Guild Wars 2

Forum bug please deletes.

Can we get some perspective here?

There are two kinds of laws: “Mala in se” and “Mala prohibitum”

There is nothing inherently wrong with selling a dungeon path in the way there is something wrong with murder and robbery.

If it’s wrong, then it’s wrong because the dev team says it’s wrong and by extension, it somehow undermines or conflicts with their vision of how the game should be played.

They have not come out and banned the practice and nobody has made a compelling argument as to why consenting players cannot voluntarily exchange their in-game time and resources.

A lot of people don’t like it because they have a very personal set of rules that assign meaning to various activities. That’s fine too, but it’s healthy when we can recognize that our ideals are personal and not global.

There are people who think we shouldn’t have gun stores or pet stores or sports cars or sugary beverages but we still have all of these because people very different ideas about risk, utility and freedom.

I believe that, in general, it’s best to default in favor of freedom.

I wouldn’t sell or buy a dungeon path, but I don’t mind that it’s a thing.

I do think kicking someone so you can sell their slot is utterly despicable. Anyone who does that should have their account banned permanently.

I don’t like it, and believe Anet shouldn’t have allowed it, but since they have I live with it. I would like to see it get its own slot or an option to filter it out in the LFG tool. That seems like the right way to go in its current state. The people involved in it on both sides would still have access and those of us who find it distasteful wouldn’t have to see it every time we opened the LFG tool.

so tell me… how is laboring in the field to pick produce for an hour to sell it to someone who doesnt want to labor themselves in that field… any different principally or morally from someone laboring in a dungeon for an hour to sell a spot to someone who doesnt want to labor themselves in that dungeon?

discuss…

They sell a service and obviously people are willing to pay for it.

If anet revamp the LFG system, maybe they could provide some sort of tab for such things, just so the LFGs from seller don’t block the view on normal group requests. Then again, the LFG system needs a big revamp anyway, so that is not one of my primary concerns.

shrugs I don’t really care. I see the adverts but it isn’t such an overwhelming amount that it would bother me. but hey if they are doing the work and people are willing to pay to not do the work then why fault them?

I don’t like dungeon selling as a resource exchange system.
If players are insterested in some content specific reward, I think they should try to beat and maybe eventually master that content.

On the other hand, I also dislike having a reward system that ignores if some content has been under-manned and rewards those who have beaten a greater challenge with the short end of the stick.
In this sense, I see dungein selling as a necessary evil.

Ive bought a few arah runs before to finish a bifrost and never had problems, but I dont know, it just seems to give pve in this game such an asian gold farmerish feel, especially when you look in lfg and 9/10 listings are for people selling paths, plus it must be a huge turnoff for new players (and I know, make your own group if you dont want to buy one, and it doesnt hurt anyone, and play how you want, blah blah blah)

Im not calling for it to be banned, got nothing against the people who do it, but itd be great if there was a new lfg portion just for selling paths.

Absolute apathy. Most are probably a scam anyway.

I find Dungeon Sellers to be a god send in disguise as often as not. Currently I’d very much like to get some Arah Tokens, but I don’t play the proper hours to do with my friends that often. So, instead I can pay one of these people and I get my tokens. I’ve never been cheated on it and it takes quite a bit of skill on their part.

Fair deal for a fair trade.

Also, it’s usually not just one seller. Especially on longer paths. I have been on a few paths where we were going super fast through when suddenly our Thief D/cs. We can’t find another so we say, “Alright, we’ll sell this one and split it four ways.”

Palador.2170:

I don’t like it, but I guess I don’t really have anything against the people themselves (unless they’re abusive/exploiting jerks).

I really dislike it because it shows a very serious problem with the game, and it’s being brushed over. This is a game, it’s supposed to be fun to play. If you’ll pay someone else to avoid having to play it, then there is something VERY wrong going on. The devs need to look at the areas where this happens, and make changes to address the real problem. Yes, that would put most dungeon sellers out of business, but that’s not a bad thing if everyone’s having more fun.

What would I change?

• Make solo versions of all story paths, so solo players can get the story and independently unlock the PvP reward tracks.

