Guild Wars 2

hopefully the PVE people will hurry up and stop taking up slots in WvW if they don’t want to PVP so the rest of us can get in without having to wait for them to finish harvesting onions and mining iron ore.

Spike Firebrand.8943:

Sure carry on grifeing people and then when there is no one left to play with, I will see you on on here moaning that no one wwvs any more. Actually Its all ready happending. So hopefully wvw will be dead soon and Anet can remove it.

Umm…..they never “removed” Jade Quarry/Fort Aspenwood in GW1, in fact that added new forms of PvP in GW1. Anet likes PvP content.

WvWvW will never be removed. As a PvE player myself. I wouldn’t want them to.

Personally I believe they should probably change things a bit in there in regards to siege, but definitely not remove WvWvW. Improve it and don’t destroy it.

BUT Kumu but they did’nt put PVE content in PVP areas in gw1 did they. So that comparison does’nt apply.

Vespers as soon as they remove the need to map wvw areas from map completion I asure you, you will NEVER see another pve player in there.

All I’m asking for is a fighting change.

I fully understand it’s a pvp zone.

I want to know how I can counter a bunch of players raining arrows down onto me when the only way to get up to them is doing the jumping puzzle, which I cannot complete because they’re keeping me in combat. It just seems like griefing to me.

When the game forces you to enter pvp just to map completion, or you can’t complete your personal storyline solo, there is somehing fundamentally wrong with the game design. I agree if you enter a pvp, expect to be attacked. However the game design doesn’t take into account the many people that think it is fun to stop others from completing pve task on a pvp area. Others see you as fair game in a pvp area, which is also a legitimate stance to take.
Remove 100% completions, puzzles, etc. out of the pvp areas as well as inabilty to complete the personal stotyline solo.

Snow White.9680:

All I’m asking for is a fighting change.

I fully understand it’s a pvp zone.

I want to know how I can counter a bunch of players raining arrows down onto me when the only way to get up to them is doing the jumping puzzle, which I cannot complete because they’re keeping me in combat. It just seems like griefing to me.

Exactly. I really enjoy WvW. It’s like being in a warzone and so much fun. The pvp in it is awesome.
But this is not just a keep that is hard to take. It is setup so you actually cannot beat them. You simply can’t reach them coz ur in combat. That is not pvp. Where’s the fight? Where’s the pitting skill against skill? They just sit there with their arrow carts.
Get me 1 on 1 and we’ll have a good ol’l party But this is just kinda pthetic of them to be honest.

I can’t figure out why people keep referring to it as a “PVE puzzle”.

Is there a boss in there? Nope….
Is it a dynamic event in there? Nope…..
Is it an instance? Nope…..
Is it in a pve zone? Nope….

It is in a pvp zone. It is where pvp is taking place. It gives pvp rewards. Therefore, it looks like a pvp puzzle.

Cerulean.5142:

Regardless if this is a PvP zone or not, it does border on griefing since it is in a PvE puzzle.

it’s a PVP puzzle.

there’s traps that other players can pull (even your own server).

the chest gives a piece of gear or two, but, it also gives a good number of badges of honor (iirc, around a dozen or more) and several blueprints for siege weapons. that sounds like a PVP puzzle to me.

You don’t need to complete the jump puzzle for 100% map completion. I don’t know why people keep bringing that up in a post about “Griefing the jump puzzle.”

Cerulean.5142:

Regardless if this is a PvP zone or not, it does border on griefing since it is in a PvE puzzle. OP do you think Anet sits and watches every server, every zone, 24 hours a day? If you think that these people are griefing then report them. Posting it on the forums will do no good and will just cause people to flame you and grief you on the forums.

Question for you: Where does one fight the environment in these puzzles? Besides the few ooze in the Borderlands puzzles? All the fighting one does in the EB puzzle is done with/by players. Therefore it’s a PvP puzzle.

Again, in this case, it’s only really “griefing” when it’s your own faction/server.

Spike Firebrand.8943:

Vespers as soon as they remove the need to map wvw areas from map completion I asure you, you will NEVER see another pve player in there.

i wouldn’t have a problem with the PVE aspect of WvW removed.

Pennry and other who say its a pvp puzzle a question for you. Is the puzzle made out of players? If not thats it part of the enviroment and therefoe pve. Are you really that dense you can’t see that or are you just being obtuse like pvpers allways are.

