What class has the worst heal/sustain?

What class has the worst heal/sustain?

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Posted by: DGraves.3720

DGraves.3720

I am just curious what you think. Go-go cleric’s gear!

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Posted by: CadeRG.4508

CadeRG.4508

I’d have to say Thief :P

Vaulting daredevil leap frog teef of AoE destruction

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Thief, I’m pretty sure. Necro is a bit of an odd case in that they don’t pair well with healers (due to Shroud blocking all healing from others), but their own healing is above average.

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Posted by: Keadron.9570

Keadron.9570

I would have to go with thief… evades and escape yes but heal is low

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Posted by: that baby stealing dingo.7216

that baby stealing dingo.7216

Teef, teef, and teef. Low health pool, no invuln, no protection, no stability…

I have a sword, a dagger, and an estimated life span of 2.47 seconds.

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Posted by: TexZero.7910

TexZero.7910

If thief is running IP / SA sustain is no issue. If not they have very little to self sustain with.

On a side note did they ever fix the withdraw heal scaling being 33% lower than it’s supposed to be ?

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Posted by: FogLeg.9354

FogLeg.9354

Thief is always dead, no heals, no real condi cleaning. Does not matter how much their damage is boosted, if enemy is not dead after first second, thief will die.

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Posted by: Exciton.8942

Exciton.8942

Do not agree with thief having the worst heal.
Withdraw is probably one of the best heal in game.

Regarding sustain, I still remember thief having amazing sustain duration the SA DP meta before expansion. Current thief sustain is a bit less but still decent. When judging sustain, you have to put things into perspective. The popular thief burst build has probably one of the best sustain among all the bursty builds. TBH, most other bursty builds can hardly make into meta. Thief being the exception has a lot to do with its great ability to sustain in a game.

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Posted by: Blood Red Arachnid.2493

Blood Red Arachnid.2493

I’m perplexed with what you guys are talking about. I play a thief, and their heals are excellent. Signet of Malice and Invigorating Precision are excellent heals, hitting upwards of 3k health per second in peak conditions. Aside from SoM, Channeled Vigor hits 366 health per second untraited with full endurance, and Withdraw can heal for 241 health per second, 301 when traited. The other traits to consider are mug (2k per 30 seconds), driven fortitude (458 per second), shadow’s rejuvenation (293 per second), leeching venoms (325 per hit), and the newly buffed Assassin’s Reward (102 per second).

Thieves are paper, but thief healing is solid, if not dependent on the opponents actions. Out of all the classes I play, the one that has the least healing (at least for me) is the necromancer. Necromancers have high bulk and life force, but their raw healing power is actually pretty low.

I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.

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Posted by: Mea.5491

Mea.5491

Out of all the classes I play, the one that has the least healing (at least for me) is the necromancer. Necromancers have high bulk and life force, but their raw healing power is actually pretty low.

That depends on many things. I play my own weird build: shroud-heavy life siphon dagger Necro in Knight gear and I am invincible. Not to mention the stun break, stability, condi cleanse on shroud + one extra condi cleanse every 3 sec in shroud. Yummy!

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Posted by: Cerby.1069

Cerby.1069

Warrior still terrible sustain. Healing signet has really high base but it just doesn’t do much given the skill sets. Idk if using to the limit with the new buffs gives you decent enough sustain or not. It’s a very nice heal now though.

I also have no idea what they are talking about when they say thief has bad sustain…
Spec full glass cannon with max’d endurance regen….spec in a sigil of leeching and go from there.

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Posted by: Vesuvius.9874

Vesuvius.9874

Teef, teef, and teef. Low health pool, no invuln, no protection, no stability…

If you need more health, invulnerability, protection and stability on your thief, then you’re not playing it right. You’ll be better off playing a different class.

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Posted by: PaxTheGreatOne.9472

PaxTheGreatOne.9472

well…

For healers (=/=self heal/self sustain):

From worst to best:

BAD HEALERS

  1. Thief, (not really usable as healer, heals are very difficult to accces at short order
    (regen when you get allies stealthed, shared venom for healing… )
  2. Mesmer (difficult to use as healer at best, heals are very undependable
    (Healing mantra/ regenerative Phantasm, heals (often) based on amount of illusions)

OKAY HEALERS

  1. Engineer (okay as support healer, no true healer but support will aid
    (supply drop, healing turret, bandages and elixers)
  2. Necromancer (okay as support healer, no true healer but support will aid)
    (Vampiric, Mark of blood (on dodge) focus, well of blood, transfusion)
  3. Warrior (okay as support healer, no true healer but support will aid)
    (shout heal/ regnerating banners/adrenal health/signet)

