Guild Wars 2

Ok so in a recent update traits and skills got a major overhaul. While I like they style I am dismayed at the reduced choice.

Firstly I now only have 3 traits to choose from per slot where previously I could use lesser traits in the higher slots.

Secondly now I have to unlock all the traits skills before I can use any of them. Where as before I could use them as I unlocked them.

Thirdly now I can only unlock traits in a specific order where previously I was able to unlock the ones I needed before unlocking the others.

Fourthly now I am restricted to using only 3 trait lines where previously I could have traits active in a 5 lines if I chose to.

While I understand the need to make things easier to balance for PvP there are some of us who only PvE. These changes restrict the way we play compared to pre patch. I now have to change the way I play on several characters that I have played the same way since their creation.

Please, can’t you just do seperate balancing for PvE and PvP so the balancing need of one does not negatively impact on the other?

I don’t see how this stops you “playing your way” it might give you less choice in some respect, but you can max 3 lines now. You could only max 2 in the old system. So you could argue that this system give you more choice. You personally don’t like it as its changed things and you clearly don’t like change. Things in MMO’s change constantly. Things will probably keep changing till the story of GW2 is done. GW1 had balance up dates right untill the end of the games active development life. So if you don’t like change, you might be better off in a different game.

Not saying I agree with the OP however it seems to me responses are unnecessarily unhelpful / unfriendly.
The way I read it, the OP would like more choice, as in far more choice. Any infringement of that warrants expressing some frustration. Also a good time to advocate for more of what you want…
As I say I don’t have a position on the OP. I would however say that we are the customers & should be asking for what we want. The OP was classier about that than the responses.

I agree with both Tonori and BrotherBelial.
I can understand why the loss of some elements might frustrate, OTOH as BrotherBelial said they effectively gave you 4 more trait points (in the old system), and that’s a whole lot of additional effect-combinations which opened up.

A simple example is PU Shatter. Wasn’t possible before because you could not max Chaos, get 4/6 in Duelling and max Illusions, so you lost a lot of power either by not having DE, IP or PU. Now you can have all 3. The whole idea of a PU shatter mesmer didn’t really exist before this patch.

First take in account that a lot of traits got merged and buffed. Plus we got some traits made in to baseline. That means that a large group of options are still been posible to get, just that in one trait now.

With the adition that in most cases they have been conveniently grouped so you dont need to split too much and get uselles specializations for what you are building.

Gona give you some examples in the case of mesmers (since i have more than 3.5 k hours as it -.- )

Mantra:
Used to have 4 traits related: Harmonius mantras (3 times use mantras), 20% lower cd mantras, Empowered mantras (4% extra damage per mantra chanelled), chanelling mantras give you toughness.

Now chanelling mantras give you toughness as base line and the other three are grouped in a lone grandmaster tier trait in the Dueling specialization. Before all this traits were in different specs and you need to give up a lot to have them.

Signets
There was 3 signet related, one lowering the coldowns in 20%, one cleaning conditions and one giving distortion when using a signet.

That makes the necesity of having more than 3 speciallizations go way lower, specially because for every old option you got with the 4 or 5th specialization you get a much powerfull and important grandmaster and/or master tier trait.

This make that we now see a lot of strong builds instead of some litle pieces of intends to crafting builds, that could never be because of the dispersion of the old system and the litle impact a lot of traits had.

For example now a mesmer that wants to have utilities like mantras or signets, can have them with easy without needing to give up too much in traits that alone werent really meaningfull.

As such the quantity of builds that can aford having mantras and/or sigils as a main component of them are bigger.

This means now that we can have more built variety because instead for example of have shatter builds, phantom builds, mantra buildsand signet builds (im not putting lockdowns and dead clones- last one died last patch or pu- specially since someone alredy explained the later), we can have shatter (normals, mantra, signet) and phantom (normals, mantra signet).

