Guild Wars 2

RoffleMyWaffles.1295:

all I can say is this game is INCREDIBLY, INCREDIBLY, INCREDIBLY, INCREDIBLY EASY and BORING!

You’re level 9, and the starter zones are baseline very easy and forgiving. Not to mention that most overworld enemies in general don’t have a lot of health, so you might be burning through this without that much effort just by that alone (especially if you’re spamming conditions). That said, it doesn’t get terribly much better. Dungeons, fractals and the Silverwastes are the effective “end-game” content for PvE, and the biggest challenge in those game modes is mostly just trying not to goof up your simple rotation through the boss’ unnecessarily high HP pool. PvE NPCs are poorly equipped to fight players (especially 5 or more of them at once), so most bosses end up either having obscene amounts of health and/or several invulnerability periods and gimmick stages which players have to address somehow on an encounter-by-encounter basis. It’s not an efficient design when every “end-game” encounter isn’t unique in its terrain, boss attack patterns or effective player skill set-ups, but rather in the questions of either “How do we make it stop being invulnerable for this one?” or “How long do we wait until we can hit it again?”

The only boss that really breaks this sort of mold is the Molten Duo (one of the fractal end bosses), but that’s only because that boss is technically two dangerous enemies at once. That sort of design lets the player focus one while still being under dangerous fire from another, but anet hasn’t yet learned that this is actually quite possibly the most effective strategy when it comes to making engaging end-game bosses in GW2. They would rather continue to have players press 1 on a single target for 5-10 minutes.

I think the starter areas are meant to accommodate people who may have never played an mmo before. Sometimes it’s easy to forget just how daunting walking into a game for the first time can be! (: I’ve had a couple of completely new inexperienced people start playing recently and they’ve had trouble keeping alive and learning to use more than 1-2 buttons. Don’t even get me started on dodging, haha! We all have to start somewhere and not everyone is a seasoned gamer! It’s a very new and overwhelming experience for them. (:

You could definitely try pvp or challenging yourself with higher level zones! Also different classes offer different play styles. Some involve more skill management than others. Engineers and elementalist tend to be more complicated than the other classes; where as warriors and rangers are a lot easier and simpler to play imo. So you could try one of the harder classes? Sadly, if doing those things still don’t fulfill the difficulty level you want, then maybe the truth is this might not be the game for you? Sometimes it’s just a realization we have to face. No game can perfectly cater to everyone and skill levels range. What is difficult for one person may be easy for somebody else! >3<

When i was lvl 15 in WoW, everything looks "INCREDIBLY, INCREDIBLY, INCREDIBLY, INCREDIBLY EASY and BORING! " /sarcasm (but this is a truth)
You play too little MMORPGs, most of mmos let lowbies melt everything with skill 1.

I ran my key runner through part of low level Queensdale. Stood and watched while a bunch of new people tried to get the chest in the middle of the dodge circle. They were hitting the spikes and getting knocked back over and over. Mostly the game is easy for those with a good connection, good reflexes and experience in playing mmos. Back when my connection was bad, it was a challenge just to harvest a node sometimes. ^^

There are a lot of people who don’t strafe, but stand in one spot. They use a longbow at melee range or stand there and use a guardian staff (hits 5 targets) on a single mob at melee range instead of switching weapons. I stood and watched a friend do that once, slowly wanding the mob to death instead of switching to something else. The game is set up to accommodate this level of skill at the start, but then never pushes people to do more. Many of my PvE skills are useless. For example, boon stripping skills in a PvE game with few or no mobs that have boons is an example of a missed opportunity to have more skillful combat. They put those skills in, but make them only useful in PvP.

Interesting read. With the NPE Anet did try to hold people because they noticed many did leave even before getting to 80, but in order to do that they made it even more easy. When you read this, the problem might have been that is was already too easy.

Personally I think a mix of traditional quest (with fun interesting rewards and a little lore around them you learn about in the quest) and events would also have been better instead of purely the events, and no PoI. Now leveling for a new player soon becomes running from PoI, to Waypoint, to hearth to hero thingy. If then the encounters that you have in-between are also easy and the rewards are functional but not very interesting then it’s not strange many people might get bored before getting to lvl 80.

I remember leveling my first character was a lot of fun with all the new players running around, but the alts weren’t that much fun so I do understand the problems he runs into. Let’s hope HoT will add the challenge many people are looking for.

@Devata
Part of the problem is that without adversary you cannot have rewarding gameplay moments. You need to have some – even if faked – sense of danger. GW2 frequently lacks this until lvl40+ or so when you start to run into some of the zones where you can actually die.

PopeUrban.2578:

It’s a kind of “choose your own adventure” difficulty scheme. Early on it’s very easy, but by the time you get to the end of the main line, do dungeons, fractals, etc. you’re going to see the challenge creep up.

Don’t try to think about it like WoW, where leveling is the core experience. Think of leveling as the tutorial that’s more about exploration than challenge, and the instances and level 80 areas, instances, world bosses, etc. as the challenge.

haha this is a funny perspective. GW2 was actually supposed to the endgame begins at level 1. Your basically saying leve 80 is when the fun starts.

Carighan.6758:

@Devata
Part of the problem is that without adversary you cannot have rewarding gameplay moments. You need to have some – even if faked – sense of danger. GW2 frequently lacks this until lvl40+ or so when you start to run into some of the zones where you can actually die.

Partly true, it depends on what type of rewards you like. I also hold more game-play value to an item that is rewarded for doing something challeging then for simple to get items.