GOOD/GREAT HEALERS

  1. Revenant (Ventari) (also good/great as healer)
    (Ventari is build as healing/support set
  2. Elementalist/Tempest (also good/great as healer)
    (water/arcane(/tempest) regen, heal on aura(mancer), waters & blasts, soothing mists)
  3. Ranger/Druid (also good/great as healer)
    (Druid Spec, regen on shouts warhorn, healing Spring, healing pets and f2)
  4. Guardian (less when playing dragonhunter) (also good/great as healer)
    (virtue of resolve, healing on symbols, healing on dodge,altruistic heals)

For self heals the list is comparable, but… signet of malice (for example) from thief will be more effective then mesmer heals due to it dependance ONLY on attacks not something situational as illusions. For self heals I find mesmer more difficult then thief.

The fact both thief and mesmer both have realively bad heals could correspond to their acces to stealth/invisibility, which used to be class bound.

Small Remark, due to scrapper’s acces to a long sustainable stealth, it might be right to nerf healing for scrapper’s while stealthed

BIG NOTE Most of my remarks come form my experiences from playing support and healing builds While i’ve tried running healer on mesmer and thief I find them less capable as healers.

About self sustain, most characters are on par with ranger, necro, guardian, warrior and ele being top due to best self heals
and
thief + mesmer just winnin cause the can vanish when needed, thief has a added dodge being daredevil which does really tend to be helpfull. signet of malice on thief with S+P / P+P tends to be a very good way to stay alive with or without stealth, mesmer has less potent heals IMHO.

So in the end my vote goes to mesmer as worst heal character.

23 lvl 80’s, 9 times map, 4ele, 4ncr, 3war, 3grd, 3rgr, 2thf, 2msm, 1eng, 1 rev.
Been There, Done That & Will do it again…except maybe world completion.

(edited by PaxTheGreatOne.9472)

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Posted by: Asrat.2645

Asrat.2645

How…how can you say this? How could anybody say thieves had no sustainability? In terms of group healing: maybe but when it comes to simple sustain i would probably put them as one of the top, if not the top class. Depends on the situation tho.
Youre immortal to scrap mobs, unless they are using ranged weapons or find other ways to get around your black powder.
You can easily stay alive in pretty much every bossfight, but you might have to sacrifice dps due to moving out of range for a while.
But in general in pve…invigorating precision, black powder, the daredevil. I doubt theres any class with that much survivability on a full zerker.
And pvp? Harder, but i was still able to run around a rock for 12 min straight, having at least 2 people chasing me all the time. The new acro-line offers some great stuff there.
But what is up with this anyways? Everywhere I go I see thieves complaining about how squishy they are. Rly, the meta build is designed for situations, where your team is good enough, to make anything but pure damage obsolete, outside of those situations: try to think for youself.
The only other class that i would consider capable of soloing a 99 fractal is ele. about as good movement and passive healing.

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Posted by: Lahmia.2193

Lahmia.2193

Thief: Zerker sword/pistol, with invigorating precision and signet of malice. Spam Pistol Whip/Black Powder and you will not die.
Necro (Reaper): Zerker Minion master with all the bells and whistles is near unkillable. The damage mitigation from “Rise” and the sustain from the minion life steal (and your own) is rather amazing.
I’d say these two are far more sustainable than any other class in zerker gear.

Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death.

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Posted by: Ananeos.4587

Ananeos.4587

Thief has the worst heal in the game. Mesmer has the worst sustained damage in the game. Actually come to think of it Mesmer is the worst class in the game. Go teefs I guess.

Hailsec – Asuran Mesmer | EVOS
Zraiyya – Asuran Elementalist | EVOS
Akkodi – Asuran Engineer | EVOS

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Posted by: Relair.1843

Relair.1843

Thief has a GREAT heal. Channeled Vigor heals for like 5.5-7k with no healing power and restores a big chunk of endurance. Traited its on only 16s cooldown. So on such a short timer you heal like up to half your health and get enough endurance for another dodge. Far from the worst heal in the game. I havent tried to see how it scales with healing power yet.

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Posted by: Loboling.5293

Loboling.5293

I’d say mesmer has worse sustained healing potential than thief. A thief built for healing is comical, but not great for meta anything. They crumble easy, but can bring their hp back up very quick. In fact, I think Revenant is also worse than thief. So thief would probably be 3rd, cause they lack sustain due to squishyness, but they got lots of healing.

