Guild Wars 2

Everyone keeps saying this game lacks End Game.
I agree, but what exactly is “end game”
WvWvW?

Not really, thats continual game.
You continue to fight for your home world in an on going battle.

sPVP?
Again no… sPVP is the equivalent to Random Arena of the first guildwars.

Map Exploration?
Not really because thats still part of the game.
What happens if you finish the map?
Re roll a new toon and complete the world exploration again?

It all boils down to collectibles.

The thing that got me hooked on the first guildwars were the yearly presents and the menagerie of armour that can be obtained but also, the fact that Anet has perfected this forumula of armour being just a visual aesthetic and nothing more.
Stats are all standardized making it a game of skill and I can respect anyone who has earned Fissure of Woe armour or Orrian armour because part of getting those are the skills needed on pre existing armour stats that I have and I know personally how hard it can be but it doesnt make me go, “Oh I need that armour because it has better stats” Armour is a form of expression, you can mix and match it as you like, it shouldn’t be a uniform.

This is the thing that is missing in the current Guildwars 2.
Guildwars needs to realize its no longer dealing with a smaller crowd of people who enjoy PVP like Guildwars, its attracted crowds who love PVE and want PVE content and want something to show for it.

PVP you have /rank to show your kittenery
PVE… just armour and some weapons.

What I dont like about the new weapon skins and armour skins is… they’re based on luck and how rich you are.

I dont mind running through a dungeon to get a chance of getting a particular weapon or armour skin but right now… all it boils down to is how much money you can convert to gems (or buy gems) to get BLTC keys and hope you get lucky.

Anet, you’ve done a wonderful job perfecting the formula of Gear = Aesthetic need and if you want it, go get it and I commend you on it.

But maybe its time to stop relying on chance and wealth to get gear but on skills and chance.

You could release unique dungeon gear that only drops in the dungeon without having to use tokens, just skins.

And speaking of Collectibles.

Minis, rare dungeon minis that do not drop from the “Minis chest” in the gemstore but only acquired from killing certain dungeon bosses.

This would make people have the incentive to do hard dungeon paths or kill bosses (talking about Kholer) that would normally be skipped, instead of forcing people to go through with it.

Risk vs Reward

Lastly Out of Combat Speed Enhancements with Visual Aesthetic.
Aka Mounts.

Many people who will dissent this say, Use WP
WPs are not Immersive, Honestly i dont care how much they cost but they are not immersive,
Example: How many of you know the colour of trim around Div Reach’s drop gate?

Or say.
Mounts just make Guildwars2 into a WoW clone.

HOW? Because Guildwars 2 and WoW are already very similar?
Im sorry but no, this is a dumb rebuttal, saying having mounts turns a game into a WOW clone is just ludicrous and absurd.

As of right now, most people have sacrifice one utility slot for a their professions +25% speed boost. You dont use this skill in dungeons or in pvp or in WvWvW.
I like to hunt for events in places I’ve been before, I like to help out people, when I see a blue skull and crossbones, I run towards it and just as im in visual range the person WPs, 25% speedboost just doesnt cut it.

Firstly its a waste of a skill slot and secondly again Mounts can be treated as collectibles.

Either from earning them the hard old fashion way through PVE gold.
Buying them from the GemStore
Or a rare dungeon drop.

Well I already posted something about that here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Why-I-think-you-re-losing-active-players/page/3#post1826087

But end-game depends on the persons. For some it is building armor, for other it is WvW, for other it is raiding or for some it is attacking the enemy main city. Some of those are available in GW2, some are not.

WvW is my main end-content in GW2 but what is my end-content if it would be available.

Collecting mini’s, and then I am not talking about buying them from a gemstroe but completing achivements for them, doing dungeons for them, farming mobs for them and, getting them from quest so on. In another MMO I went so far as not completing quest that temporary gave me a item that spawned a mini. (by not completing those I could have multiple mini’s at a time what I think is nice)

Same for mounts and pets. I am a ranger and like to tame rare pets. Not really available in GW2 but I like to do that if it is available.

As last I like fun-craft, mainly crafts like engineering or (if is is very dynamic) breeding mini / pets and so on. Of course that should require recipes you need to get from dungeons or from fishing or from rare drops and so on.

Devata.6589:

Well I already posted something about that here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Why-I-think-you-re-losing-active-players/page/3#post1826087

But end-game depends on the persons. For some it is building armor, for other it is WvW, for other it is raiding or for some it is attacking the enemy main city. Some of those are available in GW2, some are not.

WvW is my main end-content in GW2 but what is my end-content if it would be available.

Collecting mini’s, and then I am not talking about buying them from a gemstroe but completing achivements for them, doing dungeons for them, farming mobs for them and, getting them from quest so on. In another MMO I went so far as not completing quest that temporary gave me a item that spawned a mini. (by not completing those I could have multiple mini’s at a time what I think is nice)

Same for mounts and pets. I am a ranger and like to tame rare pets. Not really available in GW2 but I like to do that if it is available.

