Guild Wars 2

Bear with me on this one, because I’m not even sure if it makes sense myself yet…

• DISCLAIMER: this is NOT a thread asking for trinity or for any other changes to the current game, so anti-trinity flamelords please cool your keyboards. This is just a speculation thread, and I very much enjoy playing GW2 as it is. Therefore, please don’t comment saying “there will never be trinity” or “go play WoW” – I’m not asking for trinity, I’m just postulating ideas/theories. -*

So “trinity”, in my understanding, is the game mechanic in an MMO which means that you choose a certain profession or class depending on which role you want to play – DPS/Tank/Healer. You are then stuck to that role. You may be able to try other roles as that profession, but you would be inefficient in performing it: for example, a cleric/sage character trying to perform a DPS role.

Currently, Guild Wars 2 has an excellent combat and profession build system which means you can play almost any playstyle you want with any given profession, and have the free ability to change round quickly between builds. However, what the game doesn’t currently have (I repeat – this is not a request for change – just observation) as far as I can tell is content that may require some players in a team to alter their builds to fulfill certain roles in a team – e.g. some players may need to change to support-focusing builds so that every member of the team can stay alive.

Now this sounds like trinity, I know, because it would be a requirement of tank/heal-support/DPS elements within the game. But is it? Referring to my definition of trinity (as I understand it) – trinity means you are STUCK in that role for your whole game experience. But in GW2, you wouldn’t be. Given the profession/build system, you would have the choice as to whether or not you were the member of the team who became the tank or the DPSer, for example.

What if all that had to change for these roles to be created was future PvE content? The reason these postulations are in my head is due to the devs discussing how there would be “much more challenging PvE content” with the release of HoT, alongside the creation of profession specialisations, which I imagine will create more disparity between professions/builds. What if new content was challenging to the extent that, to complete it in the most quick and efficient way, some members of the team would be required to play certain builds in order to adjust the damage:support ratio? Current content is good in that it allows you to build your character (easier or harder depending on your profession) with almost maximum damage output while have some baseline survival skills like dodging, aegis, etc. But those survival skills are baseline. What if this new content is so challenging that players will have to adapt their builds for either themselves or their teams, because baseline survival techniques will be insufficient to stay alive?

Again, I’m not “hoping for this to happen” – I’m speculating as to whether people would consider this “trinity”, a welcome concept in the game, something that is already in place (i.e. content that I haven’t thought of and therefore this thread is pointless lol), or something that would be bad for the game. I guess to summarise, it would be a kind of “optional trinity”, but a very hazy version of “trinity”. Now that I’ve confused myself thoroughly, does this make sense to anyone or am I just tired and need a nap?

I’ve thought about it too, but I suspect then GW2 just becomes another generic cookie-cutter MMO and LFG fills with “3 DPS need Healer and Tank” groups.

Gw2 does not have professions it has classes… The role each class can play is DPS, support and heal.

If you want a profession based game – try gw1 or another MMO.

Bryzy.2719:

Currently, Guild Wars 2 has an excellent combat and profession build system which means you can play almost any playstyle you want with any given profession, and have the free ability to change round quickly between builds. However, what the game doesn’t currently have (I repeat – this is not a request for change – just observation) as far as I can tell is content that may require some players in a team to alter their builds to fulfill certain roles in a team – e.g. some players may need to change to support-focusing builds so that every member of the team can stay alive.

Good party compositions have more emphasis on Support than Damage. Good team try to have a large variety of support, instead of only focusing on dealing damage.

The list below is a list of “Support” you can offer to your team:

~25 Stacks of Vulnerability, there are builds who can do this on their own, or the party can focus on going this route.
~25 Stacks of Might, same as the above, there are builds who can reach this on their own, but it’s better sometimes to have multiple party members to do it
~perma Fury, this is harder to achieve with one person, but a couple of players can keep it up forever
~Blinds, useful in some encounters, having blind fields is important
~Stealth, useful to save team mates and for runs
~Fire Fields, to stack might mostly
~Water Fields, for AoE healing and condi cleanse
~Blast finishers, to blast those fields for a variety of abilities
~Poison Fields, Whirl / Blast finishers turn these into AoE Weakness, very useful to lower the damage pressure on the party
~Aegis, Stability, Protection, useful boons for any party
~AoE Condi cleanse, important to remove conditions from party members during a run
~Projectile Reflection, self explanatory

All these can help a team more than pure damage can. Optimized damage and increased defenses lead to a smoother run. Just because players have already learned how to Support and do it mechanically, even without thinking, doesn’t mean support isn’t there.

What more do you want from a Support build?

Go play pvp. Seriously. The amount of build diversity will blow your mind.

The game was advertised and sold as “you can fulfill all the roles” which means you can both control and support in addition to dealing damage. This is why I bought this game, because I was tired of looking for specific group composition in other lackluster mmos.

Therefore all you want is me to not do what I’m doing now which is doing all 3 things at the same time but you want others to specialize in different builds so I have to look for other ppl with specialized builds if I’m not playing one. This is wrong and creating such a role focused gameplay will backfire because trust me, in terms of trinity gameplay we have much better titles on the market already.

This game is better (for me) because it’s different.

