Guild Wars 2

When someone says “end game” what does that mean to you?

When someone mentions end game to me….the two things that come to mind is raiding or numerous really hard 5 man’s….in which both drop really cool looking gear that you cannot get anywhere else other than completing those raids/instances.

I’m a PvP player and have rarely raided or PvE’d at all…..but from all my experience in MMO’s I would consider PvE the actual “end game” of a game. I don’t really consider PvP end game in any game…since it can be done in most games from a very low level.

End game means I can work on my armor and looks without my gear becoming worthless due to leveling. It also opens up the last bit of story for the player.

Eventually I’ll want to have more content to run. But honestly, I’m not finished with the dungeons yet, nor have I completed everything on the three Orr maps… haven’t visited the other 70-80 maps either.

Endgame is what you do when you finish the linear content in the game. (storyline, levelling)

Same goes for any game.

Endgame in my mind is simply a way to progress your character when leveling is no longer an objective.

Endgame: Things to do when you reach the current max level cap.

That’s what it has always meant, not sure where all of these other pseudo definitions are coming from.

Being Level 80.

Seeing as I’m already that, I’m in the end game. =] Still got a lot of stuff that I want to do, so I can see this end-game lasting a while.

To be honest I’ve never considered the Guild Wars brand to be bogged down by such outdated MMO concepts as ‘endgame’ content.

Guild Wars was never about rushing to level up and then raiding, and giving up hours of your life in the same 2 dungeons, over and over, in the hope you might get that one piece of armor that will make you feel better than other players. I don’t see the point in that concept either – it seems terribly boring to me and I’m actually dissapointed they have caved and given us dungeons in GW2. When I played WoW I avoided raiding and dungeons like the plague as I couldn’t think of anything more dull, yet I still had fun in the game. I was still able to do well in PvP, and travel the world doing all I needed and wanted to do without those bits of armor that were supposed to be what I was aiming for /shrugs

My idea of ‘endgame’ in Guild Wars is completing every single little thing I can complete on one character (story, exploring, skills unlocks, pretty armor skins, crafting, etc) …then starting a NEW character so I can experience it all again with a different class – and now also with a different race.

I think the problem is that a lot of players have come to this game with the idea that it will be a clone of the other MMOs out there. This game is NOT those games – it’s concepts and ideals are different. If you buy the game hoping for ‘endgame’ that consists of a WoW clone …then you probably will be disappointed if you can’t adapt to/enjoy the Guild Wars concept.

Personally, I love Guild Wars and I love this game. Neither game are perfect, but there is plenty enough content for me to enjoy it for a very long time – without rushing one character to 80 then sitting on my thumbs and whining that it’s not like every other MMO out there.

Just my opinion though

So far I see end game is only WvWvW and SPVP. My level 80 is board with dungeons and map PVE and don’t even mention crafting…I am not interested enough in game play combat mechanics to level atls over level 20.

Endgame is something created by players to judge games.

endgame is play the way you want. I dont give a kitten about raids, but Im a pvp player.

So my “endgame” is pvp I guess?

Its not about the destination, its about the journey.

I don’t have a level 80 and im taking my time doing 100% of zones and just enjoying NPC banter. I have 3gold on my level 37, and ive done all the 1-15 zones to 100% and initial starting cities + LA to 100%. I jump into wvw occasionally to goof around (100% map completion on Eternal Battleground)

I’m really enjoying the game and I think it will take me a while before i get to the “endgame”. I’m not rushing. Theres a LOT of the game people are missing. All the little details, the npcs, the little stories behind them. This is way more entertaining than grinding dungeons and work on legendaries(which I plan to do eventually as well).

endgame are overrated.

there is no endgame in Dota or Nhl 13.

if the game can really “show” the players that “skills” matter, then they dont need what you call an endgame.
problem is, gw2 doesnt do a great job at making you feel like your “playing skill” improve.

End game comes in about 1 week for hard core gamer and about 1 month for casual players. End game is all about finding fun things to do when one or more of your characters are maxed level.