As last I like fun-craft, mainly crafts like engineering or (if is is very dynamic) breeding mini / pets and so on. Of course that should require recipes you need to get from dungeons or from fishing or from rare drops and so on.

Yeah but see, what do those people do the raids for?
To collect loot.
That loot be it armour or weapons is a form of collectable.

You can do the same doing sPVP and WvWvW, unlocking skins.

And fun crafting, that falls under community, another aspect Gw2 is falls short on is the community building effort.

Theres no place where people actively hang out and seek the company for conversation with another person, because theres nothing to do in the inns.

The game feels like a single player game until the time it forces you to socialize via dungeon.

And I’ve also suggested other things for community building, but right now the end game needs more forms of collectibles, not just in the form of new weapon skins based on wealth and luck, but on skills and luck in the form of giving people an incentive to kill an otherwise skippable moment in a dungeon, be it a rare dungeon skin, a rare dungeon mini or even a rare dungeon mount.

Well if community stuff is what you are looking for the guild-hall might be an idea. I never really cared about that (saw many people asking for it) but last week I saw a video of guild-halls in Rift and I must say I was impressed. They could really build thinks (placing items in specific ways) and in that video somebody even made a jumping puzzle in the guild-hall.

If you search on google for “Rift Storm Legion (the bigger, beefier review)” and in the video you find you go to 20:40 you see what I am talking about.

But I would be happy with the thinks I said.

Devata.6589:

Well if community stuff is what you are looking for the guild-hall might be an idea. I never really cared about that (saw many people asking for it) but last week I saw a video of guild-halls in Rift and I must say I was impressed. They could really build thinks (placing items in specific ways) and in that video somebody even made a jumping puzzle in the guild-hall.

If you search on google for “Rift Storm Legion (the bigger, beefier review)” and in the video you find you go to 20:40 you see what I am talking about.

But I would be happy with the thinks I said.

Guildhalls are boring, you just hang out with people from your own guild
I want to hang out with people from the game.
Im playing an MMOrpg and I expect the MMO part to be true.

Sounds like your view on end game is the grind for gear. I am not sure if ppl would like that at all.

What if we had a game – where players got to define their own end game, instead of playing to how the developers wanted it to.

this happened in Guild Wars 1, I remember a place called Pre-Searing that was not intended to be the endgame, but for a select few, it was the end game.

People need to be less rigid and play games for their own enjoyment, not letting other people dictate their fun.

Jski.6180:

Sounds like your view on end game is the grind for gear. I am not sure if ppl would like that at all.

Gear grind?
Depends on what you mean on that.

Gear for visual aesthetic yes
Gear for high stats no

declan.3968:

What if we had a game – where players got to define their own end game, instead of playing to how the developers wanted it to.

this happened in Guild Wars 1, I remember a place called Pre-Searing that was not intended to be the endgame, but for a select few, it was the end game.

People need to be less rigid and play games for their own enjoyment, not letting other people dictate their fun.

And no one forced them out until the devs decided to make it so.

The suggestions I’ve given are all choices not ultimatums.

You dont like collecting minis, dont collect them.
You dont like speed boosts dont use them, you still got WPs.
You dont like the way a certain armour looks, dont get it, no loss, it has no beneficial stats.

Rizzy.8293:

Jski.6180:

Sounds like your view on end game is the grind for gear. I am not sure if ppl would like that at all.

Gear grind?
Depends on what you mean on that.

Gear for visual aesthetic yes
Gear for high stats no

Stats have nothing to do with a grind just getting new version of something in an time consuming way is some what of a grind. You could easily make it so exp only give you new looks past 80 but that would be more of a time sink.
I would like to see an end game with story effectively what they have now in GW2. WvW is a player generated story where events have there own story.

Jski.6180:

Rizzy.8293:

Jski.6180:

Sounds like your view on end game is the grind for gear. I am not sure if ppl would like that at all.

Gear grind?
Depends on what you mean on that.

Gear for visual aesthetic yes
Gear for high stats no

Stats have nothing to do with a grind just getting new version of something in an time consuming way is some what of a grind. You could easily make it so exp only give you new looks past 80 but that would be more of a time sink.
I would like to see an end game with story effectively what they have now in GW2. WvW is a player generated story where events have there own story.

Have you cleared Diessa Plateau?

That map has the most annoying POIs and Vistas, more annoying than Arah.

Do you know how amazing it felt to actually complete that map without looking at guides, confirming you’re actually that awesome to figure this out on your own?

Pretty good.

What you’re suggesting is the game just gives you hand outs at 80, no… sorry that devalues everything, might aswell just give hand outs for Legendaries.

Congrats on turning 80, please pick the legendary of your choice.

That quickly devalues things.

I take it you’re not a fan of the dailies either?

For me, dailies are just there.

80 percent, mostly, of the things they want me to do are things I normally do anyways.
That extra 20 just tells me to go someplace else that I might never go.

Along the way I might meet people, I might unlock that map or whatever, bottomline, it gave me an incentive to do something I would normally not do.

Rizzy.8293:

Jski.6180:

Rizzy.8293:

Jski.6180:

Sounds like your view on end game is the grind for gear. I am not sure if ppl would like that at all.