Gald we agree on that vespers

There is no crying in pvp. Just in pve.

I’m making a joke. Just remove the puzzles.

Spike Firebrand.8943, most of the environment that you should be having issues with can be manipulated by players. The actual “jumping path” that you go through is so straight forward it’s not even really all that much of a puzzle. And once you’ve done it once, you beat it, why go back? Oh yea, the PvP reward at the end OR the PvP fights that can break out in there. The sheer fact that there are traps that players have to set off makes it a PvP area. Add in the fact that the traps hurt everyone equally and that there are no real gates/walls to turtle behind, makes the puzzle the best place for open “sandbox” PvP. EDIT: By your above definition of PvE, everywhere is just PvE because everywhere has environment for you to deal with, even SPvP.

Honestly, if you truly only wanted to PvE and that’s all you cared about, you would just not go to WvW period. Map completion and Badges of Honor are only needed if you want a Legendary weapon. So sorry you have to partake in most the game to get such a reward. You’re lucky they don’t make you SPvP. Then you wouldn’t even have the chance to go in on off hours/wait for server dominance to swing to your favor. You’d be stuck actually PvPing. Woe is you.

WvW Jumping Puzzles are for Badges, Prints, a couple silver at most, and killing fools. None of which you need for PvE.

Solution:

Step 1, gather several classes that can AoE stealth. ie Mesmer elite.

Step 2, get to the end of the dark room and wait in the hallway

Step 3, step 3 use AoE in the hallways and drop under the ledge.

Step 4, let a Mesmer (or two.. or 3) quickly go through the animal room (should only take about 45 sec to a min tops

Step 5 portal from the trap down to waiting party…

Step 6 win?

As long as they don;t see you in the hallway come out to the ledge, they shouldn’t be actively arrowcarting.

The biggest trick… use tactics. I’ve had thieves go completely through the animal room without being seen.

If you just try to blaze though.. its no wonder you end up dying.

Pennry you seem to be under the illusion that I go there. I don’t go there nor will I ever. BUT Jumping puzzles are by the very nature of them ARE players VS the enviorment the devs built. To say otherwise is lieing. Spvp is pvp and ONLY pvp. The enviorment is just there to make it more “fun”. wvw is both pvp AND pve. Hence why there also events in wvw and you can use you pve toon and gear there. Which you can’t do in spvp.

This place has NO effect on the battle WHAT SO EVER. So there is NO need to capture it AT ALL. The only reason people would do this IS to grief people. This is what happends when you have open pvp. This is why so very few people like it. Most pvprs are incapable of beating anyone in a fair fight so HAVE to take advantage of anything they can. So they can actually get kills for thier achivements.

Spike Firebrand.8943:

Pennry you seem to be under the illusion that I go there. I don’t go there nor will I ever. BUT Jumping puzzles are by the very nature of them ARE players VS the enviorment the devs built. To say otherwise is lieing. Spvp is pvp and ONLY pvp. The enviorment is just there to make it more “fun”. wvw is both pvp AND pve. Hence why there also events in wvw and you can use you pve toon and gear there. Which you can’t do in spvp.

“It depends on what your definition of is is.”

There is no PvE in the PvP zones. By definition a PvP zone is designated as PvP. Of course you can do non-PvP things there. They didn’t take away emotes so you can dance at the waypoint all you like but it’s still PvP.

This place has NO effect on the battle WHAT SO EVER. So there is NO need to capture it AT ALL. The only reason people would do this IS to grief people. This is what happends when you have open pvp. This is why so very few people like it. Most pvprs are incapable of beating anyone in a fair fight so HAVE to take advantage of anything they can. So they can actually get kills for thier achivements.

And this is where you are DEAD wrong. The rewards from the puzzle are badges of honor http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Badge_of_Honor tells you that you can use them for Armor/Weapons and siege blueprints.

As well a blueprints which are used to build the siege.

All of which makes a HUGE impact on the game. Without siege blueprints it takes eons to break down a gate.

So the reason that they do this isn’t to grief you and your PvE sensibilities. It is in fact to prevent the enemy from obtaining things that make them stronger.

