Guild Wars 2

phys.7689:

Boneheart.3561:

I’m seeing about a dozen, maybe, posts mentioning that policy should be scrapped? The number one topic I remember sparking fiery outrage, like the Centralia mine, is precursor crafting. It seemed quite natural, at least to me I dunno I’m weird, to not want to share anything that wasn’t so close to being complete that it might as well be kissing the finish line.

Are there some factors I’m missing, gaps in this incident that would justify the rampant contempt? Am I leaving out too many words, causing confusion or misunderstanding? How can ArenaNet exercise transparency on conceptual content without being susceptible to vilification (general issue, nothing to do with who’s innocent or guilty in the precursor crafting incident)?

its natural for some people.
Its also in general a really bad policy for keeping people engaged with long breaks in things delivered of value.

Its also a really bad policy if you dont have a visionary style of development. If your main method of refining products is about gathering feedback and reworking things, anything that lowers your feedback is a really bad idea.

basically there is two ways to keep people engaged, constantly deliver winners often, or make big plans and talk about them and deliver on them. Whats good for some situations, is really bad in others, close to the vest communication is like this as well

That is subjective, for one, and secondly you do acknowledge that at least there have been deliveries. I heard one particular game went fourteen months without an update.

I was under the impression that ‘feedback’ and ‘reworking’ is for finalized content, whereas ‘input’ is for conceptual, yes? I don’t feel players’ input is as important as many on the forum make it out to be.

I’m not sure what you mean by “engaged”, playing the game? Surely something is being done correctly, almost two years in and the Worlds haven’t been collapsed into just two (nine, in this case).
Talking about “big plans” and delivering sounds pretty easy. You lay out what’s to be done, and then release the finished product. I have heard about there being more than a handful of details (internal obstacles), though, that make this not so easy. I feel player input wouldn’t be important at all, then, there would be no room for it.

I found really great customer-dev communication at CIG (Star Citizen).

Sometimes I wonder if all of this would be different if GW2 was crowdfunded.

Boneheart.3561:

phys.7689:

Boneheart.3561:

I’m seeing about a dozen, maybe, posts mentioning that policy should be scrapped? The number one topic I remember sparking fiery outrage, like the Centralia mine, is precursor crafting. It seemed quite natural, at least to me I dunno I’m weird, to not want to share anything that wasn’t so close to being complete that it might as well be kissing the finish line.

Are there some factors I’m missing, gaps in this incident that would justify the rampant contempt? Am I leaving out too many words, causing confusion or misunderstanding? How can ArenaNet exercise transparency on conceptual content without being susceptible to vilification (general issue, nothing to do with who’s innocent or guilty in the precursor crafting incident)?

its natural for some people.
Its also in general a really bad policy for keeping people engaged with long breaks in things delivered of value.

Its also a really bad policy if you dont have a visionary style of development. If your main method of refining products is about gathering feedback and reworking things, anything that lowers your feedback is a really bad idea.

basically there is two ways to keep people engaged, constantly deliver winners often, or make big plans and talk about them and deliver on them. Whats good for some situations, is really bad in others, close to the vest communication is like this as well

That is subjective, for one, and secondly you do acknowledge that at least there have been deliveries. I heard one particular game went fourteen months without an update.

I was under the impression that ‘feedback’ and ‘reworking’ is for finalized content, whereas ‘input’ is for conceptual, yes? I don’t feel players’ input is as important as many on the forum make it out to be.

I’m not sure what you mean by “engaged”, playing the game? Surely something is being done correctly, almost two years in and the Worlds haven’t been collapsed into just two (nine, in this case).
Talking about “big plans” and delivering sounds pretty easy. You lay out what’s to be done, and then release the finished product. I have heard about there being more than a handful of details (internal obstacles), though, that make this not so easy. I feel player input wouldn’t be important at all, then, there would be no room for it.

its not exactly subjective, this strategy has been in play for about a year, and it has not worked. All released indications of current NA/EU playership and spending that i have seen are down. As far the climate and the feeling of player/company relationship, many indications say that is suffering as well.

feedback can happen at any stage of development, and its often most effective earlier into development.

• For ex: If i decide i want to invent a finger warming keyboard, and i talk to 100 people and they say they would rather have a finger massaging keyboard, that is feedback, and it saved me a lot of time, and a lot money to get it while in the brainstorm phase rather than the finished product phase.

