Guild Wars 2

I would like to request that crafting no longer give experience, because it directly skews the value of crafted items.

I would venture to say that Key farmers, and lazy levelers represent the majority of people crafting. and they are creating the whole Tradepost/crafting convolution (worthlessness of items) which is IMHO a detriment to the game.

April fool’s, am I right?

I’d still not do any crafting. No change then.

What about the people leveling crafting only to get Asc Equip?

The problem is that crafing doesn’t provide you with anything (except maybe bufffood) that you need on a regular basis. Therefore anything you craft is something that you most likely don’t need. The only stuff that I really use that was crafted (and not bought for dungeon-tokens, karma, etc) is ascended equipment. Everything else I’ve ever crafted was only to get crafting up to 500.

My First character took forever to level up because I avoided crafting lol

its a quick and effective way to level up which personally I like

Crafting is typically part of the leveling regimen I use on all of my characters. I think every alt has at least 1 crafting profession. Changing this would be detrimental to my personal play style (and would royally tick me off).

If there’s an issue with crafting giving XP, it’s the increasing scale of it. Early bumps are a miserable percentage, but the late-game bumps mean I can gain a healthy fraction of a level just by making a rare discovery. I had less incentive to finish high level zones because of it.

OP comes off as a profiteer trying to eliminate competition

Are you seriously saying that crafting were useful in a 2.5 year old game where most people have multiple/all profession at max level?

As in there could be enough less ambudance of crafters that low level items were useful?

As in any gap or money maker were not to be filled imediately by someone?

Wow, what world are you living in?

Crafting is fine as is with experience.

ps. why would a key farmer be bothered with crafting? The run takes about 25 minutes and requires exactly 0 crafting. As far as lazy levelers, tell that to someone who has run through world completion multiple times and wants to save 12 hours on his next twink.

crafting giving exp doesn’t skew the value of anything. people spam crafting certain items to reach 500 as efficiently as possible does. Thank GW2crafts.net.

Crafting has become little more than power leveling.

I crafted a ton of my personal gear (most of it), but honestly if you’re crafting for profit, you’re kitten crazy, at least with normal gear. You can get everything from drops, map and dungeon rewards.
Its simply not cost-effective. Materials (specially if you’re doing exotics, with all the ectos) are so expensive your profit margin is tiny. Add to that that everyone can get a bunch of items, with better looks from random drops. You’re out of business.

Neural.1824:

Crafting has become little more than power leveling.

Or for Ascended gear

I leveled one alt with crafting just to see. That was two years ago. When I craft, I craft to make Ascended gear or sell the Ascended mats.

1-450 is used for two things only. a) means to get to Ascended mats point (450, and then of course 500 ultimately) b) for leveling.

Everything from 1-450 is pretty irrelevant in GW2 as it is.

Crafting has multiple issues as to why it is not practical to make gold.

Crafting is not something that is laborous or has a cost outside of the material cost.

Anyone can pick it up and start leveling it and all players are equally skilled at it.

You can make items in bulk very quickly.

All goods produced are identical. There is no quality variance between items of the same kind.

Materials are more demand than finished products. The primary reason for crafing is to level it up. Since it is not laborious or a skill. It is a cost to most players. The finished products are really a bi-product of what they are spending for and the market treats then as such.

Notice the only profitable things to craft are time gated. Anet had the right idea here. It put a degree of articfical labor in it and controls the supply of that said item. Making the final product more scarce than the materials. If it was like this for everything the market would be much different and crafting would be more than a cost investment.

A more economic centric crafting system would have a system that was not restrictive of materials per crafting level. It would have a single “recipie” for each type of item such as using any type of component such as cloth breast component, metal breast component, ect produces heavy breast plate.

You can base the level requirement based on the material used. For example if you used all first tier materials it would produce armor between with a random range 1-20. If you used 2nd tier metal component and first tier cloth component a random range of 10-30. These ranges are just examples. Of course armor would require things other than metal and cloth components like insignas to make level ranges smaller and more controlled by the player.