Meaning that they just added less main trend builds but give us more variation in them, specially since we have the opportunity to get most of the less powerfull main traits builds (prepatch) in another more powerfull main build.

Plus take in account that the numbers of choice we have passed from 14 (counting passives) to 18, that makes more traits elections to choice of a lesser pull of options that normally englove more options that we could have elected before.

So, basically they make a lot of builds viables of the exchange to lose a litle group of builds; but giving us more variety in how to customizate this viables builds instead of just one or to variations that were according to what we were traiting.

This in fact not only make the size of builds bigger but also stronger, to a point were having a x type of build will not make you significativly weaker, witch encouraged most of the people to going to another build.

What we got with this patch was that a large group of players can see options that before were unviable for them, so we got more effective possibilities of “Play how you want”.

The side effect its that all the changes messed up the entire balance in pvp, so its not really a lets balance pvp patch -.- . In fact the whole condition change its much more pve oriented.

the reason for those whom don’t understand " play your way" its the choices we make while building our toons. We are not moaning we are letting Anet know we are unsatisfied with their choices at the moment. We do this so maybe they understand why a lot of us are leaving the game and actually giving them the option to fix it. players whom have played for a long time really don’t want to give up on them, they just want them to realize that some changes are not wanted nor needed and costing them time , effort and money to fix and that causes loss of many players.

How can people still complain about this? Every proffesion has way more options now to make a good build. If you can’t make yourself a decent build now, then idk what to say to you.

The responses are unhelpful mostly because they are wrong
1) banners got nerfed, there is no area increaser
2) If you still go banners you are forced into rifle, if you use shouts you are forced to use bows.

I used the zephyr skin on my bow, I like bows. Now I have to buy and use a rifle
I hate guns in MMO I don’t like using them

This is NOT increase in choice, this is not more versatility in builds. This is a decrease in options.

Why is this hard to understand and just put down as QQ, yeah kitten it I will QQ about it because I build the character the way I like it. Why is that a cause for debate even?

I’ve not heard a response that couldn’t be summarised as “I’m all right Jack, therefore you’re just whining”

While I am not trying to sound like I’m QQing about the traits, because honestly I see both the good and bad, I do agree with OP. One of the most lucrative things about GW2 from the beginning was the statement/promise “play your way”. Now I get that can be interpeted many ways, and that’s not my point. My point is since launch we have seen a growing trend in more limits and more constraints. I am concerned where this will end up.

The reasons are all sound too. NPE, PvP/WvW balancing, just mixing things up, etc. . . Maybe someday the devs will just decide things will be simpler and easier for all if there just 3 defined builds for each class and you choose one of those 3. I know it sound ridiculous, but if you were to track things on a continuum since launch, I think we are much more closer to that end point then we were at the beginning.

wildcode.5403:

Ok so in a recent update traits and skills got a major overhaul. While I like they style I am dismayed at the reduced choice.
….

ANET threw out that motto after launch. Now it’s “Play how we want you to play.”

They are putting a new trait system and they are going to build on top of it to add more choices. It has only been out for a little bit. And some of the old traits that got combined were simply bad or didn’t work well. So combining them together is a plus.

I think here “play your way” is being taken out of context. If it was truly play your way about your build, it would have been create your own traits. Place your own stat combos on your armor.

But it wasn’t. We have specific traits and specific stat combos on armor.

Play how you want was talking about how you can pretty much do anything and still progress in the game. You could just go out and collect mats and craft and not worry about the hearts for the most part or the personal story or the dungeons or WvW. That most hearts have multiple means to complete them.

SirDrygan.1823:

wildcode.5403:

Ok so in a recent update traits and skills got a major overhaul. While I like they style I am dismayed at the reduced choice.
….

ANET threw out that motto after launch. Now it’s “Play how we want you to play.”

It has always been ‘play how we want you to play’, the idea of some kind of complete freedom is something people with poor comprehension skills made up.