• Implement better drops for the “trash” or frequently skipped encounters in the explorable paths, so there’s good reason to take them on.

• Add in a difficulty adjuster for the explorable tracks. The simplest would be adjusting the player’s level downwards while leaving the dungeon itself at the same level. A timer (with several choices) and maybe a “maximum deaths” counter would be good, too. There should be some bonus (but not exclusive) rewards for beating the timer/counter as well as surviving with lowered levels.

• Give WvW players the option to buy the PvP reward track potions with WvW currency. (Easiest way I can see to give them access to the dungeon rewards, unlocked the same way PvP players do it.)

• If the player has cleared a story mode, let them exchange Laurels for the tokens from that dungeon.

I like all these ideas. have a +1

Vargamonth.2047:

I don’t like dungeon selling as a resource exchange system.
If players are insterested in some content specific reward, I think they should try to beat and maybe eventually master that content.

On the other hand, I also dislike having a reward system that ignores if some content has been under-manned and rewards those who have beaten a greater challenge with the short end of the stick.
In this sense, I see dungein selling as a necessary evil.

I see it as a symptom of, ironically enough, content being well developed and balanced. Content in this game requires skill, or strategy, rather than gear. In WoW, the most important thing is to meet the minimum requirements – once you can outheal the damage the mobs do, the content is trivial.
The same could be said here, except for the actually difficult content that simply isn’t plausible. Instead, you must avoid the more devastating damage (skill) and find a way to unload the most damage on the boss before it has the chance to overwhelm you (strategy).

To avoid it being simply a numbers game, where geared players can simply ignore and push through the damage, the damage needs to be set quite high, which in turn ups the skill factor required – if you mistime so much as a single dodge, you’re down, and quite probably out.

The result of these things taken together is that to inexperienced players, the content is so punishing as to not be worth doing, while for the highly experienced/skilled players, the content is easy (if not trivial) to the point that they can afford to drop one or two members and bring along a carry for (extra) profit.

Narrrz.7532:

Palador.2170:

I don’t like it, but I guess I don’t really have anything against the people themselves (unless they’re abusive/exploiting jerks).

I really dislike it because it shows a very serious problem with the game, and it’s being brushed over. This is a game, it’s supposed to be fun to play. If you’ll pay someone else to avoid having to play it, then there is something VERY wrong going on. The devs need to look at the areas where this happens, and make changes to address the real problem. Yes, that would put most dungeon sellers out of business, but that’s not a bad thing if everyone’s having more fun.

What would I change?

• Make solo versions of all story paths, so solo players can get the story and independently unlock the PvP reward tracks.

• Implement better drops for the “trash” or frequently skipped encounters in the explorable paths, so there’s good reason to take them on.

• Add in a difficulty adjuster for the explorable tracks. The simplest would be adjusting the player’s level downwards while leaving the dungeon itself at the same level. A timer (with several choices) and maybe a “maximum deaths” counter would be good, too. There should be some bonus (but not exclusive) rewards for beating the timer/counter as well as surviving with lowered levels.

• Give WvW players the option to buy the PvP reward track potions with WvW currency. (Easiest way I can see to give them access to the dungeon rewards, unlocked the same way PvP players do it.)

• If the player has cleared a story mode, let them exchange Laurels for the tokens from that dungeon.

I like all these ideas. have a +1

you cant do away with the dungeon sellers unless you threaten to ban people for offering the service. but as it has been said, guild sellers would not be around if it there wasnt a market for it. and ok you are complaining about people not working to get things in the game? so should we ban all the whales who are decked in legendaries because they bought gems with cash. So where do you draw the line? how do you gauge what is right and what isn’t? you can’t expect to force people to have fun with the game in the way that you do. I myself would never pay for a dungeon and I don’t see why people would, but saying that it shouldn’t be allowed in the game is folly. When you have a mass market game like GW2 you will attract ALL segments of the gaming population. That is the way of the world.

I have no view about this , but its interesting to contrast the comparison that Dungeon Sellers are players selling a service to other players for Gold and thats allowed, but Gold Sellers who are doing the same thing (selling a service to other players) arnt allowed.

