Guild Wars 2

CalamityO.2890:

Lambent.6375:

I would never expect for someone who has only played an mmo for at max an hour, to have such a vocal opinion already. They are even questioning reviews, despite the fact that they haven’t played the game much themselves.

It’s called having a first impression.

I thought GW2 had a great first impression. The story is pretty horrible and it’s presentation is bad, but the world itself was awesome to explore and felt very much alive.

Final Fantasy 14: Reborn is so boring it made me want to register on their forums and rant at them. I didn’t though

Since I never paid money for it, no point.

Azumi.9572:

WvW is probably the single most boring thing I have ever done in my life. You know what an average WvW playtime consists of? Following a bunch of other people in a big zerg for about 20 minutes, run into en equally large zerg and then just spam buttons. No skill required – there is far too many people around for skill to mean anything. And the action is over and done with so quickly you’re back to running around maps looking for something to do. Boring.

LOL

Someone got wiped his first time in WvW and thought “this game mode too hard for me” so decided to say its boring instead..

briggah.7910:

Expected that kind of reply. Everyone knows what kinda players hang around in WvW.

But no. It’s just boring.

Attack me all you want, doesn’t change the face of the argument:

WvW is a dull and boring experience.

Azumi.9572:

briggah.7910:

Expected that kind of reply. Everyone knows what kinda players hang around in WvW.

But no. It’s just boring.

Attack me all you want, doesn’t change the face of the argument:

WvW is a dull and boring experience.

That is your opinion and that is fine. IMO it is the best game mode this game has to offer.. You never know what to expect. You never know how many enemies are on the map (unless you get outnumbered buff) You never know when your keep is going to be attacked and by what or how many.

Some nights I can barely move off our side of the map since the other 2 servers are all over it yet other nights we are the ones all over the other 2 servers maps. You can solo roam if you want. You don’t have to run with a group. WvW is full of all sorts of players that all like to play different ways.

Azumi.9572:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

WvW is probably the single most boring thing I have ever done in my life. You know what an average WvW playtime consists of? Following a bunch of other people in a big zerg for about 20 minutes, run into en equally large zerg and then just spam buttons. No skill required – there is far too many people around for skill to mean anything. And the action is over and done with so quickly you’re back to running around maps looking for something to do. Boring.

sPvP? Meh. It’s alright. Same maps over and over again though makes it stale. Everyone uses the exact same builds now. You played 1 match you’ve played them all.

Be honest. Game is boring. I don’t want it to be – I just bought HoT after all and I’m still around. But it’s the truth.

Perhaps you’d be interested in this; Anti-zerging:

Personally, I’ve had the game since near laucnh, and while I’ve only played it on-and-off to purge the itch for a sub-fee MMO, I wouldn’t say I’ve ever gotten bored of it. Just other shiny games to play. The last couple of months have I’ve been hooked though.

So I really don’t agree that it’s boring, but I have come to realize its basically impossible for devs to be able to keep pace with the level of content consumption of gamers.

@ RoffleMyWaffles.1295

In short, the majority of the game, especially the open world PvE part, is very easy in this game. And if this is not to your liking then I would recommend to either find another mode or play another game. If you want challenges then focus on either PvP or WvW. Enemy players is the greatest challenge you will find in any game.

If the lack of challenge in PvE is such a problem that you can’t enjoy it, then don’t play it, either try another mode or play another game.

I would however recommend hitting level 15 first, and go to the NEXT area. The starter zones (1-15) is crazy simple, even by this games standards. Go to one of the next ones (15-25) and for an opinion there (I’d recommend Kessex Hills, in the human lands). If you still don’t enjoy it at this stage, you’ll hate it all the way to 80 anyways and would be better of doing something else.