Endgame to me, and I think it’s such to many people, is raiding.

It’s a meaningless and obsolete method of playing MMOs that people cling to because they’re addicted to the idea of getting new shinies with higher numbers than the previous shinies.

Yes, the boss fights are cool, but the two hours of organizing and unchallenging clearing before that and the two hours afterwards of loot dramatics aren’t worth the ten minutes of awesome fight. We all know people get bored of these after the first couple times anyway, and after that they don’t even LIKE playing through the stuff, they’re just so addicted to the idea of loot that they endure it.

So, I like Guild Wars 2 the way it is, in that you actually get to play the game without worrying about that nonsense. The DR issue needs to be addressed and event rewards need to be giving the same amount no matter where you are in order to really open the world up, but we’re pretty close to that.

To me, “End Game” is the period of time after one has finished the core game, or core goals.
For an “End Game” to have value or replay, there still has to be progression.
Progression, however, does NOT mean a gear treadmill nor does it mean faction grinding. Progression is simply the forward movement or acquiring of items/wealth/score for the purpose of “fun”.

A successful “End Game” is one that allows the player the freedom and/or choices in how one acquires their chosen progression. And of course, having lots of options in progression makes it even better.

A failed “End Game” is one that dictates or limits the players, not only in content or choices, but in how they can acquire their chosen progression.

That’s how I describe “End Game” at least.

poiuy.3907:

End game comes in about 1 week for hard core gamer and about 1 month for casual players. End game is all about finding fun things to do when one or more of your characters are maxed level.

Speak for yourself. I play 5 to 6 hours per weekday, and usually 12 hour sessions on the weekends, and my highest character is only level 52. I’m still very much enjoying this game. (granted I have 8 character slots, and enjoying all of them)

“Endgame” is whatever you do once you’ve reached cap on a character. In a sense, the term is meaningless for an MMO, which is supposed to be a virtual world, not a game with a beginning, middle and end. But unless a game is a sandbox or otherwise invests heavily in potentially infinite player-generated content, all developer-designed content is going to run out sooner or later. And for me, once I’ve done a thing a few times, it’s “dead” to me.

Personally, I’ve never bothered with “endgame” content in MMOs much. I do like challenging content, so 5-mans and that sort of thing I like. I like the idea of “raids” in theory, but in practice I’ve always found them too time-consuming and commitment-intensive to do.

Usually I just roll another alt, or bring one of my other alts up. To me, the best parts of an MMO are a) exploring the virtual world and b) mastering the various classes, pondering builds, etc.

I think PvP is good as an endgame concept, because it’s potentially infinite – i.e. people are more interesting to play against than AIs, so the “content” there (at least the combat content per se) is much richer and more challenging than anything developers can do at the moment.

Avatar.1923:

endgame are overrated.

there is no endgame in Dota or Nhl 13.

if the game can really “show” the players that “skills” matter, then they dont need what you call an endgame.
problem is, gw2 doesnt do a great job at making you feel like your “playing skill” improve.

I agree the GW2’s combat system is too jerky and too spamy which does not give players a good feel for their opponent’s actions or boss mob actions. Partical effects are also too much. The result is combat that is jerky, skill spammy and zergy in feel. GW2 combat does not flow well and combat lacks a general feel of weight behind each strike. Because of these short comings it’s hard for a player’s skill to make much of a difference.

WasAGuest.4973:

To me, “End Game” is the period of time after one has finished the core game, or core goals.
For an “End Game” to have value or replay, there still has to be progression.
Progression, however, does NOT mean a gear treadmill nor does it mean faction grinding. Progression is simply the forward movement or acquiring of items/wealth/score for the purpose of “fun”.

But progression in other MMOs is just gear checks, you aren’t actually getting any better, it’s an illusion to make you keep grinding. IE. you can’t get in the next dungeon until you have the full set of X gear from the previous dungeon.

Not to mention it’s a played out mechanic to keep you playing when subscription fees are involved.