Gear grind?
Depends on what you mean on that.

Gear for visual aesthetic yes
Gear for high stats no

Stats have nothing to do with a grind just getting new version of something in an time consuming way is some what of a grind. You could easily make it so exp only give you new looks past 80 but that would be more of a time sink.
I would like to see an end game with story effectively what they have now in GW2. WvW is a player generated story where events have there own story.

Have you cleared Diessa Plateau?

That map has the most annoying POIs and Vistas, more annoying than Arah.

Do you know how amazing it felt to actually complete that map without looking at guides, confirming you’re actually that awesome to figure this out on your own?

Pretty good.

What you’re suggesting is the game just gives you hand outs at 80, no… sorry that devalues everything, might aswell just give hand outs for Legendaries.

Congrats on turning 80, please pick the legendary of your choice.

That quickly devalues things.

I take it you’re not a fan of the dailies either?

For me, dailies are just there.

80 percent, mostly, of the things they want me to do are things I normally do anyways.
That extra 20 just tells me to go someplace else that I might never go.

Along the way I might meet people, I might unlock that map or whatever, bottomline, it gave me an incentive to do something I would normally not do.

You miss understand i am just saying there a lot of hate with any thing that even looks kind of like a grind. You have ppl on these forums complaining to no end that its hard to make a legendary even though its not needed and it should be hard to get.

To me WvW is the best end game you could ever have in an mmorpg. It is endless content there is no true boring moment and you will find random things that will happen to make it feel more player generated game. Spvp should be part of the end game but GW2 spvp must compete with a lot of other pure pvp games such as LoL, SC2, or DotA2. As for the pve end game in effect level 1-80 was made to be the end game but ppl tended to burn though the level missing out on a lot of content that can only be had by playing slow and at a low level. They have added in new gear to give pve players something to work for in the long run and i am sure they will add in more armor skins in time. They could add in an over level system much like in WvW but aimed at giving you +1% of something at a very high skill point cost or a very high new type of exp. There always adding in new skills but that is only a temp. fix. I still think story is the best way to make pve end game or add in more effects we got boon +% on armor what else could we get on armor.

Jski.6180:

You miss understand i am just saying there a lot of hate with any thing that even looks kind of like a grind. You have ppl on these forums complaining to no end that its hard to make a legendary even though its not needed and it should be hard to get.

To me WvW is the best end game you could ever have in an mmorpg. It is endless content there is no true boring moment and you will find random things that will happen to make it feel more player generated game. Spvp should be part of the end game but GW2 spvp must compete with a lot of other pure pvp games such as LoL, SC2, or DotA2. As for the pve end game in effect level 1-80 was made to be the end game but ppl tended to burn though the level missing out on a lot of content that can only be had by playing slow and at a low level. They have added in new gear to give pve players something to work for in the long run and i am sure they will add in more armor skins in time. They could add in an over level system much like in WvW but aimed at giving you +1% of something at a very high skill point cost or a very high new type of exp. There always adding in new skills but that is only a temp. fix. I still think story is the best way to make pve end game or add in more effects we got boon +% on armor what else could we get on armor.

To me wvwvw is a kitten contest between 2 zergs, I tolerate it but I wouldnt call it the best gw2 has to offer.

And secondly I believe in the philosophy, its not a grind if you want to do it.

Yeh legendary is something that should be hard to get.
But I do agree with those people right now its ridiculously hard to get the precursors.
I think the real issue is the gambling, you have to gamble exotics to get a precursor.

And I dunno, Im not a gambling person also I’m not interested in the flashy weapons :\
So I dont really have this problem, but the whole gambling aspect, I can agree with them to some level.

And I’m not a fan of ascended items, it went against what they said about gear grinding.

Secondly they dont have the prefix i want, carrion.

Again no issue for me :|

And they already have new skin, like waaay early in the game, primeval, krytan and profane armours but those are BLTC skins, again with the new weapon skins the fused weapons, BLTC skins again, only this time requires you to have luck and money to buy keys. just like with halloween skins.

Again i mention I’m not a gambling person, so I’m not gonna waste my money on trinkets like those.

What this game needs is PVE incentives that encourages people to do something they wouldnt do.

You say PVE story content, Arah has a wonderful Exploration story, I done it once all four paths.
They were a nightmare.

I look at the dungeon token merchant… I saw nothing I wanted.
Would I ever do arah again?

Not in a million years.

Now if Arah had an incentive for people not interested in the token rewards like an armour skin unique to the bosses in the dungeon, or a mini that dropped off one of them.

Would I want to?
Depends if I like the items that can only be attained from it.

What does this mean for the community though?
+1 one more player willing to burn 2 hours of their lives through a horrible dungeon.

I hope there is no “end game”, because, that would mean no expansions/NEW CONTENT as the game will end. Think about it.

Im Mudbone.1437:

I hope there is no “end game”, because, that would mean no expansions/NEW CONTENT as the game will end. Think about it.

Thats not what End Game means.