Myself, I’m bored to tears with most of the PVE content, and has played mostly WvW the last 1.5 years now. Keep telling myself I should get started on PvP as well, but the guild tend to nag on me joining in WvW instead. I enjoyed the open world exploration when I started playing, because I’ve always enjoyed exploring in games. But once I had explored everything the open world lost its charm for me. Started trying to solo champions for challenge, and grew bored of that as well. Still enjoy the toxic events in Kessex.

Ticky.5831:

Azumi.9572:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

WvW is probably the single most boring thing I have ever done in my life. You know what an average WvW playtime consists of? Following a bunch of other people in a big zerg for about 20 minutes, run into en equally large zerg and then just spam buttons. No skill required – there is far too many people around for skill to mean anything. And the action is over and done with so quickly you’re back to running around maps looking for something to do. Boring.

sPvP? Meh. It’s alright. Same maps over and over again though makes it stale. Everyone uses the exact same builds now. You played 1 match you’ve played them all.

Be honest. Game is boring. I don’t want it to be – I just bought HoT after all and I’m still around. But it’s the truth.

Perhaps you’d be interested in this; Anti-zerging:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH0d-ofqbfs

Personally, I’ve had the game since near laucnh, and while I’ve only played it on-and-off to purge the itch for a sub-fee MMO, I wouldn’t say I’ve ever gotten bored of it. Just other shiny games to play. The last couple of months have I’ve been hooked though.

So I really don’t agree that it’s boring, but I have come to realize its basically impossible for devs to be able to keep pace with the level of content consumption of gamers.

Oh I agree re: the content thing. MMORPG are at some point going to hit that ‘wall’ with players. GW2 satisfied my urges for a good while. Though I do find I miss having that gear progression or something similar to it. Never thought I’d say it, but in GW2 every seems… pointless? I guess. Others love that ‘not chasing the carrot’ thing. I thought I would but I’ve found myself to be in the other column. Chasing the carrot isn’t so bad to me now that I’ve seen the other side.

Regarding the video – that’s EOTM. Most of the players are uplevel alt’s. There is far, far more action in EOTM than in WvW, and from a rewards stand point, it beats WvW by a large margin.

The problem is that EOTM is largely PvE with PvPZerg fights mixed in. WvW is PvPZerg fights mixed in and it’s boring as kitten because if you’re fighting in WvW, you’re probably Zerging.

I made a roaming Thief build with the stated gameplan of playing WvW as if it was open PvP in any other game. I barely saw anyone not in a large group. It’s geared toward zerging.

The overworld is very easy in general, especially the starter zones which were “revamped” for a better “new player experience”. There are challenges to be found however. Earlier today I got wrecked by a champion krait witch in timberline falls. I was my warrior with full ascended gear.

If starter zones are too easy for you why not venture out to other zones and try to find something more challenging. Try to get to Orr with your level 9.

The difficulty of the game is going to vary greatly depending on how you play it. If you choose to play a full defensive build for example, nothing is really going to be threat and you’ll complain that everything is tedious and takes too long to kill. Similarly, if you play a ranger, the pet will tank your battles for you. For the full combat experience, you really need to play a low defense profession in melee, though in some cases, you’ll simply kill your target before it’s actually threatening.

If you want to be good at the game, nerf yourself to prevent yourself from killing your target too quickly. People like to burn down bosses in dungeons for example, but if you force them to play normally, you find out they can’t. Properly learn to avoid your target’s attacks. This is an action game, so sometimes simply stepping to the side is all you need to do to avoid a swing. Don’t just rely on blinds/blocks/dodges/etc, like a x/pistol thief only auto attacking in an AoE blind.

The level of the enemies you face is very important. The difference in your target’s level to your own acts like a damage modifier. -1 and below is casual. +1 is normal. At lower levels (below ~20) +3 to 5 is normal. Also, simply being downscaled by itself reduces the difficulty since it’s not exactly accurate.

While leveling, the first real threat you’ll encounter is around Kessex Hills when you meet the Toxic Alliance. Toxic Krait can be very damaging. After that, you likely won’t see a challenge until around 30-50 when you encounter pirates, some of which also are very damaging. Remember to pull groups rather than casually 1vs1ing.