To me it is having reached lvl 80 and assembling the best gear possible for my character. Considering I have only reached 35% world exploration on my Lvl 80 character, I will also be exploring the remainder(65%) the world and doing hearts, completing vistas and areas along with finishing all my slot skills not just the ones I want to use. Mix in a bunch of WvWvW and I have loads of end game to keep me busy for a long time yet.

I don’t see how end game has to mean raiding. Isn’t that just you bringing other games end game expectations to this game?

This game really doesn’t have raids in the pure definition of it. maybe WvWvW has a bit of raiding in a contorted form.

To me personally, being able to obtain the best gear and complete the toughest dungeons or PvP. I don’t think gear should be the reward in itself but merely a means to an end (higher quality of life, not obligatory to have the best to clear the toughest content, etc.)

At the lower end should be easier solo-content, like Molten Front dailies, and even more challenging solo-content as endgames should have different tiers.

Stevoli.8795:

WasAGuest.4973:

To me, “End Game” is the period of time after one has finished the core game, or core goals.
For an “End Game” to have value or replay, there still has to be progression.
Progression, however, does NOT mean a gear treadmill nor does it mean faction grinding. Progression is simply the forward movement or acquiring of items/wealth/score for the purpose of “fun”.

But progression in other MMOs is just gear checks, you aren’t actually getting any better, it’s an illusion to make you keep grinding.

Not to mention it’s a played out mechanic to keep you playing when subscription fees are involved.

That’s interesting you say that. I would classify that as part of the “Failed End Game” as I listed. I never applied any part of my answer towards any game at all actually. That you may have applied GW2 to any part of that (besides a success) is interesting.

Edit: I would also like to add; in an RPG (MMO, Single Player, PnP – doesn’t matter) there must always be a level of progression. Players are playing the “role of a character”. People don’t suddenly stop learning once they reach a certain point. However, MMOs technically can’t provide infinite growth. Therefore, progression must come in other forms.
I listed the three I felt are the most important. Items/Wealth/Score.
Items can be different sets of armor. Weath is the simple measure of gold or coin.
Score can be for those that enjoy PvP, or “Rank” if you will.

The moment we no longer have progression is the moment the game is no longer an RPG; but rather just an action title… at least, that’s how I see it.

Arte.1768:

To be honest I’ve never considered the Guild Wars brand to be bogged down by such outdated MMO concepts as ‘endgame’ content.

Guild Wars was never about rushing to level up and then raiding, and giving up hours of your life in the same 2 dungeons, over and over, in the hope you might get that one piece of armor that will make you feel better than other players. I don’t see the point in that concept either – it seems terribly boring to me and I’m actually dissapointed they have caved and given us dungeons in GW2. When I played WoW I avoided raiding and dungeons like the plague as I couldn’t think of anything more dull, yet I still had fun in the game. I was still able to do well in PvP, and travel the world doing all I needed and wanted to do without those bits of armor that were supposed to be what I was aiming for /shrugs

My idea of ‘endgame’ in Guild Wars is completing every single little thing I can complete on one character (story, exploring, skills unlocks, pretty armor skins, crafting, etc) …then starting a NEW character so I can experience it all again with a different class – and now also with a different race.

I think the problem is that a lot of players have come to this game with the idea that it will be a clone of the other MMOs out there. This game is NOT those games – it’s concepts and ideals are different. If you buy the game hoping for ‘endgame’ that consists of a WoW clone …then you probably will be disappointed if you can’t adapt to/enjoy the Guild Wars concept.

Personally, I love Guild Wars and I love this game. Neither game are perfect, but there is plenty enough content for me to enjoy it for a very long time – without rushing one character to 80 then sitting on my thumbs and whining that it’s not like every other MMO out there.

Just my opinion though

You do realize that a lot of players only play one race…and that the story would not change for them “much”?

