Guild Wars 2

For instance I have a sorta friend who has Spark that I’m wanting to buy from him but since I’ve played Eve Online I’ve grown to trust absolutely no one in any online game when it comes to anything currency related.

I know scamming is a reportable offense but I want to know if Anet would rectify the situation if things didn’t go according to plan.

I know of the gold limitation when you mail gold.

They have specifically stated in the past they would not rectify such a situation. They may punish the offending scammer, but any loss is yours to bear.

The TP taxes are your trade off for safe, scam free trading

You can trade directly with other players if you want. However, if something goes wrong, anet will not replace the item or gold being traded because direct trading is not supported. So, do it at your own risk.

Thx for the replies. Will take that into consideration.

You can use a third person to escrow the trade, if you’re worried. For example, if your “sorta friend” reads the forums, you might consider asking one of the forum regulars, since both parties could reasonably trust that person (assuming they were willing to get in the middle). I know of a couple of folks that asked WvW commanders, since they, too, are known, trusted 3rd parties.

Another alternative is that you could publish the terms of the deal someplace that you both agree, so at least if anything goes wrong, there’s additional evidence and the “scammer” would be volunteering for their own naming & shaming.

For me, the 15% savings is too little for just a single transaction. I prefer the security and simplicity of using the TP.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

You can use a third person to escrow the trade, if you’re worried. For example, if your “sorta friend” reads the forums, you might consider asking one of the forum regulars, since both parties could reasonably trust that person (assuming they were willing to get in the middle). I know of a couple of folks that asked WvW commanders, since they, too, are known, trusted 3rd parties.

Another alternative is that you could publish the terms of the deal someplace that you both agree, so at least if anything goes wrong, there’s additional evidence and the “scammer” would be volunteering for their own naming & shaming.

For me, the 15% savings is too little for just a single transaction. I prefer the security and simplicity of using the TP.

There’s the max 500 gold limit to consider though with a middleman. Depending on the total price and whether or not the middleman has accepted/is accepting gold from other account(s), it could range from a day to a couple of weeks for the middleman to be able to accept the full 900 gold plus for a Spark and then be able to send it on.

Allison The Strange.4519:

For instance I have a sorta friend who has Spark that I’m wanting to buy from him but since I’ve played Eve Online I’ve grown to trust absolutely no one in any online game when it comes to anything currency related.

I know scamming is a reportable offense but I want to know if Anet would rectify the situation if things didn’t go according to plan.

I know of the gold limitation when you mail gold.

1. Mail “trading” is at your own risk.
2. If you get scammed, anet WILL take action on it, but at their discretion-
2a. You wont get anything back or be given what you were expecting.
2b. Your “partner” will lose whatever they gained and may or may not lose what they promised in trade.
3. If you want safe trading, use the kitten trading post. That’s WHY it’s there.

That’s anet’s stance.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

You can use a third person to escrow the trade, if you’re worried. For example, if your “sorta friend” reads the forums, you might consider asking one of the forum regulars, since both parties could reasonably trust that person (assuming they were willing to get in the middle).

I’m sorry but that advice is not very good. That is just asking certain people to get caught up in off TP trading drama and can cause problems for all 3 parties involved.

PlayerA.123 says to middle person PlayerB.123 here is the gold for the sword PlayerC.123 wants to trade. PlayerB.123 takes the gold and tells PlayerC.123 I have the gold send the item so I can give it to PlayerA.123. PlayerC.123 never sends it. Now the middle person PlayerB has the gold, no item to send back and looks like they are in the middle of a scam. With the gold send limit now customer support is bogged down trying to sort it all out who where the scammers when PlayerA.123 says, “WTF? where is my item or gold back. PlayerB.123 promised the trade would work. They only sent me part of my gold back.”.

I’m a regular and there is no way I’d get in the middle of something like that. It’s just asking for a mess. Stick with on TP trading, pay the tax and rest easy.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

You can use a third person to escrow the trade, if you’re worried. For example, if your “sorta friend” reads the forums, you might consider asking one of the forum regulars, since both parties could reasonably trust that person (assuming they were willing to get in the middle).

I’m sorry but that advice is not very good. That is just asking certain people to get caught up in off TP trading drama and can cause problems for all 3 parties involved.

PlayerA.123 says to middle person PlayerB.123 here is the gold for the sword PlayerC.123 wants to trade. PlayerB.123 takes the gold and tells PlayerC.123 I have the gold send the item so I can give it to PlayerA.123. PlayerC.123 never sends it. Now the middle person PlayerB has the gold, no item to send back and looks like they are in the middle of a scam. With the gold send limit now customer support is bogged down trying to sort it all out who where the scammers when PlayerA.123 says, “WTF? where is my item or gold back. PlayerB.123 promised the trade would work. They only sent me part of my gold back.”.

I’m a regular and there is no way I’d get in the middle of something like that. It’s just asking for a mess. Stick with on TP trading, pay the tax and rest easy.

I’m sure PlayerA.123 would mail PlayerB.123 and go “WTF, over?”. To which PlayerB.123 would reply: “PlayerC.123 has not mailed their item. Do you want to wait some more or do you want me to return the gold as soon as possible?”

There, problem solved.

Worse case PlayerA.123 can send in a support ticket mentioning the names of PlayerB.123 and PlayerC.123 and let ANet sort out who scammed whom.

And you can still send someone more gold than the limit is. They just can’t take it out of the mail in one go. So there wouldn’t be a problem with a partial refund unless PlayerB.123 was the one doing the scamming.

If I did any trading with anyone off of the TP whether I was the middleman or not, I would want to know the parties involved because I wouldn’t want to be in the middle of a scam even if I was entirely innocent to it.

Seera.5916:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

You can use a third person to escrow the trade, if you’re worried. For example, if your “sorta friend” reads the forums, you might consider asking one of the forum regulars, since both parties could reasonably trust that person (assuming they were willing to get in the middle).

I’m sorry but that advice is not very good. That is just asking certain people to get caught up in off TP trading drama and can cause problems for all 3 parties involved.