About different “builds” – what I read in your post is not different build but different stat combos. We already have some new mechanics introduced in Dry Top and Silverwastes. I personally like running around those maps with soldiers, not zerkers BUT my build is still the same skills and traits because it’s a perfect combination of dps, support and control for my profession.

There is no way in this game to implement pure support builds because dodge is your best friend and when you best friend is drunk you have your second best friend aegis. Both of these features don’t need to go full nuclear with support traits or stats.

PvP on the other hand has more support/tank oriented builds and they serve their purpose.

I am beginning to think that all those people begging for trinity simply cannot cope with having to do everything themselves and want GW2 nerfed to the trinity level…

maddoctor.2738:

~25 Stacks of Vulnerability, there are builds who can do this on their own, or the party can focus on going this route.
~25 Stacks of Might, same as the above, there are builds who can reach this on their own, but it’s better sometimes to have multiple party members to do it
~perma Fury, this is harder to achieve with one person, but a couple of players can keep it up forever
~Blinds, useful in some encounters, having blind fields is important
~Stealth, useful to save team mates and for runs
~Fire Fields, to stack might mostly
~Water Fields, for AoE healing and condi cleanse
~Blast finishers, to blast those fields for a variety of abilities
~Poison Fields, Whirl / Blast finishers turn these into AoE Weakness, very useful to lower the damage pressure on the party
~Aegis, Stability, Protection, useful boons for any party
~AoE Condi cleanse, important to remove conditions from party members during a run
~Projectile Reflection, self explanatory

If you need a tank and a healer to complete content then the ability to swap specs doesn’t give you much real choice. I played a Healer/DPS paladin and my best friend played a Tank/DPS paladin and our only real choice was to play as a healer / tank or wait around with everyone else hoping a healer and tank would show up.

If you don’t need a tank or a healer to complete the content, then there isn’t any compelling reason to give up the DPS and you have the current GW2 situation with all DPS for all classes.

DavidH.7380:

If you don’t need a tank or a healer to complete the content, then there isn’t any compelling reason to give up the DPS and you have the current GW2 situation with all DPS for all classes.

No. We have dps/support/control all-in-one BUILDS buffed with dps GEAR.

And dps GEAR is you CHOICE. You can complete your content with soldiers or clerics but trust me your traits or skills won’t be much different to what would you use in zerker GEAR.

PPL pls gear=/=build

The game is totally allow building tanky or powerful healer. However, there is no formula allow a sure way to maintain hate for holding argo. This is to ensure there is no single class or build that is infact REQUIRED to succeed in contents. All build or stat combo viable more or less are killing speed.

Zerker issues is to blame players’ mind. Trinity is not a solution but just a lazy and boring combat system. Improvement is needed but trinity is and will never be the answer.

segman.3560:

There is no way in this game to implement pure support builds because dodge is your best friend and when you best friend is drunk you have your second best friend aegis. Both of these features don’t need to go full nuclear with support traits or stats.

There is an easy way to implement pure support builds. The devs design encounters where support plays the predominant role with some minor help from control and damage. Since all classes can fill every single role the game should encourage this with encounters covering the spectrum from 5 dps-driven players to 5 support-driven ones as the most efficient group composition.

The only improvement here needed is … Wait for it…
Wait for it…

Drum roll please…

learn to play your class and master it’s role

So in a nutshell- the answer is:
YOU!

Stop demanding that the game changes when you clearly don’t understand how the game is built to make it something else. Go learn how to fight every mob naked with no armor so you don’t take damage (active defense). Healing is and should be a last resort ! (Part of the manifesto of the game). Damage is what you do whilst using active Defenses.

Healer only roles are only carrying your fellow team members and performing only 1/3 of the trinity of gw2 (support, control, damage) . You need to improve and learn to play the game as designed if this is you !

Belenwyn.8674:

segman.3560:

There is no way in this game to implement pure support builds because dodge is your best friend and when you best friend is drunk you have your second best friend aegis. Both of these features don’t need to go full nuclear with support traits or stats.

There is an easy way to implement pure support builds. The devs design encounters where support plays the predominant role with some minor help from control and damage. Since all classes can fill every single role the game should encourage this with encounters covering the spectrum from 5 dps-driven players to 5 support-driven ones as the most efficient group composition.

It already does. 5-support players is the current meta not dps.

It’s a well known fact in the dungeon meta that Necromancers don’t find much use in speed clears, have you ever wondered why? I will give you a hint: it’s not their DPS

Edit: thought it was just another omg-i-needz-trinity topic. Read before replying. Bad omai

Bryzy.2719:

Now this sounds like trinity, I know, because it would be a requirement of tank/heal-support/DPS elements within the game. But is it? Referring to my definition of trinity (as I understand it) – trinity means you are STUCK in that role for your whole game experience. But in GW2, you wouldn’t be. Given the profession/build system, you would have the choice as to whether or not you were the member of the team who became the tank or the DPSer, for example.

That may be how you define the trinity, but here is how i define it.