However, some items can just be fun to have and a quest can add lore to an items.. ‘I helped that lady find the body of her son, and then she asked me to take care of his pet..’ That then adds value to the mini-pet or maybe ranger pet you got as reward for that quest. Even while finding the body was then many not very challeging.

Now it’s more like.. you run into an area where an hearth is or an event, you help and get some gold, maybe a green you use until you get a better one. I can understand how that is.. well more boring.

Devata.6589:

Interesting read. With the NPE Anet did try to hold people because they noticed many did leave even before getting to 80, but in order to do that they made it even more easy. When you read this, the problem might have been that is was already too easy.

Personally I think a mix of traditional quest (with fun interesting rewards and a little lore around them you learn about in the quest) and events would also have been better instead of purely the events, and no PoI. Now leveling for a new player soon becomes running from PoI, to Waypoint, to hearth to hero thingy. If then the encounters that you have in-between are also easy and the rewards are functional but not very interesting then it’s not strange many people might get bored before getting to lvl 80.

I remember leveling my first character was a lot of fun with all the new players running around, but the alts weren’t that much fun so I do understand the problems he runs into. Let’s hope HoT will add the challenge many people are looking for.

they kinda messed it up by putting the personal story in 10 level blocks, especially having the first story start at level 10. The personal story was kind of the thing that gives you a purpose and guides you through the game, (until you no longer care, at which point you know what you want to do in game and have your own goals)
They really dropped the ball on that in the NPE imo, it was one of the most detrimental changes.
They actually start the game with a straight up level grind, with no other obvious purpose. Who thought that was a good idea?

phys.7689:

they kinda messed it up by putting the personal story in 10 level blocks, especially having the first story start at level 10. The personal story was kind of the thing that gives you a purpose and guides you through the game, (until you no longer care, at which point you know what you want to do in game and have your own goals)
They really dropped the ball on that in the NPE imo, it was one of the most detrimental changes.
They actually start the game with a straight up level grind, with no other obvious purpose. Who thought that was a good idea?

/signed
That’s the reason I never got my dad to like GW2. He’s not a MMO player but upfront when it comes to good stories (which imo is the case with the personal story). Meaning he would have played the story and then left the game. He started it on my second account a while a go and said “Where is the purpose? What am I even doing here?” – I couldn’t motivate him to grind to lvl 10 only to see a glimpse of the story and grind 10 levels more after that. Not to mention that the PS was also my motivation when I leveled my first three characters.

I wonder if the OP would still be playing the game if he actually knew that there will start a story eventually…

ShelBlackblood.7826:

phys.7689:

they kinda messed it up by putting the personal story in 10 level blocks, especially having the first story start at level 10. The personal story was kind of the thing that gives you a purpose and guides you through the game, (until you no longer care, at which point you know what you want to do in game and have your own goals)
They really dropped the ball on that in the NPE imo, it was one of the most detrimental changes.
They actually start the game with a straight up level grind, with no other obvious purpose. Who thought that was a good idea?

/signed
That’s the reason I never got my dad to like GW2. He’s not a MMO player but upfront when it comes to good stories (which imo is the case with the personal story). Meaning he would have played the story and then left the game. He started it on my second account a while a go and said “Where is the purpose? What am I even doing here?” – I couldn’t motivate him to grind to lvl 10 only to see a glimpse of the story and grind 10 levels more after that. Not to mention that the PS was also my motivation when I leveled my first three characters.

I wonder if the OP would still be playing the game if he actually knew that there will start a story eventually…

Please don´t take this a rant against you or you people, folks. I also have people in the family I scratch my head over their abilities and inabilitie to grasp concepts like this.

But when someone can´t understand the concept of leveling, he or she has no reason and motivation to play a game like this. I am not talking about the purpose of leveling, that is indeed debatable. But someone who is not able to grasp the concept that he needs to crunch some numbers if he wants to reach the story aspect of the game, should not play this at all.
I think that your relatives are all intelligent people, therefore I can´t understand what is so hard to grasp about a sentence like:
“Look dad, see that number over there? Until that number is a 10 or more, you can´t look the story. It gets higher if you do any of X.”
If you were able to get a drivers licence for example with such easy commands like “If this light turns green, your car can go”, you can also grab the above concept.
You don´t need a Ph.D in mathematics to understand this.

So we´re not talking about inability to play, we are talking about ignorance and impatience.

I read this as ’I’ve played the game for 30 minutes and it’s too easy in the starter zone’.

Seriously, people these days…

Roll a pvp only character if you like pvp.

because it caters to casuals, to the bad player type of casual who views everyone who applies his mind to problem solving suspiciously. Pretty much the standard of the industry. From your self-description, I can tell you will not enjoy GW2, not ever. Don´t waste your time in this inclusion borefest.

@Torolan
Impatience is a huge factor here, but ignorance is kinda the wrong word, since we know the story starts at level 10 and not pretent to be dumb. Maybe – just maybe, there would be a little more motivation in leveling if the heart/quests were better written or you actually would still get the letters each “quest giver” was sending you after completing a quest. I’ve acutally read those in the beginning. And if player A (let’s make it general) is only interested in a good story, he/she might not want to go a very long path to see it, heck, there are more than enough RPGs out there. It is very different when you level + see story bits in turns. When you see the level number in the right corner that gives you a recommendation when to do the story mission and you are even able to finish the mission underleveled, this is where motivation and challenge met another pre NPE. It was fun and exciting to finish something way above your current level.

Torolan.5816:

ShelBlackblood.7826:

phys.7689:

they kinda messed it up by putting the personal story in 10 level blocks, especially having the first story start at level 10. The personal story was kind of the thing that gives you a purpose and guides you through the game, (until you no longer care, at which point you know what you want to do in game and have your own goals)
They really dropped the ball on that in the NPE imo, it was one of the most detrimental changes.
They actually start the game with a straight up level grind, with no other obvious purpose. Who thought that was a good idea?