Technically you “can” still play how you want. No one’s holding you back. But people choose to follow builds, which is is best skills, runes, sigils, boss timers, metas so it ruins the whole “play your way” motto. But it’s also playing their way too right?

This trait setup is the best we’ve had to date, I really hope Anet don’t listen to all the mistaken people complaining.

you can play it your own way, if it is played just how ANet say….

Tonori.1483:

Not saying I agree with the OP however it seems to me responses are unnecessarily unhelpful / unfriendly.
The way I read it, the OP would like more choice, as in far more choice. Any infringement of that warrants expressing some frustration. Also a good time to advocate for more of what you want…
As I say I don’t have a position on the OP. I would however say that we are the customers & should be asking for what we want. The OP was classier about that than the responses.

The response are re unnecessarily unhelpful / unfriendly because the OP isn’t asking for any help and seems that he’s complaining about a problem that doesn’t exist. It’s still play how you want; in fact, now that traits no longer hold stats, the design is even more flexible and friendly to using what ever build you see fit and having less angst from certain portion of the population.

You also still have choice. Less? Maybe, but from where I sit, it’s less but more meaningful instead of more and meaningless choice.

You won’t be able to change their minds about this. They found something changed in a way they didn’t like and haven’t gotten used to it yet. Give it time. In a few weeks, couple months tops, they will wonder why this wasn’t done sooner, if not from day one. Seen it before, will see it again, and I will be entertained by the griping.

goes and gets more popcorn

Notice it’s the Mesmer’s whom love and praise the new system? Don’t worry your nerf is imminent

For the OP, yes I have to agree the Dev’s are trying to force play styles too much with this patch.

shhhh, mesmers finally get some love after being tormented for years with infinite nerfs, low defense and slow speeds, and you get nervous ? don’t hate!

I agree with the OP. Choices got reduced dramatically. I play mostly PvP and I don’t like the new system at all!

Just a simple example: For warrior (under discipline), I cannot have the trait (Warrior’s sprint) to run faster (while using melee weapons) at the same time as the trait (Crack shot) which reduces the recharge of rifles. I always used a melee weapon as my alternative set. As as result, the new system limits my style of play. If anyone can explain to me how I can have both these traits now, I would be grateful!

Also, all the changes that ANET is making to GW2 clearly indicates to me that they are soon going to port GW2 to the next gen consoles (Xbox One/PS4 and beyond), as a wheel-like/icon-based interface is easily usable on a console based controller.

Valid choices were increased, worthless choices decreased. This is a good thing.

Coulter.2315:

Valid choices were increased, worthless choices decreased. This is a good thing.

It wasn’t the trait change that made more “valid” choices, it was the change to conditions and how they are handled. They could’ve done that WITHOUT changing the trait system.

That being said the trait system change is PURELY about pvp 5 man group balancing. Period.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Coulter.2315:

Valid choices were increased, worthless choices decreased. This is a good thing.

It wasn’t the trait change that made more “valid” choices, it was the change to conditions and how they are handled. They could’ve done that WITHOUT changing the trait system.

That being said the trait system change is PURELY about pvp 5 man group balancing. Period.

That might all be true, but that doesn’t change the point he’s making.

What happened to people not quoting catch phrases and twisting it to mean something other than was was originally said. Play your way has never meant that you can do every single thing you want to do no matter what it is, period. That’s not what Anet was talking about.

What they were talking about was being rewarded for doing different things without being forced into running dungeons or raids. If you WvW you still can get rewards and make progression in the game. If you want to level in PvP you now can.

Otherwise you could say that the argument is I want weapon swapping to unlock at level 2, I don’t want to be downleveled when I go to lower level zones and I want all dungeons and fractals to be soloable. Play your way was never meant that every single thing in the game would suit every player.

Anet makes decisions based on what’s good for the game,. but within the context of that, you can still level in multiple ways. You can do some crafting, you can WvW, run edge of the mists, clear zones…and when Anet used that phrase, that’s what they were talking about.