When any hard group content requires a dedicated tank, a dedicated healer and several dps. By dedicated tank i mean someone who can tank for a long period of time and usually needs outside help to survive (healer healing them dps killing stuff). If any non-tank tries to tank a mob or boss in this harder content they will end up getting 1-2 shot. A dedicated healer is someone with more then minor healing so if damage on the tank and group is continous then healing has to be able to go out continously. Pretty much the way WoW is without crazy power creep. I dont see it as something that has to do with a class/profession choice that you made and a choice that you are stuck with for as long as you are playing the game.

I’m willing to bet that most (or all) of the people asking for a trinity system is looking for exactly what i mentioned. They arent looking to redefine the term “trinity” for GW2. They want the same trinity that they see in other games like WoW or SWTOR and they want it here too. And in those other games they have things like dual spec now. Back in the day if you wanted to tank you were stuck in that role, unless you wanted to go back to the capital city, pay for a respec or something. But now you can switch specs on the fly right in a dungeon or raid, and swap to your offspec gear.

Now me personally? i like the trinity system and i dont mind it, but i dont want it here in GW2. The pros of adding it in right now dont outweigh the cons. For starters the game wasnt designed with the trinity system and asking for one is a major design change. Tanking and healing professions may have to go through some major changes first. DPS can just pew pew like they always have been. But boss/mob damage on tanks will probably increase and so tanking stats will probably have to change. And when that happens healing output and maybe even healing mechanics will have to change too. And what do you think it would do to queue times for dungeons and raids? Ohh the Shadow Behemoth is up? well you cant start it until you have 3 tanks, 5 healers and XX number of dps. Have to wait a while before you can do a dungeon because all you have is 3 dps and you need a tank and healer. WoW may have dungeon queues that pop after 7-10 minutes of waiting but that doesnt mean that a GW2 trinity system will have the same wait times for group content. There are differences in population and profession differences that could cause GW2 wait times to be either a lot lower or worse a lot higher. There is no way to accurately predict what will happen to GW2 wait times. Anyways i think that a GW2 trinity system has too much of a potential to kill the game. If i feel the itch to tank something then i’ll go play WoW instead…

maddoctor.2738:

It already does. 5-support players is the current meta not dps.

It’s a well known fact in the dungeon meta that Necromancers don’t find much use in speed clears, have you ever wondered why? I will give you a hint: it’s not their DPS

What are the builds of these 5 support players? Is it focused on highest support output like highest healing power, boon and condition duration? Are weapons traits and skills are chosen to optimise the support? Do they use runes and sigils with focus on support?

TPMN.1483:

Gw2 does not have professions it has classes… The role each class can play is DPS, support and heal.

If you want a profession based game – try gw1 or another MMO.

Actually it does have professions. What most people call Classes are called professions in this game.

And no, the roles are Damage, Support and Control. Healing comes under support.

Belenwyn.8674:

maddoctor.2738:

It already does. 5-support players is the current meta not dps.

It’s a well known fact in the dungeon meta that Necromancers don’t find much use in speed clears, have you ever wondered why? I will give you a hint: it’s not their DPS

What are the builds of these 5 support players? Is it focused on highest support output like highest healing power, boon and condition duration? Are weapons traits and skills are chosen to optimise the support? Do they use runes and sigils with focus on support?

Pure Support:

~25 Stacks of Vulnerability, there are builds who can do this on their own, or the party can focus on going this route.
~25 Stacks of Might, same as the above, there are builds who can reach this on their own, but it’s better sometimes to have multiple party members to do it
~perma Fury, this is harder to achieve with one person, but a couple of players can keep it up forever
~Blinds, useful in some encounters, having blind fields is important
~Stealth, useful to save team mates and for runs
~Fire Fields, to stack might mostly
~Water Fields, for AoE healing and condi cleanse
~Blast finishers, to blast those fields for a variety of abilities
~Poison Fields, Whirl / Blast finishers turn these into AoE Weakness, very useful to lower the damage pressure on the party
~Aegis, Stability, Protection, useful boons for any party
~AoE Condi cleanse, important to remove conditions from party members during a run
~Projectile Reflection, self explanatory

Even if you don’t want to admit it, this is all support.

I would claim that Blinds and Stealth falls more under the Control label than under the Support one.

Same with Reflections.

lordkrall.7241:

I would claim that Blinds and Stealth falls more under the Control label than under the Support one.

Same with Reflections.

It always depends on the definition. But certainly they are not under “Damage” and the same goes even for Might and Vulnerability, they are effects that increase Damage, they are not dealing damage directly.

Another question for you guys (again this is all postulation and “what if?”, not what I personally want):

What would you make of it, if Anet did release content with HoT that was more challenging and different to current PvE content to the extent that it required these build variations within teams for it to be completed successfully? In other words, if it forced the playerbase to think more about how they should be supporting their team mates in combat, more-so than their damage output and individually trying to stay alive? This is just one example scenario; others could perhaps make players focus on pure damage output. What would the community make of such an addition (I won’t say “change” as it would be entirely new content).

Isn’t this just the exact same topic of your other thread that was locked? It’s against rules of conduct to open another thread on the same topic that was locked.

Lazaar.9123:

Isn’t this just the exact same topic of your other thread that was locked?

Nah, that one was more specific to support builds, and in that thread I was expressing my own opinion as to what I wanted to see in the game. This thread’s purpose is to gain an understanding of what profession systems could be in the game, and how those theoretical systems would be perceived by the community. No opinion from OP.

