Guild Wars 2

^ Just as the title says, personally, I’m neutral about it. I’m just curious what people think when they see the ads on LFG is all. =)

Meh, if that is what they want to do and people want to pay them to do it, why should I care.

Probably the same as they think about me….not at all generally.

They sell dungeons. I don’t pay in game resources for others to play a game that I paid real world money for me.

I neither patronize nor care about them doing it. If that’s what they want to do and the developer does not object, why should I?

not custom to them.

I don’t think that is what dungeon should be because I’m custom to not see dungeon selling in other mmorpg.

Just like I dont’ understand why ranger shouldn’t use bow in dungeon, because every ranger/hunter use bow in other mmorpg.

But after a few years in GW2, I kind of get used to it. That being said, if 5 man dungeon actually require 5 people for it, there might be less dungeon selling. I presume that might be a reason why there isn’t as much dungeon selling in other game.

It is a service people are willing to pay for. They don’t block you from doing the same or forming your own group. People who buy dungeons aren’t the same who do dungeons, they are generally PvPers or people with to much money on their hands and not enough time.

I still don’t understand why would anyone pay to dungeon when you can find a party for free

Nevermore.5487:

I still don’t understand why would anyone pay to dungeon when you can find a party for free

They can actaully do the dungeon. Or farm more money else where and buy the dungeon.

A bad pug for arah could take forever for many people. Or they can farm SW or maize blam and make much more money faster. Or even credit card or in game gambling.

Although i do not mind ppl selling dungeons per se (and would advocate against a ban), i really hate the fact that i cant filter the lfg to exclude them, as im not interested in buying any paths. It is annoying that they share the same space with “legitimate” parties.

I loath those who are only willing to help others for coin. We are suppose to be aspiring heroes, not sell swords.

Doesn’t help their cause when more than a few bad apples take the money and “accidentally” kick the buyer or quit themselves. Oops.

They provide a service and quite fairly ask recompense for their time and effort.

Personally, i’ve never taken advantage of them but the prices are typically cheap enough that if there was something i actually needed for Arah tokens i’d seriously contemplate paying for a quick finish rather than enduring the multi-hour fiasco it so often becomes.

laokoko.7403:

Nevermore.5487:

I still don’t understand why would anyone pay to dungeon when you can find a party for free

They can actaully do the dungeon. Or farm more money else where and buy the dungeon.

A bad pug for arah could take forever for many people. Or they can farm SW or maize blam and make much more money faster. Or even credit card or in game gambling.

Or they can access (read: loot) gated content like high lvl fractals.

They provide a service that people are willing to pay for. I personally don’t buy them but if other people want to, why not?

1) People always try and sell this rubbish in open world. I use open world all the time, and I’d rather not have this nonsense plastered at the top whenever I look at it.

2) Dungeons are meant to be group content, stuff you actually work towards… Rewards lose all meaning if any fool with 5 gold can just come along and purchase them.

Why not just sell it for gold directly from the dungeon merchant? Because its almost the same thing. These rewards were meant to take effort, not to just be bought.

Amenaza.8346:

Although i do not mind ppl selling dungeons per se (and would advocate against a ban), i really hate the fact that i cant filter the lfg to exclude them, as im not interested in buying any paths. It is annoying that they share the same space with “legitimate” parties.

The only problem with that is anything that would do that would give some players the assumption that ANet would reimburse them if they got scammed and that ANet fully supports dungeon selling. ANet neither supports nor prohibits dungeon selling. They do prohibit scamming, so while if you have proof that a scam took place, they won’t replace your gold but they will punish the scammer.

Seera.5916:

Amenaza.8346:

Although i do not mind ppl selling dungeons per se (and would advocate against a ban), i really hate the fact that i cant filter the lfg to exclude them, as im not interested in buying any paths. It is annoying that they share the same space with “legitimate” parties.

The only problem with that is anything that would do that would give some players the assumption that ANet would reimburse them if they got scammed and that ANet fully supports dungeon selling. ANet neither supports nor prohibits dungeon selling. They do prohibit scamming, so while if you have proof that a scam took place, they won’t replace your gold but they will punish the scammer.