For an iterative development system, the more points of feedback you have, the better your product will be, because your product depends on getting feedback in order to refine itself.

going by the world hasnt collapsed isnt really a good metric, by the time the world has collapsed its usually too late to save it. What we do know, is profits are down, public metrics on hours played are down, and it seems that there is a disconnect between players and developers

talking about big plans (by big i mean overall plans) and delivering is actually the industry standard, and the standard of many industries which have a long time between products/services.
Movies, Tv, most other games, automobiles, comics, books, music just a few industries off the top of my head, where i can generally find out what a company in the field roughly has planned for the upcoming months, and the overall directions they are trying to go in.

personally i understand wanting to keep things close to your vest, but its not really a good idea in this situation from all indications.

phys.7689:

Boneheart.3561:

phys.7689:

Boneheart.3561:

I’m seeing about a dozen, maybe, posts mentioning that policy should be scrapped? The number one topic I remember sparking fiery outrage, like the Centralia mine, is precursor crafting. It seemed quite natural, at least to me I dunno I’m weird, to not want to share anything that wasn’t so close to being complete that it might as well be kissing the finish line.

Are there some factors I’m missing, gaps in this incident that would justify the rampant contempt? Am I leaving out too many words, causing confusion or misunderstanding? How can ArenaNet exercise transparency on conceptual content without being susceptible to vilification (general issue, nothing to do with who’s innocent or guilty in the precursor crafting incident)?

its natural for some people.
Its also in general a really bad policy for keeping people engaged with long breaks in things delivered of value.

Its also a really bad policy if you dont have a visionary style of development. If your main method of refining products is about gathering feedback and reworking things, anything that lowers your feedback is a really bad idea.

basically there is two ways to keep people engaged, constantly deliver winners often, or make big plans and talk about them and deliver on them. Whats good for some situations, is really bad in others, close to the vest communication is like this as well

That is subjective, for one, and secondly you do acknowledge that at least there have been deliveries. I heard one particular game went fourteen months without an update.

I was under the impression that ‘feedback’ and ‘reworking’ is for finalized content, whereas ‘input’ is for conceptual, yes? I don’t feel players’ input is as important as many on the forum make it out to be.

I’m not sure what you mean by “engaged”, playing the game? Surely something is being done correctly, almost two years in and the Worlds haven’t been collapsed into just two (nine, in this case).
Talking about “big plans” and delivering sounds pretty easy. You lay out what’s to be done, and then release the finished product. I have heard about there being more than a handful of details (internal obstacles), though, that make this not so easy. I feel player input wouldn’t be important at all, then, there would be no room for it.

its not exactly subjective, this strategy has been in play for about a year, and it has not worked. All released indications of current NA/EU playership and spending that i have seen are down. As far the climate and the feeling of player/company relationship, many indications say that is suffering as well.

feedback can happen at any stage of development, and its often most effective earlier into development.

• For ex: If i decide i want to invent a finger warming keyboard, and i talk to 100 people and they say they would rather have a finger massaging keyboard, that is feedback, and it saved me a lot of time, and a lot money to get it while in the brainstorm phase rather than the finished product phase.

For an iterative development system, the more points of feedback you have, the better your product will be, because your product depends on getting feedback in order to refine itself.

going by the world hasnt collapsed isnt really a good metric, by the time the world has collapsed its usually too late to save it. What we do know, is profits are down, public metrics on hours played are down, and it seems that there is a disconnect between players and developers

talking about big plans (by big i mean overall plans) and delivering is actually the industry standard, and the standard of many industries which have a long time between products/services.
Movies, Tv, most other games, automobiles, comics, books, music just a few industries off the top of my head, where i can generally find out what a company in the field roughly has planned for the upcoming months, and the overall directions they are trying to go in.

personally i understand wanting to keep things close to your vest, but its not really a good idea in this situation from all indications.

It’s subjective that there are “long breaks in things delivered of value”.

I think that’s still ‘input’, because it’s a completely different product after hearing that massaging was preferred over heating, not with. If the product were tested and people said they didn’t like the sensation of the heat or the addition of massaging would help, that’s feedback, right? So then you could make adjustments to the structures of the keys and the degree of heat if the sensation tested wasn’t up to snuff.

I don’t think those examples of other companies/industries stand, since audience input there might as well be worthless. The frequency in which the game is updated, I would guess almost necessitates player input.

there are two facets of the current player interaction
one is about input, you say it has no value as far as you can see. And in some cases i dont think its that important, but if you have an iterative development system you need feedback from many sources, customers, developers, media, etc. Your development loop depends on getting feedback and re baking your product. It is a lot less necessary if you have a visionary development style. IE, i make what i know is good, and you will love it because i am good. Anet says that they dont have a visionary development style, they refine based on feedback, so they actually need our feedback more, they dont really know what people want/will react till they ask them. There is nothing wrong with that, but it requires more communication.

the other facet is about players as customers and keeping them engaged with your product, as well setting expectations(or heightening it). The examples about other industries were more toward that facet of what company communication does.