Also, that thread wasn’t locked because of the topic. It was locked because of the heated debate that was started by respondents. Kindly refrain from bringing any ad hominem or aggravating posts into this one.

I would welcome group content that offers more tasks for the group members. Especially if the content is made for more than 5 players. Encounters that favors (not requires) a broader build variety would be nice.

The enforcement put by a certain group of players to use a certain build with a certain class will come from alone.

Well, on topic, my personal advice would not be to use words like “required” or “forced”, as that will only be responded with negativity.

Bryzy.2719:

Another question for you guys (again this is all postulation and “what if?”, not what I personally want):

What would you make of it, if Anet did release content with HoT that was more challenging and different to current PvE content to the extent that it required these build variations within teams for it to be completed successfully? In other words, if it forced the playerbase to think more about how they should be supporting their team mates in combat, more-so than their damage output and individually trying to stay alive? This is just one example scenario; others could perhaps make players focus on pure damage output. What would the community make of such an addition (I won’t say “change” as it would be entirely new content).

I always welcome more challenging content and if you don’t know, whole “zerk meta badkittens” likes to conquer new obstackles.

However I don’t believe they can force players to split on roles because there is no reason for it. We can already support each other while also dealing damage so why should my friend guardian stand still and cast buffs while I’m dealing damage when we can do it together with good build composition?

The game would need a whole skills and traits revamp and I don’t believe this is going to happen.

Lazaar.9123:

Well, on topic, my personal advice would not be to use words like “required” or “forced”, as that will only be responded with negativity.

segman.3560:

Bryzy.2719:

Another question for you guys (again this is all postulation and “what if?”, not what I personally want):

What would you make of it, if Anet did release content with HoT that was more challenging and different to current PvE content to the extent that it required these build variations within teams for it to be completed successfully? In other words, if it forced the playerbase to think more about how they should be supporting their team mates in combat, more-so than their damage output and individually trying to stay alive? This is just one example scenario; others could perhaps make players focus on pure damage output. What would the community make of such an addition (I won’t say “change” as it would be entirely new content).

I always welcome more challenging content and if you don’t know, whole “zerk meta badkittens” likes to conquer new obstackles.

However I don’t believe they can force players to split on roles because there is no reason for it. We can already support each other while also dealing damage so why should my friend guardian stand still and cast buffs while I’m dealing damage when we can do it together with good build composition?

The game would need a whole skills and traits revamp and I don’t believe this is going to happen.

Okay, put in a different way – scrapping the “required” element as that’s clearly not going to fly:

How would you perceive it if it was more efficient to complete the new content by using more diverse builds that encouraged team support instead?

Okay, put in a different way – scrapping the “required” element as that’s clearly not going to fly:
How would you perceive it if it was more efficient to complete the new content by using more diverse builds that encouraged team support instead?

I would play it the most efficient way. Is there any surprise?
However I don’t know if you understand that in terms of group play we ARE already encouraged for team support. I can’t imagine doing dungeons without team support because I hope you don’t consider zerg events like tequatl as serious content.

So all in all the support “role” is already heavy required in teamplay and I like it it’s not the tank/healer support.

Bryzy.2719:

How would you perceive it if it was more efficient to complete the new content by using more diverse builds that encouraged team support instead?

That’s the thing though, this is already done, people already provide support to each other. It is already very efficient to support your team. You just don’t need stuff like healing power because of how everyone heals them self instead (something that will not change), and condition/boon duration can be obtained through consumables and through trait lines. The other stat sets have uses in the other game modes, so as iv’e had to post in so many other threads of similar topics, not every stat set needs to be used in every game mode.

Bryzy.2719:

Lazaar.9123:

Well, on topic, my personal advice would not be to use words like “required” or “forced”, as that will only be responded with negativity.

segman.3560:

Bryzy.2719:

Another question for you guys (again this is all postulation and “what if?”, not what I personally want):

What would you make of it, if Anet did release content with HoT that was more challenging and different to current PvE content to the extent that it required these build variations within teams for it to be completed successfully? In other words, if it forced the playerbase to think more about how they should be supporting their team mates in combat, more-so than their damage output and individually trying to stay alive? This is just one example scenario; others could perhaps make players focus on pure damage output. What would the community make of such an addition (I won’t say “change” as it would be entirely new content).

I always welcome more challenging content and if you don’t know, whole “zerk meta badkittens” likes to conquer new obstackles.

However I don’t believe they can force players to split on roles because there is no reason for it. We can already support each other while also dealing damage so why should my friend guardian stand still and cast buffs while I’m dealing damage when we can do it together with good build composition?

The game would need a whole skills and traits revamp and I don’t believe this is going to happen.

Okay, put in a different way – scrapping the “required” element as that’s clearly not going to fly:

How would you perceive it if it was more efficient to complete the new content by using more diverse builds that encouraged team support instead?

The way most players mentality goes anyways is if the devs make a certain thing optional players will make it a requirement. Devs create a fight and say ohh you can have might and it will take you 4 minutes to do the fight, but if you dont have might then you can still do the fight but it takes 5 minutes. And players will say screw that…we’ll always take might, and someone with fury, and combo fields and etc etc.

