didn’t claim it either.

What is a red herring?

Leo Paul.1659:

What is a red herring?

A distraction. That’s how I intended it. Misleading, which doesn’t imply necessarily fallacious. It could be completely true and still be a red herring. You may not like my choice of words and they may not have been the right words even, but that doesn’t negate anything I said after it, nor is it in itself the wrong thing to say.

I was using the term red herring in the sense of an analogy. A red herring is something that throws people off a specific thought process, and that’s precisely what this does. Maybe you should be less literal. I should probably have used different wording however.

I quite like it at times when the “boss” is dealt with quickly … I am with Vayne on the whole “bigger story” aspect. But then I enjoyed Fable II where you don’t even fight the boss, and the third DLC to Borderlands 2 where again, you don’t fight the boss. Yes, I realise these are not MMOs, the point is the same.

It was about the journey and getting to the boss, weakening his lines of support along the way.

I think part of the reason is definitely, as Vayne said, the “expectation” management of the final Boss encounter, born from dungeons and whatnot. But also the fact that you CAN do the personal story piecemeal, which breaks the immersion. Also the fact that you may have to wait to do the final dungeon anyway because you had trouble getting a group together. All these break immersion, and by the time you get to the end, you have leaped back in, right before the final battle, and thus your expectations level up. If you had just had this right on the end of the whole of the quest line, I don’t think people would find it so anti-climactic.

Vayne.8563:

Leo Paul.1659:

What is a red herring?

A distraction. That’s how I intended it. Misleading, which doesn’t imply necessarily fallacious. It could be completely true and still be a red herring. You may not like my choice of words and they may not have been the right words even, but that doesn’t negate anything I said after it, nor is it in itself the wrong thing to say.

I was using the term red herring in the sense of an analogy. A red herring is something that throws people off a specific thought process, and that’s precisely what this does. Maybe you should be less literal. I should probably have used different wording however.

You were the one who strawman’d your way out of the idea that the zhaitan fight was bad.

Here’s the post that I assume you responded to with that red herring comment:

I was really surprised that I was able to kill Zhaitan with one hand while eating popcorn with the other. I completely agree that some aspects of this game need to be upgraded, and some aspects need to be downgraded.

Even if we paid attention to every detail in the story leading up to the fight, it wouldn’t change a thing. The Zhaitan fight was terribly boring.

Leo Paul.1659:

Vayne.8563:

Leo Paul.1659:

What is a red herring?

A distraction. That’s how I intended it. Misleading, which doesn’t imply necessarily fallacious. It could be completely true and still be a red herring. You may not like my choice of words and they may not have been the right words even, but that doesn’t negate anything I said after it, nor is it in itself the wrong thing to say.

I was using the term red herring in the sense of an analogy. A red herring is something that throws people off a specific thought process, and that’s precisely what this does. Maybe you should be less literal. I should probably have used different wording however.

You were the one who strawman’d your way out of the idea that the zhaitan fight was bad.

Here’s the post that I assume you responded to with that red herring comment:

I was really surprised that I was able to kill Zhaitan with one hand while eating popcorn with the other. I completely agree that some aspects of this game need to be upgraded, and some aspects need to be downgraded.

You keep using words like strawman and fallacious. All I did was express an opinion about how I see that fight. You can be disappointed with it if you want.

I have no problem with that.

LFk.1408:

Consider the following scenario:
A certain dynamic event results in the building of a bridge or portal, that saves players a considerable amount of travel time between two important places. It is periodically assaulted by saboteurs, and must be defended – or broken and rebuilt.

With things as they are – waypoints – no one would bat an eye at this. There’s probably a waypoint where you want to go anyway.
Without such a feature, wouldn’t this be an important event that the community should undertake?

“Community” meaning who? Most of CoF farmers do not try to participate in dynamic events that keep CoF open. Most of people that are interested in stuff from temple karma vendors never participate in temple events. Observation shows, that all such a “bridge” scenario would accomplish would be 90% of the population that uses that bridge raging everytime it’s broken. And either going elsewhere or just logging off.

Yes, you might end up with a geme with a “heart” and “immersion”. Assuming that heart and immersion could be kept in a game that would be mostly empty.

And, on topic of immersion, Zhaitan was definitely one of the lamest bosses in the game.

I have no problem if you think it was great. But I hope you realize that it sounds condescending, as if we didn’t pay attention to the story or that we are purposely detracting people by referring to the zhaitan fight.

Leo Paul.1659:

I have no problem if you think it was great. But I hope you realize that it sounds condescending, as if we didn’t pay attention to the story or that we are purposely detracting people by referring to the zhaitan fight.

In YOUR opinion, it sounds condescending. I don’t know why you’re so sensitive, but I don’t feel that’s my problem. If you were aware of the story and still felt that way, then obviously you weren’t one of the people I was talking about.

Me thinks thou dost protest too much.

Vayne.8563:

Leo Paul.1659:

I have no problem if you think it was great. But I hope you realize that it sounds condescending, as if we didn’t pay attention to the story or that we are purposely detracting people by referring to the zhaitan fight.

In YOUR opinion, it sounds condescending. I don’t know why you’re so sensitive, but I don’t feel that’s my problem. If you were aware of the story and still felt that way, then obviously you weren’t one of the people I was talking about.

Me thinks thou dost protest too much.

Why, can’t handle it when people express their opinion about you? You really like saying “your opinion” too much. As if it diminishes anything. Just because I don’t put “in my opinion” in my statements doesn’t mean I’m claiming them to be facts. You’re penchant for the word opinion is funny.

In MY OPINION, this argument has gone on long enough and is no longer OT. Lol :p

CrossedHorse.4261:

In MY OPINION, this argument has gone on long enough and is no longer OT. Lol :p

Hahah yea. Aggressive meets defensive. Sorry OP.

Leo Paul.1659:

Vayne.8563:

Leo Paul.1659:

I have no problem if you think it was great. But I hope you realize that it sounds condescending, as if we didn’t pay attention to the story or that we are purposely detracting people by referring to the zhaitan fight.

In YOUR opinion, it sounds condescending. I don’t know why you’re so sensitive, but I don’t feel that’s my problem. If you were aware of the story and still felt that way, then obviously you weren’t one of the people I was talking about.

Me thinks thou dost protest too much.

Why, can’t handle it when people express their opinion about you? You really like saying “your opinion” too much. As if it diminishes anything. Just because I don’t put “in my opinion” in my statements doesn’t mean I’m claiming them to be facts. You’re penchant for the word opinion is funny.

Because your opinion about ME is not relevant on a Guild Wars 2 forum. I’ve specifically avoided stating my opinion about you. If you want to talk about Guild Wars 2, by all means, talk about Guild Wars 2. If you want to talk about me personally, contact my personal assistant and we can set up lunch.

None of your last posts has got anything to do with GW2 either and everything to do with what you think about me. At the end of the day it’s my opinion just as you’ve said, only an opinion, so why are you being so defensive about it? Maybe because it’s true that you’re being condescending the way you try to assert your point and invalidate someone else’s? Whatever.

See, the whole shooting a dragon with a canon thing is a red herring. This comes from people thinking of bosses as bosses, and gaming in a certain way. I have a whole different view of Arah story mode than most people, because I don’t separate boss battles out in my head.

-snip-
My perspective as a writer leads me to not isolate individual events and see the story as a whole. It’s much better that way.

In YOUR opinion.