What is endgame supposed to be?

What is endgame supposed to be?

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Posted by: Chewablesleeptablet.3185

Chewablesleeptablet.3185

Reading on the forums has brought up this question for me. Some say GW2 has no endgame or very little endgame.

What is endgame to you? What I mean is , what is endgame supposed to look like in an MMO?

Is endgame supposed to be the thing that keeps you playing? If GW2 has no endgame or very little endgame then why do people still play after they hit lvl 80 and have reached full exotic/ascended gear?

It has been successfully argued by Anet and fans that vertical progression is not endgame and thakittens just a treadmill that throws back everything you previously earned right out the window. GW1 had no vertical progression after lvl 20 and people still played for 7 years! Myself included.

I really don’t know what endgame means. I play a game to have fun and set my own goals to beating content such as completing a task in fastest time possible, or not getting killed once in a pvp match.

Is it really that hard for players to challenge themselves outside of the game’s own criteria?

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Is it really that hard for players to challenge themselves outside of the game’s own criteria?

For a lot of people the answer is yes…it is that hard.

There are all sorts of different people in the world. Some need to be shown a breadcrumb trail, some hate breadcrumb trails. They’re just different types of people.

To me this game already has too much it pushes you to do. I’d probaby be happier if were more sandbox. It’s not but I can live with it, because I’m still having fun.

But there are people who have to be motivated by either in game rewards, or something else to do content.

It’s not wrong to be that way. It’s just that people are wired differently.

That’s why I always say that when someone says a game sucks, they’re really talking about an incompatibilty between what they want/expect from a game and what the game delivers.

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Posted by: Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

It’s not supposed to look like anything, which is kind of the idea with GW. To be honest it’s a fairly outdated definition or concept about what max level players do once they hit level cap and what they do next to achieve gear etc. This game doesn’t have that – it opens the game out a lot more, which I find a good thing. Plenty of MMO’s have what is a considered traditional endgame content and when I yearn for that type of play, I go play them.

Your paragraph about having fun and setting goals is much closer to the what I believe Anet had in mind when they deisgned the game.

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Posted by: Gehenna.3625

Gehenna.3625

Yep some people want to achieve things, they set goals and what to accomplish them and rewards for effort stimulate this. Lots of people are that way apparently, if I look at the simple fact that all games that I know, including this one, have rewards for activities.

It makes no sense to question whether or not rewards are needed. It’s how you deal with that which is more difficult. My feeling is that this game has enough content to keep you busy for a few weeks. In that time you can complete the world, do the jump puzzles get exotic gear and some ascended trinkets if you care. You will be able to do enough dungeons easy to get an armour set or two together and do some WvW in between for variation. Sure there’s stuff out there still if you do your best to find it but that’s it basically. There’s no specific level 80 activity except getting that silly rng + grind yourself silly legendary weapon if you really want it.

That’s it really.

Now for some repeating a bunch of that stuff works for them. For some it’s rather lacking and as an altoholic I find this game doesn’t have much replay value as far as leveling is concerned. And the dungeons get boring real fast imo.

It still comes down to tastes but GW2 is probably built more around casual players and people who love events and funny stuff more. Could be some people’s taste…isn’t mine. So I can’t get myself to do more than a bit of leveling from time to time. It’s a pretty looking world for sure, but not one to spend a lot of time in for me.

It’s a game forum. The truth is not to be found here.

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Posted by: gurugeorge.9857

gurugeorge.9857

For me, it’s “living” in the virtual world as a lvl 80. I just do whatever takes my fancy, and I can do it all, there’s an absolute ton of stuff to do. Currently I’m invested in getting a set of Rabid armor.

But then, I am a casual player (maybe an hour or two an evening, a bit more on weekends).

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Posted by: Meili Ying.3820

Meili Ying.3820

I mainly come from console gaming, so the term Endgame it kinda different from what I’ve read from here on the forums.