I dont do dungeons, raids or fractals in GW2 (yet) but in most other games i’ve played that is almost always how things end up working out. And it usually leads to more pre-mades, fewer pugs and longer LFG tool queue times (due to everybody doing premades). Isnt that how most groups in GW2 are doing it now? premades getting setup with good group compositions because they all have synergies that work well with each other.

I honestly dont see why everyone thinks that adding a little bit of a need for build diversity would be a bad thing. Whats actually wrong with needing one out of five people to fill a support role? We’re not creating these posts because we’re “bad at the game” or “need to learn my class”. I have four level 80s decked out in Zerker gear, and its freaking boring. Having the same exact role, and only one required build for each class in PvE content? This is seriously what you people prefer over the trinity? If the majority of opponents of build diversity being more of a required aspect of the game can’t come up with better arguments than “learn your class” or “play a different game” than I would say that there are very few solid arguments to be made.

tboneking.2531:

I honestly dont see why everyone thinks that adding a little bit of a need for build diversity would be a bad thing. Whats actually wrong with needing one out of five people to fill a support role? We’re not creating these posts because we’re “bad at the game” or “need to learn my class”. I have four level 80s decked out in Zerker gear, and its freaking boring. Having the same exact role, and only one required build for each class in PvE content? This is seriously what you people prefer over the trinity? If the majority of opponents of build diversity being more of a required aspect of the game can’t come up with better arguments than “learn your class” or “play a different game” than I would say that there are very few solid arguments to be made.

But zerker aint need its only needed in your own head….. i dont have a single zerker and i do the content.
So make your next class wear what ever you like you will still be able to do content, maybe you even will have a harder time since mobs wont die the first min of the fight
Edit
and i have 7 80s havent felt the urge to level my little engi

tboneking.2531:

I honestly dont see why everyone thinks that adding a little bit of a need for build diversity would be a bad thing. Whats actually wrong with needing one out of five people to fill a support role? We’re not creating these posts because we’re “bad at the game” or “need to learn my class”. I have four level 80s decked out in Zerker gear, and its freaking boring. Having the same exact role, and only one required build for each class in PvE content? This is seriously what you people prefer over the trinity? If the majority of opponents of build diversity being more of a required aspect of the game can’t come up with better arguments than “learn your class” or “play a different game” than I would say that there are very few solid arguments to be made.

Maybe you should actually read the thread then?

tboneking.2531:

I honestly dont see why everyone thinks that adding a little bit of a need for build diversity would be a bad thing. Whats actually wrong with needing one out of five people to fill a support role? We’re not creating these posts because we’re “bad at the game” or “need to learn my class”. I have four level 80s decked out in Zerker gear, and its freaking boring. Having the same exact role, and only one required build for each class in PvE content? This is seriously what you people prefer over the trinity? If the majority of opponents of build diversity being more of a required aspect of the game can’t come up with better arguments than “learn your class” or “play a different game” than I would say that there are very few solid arguments to be made.

perfect post describing why you don’t understand the game mechanics, have you read posts right above yours?

Teamplay requires supporing each other HEAVILY. Meta builds are almost bleeding with support skills and traits but also they can deal damage.

What you’re suggesting here is to give 1-2 ppl at the party support roles and 3-4 ppl dps roles while now all five of them are both dps and support.

I don’t understand this logic. This is going back not forward.

The current implementation of GW2’s meta party builds does encourage team support OP.

tboneking.2531:

I honestly dont see why everyone thinks that adding a little bit of a need for build diversity would be a bad thing. Whats actually wrong with needing one out of five people to fill a support role? We’re not creating these posts because we’re “bad at the game” or “need to learn my class”. I have four level 80s decked out in Zerker gear, and its freaking boring. Having the same exact role, and only one required build for each class in PvE content? This is seriously what you people prefer over the trinity? If the majority of opponents of build diversity being more of a required aspect of the game can’t come up with better arguments than “learn your class” or “play a different game” than I would say that there are very few solid arguments to be made.

Do I need to repost my “support” list on every single one of my replies on these types of threads? Check a bit higher up for a good list of support (and control) options in this game, that these, “Zerker gear” people you find boring, do use in all their runs.

If you are only following your DPS rotation then you are doing it wrong and “learn your class” applies.

Linken.6345:

tboneking.2531:

I honestly dont see why everyone thinks that adding a little bit of a need for build diversity would be a bad thing. Whats actually wrong with needing one out of five people to fill a support role? We’re not creating these posts because we’re “bad at the game” or “need to learn my class”. I have four level 80s decked out in Zerker gear, and its freaking boring. Having the same exact role, and only one required build for each class in PvE content? This is seriously what you people prefer over the trinity? If the majority of opponents of build diversity being more of a required aspect of the game can’t come up with better arguments than “learn your class” or “play a different game” than I would say that there are very few solid arguments to be made.

But zerker aint need its only needed in your own head….. i dont have a single zerker and i do the content.
So make your next class wear what ever you like you will still be able to do content, maybe you even will have a harder time since mobs wont die the first min of the fight
Edit
and i have 7 80s havent felt the urge to level my little engi

But why would I do something that is inefficient and sub optimal? Its just like the OP said, if something is the most efficient way to do things, AND is easier, why would I inconvenience both myself and my party to change that?

