Guild Wars 2

Browsing through the forums, the topic of communication between the devs and community has been brought up in enough posts. The devs themselves have also indicated that they are not satisfied with how communication is going. As a developer in a different industry, I’m struggling with this in my day-to-day work.

On one hand, I could completely expose my list of tasks, assignments, estimates, and priority. That way everyone would always know exactly what was worked on. However, I know that this would lead to some unnecessary alienation. As a product developer, at times it is my job to know your needs better than you do. It is also very common that as a product developer something I think is going to be simple ends up being much more complicated. I don’t want to be causing people whiplash.

On the other hand, we’ve seen that being very vague gives people the impression that you are being “political,” and, frankly, unreliable.

I’m sure there’s a middle ground, but I’m curious what this community thinks is a reasonable solution.

From experience in other MMOs and in discussions with other players a better way to communicate is through ingame surveys.

True not all will respond but it will be more then those that come to the forums.

Due to personal experience (20 years in a couple of months) in MMOs (MUDs) most players do not come to the forums and are also happy with the game content.

A good example is the recent ascending armor issue we just had. In that you really saw the numbers of those that don’t come to the forums. Over 9500+ responses and over 20000+ views

There you saw only part of those that don’t come to the forms actually do so to pursue an issue.

That is why doing surveys in the game will give a better view of what the players want, like, hate or need

Well frankly Anet is just going about it really dumb. Anet uses facebook and twitter for most of their communication. As if everyone has their phone out or browser out while playing the game at the same time. I would say 1 in 1,000 or maybe 1 in 10,000 sees these things while playing. So it slowly spreads out to the community.

I’m guessing this was some part of marketing ploy to expand their reach or some nonsense.

Why not just use the Website? Big shocker.
How about using the launch program we all have to see when we launch the game? To easy.
How about using the in game mail. Way way to easy you say?

Anyone one of these options except website would bring about instant 1:1 communication rather than 1:10,000.

Come on they claim to lament the way they communicate but they are communicating like this on purpose. Either they don’t have someone in charge of communication and marketing (facebook/twitter) or they are all very dense in the skull.

I actually don’t think it’s best for a game company to make their decisions based on popular feedback. It is by far preferable to be guided by a commanding vision and then evolve the game on its DNA coupled with player input on ways to improve the game. Think about the political process in your nation-state. Is everyone satisfied with the direction the country is going. How about the politicians who try to satisfy everyone? How is that going?

I would be more inclined to want the quality of the content of communication to be improved. “We don’t make grindy games” is a communication I can wrap my mind around. “We make grindy games that aren’t grindy” is still a head scratcher for me. I would prefer for the communications to be clear for the person of average intelligence.

As the prior post alluded to, that 1 thread had over 10,000 posts, and not ONE post prior to the opening page had ANY reply from the devs. Instead, they offer some lame alternative than their OWN forums! (And that AMA crap, the majority of their responses were canned responses as far as I’m concerned) They already control the stream of information to the community HERE in these forums.

Consider this: one of the players took the time to create a thread to get player feedback/questions that they wanted answers to at the AMA. He creates the (extensive) list and posts it on the AMA joke. Why? Why did he even have to do that? Right there, in their own forums, they had this long list of complaints and concerns. Why not tackle that list? Why did it HAVE to be presented at that clusterfark of a PR event? As some of their answers confirmed, they KNEW they were going to have a backlash of complaints. So, why wait until Hurricane Lost Shore hits before you cover the windows and hit the storm cellar?

They have the official forums right HERE, yet the only activity from the devs is to close threads?

Case in point: this post was removed because, I can only assume, I quoted a thread that was closed. SO, I’ve removed the offensive statement, which was their response to closing the thread. Ah well, whatever.

“Constructive discussion?” They NEVER join in the “constructive discussion”. But don’t worry, “going forward”, they are “discussing the issues internally”, they have been informed of the issue and will address it soon, they….insert “empty statement that sounds like they are doing something in order to placate the masses” here!

Saldonus Darkholme.5680:

As the prior post alluded to, that 1 thread had over 10,000 posts, and not ONE post prior to the opening page had ANY reply from the devs. Instead, they offer some lame alternative than their OWN forums! (And that AMA crap, the majority of their responses were canned responses as far as I’m concerned) They already control the stream of information to the community HERE in these forums.

Consider this: one of the players took the time to create a thread to get player feedback/questions that they wanted answers to at the AMA. He creates the (extensive) list and posts it on the AMA joke. Why? Why did he even have to do that? Right there, in their own forums, they had this long list of complaints and concerns. Why not tackle that list? Why did it HAVE to be presented at that clusterfark of a PR event? As some of their answers confirmed, they KNEW they were going to have a backlash of complaints. So, why wait until Hurricane Lost Shore hits before you cover the windows and hit the storm cellar?

They have the official forums right HERE, yet the only activity from the devs is to close threads?

