Guild Wars 2

How do you intend to exclude it from support?

We already have your unsupported system. Player-to-player trading isn’t banned, or impossible; it is merely unsupported. Anyone that wishes to trade, and is agreeable to the risk, can do so. They just have no avenue of recompense.

As you said, trader beware.

CMM.6712:

How do you intend to exclude it from support?

erm? you publish a statement that every player is using p2p trading at their own risk and anet is neither responsible nor will offer support when the player makes a bad trade due to lack of attention? a bit obvious, isn’kitten

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

snip

the mail system is not a trade system. a trade system holds the items/gold until both players agree to the trade through a button press.

Not going to happen, is what I am trying to say… if people get scammed they ARE going to run to support whether they are “supposed to” or not.

zaced.7948:

if both players agreed to it it’s not a scam. it’s a trade. if one player isn’t paying attention and the other player takes advantage of it it’s the first players problem and fault.

So … it’s the victim’s fault that someone acted maliciously against him or her. Greeeeaat approach to life. I wish I’d thought to use that defense in trials. “Your honor, you can’t hold my client accountable for taking the victim’s purse. She shouldn’t have put it down at the party. It’s not theft, she just wasn’t vigilant enough while enjoying her time with friends.”

If a bug rolls you back right after a precursor drops or if you mistakenly delete something valuable, I hope you’ll accept Support telling you they cannot help you because you just weren’t hyper alert enough to avoid triggering the bug.

You have an ANet response in this thread stating that P2P is allowed, but not supported, trade at your own risk, foolish though doing so might be. So go ahead. Trade with strangers to your heart’s content. Just don’t scam them, because it won’t be the other player’s fault if you get sanctioned for scamming. And by your own philosophy, don’t complain if you get scammed.

Astralporing.1957:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

The OP wants to do an off-TP trade, for whatever reasons they have. The only thing stopping them was how willing they were to trust the other person. They asked if ANet would have their back on it.

If they can’t trust their “sort of” friend enough for it, they wouldn’t trust the middleman they don’t even know.

Also, middleman scams are actually one of the most common tricks.

No matter what you do, direct player to player transactions in GW2 will always be dangerous, unless you have a reason to completely trust the second party.

You misunderstand the idea. The idea is to get an escrow to handle the transactions — “escrows” are intended to be a 3rd party that can be trusted by two strangers, where they can’t trust each other (that’s why they are commonly used in selling land).

Of course, if you & I were to trade and I just said, “Donald, here, will be our trusted 3rd party,” that would be silly. The point is to choose someone who has a reputation.

So for example, I would propose to you five names of people who post frequently on the forums, whose posts you can read and evaluate, and decide for yourself.

Is it risky? Sure, but not nearly as risky as trading with complete strangers.

More importantly, even Gaile admits that people do trade outside the TP and most do so without problems.

My point that is someone is dead set on avoiding the TP fees, there are methods to reduce the risk.

To me, that’s an entirely separate issue of should people go to the trouble of avoiding the TP fees. In my opinion, of course not; everyone should use the TP because it’s safe, it’s guaranteed to get you market rates, and it’s next to 0 effort.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the kids in here insisting, were also the ones scamming in GW1. Why else would you throw such a fit? Its possible to p2p trade with friends through game mail. The BLTC is MUCH MUCH better than the chat spam of Kamadan. The BLTC has what you need to buy, when you need it, no standing around waiting for just the right person, and no spamming ’til you sell what you needed to.

Dinks.2478:

GW1 literally had a two-tier trade system. You accepted to trade, then you submitted items/gold. The other party would also submit items/gold. Now both parties have to hit accept. If either party changes the items they have submitted for trade then you need to resubmit before you can accept. If you can get scammed with that system then support should laugh at you.

And still scams were common in that “scam-proof” system, and support was bogged down with reports. That is the main reason for going away from p2p trading and going to a TP. The 15% gold sink is an added bonus; without it (or Another sink of the same level) inflation would be rampant or drops of all kinds would have to be reduced by the same amount – and people already now complain about drops.

I’ll refrain from comment about your view on those that get scammed, and just hope that you never end up on the losing end of a “hurried” transaction.

If nothing else, the Trading Post eliminates most trading spam. Thank goodness. The game is better off without any Spamadams.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

If nothing else, the Trading Post eliminates most trading spam. Thank goodness. The game is better off without any Spamadams.

GW1 automatically put all trade spam into the trade channel, you could just turn that kitten off.

Also to the response above that people still got scammed… once again I say…. How? All anet has to do is auto direct all support requests about trade scams to the trash because its hilariously bad if you get scammed with such a system.

Dinks.2478:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

If nothing else, the Trading Post eliminates most trading spam. Thank goodness. The game is better off without any Spamadams.