Lazaar.9123:

tboneking.2531:

I honestly dont see why everyone thinks that adding a little bit of a need for build diversity would be a bad thing. Whats actually wrong with needing one out of five people to fill a support role? We’re not creating these posts because we’re “bad at the game” or “need to learn my class”. I have four level 80s decked out in Zerker gear, and its freaking boring. Having the same exact role, and only one required build for each class in PvE content? This is seriously what you people prefer over the trinity? If the majority of opponents of build diversity being more of a required aspect of the game can’t come up with better arguments than “learn your class” or “play a different game” than I would say that there are very few solid arguments to be made.

Maybe you should actually read the thread then?

Ok I will

Gw2 does not have professions it has classes… The role each class can play is DPS, support and heal.

If you want a profession based game – try gw1 or another MMO.

Lishtenbird.2814:

I am beginning to think that all those people begging for trinity simply cannot cope with having to do everything themselves and want GW2 nerfed to the trinity level…

[/quote]

Do I need to repost my “support” list on every single one of my replies on these types of threads? Check a bit higher up for a good list of support (and control) options in this game, that these, “Zerker gear” people you find boring, do use in all their runs.

If you are only following your DPS rotation then you are doing it wrong and “learn your class” applies.

No, you dont. Because although these things are technically supporting your teammates, they are not support builds. They are ways to passively increase your party’s dps while maintaining maximum dps and raising your own dps. When every profession/class/whatever you want to call it/ dont nitpick me over terms, is required by efficiency to use one optimal build that promotes the highest team dps this is not build diversity. I am not simultaneously fulfilling every role at the same time, I am now fulfilling the only role gw2 pve has room for: the big numbers build.

Go play dungeons without ANY supportive traits or skills. I want to giggle.

BTW meta is usually the most efficient way to achieve the goal. Show me a trinity game without meta builds/party compositions. I dare, I double dare you.

tboneking.2531:

Linken.6345:

tboneking.2531:

I honestly dont see why everyone thinks that adding a little bit of a need for build diversity would be a bad thing. Whats actually wrong with needing one out of five people to fill a support role? We’re not creating these posts because we’re “bad at the game” or “need to learn my class”. I have four level 80s decked out in Zerker gear, and its freaking boring. Having the same exact role, and only one required build for each class in PvE content? This is seriously what you people prefer over the trinity? If the majority of opponents of build diversity being more of a required aspect of the game can’t come up with better arguments than “learn your class” or “play a different game” than I would say that there are very few solid arguments to be made.

But zerker aint need its only needed in your own head….. i dont have a single zerker and i do the content.
So make your next class wear what ever you like you will still be able to do content, maybe you even will have a harder time since mobs wont die the first min of the fight
Edit
and i have 7 80s havent felt the urge to level my little engi

But why would I do something that is inefficient and sub optimal? Its just like the OP said, if something is the most efficient way to do things, AND is easier, why would I inconvenience both myself and my party to change that?

Lazaar.9123:

tboneking.2531:

I honestly dont see why everyone thinks that adding a little bit of a need for build diversity would be a bad thing. Whats actually wrong with needing one out of five people to fill a support role? We’re not creating these posts because we’re “bad at the game” or “need to learn my class”. I have four level 80s decked out in Zerker gear, and its freaking boring. Having the same exact role, and only one required build for each class in PvE content? This is seriously what you people prefer over the trinity? If the majority of opponents of build diversity being more of a required aspect of the game can’t come up with better arguments than “learn your class” or “play a different game” than I would say that there are very few solid arguments to be made.

Maybe you should actually read the thread then?

Ok I will

Gw2 does not have professions it has classes… The role each class can play is DPS, support and heal.

If you want a profession based game – try gw1 or another MMO.

Lishtenbird.2814:

I am beginning to think that all those people begging for trinity simply cannot cope with having to do everything themselves and want GW2 nerfed to the trinity level…

maddoctor.2738:

Do I need to repost my “support” list on every single one of my replies on these types of threads? Check a bit higher up for a good list of support (and control) options in this game, that these, “Zerker gear” people you find boring, do use in all their runs.

If you are only following your DPS rotation then you are doing it wrong and “learn your class” applies.

No, you dont. Because although these things are technically supporting your teammates, they are not support builds. They are ways to passively increase your party’s dps while maintaining maximum dps and raising your own dps. When every profession/class/whatever you want to call it/ dont nitpick me over terms, is required by efficiency to use one optimal build that promotes the highest team dps this is not build diversity. I am not simultaneously fulfilling every role at the same time, I am now fulfilling the only role gw2 pve has room for: the big numbers build.
[/quote]

So its not about diversity at all its about being optimal then go zerker since thats what it is and stop complaining.

If you want to play any other way do that since the game support it, making something else optimal and the next group will come around why i cant i control my enemys to death i want to stun lock in pve and pvp implement this for build diviersty.

Bryzy.2719:

Okay, put in a different way – scrapping the “required” element as that’s clearly not going to fly:

How would you perceive it if it was more efficient to complete the new content by using more diverse builds that encouraged team support instead?