Torenn.2598:

Coulter.2315:

There is nothing wrong with working in the sex trade, your stance on morality is irrelevant.

Actually, there is. Morality is objective, not subjective. The use of our natural reason tells us this, and proves moral relativism to be an absurdity. My statement was relevant in that the claim that dungeon selling is okay is not proven by the existence of a market for it. Stay on topic, please.

Morality is, indeed, subjective. If morality were objective, I sincerely doubt there would be as much debate about it.

In this game, it’s already been established by the company, that selling spots in dungeon runs is not against the rules.

You may or may not think the selling of these spots is appropriate, but you are not required to participate. It harms you in no way, for others to profit from their own skill.

mauried.5608:

I have no view about this , but its interesting to contrast the comparison that Dungeon Sellers are players selling a service to other players for Gold and thats allowed, but Gold Sellers who are doing the same thing (selling a service to other players) arnt allowed.

That’s because players selling a service, performed in-game, to other players, in no way affects the economy of the game. It also doesn’t profit from stolen credit cards, stolen accounts, or provide a service for the game that directly competes with the company that owns the game.

Not the same thing at all.

imsoenthused.1634:

I don’t like it, and believe Anet shouldn’t have allowed it, but since they have I live with it. I would like to see it get its own slot or an option to filter it out in the LFG tool. That seems like the right way to go in its current state. The people involved in it on both sides would still have access and those of us who find it distasteful wouldn’t have to see it every time we opened the LFG tool.

A filter sounds like a good idea.

mauried.5608:

I have no view about this , but its interesting to contrast the comparison that Dungeon Sellers are players selling a service to other players for Gold and thats allowed, but Gold Sellers who are doing the same thing (selling a service to other players) arnt allowed.

Gold Sellers do a lot of damaging things to the game and its players to turn real world profits – from hacking accounts to in-game economies. They are very different issues.

Kitty La Boom Boom.4065:

imsoenthused.1634:

I don’t like it, and believe Anet shouldn’t have allowed it, but since they have I live with it. I would like to see it get its own slot or an option to filter it out in the LFG tool. That seems like the right way to go in its current state. The people involved in it on both sides would still have access and those of us who find it distasteful wouldn’t have to see it every time we opened the LFG tool.

A filter sounds like a good idea.

What would you filter? Anything with “sell”, “selling”, “sllng”, “dealing”, “hawking”, “providing”, “exchanging”, “any-new-word-made-up-to-escape-the-filtering.”

It doesn’t seem viable to create a filter for language – people are pretty smart even if they can’t get around kittens.

I think that it is odd that they (Anet) allow dungeon selling in the looking for group, but do not allow home instance node selling or similar practices, all of which feel very gray market.

As long as no one is scamming each other, I don’t see it as a big deal. Though if there was a way to filter LFG with certain words (e.g. filter out words like “sell” or “selling”, so you don’t have to see it if you’re not interested) that might be cool. I’m assuming a feature like that does not already exist, or people wouldn’t be complaining.

The whole thing about it devaluing dungeon gear is kinda nonsense, since a) it’s not tradeable, b) there’s no way to know how somebody got dungeon gear without asking them and c) it’s not like dungeons are super hard in the first place.

Coulter.2315:

What would you filter? Anything with “sell”, “selling”, “sllng”, “dealing”, “hawking”, “providing”, “exchanging”, “any-new-word-made-up-to-escape-the-filtering.”

It doesn’t seem viable to create a filter for language – people are pretty smart even if they can’t get around kittens.

What would be the motivation for people to dodge a filter though? The guys who are selling dungeons want to reach those who will buy, not those who want to shut them down. If it is designed as something that people can choose to filter or not filter for themselves, then those who are interested will use no filter and see it, and those who don’t care to see it will filter obvious words for selling dungeons.

It might just be simple enough to work.

mauried.5608:

I have no view about this , but its interesting to contrast the comparison that Dungeon Sellers are players selling a service to other players for Gold and thats allowed, but Gold Sellers who are doing the same thing (selling a service to other players) arnt allowed.

