Guild Wars 2

Aniltiger.9186:

haviz.1340:

So eles/engineers don’t stack might?

Of course they do, but what i’m trying to say is that there isn’t enough build diversity and demand on supporters.
Ever seen a group that specificly ask for a supporter? If you have, then it must be rare.
It is because most players feel that a fully dps geared and traited players is more beneficial in a group.

Reflect? Aegis? Condition Removal? Banners? Empowered Allies? Conjure weapons? Spotter? Frost Spirit? Blind? Stealth? Boons like might, fury, protection(fractals)?

Just because there isn’t a dedicated support role doesn’t mean support doesn’t exist. In the same light just because you can’t have a dedicated person just putting out CC doesn’t mean CC isn’t effective or doesn’t exist.

Fact is these support and defensive abilities are amazing when used properly. The problem comes from PuGs. You can’t expect them to use certain things well nor will they listen and switch something to benefit your team. Support/Defensive abilities exist and they are used to their maximum effect in coordinated groups.

Aniltiger.9186:

Nerfing Zerker won’t solve the problem. What the developers should do is to make support more attractive in groups. Basicly, if you got a supporter in your group, you’ll do more damage. And if you would have another type of supporter, then you will take less health damage etc.
That is one of the reasons why Mesmers felt some hope when Power Block (10 sec CD on interrupt trait) was bugged so it could go trough defiance. They suddenly had an active CC role that would be very attractive in dungeons.

That is was players want. Not nerfs on the most popular playstyle.

that is simply a wrong perception. Support is attractive for groups and support is used a lot by good players, and there is build diversity. There just is no gear diversity. A guardian or whatever can be in full zerker gear and still support, as can every class. I am really not a big fan of the berzerker gear tyranny, but saying there is no build diversity or use of support skills in this game could not be further from the truth.

Clerics is OP pls nerf

I’d move on to either another game or call it an end to MMORPG gaming. Not interested in hitting low damage when I engage in combat on any game.

Star Ace.5207:

Why I feel it’s bad for the game to keep fostering the idea that Berserker’s is the one and only “ideal gear” for PvE is simply because it fosters the attitude of “enlightened players” (those who play GW2 “right”) vs “the bads” (people that don’t necessarily embrace all aspects of meta play for whatever reason-and often, it isn’t just “lack of skill”.) By having one “right” way to play, you are also saying the others are wrong by not playing how you want, and many people do believe that other players are actually “bad” just because they refuse to use whatever would be considered the most optimal gear at the time. Thus, while it’s OK that Berserker’s remains the most powerful direct damage gear, it isn’t good that all other choices are so trounced upon in comparison (which is never to say that Cleric’s should be as powerful as Berserker’s, which is a preposterous idea but one that I have heard before used as a bad strawman argument-“so you are saying that Cleric’s should clear a Dungeon as fast as a Berserker’s!”… no one ever said that.) Edited to add… such argument was just stated after my post.

Yes, Cleric’s/Soldier’s/Rabid’s/etc. are effective in what they do, but in the end, they are not that much highly desirable even for players that love and still use the gear. I use all sorts of gear on my characters, from Berserker’s to Dire (before I am belittled, I know how to dodge, thank you very much) and see the advantages and cons of each-ultimately direct damage is so favored in the game that one uses non-“zerk” gear despite its cons because of its limited advantages (or perhaps for RP reasons), not because we know that it’s the “best” gear for that character.

You’re making assumptions here.

• The game is fostering the idea that berserker is the one and only ideal gear. This is simply incorrect. Players are fostering this idea. In every MMO a subset of players insist on efficiency. GW2 is no different. Changing the optimum gear choice from berserker to soldier, for example would not open up gear diversity acceptance.
• By having only one right way to play… This is also incorrect. Dungeons in GW2 can be done by various mixes of builds. This is less true, afaik, in any other MMO. By assuming there is only one right way to play, you’ve bought into the idea that efficiency is more important than any of the other considerations you raise.
• Eliminating gear-based reasons for some players to consider other players to be undesirable would reduce or eliminate players from seeing others as undesirable. Not going to happen, the criteria for judgment would just change.