There’s a stealth buff you can get that lasts for a very long time near the start of the puzzle. Go grab that and run the puzzle. Some people (who are better than I am) are able to complete the entire puzzle while stealthed from that buff.

If the people are sitting at the ‘top’ of the puzzle mindlessly shooting arrows you can time them and run past. I suppose if there are like a few people who are coordinating their arrows so that there is a continual stream of them.. well, that would be annoying but just go do something else and allow those people to get bored.

" Pennry you seem to be under the illusion that I go there. I don’t go there nor will I ever."

Game over. Thanks for playing. Moving on.

There are a lot of frivolous complaints but this one has to be near the top.

Not only is it not griefing but it’s a valid tactic. Guess what is at the top of the jumping puzzle? Siege equipment and guess what you need to build to siege buildings?

I think intentionally stopping players from completely a jumping puzzle, which is a PvE activity, is griefing. This is exactly why you shouldn’t be putting PvE kitten in a PvP environment. Its just stupid.

This. It IS griefing and those kids should get a ban if they do it for hours at a time, but it’s really ANets fault… seriously it’s never a good idea to put pve in pvp.

I can say I have experienced this in the couple times I tried to complete the battlegrounds puzzle. Most people just ignored me though on my last time through.

But it took me having wait until a odd time of day when the population in WvW is low. Like really late at night/early morning. And if that doesn’t help then it helps to have the upper hand in WvW for that week; now I know that that isn’t so easy to come by as my server is losing about 70% of the time. If all that fails, just transfer to the winning server that is doing it and try again. :/

That said, personally I feel this behavior is scumbag. But I think ANet encouraged it by making it exist in the first place. So I’m not sure if it would entirely be considered griefing as terribly annoying as it is.

Pvping someone in a pvp zone while they try and win a chest full of pvp schematics is not griefing.

While it is a PvP zone, there are groups of 3-10 people who do nothing but grief the jumping puzzle in EB the entire time they log on. I know this because I know people that do it.

They think it’s a blast constantly screwing with people in that last room and ensuring that nobody gets the chest. They litereally log in, go to EB, and camp the jumping puzzle for up to 10 hours at a time.

Once again, we realize it is an open PvP zone, but the act of messing with people for the sole purpose of “It’s fun to do this” is just wrong and completely 100% griefing. I’m not going to harp on this or even comment on it much because it’s frustrating enough dealing with it – let alone talking about it.

I’ve said my 2 cents.

Katreyn.4218:

I can say I have experienced this in the couple times I tried to complete the battlegrounds puzzle. Most people just ignored me though on my last time through.

But it took me having wait until a odd time of day when the population in WvW is low. Like really late at night/early morning. And if that doesn’t help then it helps to have the upper hand in WvW for that week; now I know that that isn’t so easy to come by as my server is losing about 70% of the time. If all that fails, just transfer to the winning server that is doing it and try again. :/

That said, personally I feel this behavior is scumbag. But I think ANet encouraged it by making it exist in the first place. So I’m not sure if it would entirely be considered griefing as terribly annoying as it is.

I agree with you. It’s a very scummy thing to do and the fact that people get enjoyment out of it and play for the sole purpose of ruining other player’s experience is really unfortunate.

Kraven.4936:

@OP

Your kind is an epidemic. I wonder when will there ever be a time when people stop these baseless whines. I don’t mean to be offensive but you’re better off playing with barbie dolls.

Do you feel better for posting that? I’m not sure if you’ve ever been on the other end of this player behavior but the people doing it are huge scumbags. I’ve had the unfortunate displeasure of actually hearing these people doing this over VOIP and it sickens me the amount of joy they get out of screwing over other people on purpose for no reason.

Sigh. If they’re building arrow carts up there, use the standard counter to arrow carts and destroy them before running the puzzle.

What’s the standard counter to arrow carts? Ballista/catapult out of their range. It’s WvW, if they’re defending something with siege, you need to attack it with siege.

Illiander.8049:

Sigh. If they’re building arrow carts up there, use the standard counter to arrow carts and destroy them before running the puzzle.

What’s the standard counter to arrow carts? Ballista/catapult out of their range. It’s WvW, if they’re defending something with siege, you need to attack it with siege.