PlayerA.123 says to middle person PlayerB.123 here is the gold for the sword PlayerC.123 wants to trade. PlayerB.123 takes the gold and tells PlayerC.123 I have the gold send the item so I can give it to PlayerA.123. PlayerC.123 never sends it. Now the middle person PlayerB has the gold, no item to send back and looks like they are in the middle of a scam. With the gold send limit now customer support is bogged down trying to sort it all out who where the scammers when PlayerA.123 says, “WTF? where is my item or gold back. PlayerB.123 promised the trade would work. They only sent me part of my gold back.”.

I’m a regular and there is no way I’d get in the middle of something like that. It’s just asking for a mess. Stick with on TP trading, pay the tax and rest easy.

Worse case PlayerA.123 can send in a support ticket mentioning the names of PlayerB.123 and PlayerC.123 and let ANet sort out who scammed whom.

That’s my point. More bogging down support with off TP trading drama which Anet has stated over and over they do not suggest. Support issues cost time. Now you have 3 people caught up in a crappy situation. Meanwhile players with other support issues have to wait while support figures out this 3 way off TP love triangle.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Seera.5916:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

You can use a third person to escrow the trade, if you’re worried. For example, if your “sorta friend” reads the forums, you might consider asking one of the forum regulars, since both parties could reasonably trust that person (assuming they were willing to get in the middle).

I’m sorry but that advice is not very good. That is just asking certain people to get caught up in off TP trading drama and can cause problems for all 3 parties involved.

PlayerA.123 says to middle person PlayerB.123 here is the gold for the sword PlayerC.123 wants to trade. PlayerB.123 takes the gold and tells PlayerC.123 I have the gold send the item so I can give it to PlayerA.123. PlayerC.123 never sends it. Now the middle person PlayerB has the gold, no item to send back and looks like they are in the middle of a scam. With the gold send limit now customer support is bogged down trying to sort it all out who where the scammers when PlayerA.123 says, “WTF? where is my item or gold back. PlayerB.123 promised the trade would work. They only sent me part of my gold back.”.

I’m a regular and there is no way I’d get in the middle of something like that. It’s just asking for a mess. Stick with on TP trading, pay the tax and rest easy.

Worse case PlayerA.123 can send in a support ticket mentioning the names of PlayerB.123 and PlayerC.123 and let ANet sort out who scammed whom.

That’s my point. More bogging down support with off TP trading drama which Anet has stated over and over they do not suggest. Support issues cost time. Now you have 3 people caught up in a crappy situation. Meanwhile players with other support issues have to wait while support figures out this 3 way off TP love triangle.

But it is still a valid suggestion for players who do stick stubbornly to not wanting to do the trade via the Trading Post. Find a middleman than both parties trust and work through them.

I do not trade off of the trading post nor would I ever unless it’s for something that’s under 10s and only because I need some now and there’s none on the trading post. And I never need things now. I’m patient. I can put up a buy order. So the chances of me ever not using the trading post is slim to none.

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JustTrogdor.7892:

Seera.5916:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

You can use a third person to escrow the trade, if you’re worried. For example, if your “sorta friend” reads the forums, you might consider asking one of the forum regulars, since both parties could reasonably trust that person (assuming they were willing to get in the middle).

I’m sorry but that advice is not very good. That is just asking certain people to get caught up in off TP trading drama and can cause problems for all 3 parties involved.

PlayerA.123 says to middle person PlayerB.123 here is the gold for the sword PlayerC.123 wants to trade. PlayerB.123 takes the gold and tells PlayerC.123 I have the gold send the item so I can give it to PlayerA.123. PlayerC.123 never sends it. Now the middle person PlayerB has the gold, no item to send back and looks like they are in the middle of a scam. With the gold send limit now customer support is bogged down trying to sort it all out who where the scammers when PlayerA.123 says, “WTF? where is my item or gold back. PlayerB.123 promised the trade would work. They only sent me part of my gold back.”.

I’m a regular and there is no way I’d get in the middle of something like that. It’s just asking for a mess. Stick with on TP trading, pay the tax and rest easy.

Worse case PlayerA.123 can send in a support ticket mentioning the names of PlayerB.123 and PlayerC.123 and let ANet sort out who scammed whom.

That’s my point. More bogging down support with off TP trading drama which Anet has stated over and over they do not suggest. Support issues cost time. Now you have 3 people caught up in a crappy situation. Meanwhile players with other support issues have to wait while support figures out this 3 way off TP love triangle.

But it is still a valid suggestion for players who do stick stubbornly to not wanting to do the trade via the Trading Post. Find a middleman than both parties trust and work through them.

I do not trade off of the trading post nor would I ever unless it’s for something that’s under 10s and only because I need some now and there’s none on the trading post. And I never need things now. I’m patient. I can put up a buy order. So the chances of me ever not using the trading post is slim to none.

Trading off the TP is never a good suggestion no mater what method you use. Anet has stated that themselves in the fact they do not support it.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Seera.5916:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Seera.5916:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

You can use a third person to escrow the trade, if you’re worried. For example, if your “sorta friend” reads the forums, you might consider asking one of the forum regulars, since both parties could reasonably trust that person (assuming they were willing to get in the middle).

I’m sorry but that advice is not very good. That is just asking certain people to get caught up in off TP trading drama and can cause problems for all 3 parties involved.

PlayerA.123 says to middle person PlayerB.123 here is the gold for the sword PlayerC.123 wants to trade. PlayerB.123 takes the gold and tells PlayerC.123 I have the gold send the item so I can give it to PlayerA.123. PlayerC.123 never sends it. Now the middle person PlayerB has the gold, no item to send back and looks like they are in the middle of a scam. With the gold send limit now customer support is bogged down trying to sort it all out who where the scammers when PlayerA.123 says, “WTF? where is my item or gold back. PlayerB.123 promised the trade would work. They only sent me part of my gold back.”.

I’m a regular and there is no way I’d get in the middle of something like that. It’s just asking for a mess. Stick with on TP trading, pay the tax and rest easy.

Worse case PlayerA.123 can send in a support ticket mentioning the names of PlayerB.123 and PlayerC.123 and let ANet sort out who scammed whom.