The quality like masterwork or rare would be random skewing upwards in quality as you gain more crafting experiance where max experiance produces max quality of that level every time. Max would need to be a very high number and take awhile to max to have a skill variance amoung players. Akin to how there is a large diversify of players luck based magic find.

The system would only allow so many non-refinement items to be crafted per day. Experience gained would have dinishing returns if you crafted the same thing every day. Experiance criticals can happen when you craft something at a quality level that you had low probability of producing.

Ascended armor would have to be handled a in a special way. It would have to have a fail rating thats 100% for someone with no exp skews downwards until 0 based on experiance. Also make it sellable on the trade post. People shouldn’t have to craft. It should be a marketable skill people took the time to build and learn.

I don’t know how well this would fit into the casual idea of the game, but I think if we wanted a more economical and richer crafting experiance the system would have to look something like this.

Then say bye bye to keyfarmers.

Crafting gives XP because everything in the game gives XP. It rewards players who do a lot of crafting, letting them play how they like and still be on the same level with other players.

lol, I have like 100 bl chests, so I looked up key farm and did it once, first time ever, last week, just to say, “hey, wonder how long this takes?” I didn’t use any tomes, started at legit lvl 1, sylvari ranger with GS. It wasn’t really worth the 2 hours it took imho (assuming you don’t use any tomes or anything)… I got pretty lucky and got a Caithe mini, other than that, not much. Kept the mini. Seriously, in the time it took to farm a key, I could have run Silverwastes or dungeons and made 5 or 6x that much gold. Are there people who are seriously farming bl keys on a regular basis? I don’t understand the benefit. That’d be like 2000 hours of farming just to gamble on chest rng.

regarding exp for crafting, why the heck not? the sheer gold cost involved to craft a toon from 1 – 80 would be ridiculous, most people are going to just salvage back most of what they crafted anyway. I don’t really understand the complaint when you actually think about it.

party buddy.4956:

I would like to request that crafting no longer give experience, because it directly skews the value of crafted items.

I would venture to say that Key farmers, and lazy levelers represent the majority of people crafting. and they are creating the whole Tradepost/crafting convolution (worthlessness of items) which is IMHO a detriment to the game.

People may not use the crafting system guides to level up their player level but they will still level up their crafting level with those guides. So the market will still be flooded by low level crafting goods making them a loss. The crafting disciplines like cook and jewelry, which currently don’t have a level 500 ascended may benefit somewhat but disciplines for ascended armor and weapons, those will still be powered through.

Cyninja.2954:

Crafting is fine as is with experience.

ps. why would a key farmer be bothered with crafting? The run takes about 25 minutes and requires exactly 0 crafting. As far as lazy levelers, tell that to someone who has run through world completion multiple times and wants to save 12 hours on his next twink.

I do keyruns now and then I seldom use crafting unless I have more green wood and copper then I can store. I have to ask how do you get to lvl 10 and do the personal story in 25 minutes?

I really wish all other crafting took a page from cooking. Cooking doesn’t bottleneck, really. There are alternate ingredient combinations that can be used if you don’t have the ones you need right on-hand. All the rest have really rigid material requirements, where if you run out of one of the components, you’re out of luck until you gather/buy more.

My experience with crafting in other games: waste of time, except for making consumables.

My experience with crafting in GW2: waste of time except for consumables, or crafting one’s own exotic or Ascended armor (if you can stand to).

Making gold via crafting? Having a hard time taking the idea seriously. If you want to make gold in GW2, collect the mats for crafting and sell them to those who want to craft Ascended or Legendary items.

In another MMO that I play, they have an item they sell on the equivalent of their gem store (for a small amount, maybe 50 or 100 gems in GW2 terms) that, when equipped, turns off all XP gain. It’s not a one-time use thing, it is an item in the accessory slot that you can either equip or unequip. That way if people want to craft but for whatever reason don’t want the character to actually level from crafting, those people can pop in that accessory, do their crafting, and then if they want to go off and quest and level, just pop the accessory back out and they gain XP like normal.

Seems to me that could be a potential solution.