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Posted by: andyhens.4172

andyhens.4172

I’m shocked at all the thief votes. The answer will vary dependant on the content, but thief can sustain itself a lot via Signet of Malice and Ivigorating Precision. Daredevil’s extra dodges also help if you know a big hit is coming. I’d argue you can take a lower number of mid-big hits due to low health pool, but aside from that and maybe insane condi pressure (re: CM) you should be okay.

My vote goes to mesmer. In solo settings it’s able to sustain but the damage output is so horribly low even with Sword MH.

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Posted by: Cirian.8917

Cirian.8917

I’m getting great sustain on my daredevil with Invigorating Precision and their heal skill + heal on evade, albeit they’re squishy against a spike. My mesmer’s the same with Restoritive Mantras, very decent sustain there and plenty of defensive layers to back it up.

No, where I find the least sustain is on the berserker.

The berserker only seems to have one gear when it comes to healing. There’s no decent supplements that lie in Arms/Discipline/Berserker, which are the lines you take for effective berserking i.e. condition damage and the most frequent adrenaline unloading.

The base warrior has nerfed healing shouts (compared to pre June 23rd patch) and Adrenal Health heals based on camping adrenaline, i.e. goes against the fundamental berserker’s mechanic of going rageface and splurging it as frequently and violently as possible on “those enemies over there”.

The berserker’s maximum supplemental healing in Arms/Discipline/Berserker is Inspiring Battle Standard paired with Banner of Tactics, of which the skill 2 heals for a miserly ~600 points and the regen is negligable without some healing power investment.

Now there’s an argument there for “well, invest in healing power silly”, except that nobody needs to do that on a daredevil or mesmer, dragonhunter, reaper, elementalist, engineer or even really druid… hmm, did I miss any classes? Revenant. Hmm, nope. Then it’s just the berserker whose supplemental healing is terrible.

This isn’t a problem in team settings like raids because the berserker sits in a raw DPS role and gets support from team mates. Soloing random HoT open world content on the other hand is more brutal on a berserker than on any other class by a mile. Healing Signet, mango pie and banner regen don’t cut it, but hey maybe the berserker just wasn’t designed to be outside a team.

A good healing supplement might look like heal on adrenaline unload (or not?) incorporated into Fatal Frenzy. Also while on topic of the berserker, please ArenaNet move Burning Arrows out of the Tactics line, like the lost puppy it is, and put it in the Arms line where it will be appropriately loved and adored. I suggest displacing Ususpecting Foe to have Burning Arrows compete with Deep Strike and Blademaster. Then watch berserker archery immolate all the things.

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Posted by: Sir Mad.1092

Sir Mad.1092

Thief is always dead, no heals, no real condi cleaning. Does not matter how much their damage is boosted, if enemy is not dead after first second, thief will die.

Funny how my thief is generally the last player alive…

Hints:

- Use marauder armor, not berserker
- Learn to dodge
- In long fights against threatening enemies, use passive heals based on your damage (spec Critical Strikes for instance)

As for the condition removal, DD can cure movement impairing conditions in a blink of a eye, and Hide in Shadows can cure the top 3 damaging conditions (burning, bleeding, and poison). And if that’s not enough Signet of Agility can cure one more.

If you’re looking for monk-style healing, yes, thieves suck. But if we’re talking about survivability, they’re amazing. If you’re skilled enough to play them that is (don’t take that personally, I’m just saying it’s not a class for everybody).

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Posted by: emikochan.8504

emikochan.8504

ITT people that can’t play thief saying thief sustain is bad.

Welcome to my world – http://emikochan13.wordpress.com

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Posted by: DGraves.3720

DGraves.3720

Well this turned out interesting.

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Posted by: TexZero.7910

TexZero.7910

ITT people that can’t play thief saying thief sustain is bad.

If you want to look at it objectively, thief has to put more into their sustain than any other class.

Meaning their sustain by comparison is bad.

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Posted by: FogLeg.9354

FogLeg.9354

Thief is always dead, no heals, no real condi cleaning. Does not matter how much their damage is boosted, if enemy is not dead after first second, thief will die.

Funny how my thief is generally the last player alive…

Hints:

- Use marauder armor, not berserker
- Learn to dodge
- In long fights against threatening enemies, use passive heals based on your damage (spec Critical Strikes for instance)

As for the condition removal, DD can cure movement impairing conditions in a blink of a eye, and Hide in Shadows can cure the top 3 damaging conditions (burning, bleeding, and poison). And if that’s not enough Signet of Agility can cure one more.