JoluMarti.9165:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

What are we working on right now? Feature Pack 2 (in ~two more weeks), Season 2 of the Living World (coming back this fall), the WvW Fall Tournament, and the World Tournament Series PvP global tournament are just some of the things we are currently working on that we can tell you about right now.

After the end of the tournaments, the game will be the same since it was released!
Players really want:

• New Dungeons/Fractals nope
• New Dungeon/Fractal Rewards nope
• PvP modes/maps nope
• Guild Halls (GvG) yes
• New Legendaries yes
• New Weapon and Armor skins (No RNG) double yes
• Precursor Crafting yes

Please, stop tournaments and living story, We want more permanent content!
We’ve spent years asking and you don’t listen us!

Thanks for reading and responding.

So let me first explain why the nopes part of the problem with this title for 2 years now has been the focus on WvW PvP and Dungeons. This game was never meant to be about dungeons it was originally supposed to be all about PVE open world. On the PVP side it’s been such a problem in that all of the rewards from playing go only to the dungeons/WvW/EotM so in order to fix the problems with lack of rewards for the rest of the larger population, the one I suspect they are trying to get back, they need to stop focusing on PVP/dungeons and start focusing more on open world and ALL of the sundry problems that go with open world that have been broken for so long. (such as pve imbalance which is seen in the ability of some classes to solo dungeons, lack of rewards, lack of essential crafting materials related to the RNG you speak of, their own trinity not in the game (support, CC) lack of diversity in weapons and builds, etc etc) So instead of asking for more PVP you should be asking for fixes to the problems the larger community needs which means more revenue more content because the larger community pays for that. If you scare away the larger community by focusing on the wrong things you end up cutting off the hand that feeds you in the long run.

Secondly, they’ve already said their dungeon team wouldn’t be working on dungeons or hard mode dungeons because it’s too time consuming WHICH btw is basically what Colin said in his famous prelaunch interviews about the early direction of the game before they dropped the fractal bomb and ascended grind on everyone in Nov 2012.

I think it’s high time they refocus their efforts on getting this game back to it’s roots.

it is then pointless to communicate with us at all, I prefer the entire staff go back into hiding than just keep repeating “sorry, no comment”..you guys sound like government officials.

They could convert all of the Dungeons into Open World Dungeons.

ipan.4356:

Leo G.4501:

ipan.4356:

Can you see why there’s a conflict in that?

What you say you cannot do, is the only thing we actually want you to do.

We want to know what’s being developed, so we can decide whether it’s worth investing our time further in this game.

If new content is at least being planned (even without knowing how long it will take, exactly what form it will take – though a general idea would be nice, like “dungeons”, or “open world zones”, or “fractals” would at least give us a heads up as to what kind of material to expect eventually) then we can say to ourselves,

‘Hey, I don’t know when I’m going to get it – but I know they are on the same page and are working on it’

Right now, it seems like the answer to, ‘Is there going to be new content or not’, is simply ‘no’ (*unless you love Living Story and e-sports).

That IS the communication problem – you’re not communicating anything.

So you’re saying they should leave the forums and stop talking to us unless they plan on violating a policy they have little power to change? Likely, that policy was suggested from up the line (coughNCSofdspfhcough) so how do you suggest they get around something like that?

There is the fact that the devs are also players too. The reason, IMO, these threads feel so awkward is because there’s only that ‘demand’ and ‘deny’ mentality between us and the devs. I think this could change with time.

No matter where the policy came from – it’s a bad idea.

If it’s an NCSoft thing, then I truly feel sorry for the dev’s.

Do you every read blogs by game developers who left big companies to strike out on their own?

People like Tim Shcafer or Chris Roberts or ex-Blizzard employees, or Richard Garriot?

Have you read the things they say about the time they spent with their respective company?

It often reads like a horror story.

I can empathize with creative people being stuck with a stiffling corporate overlord.

But it doesn’t change the ground facts – this policy, no matter where it comes from will destroy all player trust.

They need to do the opposite – communicate more of their intentions (while leaving juicy details – i.e. spoilers – out). They need to give us an idea of the direction the game is going in (for example, do they plan on adding new open world content – and what kind, new maps? new dungeons? just more Livid Story?)

That way, people at least know whether the game is going North, West, East…or South. A lot of people want to know if the game is heading South for them…because if it is, we are wasting our time.

We don’t need to know so much that is heading North by Northwest….or whether it’s going to take a detour, or a go through a tunnel.

We just want to know the cardinal direction (translation: what kind of content is definitely being developed).