/signed
That’s the reason I never got my dad to like GW2. He’s not a MMO player but upfront when it comes to good stories (which imo is the case with the personal story). Meaning he would have played the story and then left the game. He started it on my second account a while a go and said “Where is the purpose? What am I even doing here?” – I couldn’t motivate him to grind to lvl 10 only to see a glimpse of the story and grind 10 levels more after that. Not to mention that the PS was also my motivation when I leveled my first three characters.

I wonder if the OP would still be playing the game if he actually knew that there will start a story eventually…

Please don´t take this a rant against you or you people, folks. I also have people in the family I scratch my head over their abilities and inabilitie to grasp concepts like this.

But when someone can´t understand the concept of leveling, he or she has no reason and motivation to play a game like this. I am not talking about the purpose of leveling, that is indeed debatable. But someone who is not able to grasp the concept that he needs to crunch some numbers if he wants to reach the story aspect of the game, should not play this at all.
I think that your relatives are all intelligent people, therefore I can´t understand what is so hard to grasp about a sentence like:
“Look dad, see that number over there? Until that number is a 10 or more, you can´t look the story. It gets higher if you do any of X.”
If you were able to get a drivers licence for example with such easy commands like “If this light turns green, your car can go”, you can also grab the above concept.
You don´t need a Ph.D in mathematics to understand this.

So we´re not talking about inability to play, we are talking about ignorance and impatience.

your theory might make sense, if the game hadnt started with no leveling walls for personal story.
But beyond that, this is about pacing. The game totally was not meant to be grinded to level 10 before proceeding. They didnt design the level 1-10 content in a compelling fashion that urges you forward, it literally feels like doing random crap for no reason at all. Every other MMO has quests to handle that purpose, the personal story was designed for this very purpose, and they screwed it up.

You are just in the newbie area designed to get new players used to the mechanics. People say it’s easy, but I have no doubt you will start dying around lvl 25 and have to start thinking g about what you’re doing.

@Shel
Better written? I can agree with that if a heart quest would fit into the story instead of being like. And it is not Ignorance in the sense of too stupid it´s being ignorant in a sense that you know it and simply don´t want to do it to get X. I don´t know a better word for it and it may actually be a false friend translated from my language into english, but I hope you understand what i mean.
So instead of:
“Yeah, uhm, I am a bee farmer and have a spoon for you.”
It makes sense that a person like tihs lives in the starting map, but it could be like:
“Yeah, Player X, I knew your sister. She was a nice girl.”
to catch the players who want ot make the game for story reasons.

And as he started a while ago, why not give him tomes so that he could level by using tomes? We´re back at the equivalent of unwilling to do it now, or not?

@phys
It also made sense when this was not the case. But you are also right in a way, nobody could stop you when you wanted to make the story of lvl 30 with a lvl 8 char. But that would just have condemned you to a painful death or forced your relatives, friends etc to babysit you through it while you watch the cinematics. Because you neither have the euipment nor the skills to survive the story when you a) never leveled and b) never caught the basic mechanic even GW2 asks from the most rudimentary of casual gamers.

RoffleMyWaffles.1295:

while stomping everything like I was a lvl 40 in a level 1-10 zone.

Ok, I’m calling bunk on the OP’s entire story. First, he’s decided in just two hours from his first post that the games just not for him. He’s already complaining at lvl 9 which takes all of 30 minutes to get to. Then this quote, how would he even know what a lvl 40 would be like?

I call bunk, this is a mocked up story.

In regards to the storyline I agree that the block system is pretty bad in regards to hooking a player. I know anytime I level a alt I avoid the PS until around like 60-70 so I can do the whole thing in one go. But also I think the leveling system in Gw2 is meaningless anyways and is there simply to be a time gate.

Torolan.5816:

@Shel
Better written? I can agree with that if a heart quest would fit into the story instead of being like. And it is not Ignorance in the sense of too stupid it´s being ignorant in a sense that you know it and simply don´t want to do it to get X. I don´t know a better word for it and it may actually be a false friend translated from my language into english, but I hope you understand what i mean.
So instead of:
“Yeah, uhm, I am a bee farmer and have a spoon for you.”
It makes sense that a person like tihs lives in the starting map, but it could be like:
“Yeah, Player X, I knew your sister. She was a nice girl.”
to catch the players who want ot make the game for story reasons.

And as he started a while ago, why not give him tomes so that he could level by using tomes? We´re back at the equivalent of unwilling to do it now, or not?

@phys
It also made sense when this was not the case. But you are also right in a way, nobody could stop you when you wanted to make the story of lvl 30 with a lvl 8 char. But that would just have condemned you to a painful death or forced your relatives, friends etc to babysit you through it while you watch the cinematics. Because you neither have the euipment nor the skills to survive the story when you a) never leveled and b) never caught the basic mechanic even GW2 asks from the most rudimentary of casual gamers.

the story was designed to take you through areas that you would be leveling in, naturally running into events on the way, and hearts. Only if you go out of your way to ignore every thing, and know exactly where to go, could you get to level 30 personal story and only be level 8.
(actually its probabbly not possible due to exp gained from story)

regardless, its a really bad design to make people do something without giving them a compelling reason. Like i said, it might be different if the starter zone didnt come off as mostly random event filler.

all the people agreeing on how “easy” it is are moro…..mistaken. essentially you choose youre own difficulty in gw2.

you can easily adjust the difficulty by going into higher level maps and mobs you arent ready for quite yet

at level 9 and 10 you dont know enough about the game to make any substantial gripes about anything yet let alone the difficulty. take that level 9 to the next map and fight some level 15 mobs you’ll be button mashing and evading like crazy.

