When a Warrior is a tankier Thief that does as much or even more damage?
They should just merge those classes. All you see in LFG for any dungeon are “warrior zerkrs”.
As soon as that is a trend on 99% of any LFG you should start revising the class since it overcomes the other making it useless in PvE (anyone can see the advantages of Thief on PvP) but then that just makes it a PvP-ridden class and that is just plain lame.
What does a Thief have? Posions? No one uses them as much as it was intended (not even with the torment petty-bone they threw to the class) and then they have the other major difference that is Stealth but that isn’t even exclusive to Thief class and 14s? of capped stealth is crappy.
The class is useless unless you want to play solo most of the time because you are as squishy as an Elementalist and less useful.
GW2 has thieves because the “rogue” archetype is common in MMORPGs and ArenaNet wanted to cater to players who enjoy it. But the “rogue” archetype is the ganker – the player who jumps from stealth and does burst damage to quickly kill a character who was just moving around, typically in non consensual PvP, and then runs away as fast as possible. This concept does not lend itself to PvE very well – just take a look at the massive failure that was the same archetype in the original Guild Wars, as the Assassins.
Thieves are suited the most for WvW, and a bit for sPvP. For PvE, the archetype is simply not valuable. Which means, dungeon groups will never seek thieves unless ArenaNet gives the profession something completely apart from its main archetype.
“I think that players are starting to mature past the point of wanting to be on that
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
GW2 has thieves because the “rogue” archetype is common in MMORPGs and ArenaNet wanted to cater to players who enjoy it. But the “rogue” archetype is the ganker – the player who jumps from stealth and does burst damage to quickly kill a character who was just moving around, typically in non consensual PvP, and then runs away as fast as possible. This concept does not lend itself to PvE very well – just take a look at the massive failure that was the same archetype in the original Guild Wars, as the Assassins.
Thieves are suited the most for WvW, and a bit for sPvP. For PvE, the archetype is simply not valuable. Which means, dungeon groups will never seek thieves unless ArenaNet gives the profession something completely apart from its main archetype.
Assassins were awesome in GW1. They did get hit hard with all the nerfs though lol.
GW2 has thieves because the “rogue” archetype is common in MMORPGs and ArenaNet wanted to cater to players who enjoy it. But the “rogue” archetype is the ganker – the player who jumps from stealth and does burst damage to quickly kill a character who was just moving around, typically in non consensual PvP, and then runs away as fast as possible. This concept does not lend itself to PvE very well – just take a look at the massive failure that was the same archetype in the original Guild Wars, as the Assassins.
Thieves are suited the most for WvW, and a bit for sPvP. For PvE, the archetype is simply not valuable. Which means, dungeon groups will never seek thieves unless ArenaNet gives the profession something completely apart from its main archetype.
This archetype can lend itself very well to PvE. For some reason ANet has a difficult time implementing it though.
Many games have stealth/rogue type options for the main character in a PvE RPG environment. A couple of examples are Fallout 3 and Deus Ex Machina. I assume Assassin’s Creed falls into this as well, but I never got into that franchise. In both Fallout 3 and Deus Ex Machina, I went through the entire story while being stealthy. Choosing to circumvent my enemies rather than outright killing them.
Ideas for how they can help this out in PvE? Make it so stealth does not make you invisible, but simply reduces your area that you will agro a mob. That means that you do not simply stealth and charge through, you stealth and actually sneak around. Then add in parts in dungeons that take advantage of this mechanic, where a thief could actually help a group by pass a group of trash mobs by sneaking by and accessing some sort of panel that lets the group by.
Assassins were awesome in GW1. They did get hit hard with all the nerfs though lol.
They were a mess. Soon after they were introduced, a lot of people refused to play anything other than “Barranger Assassin” (basically a poor’s man version of a Ranger with Barrage). ArenaNet dealt with the issue by giving the “glass cannon” archetype near permanent invulnerability – Shadow Form – which has nothing to do with the original rogue archetype. It was mostly a farming and speed clear tool, though.
“I think that players are starting to mature past the point of wanting to be on that
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
Assassins were awesome in GW1. They did get hit hard with all the nerfs though lol.
They were a mess. Soon after they were introduced, a lot of people refused to play anything other than “Barranger Assassin” (basically a poor’s man version of a Ranger with Barrage). ArenaNet dealt with the issue by giving the “glass cannon” archetype near permanent invulnerability – Shadow Form – which has nothing to do with the original rogue archetype. It was mostly a farming and speed clear tool, though.
There was also Crit-Scythe sins, BoA burst Sins, Staff Sins (Deadly Art spam) and yeah, perma-SF that could clear almost anything. But still, I loved their combo mechanic.
People demand zerk wars because they are incompetent and/or inept. People regularly clear content just as fast with a wide variety of group comps. In fact I think Nemesis has proved that CoF p1 can be 5 necro zerked in roughly the same time as the standard 4 war 1 mes.
What does a Thief have? Posions? No one uses them as much as it was intended (not even with the torment petty-bone they threw to the class) and then they have the other major difference that is Stealth but that isn’t even exclusive to Thief class and 14s? of capped stealth is crappy.