How can Chris say they want to communicate more, and then Colin comes and says they can’t talk about anything? There’s an obvious disconnect there – a cognitive dissonance.

And it appears to have kittened people off even more – understandably.

So, Anet – change your policy post haste.

You need to have an emergency meeting with whomever this policy comes from and remove it.

It’s better to communicate often – and clearly – including revising what you’ve already told people.

Players don’t mind switching horses midstream as much as you think they do – but they want constant updates and clear reasons why it’s happening.

Best example I can find to prove your point was when players asked why our character stopped being voiced in LS2 compared to Personal story and were given the reason behind the technical limitations and the intentions for the future and every single player that had that worry was satisfied by that answer. Is it that hard to do?

ColinJohanson.2394:

I’ll start a separate thread shortly to discussion one of the potential ideas for how we could help provide at least a bit more of a clear picture similar to CDI to help guide and discuss topics while staying within the company policies on communication development.

I’ll also make sure your feedback is passed up the chain from those who gave feedback on that specific policy.

Thanks folks!

Thanks you too

Hi Colin,

Perhaps just a broad description or high-level view of what content is to come after it passes a Development Review. If it meets that “point of no return” in development where it’s on ya’lls internal schedule and it has met the requirements of the leads, that should be a steady point to announce it to the public community IMO.

Pass Review = Announce to community that X is coming. No details, just the large picture.

So for example…we had Feature Pack 1 back on April 15th. March 20th, nearly a month before, we had the new trait system revealed. That 1 month is a good example of revealing a piece of content to the community that already has a set internal date for release. The hype and the clarity that has come from the reveals of each Feature Pack – something like that could be presented for any projects that are “on the table” “in planning” or “in iteration.”

The important thing though, is not to make a big presentation out of it. Personally, I feel that’s why everyone took your “state of the game” blogs as promises that content would be released by X date. When a feature still in iteration is being developed, just let us know that you guys are working on it.

(We’ve been working out different ways to implement this feature. We’ve currently been iterating for X weeks or we’ve had Y major iterations while we develop this content/feature.)

People don’t have to know how agile development works, but when they can see what amount of effort has been done to develop a piece of content, they can more accurately understand the state the project is at.

I know the policy is don’t reveal stuff that Anet is working on. Personally, I feel…if the company has already gotten through a majority of the development (say 50-60% not including testing) and the content has an internal date within the project timeline that Anet would like to release the content, then I feel it’s safe to announce that project to the community. Keep the timeline internal, so it can shift as necessary to address problems that may arise, but knowing that X is in development and you are comfortable to share X with the fans lets us know that it will be coming in the next few months.

Thank you for your time, sir.

Clint

ViviTribal.6310:

I’m so excited, and I just can’t hide it
I’m about to lose control and I think .. I’ll go to bed now.

I had many loud belly guffaws from that one.

ColinJohanson.2394:

I’ll start a separate thread shortly to discussion one of the potential ideas for how we could help provide at least a bit more of a clear picture similar to CDI to help guide and discuss topics while staying within the company policies on communication development.

I’ll also make sure your feedback is passed up the chain from those who gave feedback on that specific policy.

Thanks folks!

We don’t want you to “stay within company policies” – we want you to change the policy and communicate the direction you’re going in more.

phys.7689:

one is about input, you say it has no value as far as you can see.

We are so not on the same page.

ipan.4356:

We…

I do.

ipan.4356:

We don’t want you to “stay within company policies” – we want you to change the policy and communicate the direction you’re going in more.

As direct as this statement may be, I do believe it is true.

It’s so hard to change a policy that the entire company has been following probably since it’s initial creation, but in this age of crowd-sourcing information through areas like reddit, blogs, podcasts, and the like, it may be time for a change.

Good luck with whatever you and the company decide, Colin.

Consider the impact of this company policy on the perception a customer has of your product.

(1) A customer knows next to nothing about anything further than a week out.
(2) It appears is if projects are not worth announcing because the percentage of projects which get canceled is way too high.
(3) At worst, a customer might even get the impression that there is no plan or organization in the first place and everything told is lip service.
(4) There is a constant tug of war between developer spin and player cynicism.
(5) There is a strategy to give players a run-around for roughly six months after which nothing changed and the same suggestions get collected that were collected in 2012.

Regina’s quote in the beginning is the perfect example. It somehow covers all game types, it vaguely announces things further out than one week, but it has zero impact, because it packs no punching power.

ColinJohanson.2394:

ipan.4356:

We don’t want you to “stay within company policies” – we want you to change the policy and communicate the direction you’re going in more.

Yup as I said, I’ll pass that feedback up the chain!