That’s my point. More bogging down support with off TP trading drama which Anet has stated over and over they do not suggest. Support issues cost time. Now you have 3 people caught up in a crappy situation. Meanwhile players with other support issues have to wait while support figures out this 3 way off TP love triangle.

But it is still a valid suggestion for players who do stick stubbornly to not wanting to do the trade via the Trading Post. Find a middleman than both parties trust and work through them.

I do not trade off of the trading post nor would I ever unless it’s for something that’s under 10s and only because I need some now and there’s none on the trading post. And I never need things now. I’m patient. I can put up a buy order. So the chances of me ever not using the trading post is slim to none.

Trading off the TP is never a good suggestion no mater what method you use. Anet has stated that themselves in the fact they do not support it.

Like I said, a good suggestion for those who stubbornly stick to not wanting to trade on the trading post. Given the chances of being scammed and ANet’s lack of support for it, one would have to be stubborn to not use the trading post. Because not using the trading post is not the smartest course of action for trading an expensive item for gold.

Seera.5916:

Like I said, a good suggestion for those who stubbornly stick to not wanting to trade on the trading post. Given the chances of being scammed and ANet’s lack of support for it, one would have to be stubborn to not use the trading post. Because not using the trading post is not the smartest course of action for trading an expensive item for gold.

Well I was initially responding to Illconceived Was Na who said:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

You can use a third person to escrow the trade, if you’re worried. For example, if your “sorta friend” reads the forums, you might consider asking one of the forum regulars, since both parties could reasonably trust that person (assuming they were willing to get in the middle). I know of a couple of folks that asked WvW commanders, since they, too, are known, trusted 3rd parties.

That was their response to the OP who asked about the risks of off TP trading. It wasn’t about someone that is stubborn and not wanting to trade on the TP. It as a suggestion they gave to a person asking if off TP was a good idea. That is why I said it was a bad idea because every off TP trade no matter the method is a bad idea.

Fair enough llconceived Was Na said this at the end of the post.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

For me, the 15% savings is too little for just a single transaction. I prefer the security and simplicity of using the TP.

My argument is suggesting any method of off TP trading is a bad idea.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Seera.5916:

Like I said, a good suggestion for those who stubbornly stick to not wanting to trade on the trading post. Given the chances of being scammed and ANet’s lack of support for it, one would have to be stubborn to not use the trading post. Because not using the trading post is not the smartest course of action for trading an expensive item for gold.

Well I was initially responding to Illconceived Was Na who said:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

You can use a third person to escrow the trade, if you’re worried. For example, if your “sorta friend” reads the forums, you might consider asking one of the forum regulars, since both parties could reasonably trust that person (assuming they were willing to get in the middle). I know of a couple of folks that asked WvW commanders, since they, too, are known, trusted 3rd parties.

That was their response to the OP who asked about the risks of off TP trading. It wasn’t about someone that is stubborn and not wanting to trade on the TP. It as a suggestion they gave to a person asking if off TP was a good idea. That is why I said it was a bad idea because every off TP trade no matter the method is a bad idea.

Fair enough llconceived Was Na said this at the end of the post.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

For me, the 15% savings is too little for just a single transaction. I prefer the security and simplicity of using the TP.

My argument is suggesting any method of off TP trading is a bad idea.

Unfortunately, there are players who do think the 15% savings is worth the risk (that’s a crazy idea) and letting them be smarter about their bad decision is never a bad idea if you can’t convince them to make a better decision.

Seera.5916:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Seera.5916:

Like I said, a good suggestion for those who stubbornly stick to not wanting to trade on the trading post. Given the chances of being scammed and ANet’s lack of support for it, one would have to be stubborn to not use the trading post. Because not using the trading post is not the smartest course of action for trading an expensive item for gold.

Well I was initially responding to Illconceived Was Na who said:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

You can use a third person to escrow the trade, if you’re worried. For example, if your “sorta friend” reads the forums, you might consider asking one of the forum regulars, since both parties could reasonably trust that person (assuming they were willing to get in the middle). I know of a couple of folks that asked WvW commanders, since they, too, are known, trusted 3rd parties.

That was their response to the OP who asked about the risks of off TP trading. It wasn’t about someone that is stubborn and not wanting to trade on the TP. It as a suggestion they gave to a person asking if off TP was a good idea. That is why I said it was a bad idea because every off TP trade no matter the method is a bad idea.

Fair enough llconceived Was Na said this at the end of the post.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

For me, the 15% savings is too little for just a single transaction. I prefer the security and simplicity of using the TP.

My argument is suggesting any method of off TP trading is a bad idea.

Unfortunately, there are players who do think the 15% savings is worth the risk (that’s a crazy idea) and letting them be smarter about their bad decision is never a bad idea if you can’t convince them to make a better decision.

Yeah but we are talking about the OP who Ill and others have been responding to. That player that asked about the risk. They never said I’m going to trade off TP no matter what. This is not necessarily the player willing to take the risk that you mention. So giving them advice on off TP trading is a bad idea. Especially since Anet does not support it and it is just asking for trouble no matter who those involved in the trade are. What happens if he middle person’s account is compromised during the trade and the items or gold are shipped off to gold seller accounts? That would be one big mess.

Anyway, it’s been fun/not really. I’ve not forum PvP’d for a while. Not that I miss it. I’m tired and need sleep.

JustTrogdor.7892:

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JustTrogdor.7892:

Seera.5916:

Like I said, a good suggestion for those who stubbornly stick to not wanting to trade on the trading post. Given the chances of being scammed and ANet’s lack of support for it, one would have to be stubborn to not use the trading post. Because not using the trading post is not the smartest course of action for trading an expensive item for gold.

Well I was initially responding to Illconceived Was Na who said:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

You can use a third person to escrow the trade, if you’re worried. For example, if your “sorta friend” reads the forums, you might consider asking one of the forum regulars, since both parties could reasonably trust that person (assuming they were willing to get in the middle). I know of a couple of folks that asked WvW commanders, since they, too, are known, trusted 3rd parties.