That said, I’ve heard a lot of ideas for doing just what you’re proposing. I’ve yet to see one that would do what you’re suggesting — make PuG meta players be more accepting. In fact, the only one that would shake up the PuG meta would be a massive AI rewrite, reducing the importance of active defense and thus encouraging passive defense by making dungeon mobs do more sustained DPS at the expense of burst. That one would have negative consequences not only for players who like active defense, but also for the “less optimized” players you are concerned about.

I think it is a problem with the game design.

You can’t overlook the fact that zerk gear is possible because dodge, invincibility, aegis or block let you take no damage, this render stat like toughness and vitality inferior and meaningless.

Star Ace.5207:

That is all good, but is no excuse to insult others given that a)speedrun players are playing how THEY want (hypocrisy) and b)some perhaps “pseudo” speedrun players actually take for granted that all Dungeon runs “must” be speedruns, and also do not read the LFG ads and join non-speedrun groups to later belittle other players in the group and complain. Some people feel “superior” by sharing the mentality of the speedclear meta, without necessarily meeting the skill level, and they feel it justifies insulting other players as “bads” (clearly, they are just bullies/jerks/insecure).

Welcome to the interwebz. Some people are just jerks whether they are full zerk speed runners or full cleric’s play how you want players. That being said, most of the threads created on the forums are the resultant of people joining the wrong groups because they don’t want to read or do the small amount of work it requires to play with like minded individuals. Just to be clear though, I don’t think it’s right that people treat each other poorly, but I can understand how people get mad and do it when trying to start a group with “zerk only”, just to have 40 people join who didn’t spend 2 seconds reading a lfg description.

Star Ace.5207:

Why I feel it’s bad for the game to keep fostering the idea that Berserker’s is the one and only “ideal gear” for PvE is simply because it fosters the attitude of “enlightened players” (those who play GW2 “right”) vs “the bads” (people that don’t necessarily embrace all aspects of meta play for whatever reason-and often, it isn’t just “lack of skill”.) By having one “right” way to play, you are also saying the others are wrong by not playing how you want, and many people do believe that other players are actually “bad” just because they refuse to use whatever would be considered the most optimal gear at the time. Thus, while it’s OK that Berserker’s remains the most powerful direct damage gear, it isn’t good that all other choices are so trounced upon in comparison (which is never to say that Cleric’s should be as powerful as Berserker’s, which is a preposterous idea but one that I have heard before used as a bad strawman argument-“so you are saying that Cleric’s should clear a Dungeon as fast as a Berserker’s!”… no one ever said that.) Edited to add… such argument was just stated after my post.

Someone else addressed this post above, but what I will say is: If we all know zerker is the best for efficiency, why hinder yourself with gear that isn’t as good if you are, in fact, truly capable of dodging well? It only hinders the group when you have the same skills/utilities available to you but are pumping out far less damage.

Star Ace.5207:

Yes, Cleric’s/Soldier’s/Rabid’s/etc. are effective in what they do, but in the end, they are not that much highly desirable even for players that love and still use the gear. I use all sorts of gear on my characters, from Berserker’s to Dire (before I am belittled, I know how to dodge, thank you very much) and see the advantages and cons of each-ultimately direct damage is so favored in the game that one uses non-“zerk” gear despite its cons because of its limited advantages (or perhaps for RP reasons), not because we know that it’s the “best” gear for that character.

The whole point of the argument against nerfing berserker is it won’t change anything. The next “best” gear will just be what does the most damage. The people asking for a zerk nerf simply don’t understand the game. If they did, they would realize what many of the people in this thread are trying to say.

cranked.3812:

The whole point of the argument against nerfing berserker is it won’t change anything. The next “best” gear will just be what does the most damage. The people asking for a zerk nerf simply don’t understand the game. If they did, they would realize what many of the people in this thread are trying to say.

There are games design in such a way that survival is the utmost important not damage. Unless the developers wish to change the game in such a way that other stats are view as just as valuable, people wouldn’t change either.