GW1 automatically put all trade spam into the trade channel, you could just turn that kitten off.

Also to the response above that people still got scammed… once again I say…. How? All anet has to do is auto direct all support requests about trade scams to the trash because its hilariously bad if you get scammed with such a system.

People knew how to get around those filters so there was still plenty of trade spam in the normal chat.

There also were people dead-set on scamming. I’d have people put the wrong amount of gold/plat in the trade multiple times over and over attempting to scam me. Look at the link someone else posted with all the ways there were to get scammed using the trade window.

It wouldn’t make any sense at all for them to add a P2P trade window and not support it. If they were to add it they would have to support it. Adding it would be supporting it and they’ve stated that it’s not supported.

Dinks.2478:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

If nothing else, the Trading Post eliminates most trading spam. Thank goodness. The game is better off without any Spamadams.

GW1 automatically put all trade spam into the trade channel, you could just turn that kitten off.

Also to the response above that people still got scammed… once again I say…. How? All anet has to do is auto direct all support requests about trade scams to the trash because its hilariously bad if you get scammed with such a system.

Hence why people started to circumvent the filter and still ended up clocking up the general chat. Are you really going to keep bringing up these “ideal but never have worked” situations?

Same as with the unscammable trade system. It does not exist, period. Your entire argument is a hypothetical “this is how it will work” or “this is how it should work”. All of which gets refuted by actual widespread occurances which have shown the system to get abused and its main flaw: human error.

This in turn leads to a lot more work for the support team. Simply trashbinning customer concerns is a sure way to lose a lot of customer satisfaction no matter if the customer was at fault or not. Which already begs the question, which is more beneficial to the game:

- a system where customer concerns need to be trashbinned
- a system where scamms are kept to a minimum

As was stated, arenanets stance is: it’s not forbiden but not supported. Not supported also means not making it easier for people to get scammed (even if you had 10 confirmation prompts).

Dinks.2478:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

If nothing else, the Trading Post eliminates most trading spam. Thank goodness. The game is better off without any Spamadams.

GW1 automatically put all trade spam into the trade channel, you could just turn that kitten off.

Also to the response above that people still got scammed… once again I say…. How? All anet has to do is auto direct all support requests about trade scams to the trash because its hilariously bad if you get scammed with such a system.

Perhaps, you never played Guild Wars (One)? There was a reason it was called Spamadam.

From the Guild Wars Wiki:

‘Beware of common scams while trading with other players.’

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Trade#Trading_with_other_player_characters

Thus, not a scam-free tool for trading.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Dinks.2478:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

If nothing else, the Trading Post eliminates most trading spam. Thank goodness. The game is better off without any Spamadams.

GW1 automatically put all trade spam into the trade channel, you could just turn that kitten off.

Also to the response above that people still got scammed… once again I say…. How? All anet has to do is auto direct all support requests about trade scams to the trash because its hilariously bad if you get scammed with such a system.

Perhaps, you never played Guild Wars (One). There was a reason it was called Spamadam.

I played GW1, since alpha. Now that we’re passed the nonsense I can say with 100% certainty that if you turned the trade channel off there was hardly any spam.

Ok.

GW1 didn’t have a scam-proof trading system, despite ANet’s best efforts.

• In GW1, there was no way to guarantee you were getting market rate. In GW2 (on the TP), you always get market rate.
• In GW1, there remain several item substitution scams.
• In GW1, unless you cancel the transaction every time your trading partner makes a mistake, it’s hard to tell what they might have changed at the last minute.
• In GW1, you have to be extremely careful to check every single item, that you are getting plat (instead of gold).
• In GW1, there’s no way to determine supply/demand (except for a handful of mats, and with those, you can only guess).

In short, people get scammed all the time and had much, much less information in order to get the best deal they could. People good at negotiating and keeping track of mechanics have a huge advantage in GW1; the advantage is much smaller in GW2.

I do miss the system, because I met a ton of really good people via trading. However, I think it’s worth giving up the bartering aspect that benefits me personally so that everyone has access to the same tools and nearly the same chances of getting a fair price for their goods.

Dinks.2478:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Dinks.2478:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

If nothing else, the Trading Post eliminates most trading spam. Thank goodness. The game is better off without any Spamadams.

GW1 automatically put all trade spam into the trade channel, you could just turn that kitten off.

Also to the response above that people still got scammed… once again I say…. How? All anet has to do is auto direct all support requests about trade scams to the trash because its hilariously bad if you get scammed with such a system.

Perhaps, you never played Guild Wars (One). There was a reason it was called Spamadam.

I played GW1, since alpha. Now that we’re passed the nonsense I can say with 100% certainty that if you turned the trade channel off there was hardly any spam.

Um no.

