What If There Was No "DPS"
Let me try to put it a different way. If players don’t have tools available to tank and out-heal the incoming damage, they have to deal with it another way. This means players have to: a) kill everything fast before they get killed, and b) have a way to avoid taking damage entirely. And developers have no choice but to design fights that way too if they take the tank + heal tools away.
It doesnt have to be this way, what if we could choose a “tank” to make our live easier and take a “healer/support” with us but it would take 40% (2 of 5 dealing less damage) longer than running full DPS but it would be easier.
On the other hand, running full DPS (glasscannon) should be more risky than other setups, but with the reward of being faster (5 of 5 dealing full damage).
This would be the perfect system. But in the current PvE design with enemies only atacking every few seconds with huge hits + dodge, block etc. to evade that damage, this will be impossible to implemented.
In PvP on the other hand this is possible, because dodges arent that effective and enemies are attacking alot faster with lesser damage. There is a balance between bunker builds, burst builds and support builds, that is impossible to implement in the PvE as it is at the moment.
It doesnt have to be this way, what if we could choose a “tank” to make our live easier and take a “healer/support” with us but it would take 40% (2 of 5 dealing less damage) longer than running full DPS but it would be easier.
On the other hand, running full DPS (glasscannon) should be more risky than other setups, but with the reward of being faster (5 of 5 dealing full damage).
This… is what the game already is, minus the “tank” because there is no aggro control skills.
It doesnt have to be this way, what if we could choose a “tank” to make our live easier and take a “healer/support” with us but it would take 40% (2 of 5 dealing less damage) longer than running full DPS but it would be easier.
On the other hand, running full DPS (glasscannon) should be more risky than other setups, but with the reward of being faster (5 of 5 dealing full damage).This… is what the game already is, minus the “tank” because there is no aggro control skills.
Well… as I said, its not, running full glascannon is the most effective way, but it is not more risky (in most cases) than running with tankier setups or a support, due to the dodges/blocks and slow attacking enemies.
It doesnt have to be this way, what if we could choose a “tank” to make our live easier and take a “healer/support” with us but it would take 40% (2 of 5 dealing less damage) longer than running full DPS but it would be easier.
On the other hand, running full DPS (glasscannon) should be more risky than other setups, but with the reward of being faster (5 of 5 dealing full damage).This… is what the game already is, minus the “tank” because there is no aggro control skills.
Well… as I said, its not, running full glascannon is the most effective way, but it is not more risky (in most cases) than running with tankier setups or a support, due to the dodges/blocks and slow attacking enemies.
Right. And the only way to translate PvP to PvE is to make PvE work exactly like PvP. Every fight would have to be lots of small enemies with AI that plays exactly like players, and all the rest of the stuff that goes with PvP. If you want to give players an actual boss fight, all that goes out the window, and without the trinity, the inevitable result is exactly what we have now.
You don’t have to get rid of the trinity to deal with the issue. You just need to make it fun to play, which is quite possible. I know many players thoroughly enjoyed playing a monk in GW1. I rather liked it myself.
It doesnt have to be this way, what if we could choose a “tank” to make our live easier and take a “healer/support” with us but it would take 40% (2 of 5 dealing less damage) longer than running full DPS but it would be easier.
On the other hand, running full DPS (glasscannon) should be more risky than other setups, but with the reward of being faster (5 of 5 dealing full damage).This… is what the game already is, minus the “tank” because there is no aggro control skills.
Well… as I said, its not, running full glascannon is the most effective way, but it is not more risky (in most cases) than running with tankier setups or a support, due to the dodges/blocks and slow attacking enemies.
Running full tank you can soak up around 2x the damage taken.
Dodge and blocks – the risk is timing it right, the game was designed as an action game.
Not all enemies are slow attacking especially when a whole squad is on you, and there are always ways to avoid damage as it should be.
Of course full dps is the most effective way, only if the party can use it right.
It doesnt have to be this way, what if we could choose a “tank” to make our live easier and take a “healer/support” with us but it would take 40% (2 of 5 dealing less damage) longer than running full DPS but it would be easier.