TheDemonEmperor.6825:

lol, u want hard. Try to get to ascalon dungeon atleast. You will feel helpless and weak. Also, lving in wow is the easiest thing there is, “do quests, get gear, do dungeon get carried”. I dont find it hard or challenging as u are making the comparision to gw2.

Story Mode! … at min level (I think it’s 35) and you’re not allowed any veteran friends, spoiler videos or yellow gear!

No.

/15char

and no its not bad design to create an open world without direction – its open world – its an mmorpg not a single person linear game. its a different mindset – its a different kind of game – it doesnt hold your hand and tell you where to go you have to make….dunh dunh dunnnnnh DECISIONS either you like open world or you dont. sounds like the majority of posters on this thread need to go back to their console single player games where content is set out in a tidy neat fashion for them to mindlessly consume untill they reach the end and become real winners.

in open world you have to provide a lot of you’re own entertainment and goals – not everyone likes that. then they come whine and complain on the forums – ignore the whiners and complainers gw2 is pretty cool if you can provide even a small amount of imagination. I know its hard for the kitten kitten mindset of the main stream to grasp that.

I was just throwing lvl 8 in for kitten and giggles. I don´t know how much of a level you would ninimally be with the avoidance of everything tactic.

Regarding the dad example, I had another thought:
If your dad is such a lover of stories, why did he not look in the stories of the human starter area?
Oh, centaurs attacked the castle and summoned the giant hand. Why did they do this? Hm, over there is a human outpost. Maybe there are some hints there? Centaurs attack the road, alarm!

I certainly won´t say that the story of vanilla maps of GW2 is a breathtakingly good work of pulitzer deserving art, but if you look hard enough, you find some gems in that too. Kessex Hills comes to mind actually, with the ls1 system of open world events still in effect, many casual players could spend days or even weeks there. They actually did when the tower stoood there.

@Torolan
Sadly, I don’t have free slots on my main account right now and the sec. account doesn’t have any scrolls (since I barely use it). Also new/f2p players who look for at least some kind of story know nothing about the 10 level wall and don’t have those scrolls. The OP got bored at lvl 9 – what if he did know this game has a story and/or just leveled one more time? Would he have created this thread or instead have seen the story as a motivation to go through “boring” content (not my opinion) that guides players more easily to lvl 80? As many have said, the modes which make fun later in the game must first be reachable, most begin only at lvl 80. Therefor a little motivation in form of a decent story might be a good buffer. Maybe he will read this and give the game another shot, this time with other expectations, we don’t know that.

Qazmodon.1823:

and no its not bad design to create an open world without direction – its open world – its an mmorpg not a single person linear game. its a different mindset – its a different kind of game – it doesnt hold your hand and tell you where to go you have to make….dunh dunh dunnnnnh DECISIONS either you like open world or you dont. sounds like the majority of posters on this thread need to go back to their console single player games where content is set out in a tidy neat fashion for them to mindlessly consume untill they reach the end and become real winners.

in open world you have to provide a lot of you’re own entertainment and goals – not everyone likes that. then they come whine and complain on the forums – ignore the whiners and complainers gw2 is pretty cool if you can provide even a small amount of imagination. I know its hard for the kitten kitten mindset of the main stream to grasp that.

Quest and rewards (hidden behind content) still don’t take your hand, you still have to accept the quest or set yourself to goal to go for some reward. But they are an incentive to explore, they give you idea’s and reasons to visit specific places, they give you story and a connection to the world.

In that way they are a type of guidance, but still very open. Not saying that isn’t available in GW2, but here it comes in the form of dots on your map what is not a very interesting way, maybe an NPC running to you asking for help (that is a good example of how GW2 solves it) however that does not happen all that much.

So maybe it’s even more incentive then guidance.

@Qazmodon
This sounds like all MMOs with acceptable quests are trash for you. So Skyrim is the superior offline RPG because it has an open world? Oh my, I didn’t know there were elitists when it comes to simply level a character.

I won’t try to claim GW2 is a difficult game for most of its content. But WoW? Difficult? Maybe like 5% of it, just like GW2.

Post like this are the exact reason why the NPE was in part horrible for the game.

In the beginning the game was far more enjoyable, and less press 1 profit. Apparently that was too hard for “new players” and some people had some metrics that said we had to make things so easy even a caveman could do it.

Algreg.3629:

because it caters to casuals, to the bad player type of casual who views everyone who applies his mind to problem solving suspiciously. Pretty much the standard of the industry. From your self-description, I can tell you will not enjoy GW2, not ever. Don´t waste your time in this inclusion borefest.

If you didn’t want an inclusive game, why did you buy and play it? It’s like being Vegan and going to McDonald’s to complain about the Big Mac you ordered because it has “meat” in it.

Elitists are more boring-and annoying-than this supposed GW2 “borefest.”

phys.7689:

PopeUrban.2578:

It’s a kind of “choose your own adventure” difficulty scheme. Early on it’s very easy, but by the time you get to the end of the main line, do dungeons, fractals, etc. you’re going to see the challenge creep up.

Don’t try to think about it like WoW, where leveling is the core experience. Think of leveling as the tutorial that’s more about exploration than challenge, and the instances and level 80 areas, instances, world bosses, etc. as the challenge.

haha this is a funny perspective. GW2 was actually supposed to the endgame begins at level 1. Your basically saying leve 80 is when the fun starts.

Not at all!