CMM.6712:

Dinks.2478:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Dinks.2478:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

If nothing else, the Trading Post eliminates most trading spam. Thank goodness. The game is better off without any Spamadams.

GW1 automatically put all trade spam into the trade channel, you could just turn that kitten off.

Also to the response above that people still got scammed… once again I say…. How? All anet has to do is auto direct all support requests about trade scams to the trash because its hilariously bad if you get scammed with such a system.

Perhaps, you never played Guild Wars (One). There was a reason it was called Spamadam.

I played GW1, since alpha. Now that we’re passed the nonsense I can say with 100% certainty that if you turned the trade channel off there was hardly any spam.

Um no.

um, yes.

While I have to agree the TP is the safest alternative, I have to say too that it is NOT an alternative for people seeking P2P transactions.

We can compare TP with the old GW1 P2P system as Anet proposed tools for general trading, but we can not compare them as P2P tools. Because the TP is not a P2P tool.

In other words: the alternative offered by GW2 for P2P activities is mailing. And mailing is MUCH WORSE than the old P2P system.

Do you want the game to be truly safer? Don’t allow mailing items: instead reinstate the GW1 P2P trading tool for that function.

Dinks.2478:

CMM.6712:

Dinks.2478:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Dinks.2478:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

If nothing else, the Trading Post eliminates most trading spam. Thank goodness. The game is better off without any Spamadams.

GW1 automatically put all trade spam into the trade channel, you could just turn that kitten off.

Also to the response above that people still got scammed… once again I say…. How? All anet has to do is auto direct all support requests about trade scams to the trash because its hilariously bad if you get scammed with such a system.

Perhaps, you never played Guild Wars (One). There was a reason it was called Spamadam.

I played GW1, since alpha. Now that we’re passed the nonsense I can say with 100% certainty that if you turned the trade channel off there was hardly any spam.

Um no.

um, yes.

Sorry , but you are misremembering or something, living in denial perhaps? The spam was real and on all channels.

CMM.6712:

Dinks.2478:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Dinks.2478:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

If nothing else, the Trading Post eliminates most trading spam. Thank goodness. The game is better off without any Spamadams.

GW1 automatically put all trade spam into the trade channel, you could just turn that kitten off.

Also to the response above that people still got scammed… once again I say…. How? All anet has to do is auto direct all support requests about trade scams to the trash because its hilariously bad if you get scammed with such a system.

Perhaps, you never played Guild Wars (One). There was a reason it was called Spamadam.

I played GW1, since alpha. Now that we’re passed the nonsense I can say with 100% certainty that if you turned the trade channel off there was hardly any spam.

Um no.

I have no clue what game you were playing but no matter if you had trade channel on or off there was massive spamming for trading. People would get scammed quite often and CS would try to sort it out. Now with the TP CS no longer has to spend the man hours to fix the scammers.

Really there is no argument here for guild wars 1. For starters, you can’t say there was very little scamming in guild wars 1 based on your own personal experience. When players on this post consistently say they were victims of double or even triple scams, then the evidence suggests that with such a quick response to “did GW1 have scams?” is to clearly see that yes it was so prominent that it was not hard to find a person on this forum who was scammed— indicating it to be very very common. Also what more proof do you need other than Anet themselves saying they don’t want to deal with p2p trading scams; this in itself indicates it was a big enough problem for their support team to deal with. If the system becomes implemented then they HAVE TO respond to players crying about losing their items from a scam. This is a waste of resources and time for them and the trading post easily fixes this mess, you can’t please everyone.

Also a side note on trading chat— yes you could turn off trade chat and use general, but the system would be abused because many players would not have chat competition in general chat so they abused the system by taking advantage of people who followed rules. Allowing the p2p trading would no doubt create the same problem in chat even if there were filters or chat channels. Rules will always be broken for those trying to sell an item and make money, just like an annoying solicitor.

Sure the trading post is not always the greatest for prices etc, but it has been the best solution thus far and has created an actual ingame economy that all players can follow, whereas trade chat creates confusion among players who don’t know pricing or don’t follow trading post economy fluctuations. You have a friend who you 100% can trust with a trade? then use the mail system—it is the best way to trade for lower prices to people you trust 100%— otherwise trade at your own risk.

Whenever you are not sure if you will be scammed or not, ask yourself…. why are they giving me a lower price than the trading post? what do they benefit from trading by mail? Sure the taxing, but sometimes you need to do the math and realize that maybe they would have benefited more from the trading post even with taxing— use common sense.

Gaile Gray.6029:

we will not and actually cannot get involved, for a variety of reasons that involve not indicting innocent players who may get caught, tangentially, in P2P trading.

So if someone accidentally sends me Twilight in the mail, I can keep it?
YAY!!!