On the other hand, running full DPS (glasscannon) should be more risky than other setups, but with the reward of being faster (5 of 5 dealing full damage).This… is what the game already is, minus the “tank” because there is no aggro control skills.
Well… as I said, its not, running full glascannon is the most effective way, but it is not more risky (in most cases) than running with tankier setups or a support, due to the dodges/blocks and slow attacking enemies.
Running full tank you can soak up around 2x the damage taken.
Not from what i have seen. 25% extra, maybe.
And if it was designed to be a action game i can’t figure why ANet spread the skills over 10 buttons, never mind forcing us to hold down a button the whole time we want to control the camera. The control scheme for this game is straight up old school MMORPG. TERA or Neverwinter on the other had has interface designed for action.
Yeah. If only you could rebind your keys. Or buy a gaming mouse.
Too bad you cant though.
It doesnt have to be this way, what if we could choose a “tank” to make our live easier and take a “healer/support” with us but it would take 40% (2 of 5 dealing less damage) longer than running full DPS but it would be easier.
On the other hand, running full DPS (glasscannon) should be more risky than other setups, but with the reward of being faster (5 of 5 dealing full damage).This… is what the game already is, minus the “tank” because there is no aggro control skills.
Well… as I said, its not, running full glascannon is the most effective way, but it is not more risky (in most cases) than running with tankier setups or a support, due to the dodges/blocks and slow attacking enemies.
Running full tank you can soak up around 2x the damage taken.
Not from what i have seen. 25% extra, maybe.
I and a friend actually tried this. We specced from full zerker to PVT-Warrior and AH/Knights-Guardian…
Do you know Alphard in Arah path 2? His Pull-into-BOOM-Attack?
You know something is wrong when you’re on your Guardian and counter that bomb with stability instead of aegis.
Srsly, that thing oneshoots a Zerkerwarrior. He lost maybe 20% of his health. Zero *’s given that day. And they say Zerker destroys game mechanics….
(edited by Molch.2078)
It doesnt have to be this way, what if we could choose a “tank” to make our live easier and take a “healer/support” with us but it would take 40% (2 of 5 dealing less damage) longer than running full DPS but it would be easier.
On the other hand, running full DPS (glasscannon) should be more risky than other setups, but with the reward of being faster (5 of 5 dealing full damage).This… is what the game already is, minus the “tank” because there is no aggro control skills.
Well… as I said, its not, running full glascannon is the most effective way, but it is not more risky (in most cases) than running with tankier setups or a support, due to the dodges/blocks and slow attacking enemies.
Running full tank you can soak up around 2x the damage taken.
Not from what i have seen. 25% extra, maybe.
And if it was designed to be a action game i can’t figure why ANet spread the skills over 10 buttons, never mind forcing us to hold down a button the whole time we want to control the camera. The control scheme for this game is straight up old school MMORPG. TERA or Neverwinter on the other had has interface designed for action.
yeah tera and neverwinter isnt much of an action game. they’re really not action games. they’re not good examples of an action game. tera is spank n tank game overdone mmo. neverwinter..well..lol.
(edited by Bread.7516)
Not from what i have seen. 25% extra, maybe.
I strongly recommend you and everyone else saying that every boss instagibs to actually check the difference.
It doesnt have to be this way, what if we could choose a “tank” to make our live easier and take a “healer/support” with us but it would take 40% (2 of 5 dealing less damage) longer than running full DPS but it would be easier.
On the other hand, running full DPS (glasscannon) should be more risky than other setups, but with the reward of being faster (5 of 5 dealing full damage).This… is what the game already is, minus the “tank” because there is no aggro control skills.
Well… as I said, its not, running full glascannon is the most effective way, but it is not more risky (in most cases) than running with tankier setups or a support, due to the dodges/blocks and slow attacking enemies.
Running full tank you can soak up around 2x the damage taken.
Not from what i have seen. 25% extra, maybe.
And if it was designed to be a action game i can’t figure why ANet spread the skills over 10 buttons, never mind forcing us to hold down a button the whole time we want to control the camera. The control scheme for this game is straight up old school MMORPG. TERA or Neverwinter on the other had has interface designed for action.
yeah tera and neverwinter isnt much of an action game. they’re really not action games. they’re not good examples of an action game. tera is spank n tank game overdone mmo. neverwinter..well..lol.
