Guild Wars 2

They need to make actual content that is rewarded during gameplay and not in the gemstore. I have a bad feeling this is how EQN is going to be as well which is a shame.

KarlaGrey.5903:

I am less of a dungeon / raid guy more of a story and immersion guy and thats what they offered me (cant speak for others) with the Living World.

AT GalenGrey, the depth and quality of GW2’s story/content are abismally low (a snore fest which, due to content recycling and continuous repetition, soon turns your game experience into one of annoyance, unless you’re some sort of a masochist), but I guess that sits well with quite a lot of people. Kinda hard to get more superficial than it is, and given the critics I’ve read about the scarlet LS and a few others, there is little hope of improval.
It is very much a twisted version of ’don’t fix what ain’t broken’ – if something sells well regardless of its quality, why would there be incentive to improve it.

GW, on the other hand, has a good plot, engaging encounters (the escape with prince rurik is one instance of what I’d consider truly immersive content), and solid stories, which are overall anything but superficial. But most important, the game succeeded at making players feel like actual heroes (instanced gameplay also plays a role there) without tryharding (like that joke of a personal story), while all GW2 does is make you realize your character matters kittenoon as you leave the sanctuary of your personal story because a large share of the content relies on zerging and mass events.

I am not going to say the LS was a stellar story cause obviously it wasnt but it was far from mediocre, it was actually pretty good especially compared with what you generally get in MMOs.

For one the story didnt go with the cliche’ I am doing this for conquest and power and thats already a big plus. Secondly you also had the bad guy (well bad girl) trying to essentially do something noble but going way too overboard with the end justifies the means. Thirdly the story kept you guessing .I mean even now that season 1 is over I am still eager to find out how on earth is waking Mordremoth going to help the sylvari become free of the pale tree’s influence. I am still curious to know what scarlet saw exactly when she peered in the eternal alchemy itself. I am curious to know what the voice she heard really was. Was it Morderemoth influence and if so does that mean that a sleeping elder dragon’s consciousness wonders the eternal alchemy? This also makes me wonder about the pale tree. If you followed the lore and stuff about a year or so ago when the rumors started coming up there might be a 6th dragon based on the crucible of eternity and the green zone there there was a theory that it might actually be the pale tree herself. Of course we now know its not the case but it could be related. it has to be related someway because remember Scarlets ultimate aim is remove the pale’s tree influence on the silvari.

Anyhow Thats about the main plot of the LS but thats not all the story had to offer. It also did a good job at character development at least for the biconic characters. For one they had the courage of actually introducing elements that are controversial in nature and generally games run away from. Same sex relationship, congenital disabilities etc.. Each character has an interesting back story from Marjorie’s brush with political corruption, to kasmeer’s character develop from a seemingly spoiled noble child interested only in partying (the lost shores) to finally be revealed that under that cheerful facade lies a broken character who had to deal with several family hardships from a very young age.

Gw1 story was good true, but I have a feeling a lot of people underestimate what Gw2 LW story had to offer though to be fair I do think the way it was presented by Arenanet needed some work. You had to work hard to experience it all. Talk with all the npcs connected to the living story, read the short stories they released that a lot of people didnt even know about and all that stuff. Even take the initiative and research subjects all over the internet to learn more. Gw1 did a much better job at delivery all of the story to the player thats for sure. But seen in its entirity I do think Gw2 story is just as good as Gw1.

Elitism, yes, I’ve noticed such things … and sadly that is a product of an all-too-human ego. To me it is the DUTY of those who have game experience and who know the game, know the maps and know what is what in Guild Wars 2 to spend time and expend effort helping new players and those who have questions about what to do and where to do it. I spend a lot of my time in newbie areas helping others. I DO NOT try to recruit people into my small guild, nor do I provide them with disinformation. I just answer their questions and I show them around and believe it or not get enormous pleasure out of seeing them enjoying themselves! To me the best reward is one which gives others pleasure. Yesterday for example I spent thirty minutes explaining to a small group of noobs that there was more than one lvl 1-15 region which they could hone their skills in and then took them on a tour of the regions. I accomplished more in thirty minutes than they had in three hours of playing and it is my belief that now that Tyria has been opened up to them they will go on to really enjoy it!

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Stop spreading FUD. GW1 did it, so why can’t GW2. Plus they could keep the store just not have to focus every second of development time on it.

Because of several factors:

1: They have a massively amount of more employees now.
2: GW2 is a MMORPG, GW1 wasn’t, and as such GW2 require much more resources.
3: GW2 is a much bigger game.