To me, “Endgame” is the point when the game’s plot reaches the climax, and then wraps up and concludes it’s story. Everything after that, I consider to be called “Post-Game”. I considered GW2’s endgame to be when the Hero character defeats Zhaitan. Everything I do after that, Living Story and whatnot, I have considered “Post-Game”.

Now, I believe that this Post-Game that I mentioned is what most here are considering to be Endgame. For me, I think that Endgame is merely content that gives you an incentive to revisit the game, or even keep you hooked far beyond when the Main Game is over. I think GW2 offers a lot to keep players in, mostly PvP/WvW for me, but like Vayne said I feel thakittens not Sandbox-y enough for my creative urges.

Fix the Search Function

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Posted by: ArchonWing.9480

ArchonWing.9480

Endgame is the complete freedom of your characters to participate in any content, and any new content at your own will, and the ability to perform with close to peak efficiency with some effort, without worrying about being placed at a severe disadvantage simply because you did not have time to grind whatever new content is around. It also includes the ability to be flexible, the ability to approach the same content with different approaches, which includes rolling new characters as well.

In other words, it is the point where you are not gated in any way.

The main caveat is that there must be some effort put in to it. Players without sufficient skill and will are not entitled to it. On the other hand, the game should also respect the player, and not arbitrarily change the gameplay or suddenly adding massive new grinds for a new tier. That would just be pulling the rug from underneath them and is not a legitimate means of improving gameplay. In other words, an established player now should be able to log off now, play the game in 3 years, and still be viable in all content, and at the very least be able to catch up to a respectable level within a reasonable amount of time.

For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return.

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Posted by: SalvinValkyries.4501

SalvinValkyries.4501

While I agree with some points being brought up, there really isn’t much of an endgame to speak of. What little there is can be easily accessed and completed. Players unsure of their skill need not worry, as the content doesn’t require much effort. The endgame can be as follows:

01) Dungeons
02) World Events
03) WvW
04) Skins

Now, WvW may ask more from a player, however, it comes down to numbers and coverage. Numbers equate to zergs whilst coverage equates to how often a server can run those zergs, i.e., player logins across all time zones. Simply put, there is no endgame. What could pass as such leaves a lot to be desired.

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Posted by: Fortuna.7259

Fortuna.7259

End game is visiting the laurel vendor. Every day.

LF2M Max Ascended Only!

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Posted by: Corian.4068

Corian.4068

This isn’t the PR answer, but the real answer is that there is no endgame.

GW2 allows you access to most things you’re able to do in a pretty short period of time (hours, really), so instead of having leveling and then a different style of play at endgame, it’s just… game.

I don’t blame people for going through it and getting bored. If you played any non-MMO for eight to twelve hours a day, you’d get pretty bored of that fast too. So GW2 might be an exception among MMOs, but it’s pretty much like any other game in that you play it while it’s fun, and shelve it for a while until you feel like playing it again.

I stopped playing Mario 3 at some point. It’s not a bad game (understatement of the century), but I played it to satisfaction. No dramatic phone call to Nintendo about how I’m quitting their game. I just shelved it, and over the years I’ve picked it up again a few times and continued to thoroughly enjoy myself. GW2 is a normal video game in that regard, and the playerbase will eventually come to understand that.

Hit level eighty
Priorities, what to do?
Spend hours with dye

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Posted by: arctorius.3025

arctorius.3025

If you would have asked me before I started playing WoW, I would have said that you can just get lost in the world, wander about, and spend your time helping others/getting into your own adventures. You don’t need the game to tell you what to do. I was the last of my friends to get to lvl 60 in vanilla because I kept walking around doing my own thing and helping out others. The wandering white knight.

Post wow however there are new expectations and goals that weren’t there in past games. For one thing achievements ruined a lot of that free roaming feeling. There’s now a huge list of things that you have to do to get points so you can get the rewards. And particularly with live story, there’s a ticking clock that’s rushing you into getting them done before the content is over.