Guhracie.3419:

I really wish all other crafting took a page from cooking. Cooking doesn’t bottleneck, really. There are alternate ingredient combinations that can be used if you don’t have the ones you need right on-hand. All the rest have really rigid material requirements, where if you run out of one of the components, you’re out of luck until you gather/buy more.

Might not be as bad with cooking but when I was going through leveling my crafters I remember getting stuck on stuff require rosemary.

MithrilSoul.5049:

In another MMO that I play, they have an item they sell on the equivalent of their gem store (for a small amount, maybe 50 or 100 gems in GW2 terms) that, when equipped, turns off all XP gain. It’s not a one-time use thing, it is an item in the accessory slot that you can either equip or unequip. That way if people want to craft but for whatever reason don’t want the character to actually level from crafting, those people can pop in that accessory, do their crafting, and then if they want to go off and quest and level, just pop the accessory back out and they gain XP like normal.

Seems to me that could be a potential solution.

How is that relevant to this thread?

What I would like to know is whether crafting will be required to make the new legendary weapons.

party buddy.4956:

I would like to request that crafting no longer give experience, because it directly skews the value of crafted items.

I would venture to say that Key farmers, and lazy levelers represent the majority of people crafting. and they are creating the whole Tradepost/crafting convolution (worthlessness of items) which is IMHO a detriment to the game.

I have never crafted for levels but I am not sure I buy this arguement, I see a lot of low level gear go for crazy prices due in part to the rise in prices of low level mats because of ascended crafting, your idea would simply drop the prices of crafting mats because there would be less crafting and excess amounts of low level mats and in turn the crafted item would have less value as a result. Also in regards to exotics, value is based largely on popularity of stats hence why berserkers is always the most expensive because it is the most widely used.

As a key farmer, I never craft to level because there are way easier and cheaper ways to reach level 10. In fact, I don’t even know key farmers that level by throwing money at crafting.

Celtic Lady.3729:

What I would like to know is whether crafting will be required to make the new legendary weapons.

If you read A Legendary Journey it seems pretty clear crafting will be part of it.

The way legendarys are made will not change.

The are multiple issues with the original post:

1. Crafting is very profitable. It depends on the item and the market conditions.
2. There are several reasons why certain items are cheaper to buy than to craft; experience from crafting is only one (and not the most important probably).
3. The economy isn’t ‘broken’ because some (even most) items aren’t profitable to craft regularly. We are used to other MMOs where crafting is very profitable, but often that’s because those economies are broken (in that people with access to certain resources have a big advantage over others who don’t).

In short, there’s no actual problem that needs to be fixed, let alone a need for experience to be removed from the crafting process.

Crafting is profitable? What craft is that? Tailoring certainly isn’t. Everything in tailoring on the TP is the same cost as the mats.

party buddy.4956:

I would like to request that crafting no longer give experience, because it directly skews the value of crafted items.

I would venture to say that Key farmers, and lazy levelers represent the majority of people crafting. and they are creating the whole Tradepost/crafting convolution (worthlessness of items) which is IMHO a detriment to the game.

You know what ruins loot in this game? That so much drops and most of it is garbage. Even though there is so much on the tp that things aren’t even worth posting, most drops get vendored or salvaged and there is still a glut of trash on the TP. The game gives out garbage gear like Jehovah’s Witness pamphlets. You can’t get rid of it fast enough. It has absolutely zero to do with crafting and everything with how most gear is simply trash.

I hope you guys do know that crafting exp has been nerfed. A level 20 character that pops a crafting booster and then gets 2 crafts to 400 will have netted only 7 or 8 exp experience levels.

I don’t see how removing XP would have any real effect on crafting. The underlining issue with crafting is the abundance of equivalent drops, and lack of consumption of crafted items.

Crafted items need some sort of boost in stats for lower levels. For 80 there needs to be more cooldowns so the market isn’t flooded.

I think that crafting should give more xp for the gold it costs…but thats just me being a greedy altoholic

Well….

Crafting used to be able to give people 10-15 levels when using a crafting booster and a xp booster.