That was their response to the OP who asked about the risks of off TP trading. It wasn’t about someone that is stubborn and not wanting to trade on the TP. It as a suggestion they gave to a person asking if off TP was a good idea. That is why I said it was a bad idea because every off TP trade no matter the method is a bad idea.

Fair enough llconceived Was Na said this at the end of the post.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

For me, the 15% savings is too little for just a single transaction. I prefer the security and simplicity of using the TP.

My argument is suggesting any method of off TP trading is a bad idea.

Unfortunately, there are players who do think the 15% savings is worth the risk (that’s a crazy idea) and letting them be smarter about their bad decision is never a bad idea if you can’t convince them to make a better decision.

Yeah but we are talking about the OP who Ill and others have been responding to. That player that asked about the risk. They never said I’m going to trade off TP no matter what. This is not necessarily the player willing to take the risk that you mention. So giving them advice on off TP trading is a bad idea. Especially since Anet does not support it and it is just asking for trouble no matter who those involved in the trade are.

Anyway, it’s been fun/not really. I’ve not forum PvP’d for a while. Not that I miss it. I’m tired and need sleep.

But the forum lurkers will also read it and they may not be so reasonable as the OP.

Ill’s suggestion is a valid comment to the OP. That there is a lowered risk if you can find a trusted middleman. Finding one that both parties can trust would be the hard part and you’d likely spend the same amount of time it would take to earn the 15% tax to find the middleman.

Seera.5916:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Seera.5916:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Seera.5916:

Like I said, a good suggestion for those who stubbornly stick to not wanting to trade on the trading post. Given the chances of being scammed and ANet’s lack of support for it, one would have to be stubborn to not use the trading post. Because not using the trading post is not the smartest course of action for trading an expensive item for gold.

Well I was initially responding to Illconceived Was Na who said:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

You can use a third person to escrow the trade, if you’re worried. For example, if your “sorta friend” reads the forums, you might consider asking one of the forum regulars, since both parties could reasonably trust that person (assuming they were willing to get in the middle). I know of a couple of folks that asked WvW commanders, since they, too, are known, trusted 3rd parties.

That was their response to the OP who asked about the risks of off TP trading. It wasn’t about someone that is stubborn and not wanting to trade on the TP. It as a suggestion they gave to a person asking if off TP was a good idea. That is why I said it was a bad idea because every off TP trade no matter the method is a bad idea.

Fair enough llconceived Was Na said this at the end of the post.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

For me, the 15% savings is too little for just a single transaction. I prefer the security and simplicity of using the TP.

My argument is suggesting any method of off TP trading is a bad idea.

Unfortunately, there are players who do think the 15% savings is worth the risk (that’s a crazy idea) and letting them be smarter about their bad decision is never a bad idea if you can’t convince them to make a better decision.

Yeah but we are talking about the OP who Ill and others have been responding to. That player that asked about the risk. They never said I’m going to trade off TP no matter what. This is not necessarily the player willing to take the risk that you mention. So giving them advice on off TP trading is a bad idea. Especially since Anet does not support it and it is just asking for trouble no matter who those involved in the trade are.

Anyway, it’s been fun/not really. I’ve not forum PvP’d for a while. Not that I miss it. I’m tired and need sleep.

But the forum lurkers will also read it and they may not be so reasonable as the OP.

Ill’s suggestion is a valid comment to the OP. That there is a lowered risk if you can find a trusted middleman. Finding one that both parties can trust would be the hard part and you’d likely spend the same amount of time it would take to earn the 15% tax to find the middleman.

Caught me before edit.

What happens if the middle person’s account is compromised during the trade and the items or gold are shipped off to gold seller accounts or just deleted by some person for the heck of it? That would be one big mess where everyone gets burned. It’s not likely but it is a very real possibility.

This is why every type off TP trading is a terrible idea. There is always a way for someone to get burned. From what I have read GW1 had a P2P trade system and people got ripped off all the time. I can’t confirm it because I never played GW1 but I am sure I have seen posts about it here.

There is no one that can be trusted on the forum, in game, or anywhere for trades. The only safe trade is via the TP and every single person, lurker or not, needs to know that. Off TP trading should never be encouraged. It is encouraging problems.

JustTrogdor.7892:

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JustTrogdor.7892:

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JustTrogdor.7892:

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Like I said, a good suggestion for those who stubbornly stick to not wanting to trade on the trading post. Given the chances of being scammed and ANet’s lack of support for it, one would have to be stubborn to not use the trading post. Because not using the trading post is not the smartest course of action for trading an expensive item for gold.

Well I was initially responding to Illconceived Was Na who said:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

You can use a third person to escrow the trade, if you’re worried. For example, if your “sorta friend” reads the forums, you might consider asking one of the forum regulars, since both parties could reasonably trust that person (assuming they were willing to get in the middle). I know of a couple of folks that asked WvW commanders, since they, too, are known, trusted 3rd parties.

That was their response to the OP who asked about the risks of off TP trading. It wasn’t about someone that is stubborn and not wanting to trade on the TP. It as a suggestion they gave to a person asking if off TP was a good idea. That is why I said it was a bad idea because every off TP trade no matter the method is a bad idea.

Fair enough llconceived Was Na said this at the end of the post.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

For me, the 15% savings is too little for just a single transaction. I prefer the security and simplicity of using the TP.

My argument is suggesting any method of off TP trading is a bad idea.

Unfortunately, there are players who do think the 15% savings is worth the risk (that’s a crazy idea) and letting them be smarter about their bad decision is never a bad idea if you can’t convince them to make a better decision.

Yeah but we are talking about the OP who Ill and others have been responding to. That player that asked about the risk. They never said I’m going to trade off TP no matter what. This is not necessarily the player willing to take the risk that you mention. So giving them advice on off TP trading is a bad idea. Especially since Anet does not support it and it is just asking for trouble no matter who those involved in the trade are.

Anyway, it’s been fun/not really. I’ve not forum PvP’d for a while. Not that I miss it. I’m tired and need sleep.

But the forum lurkers will also read it and they may not be so reasonable as the OP.