So, tell me how they could survive using the same model as GW1 with that information?

Not to mention the fact that GW1 didn’t really work out for long like that either, seeing as they stopped after about 1,5 years with it.

Dragonar.1342:

lordkrall.7241:

Dragonar.1342:

You need to grind for ascended gear (or play REALLY LONG). It gives 5percent more statts and you need it for high lvl FOTM. There is REQUIRED grind. Just not so much.

Yes you need ascended for high level fractals. But you can still see everything from the fractals at lvl 1, and thus you don’t need Ascended to experience any content. And as you said yourself, you can get it, over time, without grinding, and thus it is not forced grind either way.

Yeah 4 years or something? :P

4 years?!

No, just no. It’s very easy to at least make 30g a day in this game by doing diverse content. That way in about 2-3 weeks you should have enough money to get all the mats for ascended gear. You can even craft the damask as you go along to save time.

That’s pretty fast for a set of (rather useless) best armor in the game.

At lordkrall, GW1 is/was better at ’mmo’ing’ that GW2 is – it achieved giving the players the ‘you make a difference’ kind of feel in both pve and pvp, in addition to the nigh endless possibilities how to build your character with virtually NO restraints that typically come with gear-based stats and vertical progression in most mmos.

At GalenGrey, I think you summarize another issue in addition to the wide-spread superficiality (which, I suppose, you do not agree on with me) – there is too. much. fluff. in everything.
Less is more , or the good old K.I.S.S. approach would do much, much good to both GW2 story delivery and armor designs as well as to your manner of making a point.

After all, not many are masochistic enough to “work hard to experience it all” – I have a real job for that, and so do many others. However if the story was one of good/great quality, then I’m certain many, myself included, wouldn’t mind putting in some extra effort to see more of it (I actually put in a whole lot of it in the original NWN, which had fantastic storylines with numerous possibilities), but to “talk with all the npcs connected to the living story, read the short stories they released […], take the initiative and research subjects all over the internet to learn more” is absurd to expect in what I would call a snore fest, or an illusion of content – a whole lot of fluff with little to no actual substance.
The story/content part of the game lost my interest somewhere in the midst of personal story, so there never was a reason for me to journey far into the land of the zergy lag-infested massified content that is the LS, and I am 100% certain I am not missing a single thing worthwhile.

The only two good things about GW1 were PvP and that it didn’t have a monthly fee.

At the time it was the closest thing to an MMO you could have without paying a monthly fee, or be forced to buy stuff from cash shop.

That’s it really.

lordkrall.7241:

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Stop spreading FUD. GW1 did it, so why can’t GW2. Plus they could keep the store just not have to focus every second of development time on it.

Because of several factors:

1: They have a massively amount of more employees now.
2: GW2 is a MMORPG, GW1 wasn’t, and as such GW2 require much more resources.
3: GW2 is a much bigger game.

So, tell me how they could survive using the same model as GW1 with that information?

Not to mention the fact that GW1 didn’t really work out for long like that either, seeing as they stopped after about 1,5 years with it.

1: They have a more employees because they are bigger what also results in more income.
2: And such it attracts more players again resulting in more income.
3: Same a 1.. Yes bigger game so more income.

It’s really funny that you point out that the game is bigger to proof they have higher cost but forget to mention that that in fact also results in higher income, usually resulting in a higher profit!
So if it’s about money they should now have more space then they had with GW1.

The numbers also say it all.
Numbers: https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/151443/1q14_NCSoft.jpg Calculation: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/NcSoft-earnings-1Q-14/page/3#post4029793

That shows that if they used the exact same model (releasing every +- 6 months) they would have earned more. However I don’t expect them to release every 6 months but every year. In that case they would have started to earn more (then the model they now use) at the time they sold the second expansion what now would have been just around the corner.

Lastly the comment that GW1 did not work out. Seriously? The reason you now have GW2 is because of GW1’s success. The reason they build a new game was because they wanted a true MMO with a open world and GW2 could not offer that. But it’s GW1’s success that made that possible.

@KarlaGrey

The you’re making a difference feeling is kinda subjective I dont think it something that can be argued against whether you feel in favor of it or not. So I am skipping over that part. As for building your character i dont agree with that. Gw1 had a lot of atomic skills. IE skills that do something very specific. Example going with a gw1 necro you had Barbed signet that causes bleeding. Blood Drinker that steals health. well of power gives regen to allies. Blood of the master that would heal your minions. In Gw2 skills arent specific they’re more generic. For example my necro has a skill on his staff called Mark of blood that does all the stuff these 4 gw1 skill do individually it all depends on how I use it. In fact I would say my gw2 necro can essentially do everything my gw1 necro can do more or less and 80% of it with a single build! I guess you dont agree with me but to me Gw1 is actually the more restrictive because it only allows you to carry 8 very specific skills.