Rizzy.8293:

Im Mudbone.1437:

I hope there is no “end game”, because, that would mean no expansions/NEW CONTENT as the game will end. Think about it.

Thats not what End Game means.

Please enlighten me, what is your definition of the term “END GAME” because end game means just what it says.

Im Mudbone.1437:

Rizzy.8293:

Im Mudbone.1437:

I hope there is no “end game”, because, that would mean no expansions/NEW CONTENT as the game will end. Think about it.

Thats not what End Game means.

Please enlighten me, what is your definition of the term “END GAME” because end game means just what it says.

It means, thinks people do once they reach the max level.

Devata.6589:

Im Mudbone.1437:

Rizzy.8293:

Im Mudbone.1437:

I hope there is no “end game”, because, that would mean no expansions/NEW CONTENT as the game will end. Think about it.

Thats not what End Game means.

Please enlighten me, what is your definition of the term “END GAME” because end game means just what it says.

It means, things people do once they reach the max level.

this is what end game means.

Most people start collecting and hording things.
In Guildwars it was Armour.

End game starts at whatever you choose it to be. If your end game starts at 80, then choose something to do and so be it. Don’t let the developer rigidly define an endgame for you. This is an MMO, not a spoon feeding contest.

Do what you want to do.

There shouldn’t be an incentive for you to enjoy the game.

If it’s getting tiring, then this game isn’t for you, so move on to another game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_endgame

In chess and chess-like games, the endgame (or end game or ending) is the stage of the game when there are few pieces left on the board.

Or basically, the point where one of the parties says GG and you start a new game (unless the endgame is not trivial). To play out a trivial endgame is considered bad mannered.

In MMOs however, it means exactly that. To keep repeating the same trivial content even though it has been beaten. And people wonder why MMO players are so bad mannered on average …

declan.3968:

End game starts at whatever you choose it to be. If your end game starts at 80, then choose something to do and so be it. Don’t let the developer rigidly define an endgame for you. This is an MMO, not a spoon feeding contest.

Do what you want to do.

There shouldn’t be an incentive for you to enjoy the game.

If it’s getting tiring, then this game isn’t for you, so move on to another game.

I don’t think anybody here ask to let developers rigidly define an endgame for you.

They simply ask for more options to choose from.

marnick.4305:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_endgame

In chess and chess-like games, the endgame (or end game or ending) is the stage of the game when there are few pieces left on the board.

Or basically, the point where one of the parties says GG and you start a new game (unless the endgame is not trivial). To play out a trivial endgame is considered bad mannered.

In MMOs however, it means exactly that. To keep repeating the same trivial content even though it has been beaten. And people wonder why MMO players are so bad mannered on average …

Chess =/= MMORPG

You’re one of those people who thinks the term Dungeon Finder means a tool that finds dungeons huh?

Rizzy.8293:

marnick.4305:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_endgame

In chess and chess-like games, the endgame (or end game or ending) is the stage of the game when there are few pieces left on the board.

Or basically, the point where one of the parties says GG and you start a new game (unless the endgame is not trivial). To play out a trivial endgame is considered bad mannered.

In MMOs however, it means exactly that. To keep repeating the same trivial content even though it has been beaten. And people wonder why MMO players are so bad mannered on average …

Chess =/= MMORPG

You’re one of those people who thinks the term Dungeon Finder means a tool that finds dungeons huh?

Game = game. If find it absurd how the meaning of endgame is completely different in MMOs compared to every other game. In Starcraft, you’re expected to say GG once a decisive position has been reached in the endgame. In Counter-Strike you say thanks once the game has been decided. In bridge, once the game has been decided, you throw the cards on the table and claim a win. In all other games, one doesn’t play out a decided endgame because it’s rude.

In MMO games, playing out a trivial endgame is expected and called “content”. I find that pretty weird, but maybe I’m just used to competitive and skilled games. However the term “endgame” has no place in MMOs.

No idea what dungeon finders have to do with this thread, but I’m of the opinion finding dungeons is best left to the playerbase so A.net can focus on more important things.

My endgame is gameplay based. I just want 8 characters in full Exotics, and then master each class, to be able to effectively run dungeons with all of my characters. Doing dungeons are the fun part of the game for me.
Slowly saving up for nice skins is nice, but not the source of my main enjoyment.

For the record, I’m not saying I don’t like a bit of gear progression, but it shouldn’t be called “endgame”. As a moderately skilled chess and starcraft player, I find the term “endgame” for repeating trivial content inherently insulting.

marnick.4305:

Rizzy.8293:

marnick.4305:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_endgame

In chess and chess-like games, the endgame (or end game or ending) is the stage of the game when there are few pieces left on the board.

Or basically, the point where one of the parties says GG and you start a new game (unless the endgame is not trivial). To play out a trivial endgame is considered bad mannered.

In MMOs however, it means exactly that. To keep repeating the same trivial content even though it has been beaten. And people wonder why MMO players are so bad mannered on average …

Chess =/= MMORPG

You’re one of those people who thinks the term Dungeon Finder means a tool that finds dungeons huh?