You should feel ashamed for comparing gold sellers to dungeon sellers (because they litterally have almost nothing in common except for the “seller” part in their naming). For someone with no view, you certainly also put no thought into your argument.

I’m not even going to go into all the details how real world hacking, acount theft, etc. factor into the equation.

Coulter.2315:

Kitty La Boom Boom.4065:

imsoenthused.1634:

I don’t like it, and believe Anet shouldn’t have allowed it, but since they have I live with it. I would like to see it get its own slot or an option to filter it out in the LFG tool. That seems like the right way to go in its current state. The people involved in it on both sides would still have access and those of us who find it distasteful wouldn’t have to see it every time we opened the LFG tool.

A filter sounds like a good idea.

What would you filter? Anything with “sell”, “selling”, “sllng”, “dealing”, “hawking”, “providing”, “exchanging”, “any-new-word-made-up-to-escape-the-filtering.”

It doesn’t seem viable to create a filter for language – people are pretty smart even if they can’t get around kittens.

I mean like a tag filtering system. Of course it would rely on people actually using it. If they don’t tag with [DR*] (dungeon run, or whatever, as an example), then of course it would be seen by everyone, but I think most people in this game would be considerate of others if asked, and it would help them as well, since the target audience could search for it specifically.

it may or may not help, but I’m all for providing more options.

Labjax.2465:

Coulter.2315:

What would you filter? Anything with “sell”, “selling”, “sllng”, “dealing”, “hawking”, “providing”, “exchanging”, “any-new-word-made-up-to-escape-the-filtering.”

It doesn’t seem viable to create a filter for language – people are pretty smart even if they can’t get around kittens.

What would be the motivation for people to dodge a filter though? The guys who are selling dungeons want to reach those who will buy, not those who want to shut them down. If it is designed as something that people can choose to filter or not filter for themselves, then those who are interested will use no filter and see it, and those who don’t care to see it will filter obvious words for selling dungeons.

It might just be simple enough to work.

The best thing anet could do, i think, would be to implement a ‘tag’ system and allow us to filter by tags.

so if you’re selling a path, you tag your LFG with “sell” and players can filter out that tag; or you want to make really certain you never see a sold path, so you search for the tag “nosell” and the only results you get are the ones that have specifically tagged their group as NOT selling.

Anyone attempting to exploit such a system kindof shoots themselves in the foot, as you can quite reasonably join any group tagged ‘nosell’ and expect not to have to pay. Plus, it’s general enough that ANet could implement it without giving the appearance of directly supporting path sellers (which i don’t think they want to do, even as they don’t want to try to outlaw it)

Narrrz.7532:

Labjax.2465:

Coulter.2315:

What would you filter? Anything with “sell”, “selling”, “sllng”, “dealing”, “hawking”, “providing”, “exchanging”, “any-new-word-made-up-to-escape-the-filtering.”

It doesn’t seem viable to create a filter for language – people are pretty smart even if they can’t get around kittens.

What would be the motivation for people to dodge a filter though? The guys who are selling dungeons want to reach those who will buy, not those who want to shut them down. If it is designed as something that people can choose to filter or not filter for themselves, then those who are interested will use no filter and see it, and those who don’t care to see it will filter obvious words for selling dungeons.

It might just be simple enough to work.

The best thing anet could do, i think, would be to implement a ‘tag’ system and allow us to filter by tags.

so if you’re selling a path, you tag your LFG with “sell” and players can filter out that tag; or you want to make really certain you never see a sold path, so you search for the tag “nosell” and the only results you get are the ones that have specifically tagged their group as NOT selling.