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Posted by: Locuz.2651

Locuz.2651

This isn’t the PR answer, but the real answer is that there is no endgame.

The end game you refer to is an illusion.

Its an excuse created by MMO creators to repeat very specific content on a weekly interval. That way you create a false sense of longetivity and progress.

But then again, the definition of end game will differ for most people. Most would refer to end game as “everything you do once you reach max level”. With that in mind i think GW2 has quite a lot of end game.

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Posted by: Corian.4068

Corian.4068

Most would refer to end game as “everything you do once you reach max level”.

More accurately, end game to a lot of players is how you get better gear once you reach max level, which typically varies wildly from how the game plays before you’re max level, i.e. solo questing vs raiding.

GW2 hit its design goal in that you basically play the same game in GW2 whether you’re level 1 or level 80, but that doesn’t mean it’s all endgame. That means GW2 has no endgame. Since endgame is a buzzword and a determining factor in whether the subscription crowd hangs around, they can’t exactly say that.

Hit level eighty
Priorities, what to do?
Spend hours with dye

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Posted by: Chewablesleeptablet.3185

Chewablesleeptablet.3185

If you would have asked me before I started playing WoW, I would have said that you can just get lost in the world, wander about, and spend your time helping others/getting into your own adventures. You don’t need the game to tell you what to do. I was the last of my friends to get to lvl 60 in vanilla because I kept walking around doing my own thing and helping out others. The wandering white knight.

Post wow however there are new expectations and goals that weren’t there in past games. For one thing achievements ruined a lot of that free roaming feeling. There’s now a huge list of things that you have to do to get points so you can get the rewards. And particularly with live story, there’s a ticking clock that’s rushing you into getting them done before the content is over.

Except the living story achievements take no time to complete and as long as you are immersed in the living story you will get them naturally without even knowing. Players are given more than enough time to complete these objectives. I literally spent only 2 days completing both Kiel and Evon’s objectives.

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Posted by: Warruz.8096

Warruz.8096

End Game is content you do exclusively at Max Level , Traditionally that content tends to be challenging .

Why was Crab Toss Removed? – http://tinyurl.com/kvbaakq

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Posted by: Ision.3207

Ision.3207

For many of us endgame is enjoying the game in the manner which we like. Whether that be fighting in WvW, doing PVP, roleplaying with guildies, dungeon crawling for new skins, grinding mats for a legendary, doing some DEs, leveling an alt, taking part in the living story, trying out new builds ….. ect, and on and on.

For others endgame is: Racing to cap level as fast as possible, figuring out which dungeon is the easiest and repeating that dungeon a hundred times till you have enough gold to buy 10 legendries’, raiding high level dungeons for gear that has better stats than what the majority of the player base has, going to WvW with some friends to gank people 4 on 1, fighting lots of 1v1s and losing despite claims to being “pro” players, screaming on the forums for Anet to add even more stat based gear so that their stat advantage can become larger and larger to help mask their lack of skill. And last but not least, starting a dungeon run with 3 guildies and then kicking some poor slob that is not one their buddies from their 5 man group right before the reward chest – then laughing their 16 year old butts off about it.

So as you can see, End-game can differ quite a bit from person to person

Colin Johanson to Eurogamer: "Everyone, including casual gamers,
by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game.
We want everyone on an equal power base.”

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Posted by: Warruz.8096

Warruz.8096

For many of us endgame is enjoying the game in the manner which we like. Whether that be fighting in WvW, doing PVP, roleplaying with guildies, dungeon crawling for new skins, grinding mats for a legendary, doing some DEs, leveling an alt, taking part in the living story, trying out new builds ….. ect, and on and on.