Stevoli.8795:

WasAGuest.4973:

To me, “End Game” is the period of time after one has finished the core game, or core goals.
For an “End Game” to have value or replay, there still has to be progression.
Progression, however, does NOT mean a gear treadmill nor does it mean faction grinding. Progression is simply the forward movement or acquiring of items/wealth/score for the purpose of “fun”.

But progression in other MMOs is just gear checks, you aren’t actually getting any better, it’s an illusion to make you keep grinding. IE. you can’t get in the next dungeon until you have the full set of X gear from the previous dungeon.

Not to mention it’s a played out mechanic to keep you playing when subscription fees are involved.

Some next gen MMO’s actualy require constant player skill checks not gear checks. These MMO’s have boss mobs that can one or two shot you. The challenge is one of learning the complex boss moves and skills and learning how and when to action your combat and defensive skills during the right boss openings and at what distance and position you need to be in at all times. The Japanese term for this combat skill is “Seme”

I made a post regarding “End-game” on the opening day of forums. A lot of players confuse what “End-game” means by distorting it with their own definition. End-game has existed since the beginning of all MMO’s. When you have done all content and everything. “End-game” comes in after that, content to challenge you on all that you’ve done. It is not what it means to “you.” That is why it is called End-game content. It is what it is called.

People argue that this game isn’t like others but those people also don’t understand. All MMO’s have an end-game point. When you’ve done everything in the current content that it has to offer, people then request for end-game content. Content that challenges what you have done. Younger generation and new-to-gaming gamers don’t understand this in MMO’s. WoW did not create End-game content. MMO’s did.

A lot of PVE’rs, Including myself, announced our concern about end-game content not being visible and that we’d like an answer prior to MoP’s release, cause we know WoW has a well defined End-Game Content. ANET replied and stated that it would release new stuff officially as the game progressed. So here we are, the PvE’ers of GW2, sitting on our hands waiting.

This thread will cause a lot of confusion in the gaming community, especially to the younger generation of gamers and new-to-MMO gamers. End-game is what it says it is, not what you feel is “your” end-game.

Endgame to me is having stuff to do, playing with guildies, and progressing. However, GW2 does not really deliver that very well. In the end this game is pure PvP when it comes to endgame. Dungeons are really not that hard and limited to to a small party; once you do them a few times it’s all the same.

Then there’s doing open world stuff, but since rewards don’t scale; not much point going back to early zones so you end up in Bot Coast which is the only true lvl 80 zone.

As to gear…I opted to sell all my materials I had accumulated, bought full set of exotics super cheap, and made a large profit to boot in only a few days after hitting 80. This sort of things usually takes months to do in other MMOs, not a few hours. Guess thats cool for people with not a lot of time to invest since they can get top gear with almost zero effort. But for more hardcore gamers, perhaps not so neat…

I know people will say just play alts, but SWToR also went that route and we all know how that went.

Don’t get me wrong; GW2 is a kitten fine game and I more than got my monies worth.

However, “endgame” here just feels like a zergy mess with almost no real group based PvE content I (and my guild) can sink our teeth into. Sure WvWvW could be the place for that, but with long que times…the odds that you actually get a full crew in all at once in under a few hours is super slim.

Also the no trinity deal is a great twist, but being a player who totally enjoys playing healer/support; I can’t get that here and never will so I will have to look elsewhere.

W/e, GW2 has no sub fee so I won’t feel bad if I have to go to other MMOs to get my healing/raiding fix. There is pros and cons to both.

I still think GW2 rocks but it’s more of a casual game, mostly focused on PvP. I knew that when I bought it so I am not disappointed. I had hoped, however, that endgame would be a bit more meaty in the PvE department but that is not the case. Ah well.

End Game means I’ve beaten it or no longer wish to play it. =P

Well, End-Game for me means literally nothing. It is a word that adds a direction to a game which suggests that once you reached a certain point – be it a Level, a gear or whatever – the game will significantly change. But I suppose it will not. Having reached Maxlvl or what ever I think I will end up doing the same things that I have done before.