I know that and i would not ask for a specific sell filter. Just a text field where you can exclude one or multiple strings, like the google “-” command. I could hide the sellers, others could hide “meta” and grinders could hide “story” or unwanted paths. A simple, easy to implement feature that would greatly improve the usability of the lfg tool with no downside i could imagine at the moment.

Hi,
I sell/sold a few times some arah paths. We played the path the normaly way but with 3-4 players. Ones we are in front of the last boss we sell the open slots.

Why?

My friends and i dont like the meta stuff, IF we fill our group then our LFG says “nice people only!”
So with these lfgs we end often enough up with a teachrun, telling some dude with low AP and/or a ranger/necro how to do this path, cause he allways got kicked elsewhere…

But sometimes we dont wanne teach some random dude…sometimes we wanne do the dungeon in our way, as fast as we can…and thats when we sell the spots…

I think it is nothing bad

I don’t like it. Not because its a bad thing in itsself, but because its so gray.

If one guy is really good and can solo arah he might as well get rewarded for his efforts by selling the slots. There are people who don’t enjoy running dungeons and for them this is a nice option as well. So far nice and dandy.

But there is almost no way to determine ( on some occasions its possible) how the run was done. It could have been one expoit after the other and just getting there by basicly hacking through the stage and having the guts to sell that is pretty low.
Same goes for people who kick others from the party to sell the remaining slot, or people who join and then kick the seller so save the fee.

I think a practice where screwing people over and getting screwed over is normal isn’t a good thing.

Pride.1734:

But there is almost no way to determine ( on some occasions its possible) how the run was done. It could have been one expoit after the other and just getting there by basicly hacking through the stage and having the guts to sell that is pretty low.
Same goes for people who kick others from the party to sell the remaining slot, or people who join and then kick the seller so save the fee.

the first two are certainly reportable offenses, and the last probably as well. though if someone joins your sell run and then refuses to pay, ANet will not do anything about it, as it’s a ’gentleman’s agreement’.

Its a bad it devalue all dungeon achievements…

Nevermore.5487:

I still don’t understand why would anyone pay to dungeon when you can find a party for free

Due to the difficulty of assembling a group that wants to do Arah explorable, I ultimately resorted to buying the paths. Otherwise, I would simply want to do them myself.

Don’t really care. Though I think people who buy dungeon paths are idiots. And people who buy fractals are even bigger idiots. 20 gold for level 50 fractals so you can get 36 empyreal fragments and 1.5 gold back? Maybe if you’re lucky you’ll get an ascended ring.

Killface.1896:

Its a bad it devalue all dungeon achievements…

pvp devalued dungeoneer.

Perfectly fine with it.

I don’t really care that much, but I do wish I could see more advertisements of people actually wanting to play the dungeon.

I dislike the fact that it’s a thing. Dungeon selling is the reason I refuse to PUG The Ruined City of Arah paths with anything less than two personal friends.

I once had a group of three people join and kick me right before the final boss, then list it on the LFG as a path sell.

If you really really wanna, whatever. But if things go south, you’re SOL. Don’t come crying to us about it.

Eponet.4829:

I dislike the fact that it’s a thing. Dungeon selling is the reason I refuse to PUG The Ruined City of Arah paths with anything less than two personal friends.

I once had a group of three people join and kick me right before the final boss, then list it on the LFG as a path sell.

This, I sympathize. That’s a real jerkass move right there. Dungeon sellers don’t lend themselves to a very good reputation with stories like this.

I think of them along the same lines as people who sell levels in some games.

I think you really can’t blame the people who sell the dungeon run, either. As if there wasn’t a market, it probably wouldn’t be done.

But I think it’s kindof sad in a way, too, because in my opinion, dungeons are supposed to be about meeting new people and having fun.

If it is what you like then feel free to do so. People seem to want to buy those paths, so why not.

Even though, I am always amused whenever people ask ArenaNet to monitor this gray market. As in punish those who scam the buyers OR the sellers.

Behellagh.1468:

I loath those who are only willing to help others for coin. We are suppose to be aspiring heroes, not sell swords.

Doesn’t help their cause when more than a few bad apples take the money and “accidentally” kick the buyer or quit themselves. Oops.

Help? Why do you expect people “help” someone who is too lazy to do the path himself.

not my business what people do in game.