If you min/max while leveling, the entire game will likely be fairly easy. You’re choosing to play the game on easy mode however. Personally, I’m biased as I’ve only ever equipped what I’ve gotten through the leveling/personal story rewards and to me, consumables are a crutch used by bad players. I basically end up with gear 20-40 levels below me, which is like taking double the damage and dealing 1/5th the damage.

If you choose to play solo or with others is going to make a huge difference. Some people simply can’t handle the difficulty of the game, so they see the content as being intended for larger groups. In truth however, it’s not. Most group events are scaled for 3 people. The more people you bring, the easier it gets and the less effort each individual has to put in. The Silverwastes is the most recent example. 2 people per fort, then 3 per lane is all you really need, but people expect 10+ per lane.

Although GW2 is fairly casual, the difficulty of its open world content really isn’t. Most MMOs I’ve played have treated solo players as the worst players – cater to the lowest denominator. You can faceroll your way through the entirety of WoW’s leveling experience for example. The big difference however is that you don’t quickly recover automatically, so the threat is created by continuing with low resources. In more recent content in GW2, you can easily get killed in regular non-group content within a few seconds if you play poorly. That’s not casual and I don’t recall ever seeing that in past MMOs outside of soloing group content. Even WildStar, an MMO that spammed hardcore, only offered casual solo content. (I’m personally looking for a Dark Souls-like solo-focused MMO – why not a single player game? – only MMOs offer “living” worlds).

Azumi.9572:

Don’t really want to get into an argument with a fanboy but meh.

I don’t want to argue either but you’re still being subjective. Not because it’s GW2, but because people literally have different tastes. To yours, this is boring. To me, it isn’t. You’re voicing an opinion. I’m voicing an opinion. That’s all it is.

It is so tempting to reply to your arguments point by point, but like you said, convo over. So I’ll just give you my thoughts on one that struck me above all others:

Azumi.9572:

WvW is probably the single most boring thing I have ever done in my life. You know what an average WvW playtime consists of? Following a bunch of other people in a big zerg for about 20 minutes, run into en equally large zerg and then just spam buttons.

You know what I did today? Went into WvW alone. Snuck about, avoiding enemy zergs, capturing land, capturing camps. It felt dangerous, exciting. I’m still new to this and will likely loose even a 1 on 1 fight. But capturing those camps by myself is thrilling. Hiding behind a rock as a large enemy force moves past only metres away is thrilling. Sometimes I join zergs, sometimes I travel alone. Maybe your boredom comes from taking the ‘average’ experience, rather than choosing your own path?

Azumi.9572:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Don’t really want to get into an argument with a fanboy but meh.

There isn’t anything subjective about it. GW2 is boring. The best part of the game ends when you are finished the story and exploring the maps (This includes Jumping Puzzles).

After that, or rather at ‘end game’ there isn’t anything to do.

You can only do the same exact world bosses over and over so many times before you’re bored to tears. I reached that point a year ago with them.

You can only do the same exact dungeons over and over so many times before you’re bored to tears. The dungeons themselves are boring as hell, too. Stack in corner, kill boss. Run past trash mobs. Stack in corner kill boss. Wake me up. Please.

WvW is probably the single most boring thing I have ever done in my life. You know what an average WvW playtime consists of? Following a bunch of other people in a big zerg for about 20 minutes, run into en equally large zerg and then just spam buttons. No skill required – there is far too many people around for skill to mean anything. And the action is over and done with so quickly you’re back to running around maps looking for something to do. Boring.

sPvP? Meh. It’s alright. Same maps over and over again though makes it stale. Everyone uses the exact same builds now. You played 1 match you’ve played them all.

Be honest. Game is boring. I don’t want it to be – I just bought HoT after all and I’m still around. But it’s the truth.