If you’re looking for monk-style healing, yes, thieves suck. But if we’re talking about survivability, they’re amazing. If you’re skilled enough to play them that is (don’t take that personally, I’m just saying it’s not a class for everybody).

I should point out that I only play WvW and do guild raids there. No thief will survive the group fight there. I imagine you are talking about some other game mode, and I am not going to argue about those since I have no intereset on those.

Even then, try to look things at slightly wider point for a second. The general question about heal/sustain does not mean there is not single very specific build with very specific items/equipment that could survive for little longer compared to some other class. It is about how difficult it is on average on any class with average builds and cheap items. Consider all the possible builds, in many different game modes. It may require you to play perhaps more then one class for some time, but its worth the effort when making these claims.

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Posted by: Sir Mad.1092

Sir Mad.1092

It’s not one specific build: thieves have several ways to achieve that. However, indeed, going all offence (no passive heals, full zerk, static gameplay) won’t work in the harder fights. Just blame metabattle for pushing thieves into that direction (which inevitably ends up in the same people saying thieves suck).

I do agree with you when it comes to WvW though, yet they’re great at roaming. It’s indeed a shame they can hardly play a role in zergs, but I think the way the game is designed is more to blame than thieves themselves. But of course, that’s another debate.

WvW was the thing I was the most excited about when I joined the game, and I thought I could play a thief in WvW as I used to play my Witch Hunter in W:AR (high risks, high rewards: sneak behind the enemy lines, quickly assassinate a mage or a healer, and run back before someone with an heavier armor notices your presence) – that was a big disappointment.

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Posted by: Agemnon.4608

Agemnon.4608

I have to disagree on thief. Sure there’s no real group healing but there’s great self-healing in PvE if you have some healing power on some of your gear. I have two zealot and one crusader piece all ascended the rest is marauder. There’s a trait in critical strikes that grants healing on crit while you have enough healing power to almost reset a healthpool if things go wrong. You can also take your “autoattack” off auto so you can stop, anticipate a big move, then vault or sword 3 it depending on your weaponset. If you’re in the middle of staff 1’s twirly vulnerability phase you can’t vault out of it, same with the last of sword’s auto third strike) and it’s satisfying dodging those attacks in that manner:

I normally have roll for initiative or signet of shadows (for exploration only) but scorpion wire is good for isolating targets for a short time especially menders who chain heal each other and pulling thrashers out of their lifesteal fields.

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Posted by: Wanderer.3248

Wanderer.3248

Warrior still terrible sustain.

Shout builds have some of the best sustain in the game.

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Posted by: reikken.4961

reikken.4961

lol at people who don’t know how to thief

Thief has a LOT of sustain in PvE
15% lifesteal is huge
build straight glass cannon, do 10k dps, and heal for 1500 per second, without even using any healing skills.

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Posted by: reikken.4961

reikken.4961

Shout builds have some of the best sustain in the game.

that was a while ago
The heal has since been cut in half

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Posted by: NiloyBardhan.9170

NiloyBardhan.9170

Warrior still terrible sustain.

Shout builds have some of the best sustain in the game.

Someone hasn’t played after 23rd June last year…

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Posted by: FogLeg.9354

FogLeg.9354

Remembered this thread when a thief jumped on my Reaper during our last WvW raid. I was gathering some stuff and group moved a bit forward so I was running on my own not really looking around or anything. So suddenly I get enemy Thief on me (I looked up from battle log later, was using Backstab), hits me few times and I start to get annoyed a bit. Eventually I stop running and start to hit him back, he starts to run away, at that point, while I still had 80% of HP left, I went to reaper shroud and mowed him down.

Our frontline Reaper build is obviously tanky and all that. But still. Thief did 1k damage on the best attack, I did 4k per attack. And no, I am not some sort of super-player with reflexes like lighting and mind as sharp as new knife. I am old and slow and sometimes already sleepy at those evening raids.

Anyway, I remembered this again when enemy group of 20+ did surprise push out from the tower we were passing by and I had to fight through all of them on my Reaper back to our main group. Even my raid leader said he looked at me and I was completely covered by angry red enemy names, already down to 20% HP and considered me dead before fight even properly started. And yet, I did not die. I did not even go down, I admit I had only few % HP letf at some point but I still recovered.

So yea, if you want to survive, play Necro/Reaper or Guardian/DH or Ele/Tempest, these are all great. Scrapper and Druid, also good. Now I have doubts about Warrior, Mesmer and Revenant, not that they are useless but they all somewhat situational, good at some fights, struggling in others. And then is Thief, don’t play it, just don’t (in WvW, specially in group fight).