Case in point: this post was removed because, I can only assume, I quoted a thread that was closed. SO, I’ve removed the offensive statement, which was their response to closing the thread. Ah well, whatever.

“Constructive discussion?” They NEVER join in the “constructive discussion”. But don’t worry, “going forward”, they are “discussing the issues internally”, they have been informed of the issue and will address it soon, they….insert “empty statement that sounds like they are doing something in order to placate the masses” here!

Ya this it’s still all marketing. NCsoft long with Anet are in some deep trouble right now Anet was suppose to pan out as a significant boost for NCsoft during the third quarter, which they failed to do. Even now they continue to be a financial burden for NCsoft rather than a boost.

I imagine NCsoft has Anet’s hands tied and Anet is doing all these things as a way to market.

They just totally are throwing common sense out the window and going with marketing, marketing, marketing; money, money, money.

Saldonus and Voldomon,

Okay… I get what you’re saying, but I was hoping to get deeper ideas than just “It’s all marketing.” I didn’t ask “What’s wrong with communication.” I asked, “What would be better?” What would you like to see them say? Specific timelines? Detailed plans?

JaironKalach.4938:

Saldonus and Voldomon,

Okay… I get what you’re saying, but I was hoping to get deeper ideas than just “It’s all marketing.” I didn’t ask “What’s wrong with communication.” I asked, “What would be better?” What would you like to see them say? Specific timelines? Detailed plans?

I would like to see what they say in twitter facebook on the actual communication paths outlined above.

First off we should understand what they are saying, when they said “we should communicate better”. They meant paths (better ways to get messages to the people), and to fully explain things better (not half explain things to where people launch on to the forums and scream BS). Not what should we say. So I think what I would have them say is kind of moot since that’s not what they were asking about.

However since it’s what YOU’RE asking about. I would specifically like them to stop stealth patching things. Like the last patch was claimed as “maintenance” but it was actually a patch against some exploits in the game. Why they hide this information I’m not sure. Shouldn’t we be glad there getting rid of exploits? Are they afraid that if they showed how many exploits they are patching we would think them incompetent, maybe.

I would like a full detailed patch list every single time, I should not have to look for the information.

JaironKalach.4938:

Saldonus and Voldomon,

Okay… I get what you’re saying, but I was hoping to get deeper ideas than just “It’s all marketing.” I didn’t ask “What’s wrong with communication.” I asked, “What would be better?” What would you like to see them say? Specific timelines? Detailed plans?

As I said in my post, active participation in these forums. I am aware they do not want to say too much because they’ll be nailed to their statements. HOWEVER, as I see it now, they are not participating in their own forums! THIS forum is THEIRS. They control it, have supreme access to it. Why, then, not deal with that last mess HERE, instead of that reddit crap? (I already know the answer: you can only use the same canned responses for so long before the fanbase catches on)

You’re saying one thing, but implying another. I find it difficult to believe that even if they said the same things on here as they said on Reddit you would be happy. In fact, you continually refer to it as “political” and “canned.” So what content would make you happy?

I just want to point out the only reason they even said anything was crowd control a lot of people quit because of this ascended gear nonsense. Personally I like it, but apparently a lot of GW1 fans just plain stopped even logging on and as far as I know it is just getting worse.

In fact at this point, players for GW2 have slowly been declining since release, with increases at special event times like Lost Shore, ect,.

Most likely the reason Wintersday is such a long event.

According to the stats GW2 will be in the grave within another 3 to 4 months as a dead game most likely they will begin to remove servers at this time.

This is why they mention communication. When you say something and it makes thousands and thousands of players stop playing, you failed to communicate properly.

Oddly enough as a strange thing Wintersday lasts until the 2013 fiscal 1st quarter is over. Expect a lot of gem items….

JaironKalach.4938:

You’re saying one thing, but implying another. I find it difficult to believe that even if they said the same things on here as they said on Reddit you would be happy. In fact, you continually refer to it as “political” and “canned.” So what content would make you happy?

Who said anything about content? I said the canned responses (yes, they were the same empty platitudes, just worded differently) didn’t satisfy me because I saw them for what they were: canned responses. Make me happy? OK, how about: “It has been brought to our attention that the last update inadvertently effected drop rates. We are currently addressing the issue and will have a fix for it by next week. Sorry for the inconvenience.” Succinct, to the point. As forthe Ascended Armor and Lost Shores mess, they could have tried to do damage control, oh, I don’t know, within the first 2,000 posts, as opposed to allowing it to achieve over 10,000 posts!

You are right, though: if they kept issuing canned responses, I wouldn’t be happy with them. Why exactly would your opinion change if their responses didn’t? What exactly did they accomplish with that reddit mess that they couldn’t have addressed here in their official forums?

Saldonus Darkholme.5680:

JaironKalach.4938:

You’re saying one thing, but implying another. I find it difficult to believe that even if they said the same things on here as they said on Reddit you would be happy. In fact, you continually refer to it as “political” and “canned.” So what content would make you happy?