I had tons of fun exploring the world, getting in over my head with crap gear, and walking in to upleveled areas while leveling. I had just as much fun exploring the zones I didn’t level up in for world completion once I hit level 80.

The fun doesn’t start at 80, but a lot of the difficulty ramp absolutely does. I’d actually say the GW2 leveling experience was one of the most enjoyable ways to level I’ve encountered. Some people might prefer to be directed around the map in a straight line, but I really enjoyed the event and hearts way of doing it in stead, and commonly found myself get distracted by a neat event or heart on the way to a personal story step and let hours pass before I remembered that I originally set out to do a story instance.

That said there are absolutely challenging zones and content as you level, but I wouldn’t call it particularly brutal. There are a lot of rough events and areas, but there are just as many easy ways around them as well.

I think, really, that GW2’s leveling experience is a lot more about exploring and getting to know the world than it is conquering it. The voice work and events and stuff are designed to make it a more immersive than gamey experience that slowly moves toward mechanical complexity.

I think that’s a good thing, as the leveling content we have now is all the leveling content that’s ever going to exist, and that content does a pretty good job of introducing you to the basic mechanics and lore of the world while occasionally throwing bit of a curveball at you in the form of some group event or random champ or whatever that breaks you out of your comfort zone.

I gotta tell you, i felt exatcly the same, but kept going hoping it would get better in the endgame, guess what it doesnt, the big events are just 30+ ppl spamming auto attack, dungeons are all about stack and spam in the right spot. PvE in this game is just a gold farming tool so far, and the f2p broken the economy, so soon the farming will be not viable too. Maybe the expansion brings some challenging content, but now, most of it is auto attack spam. Jump into pvp and see if you like it, otherwise I dont think there’s much left for you in this game but prepare yourself for the expansion, and knowing Anet i say it may not be challenging as you want.

RoffleMyWaffles.1295:

Hey everyone. I’m a new player. Before I begin my rant, let me precede by telling you the kind of games I play frequently: DoTA2, Battlefield 3 & 4, Starcraft II, Dragon Age: Origins. For single player games I play on a harder difficulty because I like challenge, and as for the others, I play PvP because I like in-depth mechanics, strategy, and a good challenge.

On to GW2. I picked this game up because my friends raved about it, and after reading the stunning reviews, I went ahead and took the plunge and bought the game. I played World of Warcraft a long time ago and thought that was a decently challenging game. But right now I have a level 9 sylvari and all I can say is this game is INCREDIBLY, INCREDIBLY, INCREDIBLY, INCREDIBLY EASY and BORING!

I am “completely” floored by how easy it is to “kill stuff”. I don’t even need to use 2, 3, or 4, all I do is walk up to stuff (that is my level or higher) and kill in 6 or less hits with auto-attack. Am I missing something here? I haven’t bought anything from the stores. Does the game get harder as you go along? Does the PvE get any better than this? My experience feels way different than everyone else, and I’m wondering if I’m doing it wrong. What exactly makes this game so great to stand out amongst the other MMO’s on the market? Maybe it isn’t for me, but judging by the reviews there’s got to be some hidden substance.

Thanks for the help.

Game doesn’t get challenging with “end-game-content”. Simply autoattack with some weapon skills on CD is enough for everything. There’s no challenge, everything is easy, you don’t need to think at all. Fractals might become challenging when your teammembers use wrong gear and are very bad in general.

There is a player who kills one of the strongest bosses in game (if you kill him solo) with one finger and without any gear.

ShelBlackblood.7826:

if player A (let’s make it general) is only interested in a good story, he/she might not want to go a very long path to see it, heck, there are more than enough RPGs out there. It is very different when you level + see story bits in turns.

Who says there’s only one story in this game? There actually is a multitude, in each and every area. Hearts tell stories, events tell stories, npcs tell stories, it’s all there for those who care to look. It’s not a book though that gives you page after page, chapter after chapter, but instead a huge world that lets you set the pace, pursue the stories you are interested in, decide which direction to go next.

The personal story to me actually is more of a nuisance in a way, since it does urge me strongly to go someplace specific rather than explore whatever story bits and pieces have caught my attention just now. For example, my recently-turned-lvl-30 guardian was just in the middle of exploring the different Hylek tribes of central Metrica Province and I do find it intrusive that he’s suddenly called to icy Snowden Drifts on an outing with Rytlock (yes, he’s a Charr).

People who claim they’re playing this game for the story, then go on to say it forces them to mindlessly grind levels should try to open their eyes and ears, since they’re missing out on 98% of the story in this game.

phys.7689:

regardless, its a really bad design to make people do something without giving them a compelling reason. Like i said, it might be different if the starter zone didnt come off as mostly random event filler.

There are reasons to everything and anything you can do in this game, be it events, hearts, or just picking a direction to see what’s behind the next hill. What the game does not do though is thrust each reason into your face in a way you can’t ignore it (e.g. giving you a questgiver you have to interact with before you can even start doing an activity and/or hoping for a reward).

Personally, this is what I love about this game: It has a wealth of stories small and large, but I can explore or ignore each of them at my leisure. I’ve found many an interesting stories in other MMOs, e.g. LotRO or ESO, but those games always force me to pursue a quest line to get the whole story, and often rip it apart by spreading it across different quest hubs, where other quests of those hubs interrupt and muddle the flow of the story. In this game, I can choose myself which story to pursue at what time, without disrupting the flow of leveling or slowing me down significantly.

As such, I really enjoy the bundeling of the personal story, too, since it allows me to go through each story-arch pretty much on-level without disrupting the flow of the story by the need to do other stuff inbetween to stay in a relevant level range. Before, I could only do that by waiting out to close to max-level of each arch, often making the early stories quite boring (and their rewards useless) in return. Since those arcs are closed stories in themselves and leave me time inbetween to pursue other storylines and explore other areas I appreciate the rework very much.