I don’t care. They sometimes clutter the lfg tool with their ads, and that’s a nuisance, but apart from that neither sellers nor buyers affect my gameplay, so they are free to do what they please. I don’t understand why anyone wants to buy dungeons, though, but there seems to be demand, otherwise there would not be any sellers.

I am absolutely against dungeon selling though it is only fair to say that my opinion is heavily biased as a result of my last MMO which became so infested with “dungeon” selling that it nearly killed the game itself. The ripple effects on the community as a whole were devastating. I don’t see dungeon selling becoming nearly as problematic for GW2 as my previous MMO but anyone that says selling dungeons (or the equivalent) is “fine” has no idea what they are talking about ….or perhaps they just don’t care about the detrimental impact it has on fostering an active, engaged, knowledgeable, supportive, and experienced player base that will enjoy and continue playing the game.

Absolutely fine with it as long as no one was kicked to make room for more customers.

I don’t care really.

I do think it’s funny when they complain about patches impacting their “business” as if the developers actually design content with a single though given to how easy it will be to sell runs.

If Anet doesn’t care, then I don’t care.

I’m neutral. Only ever used that service once, for Arah P4, in order to complete the ‘Dungeon Master’ title. It’s better to have this as an option than not, imo.

I’m neutral, overall.

I think it’s a dangerous business and I worry that they’re going about their ways deviously. E.g. a guild team might invite a pug or two for a dungeon and then kick at the end boss and then sell to other people, exploiting the time and effort of the randomers. The other worry is that they’ll take your coin and kick you without you getting your end of the deal. But you can’t judge a whole group from the bad minority.

If they are doing it legitimately (without exploiting the game or other players) I have absolutely no problem with it. They are offering a useful service for people who don’t have the time or inclination to run those particular paths for the achievements and/or tokens.

I guess it could be seen as cheapening the Dungeon Master achi a little- you could have the title but not actually have “earned it” yourself. But it’s a player’s choice overall. I bought the Arah EXP paths because I didn’t fancy running them- not after hearing horror stories about people spending a number of hours just doing 1 path.

And finally, if the group is soloing/duoing the dungeon, that takes some awesome skill in many instances, so I wouldn’t mind “rewarding” them for their achievements.

i love them. it’s an easy way for me to turn cash into tokens and finish my dungeon collections.

Behellagh.1468:

I loath those who are only willing to help others for coin. We are suppose to be aspiring heroes, not sell swords.

Doesn’t help their cause when more than a few bad apples take the money and “accidentally” kick the buyer or quit themselves. Oops.

Yeah I agree, I loath those people at the grocery store who make me PAY to get food. It’s ridiculous! And of course there will always be some jerks who kick you after you payed and not return the money. But I think those guys are few.

EDIT @ atherian: ’

1) People always try and sell this rubbish in open world. I use open world all the time, and I’d rather not have this nonsense plastered at the top whenever I look at it.

2) Dungeons are meant to be group content, stuff you actually work towards… Rewards lose all meaning if any fool with 5 gold can just come along and purchase them.

Why not just sell it for gold directly from the dungeon merchant? Because its almost the same thing. These rewards were meant to take effort, not to just be bought."

Those people who sell it under open world probably did it by accident. And as for dungeon selling destroying the value of the rewards, look at the pvp reward tracks.

@Eponet:

’

I dislike the fact that it’s a thing. Dungeon selling is the reason I refuse to PUG The Ruined City of Arah paths with anything less than two personal friends.

I once had a group of three people join and kick me right before the final boss, then list it on the LFG as a path sell."

Even if it wasn’t possible to sell dungeons you would still have jerks who kick you out to give it to friends.

@Silvatar:

“I am absolutely against dungeon selling though it is only fair to say that my opinion is heavily biased as a result of my last MMO which became so infested with “dungeon” selling that it nearly killed the game itself. The ripple effects on the community as a whole were devastating. I don’t see dungeon selling becoming nearly as problematic for GW2 as my previous MMO but anyone that says selling dungeons (or the equivalent) is “fine” has no idea what they are talking about ….or perhaps they just don’t care about the detrimental impact it has on fostering an active, engaged, knowledgeable, supportive, and experienced player base that will enjoy and continue playing the game.”