OK, how about: “It has been brought to our attention that the last update inadvertently effected drop rates. We are currently addressing the issue and will have a fix for it by next week. Sorry for the inconvenience.” Succinct, to the point.

Perfect. Thank you. Let me try to draw one more insight out of you. If it had read
“It has been brought to our attention that the last update inadvertently effected drop rates. We are currently addressing the issue and will have a fix for it as soon as we can isolate the problem and ensure there are no side effects. Sorry for the inconvenience.”

Would that have still made you happy?

JaironKalach.4938:

Saldonus Darkholme.5680:

JaironKalach.4938:

You’re saying one thing, but implying another. I find it difficult to believe that even if they said the same things on here as they said on Reddit you would be happy. In fact, you continually refer to it as “political” and “canned.” So what content would make you happy?

OK, how about: “It has been brought to our attention that the last update inadvertently effected drop rates. We are currently addressing the issue and will have a fix for it by next week. Sorry for the inconvenience.” Succinct, to the point.

Perfect. Thank you. Let me try to draw one more insight out of you. If it had read
“It has been brought to our attention that the last update inadvertently effected drop rates. We are currently addressing the issue and will have a fix for it as soon as we can isolate the problem and ensure there are no side effects. Sorry for the inconvenience.”

Would that have still made you happy?

If they fixed it, yes. If they didn’t however, no, I would be just as annoyed as I would be if I took my car to a mechanic to get fixed, him telling me it would take 1 day to repair, and it took him longer. AND, the longer it took him, the more annoyed I’d become.

But, then again, I’ve been a customer of theirs for over 7 years. I’ve been disillusioned by them before, so I don’t hold them in too high a regard.

Communication to me mean transparency, and well noted patch notes. In transparency, I mean they should give us a better understanding of the systems in the game and when they are changed. Changes are noticeable in game by players, and when there is no communication of the fact it makes people edgy, and they complain about stealth nerfs and what have you. Case in point, drop rates on farming areas, and adjustments to the diminishing returns code. They’ve mentioned it a couple of times, but there have been noticeable changes in these areas of late after patches yet no comment from them, or we see “routine maintenance” after several complaints come on the forums of nerfing or whatever.

Patch notes go along with this, it’s happen on a few occasions where changes have been made, they are apparent to many players, yet they say nothing, or the patch notes come out maybe 30 minutes to an hour after the patch is released, and then only on the forums. Honestly, I’m a 15 yet vet in the industry, and I can’t imagine a developer publishing a patch (no matter how small) without an attached patch list accessible from the launcher. This should be common practice. I shouldn’t have to come to the forums to see what changed, and if I do, then hope they actually made a comment about it. It should be, you log in “oh look it’s downloading something. Oh goody! here’s the patch notes, lets see what this is for…”. Or if you’re in-game when the restart message comes up, I should see what is changing as soon as I restart.

I think this is where they could use some improvement, and yes, there should be a balance, you can’t divulge all systems and plans to players, it’s your game (as a developer) after all and you have the bigger picture in mind. But you need to tell people at least that you are making changes to these systems, because one way or another, someone will notice it. Why not be up front and keep speculation from going rampant? Or I should say “AS” rampant, there will always be conspiracies theorists abound.

. Honesty in conveying information accurately. Warts and all with no half truths and hidden meanings.
. No stonewalling when there is a difficult issue….man-up and face it…it IS your game after all…don’t just hide/ignore your paying customers.
. Factual rather than based on spin, half truths and rhetoric.
. Respect for the player base…we are mostly adult and understand that things actually need to change at times…even very basic things like the “manifesto”…..just tell us and we will help you do it properly.

JaironKalach.4938:

Saldonus Darkholme.5680:

JaironKalach.4938:

You’re saying one thing, but implying another. I find it difficult to believe that even if they said the same things on here as they said on Reddit you would be happy. In fact, you continually refer to it as “political” and “canned.” So what content would make you happy?

OK, how about: “It has been brought to our attention that the last update inadvertently effected drop rates. We are currently addressing the issue and will have a fix for it by next week. Sorry for the inconvenience.” Succinct, to the point.

Perfect. Thank you. Let me try to draw one more insight out of you. If it had read
“It has been brought to our attention that the last update inadvertently effected drop rates. We are currently addressing the issue and will have a fix for it as soon as we can isolate the problem and ensure there are no side effects. Sorry for the inconvenience.”

Would that have still made you happy?

I know you’re not asking me, but here’s the problem I see with it.

The players want to know more. Tell them more and we then want MORE. and MOAR!!!!

Are the drop rates too high or too low? What were the drop rates? What are they now? What are you changing them too? What time next week will you patch it? What’s the drop rate on a completely different item, why didn’t you tell us how you’re adjusting it, or why rangers’ do such low damage? When you said the drop rate was 1%, does that vary by location or level?

The appetite is unending. From what we’ve seen, the developers’ communicative skill varies from not-good to decent, and their capacity obviously is limited.