Qazmodon.1823:

all the people agreeing on how “easy” it is are moro…..mistaken. essentially you choose youre own difficulty in gw2.

you can easily adjust the difficulty by going into higher level maps and mobs you arent ready for quite yet

at level 9 and 10 you dont know enough about the game to make any substantial gripes about anything yet let alone the difficulty. take that level 9 to the next map and fight some level 15 mobs you’ll be button mashing and evading like crazy.

the game actually doesnt let you do this. It has level correction where enemies will agro you from farther away, hit for insnane HP, and most of your attacks miss with glancing blows. Its possible to beat stuff probably up to 10 levels, but it involves a lot of cheesy tactics, and degenerative gameplay.

I think it’s sad that patience seems to be a lost virtue these days.

Endless Soul.5178:

I think it’s sad that patience seems to be a lost virtue these days.

if something doesnt make people more interested in the first few hours, thats basically a pretty big fail. Patience is for tasks, not entertainment.

PopeUrban.2578:

I think, really, that GW2’s leveling experience is a lot more about exploring and getting to know the world than it is conquering it.

The Pope’s right here boys.

Explore, discover, enjoy all the activities that contribute to leveling (crafting, jumping puzzle, activities, events, collections…).

Don’t go into a MMO PVE open world expecting to find a dark soul or a dragon age origins type of challenge (I mean come on, MMO PVE open world!)

And if combat is your thing, I suggest to find a class whose mechanics and fighting style you enjoy, get your teeth in the game, then go wear your E-thug hood in PvP or WvW. You’ll find plenty of hard content over there:p

Now. One thing though.

Despite all its qualities, gw2 may lack a sort of “wow, I’m hooked, can’t take my eyes off you factor”. But there is not much we can do to help you here. It’s all about tastes and the designers doing a good job:p

Try exploring, a big strength of this game is the environment. The combat is fluid and well designed but I agree mobs you’ll find in most places of the game will be very weak – this is thankfully going to change with HoT (assuming they aren’t nerfing things due to QQ).

Khalisto.5780:

I gotta tell you, i felt exatcly the same, but kept going hoping it would get better in the endgame, guess what it doesnt, the big events are just 30+ ppl spamming auto attack, dungeons are all about stack and spam in the right spot.

Well there’s more to the open world PvE than world bosses and such. If you actually explore around, soloing champs and various other content and events are far from the standard PvE world bosses and Silver Wastes will leave you eating dirt if you think you can tackle it like you do the Thaumanova Elemental not to mention there is more things you can tackle alone in Silver Waste.

The thing is, if you want your PvE to be easier, run it with 5+ players around and if you want it more challenging, run it with less. Go try and solo some of the events in Orr compared to running them with a group and you’ll notice a difference (although there are some events that are exceedingly more tougher to do with few players than others).

The rest you speak of, not even going to bother commenting…

phys.7689:

Endless Soul.5178:

I think it’s sad that patience seems to be a lost virtue these days.

if something doesnt make people more interested in the first few hours, thats basically a pretty big fail. Patience is for tasks, not entertainment.

I get it. I don’t play PvP in this game as I prefer a higher stakes style of PvP and find the sPvP arena style boring, and WvW fighting over things I have no investment or ownership in tedious. I prefer more old school UO or EVE style PvP, basically, I like knowing pvp means risking losing stuff. I’ll probably never really enjoy GW2’s PvP

Most of those games also have PvE that’s not particularly immersive or challenging, so I look elsewhere for my PvE.

GW2 PvE is highly story/lore centric. If its particular brand of charm doesn’t quite grab you in the first few hours, it’s pretty unlikely that it’ll hold your attention no matter how challenging future content is. Personally I’m happy they’re adding more challenging content while trying to keep the things I like about GW2 PvE (The exploration and ongoing story) but if you’re looking more for a sort of less twitchy and more tactical thing I doubt it’ll have staying power for you.

Different strokes for different folks is all. Nothin’ wrong with that.

Qazmodon.1823:

and no its not bad design to create an open world without direction – its open world – its an mmorpg not a single person linear game. its a different mindset – its a different kind of game – it doesnt hold your hand and tell you where to go you have to make….dunh dunh dunnnnnh DECISIONS either you like open world or you dont. sounds like the majority of posters on this thread need to go back to their console single player games where content is set out in a tidy neat fashion for them to mindlessly consume untill they reach the end and become real winners.

in open world you have to provide a lot of you’re own entertainment and goals – not everyone likes that. then they come whine and complain on the forums – ignore the whiners and complainers gw2 is pretty cool if you can provide even a small amount of imagination. I know its hard for the kitten kitten mindset of the main stream to grasp that.

a well designed open world game generally starts with a compelling narrative then sends you out into the open word with a general purpose and reasoning. They also generally have a main plotline to pursue at your leisure
Skyrim is a perfect example.

you start out with a compelling high drama story, then they tell you to go talk to this guy. You can go off and explore OR YOU CAN GO TALK TO THAT GUY.

open world doesnt mean your required to do everything in the map to progress, it means you can choose what to do, and when to do it. And it doesnt mean there is no guiding plotlines/quests.

what you are talking about is a bad execution of an open world game.

RoffleMyWaffles.1295:

Hey everyone. I’m a new player. Before I begin my rant, let me precede by telling you the kind of games I play frequently: DoTA2, Battlefield 3 & 4, Starcraft II, Dragon Age: Origins. For single player games I play on a harder difficulty because I like challenge, and as for the others, I play PvP because I like in-depth mechanics, strategy, and a good challenge.