They weren’t talking about traits, or skills.

No one is understanding what was meant by “play your way”, I guess. It didn’t mean you got the freedom to take as many trait lines as you want to, it didn’t mean there wouldn’t be a meta, because this is made by the players. The concept of “play your way” was that there isn’t a determined role for each profession in this game.

Looking at gw1, each profession had a role. Elementalist has to be a DD, warriors were tanks, monks were healers and so on. What about gw2? All professions got the ability to do any role they want to. You want to play a support thief? You can do so. Wanna be an bunker elementalist? No problem.

That’s it, you can play every role you want to with every profession you want to.

the evil sinister man at the dark desk pets the cat on his lap and laughs quietly to himself and inaudibly remarks “you play my way buhahaha!”

the specialisations are not done there will be more updates to it

“Just a simple example: For warrior (under discipline), I cannot have the trait (Warrior’s sprint) to run faster (while using melee weapons) at the same time as the trait (Crack shot) which reduces the recharge of rifles.”

Exactly! Using banners means you have to use rifles as ranged, so therefore banner users cannot use sprint.

Awful patch. Specialisation system needs to be thrown away and revert to old system

> What happened to “Play your way”?

It was willfully misinterpreted and kittenized by a few hundred different players to mean any variation of, “You don’t get to dictate to me what I can and can’t do!” Welcome to the fold.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Coulter.2315:

Valid choices were increased, worthless choices decreased. This is a good thing.

It wasn’t the trait change that made more “valid” choices, it was the change to conditions and how they are handled. They could’ve done that WITHOUT changing the trait system.

That being said the trait system change is PURELY about pvp 5 man group balancing. Period.

Yes, the game is balanced around tPvP, the most important thing to balance (if you’re going to do the nonsplit system – which is another argument).

The new trait system removed invalid choices while adding valid choices. Its a good change.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Coulter.2315:

Valid choices were increased, worthless choices decreased. This is a good thing.

It wasn’t the trait change that made more “valid” choices, it was the change to conditions and how they are handled. They could’ve done that WITHOUT changing the trait system.

That being said the trait system change is PURELY about pvp 5 man group balancing. Period.

PvP not withstanding the change to conditions is only one aspect of the many changes to valid choices. Most if not all of the traits that remain are worthwhile and have a direct impact either on how you play or in beneficially augmenting your play. In the old system there were droves of traits, at all tiers, that were never worth using for any character for any reason.

“Play your way” was marched into the street and executed 5 minutes after launch.

I’m not saying anything is balanced, but when has it been?

When Zerk was the plain meta, those wanting to play condition classes were always complaining that playing a condition class was worthless and they wanted things to change. And rightfully so. Conditions were easily taken care of and did squat for the most part.

Now that conditions are viable (and probably OP) the direct damage people are up in arms.

Surely after all this time there can be some kind of balance where everyone can do impressive damage yet balanced so you can play any type of class you want and be happy.

dragonfighter.4098:

the reason for those whom don’t understand " play your way" its the choices we make while building our toons. We are not moaning we are letting Anet know we are unsatisfied with their choices at the moment. We do this so maybe they understand why a lot of us are leaving the game and actually giving them the option to fix it. players whom have played for a long time really don’t want to give up on them, they just want them to realize that some changes are not wanted nor needed and costing them time , effort and money to fix and that causes loss of many players.

No, “Play your way” means you can get anything in the game by playing how you want. Some ways take longer than others, but you do not “have to do” any thing in game you don’t want to. That is what “Play your way” means. Not what you want it to mean.

wildcode.5403:

Ok so in a recent update traits and skills got a major overhaul. While I like they style I am dismayed at the reduced choice.

Firstly I now only have 3 traits to choose from per slot where previously I could use lesser traits in the higher slots.

Secondly now I have to unlock all the traits skills before I can use any of them. Where as before I could use them as I unlocked them.