I’ve played since launch. I took a break 8 months ago. I just came back around a week ago. I’m doing the EXACT same things now as I was then (Silverwastes, sPvP, Dungeons). Nothing has changed.

So now I’m trying to collect dyes. How joyful.

Oh and Fractals? Basically Dungeons, just takes longer.

“If it’s that boring, why do you still play?”

No idea. I don’t log in much anymore as it is.

Anyway. Convo over.

Pretty arrogant for you to presume to talk for everybody. And yes, it is very subjective. You mention that the game is boring, but only after you also mentioned you basically done everything you can in the game. A lot of people haven’t done that yet.

For example, the game has gotten boring for me, but only after I’m done everything over and over, just like you. Until that point I really love the game. Which is why I am excited about the new expansion, I expect it will revitalize my interest. Don’t go around saying the game is boring and it’s not subjective because you’re not taking into account all the people who haven’t played everything yet.

I want to share this beautiful essay with the community which answer the OP question and ’addresses our concerns. Enjoy

(The essay is too long, so i will quote first couple paragraphs)

" Winning isn’t everything "

“It is quite simple: When you play a game, you want to win. Winning makes you happy, losing makes you unhappy. If this seems self-evident, there is nonetheless a contradictory viewpoint, according to which games should be “neither too easy nor too hard”, implying that players also want not to win, at least part of the time. This is a contradiction I will try resolve in what follows”.

The question is:

Question 1: “What is the role of failure in video games?”

“The simplest theory of failure states that failing serves as a contrast to winning, that failure thereby makes winning all the more enjoyable. There is, however, much more to failure. The study of players discussed in this essay indicates that failure serves the deeper function of making players readjust their perception of a game. In effect, failure adds content by making the player see new nuances in a game. The study shows that players have quite elaborate theories of failure as a source of enjoyment in games”.

“Even so, given the negative connotations of failing, would a game be better received if players did not feel responsible for failing, but rather blamed failures on the game or on bad luck?”

“This is the second question”:

Question 2: “Do players prefer games where they do not feel responsible for failing?”

“This study strongly indicates that this is not the case. Players clearly prefer feeling responsible for failing in a game; not feeling responsible is tied to a negative perception of a game”

“In effect, this sharpens the contradiction between players as wanting to win and players wanting games to be challenging: failing, and feeling responsible for failing, makes players enjoy a game more, not less. Closer examination reveals that the apparent contradiction originates from two separate perspectives on games: a goal-oriented perspective wherein players want to win, and an aesthetic perspective wherein players prefer games with the right amount of challenge and variation”.

“Nevertheless, these two perspectives still present opposing considerations – the goal-oriented perspective suggests that games should be as easy as possible; the aesthetic perspective suggests that games should not be too easy”.

“To examine this, I will look take a closer look at the role of failure and punishment. I am writing here about single-player games.”

-Quotes before last few paragraphs-

" Conclusions: The Contradictory Desires of Players "

" initially discussed a contradiction between the observation that players want to win and the observation that players prefer games where they lose some, then win some. This leaves us with several opposing considerations indicating that games should be both easier and harder than they are":

1-The player does not want to fail (makes player sad, feels inadequate).
2-Failing makes the player reconsider his/her strategy (which makes the game more interesting).
3-Winning provides gratification.
4-Winning without failing leads to dissatisfaction.

“Points 1 and 3 suggest that games should be very easy, whereas points 2 and 4 suggest that games should not be too easy. The actual relationship of game design and game playing is probably not as antagonistic as this seems. A more productive view is that games derive their interest from the interaction between these different considerations, and that the apparent contradiction comes from the fact that games can be viewed from two distinct frames of reference (see Figure 10)”.

“Playing a game entails (1) a goal-orientation as part of the activity, but a player also has (2) an outside view of the game that entails an aesthetic evaluation of game challenge. This is the source of the contradiction discussed in the introduction, between players wanting to win, and players wanting not just to win”.

http://www.jesperjuul.net/text/fearoffailing/

Azumi.9572:

There isn’t anything subjective about it. GW2 is boring.