Game = game. If find it absurd how the meaning of endgame is completely different in MMOs compared to every other game. In Starcraft, you’re expected to say GG once a decisive position has been reached in the endgame. In Counter-Strike you say thanks once the game has been decided. In bridge, once the game has been decided, you throw the cards on the table and claim a win. In all other games, one doesn’t play out a decided endgame because it’s rude.

In MMO games, playing out a trivial endgame is expected and called “content”. I find that pretty weird, but maybe I’m just used to competitive and skilled games. However the term “endgame” has no place in MMOs.

No idea what dungeon finders have to do with this thread, but I’m of the opinion finding dungeons is best left to the playerbase so A.net can focus on more important things.

Okay buddy, I’m done talking to you if you’re going to be “End Game = Chess rule End Games or StarCraft End Game” You clearly cant contextualize.

End Game in MMORPG terms = Things you do once you hit 80.
I’ll fill in the blanks for you.

End of max level Game.

Dungeon Group Finder

Gw2LFG Experienced = Experienced in applicable dungeon

Now if you’re going to continue arguing over technicalities, because you’re unable to contextualize, please dont respond any further.

Rizzy.8293:

marnick.4305:

Rizzy.8293:

marnick.4305:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_endgame

In chess and chess-like games, the endgame (or end game or ending) is the stage of the game when there are few pieces left on the board.

Or basically, the point where one of the parties says GG and you start a new game (unless the endgame is not trivial). To play out a trivial endgame is considered bad mannered.

In MMOs however, it means exactly that. To keep repeating the same trivial content even though it has been beaten. And people wonder why MMO players are so bad mannered on average …

Chess =/= MMORPG

You’re one of those people who thinks the term Dungeon Finder means a tool that finds dungeons huh?

Game = game. If find it absurd how the meaning of endgame is completely different in MMOs compared to every other game. In Starcraft, you’re expected to say GG once a decisive position has been reached in the endgame. In Counter-Strike you say thanks once the game has been decided. In bridge, once the game has been decided, you throw the cards on the table and claim a win. In all other games, one doesn’t play out a decided endgame because it’s rude.

In MMO games, playing out a trivial endgame is expected and called “content”. I find that pretty weird, but maybe I’m just used to competitive and skilled games. However the term “endgame” has no place in MMOs.

No idea what dungeon finders have to do with this thread, but I’m of the opinion finding dungeons is best left to the playerbase so A.net can focus on more important things.

Okay buddy, I’m done talking to you if you’re going to be “End Game = Chess rule End Games or StarCraft End Game” You clearly cant contextualize.

End Game in MMORPG terms = Things you do once you hit 80.
I’ll fill in the blanks for you.

End of max level Game.

Well … at the end of the game you start a new one. Alting is the only proper form of endgame. What you want to argue about is midgame. So please stick to the proper terms. Endgame is right before the game ends. MMO endgame is a contradiction.

Dungeon Group Finder

Gw2LFG Experienced = Experienced in applicable dungeon

Now if you’re going to continue arguing over technicalities, because you’re unable to contextualize, please dont respond any further.

Good idea. Stay silent then if you can’t stand the proper definition of endgame.

marnick.4305:

Rizzy.8293:

marnick.4305:

Rizzy.8293:

marnick.4305:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_endgame

In chess and chess-like games, the endgame (or end game or ending) is the stage of the game when there are few pieces left on the board.

Or basically, the point where one of the parties says GG and you start a new game (unless the endgame is not trivial). To play out a trivial endgame is considered bad mannered.

In MMOs however, it means exactly that. To keep repeating the same trivial content even though it has been beaten. And people wonder why MMO players are so bad mannered on average …

Chess =/= MMORPG

You’re one of those people who thinks the term Dungeon Finder means a tool that finds dungeons huh?

Game = game. If find it absurd how the meaning of endgame is completely different in MMOs compared to every other game. In Starcraft, you’re expected to say GG once a decisive position has been reached in the endgame. In Counter-Strike you say thanks once the game has been decided. In bridge, once the game has been decided, you throw the cards on the table and claim a win. In all other games, one doesn’t play out a decided endgame because it’s rude.

In MMO games, playing out a trivial endgame is expected and called “content”. I find that pretty weird, but maybe I’m just used to competitive and skilled games. However the term “endgame” has no place in MMOs.

No idea what dungeon finders have to do with this thread, but I’m of the opinion finding dungeons is best left to the playerbase so A.net can focus on more important things.

Okay buddy, I’m done talking to you if you’re going to be “End Game = Chess rule End Games or StarCraft End Game” You clearly cant contextualize.

End Game in MMORPG terms = Things you do once you hit 80.
I’ll fill in the blanks for you.

End of max level Game.

Well … at the end of the game you start a new one. Alting is the only proper form of endgame. What you want to argue about is midgame. So please stick to the proper terms. Endgame is right before the game ends. MMO endgame is a contradiction.

Dungeon Group Finder

Gw2LFG Experienced = Experienced in applicable dungeon

Now if you’re going to continue arguing over technicalities, because you’re unable to contextualize, please dont respond any further.