Thirdly now I can only unlock traits in a specific order where previously I was able to unlock the ones I needed before unlocking the others.

Fourthly now I am restricted to using only 3 trait lines where previously I could have traits active in a 5 lines if I chose to.

While I understand the need to make things easier to balance for PvP there are some of us who only PvE. These changes restrict the way we play compared to pre patch. I now have to change the way I play on several characters that I have played the same way since their creation.

Please, can’t you just do seperate balancing for PvE and PvP so the balancing need of one does not negatively impact on the other?

It has always been “Play your way” with your way being “Anets Way”!

People can say “play as you want” is taken out of context and doesn’t mean what they think it means but that does not change the FACT that the game has a fraction of the amount of freedom that the game had at launch. You can defend the changes all you want but it is a lie to say that the game has not lost much of its “play you want” feel. Maybe you like less choice and think it will make the game more balanced or just like things easier with less theory crafting but please defend it on its actual merits and not by saying that the change from “play how you want” to “play how arenanet wants” isn’t happening. Because it is happening and you defenders of the change kitten well know it.

I can’t play my way, otherwise my Thief would have a main-hand Torch and deflect attacks with a Parrying Dagger off-hand instead of using stealth and riposte with a fireball through the torso like Scorpion’s new fatality.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

People can say “play as you want” is taken out of context and doesn’t mean what they think it means but that does not change the FACT that the game has a fraction of the amount of freedom that the game had at launch. You can defend the changes all you want but it is a lie to say that the game has not lost much of its “play you want” feel. Maybe you like less choice and think it will make the game more balanced or just like things easier with less theory crafting but please defend it on its actual merits and not by saying that the change from “play how you want” to “play how arenanet wants” isn’t happening. Because it is happening and you defenders of the change kitten well know it.

Exactly what can’t you do that you could at launch?

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

People can say “play as you want” is taken out of context and doesn’t mean what they think it means but that does not change the FACT that the game has a fraction of the amount of freedom that the game had at launch. You can defend the changes all you want but it is a lie to say that the game has not lost much of its “play you want” feel. Maybe you like less choice and think it will make the game more balanced or just like things easier with less theory crafting but please defend it on its actual merits and not by saying that the change from “play how you want” to “play how arenanet wants” isn’t happening. Because it is happening and you defenders of the change kitten well know it.

^This. I’m with you. Let’s be honest, “Play Your Way” is playing how you want to within the confines of what we are given to play with. Now, however, the freedom we had to chose has been slashed quite a bit.

Even with new Elite Trait Lines coming, you can still only choose three lines and not some from each.

Coulter.2315:

Valid choices were increased, worthless choices decreased. This is a good thing.

This is probably true, but it’s also true many perfectly valid choices were removed.

I miss the ability to take 2 master traits from the same line. I use to do that pretty frequently, and I don’t understand why that choice had to be removed. Reading other folk’s comments, seems this is a common source of conflict.

serialkicker.5274:

How can people still complain about this? Every proffesion has way more options now to make a good build. If you can’t make yourself a decent build now, then idk what to say to you.

I don’t think you understand the concept of “way more options”. This isn’t about finding “a” decent build, it’s about choice and the freedoms to experiment and to be unconventional.

Under the old system, I make it that there were 138 MILLION distinct possible ways to allocate a full spread of 14 trait points (it’s possible I made a slip or two in calculating that – but the order of magnitude, at the very least, is most definitely correct).

Now? 270.

And, sure, the vast majority of the old ones were undoubtedly ineffective rubbish, and most of the new ones are pretty reasonable. But if you’re seriously saying that you think the GW2 community was previously incapable of finding more than 270 decent builds in that vast ocean of possibilities? I’d have to say that – to put it politely – you’re living in a different universe to me.