They can claim it is a action game all they want. But the UI is anything but conductive towards action play. Having a dodge mechanic the player needs to babysit is not enough to make it a action game either.
Both of my examples are games with interfaces much more conductive towards action focused play, as they do not default to having actions spread across half the keyboard. Not do i have to drop a lead weight on the right mouse button.
Sounds like this game may be too hard for you then, i guess.
interface could use work i agree – off topic though.
but yeah, ive been waiting for custom UI to get rid of the clutter for so long. something they had during GW1
tera and neverwinter are noskill gear to win facetank stuff. true though, still “action” games
play darksouls or monster hunter in G rank. now those are real action games where getting hit matters
(edited by Bread.7516)
And this is why the game is going to the dogs…
And this is why the game is going to the dogs…
Because people disagree with you?
I have a normal keyboard and an mouse with 2 extra buttons. I am by no means geared up to game. I activate my 1-5 skills using the 1-5 buttons, rebound my utility skills to the buttons around my wasd (namely q e c x), and my dodge and heal are on my mouse. I have no troubles with this setup except that I need to manually click my F1-4 skills, unless I take my eyes off of combat for a fraction of a second to find the right button, but both of those actions are about equally cumbersome. Oh, and sometimes I accidentally hit 4 instead of 5 or vice versa.
Yes, the UI needs changing, because it’s way too basic. No, it’s not hindering you from having a fine combat experience.
Legion of Doom [LOD] – Death ’n Taxes [DnT]
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
I used to play a game where i needed to manage 41 keybinds while PvPing. Forty. One. GW2 has one of the best default key-bindings i’ve ever seen, so far i’ve only had to move my elite skill to X. I refrain myself from changing anything else since the changes affect all my characters (i.e: I want to bind purging flames on E but would cringe if i did that with LH or any engie kits).
Luminifera ~ Guardian – Trisha Blackhands ~ Thief – Hua Yue ~ Elementalist.
i think they need to put diminishing returns on stats or if they have that implemented already then bump it up to the next level.
What purpose would that serve?
get a more variety of builds out there besides “Zerker or GTFO”.
There’s diminishing returns in average damage because of how damage is calculated in the game. After a certain point in say, critical chance, it’s much more beneficial to load power than more critical chance and vice versa. Figuring that out for your self-made build takes hours of pouring over a calculator and tweaking stats on a build simulator though.
To be honest with you, Zerker or GTFO really isn’t the way forwards. You can’t DPS if you’re dead or if you have to constantly run out of battle and heal, and there are advantages for building your defence in runes like scholar.
The Zerker or GTFO mindset came about because of the fact that for what most people are running on a daily basis at the moment, stuff like AC or champ zergs, there’s no need for defence. It doesn’t work for stuff like fractals, the new TA path etc and I would expect to see minders to change as they bring out harder content.
It does work in stuff like fractals and new TA. In fact its harder to do higher level fractals if you arent specced for full dps.
The Zerker or GTFO mindset came about because of the fact that for what most people are running on a daily basis at the moment, stuff like AC or champ zergs, there’s no need for defence. It doesn’t work for stuff like fractals, the new TA path etc and I would expect to see minders to change as they bring out harder content.
This is pretty wrong. From what I’ve heard, stuff melts so fast in the new TA with organized zerker setups that most mobs don’t even get a single attack off (from what I’ve heard because all my friends hate the path so much I haven’t been able to do it). And high level fractals are probably the place where ‘kill fast or get killed’ is even more prevalent than anywhere in the game, which is why most people in their right mind run full zerker there as well.
Legion of Doom [LOD] – Death ’n Taxes [DnT]
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
Anet made the new TA path so that the living history crew would enjoy (for a week that’s it), i’m yet to find someone who run dungeons on a daily basis running that path as much as f/u.
Luminifera ~ Guardian – Trisha Blackhands ~ Thief – Hua Yue ~ Elementalist.