Cool, that’s a start.

Thanks Colin, you’ve been helpful today.

+2 cookies for you.

They can’t tell us what they are working on since they are not working on any thing big related to gw2.
If you want to know what they have been doing the last 2 years then here
http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/

ColinJohanson.2394:

ipan.4356:

We don’t want you to “stay within company policies” – we want you to change the policy and communicate the direction you’re going in more.

Yup as I said, I’ll pass that feedback up the chain!

Thank you so much Colin!
You’re the best! =)

ColinJohanson.2394:

I’ll start a separate thread shortly to discussion one of the potential ideas for how we could help provide at least a bit more of a clear picture similar to CDI to help guide and discuss topics while staying within the company policies on communication development.

I’ll also make sure your feedback is passed up the chain from those who gave feedback on that specific policy.

Thanks folks!

“Up the chain”? You’re the Game Director. How does the chain not start & end with you?

I’ll just echo what others have said here… the more you say “oh, we can’t talk about that”, the more frustrated we’re going to get. The more frustrated we get, the more toxic it’s going to become around here.

I usually defend Anet, but I can’t right now. Those last 2 interviews were disasters, and you’re really not helping yourself with your posts here either.

Valky.2574:

They can’t tell us what they are working on since they are not working on any thing big related to gw2.
If you want to know what they have been doing the last 2 years then here
http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/

how that much time, effort, and money could be put into such garbage is mind boggling

They are working on creating a list of things they can’t talk about.

ipan.4356:

They are working on creating a list of things they can’t talk about.

Colin, how much do you want for the golden goose?

If you do not want to communicate about things until they are ready to ship then the developers have to be 100% sure that they know what the majority
of players want and how they want it implemented.

This is a very risky bet. In the case of the commander tag the bet failed partially. The damage could be fixed over weekend. What happens when a big bet fails? Back to the board for several/many months? In some cases it could break GW2’s neck.

In my opinion we need a solid communication between players and Arenanet. Both sides have to know what the other side wants/likes/dislikes/aims for. There has to be a windows between (near) end of development and launch where the players should be involved if needed. The drama around the commander tag was completely avoidable with a proper working communication between both sides.

Valky.2574:

They can’t tell us what they are working on since they are not working on any thing big related to gw2.
If you want to know what they have been doing the last 2 years then here
http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/

Wildstar is developed by Carbine Studios.

Belenwyn.8674:

If you do not want to communicate about things until they are ready to ship then the developers have to be 100% sure that they know what the majority
of players want and how they want it implemented.

This is a very risky bet. In the case of the commander tag the bet failed partially. The damage could be fixed over weekend. What happens when a big bet fails? Back to the board for several/many months? In some cases it could break GW2’s neck.

In my opinion we need a solid communication between players and Arenanet. Both sides have to know what the other side wants/likes/dislikes/aims for. There has to be a windows between (near) end of development and launch where the players should be involved if needed. The drama around the commander tag was completely avoidable with a proper working communication between both sides.

Have there been any “big bets” in the past?

Bensozia.8071:

Valky.2574:

They can’t tell us what they are working on since they are not working on any thing big related to gw2.
If you want to know what they have been doing the last 2 years then here
http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/

Wildstar is developed by Carbine Studios.

If you rearrange the letters, ‘Carbine Studios’ spells ‘We Are ArenaNet’. Coincidence?

ipan.4356:

ColinJohanson.2394:

I’ll start a separate thread shortly to discussion one of the potential ideas for how we could help provide at least a bit more of a clear picture similar to CDI to help guide and discuss topics while staying within the company policies on communication development.

I’ll also make sure your feedback is passed up the chain from those who gave feedback on that specific policy.

Thanks folks!

We don’t want you to “stay within company policies” – we want you to change the policy and communicate the direction you’re going in more.

So, you want the devs to get fired.

When someone with greater authority says “we will do it this way,” you do it this way, whether you agree with your boss or not. Telling the boss “I don’t care what you want me to do, I’m going to do it this other way,” will lead to disciplinary action up to and including termination of employment.

To put the dev comment in plain English, “I’ll tell my boss that you are not satisfied with the way things are done, but we have to do it this way until he says otherwise.”

What you want is irrelevant, you don’t sign the devs’ paychecks, and you don’t get to give them orders.

tolunart.2095:

ipan.4356:

ColinJohanson.2394:

I’ll start a separate thread shortly to discussion one of the potential ideas for how we could help provide at least a bit more of a clear picture similar to CDI to help guide and discuss topics while staying within the company policies on communication development.

I’ll also make sure your feedback is passed up the chain from those who gave feedback on that specific policy.