Wait a second here. If you got an issue with the story it should be because you like story and you’re not finding it. When it comes to story the K.I.S.S. approach doesnt really apply because what makes a good story is generally its complexity. The lord of the rings would not be a better story if it was summerized to “Frodo, a hobbit from the shire was entrusted to destroy this powerful ring created by the evil Sauron. To do this he had to journey to mount doom deep inside mordor and throw the ring in the lava below. Frodo endured a lot of hardship but finally managed to prevail and the thus has saved everyone from a pretty nasty fate.” Ultimately Its the detail around that which makes it a great story.

Now obviously not everyone cares about story and Arenanet understand that which is why they hid most of the story in npc conversation and such. I am not going to look for it but pretty sure they stated that in a few interviews. If you’re a person who values action then you can skip all of that and enjoy the action. If you love the story you can discover part of it naturally while talking to people (npc) and part of it reading short stories outside the game.

Excuse me I dont mean to be disrespectful but if you didnt experiance 90% of the story how exactly can you claim its a snore fest? Again if what you see of the lord of the rings is the mega super summary I provided above one might very well come to the conclusion its a snore fest but in truth its far from that!

imo, the main problem of this game is the lack of specified drops. in every mmo, the ‘end game content’ is usually a couple of hard dungeons. tho some people would argue the ‘hard’ part, there’s still a couple of dungeons in the game that’s also arguably ‘end game’. problem is, the actual purpose of these dungeons for players is the daily bounty of 1g+. aside from the specific dungeon armor/weapons that are obtainable using tokens from each dungeon, there’s nothing else worth doing them for. nothing that you can work towards since the exotic weapons and the precursors are random drops. imo a specific but low drop rate is better than the current system. since it’s a global drop, they think the freakishly low droprate is justified. personally, id be more motivated if in the dungeon im doing or if the boss im grinding is sure to drop the item im working towards. the droprate can be low sure but thinking that eventually it will drop will surely motivate anyone. if they are worrying about people just mindlessly grinding a single dungeon, then lol make more items that will interest people to grind other dungeons. a precursor in arah, an exclusive ascended cape in ascalon, flame dragon wings in fire citadel etc. imo there are more stuff that people dont care about than items that people are seriously willing to grind atm.

another thing, when are they gonna add actual new items? not just items that increase the stat bonus by a miniscule amount. items that have stats that actually change the way people play. like maybe a hammer that gives a heal/radius bonus to warrior shouts to further justify a heal warrior build? or an armor that reflects conditions? or a weapon that transforms the condition you deal into a single damage hit that increases until the condition ticker is removed or you detonate it using a certain skill. something that actually makes people want to create different builds that synergize with items.

Xenon.4537:

Yes ascended is best in slot, but the difference between a full set of exotic and a full set of ascended is often less than a single socket jewel.

Incorrect. I think you have the wron numbers on the stats on equipment. A jewel sets for 55 attribute points (25+15+15). A full ascended set has 248 more stat point, 2647 (including Wvw infusions) vs 2399 for exotic, or aprox 10%. It also has 50 more damage (5%) and 50 more armor (5%).

You don’t need it to play 95% of the content in the game.

You can do most of the game in rare’s. But you do need best-in-slot for the more demanding formats, unless you enjoy getting downed/stomped more. Unfortunately the part where you can get along with rare quality items is also the part that has the shortest live-span, about the length of the personal story plus some exploration. While this may be a large part in area ‘surface’, it is also a relatively small part in playing time, at least for some.

Devata.6589:

Lastly the comment that GW1 did not work out. Seriously? The reason you now have GW2 is because of GW1’s success. The reason they build a new game was because they wanted a true MMO with a open world and GW2 could not offer that. But it’s GW1’s success that made that possible.

This, so much this.

Galen Grey.4709:

As for building your character i dont agree with that. Gw1 had a lot of atomic skills. IE skills that do something very specific. Example going with a gw1 necro you had Barbed signet that causes bleeding. Blood Drinker that steals health. well of power gives regen to allies. Blood of the master that would heal your minions. In Gw2 skills arent specific they’re more generic. For example my necro has a skill on his staff called Mark of blood that does all the stuff these 4 gw1 skill do individually it all depends on how I use it. In fact I would say my gw2 necro can essentially do everything my gw1 necro can do more or less and 80% of it with a single build! I guess you dont agree with me but to me Gw1 is actually the more restrictive because it only allows you to carry 8 very specific skills.

