Guild Wars 2

A lot of the enemy encounters worked this way late in those games: there’d be a roaming spread out group of mobs following some kind of semi-random path. Sometimes, one group will get close to another group and stay there for a bit, until they break away again.

The best part of it was that right before you get close, some of the more timid creatures would actually clump together and form a defensive core, as if they were scared of you. Sometimes there was one sentinel mob who scoped you out, walking out just enough to the edge of your aggro circle.

I remember when I played Nightfall a long ago, there was a specific moment where I saw the groups all moving around on screen in a savanna, and thought “wow, this looks so lively.”

I don’t really remember anything like that in GW2. They all basically charge at you without really any thought. A lot of the mobs are also all loners, waiting to die. Of course they do some cool things, like fighting other enemies, but if you engage them in anyway they just start attacking you.

Now that you said that, I do miss the more realistic AI system in Guild Wars 1. But at the same time, I don’t miss walking by a group of enemies that suddenly tense up when they see me and then communicate with 5 other enemies to come attack me. It kinda seems like they took a step back with the AI system.

Galtrix.7369:

It kinda seems like they took a step back with the AI

what an understatement

Agreed i remember the areas just outside of lions arch fondly, the mobs spawns seemed more realistic less plopped everywhere. And a lot more dangerous.

I don’t know why but the AI seemed a lot smarter too back then, agreed op.

I don’t think “realistic” or “smart” are quite the terms you want to use. If you take a step back and look at the two systems you are comparing, the answer might seem obvious. In GW1 all the enemies (bar a few) used skills that players had access to. The clumping and front – mid – back arrangement were used by mobs because it’s what was optimal given the combat system. In GW2, for one, the game combat is fundamentally different. So, asking why they didn’t transpose a system where the enemy healers are in the back and the melee enemies are up front mowing you down just doesn’t make a lot of sense. Another difference is that the devs chose to give enemies (centaurs, wolves, devourers) mostly different skill sets from players. Beyond that, you have the fact that mob movement in GW1 was scripted based on instance design and not open world design. You had no one else on a map but you and your team to influence mob movement.

With that out of the way, I believe that Anet could do better with how enemies interact with players but that is a different question. What happened to roaming AI from GW1? This isn’t GW1 in so many ways. That’s what happened.

I too have fond memories of that AI. Learning the patrol patterns and strategically cutting my way through the mobs was one of the defining aspects of the game for me. Unfortunately, those dynamics only work on instanced maps. The change to a permanant world meant the roaming AI had to go.

But let’s not forget that the AI in GW1 wasn’t always that good. At first, enemies just stood there and let you stack AoEs on them (and boy was there player outrage when ANet fixed it. How dare the mobs not stand still and let us kill them!) You know, like most of the GW2 enemies do now. The AI will be upgraded in time.

I agree roaming foes were neat. There is small groups in this game that move around, specifically bandits and centaurs. The group outside one of the camps in Harathi Hinterlands for example. There are a few mob pops like if you smash a body or do some things. I can see where the element is still in the game to a degree. What is said above is very true based on the changes in the play style of this game. The Events to a degree attempt to make you feel like things are not just spaced out waiting to be killed and actually involved in a skirmish. Maybe they just need more idle animations other than pacing 12 feet then bobbing in one spot.

@kalarchris "AI in GW1 wasn’t always that good. " lol Body blocking with a PermaSin

the enemy ai really does need work

How will servers handle advanced AI if they can’t already handle unlimited AoE?

Roaming AI…easy to do in an instance, very hard to do in the open world.

Think about how it would work in the open world. It’s not a small group of people or a single person with 7 heroes (or 3 heroes and 4 henchies). Sometimes it’s 1 guy who’s not the best player in the world…or new to the game.

They couldn’t hit that guy with a group that included a minion master, an ele and a monk, because he’d be dead. No one to heal him, no spirits or minions…it would be a slaughter.

Roaming patrols make it harder to balance the open world. That’s why I’ve seen very few MMOs with an open world that have roaming patrols like that. There are some (some of the dual wolve or coyote encounters…or the small raptor packs), but not that many, because the open world isn’t built for them.

Also remember in Guild Wars 2 creatures respawn in the open world which never happened in Guild Wars 1. That means it’s harder to balance. All you’d need is a random patrol respawning on top of you. That’s a whole lot of not fun.

Of course, that means that instanced play is always going to be superior to a persistent world…if done right. That’s one of the drawbacks of having a persistent world.

I remember in BWE 1 seeing Tamini Archers kiting player melee all over the place while still getting arrows off. I thought, “Wow, this is great!” Pity so few range mobs do this. The only one I can think of off on the spur of the moment is Tar Elementals in Cursed Shore.

I’d like to say I’ve seen occasional patrol mobs in GW2, but when pressed, I can’t think for the life of me where. The only thing that comes to mind is being unfortunate enough to be at the spawn point for a large group of enemies on their way to a DE that is highly populated — and having that group not be one that is invulnerable and won’t aggro til they get where they’re going.