What’s changed is that it’s harder now to make a really bad build. And that’s OK, up to a point, especially for raw beginners – but only to a point, because experienced players deserve more latitude to fail. And if you follow the concept of preventing “bad” builds to its logical conclusion (reductio ad absurdum), you simply get the devs to find one spec that pretty much works, then give it to everyone – and I doubt anyone would argue that that’s a good idea.

Edit: Corrected the old total; was using the incorrect number of Master-level traits.

serialkicker.5274:

How can people still complain about this? Every proffesion has way more options now to make a good build. If you can’t make yourself a decent build now, then idk what to say to you.

people have run the math. there are literally less build options availible now. this is a simple immutable fact. i feel the pain of the “we lost play your way” crowd. i posted a similar thread about how this update made 20+ characters’ builds(MY builds) unrecreatable. my main a rez engine ret dmg tank for wvw was able to be recovered to 75% of what he was. but it cost me 100g+ and 70 ectos. this was just because of the stat change. would it have been so hard for anet to given us a one time stat change on our gear instead of charging us a ludicrous amount of gold just to deal with this update?
on the trait note 1-2 charcters per class can now play the only useful builds in each class. i had 4 level 80 wars all with differnt fun builds. now all my wars read the same. Max trait line for weapon/max trait line for healing/max trait line for utility.
they have taken the spectrum of build “colors” as it were and replaced it with a black and white min/maxer system. i have been with gw1 sense initial NA release of prophecies. i buy from gem shop to support them including my 20+ character slots that are now useless(thanks for taking my money and then reducing what i bought to garbage) i also buy 2 of every expansion they have made.(one for me and one for my wife) but that too won’t be happening unless we see a rollback update or an announcement of a minimum 5 new trait lines for each class. my wife who has enjoyed playing with me all these years has all but stopped playing because they ruined the one character she played. i think it says something about the direction of the game when they chase off so many original gw players who have supported this company for years(as mentioned above even financially) again i’ve said my piece let your unhelpful hate posts spew forth.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

People can say “play as you want” is taken out of context and doesn’t mean what they think it means but that does not change the FACT that the game has a fraction of the amount of freedom that the game had at launch. You can defend the changes all you want but it is a lie to say that the game has not lost much of its “play you want” feel. Maybe you like less choice and think it will make the game more balanced or just like things easier with less theory crafting but please defend it on its actual merits and not by saying that the change from “play how you want” to “play how arenanet wants” isn’t happening. Because it is happening and you defenders of the change kitten well know it.

Ok sure. Before the change, you could max 2 lines. With the change you can max 3. Some traits where combined, and some where buffed. So you have not really lost anything. They have been added or moved so they balance a line as to not make one line a must have. Although people will start throwing “Meta” around to justify how a build is a must have over others.

I do not see how these changes have stopped anyone from being able to do the content they want. Saying you can’t play the content you want to because of the changes is a lie, and that’s the only “FACT” this thread has to concern it’s self with. Everything else is personal opinion.

Warlock.7136:

serialkicker.5274:

How can people still complain about this? Every proffesion has way more options now to make a good build. If you can’t make yourself a decent build now, then idk what to say to you.

people have run the math. there are literally less build options availible now. this is a simple immutable fact. i feel the pain of the “we lost play your way” crowd. i posted a similar thread about how this update made 20+ characters’ builds(MY builds) unrecreatable. my main a rez engine ret dmg tank for wvw was able to be recovered to 75% of what he was. but it cost me 100g+ and 70 ectos. this was just because of the stat change. would it have been so hard for anet to given us a one time stat change on our gear instead of charging us a ludicrous amount of gold just to deal with this update?
on the trait note 1-2 charcters per class can now play the only useful builds in each class. i had 4 level 80 wars all with differnt fun builds. now all my wars read the same. Max trait line for weapon/max trait line for healing/max trait line for utility.
they have taken the spectrum of build “colors” as it were and replaced it with a black and white min/maxer system. i have been with gw1 sense initial NA release of prophecies. i buy from gem shop to support them including my 20+ character slots that are now useless(thanks for taking my money and then reducing what i bought to garbage) i also buy 2 of every expansion they have made.(one for me and one for my wife) but that too won’t be happening unless we see a rollback update or an announcement of a minimum 5 new trait lines for each class. my wife who has enjoyed playing with me all these years has all but stopped playing because they ruined the one character she played. i think it says something about the direction of the game when they chase off so many original gw players who have supported this company for years(as mentioned above even financially) again i’ve said my piece let your unhelpful hate posts spew forth.