Ill’s suggestion is a valid comment to the OP. That there is a lowered risk if you can find a trusted middleman. Finding one that both parties can trust would be the hard part and you’d likely spend the same amount of time it would take to earn the 15% tax to find the middleman.

Caught me before edit.

What happens if the middle person’s account is compromised during the trade and the items or gold are shipped off to gold seller accounts or just deleted by some person for the heck of it? That would be one big mess where everyone gets burned. It’s not likely but it is a very real possibility.

This is why every type off TP trading is a terrible idea. There is always a way for someone to get burned. From what I have read GW1 had a P2P trade system and people got ripped off all the time. I can’t confirm it because I never played GW1 but I am sure I have seen posts about it here.

The hacking risk is no different between using a middleman or not. The second party to send off their item could get hacked or compromised before they send off the item.

And I never said the risk goes to 0 when using a middleman. I don’t disagree that off TP trading is a terrible idea. But I realize that some people don’t think it’s terrible enough to not do it and nothing we say will convince them otherwise so it’s best to make sure that they lower their odds of being scammed as much as possible. And we don’t know if the OP has decided the risks are too great or not. He could still proceed to off TP post.

Since the original question has been answered, “What’s ArenaNet’s stance on P2P trading”, we could probably just leave it at that.

Consensus, OP: Player-to-Player trading is not supported, not a good idea, and may cost you, other players, and ArenaNet goods, time, and resources.

Stick to the Trading Post for a guaranteed scam- and hassle-free trade.

Good luck.

Seera.5916:

And I never said the risk goes to 0 when using a middleman. I don’t disagree that off TP trading is a terrible idea. But I realize that some people don’t think it’s terrible enough to not do it and nothing we say will convince them otherwise so it’s best to make sure that they lower their odds of being scammed as much as possible. And we don’t know if the OP has decided the risks are too great or not. He could still proceed to off TP post.

The best way to lower the odds of players getting scammed is to tell players to never off TP trade no matter the method. That is the only 100% chance of never getting scammed. You keep talking about this mysterious player that is determined to make off TP trades and that isn’t even what this thread is about. It never was.

The OP wants to do an off-TP trade, for whatever reasons they have. The only thing stopping them was how willing they were to trust the other person. They asked if ANet would have their back on it.

People had already responded with the answer: no. I chose to offer suggestions that I have seen work successfully as to how one could set up a trade outside the TP.

JustTrogdor is correct that the only way to 100% prevent a loss is to use the TP. As I have written elsewhere (many times), that is why the TP is there, why the game has no separate P2P trading mechanic, and why ANet refuses to get involved in trading disputes. I even stated my own opinion that it’s not worth the extra effort to avoid the TP to save a mere 15%.

However, all the same, there are still going to be people in the game who are willing to assume some risk to reduce costs and I don’t see anything wrong with it, as long as they accept that the TP offers the only zero-risk trading opportunity in the game, i.e. that they could suffer a total loss by trading outside the TP. Some people find it fun if they think they can pay wholesale for something all their friends bought at retail prices.

So while I agree with JustTrogdor that the TP is the only safe way to trade, I still think it’s okay to advise people on how to avoid the TP if that’s what they choose. And I’m willing to help folks who want to do that, even if I never trade outside the TP myself.

Just to be clear, while some people are discussing hypotheticals, I was not. I know several people who have done hundreds of successful trades outside the TP and a few who used a third party broker to overcome trust issues. In these situations, there were no issues. (Although, of course, I know of others who were scammed; it just didn’t include these high-frequency traders or these brokered trades.)

tl;dr the TP is always the only safe choice and I think it’s worth the 15% costs. Still, individuals have their own reasons for avoiding those fees and I don’t see a problem with doing so & nor with offering advice for how to mitigate the risks.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Seera.5916:

And I never said the risk goes to 0 when using a middleman. I don’t disagree that off TP trading is a terrible idea. But I realize that some people don’t think it’s terrible enough to not do it and nothing we say will convince them otherwise so it’s best to make sure that they lower their odds of being scammed as much as possible. And we don’t know if the OP has decided the risks are too great or not. He could still proceed to off TP post.

The best way to lower the odds of players getting scammed is to tell players to never off TP trade no matter the method. That is the only 100% chance of never getting scammed. You keep talking about this mysterious player that is determined to make off TP trades and that isn’t even what this thread is about. It never was.

And how do you know that the OP isn’t? Just because they’re asking about the risk doesn’t mean they won’t decide the risk isn’t high enough to deter them from trading off of the TP.

I don’t know about you, but if I asked about the risks, I would want to know all there was to know about the risks. That they are the highest if you don’t use a middleman but you could reduce the risk some by using one. And that the only way to be 100% sure you aren’t scammed is just use the TP. So that I can make an informed decision on which is best for me.

Not giving out the middleman suggestion would leave a player choosing the riskiest option if they decided they still didn’t want to use the TP for whatever reason they have. It’s the lesser of two evils and it should be told to players who are obviously considering not using the trading post.

Gaile Gray.6029:

(Ok, guys, no rude comments about the handling fee. I’m talking the straight up transaction here, and it is exactly that: straight up.)

Gnashblades’ gotta eat too.

He’s never been known to renege on a deal or otherwise fail to deliver on the agreed price of a thing.

The BLTP is the perfect middle man and you only go down from there. Anything outside the TP is at your own peril.

Gaile Gray.6029:

What’s our stance? No. Just no. Sure it’s possible. Sure, sometimes it works. But sometimes (often enough to be a highlighted concern) it does not. Which is precisely why the developers created the Trading Post …

OK. I have my own guild hall. Could you please tell me, how should I acquire so many acc-bound items (e.g. SW shovels) without p2p trading with people? Oh, you are probably going to tell me that I should spend whole days grinding like crazy in Silverwastes.

In other words: remove acc-bound restrictions (plus yeah, TP fees are ridiculously high) and I am gonna use TP for everything I need.

koffein.9374:

Gaile Gray.6029:

What’s our stance? No. Just no. Sure it’s possible. Sure, sometimes it works. But sometimes (often enough to be a highlighted concern) it does not. Which is precisely why the developers created the Trading Post …

OK. I have my own guild hall. Could you please tell me, how should I acquire so many acc-bound items (e.g. SW shovels) without p2p trading with people? Oh, you are probably going to tell me that I should spend whole days grinding like crazy in Silverwastes.