Not sure if you’re understanding this thread. They build them in places you can’t reach or get to and greif you from afar endlessly while you try to complete the puzzle. Couple that with mesmer portals, fears, and other knockback / CC effects, it’s just a bunch of scumbags ruining the fun for others.

It’s not PvP, it’s a pointless massacre of people just wanting to play the game.

It’s a pvp zone. It’s annoying that people take up precious queue room just for pve in a WvWvW zone.

ArenaNet has compared WvW to war. As such, they have explained that anything is fair in war, hence why they ignore the silly complaint of night capping. WvW is the one place where griefing is okay. It is after all your choice to be there and it does reset every week, if one of the servers is really bad.

Mkalafut.1273:

Illiander.8049:

Sigh. If they’re building arrow carts up there, use the standard counter to arrow carts and destroy them before running the puzzle.

What’s the standard counter to arrow carts? Ballista/catapult out of their range. It’s WvW, if they’re defending something with siege, you need to attack it with siege.

Not sure if you’re understanding this thread. They build them in places you can’t reach or get to and greif you from afar endlessly while you try to complete the puzzle. Couple that with mesmer portals, fears, and other knockback / CC effects, it’s just a bunch of scumbags ruining the fun for others.

It’s not PvP, it’s a pointless massacre of people just wanting to play the game.

It doesn’t take a genius to understand Illiander’s point. It’s wvw, you can easily counter as long as you spend as much effort as the ones camping you. Screwing people is the essence of pvp. It’s either you grow a pair, or stick to pve.

Kraven.4936:

Mkalafut.1273:

Illiander.8049:

Sigh. If they’re building arrow carts up there, use the standard counter to arrow carts and destroy them before running the puzzle.

What’s the standard counter to arrow carts? Ballista/catapult out of their range. It’s WvW, if they’re defending something with siege, you need to attack it with siege.

Not sure if you’re understanding this thread. They build them in places you can’t reach or get to and greif you from afar endlessly while you try to complete the puzzle. Couple that with mesmer portals, fears, and other knockback / CC effects, it’s just a bunch of scumbags ruining the fun for others.

It’s not PvP, it’s a pointless massacre of people just wanting to play the game.

It doesn’t take a genius to understand Illiander’s point. It’s wvw, you can easily counter as long as you spend as much effort as the ones camping you. Screwing people is the essence of pvp. It’s either you grow a pair, or stick to pve.

Right. I’m glad you make assumptions about my play style or what happens to me while I play. Telling someone to grow a pair because they say that something is griefing shows a great level of maturity too.

I have 100% world completion and two gifts of battle waiting for my legendaries. I PvP and PvE and my “end game” is world vs world. So maybe next time you tell someone to grow a pair or attack someone for voicing their opinion on something, maybe take a step back and ask yourself if you know jack s*** about the person.

Thanks.

Edit for clarity sake: once again, in the location and manner of the griefing, there is not only no time to set up seige weapons, there is no place to. It doesn’t take a genius to understand that if you’re having arrow carts fired at you in a small room, you are not going to be able to build any form of weaponry to counter it.

Since when are jumping puzzles pve? Last I checked, they are puzzles and nothing more. You find them in pve and in pvp. In pve, you got monsters to fight. In pvp, you got players to fight. Seriously….

I’m gonna play devil’s advocate here.

I don’t mind pvp in wvw. WvW however, is a place where both pvp and pve take place. It’s like rolling on PvP server in wow, youre out in the wilds you’re open for pvp.

HOWEVER.

Badges of Honor have another use that you guys didn’t list: Need em for Building a Legendary. And, you’ll excuse me, but Legendary Weapons are 98% PvE farming. That single 2% comes from: exploring the PvP maps, and having to acquire 500 Badges of Honor.

Any dedicated carebear player, and i use the therm only to illustrate players who have zero desire to partake into pvp, will be forced to undergo into an activity they do not enjoy to achieve that final result. The JPs were an interesting take on allowing these people a work around over going into the fields of battle and, well, pvping.

The problem here is, it still makes people who should have no business on WvW take slots while they clearly KNOW they don’t belong there. They want to get to it done and go about their life, back into PvE while only everything wants to murderize you.

The dilemma is this: The EB JP is a reward for controlling one of the castles. Same goes for Bls since having a strong force on that side of the map favors people from your faction having exclusive access to it. PvP happening on a PvP zone should be taken as the status quo, the defacto equalizer. Having strategical advantage should sought after, and really commended.