Personal opinion. I’ve not had to change any of my gear. But if you are a slave to other peoples interpretations of “usable” builds that’s your problem and not a reflection of the changes.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

People can say “play as you want” is taken out of context and doesn’t mean what they think it means but that does not change the FACT that the game has a fraction of the amount of freedom that the game had at launch. You can defend the changes all you want but it is a lie to say that the game has not lost much of its “play you want” feel. Maybe you like less choice and think it will make the game more balanced or just like things easier with less theory crafting but please defend it on its actual merits and not by saying that the change from “play how you want” to “play how arenanet wants” isn’t happening. Because it is happening and you defenders of the change kitten well know it.

Ok sure. Before the change, you could max 2 lines. With the change you can max 3. Some traits where combined, and some where buffed. So you have not really lost anything. They have been added or moved so they balance a line as to not make one line a must have. Although people will start throwing “Meta” around to justify how a build is a must have over others.

I do not see how these changes have stopped anyone from being able to do the content they want. Saying you can’t play the content you want to because of the changes is a lie, and that’s the only “FACT” this thread has to concern it’s self with. Everything else is personal opinion.

Warlock.7136:

serialkicker.5274:

How can people still complain about this? Every proffesion has way more options now to make a good build. If you can’t make yourself a decent build now, then idk what to say to you.

people have run the math. there are literally less build options availible now. this is a simple immutable fact. i feel the pain of the “we lost play your way” crowd. i posted a similar thread about how this update made 20+ characters’ builds(MY builds) unrecreatable. my main a rez engine ret dmg tank for wvw was able to be recovered to 75% of what he was. but it cost me 100g+ and 70 ectos. this was just because of the stat change. would it have been so hard for anet to given us a one time stat change on our gear instead of charging us a ludicrous amount of gold just to deal with this update?
on the trait note 1-2 charcters per class can now play the only useful builds in each class. i had 4 level 80 wars all with differnt fun builds. now all my wars read the same. Max trait line for weapon/max trait line for healing/max trait line for utility.
they have taken the spectrum of build “colors” as it were and replaced it with a black and white min/maxer system. i have been with gw1 sense initial NA release of prophecies. i buy from gem shop to support them including my 20+ character slots that are now useless(thanks for taking my money and then reducing what i bought to garbage) i also buy 2 of every expansion they have made.(one for me and one for my wife) but that too won’t be happening unless we see a rollback update or an announcement of a minimum 5 new trait lines for each class. my wife who has enjoyed playing with me all these years has all but stopped playing because they ruined the one character she played. i think it says something about the direction of the game when they chase off so many original gw players who have supported this company for years(as mentioned above even financially) again i’ve said my piece let your unhelpful hate posts spew forth.

Personal opinion. I’ve not had to change any of my gear. But if you are a slave to other peoples interpretations of “usable” builds that’s your problem and not a reflection of the changes.

it is the meta we “rebel” against. the only definition of useable that i am saying is basically any build that doesn’t have a trait line that is just because we had to choose 3. that is to say that at least half the traits in that line are “useable”(affect the builds skills). i have never played meta i never will. if you used partial trait lines or stats not found in the combinations that gear allow, then you will feel the lack of fun in what you have been forced to do to characters you spent alot of time on. If lack of fun is better terminology for you then “play your way” then read it that way instead. key note most efficient isn’t always most fun. it is a game. your supposed to be having fun on it. not stressing over which min/maxer build you have to use now because your 10 builds for that class are no longer playable/duplicatable. When you reduce the mathematical variety of a system you increase how boring it is to use. this reduction isn’t in our minds. read other forum threads our mathimatician players out there did the math. there ARE less builds available to play, ALOT less.