You missed my point completely – GW1 allowed you to use 1 set of gear for ANY build (you only really had to change the headpiece), because stats weren’t tied to gear. THAT is true freedom of building and experimenting, while in GW2, not only are you limited by your gear, but also by the type of weapon you choose (and the more subpar skills a weap consists of, the less it will be used). So you end up with twice as many restrictions to the freedom of building (and especially, using a variety of builds). Also, the fact skills on GW only did one or two things at a time helped prevent power creep – having one skill do 3 effects+hidden triggers from runes or passives is abysmal to balance and just plain bad for the overall gameplay, especially in pvp. Once again, simplicity is king – what skill you used on GW1 mattered a whole lot more, because skills actually ‘did stuff’ – had immediate and noticeable effects when used correctly – unlike the spam fast you have here.

Also, I can do SO more as a necro on GW1, then I could on GW2 where condition control, physical and sometimes caster shutdown, and buff (boon/enchantement) control fall into domain of several classes, most of which are better at it than the necro himself. In essence, you’re just another damage dealer with slightily different (worse) class mechanics to differentiate it from other classes.
Again, just because you could only carry 8 skills does not mean you could do less – it’s where your team comes into play, you know. Shocking, inorite.

Galen Grey.4709:

Wait a second here. If you got an issue with the story it should be because you like story and you’re not finding it. When it comes to story the K.I.S.S. approach doesnt really apply because what makes a good story is generally its complexity.

The KISS approach was used in reference to story delivery, not only depth. Cut the strawmanning. Also, complexity does not equal depth, and detail does not necessarily translate to complexity in a positive sense.

Galen Grey.4709:

Excuse me I dont mean to be disrespectful but if you didnt experiance 90% of the story how exactly can you claim its a snore fest? Again if what you see of the lord of the rings is the mega super summary I provided above one might very well come to the conclusion its a snore fest but in truth its far from that!

I don’t mean to be disrespectful either, but not everyone is a masochist – I don’t need to endure hours and days of boredom to realize the main direction of the game. When the personal story – which hails the player as the hero of all and everything – is done in a manner which only irritates and bores one out of their minds, one surely won’t expect the zerg and mass events to deliver a better experience, unless your brain is shorthanded in the common sense department, or you’re a die-hard fanboi/apologist.

Like you OP, I no longer have any desire to play the launch content. I’ve long since gotten the dungeon sets I’m interested in, the legendary I wanted, leveled all the classes and races I wanted, and generally had my fill of map completing and even WvW.

If ANet were to release an expansion, I would gobble up that content within a few months and then be bored once again. The only reason I’m still here is Living World. Whether this content is most often temporary or permanent isn’t the issue, IMO, because the model creates a permanent source of temporary content. That appeals to me, even now that we’re seeing repeats of temporary content we’ve had already. The only rough times are when the update cycle goes on hiatus, like the first quarter/half of 2014. Massively bored.

Facepunch.5710:

Like you OP, I no longer have any desire to play the launch content. I’ve long since gotten the dungeon sets I’m interested in, the legendary I wanted, leveled all the classes and races I wanted, and generally had my fill of map completing and even WvW.

If ANet were to release an expansion, I would gobble up that content within a few months and then be bored once again. The only reason I’m still here is Living World. Whether this content is most often temporary or permanent isn’t the issue, IMO, because the model creates a permanent source of temporary content. That appeals to me, even now that we’re seeing repeats of temporary content we’ve had already. The only rough times are when the update cycle goes on hiatus, like the first quarter/half of 2014. Massively bored.

Thats funny I feel completely opposite to the LS, the breaks is when I have more fun.

With the other content I still have more then enough to do. Have no craft at max level, no map completion, only one lvl 80 (another one almost) and no PS completed. Many because it required a boring from of game-play (gold-grind) and World-completion is skipping of a list.
Because I did not like to do the gold grindy stuff I was always in low supplies of gold so then you will also not play on an lower level alt because whatever you do there rewards even less gold.
Also no legendary but I did stack up on a lot of crap so might in fact be close to getting one if I really wanted… except for the gold-part what is like 50%+ of the legendary.