Thanks folks!

We don’t want you to “stay within company policies” – we want you to change the policy and communicate the direction you’re going in more.

So, you want the devs to get fired.

When someone with greater authority says “we will do it this way,” you do it this way, whether you agree with your boss or not. Telling the boss “I don’t care what you want me to do, I’m going to do it this other way,” will lead to disciplinary action up to and including termination of employment.

To put the dev comment in plain English, “I’ll tell my boss that you are not satisfied with the way things are done, but we have to do it this way until he says otherwise.”

What you want is irrelevant, you don’t sign the devs’ paychecks, and you don’t get to give them orders.

And you’re not helping things at all.

You know what will also cause the dev’s to lose their jobs? Being laid off because the game goes broke.

oshilator.4681:

ColinJohanson.2394:

I’ll start a separate thread shortly to discussion one of the potential ideas for how we could help provide at least a bit more of a clear picture similar to CDI to help guide and discuss topics while staying within the company policies on communication development.

I’ll also make sure your feedback is passed up the chain from those who gave feedback on that specific policy.

Thanks folks!

“Up the chain”? You’re the Game Director. How does the chain not start & end with you?

I’m pretty sure Colin doesn’t own NCSoft. His title doesn’t have “executive” in it either, so he’s probably not on the board of directors or anything like that. In fact there are probably several links in the chain above him and below “NCSoft CEO.”

The devs make the game, they don’t make company policy.

tolunart.2095:

oshilator.4681:

ColinJohanson.2394:

I’ll start a separate thread shortly to discussion one of the potential ideas for how we could help provide at least a bit more of a clear picture similar to CDI to help guide and discuss topics while staying within the company policies on communication development.

I’ll also make sure your feedback is passed up the chain from those who gave feedback on that specific policy.

Thanks folks!

“Up the chain”? You’re the Game Director. How does the chain not start & end with you?

I’m pretty sure Colin doesn’t own NCSoft. His title doesn’t have “executive” in it either, so he’s probably not on the board of directors or anything like that. In fact there are probably several links in the chain above him and below “NCSoft CEO.”

The devs make the game, they don’t make company policy.

I can give you lots of examples where ‘company policy’ destroyed a game.

ipan.4356:

And you’re not helping things at all.

You know what will also cause the dev’s to lose their jobs? Being laid off because the game goes broke.

That’s amusing.

This game doesn’t have a monthly sub option. Most of the people complaining here don’t spend money on the game. Most of the people spending money on the game are not complaining.

Your arguments are not going to have any effect on Anet/NCSoft revenue, and therefore have little chance of having an effect on anyone who isn’t responding here. That includes both the people spending money on the game and the bosses who make the rules.

tolunart.2095:

ipan.4356:

And you’re not helping things at all.

You know what will also cause the dev’s to lose their jobs? Being laid off because the game goes broke.

That’s amusing.

This game doesn’t have a monthly sub option. Most of the people complaining here don’t spend money on the game. Most of the people spending money on the game are not complaining.

Your arguments are not going to have any effect on Anet/NCSoft revenue, and therefore have little chance of having an effect on anyone who isn’t responding here. That includes both the people spending money on the game and the bosses who make the rules.

You know what’s amusing? That you think you’re helping anyone.

You know what you’re really doing? Throwing gasoline on flames.

I’m not the one complaining and making demands that no one here has the authority to grant.

Good to hear some anet posts colin. These posters are just hounding for a post from you guys. Gotta give them a bone or two now and then, else they go restless and rage quit and hate everything and walltext how anet is not giving them enough attention..etc..the kids are being mean to them I know..hehe. Well good to see more anet interaction on the forums. Good job, keep up the good work. Do your thing. Back to lurking the forums I go.

tolunart.2095:

I’m not the one complaining and making demands that no one here has the authority to grant.

No, what you’re doing is attempting to dimmunize and trivialize people’s legitimate issues with this game.

You are antagonizing well meaning customers who have serious complaints – to the detriment of the community.

No, I’m not.

ipan.4356:

tolunart.2095:

I’m not the one complaining and making demands that no one here has the authority to grant.

No, what you’re doing is attempting to dimmunize and trivialize people’s legitimate issues with this game.

You are antagonizing well meaning customers who have serious complaints – to the detriment of the community.

Hardly. They made one post, not even a new thread, about how unlikely it is we’ll see the level of transparency you demanded. Yes, you sure as hell didn’t ask.

Was the cookies thing a reference to the bin of cookies they were sent, or a patronizing comment?

There are some glaring issues that could use some attention though. Dont want to forget those though.

tolunart.2095:

ipan.4356:

And you’re not helping things at all.