There’s everything subjective about it. Boredom is entirely subjective. There are people who find mold fascinating. Other people think following a sports team is the most engaging thing in the world. Still others really love Mortal Combat-type fighting games. I don’t care for any of that but that doesn’t mean those people are bored.

If someone finds GW2 boring, that’s totally fine. I have no objection to that, nor do I have anything to say except possibly to ask what kind of games they do like to see if I can give some suggestions. I’ll gladly argue about GW2’s difficulty curve, though. Some people may still find soloing scale 50 Fractals easy peasy, but even they would have to admit that that’s harder than killing mobs in Queensdale at level 9.

RoffleMyWaffles.1295:

Hey everyone. I’m a new player. Before I begin my rant, let me precede by telling you the kind of games I play frequently: DoTA2, Battlefield 3 & 4, Starcraft II, Dragon Age: Origins. For single player games I play on a harder difficulty because I like challenge, and as for the others, I play PvP because I like in-depth mechanics, strategy, and a good challenge.

On to GW2. I picked this game up because my friends raved about it, and after reading the stunning reviews, I went ahead and took the plunge and bought the game. I played World of Warcraft a long time ago and thought that was a decently challenging game. But right now I have a level 9 sylvari and all I can say is this game is INCREDIBLY, INCREDIBLY, INCREDIBLY, INCREDIBLY EASY and BORING!

I am “completely” floored by how easy it is to “kill stuff”. I don’t even need to use 2, 3, or 4, all I do is walk up to stuff (that is my level or higher) and kill in 6 or less hits with auto-attack. Am I missing something here? I haven’t bought anything from the stores. Does the game get harder as you go along? Does the PvE get any better than this? My experience feels way different than everyone else, and I’m wondering if I’m doing it wrong. What exactly makes this game so great to stand out amongst the other MMO’s on the market? Maybe it isn’t for me, but judging by the reviews there’s got to be some hidden substance.

Thanks for the help.

It’s the “new player experience” they ruined the early game because they thought people were quitting over the game being “too hard” or “too confusing”. Basically Arenanet thought its players were not smart enough to figure out the game. Thanks for the vote of confidence, Arenanet!

Azumi.9572:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Don’t really want to get into an argument with a fanboy but meh.

There isn’t anything subjective about it. GW2 is boring. The best part of the game ends when you are finished the story and exploring the maps (This includes Jumping Puzzles).

Um, boring is subjective. It can’t be anything but subjective because everyone is different. I’ve been around since early access, and while I’ve taken breaks, and don’t always log in as much as I did initially, I don’t find it boring. I keep finding reasons to come back, even now with no new content for a LONG time. I’m trying to get 6000 Influence before HoT comes out by finishing the Personal Story a few more times. I have my reasons. But even though I’m playing through the same content, again and again, it’s still fun cause I’m doing it in slightly different ways.

To you that is probably boring. To me it’s not. Thus, subjective.

For the OP you’re probably right on all fronts. This is simply not the game for him. There’s no need to make such a huff about it, as he has, since he shouldn’t have much if anything invested in the game, but there it is. You and he aren’t enjoying it, me and some other people are. It’s subjective.

Devildoc.6721:

RoffleMyWaffles.1295:

Hey everyone. I’m a new player. Before I begin my rant, let me precede by telling you the kind of games I play frequently: DoTA2, Battlefield 3 & 4, Starcraft II, Dragon Age: Origins. For single player games I play on a harder difficulty because I like challenge, and as for the others, I play PvP because I like in-depth mechanics, strategy, and a good challenge.

On to GW2. I picked this game up because my friends raved about it, and after reading the stunning reviews, I went ahead and took the plunge and bought the game. I played World of Warcraft a long time ago and thought that was a decently challenging game. But right now I have a level 9 sylvari and all I can say is this game is INCREDIBLY, INCREDIBLY, INCREDIBLY, INCREDIBLY EASY and BORING!