I do however have many hours in the game mainly spending it in other ways (JP’s, doing stuff with the guild and so on). The LS did have some content in them but overall I don’t like the pressure of having to play or lose out on it forever. The 3 breaks we have had so far have been much more fun and there is still enough to do for me in the game but the way you do most of it is just to boring for me.

In a way it makes sense. If you like the grind or striping of a list then you would have completed the stuff in the game pretty soon and might in fact like what the LS offers.

@KarlaGrey

are you sure you’re not forgetting to factor in Runes in your statement? But yes even with Runes gear was eaiser to manage in Gw1 thats true.

People play gw2 classes primarily as a damage dealer because they choose to. I play mine primarily in a support role and have plenty of skills to help me with that. As for the balance argument I dont know, I wouldnt imagine so since Anet themselves state one of the reason why they changed the skill system to what it is in Gw2 was cause its easier to balance.

Okey fair enough, so what specific detail in LW story did you find superflous? which part of it had unnecessary detail exactly? cause I am getting really confused how by your own statement you skipped over all the story and at the same time you’re saying its mediocre, unnecessary complex and full of fluff.

So wait what you’re saying is if x is boring then obviously so is y even though there is hardly any relation between x and y. is that objective in your mind? Like say in Gw1 getting maximum rank in titles was grindy so should one assume all of the game is grindy because of that? not just that but then state that for a fact and argue how getting Best in slot in guild wars 1 was so grindy based on the simple reason that I found maxing ranks grindy? And then its us who defend what we love that arent being objective and we keep being called white knights, fanboies, apologists and god knows what else?

Also small clarification. I went through all this, loved every second of it and I assure you no masochism of any kind was involved.

Galen Grey.4709:

stuff

From your posts, I can only assume that ANet is always right and that they can do nothing wrong in any way whatsoever.

The blatant fanboyism is just getting obnoxious. Yes, I understand that there are a lot of people out there who are absolutely in love with this game and have no fault with GW2’s current state. However, you need to acknowledge that there are also a lot of players out there who are simply bored to tears with this game because no real, substantial updates that offer increased depth and variety have been introduced since release.

The biweekly achievement list farmfest and Gem Store updates are not cutting it for me anymore.

P.S. – If ANet isn’t paying you to post positive feedback on the forums, they definitely should because you’re making a full-time job out of this.

Lordkrall, it looks like you’re out-numbered. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but that doesn’t make everyone’s opinion right.

I quit GW2 for well over a year. I came back recently and found it the same as I left it. In other words, I can add new mud flaps to my car, and hang a pine tree air freshener from the rear-view mirror but its still the same car. Nobody is going to offer more money for it due to my “improvements.”

I’ve always thought that GW1 was better than GW2. I like the graphics and the game play better. GW2 looks “cartoony” to me, while GW1 seemed more realistic. In GW2, I build a character to level 80 and then abandon it and start another. Sorry, I’m not cool, I’m not anywhere near the best player … I’m probably very average when it comes to skill but I don’t mind since I’m only playing for FUN, and when it is no longer fun, then I just don’t play.

Like most players, I play solo. I don’t want to join a group. I don’t want to be told that I need more players in my group in order to complete anything, including dungeons. This means that some parts of GW2 are not win-able or playable for me (remember I’m very average). I get killed immediately and just can’t play them. So, I don’t do dungeons and I don’t join festivals and I don’t look for friends online in the game.

Since coming back to GW2, I’ve built a Mesmer, and two Necros (one human, one Norn). I think the Mesmer is the most fun to play, but I’ve mostly abandoned it. New skins and dyes are nice but they won’t keep me playing. So, a new festival is coming out? That’s nice. What’s on TV tonight?

Stevizard.4926:

Lordkrall, it looks like you’re out-numbered. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but that doesn’t make everyone’s opinion right.

But just because a place which is known to have a majority of “haters” outnumber a certain opinion doesn’t mean that said opinion is wrong.

I mean, there were a majority that voted for Hitler as leader of Germany, and I wouldn’t say that Hitler was a “right” choice.

lordkrall.7241:

Stevizard.4926:

Lordkrall, it looks like you’re out-numbered. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but that doesn’t make everyone’s opinion right.

But just because a place which is known to have a majority of “haters” outnumber a certain opinion doesn’t mean that said opinion is wrong.

I mean, there were a majority that voted for Hitler as leader of Germany, and I wouldn’t say that Hitler was a “right” choice.

Time to invoke Godwin’s Law. You lose the internet.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Time to invoke Godwin’s Law. You lose the internet.

I know, I know

But it was a rather good example for this very case.
I suppose I could have used Bush as well