Anyone attempting to exploit such a system kindof shoots themselves in the foot, as you can quite reasonably join any group tagged ‘nosell’ and expect not to have to pay. Plus, it’s general enough that ANet could implement it without giving the appearance of directly supporting path sellers (which i don’t think they want to do, even as they don’t want to try to outlaw it)

Yeah, sounds like a good solution to me.

mukage.5970:

you cant do away with the dungeon sellers unless you threaten to ban people for offering the service. but as it has been said, guild sellers would not be around if it there wasnt a market for it. and ok you are complaining about people not working to get things in the game? so should we ban all the whales who are decked in legendaries because they bought gems with cash. So where do you draw the line? how do you gauge what is right and what isn’t? you can’t expect to force people to have fun with the game in the way that you do. I myself would never pay for a dungeon and I don’t see why people would, but saying that it shouldn’t be allowed in the game is folly. When you have a mass market game like GW2 you will attract ALL segments of the gaming population. That is the way of the world.

Where did I or Narrrz say anything about actually trying to do away with them? Yes, I did say that most of them going out of business would be a side effect of the suggestions I made, but that’s just it. It’s a side effect, and only MOST would go out.

The point was to address the problems that lead to people paying others to play the game for them, instead of having fun playing it themselves. And as for the legendary weapons, you’ll notice that ANet is taking a shot at addressing that very same problem with them in HoT. Will it work? Maybe, we’ll have to wait and see.

If tomorrow they put in every change I suggested, you’d still have a few people selling dungeons. There will still be people wanting the title for all the paths, or to see parts of it they don’t see in story mode. Or people straight up trying to exchange gold for tokens, because they don’t want to earn them in the other ways. I didn’t say that was wrong, just that it’s a side effect of a bigger problem.

The dungeon sellers are not the problem. The dungeons are.

Palador.2170:

mukage.5970:

you cant do away with the dungeon sellers unless you threaten to ban people for offering the service. but as it has been said, guild sellers would not be around if it there wasnt a market for it. and ok you are complaining about people not working to get things in the game? so should we ban all the whales who are decked in legendaries because they bought gems with cash. So where do you draw the line? how do you gauge what is right and what isn’t? you can’t expect to force people to have fun with the game in the way that you do. I myself would never pay for a dungeon and I don’t see why people would, but saying that it shouldn’t be allowed in the game is folly. When you have a mass market game like GW2 you will attract ALL segments of the gaming population. That is the way of the world.

Where did I or Narrrz say anything about actually trying to do away with them? Yes, I did say that most of them going out of business would be a side effect of the suggestions I made, but that’s just it. It’s a side effect, and only MOST would go out.

The point was to address the problems that lead to people paying others to play the game for them, instead of having fun playing it themselves. And as for the legendary weapons, you’ll notice that ANet is taking a shot at addressing that very same problem with them in HoT. Will it work? Maybe, we’ll have to wait and see.

If tomorrow they put in every change I suggested, you’d still have a few people selling dungeons. There will still be people wanting the title for all the paths, or to see parts of it they don’t see in story mode. Or people straight up trying to exchange gold for tokens, because they don’t want to earn them in the other ways. I didn’t say that was wrong, just that it’s a side effect of a bigger problem.

The dungeon sellers are not the problem. The dungeons are.

No. They really aren’t, unless you want to create an “Easy Mode”, that’s all but guaranteed to be complete in an hour or less.

Most of the people purchasing Dungeon Runs (correct me if I’m way off base here), have more gold than time…or at least more gold than large chunks of time that can be devoted to doing dungeons to earn the things that they want out of them.

I don’t do dungeons yet. Why? It’s certainly not because I don’t want to.
It’s because I don’t have the time to devote to a team, to give them 100% of my attention, for the length of time it takes to do a dungeon for fun. I have a busy household, and I need to afk at any given moment. That’s not fair to a dungeon party, so I don’t do them. When I’ve got my primary game goals taken care of, then I will likely pay for runs, and have someone teach me to do them, so that when I can get a good group together, we’ll be able to do them, and not worry about putting anyone else out.

How much do run spots go for these days, anyway?

I think they are a blight, kitten on the community. They are nothing short of extortionists, some are even scam artists. Yet as long as people are too lazy to actually play the game they will remain.

Generally……if people themselves can not solo it, and are not skilled enough to do it solo they don’t like it because someone’s making money off something they can’t do.