I am “completely” floored by how easy it is to “kill stuff”. I don’t even need to use 2, 3, or 4, all I do is walk up to stuff (that is my level or higher) and kill in 6 or less hits with auto-attack. Am I missing something here? I haven’t bought anything from the stores. Does the game get harder as you go along? Does the PvE get any better than this? My experience feels way different than everyone else, and I’m wondering if I’m doing it wrong. What exactly makes this game so great to stand out amongst the other MMO’s on the market? Maybe it isn’t for me, but judging by the reviews there’s got to be some hidden substance.

Thanks for the help.

It’s the “new player experience” they ruined the early game because they thought people were quitting over the game being “too hard” or “too confusing”. Basically Arenanet thought its players were not smart enough to figure out the game. Thanks for the vote of confidence, Arenanet!

I’d just like to point out that it has nothing to do with confidence, or a belief. They made the changes they made based on feedback from players and tickets generated by players. They dumbed down the game, not because they thought we were dumb, but because “we” were actually dumb.

challenging open world content – try soloing champs then come back and tell me its too easy lol

Obtena.7952:

RoffleMyWaffles.1295:

Any chance the dev’s will nerf the difficulty so it’s more difficult throughout the whole game?

I doubt it, since that seems to be the market Anet want to appeal to. Frankly, lots of games are easy to level in now, because for some reason, people think the end game is more interesting.

To be fair I’m one of those players who likes to experiment with different ways to play the class and different stat combinations. To me, it’s boring as hell leveling because I can’t do any experimenting until I reach the max level, as I constantly have to keep updating and get the traits and abilities I can go just be effrctive. Don’t get me wrong, I’ll level once or twice just to experience the journey, but afterwards that journey turns into a slog.

If you just recently bought it you must have bought the Heart of Thorns expansion with it. That means you get access to the beta events like the one they’re running this weekend. In the beta, you can make ,ax level characters with high quality gear and check out part of one of the new zones that are specifically designed to provide more challenging and replayable open world content. You can also take those beta characters anywhere else in the game if you want.

Taking part in the beta would provide much better insight into what GW2 is all about than playing for less than an hour in a starter zone.

Funny how the OP seems to completely ignore the advice of trying a dungeon or some sPvP, and rather rips into the open world leveling experience some more.

I think he just wants to complain about something that disappoints him, but is not really looking for an answer.

hahahahahahahahaha lvl 9 and kittenin on game is to easy kid u made me laugh, go in 1st dungeon ascalon story and try thats lvl 30 and try then kittening how easy easy, but i see U gave up already, if u gave up on a lvl 9 then hard games are not for U

Everyone focusing on “oh it gets better/harder later” needs to realize just how badly the NPE damaged the early levels of the game. Had the game been like the NPE when I first started doing beta events, I probably would have asked anet for a refund after the first day of launch when it could no longer be excused as being “in beta”. First impressions are important, too many people think it’s excusable to have a really boring early game and too many devs actually believe it’s excusable too. The early part of the game needs to HOOK you, it needs to impress. People aren’t going to GET to level 35 if playing those first 34 levels is boring.

my first impressions in GW2 betas the first boss instantly downed you, so you had to fight to survive and other players were ressing you, it was a key introduction to how the gameplay worked that boss fights were dangerous and you couldn’t just face tank them, some of them could down you in one shot, and that anyone could help you back up even in combat. I started doing events, and since I’d picked a Charr one of the first events I did involved a champion flame legion shaman. There were dozens of people trying to fight him and he was wiping us all out. There was challenges in the game even right out the door. You didn’t have to wait until max level to be challenged, you were challenged at level 6.

That’s why I even got to level 80, why I didn’t refund the game, and why I kept playing.

The NPE is trash.