Both he xp and the use of the xp booster no longer work, so you now get 7 or 8 levels from crafting form 0-400 and at that point it gets prohibiably expensive, so if you already have a character with lvl 500 I’d stop, maybe I’d make refine soem orichalcum or ancient wood I ’d had some, or male some relevant exotics but 8+ levels would be very rare…

Even so most users would just stack up tomes of knowledge and use those for XP/ leveling. If you finished the wait you can have your next level 80 in well 61 to 78 doubleclicks depending if you use a lvl20 scroll… it is free, and if you already unlocked your crafting proffessions you can just ignore the rest….

Just for the record I prefer jewelry to level, if I do so, but huntsman and leatherowrker do well as well, with leatherworker being a bit more expensive due to some cloth being used., I hoestly do not need crafting powerleveling anymore now with 15 lvl 80’s though, But I’d appreciate it would be left as is. So others can reap some benefit of low level armors, weapons and trinkets.

when maxed at 500/400 you’ll notice you’ll keep working towards new goals… and we’ll see…. I use my crafting nowadays t make exotics with zealot/sinister and nomads if I need to, or want to. I have unlocked a lot of different recipes…we’ll see what will be next…

If an incentive exists to create an item, regardless of a demand for that item, the market becomes oversaturated, This makes crafting with the purpose to fill a need less relevant. This superfluous incentive is compounded with the fact that 99% of the Products themselves are unwanted or have no use to a consumer.

I don’t believe the purpose of crafting should be to level a character quickly. I think playing the game should serve that function. Key farmers and people leveling alts use crafting as a shortcut, to pay for leveling, instead of Play to level. This also is a negative mark on GW2, People should want to play the game to level, Why don’t you want to play the game?

To my second point. Until yesterday I was of the frame of mind that to solve the problem specific to craftable runes and sigils values, that the Devs needed to make them more desirable. I realized that this is not the solution. I suggest that to solve that aspect of the problem, they need to make the handful of runes that stand out, such as Hoelbrak, and Strength for example, less OP than the other runes. People would get more creative with their builds instead of just zerking up, and other runes would regain some value.

I have attached the current values/profitability of craftable runes, as of this post. The difference is shown as gold.silvercopper x.xxxx

Take a useless aspect of the game and make it MORE useless. Awesome idea.

Fiennis.4387:

I hope you guys do know that crafting exp has been nerfed. A level 20 character that pops a crafting booster and then gets 2 crafts to 400 will have netted only 7 or 8 exp experience levels.

1 craft (1-400) gets you around 7 levels. So, 2 crafts would get you around 14-15 levels.

And a side note: If you use the lunar festival fireworks while crafting, you’ll get bonus exp during the crafting (since the buff from the fireworks applies to all non-item exp gains). I got almost 10 levels from 1-400 cooking last night.

party buddy.4956:

I have attached the current values/profitability of craftable runes, as of this post. The difference is shown as gold.silvercopper x.xxxx

Gee, the really expensive slightly profitable ones have watchwork sprockets as their costliest material. Now only if there is a way to get them without buying them off of the TP?

But in most cases it’s the various T5 stones that are the significant cost which drives the cost higher than the market will bear. A tiny loss while leveling your crafting is better than a huge loss.

party buddy.4956:

If an incentive exists to create an item, regardless of a demand for that item, the market becomes oversaturated, This makes crafting with the purpose to fill a need less relevant. This superfluous incentive is compounded with the fact that 99% of the Products themselves are unwanted or have no use to a consumer.

I don’t believe the purpose of crafting should be to level a character quickly. I think playing the game should serve that function. Key farmers and people leveling alts use crafting as a shortcut, to pay for leveling, instead of Play to level. This also is a negative mark on GW2, People should want to play the game to level, Why don’t you want to play the game?

To my second point. Until yesterday I was of the frame of mind that to solve the problem specific to craftable runes and sigils values, that the Devs needed to make them more desirable. I realized that this is not the solution. I suggest that to solve that aspect of the problem, they need to make the handful of runes that stand out, such as Hoelbrak, and Strength for example, less OP than the other runes. People would get more creative with their builds instead of just zerking up, and other runes would regain some value.