On to GW2. I picked this game up because my friends raved about it, and after reading the stunning reviews, I went ahead and took the plunge and bought the game. I played World of Warcraft a long time ago and thought that was a decently challenging game. But right now I have a level 9 sylvari and all I can say is this game is INCREDIBLY, INCREDIBLY, INCREDIBLY, INCREDIBLY EASY and BORING!

I am “completely” floored by how easy it is to “kill stuff”. I don’t even need to use 2, 3, or 4, all I do is walk up to stuff (that is my level or higher) and kill in 6 or less hits with auto-attack. Am I missing something here? I haven’t bought anything from the stores. Does the game get harder as you go along? Does the PvE get any better than this? My experience feels way different than everyone else, and I’m wondering if I’m doing it wrong. What exactly makes this game so great to stand out amongst the other MMO’s on the market? Maybe it isn’t for me, but judging by the reviews there’s got to be some hidden substance.

Thanks for the help.

Well for starters… you’re level 9 in a starter map. Trying to do that in say a Fractal at level 80 will end up with your face buried in the dirt. That being said, it is the beginning and GW2 is quite a bit more casual than other MMO’s like WoW. The expansion is bringing some pretty good content with Raids and mobs that require quite a bit of awareness and effort to fight as they have tough hides that make fighting them head on much more challenging. I would advise looking at some end game content to see if it’s your style. And also e sure to check out the Heart of Thorns expansion because the new content could also be what you’re looking for.

PopeUrban.2578:

phys.7689:

Endless Soul.5178:

I think it’s sad that patience seems to be a lost virtue these days.

if something doesnt make people more interested in the first few hours, thats basically a pretty big fail. Patience is for tasks, not entertainment.

I get it. I don’t play PvP in this game as I prefer a higher stakes style of PvP and find the sPvP arena style boring, and WvW fighting over things I have no investment or ownership in tedious. I prefer more old school UO or EVE style PvP, basically, I like knowing pvp means risking losing stuff. I’ll probably never really enjoy GW2’s PvP

Most of those games also have PvE that’s not particularly immersive or challenging, so I look elsewhere for my PvE.

GW2 PvE is highly story/lore centric. If its particular brand of charm doesn’t quite grab you in the first few hours, it’s pretty unlikely that it’ll hold your attention no matter how challenging future content is. Personally I’m happy they’re adding more challenging content while trying to keep the things I like about GW2 PvE (The exploration and ongoing story) but if you’re looking more for a sort of less twitchy and more tactical thing I doubt it’ll have staying power for you.

Different strokes for different folks is all. Nothin’ wrong with that.

you do realize you can no longer actually do the story line till around level 10, and the content designed for the first 10 levels is generally some of the least engaging content lore wise? It was designed as being side things to accompany the personal story which starts out being the main narrative, while the initial hearts/events are fluff. Later on you get more involved lore chain events and the story is more spaced out, but starter zones is like kill some wasps, water some cows kill random bandits.

it used to be, by the time you were level 9, you had basically done the whole first story arc. Now, all you ve done at level 9 is water cows, kill random bandits, help plug some walls etc.

ShelBlackblood.7826:

@Qazmodon
This sounds like all MMOs with acceptable quests are trash for you. So Skyrim is the superior offline RPG because it has an open world? Oh my, I didn’t know there were elitists when it comes to simply level a character.

no no totally the wrong take on what im trying to say.
in the linear quest single player games you go from point A to point B to point C etc. you dont have to find your own way. to me that is an extremly boring stupid game but somehow people shell out the bucks for those games over and over. it may be elitest but yeah i question the intelligence / creativity / imagination level of those types of consumers. to be blunt they’re too limited to even understand the concept of what gw2 or for that matter all mmorpgs is all about.

I love the quest systems in most mmorpgs because they add to the world. they help define the locations. they help add to your own personal story. however to complain about the difficulty makes no sense to me since you can just challenge yourself by going past to a more difficult area or byy “nerfing” yourself by replacing gear and skills. if you aren’t being challenged in gw2 its because you aren’t even trying to seek it out. its not hard to find a challenge at all.

for example defending the watersupply in queensdale is a neat little open world quest. the bandits come to poisen the water and you defend it it – or fail – regardless of outcome what happens affects the town below. sorry thats just neat. what happens also affects the next little open world event. as far as difficulty. yes on my main it would be stupidly easy. doing it on a brand new toon with crap gear would be a way I could make it a challenge if i wanted to.

this is a microcosm of the entire game. it takes some imagination on the players part to enjoy the scenario. it takes a little spark to imagine yourself as a noble defender of the village. there’s two ways to engage in this event you can mindlessly press buttons and hurry on to the next event – ie mainstream – or you can appreciate the detail in the art work-detail in the story. you can wonder what the bandit was going to say when she’s dying and says " if i only….gasp" what ?? finish bandit college – took the job in shiverpeaks? finished cleric school? married jo bob hanson like her heart told her to? what life event did that poor girl regret? what set her down this road? what filled her with so much callousness that she could poison an entire village? there are kids in that village!! was it greed ? was it righteous fury at queen jenna? did a royal guard do something naughty to her mom ?

that’s just one small part of a huge masterfully worked world.

coming here to complain about how “easy” it is is tantamount to bragging about how awesome you are and how this game and all who play it is beneath you. I have to wave the bs banner on that. if you just don’t get it its a failure on your part not the game.

phys.7689:

Qazmodon.1823:

and no its not bad design to create an open world without direction – its open world – its an mmorpg not a single person linear game. its a different mindset – its a different kind of game – it doesnt hold your hand and tell you where to go you have to make….dunh dunh dunnnnnh DECISIONS either you like open world or you dont. sounds like the majority of posters on this thread need to go back to their console single player games where content is set out in a tidy neat fashion for them to mindlessly consume untill they reach the end and become real winners.

in open world you have to provide a lot of you’re own entertainment and goals – not everyone likes that. then they come whine and complain on the forums – ignore the whiners and complainers gw2 is pretty cool if you can provide even a small amount of imagination. I know its hard for the kitten kitten mindset of the main stream to grasp that.

a well designed open world game generally starts with a compelling narrative then sends you out into the open word with a general purpose and reasoning. They also generally have a main plotline to pursue at your leisure
Skyrim is a perfect example.

you start out with a compelling high drama story, then they tell you to go talk to this guy. You can go off and explore OR YOU CAN GO TALK TO THAT GUY.

open world doesnt mean your required to do everything in the map to progress, it means you can choose what to do, and when to do it. And it doesnt mean there is no guiding plotlines/quests.

what you are talking about is a bad execution of an open world game.

well after you finish the first story line thing you can DO THAT HEART QUEST AND TALK TO THAT GUY or you can go explore maybe TALK TO THAT HEART QUEST GUY or go explore then when you get to level 10 you get a mail and YOU CAN GO TALK TO THAT GUY there is plenty of guidance in the starting levels you sound like you’re complaining for the sake of complaining. picking the pepper out of fly dung

The game is easy. But there are ways that I can challenge myself; for example… playing a level 50 frac with casual players. I find that I have to adapt to their play style and that is challenging and fun for me (this is why I hate ads that scream for meta/exp, it’s boring when I don’t have to do much). I like resurrecting others, I feel satisfaction when I’m able to help others.

Meleeing in frac 50. Don’t use range at all.

There are tons of ways to challenge yourself, but yeah… I agree that it does get repetitive and predictable.

But when a boss is hard, people don’t want to do it. I don’t know how many people wish for “No mai trin please”. That is like my favourite boss to fight; she’s at least semi-unpredictable and semi-smart (avoiding the lightning aoe rofl, though i’m pretty sure that’s a bug).

phys.7689:

PopeUrban.2578:

phys.7689:

Endless Soul.5178:

I think it’s sad that patience seems to be a lost virtue these days.

if something doesnt make people more interested in the first few hours, thats basically a pretty big fail. Patience is for tasks, not entertainment.

I get it. I don’t play PvP in this game as I prefer a higher stakes style of PvP and find the sPvP arena style boring, and WvW fighting over things I have no investment or ownership in tedious. I prefer more old school UO or EVE style PvP, basically, I like knowing pvp means risking losing stuff. I’ll probably never really enjoy GW2’s PvP

Most of those games also have PvE that’s not particularly immersive or challenging, so I look elsewhere for my PvE.

GW2 PvE is highly story/lore centric. If its particular brand of charm doesn’t quite grab you in the first few hours, it’s pretty unlikely that it’ll hold your attention no matter how challenging future content is. Personally I’m happy they’re adding more challenging content while trying to keep the things I like about GW2 PvE (The exploration and ongoing story) but if you’re looking more for a sort of less twitchy and more tactical thing I doubt it’ll have staying power for you.

Different strokes for different folks is all. Nothin’ wrong with that.

you do realize you can no longer actually do the story line till around level 10, and the content designed for the first 10 levels is generally some of the least engaging content lore wise? It was designed as being side things to accompany the personal story which starts out being the main narrative, while the initial hearts/events are fluff. Later on you get more involved lore chain events and the story is more spaced out, but starter zones is like kill some wasps, water some cows kill random bandits.

it used to be, by the time you were level 9, you had basically done the whole first story arc. Now, all you ve done at level 9 is water cows, kill random bandits, help plug some walls etc.

My first (and still main) character was a human in queensdale and I found a lot of story right there. I got to know about the war between the humans and centaurs, some funny stuff about skritt, a little mini-dungeon.

Just because it’s not a railroad doesn’t mean the story isn’t there. Queensdale might be a zone that seems boring now, but as an introduction to the world it was pretty effective. People had problems and I helped them, I learned that bandits and centaurs are a big problem there, met some interesting people, etc.

It felt like a place, basically, and because it felt like a place I wanted to explore it and see what was going on in that place. Event chains get boring after a while, but when you’re dropped off in a fresh zone knowing nothing, that idea that things can just happen in unexpected ways or places was something at leat I found to be lots of fun.

I couldn’t for the life of me tell you what was going on in pretty much any zone of WoW, or everquest, what those places were about, what the people in them cared about, or what their roles in the world was. I can do that in just about every zone in GW2 there, and usually with several anecdotes about “oh yeah, that’s the guy that’s always trying to research the tombs” or “that’s the lady that owns the orchard” or “centaurs like to raid this place for beer”

Sure, maybe it’s not what does it for everyone, but I found it pretty immersive and effective as a storytelling mechanism to get me to see the world in a similar way to how my character might see it if he were a real person exploring there.

A lot of people say “you should at least play until lvl xx” but that’s not fun, it’s stockholm syndrome.
I agree that GW2 isn’t boring, and the truth is that game is a lot more fun at endgame. The thing is, for new players, it should be better to focus on enjoying the world, explore, rather than having to level up to 80 as your goal. I mean, you level up pretty much for anything you do in the game, so what’s the point of rushing if you are missing the whole point of the game which is having fun?
I guess the biggest issue in every game being boring or fun is always the same, about people trying to get to the endgame content without enjoying the game itself.