The changes I’d propose are:

-Remove badge of honor requirement for building a legendary would keep people who have no business in a WvWvW out. Or allow people to purchase the gift with some other currency other than BoH. I’m sure if given the option, carebears would grind another 500k karma on cursed shore if given the option.

-Allow a “truce” hour, tea time hour, I don’t care how you call it, where you will be unflagged for pvp, and at the end of that time you are ported back to LA. This should also make all enemies invisible to you, as well any siege they build, or any strategic information you could try to squeeze out of it to be denied.

-This is a personal gripe, cuz this is GENUINE GRIEF. Building Siege on top of the chest to grief your own kittenmn server is NOT FUNNY, spending 10 minutes trying to click the chest, unable to attack the siege, and not knowing who laid it down to report should not even be viewed as “you can still do it, just takes some work” kitten So, make the chest a priority to interact with over siege, make the chest bigger than siege, allow tab targeting the chest, or simply disable building siege on top of the platform. I hope ANET reads this and learn something from it: if there’s a way to piss somebody out, some monkey will find it and do it for the lulz. >:C

Vahn.9728:

I hope ANET reads this and learn something from it: if there’s a way to piss somebody out, some monkey will find it and do it for the lulz. >:C

I appreciate your whole post and I agree with most of it. The quoted text was just quoted for truth and emphasis. Players acting like (insert favorite expletive here) just for the sake of getting a laugh at griefing their own server as well as others should not be tolerated.

Illiander.8049:

Sigh. If they’re building arrow carts up there, use the standard counter to arrow carts and destroy them before running the puzzle.

What’s the standard counter to arrow carts? Ballista/catapult out of their range. It’s WvW, if they’re defending something with siege, you need to attack it with siege.

Try that when they have a balista up there too… good luck building your balista then.

Siege engines should be forbidden in puzzles, and that’s it. Everything else is fair game, but sieges are not fitting that place, are not balanced for that place.

And building a siege on the top of a chest to stop people of your own side from reaching it should of course be very harshly punished, at least a long term ban if not a permanent ban. It’s obvious, intentional griefing, and not PvP here.

Well quoteing is not working again so I will just have to do it this way.

Kumu, There are CLEAR differences between wvw and spvp, only a brain dead pvper would not see them. Once again wvw has pve xp, drops and allows you to use pve gear. While spvp DOES NOT. As usual YOU are the one thats DEAD wrong but since you are a pvper whats new. Do badges of honor have ANY effect on the result of a wvw match ? NO. Do ONLY pvpers want those badges NO. Is this the ONLY place where you can get siege blueprints NO. So as usual your argument has no point just like pvp and wvw.

Pennry typical braindead pvper comment you no play pvp, you not allowed to comment on it.

To the other braindead pvpers responding its pvp deal with it. If even CCP has had to introdue anti-griefing rules into EVE to counter people like you. then you can be sure Anet will do something about it. Lets hope they perma ban the lot of you.

Might help.

Ty tosha <3

These threads are exactly why people do it. Puzzle campers don’t know if the people they are stopping are PvE players getting their backside hurt by the camper’s actions but they hope beyond all hope that they are.

Basically, every puzzle camper out there reading this just had their day made a little better by your sweet, sweet, whiny tears.

Spike Firebrand.8943:

sigh more clueless pvpers who do NOT get it. This is NOT a pvp based game and NEVER WILL BE. This is a PVE based game that happends to have a SMALL make that VERY small section of pvp players who as usual think their more important than anyone else when thier not.

Sure carry on grifeing people and then when there is no one left to play with, I will see you on on here moaning that no one wwvs any more. Actually Its all ready happending. So hopefully wvw will be dead soon and Anet can remove it.

Doesn’t have to be a PvP based game, because we are talking about an indisputably PvP based ZONE that the said jumping puzzle is in. There is no valid or intelligent argument to the contrary. It is a zone designed for PvP. If PvP happens, it is not griefing. Sorry that someone went into a PvP zone expecting to not get killed, but that’s really not how things work…

And I have no idea what WvW you are doing, but mine is always on queue and always active. So no, it won’t be dying any time soon

PvP happens in a puzzle in a PvP area… is that right? Of course it is, that’s the way it should be. It doesn’t negate the fact that siege engines in those puzzle are overpowered, not fitting, and should be forbidden, not to mention they also permit griefing towards one’s own side.