I have attached the current values/profitability of craftable runes, as of this post. The difference is shown as gold.silvercopper x.xxxx

Nerfing the ones that are good now, or buffing the ones that are bad now, doesn’t change anything from the overall perspective. Superior Runes of the Scholar are the most desirable Rune for high-tier dungeon running, and crafting only causes it to bring parity to the cost of the materials instead of being like Superior Runes of Strength. If literally one of the most desirable runes can only break parity, then it’s pretty clear that no amount of changes to the runes would actually cause them to be profitable outside of the ways that it’s done now (ie. by making them hard to actually make in a more literal sense in the first place due to recipe limitations).

This, of course, brings us to the obvious point that the craftable ones in this style of market, one where supply and demand are 100% relevant, cannot be profitable by major amounts. It’s only when you force supply down, ala. the Ascended materials like Damask and Deldrimor, will there ever be a relevant profit that will be consistently there (Scholar, for instance, sells at a 10s loss right now, as drops + crafting have caused its price to drop slightly).

Experience gain, likewise, can be shown to be negligible at worst for the overall market. Take Buttermilk Biscuit, one of the things used to power level for key farming. Since the advent of the new key farming (ie. where you have to hit 10 to start your personal story) it hasn’t changed price in the least. Same goes with Cup of Potato Fries, Strawberry Tart, and literally everything else used in power-leveling. They, however, have had an impact on the market: they’ve increased the priced for the things used to make said food items. Butter has moved from 30c to 1s89c, Potatoes have moved from 41c to 1s15c. This means that it’s now quite profitable to play certain parts of the game that were previously not profitable at all: gathering. In a net scenario, they’ve just changed it from “neither of these things are profitable” to “one of these things is profitable.” No matter how you shake it, that’s a net improvement to the overall economy.

Similarly, literally everything you do in this game is playing this game. Literally everything. Just because you personally don’t like it doesn’t mean that it’s not playing this game. If you are logged into GW2, and you are pressing the buttons to do something in GW2, you’re playing GW2. Period.

What if crafting had more of a horizontal progression instead of a heavy vertical progression, with more abilities to create specific groups of things right off the bat. Recipies and manuals may be more useful that way. Verticality and horizontality would be added with time. Instead of gating all high level crafting items with one level for all, each group of items have their own mastery levels.

Reaching a max level in any of the sub-groups would max a general crafting level of say…cooking.

Being able to level by crafting INCREASES the value of those said items, it doesnt decrease it at all. Its good

party buddy.4956:

I would venture to say that Key farmers, and lazy levelers represent the majority of people crafting. and they are creating the whole Tradepost/crafting convolution (worthlessness of items) which is IMHO a detriment to the game.

Or perhaps people leveling crafting to get to the point where they can craft Ascended gear?

party buddy.4956:

I would like to request that crafting no longer give experience, because it directly skews the value of crafted items.

I would venture to say that Key farmers, and lazy levelers represent the majority of people crafting. and they are creating the whole Tradepost/crafting convolution (worthlessness of items) which is IMHO a detriment to the game.

So, in short.

YOU don’t like it, so remove it for everyone? Correct?

In fact, the economy in this is absolutely spot on. The majority of items are sold for what they are worth. It’s a very stable economy that doesn’t give any leeway to greedy players trying to buy out and re-list everything at ridiculous prices.

In most MMO’s I play I do extremely well in abusing the auction houses, market places, trading posts etc and making a killing from it. I actually dislike it since making money is rather addictive yet boring. In GW’s however, you can try all you like to buy out the 9999 items and re-list them, but it will quickly level back to their proper pricing. This is a good thing.

Besides, it’s hardly hard to make money anyway. Key farming is boring, but if people want to do that, that’s their choice. It seems like you are in fact the lazy one here, looking to make a quick buck sitting at the TP all day.

Actually, I don’t even know why I’m bothering with such a silly post. I’ll give you a short answer that’s the only thing needed:

No.

Izziee.8392:

The majority of items are sold for what they are worth.

My experience has been that a huge amount of items are sold for less than the total cost of the materials it would take to craft them. Theoretically, crafting something should add value, rather than subtract it.

I took that for what the OP was trying to fix.