I assume your just talking about PvE. Just being able to stealth rez teammates and provide buffs for everyone with blast finishers makes me feel useful.
I do think it’s funny that as a thief, i’m usually the top healer in the group (as soon as someone drops a water field, of course).
And the stealth cap doesn’t really bother me, you just have to learn to work within it…it’s really not hard.
What does a Thief have? Posions? No one uses them as much as it was intended (not even with the torment petty-bone they threw to the class) and then they have the other major difference that is Stealth but that isn’t even exclusive to Thief class and 14s? of capped stealth is crappy.
I assume your just talking about PvE. Just being able to stealth rez teammates and provide buffs for everyone with blast finishers makes me feel useful.
I do think it’s funny that as a thief, i’m usually the top healer in the group (as soon as someone drops a water field, of course).
And the stealth cap doesn’t really bother me, you just have to learn to work within it…it’s really not hard.
Yep, if you forget thinking about damage what are the things thieves bring to a team
Reliable stealth for skipping mobs (the Mesmers is just too kitten short, the only other class that can do this is a clever Engineer)
Ability to stealth players and rez them safely
Smoke fields, which stop projectiles.
one of the best spam-able blast finishers in the game.
a blink with NO cooldown (other than having initiative). Amazingly useful in the Dredge fractal, as they can stealth rez a player while running then immediately blink up to pull a lever.
The ability to drop agro.
Warriors bring none of these things. The issue is more with the player playing the thief and other people in the team not understanding what a thief can do than the class itself in PvE.
Also when used correctly they have the highest burst in the game, which is really useful on things like the switch in CoF p1. but that is damage.
As someone who plays both warrior and thief I have to disagree. You obviously play a greatsword warrior who can do amazing bursts in PvE compared to the thief.
They both have their own utility. In my personal opinion, the warrior is just so much more work in PvP compared to any other class, and lacks the stealth and escapability that the thief has. I don’t play burst on either my warrior or thief though. Like I said, they’re two different classes with entirely different utility and usefulness depending on the situation. Merging them would be infuriating.
Being safe for when the nerfhammer destroys your main. Thanks Anet for destroying necromancers, now to think wich of my other 80’s to main again. One that is nerf-immune.
Legendary weapons can be hidden now!
No excuse anymore for not giving ‘hide mounts’-option
No thanks to unidentified weapons.
People demand zerk wars because they are incompetent and/or inept. People regularly clear content just as fast with a wide variety of group comps. In fact I think Nemesis has proved that CoF p1 can be 5 necro zerked in roughly the same time as the standard 4 war 1 mes.
CoF p1 can be 5 anything zerked in roughly the same time because classes have roughly the same dps and it is absurdly easy.
Problem is as soon as you want to speed run anything that isn’t trivially simple viable classes drops to warrior, guardian, mesmer and maybe ele.
The issue is more with the player playing the thief and other people in the team not understanding what a thief can do than the class itself in PvE.
Yes! Thank you! The problem is not with the thief but with other players thinking warriors are the be all end all of dungeons these days. I lost count of how many zerker warriors have screwed my team in FoTM. It seems like zerker warriors have been established as what you have to play in order to be useful. The issue arises when bad players are zerker warriors. Don’t get me wrong, a skilled zerker warrior will straight up dominate some PvE content. But an unskilled zerker warrior blows. Hard. Constantly downed/dead.
I’m close to exclusively running all dungeons without zerker warriors (ones that aren’t on my friends list— because they are legit).
Thieves, when you’re feeling down, consider this: at least you’re not a necromancer.
… T.T
Genuinely though, the balance of this game needs some serious reworking. The necromancer was buffed not long ago, now it’s been nerfed back into the ground. Why? The class was finally viable. Oh, yes, a single overpowered PvP spec… The poor, neglected Ranger has just been buffed a little. No doubt next month it’ll be shoved back down too.
Short order of it all seems to be that Anet wasnts you to play Warriors, Guardians or Mesmers and bad luck to those who want to play anything else. You might as well be carpets for those three to stomp over.
When a Warrior is a tankier Thief that does as much or even more damage?
They should just merge those classes. All you see in LFG for any dungeon are “warrior zerkrs”.
And yet a Thief can make certain fractals Trivial while a Warrior cannot…. I’ll take a Thief over a Warrior for fractals any day, but I guess the pugs that post “warrior zerker” messages on lfg.com are total idiots
The real issue is that with no tanks or healers there is no one to keep the thief alive except for them using survival abilities. When you are using survival abilities you can no longer be doing high damage. So the speed clear elitest would rather take the more durable warrior.
Warrior is just pure DPS, they are used to make things go by faster, but with more challenging content like Fractals 40+ they are becoming less useful, but thieves do need some balance in PvE. If you think they are the worst profession in the game, may I direct you to Rangers? Although I really think a lot of it is learn 2 play issue for most rangers and thieves just don’t team up with kittens and you’ll be okay.