Ya the ’’required’’ is a super big deal and its the main reason GW2 don’t have trinity. In most modern trinity MMO you can do a great job at two role so you can vary your gameplay and some even allow you to do all three role (that way a tank or healer can solo leveling more easily). So that wasn’t really the problem with Trinity game that pushed Anet to change their system. The main problem was the specialisation of role inside an instance. You are required you have a specific composition to complete a dungeon and that end up being ‘’Looking for a tank’’ or ‘’Looking for a healer’’ for a long time. Especially tank since that’s not a role that a lot of ppl like to play. They changed tank a bit in WoW for exemple to make it more appealing so more ppl would play it. But the problem stay the same. You gonna have to wait for a specific role to show up and complete your party.

To answer your question. If they added more difficult content, I would be SO HAPPY. I want more challenge. But it wouldn’t change how ’’WE’’ play very much. We already bring a tonne of support, we would just bring a little bit more. We already bring might, fury, vulnerabilty, stealth, reflection and condition removal in most dungeon. In harder combat like Archdiviner we bring protection and weakness. If content what even more difficult we would find a way and would be awesome for us to do so. But we would problem make sure to keep 100% weakness on the boss, bring more vigor, sigil of energy, the right potion and food, etc. We wouldn’t change our gear because stats don’t affect support, we would change our build, but we already developed more support build for most profession, they would be some change, but they would be minor. The only difference is that we would bring more of what is already developed. Remember that most support have cooldown. 5 ppl doing both support and dps is more efficient than 4 dps and 1 full support. And its more fun

segman.3560:

Go play dungeons without ANY supportive traits or skills. I want to giggle.

BTW meta is usually the most efficient way to achieve the goal. Show me a trinity game without meta builds/party compositions. I dare, I double dare you.

I actually did the other day, I ran all three paths of AC with zerker necros and it was on par with the normal run throughs I have of that dungeon. So giggle away (actually it was hilarious, 5 lich forms all powering through bosses was great).

Im not saying there wont be a meta, what Im trying to say is that if the meta WAS say 3 dps, a support and a cc, that any profession could potentially fill these roles, therefore allowing for at least 3 builds per profession instead of the current one. We would effectively triple the amount of pve builds currently in game, which sounds much more engaging to me.

tboneking.2531:

No, you dont. Because although these things are technically supporting your teammates, they are not support builds. They are ways to passively increase your party’s dps while maintaining maximum dps and raising your own dps. When every profession/class/whatever you want to call it/ dont nitpick me over terms, is required by efficiency to use one optimal build that promotes the highest team dps this is not build diversity. I am not simultaneously fulfilling every role at the same time, I am now fulfilling the only role gw2 pve has room for: the big numbers build.

Half the list is not about damage if you take your time to read it. Sometimes you have to sacrifice personal DPS to give more DPS to the group (Phalanx Warrior), very specific builds that maximize Might exist in the game and although Might is used to deal more damage that doesn’t make it any less “Support”

segman.3560:

Go play dungeons without ANY supportive traits or skills. I want to giggle.

BTW meta is usually the most efficient way to achieve the goal. Show me a trinity game without meta builds/party compositions. I dare, I double dare you.

Since people even claim support build are the meta and support plays the dominant role people should run dungeons exclusively with supportive (weapon)skills and traits. No damage causing utilities and elites are slotted.

Belenwyn.8674:

segman.3560:

Go play dungeons without ANY supportive traits or skills. I want to giggle.

BTW meta is usually the most efficient way to achieve the goal. Show me a trinity game without meta builds/party compositions. I dare, I double dare you.

Since people even claim support build are the meta and support plays the dominant role people should run dungeons exclusively with supportive (weapon)skills and traits. No damage causing utilities and elites are slotted.

All full Berserker groups are like that. Maximizing party Support and party Damage at the same time.

tboneking.2531:

Because although these things are technically supporting your teammates, they are not support builds. They are ways to passively increase your party’s dps while maintaining maximum dps and raising your own dps. When every profession/class/whatever you want to call it/ dont nitpick me over terms, is required by efficiency to use one optimal build that promotes the highest team dps this is not build diversity. I am not simultaneously fulfilling every role at the same time, I am now fulfilling the only role gw2 pve has room for: the big numbers build.

Translation: I understand those things are actually support but since it destroys my argument I will choose to ignore it and pretend I don’t know. Also, I am a confused boy and don’t know that gear prefix doesn’t define a build.

The original OP already tried this earlier this week : https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Will-PvE-give-more-value-to-support-builds

Please check the forum rules – posting for the same thing over and over again is like flogging a dead horse. It still won’t move or go any faster

tboneking.2531:

therefore allowing for at least 3 builds per profession instead of the current one.

And this statement right here is why people should l2p before QQing about “meta”.
I would bother to explain why, but last time i got called a fascist so.. GL.

hybrid.5027:

tboneking.2531:

Because although these things are technically supporting your teammates, they are not support builds. They are ways to passively increase your party’s dps while maintaining maximum dps and raising your own dps. When every profession/class/whatever you want to call it/ dont nitpick me over terms, is required by efficiency to use one optimal build that promotes the highest team dps this is not build diversity. I am not simultaneously fulfilling every role at the same time, I am now fulfilling the only role gw2 pve has room for: the big numbers build.