Good idea. Stay silent then if you can’t stand the proper definition of endgame.

Alting, wow so your idea of end gaming is re rolling and go through the whole story again.

Excellent idea /end sarcasm.

Stay silent then if you can’t stand the proper definition of endgame in the proper context.

declan.3968:

What if we had a game – where players got to define their own end game, instead of playing to how the developers wanted it to.

this happened in Guild Wars 1, I remember a place called Pre-Searing that was not intended to be the endgame, but for a select few, it was the end game.

People need to be less rigid and play games for their own enjoyment, not letting other people dictate their fun.

all the players that did that…. yeah there on tarnished cost server in the human starter citys. Just FYI

Rizzy.8293:

marnick.4305:

Rizzy.8293:

marnick.4305:

Rizzy.8293:

marnick.4305:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_endgame

In chess and chess-like games, the endgame (or end game or ending) is the stage of the game when there are few pieces left on the board.

Or basically, the point where one of the parties says GG and you start a new game (unless the endgame is not trivial). To play out a trivial endgame is considered bad mannered.

In MMOs however, it means exactly that. To keep repeating the same trivial content even though it has been beaten. And people wonder why MMO players are so bad mannered on average …

Chess =/= MMORPG

You’re one of those people who thinks the term Dungeon Finder means a tool that finds dungeons huh?

Game = game. If find it absurd how the meaning of endgame is completely different in MMOs compared to every other game. In Starcraft, you’re expected to say GG once a decisive position has been reached in the endgame. In Counter-Strike you say thanks once the game has been decided. In bridge, once the game has been decided, you throw the cards on the table and claim a win. In all other games, one doesn’t play out a decided endgame because it’s rude.

In MMO games, playing out a trivial endgame is expected and called “content”. I find that pretty weird, but maybe I’m just used to competitive and skilled games. However the term “endgame” has no place in MMOs.

No idea what dungeon finders have to do with this thread, but I’m of the opinion finding dungeons is best left to the playerbase so A.net can focus on more important things.

Okay buddy, I’m done talking to you if you’re going to be “End Game = Chess rule End Games or StarCraft End Game” You clearly cant contextualize.

End Game in MMORPG terms = Things you do once you hit 80.
I’ll fill in the blanks for you.

End of max level Game.

Well … at the end of the game you start a new one. Alting is the only proper form of endgame. What you want to argue about is midgame. So please stick to the proper terms. Endgame is right before the game ends. MMO endgame is a contradiction.

Dungeon Group Finder

Gw2LFG Experienced = Experienced in applicable dungeon

Now if you’re going to continue arguing over technicalities, because you’re unable to contextualize, please dont respond any further.

Good idea. Stay silent then if you can’t stand the proper definition of endgame.

Alting, wow so your idea of end gaming is re rolling and go through the whole story again.

Excellent idea /end sarcasm.

Stay silent then if you can’t stand the proper definition of endgame in the proper context.

to be fair atlest half of the story wont be the same and will flush out more lore for you if you play both anouther race AND join Different Group

UnderdogSMO.9428:

Rizzy.8293:

marnick.4305:

Rizzy.8293:

marnick.4305:

Rizzy.8293:

marnick.4305:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_endgame

In chess and chess-like games, the endgame (or end game or ending) is the stage of the game when there are few pieces left on the board.

Or basically, the point where one of the parties says GG and you start a new game (unless the endgame is not trivial). To play out a trivial endgame is considered bad mannered.

In MMOs however, it means exactly that. To keep repeating the same trivial content even though it has been beaten. And people wonder why MMO players are so bad mannered on average …

Chess =/= MMORPG

You’re one of those people who thinks the term Dungeon Finder means a tool that finds dungeons huh?

Game = game. If find it absurd how the meaning of endgame is completely different in MMOs compared to every other game. In Starcraft, you’re expected to say GG once a decisive position has been reached in the endgame. In Counter-Strike you say thanks once the game has been decided. In bridge, once the game has been decided, you throw the cards on the table and claim a win. In all other games, one doesn’t play out a decided endgame because it’s rude.

In MMO games, playing out a trivial endgame is expected and called “content”. I find that pretty weird, but maybe I’m just used to competitive and skilled games. However the term “endgame” has no place in MMOs.

No idea what dungeon finders have to do with this thread, but I’m of the opinion finding dungeons is best left to the playerbase so A.net can focus on more important things.

Okay buddy, I’m done talking to you if you’re going to be “End Game = Chess rule End Games or StarCraft End Game” You clearly cant contextualize.

End Game in MMORPG terms = Things you do once you hit 80.
I’ll fill in the blanks for you.

End of max level Game.

Well … at the end of the game you start a new one. Alting is the only proper form of endgame. What you want to argue about is midgame. So please stick to the proper terms. Endgame is right before the game ends. MMO endgame is a contradiction.

Dungeon Group Finder

Gw2LFG Experienced = Experienced in applicable dungeon

Now if you’re going to continue arguing over technicalities, because you’re unable to contextualize, please dont respond any further.

Good idea. Stay silent then if you can’t stand the proper definition of endgame.