For others endgame is: Racing to cap level as fast as possible, figuring out which dungeon is the easiest and repeating that dungeon a hundred times till you have enough gold to buy 10 legendries’, raiding high level dungeons for gear that has better stats than what the majority of the player base has, going to WvW with some friends to gank people 4 on 1, fighting lots of 1v1s and losing despite claims to being “pro” players, screaming on the forums for Anet to add even more stat based gear so that their stat advantage can become larger and larger to help mask their lack of skill. And last but not least, starting a dungeon run with 3 guildies and then kicking some poor slob that is not one their buddies from their 5 man group right before the reward chest – then laughing their 16 year old butts off about it.

So as you can see, End-game can differ quite a bit from person to person

Neither of those are end game, its just…game

Why was Crab Toss Removed? – http://tinyurl.com/kvbaakq

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Posted by: Xenon.4537

Xenon.4537

That’s why I always say that when someone says a game sucks, they’re really talking about an incompatibilty between what they want/expect from a game and what the game delivers.

QFT. They don’t realize that when we talk about a subject, we are discussing 3 different entities. There is the subject that exists in my mind, the subject that exists in your mind, and the subject that exists in reality. Since we aren’t omniscient, we can’t truly know the one that exists in reality. We are trapped by our own limited perceptions. Everyone has different perceptions, thus everyone has different opinions. No one thinks about this, though. Each individual just spews bullkittens and assumes their opinion is the right one.

The way I see it, people who dislike GW2 just see if from a bad angle, and the problem with those people is when they refuse to adjust their angle. So then it comes to either adjust your angle, or go find something that looks good from your angle. But don’t blame the scenery for your bad camerawork. And to push this analogy even further, I think some people just have broken/smudged lenses…

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Posted by: Fortuna.7259

Fortuna.7259

The way I see it, people who dislike GW2 just see if from a bad angle, and the problem with those people is when they refuse to adjust their angle. So then it comes to either adjust your angle, or go find something that looks good from your angle. But don’t blame the scenery for your bad camerawork. And to push this analogy even further, I think some people just have broken/smudged lenses…

Some people have a wide, roaming lenses. They can focus on the those things that display quality and integrity. Others have narrow lenses that cannot be moved. They have no choice but to watch what is in their field of view.

LF2M Max Ascended Only!

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Posted by: Xenon.4537

Xenon.4537

The way I see it, people who dislike GW2 just see if from a bad angle, and the problem with those people is when they refuse to adjust their angle. So then it comes to either adjust your angle, or go find something that looks good from your angle. But don’t blame the scenery for your bad camerawork. And to push this analogy even further, I think some people just have broken/smudged lenses…

Some people have a wide, roaming lenses. They can focus on the those things that display quality and integrity. Others have narrow lenses that cannot be moved. They have no choice but to watch what is in their field of view.

Furthermore, I think people have a hard time figuring out which lenses they have because they are like… Superglued to the face or something… They might think they have a million dollar IMAX camera, but what they really have is the cardboard tube from a roll of toilet paper… And the cardboard is soggy and misshapen.

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Posted by: Fortuna.7259

Fortuna.7259

Furthermore, I think people have a hard time figuring out which lenses they have because they are like… Superglued to the face or something… They might think they have a million dollar IMAX camera, but what they really have is the cardboard tube from a roll of toilet paper… And the cardboard is soggy and misshapen.

Of course some people are confused. They are stuck with tunnel vision. However, when you can see something and another says he can’t see it and only wants to talk about how what he does see is so worth seeing, then it is fairly obvious.

LF2M Max Ascended Only!

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Posted by: SalvinValkyries.4501

SalvinValkyries.4501

Grand hyperbole’s aside…

GW2 orbits around industry buzzwords, i.e, accessibility and/or lowering the threshold. In other words, content that is bite sized, easily consumed and can be just as easily monetized.

This doesn’t necessarily result in substantive content that pushes the genre and it’s target audience forward. The marketing, however, leads us to believe otherwise.

Little effort and big rewards versus big effort and big rewards. Seeing as the money is where the casuals are, it’s easy to see why the latter is becoming an endangered species.