I made a post regarding “End-game” on the opening day of forums. A lot of players confuse what “End-game” means by distorting it with their own definition. End-game has existed since the beginning of all MMO’s. When you have done all content and everything. “End-game” comes in after that, content to challenge you on all that you’ve done. It is not what it means to “you.” That is why it is called End-game content. It is what it is called.

People argue that this game isn’t like others but those people also don’t understand. All MMO’s have an end-game point. When you’ve done everything in the current content that it has to offer, people then request for end-game content. Content that challenges what you have done. Younger generation and new-to-gaming gamers don’t understand this in MMO’s. WoW did not create End-game content. MMO’s did.

That doesn’t go for all types of MMOs. Several years ago I played a good old grinder. There was no real “Endgame” it was just infinite “progression”. Highlvls didn’t do much different stuff than the rest. They did it in different areas but the actions were not that different.

End game = time to find a new game.

End game, as it is used in MMO’s means the content you do at max level that is challenging and takes time to complete and work through its what gives the game longevity after you do the leveling/exploration thing, because repeating those things are just that repetitive and many find that not as fun. Most the time taking a good amount of people (which makes guilds seem closer to each other because they depend on the others).

Belcross.6127:

When you have done all content and everything. “End-game” comes in after that, content to challenge you on all that you’ve done. It is not what it means to “you.” That is why it is called End-game content. It is what it is called.

In the older MMOs though, once you complete a quest, it’s done, you can’t do it again. Once you out-level an area, it’s done, all mobs are grey and worth 0xp. That was the main reason for end-game (ie. Daily Repeatables), because all other content became worthless and was non-repeatable.

In GW2, we can go back and repeat dynamic events (quests) as many times as we want. We can go back to level 1-15 areas without being able to one-shot everything and still get XP for killing mobs and completing events.

I’m not sure if people are just completely ignoring the fact that we have tons of repeatable content, or they just want level 80 content, but there is plenty to do at end-game here.

To me, end game means more dungeons, explorable areas, and more challenges. However, to me, it doesn’t mean pvp or anything related to it.

To me end game is something that you can do or participate in because you earned your way to it. It’s usually in the form of a raid or pvp and of the highest challenge. I think it depends on the game though. I dont see pvp as end game in GW2 because its more like beginning game. You can pvp right after a fresh installation. I usually associate it with dungeons after getting to max level. I don’t see it any other way, most people have only been exposed to that one way of end game for nearly a decade. Maybe for this game we can build houses and stuff for end game? That would be cool! Any fresh ideas?

All exotic gear and PVPIng.
Its not hard to get there.

End game is cap to me in most games. Since I hate raiding, that when I quit playing that toon and go make an alt or 2..or 4…etc…

Doesn’t matter if there is a gear treadmill that will give me new shiny armor, points, weapons etc..Once I hit level cap, that toon goes into storage unless a guild group needs a certain class.

Coming at it from an almost entirely single-player RPG background with a big dose of sandbox games thrown in “end game” to me means one of 4 things:

1) You’ve finished one version of the main storyline. Time to;

• a. Make a secondary character to try out some other choices.
• b. Go do all the side-quests (aka hearts and dynamic events) you haven’t yet completed, finish exploring the map, get your favourite/the rarest gear, collect all of whatever you’re collecting (that last one may not apply to everyone but I’m a collector by habit so there’s always something.

2) You’ve finished all the developer-defined goals. Time to make up some of your own or do those things you always wondered about but never got around to. (You’d be surprised how often sandbox style game-play works in other games as long as you’re willing to consider finding out if your goals are possible it’s own reward.)

3) You’ve literally finished the game and there is nothing left to do. You’ve probably had a few hundred hours of enjoyment from it which is pretty good value for money compared to most forms of entertainment. Time to put it down, at least until new content is added or you feel like it would be fun to play through again. (Seriously, there’s some games I could play in my sleep I’ve completed them so many times but they’re still a lot of fun so I keep going back to them.)

4) Get involved in serious PVP. That pretty much never ends because you’re playing against other people who are always adapting their tactics.