Alting, wow so your idea of end gaming is re rolling and go through the whole story again.

Excellent idea /end sarcasm.

Stay silent then if you can’t stand the proper definition of endgame in the proper context.

to be fair atlest half of the story wont be the same and will flush out more lore for you if you play both anouther race AND join Different Group

yes until you hit level 30 and then it becomes traherne’s story.

On the topic of end game as used in the MMO Genre…

every different area of interest develops its own language. It’s part of how language evolves. A single enemy unit in an MMO is called a mob. In English though, a mob is a group, not a single unit. It’s how language changes.

If you collect stamps, you might be familiar with a hinge, a clear folded adhesive that holds stamps in an album. It doesn’t do anything for your bedroom door, however.

In games like chess, there is a specific kind of end game because the games ACTUALLY end. You can always play another game, but that game will end to. It will end in a win, loss or draw.

MMOs, being based originally on pen and paper RPGs don’t end. So the standard definition of end game simply can’t be applied here. The industry took the term and used to to mean what you do at level cap. That’s how it’s used.

It shouldn’t be insulting to chess’s end game, because it has nothing to do with a game that has an ending.

I’ve been playing this game for months and it hasn’t actually ended yet.

this game has amazing pve Arenanet…..but it doesnt have a competative nature and not many pvp options. a lot of people think they get bored at end-game after their lvl80 (or multiple lvl80s) cuz the end-game for lvl80s is small in the PVE world, but the reality is that it isnt…..its pretty big, but there isnt a lot of pvp to go around so people dont become completatively addicted to the game. make the game competative guys, you need it.

The game lacks a lot of depth.

If they had things like player/guild housing, actual guild vs guild, an enjoyable WvW map, balanced PvP systems and classes, and a s/tPvP system that wasn’t totally isolated things would have a little more player interaction. But the way things are right now, if you don’t like WvW you’ve got nothing to do all day.

It’s just a rediculous term for an absurd concept. Usually it means repeating the same trivial content ad nauseam. I was using irony to show how that’s actually considered bad mannered in other games and why traditional implementations of MMO endgame were so bad.

Dear lord … if that wasn’t obvious from my first post, before people started arguing, I’m sorry. But I stand by the point … endgame in MMO games means repeating trivial content which is considered bad mannered in the endgame of virtually every other game.

Atherakhia.4086:

The game lacks a lot of depth.

If they had things like player/guild housing, actual guild vs guild, an enjoyable WvW map, balanced PvP systems and classes, and a s/tPvP system that wasn’t totally isolated things would have a little more player interaction. But the way things are right now, if you don’t like WvW you’ve got nothing to do all day.

correction lol…..after u reachy lvlcap and got a lot of cool stuff WVW and SPVP is all u got lol :P.

after you reach level cap in most other MMOs all you have is battlegrounds or running the same bosses over and over,

wait i see a similarity here! difference is fractals keep getting harder.

the game has ’’engdgame’’ but unlike most theres not a big kitten arrow saying ‘’grind here, run this, do this, make me a coffee, go back to step1 and repeat’’

DrixTrix.7168:

after you reach level cap in most other MMOs all you have is battlegrounds or running the same bosses over and over,

wait i see a similarity here! difference is fractals keep getting harder.

the game has ’’engdgame’’ but unlike most theres not a big kitten arrow saying ‘’grind here, run this, do this, make me a coffee, go back to step1 and repeat’’

Khm… khm… Dailies khm… khm…

on the subject of dailies i have never said to myself ‘’right lets do the daily’’ it just gets done through playing in general i cannot understand why people set out to complete this thing specially, that is just me though.

although i will say i have never really liked or enjoyed raiding so i dont miss or even look for this type of gameplay, WvW is more my thing than anything however i do enjoy the PvE in this game i just wish it was a little more difficult.

Atherakhia.4086:

The game lacks a lot of depth.

If they had things like player/guild housing, actual guild vs guild, an enjoyable WvW map, balanced PvP systems and classes, and a s/tPvP system that wasn’t totally isolated things would have a little more player interaction. But the way things are right now, if you don’t like WvW you’ve got nothing to do all day.

World Boss events, dailies and SAB seem to occupy my time. Or else I would be in WvW.

Well… The fact is: The game doesnt have end game, BUT there is plenty of stuff to do at level 80. Thats not the same thing.

End game = Stuff that can only be done by level 80’s. But this game got no thing such as end game. But still, it got the world bosses, all the dungeons, daily, legendaries, WvW, PvP, exploration etc. So there is alot to do

First off, GW2 has plenty of end-game.

But I think people complain there’s no end-game because Anet didn’t restrict things like dungeons, WvW, and PvP to having to be 80 to access it. You can do a lot of that at level 2 and dungeons are unlocked pretty quickly as you progress. Just because it’s accessible before max level (80) doesn’t mean there is no end-game content. Fractals I guess are the only true max-level content. But seriously, there’s a lot to do at all levels. And I think that’s great.

DrixTrix.7168:

on the subject of dailies i have never said to myself ‘’right lets do the daily’’ it just gets done through playing in general i cannot understand why people set out to complete this thing specially, that is just me though.