Translation: I understand those things are actually support but since it destroys my argument I will choose to ignore it and pretend I don’t know. Also, I am a confused boy and don’t know that gear prefix doesn’t define a build.

Translation: Instead of offering valid counter arguments I will attempt to tarnish this guys reputation to discredit anything he’s trying to say. Also maybe if I start insulting people this thread will get locked too and we can start this whole process all over again.

tboneking.2531:

Im not saying there wont be a meta, what Im trying to say is that if the meta WAS say 3 dps, a support and a cc, that any profession could potentially fill these roles, therefore allowing for at least 3 builds per profession instead of the current one. We would effectively triple the amount of pve builds currently in game, which sounds much more engaging to me.

And it would be EXACTLY like the trinity. You would see ‘’Looking for a CC’’ or ‘’Looking for a Support’’ in the LFG and ppl would have to wait for a specific role to show up or they wouldn’t be able to complete the content. If everybody could do all those tree role, but would need a complete new build for doing so, then anybody could join, but they would have to change their build completely each time. Change weapons and trait? I could like with that, but that’s pretty much what happen already except that you don’t NEED to change weapons and trait if you don’t want to. Maybe its not enough of a build change and they would need different gear? Then ppl are suppose to bring 2 or 3 different gear when they run dungeon? If they don’t then you get back to the problem of waiting for a specific role that Anet tried to get AWAY from.

It would give more diversity you say?? Most profession have 2-5 different meta build for different situation. My guardian have a dps build, a build against big boss, a reflect build and a support build. With that new system, will I only use my support build all the time or my team wouldn’t be able to stay alive? DPS profession would only have 1 build, the best DPS they can bring. Will the Warrior be only GS camping with full signet? He don’t need support he’s a dps, so no banner, no phalanx, no mace? This is really more diversity?

tboneking.2531:

hybrid.5027:

tboneking.2531:

Because although these things are technically supporting your teammates, they are not support builds. They are ways to passively increase your party’s dps while maintaining maximum dps and raising your own dps. When every profession/class/whatever you want to call it/ dont nitpick me over terms, is required by efficiency to use one optimal build that promotes the highest team dps this is not build diversity. I am not simultaneously fulfilling every role at the same time, I am now fulfilling the only role gw2 pve has room for: the big numbers build.

Translation: I understand those things are actually support but since it destroys my argument I will choose to ignore it and pretend I don’t know. Also, I am a confused boy and don’t know that gear prefix doesn’t define a build.

Translation: Instead of offering valid counter arguments I will attempt to tarnish this guys reputation to discredit anything he’s trying to say. Also maybe if I start insulting people this thread will get locked too and we can start this whole process all over again.

You were already given the answer dude. You willfully chose to disregard it. When you willfully disregard the answer you should expect people to point that out. No one is insulting you or tarnishing your non-existent reputation. You made an ignorant statement and then got mad when that was explained. You can either grow up and accept it or you can make more QQ posts about it. Your choice.

tboneking.2531:

I honestly dont see why everyone thinks that adding a little bit of a need for build diversity would be a bad thing. Whats actually wrong with needing one out of five people to fill a support role? We’re not creating these posts because we’re “bad at the game” or “need to learn my class”. I have four level 80s decked out in Zerker gear, and its freaking boring. Having the same exact role, and only one required build for each class in PvE content? This is seriously what you people prefer over the trinity? If the majority of opponents of build diversity being more of a required aspect of the game can’t come up with better arguments than “learn your class” or “play a different game” than I would say that there are very few solid arguments to be made.

Having zerker stats doesn’t mean you are going to be DPS focused. That’s why people need guardians in their groups for the defensive support. That’s why you need ele for the highest dps and Warriors for their offensive support. Other classes fit in the meta too, however, some are better than others in Pve and the same goes for Pvp.

This isn’t something new. GW1 was hardly balanced at all and few class-combinations became majorly used because of how op they were. GW1 fans will tell you ‘’well, you could play other roles too’‘. Well, you can do it here too. The whole ’’OMFG, GW1 and other games are so complex and diverse’’ is in the first a place a lie that you want to trick yourself with. GW1 and most other MMOs have meta builds that most people used to follow. If you want to be less effecient, sure.. you can use other builds. However, you can do that in GW2 too.

There is nothing called ‘’GW2 is only about DPS’’. Every class in GW2 is a DPS, a healer and a support at the same time. Some are better than others at one of these specs in addition to other unique mechanics that may make one of the classes more rewarding than other.

Why are the bosses easy? It is not because of the meta. It is because of the rage everytime Anet introduces anything ’’hard’’. People raged when the Teq was released. And alot of people complain that LS 2 is too hard and should be nerfed. LS2 is hardly challenging and Anet could added boss fights that are far more complex and enjoyable than Teq. The question is if there is a target audience that will actually like this.

Since Anet’s philosophy that all players should have a nice chance of obtaining gear. There is hardly any exclusive rewards. Which will eventually mean that the hard content will be ignored like how none plays that Aetherpath. Not because it is a bad dungeon but rather becasue people don’t play game because they are challenging. They play them to get rewards. And as long as there are two audiences that want the game to head into two different directions, you can hardly blame Anet for their design decisions.