Warlock.7136:

it is the meta we “rebel” against. the only definition of useable that i am saying is basically any build that doesn’t have a trait line that is just because we had to choose 3. that is to say that at least half the traits in that line are “useable”(affect the builds skills). i have never played meta i never will. if you used partial trait lines or stats not found in the combinations that gear allow, then you will feel the lack of fun in what you have been forced to do to characters you spent alot of time on. If lack of fun is better terminology for you then “play your way” then read it that way instead. key note most efficient isn’t always most fun. it is a game. your supposed to be having fun on it. not stressing over which min/maxer build you have to use now because your 10 builds for that class are no longer playable/duplicatable. When you reduce the mathematical variety of a system you increase how boring it is to use. this reduction isn’t in our minds. read other forum threads our mathimatician players out there did the math. there ARE less builds available to play, ALOT less.

Alot less sub-optimal, non-viable, useless builds were lost. People who call for change on this new system were either: low level or the former. And they tend to call for the nerf hammer. What has opened up are, viable or improved builds. Meta has changed. And people were following the meta or a variation of it.

There are less possible build options for sure. However, this is ONLY in regards to possible trait distributions. But that’s kind of a straw man b/c our “huge variety of options” before weren’t really options. I have ’a huge variety of options to cut my grass. I could use scissors or a weed eater or a butter knife or buy a few cows or goats OR I could just use a practical and useful lawnmower. This patch got rid of all the scissors and goats.

Here’s an example. Before the patch, say I was a Necromancer that wanted to run a maximized well build. That required a 12 pt trait investment into 3 different lines that had little synergy together and were mostly in defensive lines. This would have left me with 2 whole trait pts to invest in something other than Wells. Also this would cripple any hope for the well build b/c of the huge loss of damage/survivability potential as I would have to completely neglect any DeathShroud investment or take a huge loss to Condition Damage, Condition Duration, Precision, and/or Power.

NOW those traits have all been merged into a very synergetic line leaving me free to play Wells as a full Power spec, a full Condition spec, a beastly DeathShroud spec, or even a very good Hybrid mix of these options. This is the same with Minion Masters, Phalanx or Shout Warriors, Venom Thieves or whatever other build anyone might have been interested in. You see, ‘Specializations’ are meant to be specializations. So yes, maybe the maximum amount of mathematicaly possible builds has decreased (it was only an illusion of variety in the first in the first place), but the flexibility within build archetypes has increased dramatically. Maybe a few much layouts took a bit of a hit, but specialized builds are more well off than ever. Also, things like 62222 probably means that some good traits were over performing for there mineacule 2 pt investment.

If anyone would like help making a new build, I’d be more than happy to help. Let’s town down the hyperbole about how the game is “ruined” now though please.

Edit: I do have to agree that getting rid of build defining (specialized) traits like Thief’s Ricochet was a terrible call and those should be fixed/brought back though.

It seems some players are happy if there’s a build that works — the don’t care what it is, just that it works.

And other players are only happy with specific builds. Even if there are more valid options now, they are unhappy because their build is gone.

I put myself in the second camp. There were many mesmer build I didn’t enjoy, and one I did. So, if I cannot get back something like that one mesmer build, I will be unhappy.

Still experimenting…

Warlock.7136:

read other forum threads our mathimatician players out there did the math. there ARE less builds available to play, ALOT less.

There are fewer available combinations, in the rawest sense.

Most of the combinations we lost were, in all honesty, absolute trash. Do-nothing skills and do-nothing builds. There are very few exceptions to that… stuff like clone-death mesmers; and, enh, I really can’t say giving clone-death builds the axe hurt the game in any way.