Would you mind explaining what’s so bad about it? What harm you think it does and why? You talk about the detrimental impact it has on fostering an active, engaged, knowledgeable, supportive, and experienced player base, and yet fail to explain why you think dungeon selling does that.

I can get a full suite of dungeon armor in 2 days of doing pvp tracks. Do this instead of paying someone.

I’m cool with the following:

Someone starts their own group and advertises they are selling the path from the get go.

I’m not cool with the following:

Three members of the same guild (previously 2) join a group that’s running a dungeon, stay with the group until final boss, then kick the other two members and post on LFG to sell the path. <— which I believe is bannable these days? Not sure.

I don’t like it, but I guess I don’t really have anything against the people themselves (unless they’re abusive/exploiting jerks).

I really dislike it because it shows a very serious problem with the game, and it’s being brushed over. This is a game, it’s supposed to be fun to play. If you’ll pay someone else to avoid having to play it, then there is something VERY wrong going on. The devs need to look at the areas where this happens, and make changes to address the real problem. Yes, that would put most dungeon sellers out of business, but that’s not a bad thing if everyone’s having more fun.

What would I change?

• Make solo versions of all story paths, so solo players can get the story and independently unlock the PvP reward tracks.

• Implement better drops for the “trash” or frequently skipped encounters in the explorable paths, so there’s good reason to take them on.

• Add in a difficulty adjuster for the explorable tracks. The simplest would be adjusting the player’s level downwards while leaving the dungeon itself at the same level. A timer (with several choices) and maybe a “maximum deaths” counter would be good, too. There should be some bonus (but not exclusive) rewards for beating the timer/counter as well as surviving with lowered levels.

• Give WvW players the option to buy the PvP reward track potions with WvW currency. (Easiest way I can see to give them access to the dungeon rewards, unlocked the same way PvP players do it.)

• If the player has cleared a story mode, let them exchange Laurels for the tokens from that dungeon.

Personally I have no interest in it. I think as long as the person selling them provides the service that was paid for in good faith I am ok with it.

I think it’s great.

I paid to go from Fractal 43 to 50 and got the Fractal Trident which I’ve been wanting forever and an ascended light legging in the process.

I just don’t have the time to run fractals anymore and wanted to get back up to 50 before HoT – after being at 59 before Fractalized or whatever it was.

I’m very impressed with the fractal 50 sellers – they are highly efficient and conduct themselves like professionals. If I had the time, I’d probably try to get in on it.

Perfectly reasonable for people to sell Dungeon paths, takes some effort and skill on their part and clearly there is a market for it.

I like it, I have done it on occassion, but not as a mainstay. It takes the average player a half-hour to an hour with a decent group to get thru most arah paths… you can currently farm 10-12 gold an hour in sw/maize/etc… most those paths sell for between 3-10 gold a run, saving time for those that either dont have alot of it, or dont want to spend hours doing it so that they can get tokens for an item they are looking to buy. I see nothing wrong with it as long as its done legitimately and is ok with the game admins.

I don’t think “because there’s a market” is a valid argument for it. It takes effort, skill, and a market for the sex trade too, but anyone who hasn’t completely deadened their conscience would say it’s immoral and a misuse of one’s effort and skill.

Torenn.2598:

I don’t think “because there’s a market” is a valid argument for it. It takes effort, skill, and a market for the sex trade too, but anyone who hasn’t completely deadened their conscience would say it’s immoral and a misuse of one’s effort and skill.

There is nothing wrong with working in the sex trade, your stance on morality is irrelevant.

Coulter.2315:

There is nothing wrong with working in the sex trade, your stance on morality is irrelevant.

Actually, there is. Morality is objective, not subjective. The use of our natural reason tells us this, and proves moral relativism to be an absurdity. My statement was relevant in that the claim that dungeon selling is okay is not proven by the existence of a market for it. Stay on topic, please.

Torenn.2598:

Coulter.2315:

There is nothing wrong with working in the sex trade, your stance on morality is irrelevant.

Actually, there is. Morality is objective, not subjective. The use of our natural reason tells us this, and proves moral relativism to be an absurdity. My statement was relevant in that the claim that dungeon selling is okay is not proven by the existence of a market for it.

“Morality is objective” – looks like we found god – please can you write down all the correct moral stances in a list so we can just pass it to the House of Commons and update some perfect laws.

Thanks!