Stiv.1820:

These threads are exactly why people do it. Puzzle campers don’t know if the people they are stopping are PvE players getting their backside hurt by the camper’s actions but they hope beyond all hope that they are.

Basically, every puzzle camper out there reading this just had their day made a little better by your sweet, sweet, whiny tears.

So you mean that because there are bullies, cheaters and exploiters out there, we shouldn’t complain about it because it may make them happy?
If we only listened to people like you, we would still live in caves, eat raw meat and pull unshaved hairy women in some corner to ensure the reproduction of our “specie”…

Korrigan.4837:

So you mean that because there are bullies, cheaters and exploiters out there, we shouldn’t complain about it because it may make them happy?
If we only listened to people like you, we would still live in caves, eat raw meat and pull unshaved hairy women in some corner to ensure the reproduction of our “specie”…

Yea pretty much exactly. If you run into a cheat or an exploit the best thing to do is report it and stay silent. All posting here does is give the hackers/exploiters something to smile about and information for those would be hackers/exploiters to go do it themselves.

As far as “bullies” well, that’s where we get into the PvP zone thing. Don’t go there if you don’t like the PvP that is allowed via the game’s code. If you don’t think it’s meant to be that way then why do they allow siege to be placed and why on earth would there be player activated traps all over the EB jump puzzle?

Regardless of seige and no-seige, there are still plenty of opportunities to total mess with players because there’s one set path to solving the puzzle…. Unlike a tower/castle/whatever in the battlegrounds which have multiple options in terms of how you can get in.

I personally don’t think the jumping puzzle in WvW is well thought out, though I like the idea of having it.

The seige blueprints are a valuable PvP resource. It’s simply good strategy to try to deny other teams access to that resource, just like orbs or supply or anything else.

I agree the seige is super cheap, but there are ways to counter it. It just requires a lot more coordination than zerging your way up to the enemy. I suspect half the people complaining about it would still complain even if the opposing team just stood patiently by the chest waiting for the enemy to arrive so they could engage in gentleman-like melee.

On a related tangent, the fact that there are achievements tied to the PvP jumping puzzles is a massive mistake. The chest at the end should be the only reward. A lot of PvE players are anal completionists (I know, I’m one of them), and the achievement is a giant carrot dangling from a stick. If the devs’ intention was to draw additional carebare cannon fodder into W3, because they feel those types of players taking up queue slots makes for a better overall PvP experience, then their design is a success. If the hope was that enticing PvE players to join W3 would somehow get them excited about becoming more active in PvP (after getting steamrolled and griefed while trying to earn an achievement), then I don’t know what they were thinking.

Maybe if taking forts/garrisons offered more than just karma/money rewards, then the jumping puzzle wouldn’t be so desirable… You need 500 badges for the legendary and a couple hundred or more for PvP gear (I think you also need them to purchase seige stuff). Idk, but doing just the PvP aspects of WvW yield me very few of these badges whereas the EB chest can give you up to 20 badges…. I’ve yet to get that many in any one sitting of WvW (unless it was a long session).

vespers.1759:

hopefully the PVE people will hurry up and stop taking up slots in WvW if they don’t want to PVP so the rest of us can get in without having to wait for them to finish harvesting onions and mining iron ore.

Yeah that’s never going to happen so long as World Completion requires WvW.

That and monthly achivements. Seriously, it seems we are being forced to play some degree of pvp even if we have no interest in doing so what so ever.

Honestly, if it keeps the pve focused players from clogging up the queues for WvWvW, I am all for it.

Just remove siege stuff from the puzzle, you have other toys to annoy players with that is build in the puzzle. If its pvp puzzle, then where is the pvp? All I see is Arrowcarts vs Players….

No argument that is for keeping siege inside jumping puzzles are good enough, all it does is creating a toxic attitude among the community because people are in a disagreement about this. No one here says they don’t want fighting (actual PvP) in the puzzles, we just don’t see the anti grief policy being true in this case, remove the ability to build siege, simple as that.

I just can’t understand people that enjoys seeing others being miserable. Is it the feeling of power? Grow up.