If i have limited time i just do the daily and chat for a bit. It’s pretty much the only time i actually set out to do it.

Rizzy.8293:

Have you cleared Diessa Plateau?

That map has the most annoying POIs and Vistas, more annoying than Arah.

No, I found I hated other areas much more than Diessa.

- Malchor’s Leap. That northwestern segment? Hated it with a passion. Next time I’m convincing people to come with.

- Timberline Falls. A bugged Heart or two had me scraping minor progress because events hadn’t finished properly. Hopefully it’s not stuck the next time.

- Brisban Wilderness, that perma-bugged Seraph Observers’ Camp where the bandits keep spawning. Some with exploding kegs. Annoying as all heck.

- Queensdale. “Is SB up?!” nonstop. More of a player problem than game issue. Please note, this is the place I find the worst about it. Wayfarer’s Foothills isn’t so rabid about Frozen Maw.

- Caledon Forest, Dark Reverie jumping challenge. I do not like this one and find it annoying to do solo. Mostly because I have to climb the Spiral again to get into it.

- Southsun Cove. Veteran Reef Riders. No, no no no no no no no no no no no no.

People crack me up – playing a RPGMMOs and then somehow they are searching for this elusive “end game”, as if its an attainable noun to be collected. The term itself should be a clue. It’s End Game … the end of the game. End Game is some kitten that a suit made up like market derivatives, to keep players interested and keep the subs coming in. Personally I have found there is much more fun in the journey as opposed to the destination.

Maybe its just me. I come from a D&D background where if a character ever reached max level they were pretty much killed off or retired. There were and are some forays into epic levels or demi-godhood but most often not. Such role playing games were built around the core leveling experience – not what to do once you get there. I just found it very frustrating looking at gaming from this “end game” perspective over the years. Eventually I realized I had much more fun leveling than I did grinding or chasing carrots at max level.

Just my opinion of course. I realize people have varying play styles.

i did not read through all the posts but im just gonna answer the OP question posed.

End game = content you do at max level.

I personally would go a step further and say its content thats only available at max level. Using my extended definition that boils down to Higher Fractals and Arah in the PvE department as they are about the only things you cant do at lower levels. Everything else is available in some form at lower levels. While that may be my definition i think most and i agree is end game content means challenging content that has progression.

I was in a fractals group yesterday and one of the topics while going through it was talking about we all wished there was more then just fractals. I to would love a different set of fractals as fractals are essentially end game PvE that exists. I would like challenging content to progress through, something that cant be completed in one go and isnt dependent on dailys as its not ment to be completed in a day. Something that requires learning an encounter and is not just hard in terms of hits hard or lot of health but has mechanics that you must adhear to.

This is my vision of end game personally, i want something to work towards that isnt gathering tokens to progress. I want bosses that prevent progression due to challenge , has vertical progression within the dungeon itself (see agony resist) and has a limited amount of difficulties. Not the 50+ that fractals have but serve no purpose, just say 5 or 10. A limited amount in that each level means something perhaps an additional mechanic added each level.

Warruz.8096:

i did not read through all the posts but im just gonna answer the OP question posed.

End game = content you do at max level.

I personally would go a step further and say its content thats only available at max level.

Collecting thinks (and that can be everything, from armor, to mounts, to achivements) is also end-content and is available from the beginning but mostly you can no collect it all until you reach the max level.

I think “end game” shouldn’t apply to MMORPG, because the term implies attrition. It makes sense in Chess, where you’re constantly losing pieces on both sides, or DotA, where towers get destroyed and players begin to snowball by hitting high levels and attaining powerful equipment. It has very little applicability to the post-WoW MMORPG genre.

if you’re looking for never-ending progression after max level (aka gear threadmill), than this is the wrong game for you.
it sure does have goals after level 80, like skin-hunting, legendary weapons, 100% world completion but the main goal is trying to just have fun, exploring, test your actual player skills and different builds out at competetive PvP or WvW.

it’ll sure get boring quick, if you’ll rush through everything, but don’t call GW2 “a lack-of-end game”-game if you do so.

and thanks to the monthly major updates, it won’t get boring that soon. ;D

wauwi.9162:

if you’re looking for never-ending progression after max level (aka gear threadmill), than this is the wrong game for you.
it sure does have goals after level 80, like skin-hunting, legendary weapons, 100% world completion but the main goal is trying to just have fun, exploring, test your actual player skills and different builds out at competetive PvP or WvW.

it’ll sure get boring quick, if you’ll rush through everything, but don’t call GW2 “a lack-of-end game”-game if you do so.

and thanks to the monthly major updates, it won’t get boring that soon. ;D

Gear treadmill?
Minis are gear now?

Is that why they’re constantly putting out new minis in the form of BLTCs and New weapons skins in the form of BLTCs too?

Stop being cliche please :>

When you say Gear treadmill you mean STATS treadmill, theres already new gear skins out in Gw2 ontop of the dungeon gears and the legendary and those dont require skills to obtain they require luck, luck and money