In other words: remove acc-bound restrictions (plus yeah, TP fees are ridiculously high) and I am gonna use TP for everything I need.

Your sense of proportion is a bit off. Bolt is worth ~4000g and being scammed over that would be devastating for the seller and a potential windfall for the “buyer”. Scamming shovels at what, 1g per item?, is just silly.

Greener.6204:

koffein.9374:

Gaile Gray.6029:

What’s our stance? No. Just no. Sure it’s possible. Sure, sometimes it works. But sometimes (often enough to be a highlighted concern) it does not. Which is precisely why the developers created the Trading Post …

OK. I have my own guild hall. Could you please tell me, how should I acquire so many acc-bound items (e.g. SW shovels) without p2p trading with people? Oh, you are probably going to tell me that I should spend whole days grinding like crazy in Silverwastes.

In other words: remove acc-bound restrictions (plus yeah, TP fees are ridiculously high) and I am gonna use TP for everything I need.

Your sense of proportion is a bit off. Bolt is worth ~4000g and being scammed over that would be devastating for the seller and a potential windfall for the “buyer”. Scamming shovels at what, 1g per item?, is just silly.

To be fair, there was a case of a smaller guild being scammed: they bought shovels that had been linked, the seller joined the guild, entered the GH, took the gold, and failed to deliver the agreed upon number of shovels. Clearly, the buyers made a mistake in trying to do a single transaction, instead of any of a variety of ways of trading incrementally.

The point is: people scam for both large and tiny amounts, whatever they can get away with.

That said, the trading system isn’t intended to be used as an end-run around the guild system, which is intended to scale so that it’s relatively easy for huge guilds, difficult for mid-sized guilds, and increasingly hard as participation goes down. Guild Improvements last forever, so they are meant to be long-term, substantive investments; not minor taxes that anyone can afford.

So accept that the choice is yours: grind until your spirit is crushed, risk purchasing from strangers, ask for help from friends, increase membership in your guild, or accept that it is just going to take a long time.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Allison The Strange.4519:

For instance I have a sorta friend who has Spark that I’m wanting to buy from him but since I’ve played Eve Online I’ve grown to trust absolutely no one in any online game when it comes to anything currency related.

I know scamming is a reportable offense but I want to know if Anet would rectify the situation if things didn’t go according to plan.

I know of the gold limitation when you mail gold.

What’s our stance? No. Just no. Sure it’s possible. Sure, sometimes it works. But sometimes (often enough to be a highlighted concern) it does not. Which is precisely why the developers created the Trading Post. Safe, secure, and no one gets ripped off. (Ok, guys, no rude comments about the handling fee. I’m talking the straight up transaction here, and it is exactly that: straight up.)

With the advent of the TP, and with all the security that it gives, are you willing to risk a P2P trade? If you are, I sincerely hope that all goes well for you, that you get the item you paid for, and everyone is happy. If it does not, we will not and actually cannot get involved, for a variety of reasons that involve not indicting innocent players who may get caught, tangentially, in P2P trading. (If I have to go into details, I will, but I imagine someone else already has and in my haste to offer advice, I didn’t see it yet. )

So, for trading, I offer my oft-given advice: Choose wisely.

Why isn’t this stickied?
This question comes up often enough, and leads to the same discussion where everyone (generally the same people) say the same thing, with the same arguments.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

The OP wants to do an off-TP trade, for whatever reasons they have. The only thing stopping them was how willing they were to trust the other person. They asked if ANet would have their back on it.

If they can’t trust their “sort of” friend enough for it, they wouldn’t trust the middleman they don’t even know.

Also, middleman scams are actually one of the most common tricks.

No matter what you do, direct player to player transactions in GW2 will always be dangerous, unless you have a reason to completely trust the second party.

From experience don’t do it.

About a year or so ago I stopped P2P trading after I apparently traded with a gold seller even though I was building a legendary with him.

You never know who people are on the internet…

GW1 had a very good (IMO) direct trade system and even then scams were extremely common.

When the trade started a window would appear for both players. You’d each drop in the items and/or gold you were trading and then the other person could see them exactly as they would if it was in their own inventory. Only once the items were visible to both parties could you click to accept the trade, and it would only go through if both players accepted. If the offer was changed at all it would warn the other person.

The most common scam was “accidentally” missing something – too few items, too little gold or whatever and then while “fixing” that swapping a valuable item for one with a similar icon that’s much less valuable.

Probably the second most common was tricking people into selling things for far less than they’re worth or buying them for far more. Either on your own by simply persuading them they were asking too much or using a partner – someone asks for a price check (with no global trade system there was no way to track current prices within the game) and they’re told an incorrect price. Then someone else who “just happens to be there” offers to buy/sell the item for that price. Or even a slightly better price, so the victim feels like they’re actually getting a good deal…until they tell their friends and by then the scammers are long gone.

(I can’t count how many times I’ve tried to sell something, knowing exactly what it was worth, only to get a torrent of abuse from one person accusing me of being a scammer and threatening to report me…then immediately announcing they’ve had a change of heart and since I’m obviously an idiot newbie with no idea how trading works they won’t report me…IF I sell the item to them for 1/2 what it’s worth. Then again I occasionally had similar tactics from customers in real life when I worked retail.)

The TP makes both of these impossible and eliminates most other scams at the same time. Not to mention being much more convenient than sitting in a town spamming “WTS [item]” over and over.

If anet just included a simple trading window like in GW1 (both players put down items and lock in, both confirm, trade goes through) this wouldn’t be an issue.

Shinzan.2908:

If anet just included a simple trading window like in GW1 (both players put down items and lock in, both confirm, trade goes through) this wouldn’t be an issue.

Scams in GW1 were commonplace. Danikats post above yours goes into the detail.