People here who are super against it, I would bet money 90% of them would be selling it if they were able to solo it. It’s a service people use to make money, and it’s something players obviously do not mind buying as it’s a service they want.

Am I looking at the same LFG tool here? There’s only a handful of entries under most categories. Barely a blight of anything.

For those people who are concerned about the scammers, i.e. the groups that kick players at the end of a dungeon and then sell their slots, maybe Anet could block any slot that has been emptied via “kicking” from being refilled. That way only slots that were left open from the beginning, voluntarily vacated or as the result of a disconnect can be filled.

Wolf Rayet.4073:

For those people who are concerned about the scammers, i.e. the groups that kick players at the end of a dungeon and then sell their slots, maybe Anet could block any slot that has been emptied via “kicking” from being refilled. That way only slots that were left open from the begging, voluntarily vacated or as the result of a disconnect can be filled.

Then what do you do about afkers?

Hard to tell if they’re legit sometimes; I’d rather if they let you run the path and then pay them afterwards

Kitty La Boom Boom.4065:

No. They really aren’t, unless you want to create an “Easy Mode”, that’s all but guaranteed to be complete in an hour or less.

For story mode (and story mode only), yes. Running it would still open up the PvP reward tracks, as it does now, giving a second option to people wanting the rewards from the dungeon paths.

As long they don’t kick a pug to sell the spot, I’m ok with it.

But I always make sure to report anyone selling Legendaries/Precursors on LFG.

Its a good way to make money.Especially for someone who doesnt have a lot of things to do in game.

Narrrz.7532:

Wolf Rayet.4073:

For those people who are concerned about the scammers, i.e. the groups that kick players at the end of a dungeon and then sell their slots, maybe Anet could block any slot that has been emptied via “kicking” from being refilled. That way only slots that were left open from the begging, voluntarily vacated or as the result of a disconnect can be filled.

Then what do you do about afkers?

Maybe they can “voluntarily” leave the party after a certain amount of time has elapsed?

I think its sad that people actually pay for these runs…. but then again that’s none of my business.

Lets not forget that more people selling the dungeon means less people for you to actually group up and run it with. Arah was already difficult to get, this made it worse if you actually want to do it the intended way… The PvP track is not an excuse for it to be acceptable either, by the way, as that still a huge time and effort investment.

Wolf Rayet.4073:

Narrrz.7532:

Wolf Rayet.4073:

For those people who are concerned about the scammers, i.e. the groups that kick players at the end of a dungeon and then sell their slots, maybe Anet could block any slot that has been emptied via “kicking” from being refilled. That way only slots that were left open from the begging, voluntarily vacated or as the result of a disconnect can be filled.

Then what do you do about afkers?

Maybe they can “voluntarily” leave the party after a certain amount of time has elapsed?

So they could just shuffle from time to time and afk while rest is working their socks off? Kicking is necessary in party management and so is the ability to find someone willing and competent to fill up the party with.

Vargamonth.2047:

On the other hand, I also dislike having a reward system that ignores if some content has been under-manned and rewards those who have beaten a greater challenge with the short end of the stick.
In this sense, I see dungein selling as a necessary evil.

This actually bothers me more than having to mentally filter sellers from other parties in lfg. Sometimes we can’t get a 5th if it’s too late so we 4 man the dungeon/fract but still get the same reward. On other hand, if the reward would scale with the number of people, we’d see a lot of kicking before final boss just to scale up rewards. So perhaps instead of reward scaling, they could scale the difficulty.

And/or have reward scaling applicable only at the start of the path, ie, enter with 3, scaled to 3 people and more can’t enter after that.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Vargamonth.2047:

On the other hand, I also dislike having a reward system that ignores if some content has been under-manned and rewards those who have beaten a greater challenge with the short end of the stick.
In this sense, I see dungein selling as a necessary evil.

This actually bothers me more than having to mentally filter sellers from other parties in lfg. Sometimes we can’t get a 5th if it’s too late so we 4 man the dungeon/fract but still get the same reward. On other hand, if the reward would scale with the number of people, we’d see a lot of kicking before final boss just to scale up rewards. So perhaps instead of reward scaling, they could scale the difficulty.