It seems like you are in fact the lazy one here, looking to make a quick buck sitting at the TP all day.

I got the impression the OP was looking to make money by crafting. The idea being, that a lot of people craft to level, so there is a glut of crafted items, and mats are valued. Take away experience, and people would only craft if they are interested in doing so to make money, which would theoretically cause the price of crafted items to rise to a reasonable profit above the cost of the mats required.

This doesn’t, however, take into account two other things.

A) People also craft to get to endgame gear (ascended) that can only be crafted, thereby valuing mats over all of the stuff they craft along the way.

B) Outside of ascended stuff, gear is really easy to get in this game. If crafted stuff rises in price, there’re plenty of ways for non-crafters to get alternate items.

Both of those, in addition to experience-for-crafting, would have to be addressed to make crafting worthwhile. And with the nerfing of experience for crafting and the increase of the availability of Tomes of Knowledge, crafting-to-level is probably much less common than it used to be.

Gibson.4036:

Izziee.8392:

The majority of items are sold for what they are worth.

My experience has been that a huge amount of items are sold for less than the total cost of the materials it would take to craft them. Theoretically, crafting something should add value, rather than subtract it.

I took that for what the OP was trying to fix.

It seems like you are in fact the lazy one here, looking to make a quick buck sitting at the TP all day.

I got the impression the OP was looking to make money by crafting. The idea being, that a lot of people craft to level, so there is a glut of crafted items, and mats are valued. Take away experience, and people would only craft if they are interested in doing so to make money, which would theoretically cause the price of crafted items to rise to a reasonable profit above the cost of the mats required.

This doesn’t, however, take into account two other things.

A) People also craft to get to endgame gear (ascended) that can only be crafted, thereby valuing mats over all of the stuff they craft along the way.

B) Outside of ascended stuff, gear is really easy to get in this game. If crafted stuff rises in price, there’re plenty of ways for non-crafters to get alternate items.

Both of those, in addition to experience-for-crafting, would have to be addressed to make crafting worthwhile. And with the nerfing of experience for crafting and the increase of the availability of Tomes of Knowledge, crafting-to-level is probably much less common than it used to be.

It should only add value if there’s no other way to get it, and when demand is high + supply is limited. For a game, the theoretical amount for items that you couldn’t get normally, but could craft, would be exact parity with the costs. If you can immediately make something for a profit, there’s no reason not to. The only time it would be different would be something like the Runes of Perplexity, where the amount of people that can directly make it is limited very strictly and that number can no longer be increased. Even then, however, demand is low enough that it’s only just barely above the amount supplied.

That’s why they added in the time-gated Ascended materials. It’s guaranteed to be in high demand, but the supply is extremely limited as forced by the game. If you could make a infinite amount of Damask per day, the price on Damask would immediately drop down to the cost of the materials (which would also rise to meet the lowering price of Damask). By doing this they’re giving a giant target sign on something that’s obviously good, and saying “This is profitable and desirable! Get on it if you want to make money!” There are many things that you can make at a profit in each class, but either their demand is so low that they’re not desired (see Satchel of Precise Embroidered Armor for something in Tailor that has a 606% profit margin when sold at current prices), they have a high enough demand that no reasonable amount of sale would cause their value to completely go away (such as Pot of Lemongrass Poultry Soup), or have factors that directly prevent people from causing parity (the Ascended materials).

But yeah, as long as you can obtain the item far more easily by non-crafting methods, the price of the item will plummet to below material cost. If the only way to obtain Exotic weapons/armor were through crafting, it’d still be profitable to make them even if they increased exp gain by 5x (or even theoretically, quite a bit higher than that, as supply:demand would force the materials up in price if that were the case, and would eventually force parity). Leveling in this game is extremely easy, and the ability to level up fast in one manner is no where near as relevant as the utter lack of demand for practically everything involved due to how extremely easy it is to obtain nearly every desired thing.

I prefer the exp system stay the way it is. It allows it so that I don’t fall behind in level as in crafting instead of questing.

If people could make unlimited Damask everyday the price of cloth would skyrocket which in turn would raise the price of Damask even higher.