Greener.6204:

koffein.9374:

Gaile Gray.6029:

What’s our stance? No. Just no. Sure it’s possible. Sure, sometimes it works. But sometimes (often enough to be a highlighted concern) it does not. Which is precisely why the developers created the Trading Post …

OK. I have my own guild hall. Could you please tell me, how should I acquire so many acc-bound items (e.g. SW shovels) without p2p trading with people? Oh, you are probably going to tell me that I should spend whole days grinding like crazy in Silverwastes.

In other words: remove acc-bound restrictions (plus yeah, TP fees are ridiculously high) and I am gonna use TP for everything I need.

Your sense of proportion is a bit off. Bolt is worth ~4000g and being scammed over that would be devastating for the seller and a potential windfall for the “buyer”. Scamming shovels at what, 1g per item?, is just silly.

Sorry but it seems we are not talking bout the same … why are people using p2p trading? Two reasons, at least in my opinion:
1) too high TP fees
2) some items are not tradable via TP (acc bound)

Remove those reasons, problem solved. If anyone would use p2p trading after those 2 removed, I agree, their problem.

koffein.9374:

Greener.6204:

koffein.9374:

Gaile Gray.6029:

What’s our stance? No. Just no. Sure it’s possible. Sure, sometimes it works. But sometimes (often enough to be a highlighted concern) it does not. Which is precisely why the developers created the Trading Post …

OK. I have my own guild hall. Could you please tell me, how should I acquire so many acc-bound items (e.g. SW shovels) without p2p trading with people? Oh, you are probably going to tell me that I should spend whole days grinding like crazy in Silverwastes.

In other words: remove acc-bound restrictions (plus yeah, TP fees are ridiculously high) and I am gonna use TP for everything I need.

Your sense of proportion is a bit off. Bolt is worth ~4000g and being scammed over that would be devastating for the seller and a potential windfall for the “buyer”. Scamming shovels at what, 1g per item?, is just silly.

Sorry but it seems we are not talking bout the same … why are people using p2p trading? Two reasons, at least in my opinion:
1) too high TP fees
2) some items are not tradable via TP (acc bound)

Remove those reasons, problem solved. If anyone would use p2p trading after those 2 removed, I agree, their problem.

Except that both of those reasons have valid reasons to exist. Sure some select account bound items might benefit from being tradable but a vast majority is account bound because the entire design around them is based on them not being tradable.

Same goes for the TP listing fees. Not going to get into detail why those are useful since there have been enough economic disscussion in the past, but let’s leave it at: TP fees are a good thing and removing them would hurt the game a lot.

Shinzan.2908:

If anet just included a simple trading window like in GW1 (both players put down items and lock in, both confirm, trade goes through) this wouldn’t be an issue.

No. Not going back in time. Do not want.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Allison The Strange.4519:

For instance I have a sorta friend who has Spark that I’m wanting to buy from him but since I’ve played Eve Online I’ve grown to trust absolutely no one in any online game when it comes to anything currency related.

I know scamming is a reportable offense but I want to know if Anet would rectify the situation if things didn’t go according to plan.

I know of the gold limitation when you mail gold.

What’s our stance? No. Just no. Sure it’s possible. Sure, sometimes it works. But sometimes (often enough to be a highlighted concern) it does not. Which is precisely why the developers created the Trading Post. Safe, secure, and no one gets ripped off. (Ok, guys, no rude comments about the handling fee. I’m talking the straight up transaction here, and it is exactly that: straight up.)

With the advent of the TP, and with all the security that it gives, are you willing to risk a P2P trade? If you are, I sincerely hope that all goes well for you, that you get the item you paid for, and everyone is happy. If it does not, we will not and actually cannot get involved, for a variety of reasons that involve not indicting innocent players who may get caught, tangentially, in P2P trading. (If I have to go into details, I will, but I imagine someone else already has and in my haste to offer advice, I didn’t see it yet. )

So, for trading, I offer my oft-given advice: Choose wisely.

I gave up trust on the TP when my friend lost his Legendary Sunrise off the trading post after canceling the posting and after contacting support they said, he never had it, they can’t tell that he ever had it or made it or have any log of it in the game. So yes, Choose wisely how you trade.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Allison The Strange.4519:

For instance I have a sorta friend who has Spark that I’m wanting to buy from him but since I’ve played Eve Online I’ve grown to trust absolutely no one in any online game when it comes to anything currency related.

I know scamming is a reportable offense but I want to know if Anet would rectify the situation if things didn’t go according to plan.

I know of the gold limitation when you mail gold.

What’s our stance? No. Just no. Sure it’s possible. Sure, sometimes it works. But sometimes (often enough to be a highlighted concern) it does not. Which is precisely why the developers created the Trading Post. Safe, secure, and no one gets ripped off. (Ok, guys, no rude comments about the handling fee. I’m talking the straight up transaction here, and it is exactly that: straight up.)

With the advent of the TP, and with all the security that it gives, are you willing to risk a P2P trade? If you are, I sincerely hope that all goes well for you, that you get the item you paid for, and everyone is happy. If it does not, we will not and actually cannot get involved, for a variety of reasons that involve not indicting innocent players who may get caught, tangentially, in P2P trading. (If I have to go into details, I will, but I imagine someone else already has and in my haste to offer advice, I didn’t see it yet. )

So, for trading, I offer my oft-given advice: Choose wisely.

Safe lol? Players getting banned because gold sellers buy outdated listings for hundreds of gold that were listed months ago. Your detection on gold via mail is even worse, players getting banned from gold sent by friends.

kamedin.4698:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Allison The Strange.4519:

For instance I have a sorta friend who has Spark that I’m wanting to buy from him but since I’ve played Eve Online I’ve grown to trust absolutely no one in any online game when it comes to anything currency related.

I know scamming is a reportable offense but I want to know if Anet would rectify the situation if things didn’t go according to plan.

I know of the gold limitation when you mail gold.

What’s our stance? No. Just no. Sure it’s possible. Sure, sometimes it works. But sometimes (often enough to be a highlighted concern) it does not. Which is precisely why the developers created the Trading Post. Safe, secure, and no one gets ripped off. (Ok, guys, no rude comments about the handling fee. I’m talking the straight up transaction here, and it is exactly that: straight up.)