What most people call “end game” I would consider part of the game itself. Like everything else it’s there to be completed but I don’t see the appeal in doing it over and over and over again, especially not to the point where you’re on a schedule it’s almost become a second job, but with less tangible or practical rewards.

Danikat.8537:

Coming at it from an almost entirely single-player RPG background with a big dose of sandbox games thrown in “end game” to me means one of 4 things:

1) You’ve finished one version of the main storyline. Time to;

• a. Make a secondary character to try out some other choices.
• b. Go do all the side-quests (aka hearts and dynamic events) you haven’t yet completed, finish exploring the map, get your favourite/the rarest gear, collect all of whatever you’re collecting (that last one may not apply to everyone but I’m a collector by habit so there’s always something.

2) You’ve finished all the developer-defined goals. Time to make up some of your own or do those things you always wondered about but never got around to. (You’d be surprised how often sandbox style game-play works in other games as long as you’re willing to consider finding out if your goals are possible it’s own reward.)

3) You’ve literally finished the game and there is nothing left to do. You’ve probably had a few hundred hours of enjoyment from it which is pretty good value for money compared to most forms of entertainment. Time to put it down, at least until new content is added or you feel like it would be fun to play through again. (Seriously, there’s some games I could play in my sleep I’ve completed them so many times but they’re still a lot of fun so I keep going back to them.)

4) Get involved in serious PVP. That pretty much never ends because you’re playing against other people who are always adapting their tactics.

What most people call “end game” I would consider part of the game itself. Like everything else it’s there to be completed but I don’t see the appeal in doing it over and over and over again, especially not to the point where you’re on a schedule it’s almost become a second job, but with less tangible or practical rewards.

lol how much does ANet pay you?!

Unfortunately nothing. If they feel like changing that I won’t complain.

But I did mean all that. It’s worked for me in the past with many other games. I get the impression it’s more actively encouraged in GW2 but I’d be doing it either way.

“To be honest I’ve never considered the Guild Wars brand to be bogged down by such outdated MMO concepts as ‘endgame’ content.”
Thanks Arte.1768

If only people were focused on “the game” thing would be a whole lot better.

End game IS the events you do after you reach your level cap. however guildwars doesnt believe in “End game” thus the content available after level 80 is no different than any other level.

Jc penny tried something similar having a “NO-SALES JUST FAIR PRICES” Add campaign that is taking them to bankrupsy. you cant just appeal to everyone and get away with it. IMO they better make some 80 end game quick b4 only fanboys are left.

MMORPG’s are mushrooms. You level your way up the linear stock, developing the ability to be an efficient solo player, and then you reach max level and are expected to perform a 180 degree turn and drop solo play in favor of group play, which requires a much different, much deeper understanding of the game. This paradigm shift creates a vacuum in which veterans are able to easily adapt to the endgame while it takes new players years to develop the skills to not be considered “bad”.

The concept of needing to level to reach the end is the intrinsically obvious but incorrect assumption (likely a carry over from early games which were 100% offline) that will need to be broken in order for a new epoch of MMO gaming to dawn. Think about it this way: there is no law stating that all MMO’s must have a max level, or even “levels” as we know them. This is a manufactured phenomenon. In fact, many pen and paper RPGs (arguably the basis for all MMOs, at least in spirit) have already done away with traditional levelling, in favor of a more dynamic approach.

Endgame is simply the conceptual inevitability of a game which begins as a solo linear experience before transitioning into a multiplayer MMO. While GW2 has taken steps to dilute this phenomenon, it is still following the same basic principles.

Fungalstorm.8593:

MMORPG’s are mushrooms.

This in conjunction with your name made me giggle like a small child.