And/or have reward scaling applicable only at the start of the path, ie, enter with 3, scaled to 3 people and more can’t enter after that.

If the increased reward would be granted based on the amount of players at the end of the instance, then yes, we would see a lot of kicking and thus it would be a terrible design mistake.
It shouldn’t be hard, however, to scale the reward based on the highest amount of players at any point during the instance. With this system, kicking would not make any sense, not more than on the current one at least.

My problem with scaling is that it would still keep the content at the same difficulty level.
I can see it as a great feature for story paths, but for high replayability content I would absolutely prefer a way to tune up the challenge without having to give up rewards or rely on the always controversial path selling as the only solution.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

So they could just shuffle from time to time and afk while rest is working their socks off? Kicking is necessary in party management and so is the ability to find someone willing and competent to fill up the party with.

I don’t dungeon very often. Are there a lot of players that troll dungeon groups like this? Seems to me they’d develop a reputation rather quickly and get on people’s kitten lists.

Wolf Rayet.4073:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

So they could just shuffle from time to time and afk while rest is working their socks off? Kicking is necessary in party management and so is the ability to find someone willing and competent to fill up the party with.

I don’t dungeon very often. Are there a lot of players that troll dungeon groups like this? Seems to me they’d develop a reputation rather quickly and get on people’s kitten lists.

I think you underestimate just how many players are out there. And there are always opportunists who will exploit a system for personal gain.

Dungeon sellers are awesome, best in gw2. Noone really wants todo such long boring dungeon ways like arah, it’s nice to just buy them! (to get tokens for dungeon master )

Narrrz.7532:

I think you underestimate just how many players are out there. And there are always opportunists who will exploit a system for personal gain.

Yeah, but what are people who intentionally go afk gaining by trolling a dungeon group and getting kicked? I mean, what are they gaining besides satisfying their base urge to troll? And how many times can a player get away with that before others catch on to their troll-like ways?

Nothing wrong, except when it means players are maliciously kicked at the end of a run to cash in, which would be bullying them and wasting their time.

Ignore the sellers if that’s something you wouldn’t do yourself, for whatever valid reasons. If there wouldn’t be a market for these paid runs, they wouldn’t do it. Doing it properly, I see no wrongdoing in the practice, even though I would not do it myself (would probably offer it for free, but for some it’s just another way to make extra income in the game.)

Simply put.. the seller/buyer are not the problem, they for the most part are providing or buying a service that ANET have come out and supported in so much as they allow it.
If you get unfairly kicked or scammed then that’s the risk your taking and ANET all of a sudden wash their hands of the issue.

So its not really about what players feel about other selling the spots it should be about ANETs double standard approach to the use of the LFG for selling anything.
If its not ok to sell portals, home instances, buy/sell items then it should not be ok to sell achievements or dungeon spots.
It makes a mockery of having a design team develop content that requires players to be challenged (said loosely) or requires players to work towards the goal whilst bettering their skills and understanding of the mechanics… might just as well go back to playing pong instead.

Imo said content should have waypoints within them that need to be ticked off in order for achievements to be awarded to individuals, not done by one person that then grants the achievs to others. As for dungeon selling those waypoints should reflect what is gained upon completing it.. so selling spots for doing the last 1% of an end boss should reward accordingly.. ie nowt.

But as I said ANET have a twisted approach to their own game rules and that’s the way they like it I guess so what will be will be.

eXruina.4956:

^ Just as the title says, personally, I’m neutral about it. I’m just curious what people think when they see the ads on LFG is all. =)

Well, it’s a business like any other. At leats they use their game skills to earn gold, unlike some of the TP barons that can play only the TP minigame.

That saying, sometimes i want to cry when i see LFG sales for paths like AC p3, and i see them being filled up. Because that tells me a lot about the skill level of other players.

Atharian.7092:

Lets not forget that more people selling the dungeon means less people for you to actually group up and run it with.

Nah. Most people selling these paths would nto group with you anyway, and most people buying these paths you wouldn’t want to be grouped with.