With the advent of the TP, and with all the security that it gives, are you willing to risk a P2P trade? If you are, I sincerely hope that all goes well for you, that you get the item you paid for, and everyone is happy. If it does not, we will not and actually cannot get involved, for a variety of reasons that involve not indicting innocent players who may get caught, tangentially, in P2P trading. (If I have to go into details, I will, but I imagine someone else already has and in my haste to offer advice, I didn’t see it yet. )

So, for trading, I offer my oft-given advice: Choose wisely.

I gave up trust on the TP when my friend lost his Legendary Sunrise off the trading post after canceling the posting and after contacting support they said, he never had it, they can’t tell that he ever had it or made it or have any log of it in the game. So yes, Choose wisely how you trade.

Sorry, but with all the things Anet tracks, and metrics they have I highly doubt that story is true.

kamedin.4698:

I gave up trust on the TP when my friend lost his Legendary Sunrise off the trading post after canceling the posting and after contacting support they said, he never had it, they can’t tell that he ever had it or made it or have any log of it in the game. So yes, Choose wisely how you trade.

Your friends story sounds less than completely true.

CMM.6712:

Shinzan.2908:

If anet just included a simple trading window like in GW1 (both players put down items and lock in, both confirm, trade goes through) this wouldn’t be an issue.

No. Not going back in time. Do not want.

Definitely not, the tp is great.

I meant more like an additional thing, like use the TP to buy and sell, use p2p trading if you want to swap your spark for someone’s legend or whatever.

Shinzan.2908:

CMM.6712:

Shinzan.2908:

If anet just included a simple trading window like in GW1 (both players put down items and lock in, both confirm, trade goes through) this wouldn’t be an issue.

No. Not going back in time. Do not want.

Definitely not, the tp is great.

I meant more like an additional thing, like use the TP to buy and sell, use p2p trading if you want to swap your spark for someone’s legend or whatever.

I get that, and for some it would be great, but it would create a lot more problems than it would solve.

p2p trading wouldn’t have any risks attached to them (at least for people who pay attention) if there was a p2p trading system like a simply trade window in which both players have to confirm their transaction. yes, here and there people who don’t pay attention at all would be scammed but that’s their fault. however, as simple as it would be to implement such a system (i bet nowadays ever 12 year old kid knows how to program such a thing) it will never happen because anet needs to remove gold from the economy through tp taxes to counter inflation (not that i would work, but kudos for trying).

i’d actually love to see a black market flourish.

zaced.7948:

p2p trading wouldn’t have any risks attached to them (at least for people who pay attention) if there was a p2p trading system like a simply trade window in which both players have to confirm their transaction. yes, here and there people who don’t pay attention at all would be scammed but that’s their fault. however, as simple as it would be to implement such a system (i bet nowadays ever 12 year old kid knows how to program such a thing) it will never happen because anet needs to remove gold from the economy through tp taxes to counter inflation (not that i would work, but kudos for trying).

i’d actually love to see a black market flourish.

One of the biggest problems I see with people today is lack of attention span and paying attention. It would be even worse than it was back in GW1. Thus creating a support nightmare. I highly doubt that a p2p system will ever be installed, the bltc is the evolution.

zaced.7948:

p2p trading wouldn’t have any risks attached to them (at least for people who pay attention) if there was a p2p trading system like a simply trade window in which both players have to confirm their transaction. yes, here and there people who don’t pay attention at all would be scammed but that’s their fault. however, as simple as it would be to implement such a system (i bet nowadays ever 12 year old kid knows how to program such a thing) it will never happen because anet needs to remove gold from the economy through tp taxes to counter inflation (not that i would work, but kudos for trying).

i’d actually love to see a black market flourish.

Load up Guild Wars 1, port to Kamadan (still the most active outpost?), head to the Zaishen NPCs, and try to buy or sell anything.

Try. To buy or sell. Anything.

Your first action upon returning to GW2 will be kissing the ground Evon Gnashblade walks on.

/nothyperbole

^Scamming impossible, just like in GW1 which employed a P2P trading window, with the safety measures you mentioned. Right.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

^Scamming impossible, just like in GW1 which employed a P2P trading window, with the safety measures you mentioned. Right.

if both players agreed to it it’s not a scam. it’s a trade. if one player isn’t paying attention and the other player takes advantage of it it’s the first players problem and fault.

Major Domo.9250:

snip

i am still actively trading in gw1. although it’s not as comfortable as the tp the interaction, the haggling and the inherent risk are factors that make it a lot more fun than flipping on the tp.
also it’s generally more difficult to trade in a game that has only a very small fraction of it’s original playerbase so you can’t really compare the trade volume of gw1 and gw2.

zaced.7948:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

^Scamming impossible, just like in GW1 which employed a P2P trading window, with the safety measures you mentioned. Right.

if both players agreed to it it’s not a scam. it’s a trade. if one player isn’t paying attention and the other player takes advantage of it it’s the first players problem and fault.

Yes and people have issues paying attention and that creates a problem for customer support, which is unwanted. There is no reason to RE-implement a system where it is possible to scam others. The system was the root of the problem. Eliminating the possibility of scamming is a win for everyone.

CMM.6712:

zaced.7948:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

^Scamming impossible, just like in GW1 which employed a P2P trading window, with the safety measures you mentioned. Right.

if both players agreed to it it’s not a scam. it’s a trade. if one player isn’t paying attention and the other player takes advantage of it it’s the first players problem and fault.

Yes and people have issues paying attention and that creates a problem for customer support, which is unwanted. There is no reason to RE-implement a system where it is possible to scam others. The system was the root of the problem. Eliminating the possibility of scamming is a win for everyone.

exclude p2p trading from support. done.
your whole line of argumentation is totalitarian. i reject your premise that every idiot that can’t look out for him-/herself needs to be protected by a centralized superordinate power to keep him or her out of harms way.
the existence of the tp is obviously a necessity but i would very much like to have an alternative, unregulated market with all the personal interaction inherent to p2p trade.

risky? probably.
your own kitten responsibility? absolutely.