• quest follow up to the storyline, like the glint quests in gw1
• once you beat the game and are max level you should finally understand your class, so now you should feel confident doing elite stuff with other players. Like tombs, uw, fow, in gw1
• PvP guidance such as crystal dessert missions in gw1 (though I don’t want to do gw2 PvP, wvw is a game of siege weapons, nothing more. spvp is super boring compared to gw1 PvP formats)
• get good upgrades for your armor and weapons
• start new character, find all the quests you might have missed before
• try different ways of doing things

To me “END GAME” means me fighting/killing the last boss of the game. It does not mean that its time to get on the gear treadmill grind. I don’t need 40man raid or 25 not even 10 man raid in fact it wouldn’t bother me at all if there was no raid.

Hitting some sort of cap in terms of character power.

PvP

Doing interesting dungeons with interesting people.

As an explorer-type player, I am difficult to provide ongoing content updates for: I don’t want uber gear or a mini-pet or a stat boost, I want another continent!

Luckily I also want to keep my job, so I don’t need another continent every week. It’ll be almost a relief for me when I’ve got my 100% on the map and done all the dungeons, and I can relax and cool it for a while (and level alts, my other compulsion) in the time before the first major expansion.

I’m also hoping to make PvP my endgame – or my ongoing game. I’ve always been curious but intimidated by the skill curve and the clannish culture of PvP, and this game seems to offer more of an in for novices like me – who would totally be hardcore if we only knew how!

oo err, well i did raiding in wow which for that game was end game.

in eve my end game was trading and building ships and mining oh and hunting down that weee kittene that took out my hauler in week 2….. i got him in the end.

in gw 1 my end game was guild vs guild

in gw 2 my end game will be wvw gvg combat.

why does end game have to be the same for every game you play?

why so focused on one style of game play? the point of different games is to get different experiences not to supply you with the same experience with a different logo.

Corian.4068:

Fungalstorm.8593:

MMORPG’s are mushrooms.

This in conjunction with your name made me giggle like a small child.

I tend to err on the side of fungus in all matters.

I quite like the definition of elder game (I think that was the term before end-game became popular) given by Richard Bartle in his book, even if the ’hero’s journey’ is a bit overused:

The Elder Game
There comes a point when players have advanced so far that they feel they have achieved everything that they set out to achieve. They are no longer interested in the activities that used to occupy their time: They feel they have “made it.” The question then arises: What can they do instead?

…

The content that occupies players in advanced states of immersion is known as the elder game. It deals with four types of player, each with differing needs. In hero’s journey terms, these are those who are in the following states:

• Pre-apotheosis. Players whose characters have advanced quicker than they themselves have. This may be because the players have had too much help on the way, or they didn’t recognize/understand the atonement (that is, final achievement) process. These players will want more of the content that they were consuming before they reached the elder game, but which they have now exhausted.

• Apotheosis. The players for whom the elder game is primarily intended. They have succeeded in their goal, and are enjoying resting on their laurels prior to returning to the real world.

• Refusal of return. They don’t want to stop playing, and the live team usually doesn’t want them to go either. However, they’ve either used all the elder game content or are self-generating it.

• Post-crossing of the return threshold. These players can return happily to the virtual world at any level. They have nothing to prove, and can therefore play how and when they want for the sheer joy of it.

Excerpt from Designing Virtual Worlds: Chapter 5 – Life in the Virtual World, Richard Bartle 2004.

To me personally, it means you’ve gained mastery in the game, and overcome any challenges or goals that were set by the game’s mechanics.

You are then free to apply that mastery in a way that is now completely determined by how you personally choose to express your interests, as well as the knowledge or skills that you’ve learned through playing the game. I like to think that some of the best end-game activities involve creating new content; taking part in events for the intrinsic pleasure they give; or collaborating with other players to share your experience and create new stories together.

“Apotheosis”? Gosh, sounds like a pretty big deal!

dybryd.1358:

“Apotheosis”? Gosh, sounds like a pretty big deal!

Yeah, I think the structure is a bit silly in places, as well as horribly sexist elsewhere – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomyth.

I think he was referring to ‘apotheosis’ in a game context meaning that you can eventually defeat the challenges set by the game, and as a result gain a kind of ‘final acceptance’ from the game’s designers.