You know what will also cause the dev’s to lose their jobs? Being laid off because the game goes broke.

That’s amusing.

This game doesn’t have a monthly sub option. Most of the people complaining here don’t spend money on the game. Most of the people spending money on the game are not complaining.

Your arguments are not going to have any effect on Anet/NCSoft revenue, and therefore have little chance of having an effect on anyone who isn’t responding here. That includes both the people spending money on the game and the bosses who make the rules.

you know why some (not most) that complain are not spending money? for many of the same reasons I have not in a long time. they are
1. unhappy with the game / do not play enough for the gems to be worth it
2. unhappy with the company
3. think that it is total BS to spend 10 bucks on gems for something like a character slot, one in which they may spend maybe even more than 100 more on over the next few months.
4. are not adults.

not sure where you found our bank and credit statements but I have spent well…it is none of anyone’s business what I have spent, or even if I had just got the game and never spent another dime, I am still a customer the same as we all are.

tolunart.2095:

ipan.4356:

And you’re not helping things at all.

You know what will also cause the dev’s to lose their jobs? Being laid off because the game goes broke.

That’s amusing.

This game doesn’t have a monthly sub option. Most of the people complaining here don’t spend money on the game. Most of the people spending money on the game are not complaining.

Your arguments are not going to have any effect on Anet/NCSoft revenue, and therefore have little chance of having an effect on anyone who isn’t responding here. That includes both the people spending money on the game and the bosses who make the rules.

I’ve spent at least a few hundred $$ and currently regret it ..and am highly averse to spending more. I feel there’s too much uncertainty about where the game is headed; I’ve lost a lot of respect/trust in the people running the show and it just doesn’t seem like such a “sound investment” anymore. When it comes to games, I invest in expected enjoyment. I’ve invested much more on this game than I have anything else in the past, and currently feel kind of ripped off.

The company has let me down and the game has not turned out nearly how I thought it would have been after 2yrs. I find it absolutely jaw-dropping that this far into the game we still have only gotten 2 small permanent zones, still lack things GW1 had like 1st person view, Guild Halls, enter-kitten-continents, etc. When it launched so bare by comparison, I was disappointed but patient. I still had faith in Anet and still spent a bunch on gems. Anet had such a good track record, and this game had so much potential. But more and more time has passed and by now that patience (and willingness to spend) is seriously wearing thin.

poisonality.8972:

you know why some (not most) that complain are not spending money?

Because the forums attract “hardcore” players who devote most of their free time to playing the game (aka grinding). By grinding the game, they accumulate in-game currency which Anet generously allows them to trade for gems instead of spending cash.

If you choose not to spend money on the game because you don’t think it’s worth spending money on, so be it. But a lot of players have spent $60 on a product that they enjoyed over hundreds of hours, when they could have spent that same money on a meal for two and enjoyed it for a single evening. Then they have the nerve to tell the devs to disobey their bosses and give them orders and expect the devs to follow those orders (some of which directly conflict with other orders from other players) immediately and without question.

I’d like to see these people go to a restaurant and order dinner, then go back the next day and claim that they have the right to order around the waitstaff because they spent so much money the night before that they should pretty much own the place. See how far that gets them.

Spend $60 or $600 or $6000, it still doesn’t give you the right to make demands, you got what you paid for and the devs throw free stuff at you every two weeks besides.

tolunart.2095:

poisonality.8972:

you know why some (not most) that complain are not spending money?

Because the forums attract “hardcore” players who devote most of their free time to playing the game (aka grinding). By grinding the game, they accumulate in-game currency which Anet generously allows them to trade for gems instead of spending cash.

If you choose not to spend money on the game because you don’t think it’s worth spending money on, so be it. But a lot of players have spent $60 on a product that they enjoyed over hundreds of hours, when they could have spent that same money on a meal for two and enjoyed it for a single evening. Then they have the nerve to tell the devs to disobey their bosses and give them orders and expect the devs to follow those orders (some of which directly conflict with other orders from other players) immediately and without question.

I’d like to see these people go to a restaurant and order dinner, then go back the next day and claim that they have the right to order around the waitstaff because they spent so much money the night before that they should pretty much own the place. See how far that gets them.

Spend $60 or $600 or $6000, it still doesn’t give you the right to make demands, you got what you paid for and the devs throw free stuff at you every two weeks besides.

if they expect us to keep spending, then yes, we do have the right to make demands. nothing I read said anything about disobeying a boss, we have told them let the big-wigs know they suck, the policy sucks, and many other aspects of the forums, communication, updates and such suck just as much.
I’m not sure if you have ever been very high up in a company but when large portions of your customers are complaining, its time for a change.

poisonality.8972:

I’m not sure if you have ever been very high up in a company but when large portions of your customers are complaining, its time for a change.

There are approximately 4 million GW2 accounts. What percentage of those accounts are complaining? What percentage of those accounts are buying gems? Which is larger?

I don’t know the numbers, but I know the answer to the last question.

Also, I don’t know if you understood my point, but to be clear: most of the complaints are not coming from paying customers. They are playing the game for free and obtaining gems for free and enjoying new content without paying a dime for it, and complaining that it’s not enough.

When you go into a restaurant and order a single cup of coffee, you don’t get to sit there from open to close and then complain about the service.

about the coffee, I have seen it lol although thats a bit of a derail. but no, I understood your point entirely, I have a different opinion

edit: oops, hit the post button on accident. anyhow to get a number on those that are complaining you would have to go in game because not very many actually use these forums compared to the total playerbase, and some remain silent and hope for the vocal ones to be loud enough to make a change. nobody knows how many want changes made, or more of the same.

all we are doing (you included) are offering opinions. there is no need to get a chip on your shoulder about it on either side of the discussion

The forums can become something of a closed system – the same dozen people or so can go around and around for months saying the same things. When you believe something and a half dozen or so posts support your opinion, it’s easy to become convinced that a lot of people support your position.

But when the vast majority of players never even visit the forums, data obtained from tracking players in the game can tell you more about what is popular or unpopular than the forums can. You’re working with input from a dozen players, while Anet is working with data from hundreds of thousands of players. If you try to look at the big picture you can see that the forums are not a scale model of the game’s population.

For example, a lot of posts about the Living Story have been very negative since the beginning, but Anet’s official position has been to continue supporting it regardless of what the forums have to say about it. Do you believe that this is because Anet enjoys working on content that their players don’t want and their ultimate goal is to chase away their loyal customers until the company goes bankrupt? Or do you think that they have a source of data outside the forums which indicate that a lot of people log in specifically to do the LS content every time a new chapter is released? That among those who do not post on the forums, it is a popular feature that receives a lot of attention from players, and those same players are perhaps the ones who spend a lot of money on gems… and thus their satisfaction is a priority for Anet, because ultimately happy players buying gems means the game is profitable and development of new features can be funded by those happy players.

I like how OP (as well as some other people on forum) talk in everyone’s name…You completely ignoring the fact that some players LIKE Living Story…Just cause u dont like it,as well as some other (already famous) forum ragers and trollers dont…doesn’t mean that other people do not want it.I love Living Story and i dont want it gone just cause some of you are selfish.This game is not developed just for minority of you that complain all the time.Arena Net knows how many active players they have and that proves them that what they doing,…..they are doing it right.You want expansion?Ok ask for them ( im not selfish).You want mounts,SAB,new legendaries and all other things that i dont care about?Ok as for them…..but dont be selfish and trying to take away content that other players already have and like to play.God this community….

saalle.4623:

I like how OP (as well as some other people on forum) talk in everyone’s name…You completely ignoring the fact that some players LIKE Living Story…Just cause u dont like it,as well as some other (already famous) forum ragers and trollers dont…doesn’t mean that other people do not want it.I love Living Story and i dont want it gone just cause some of you are selfish.This game is not developed just for minority of you that complain all the time.Arena Net knows how many active players they have and that proves them that what they doing,…..they are doing it right.You want expansion?Ok ask for them ( im not selfish).You want mounts,SAB,new legendaries and all other things that i dont care about?Ok as for them…..but dont be selfish and trying to take away content that other players already have and like to play.God this community….

I personally like it as well (like for instance the better system of actually finding rewards they’ve installed that I wish they’d install across the entire Tyria experience) and yes I disagree with the OP about PVP WvW and dungeons ever being the focus of the game again.

I don’t mind them working on PVP personally so long as they deliver equal attention to PVE however, I think I speak for many in the PVE community that feel the same way that combat, diversity, traits, rewards, and progression all need heavy attention in PVE going forward before their normal schedule of content continues in any system because of the serious problems in PVE and in the overall game experience with these aspects. This game needs an overhaul to bring it back to it’s glory, the prelaunch goals glory.

I know this isn’t exactly what everyone else is talking about but could we get a status update on the mac client? Also, the mac client support forums update notes thread is either wrong or worded poorly. It lists bugs as being fixed that are not fixed (or aren’t really bugs, just bad default settings such as the mouse scroll functionality).

I appreciate the cleanup and update you guys did a few months back, just hoping it wasn’t a one time thing (coming up on 2 years of “beta” here soon, just to give you some reference to why we’re frustrated).