Guild Wars 2

Hey there,

Personally when I log into Guild Wars 2, I stay in for about 10 mins then I just log off. I’ve no desire to really do anything in the game. Now this doesn’t have anything to do with the whole Ascended Gear system, or how there is now a rift between players because of fractal staging, or whatever else is happening in the game. I just don’t find the game fun, like at all.

I really couldn’t put my finger on exactly what was even wrong with the game. There are builds to differentiate my character. The art style is pleasing. There’s content to finish. There are people running around, and chatting. There’s pretty much every core feature a successful MMO needs.

So why do I, and so many other people end up not logging in to play this game?

Well, I was recently given this very delightful short (9mins) video that really put so much into perspective for me on game design.

(clicky – http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uepAJ-rqJKA#! The makers of this video have posted no opinion towards GW2, and the mechanics within the game. This is just a general video on Aesthetics of a Game.)

Really, I think I’ve found the reason (for me at least) why I feel Guild Wars 2 just isn’t standing up against other MMO’s I’ve played, and enjoyed.

Guild Wars 2 game mechanics do not match the overall aesthetic of the game. In other words, how the game plays doesn’t exactly equal the intended game environment we’re all experiencing.

Here are a couple examples:

• Lots of content equals not a lot of in game balance for the player. Often this game feels like a chore. Just running through one zone to another can demonstrate how monsters, events, and quests can be overwhelming. Not only do zones feel over crowded at times, but newer content often feels at odds with the older content.

• Getting rid of the trinity system equals everyone doing the same thing, but on a level of effective to not very effective. Getting rid of the trinity was supposed to offer open doors to all jobs, but as many of us have noticed this system really put job classes in a position where we’re all basically DPS. This is reflected with how events, dungeons, anything involved in a group feels more like a ‘zergfest’ than an actual strategic group effort. Not to mention with everyone basically becoming dps, the sad base foundation of damage per second is the fact that there will always be jobs that can do this more effectively than others.

Now this thread isn’t a hate on Guild Wars 2, and I don’t intend on promoting negativity towards this title. Really, I want to offer another way to look at what’s really causing problems between Players and Developers in this game in hopes these issues can be fixed.

What are some issues you feel as a player in Guild Wars 2’s game mechanics really reflect poorly in the game itself? Or if you feel I’m totally off my rocker on this issue, why so?

Thanks for reading.

EDIT:

I’m going to quote one of my posts in hopes of a little clarification on this thread for posters, and readers.

TheUndefined.1720:

Harbard.5738:

Great, now it’s gonna be a grindfest with a holy trinity in it.

Lol, I really don’t think you understood my post.

I am not saying:

• Getting rid of the trinity system is a bad idea.

What I am saying is:

• ArenaNet’s mechanics of getting rid of the trinity system didn’t translate well into Guild Wars 2.

That’s not to say we should have a trinity system. That is saying maybe the developers should take a look at their system, and find ways to improve upon it so the game doesn’t feel like a ‘zergfest’ at times.

Also those were only examples to start a discussion. There are plenty of other issues that may have been poorly implemented, and I truly believe discussing these features will help improve this game.

I certainly agree that there are thins ANet could be doing to make the game more enjoyable, particularly getting to your second point. I don’t really see support or condition as viable options in PvE, and they certainly should be.

If it weren’t for the whole Ascended Gear debacle, I wouldn’t be all that worried about the future of the game. I found the precedent set by GW1 to be that eventually everything sorts itself out. I agree that there are a lot of things I don’t particularly want to be doing, but eventually there will be enough content to content myself with

jakep.9572:

I certainly agree that there are thins ANet could be doing to make the game more enjoyable, particularly getting to your second point. I don’t really see support or condition as viable options in PvE, and they certainly should be.

If it weren’t for the whole Ascended Gear debacle, I wouldn’t be all that worried about the future of the game. I found the precedent set by GW1 to be that eventually everything sorts itself out. I agree that there are a lot of things I don’t particularly want to be doing, but eventually there will be enough content to content myself with

Thanks for your response.

I think I’m in a very similar boat as you’re in. Personally, (and here comes the pitchforks comment.. Lol) I really -really- didn’t like GW1 Proph. Generally I felt my character was weak, the content progression was too slow, and I just really didn’t like any of the classes.

It wasn’t until Nightfall that I really felt ANet got into the rhythm of things. That’s a very similar view I have with GW2. I have a feeling after a few years this game will really be fine tuned and fun for everyone.

I don’t particularly agree nor disagree, but i gotta voice out my opinion that personally i think removing “holy trinity” is mistake in the end.
Or then they did something wrong, i don’t know.
For now i wouldn’t mind getting trinity back.

My personal problem with GW2 is that none of the classes feel fun for me.

I tried every single one and not one really feels.. that great..

Also extremely disappointing by the variety in armor and weapon aesthetics. There are also NO DECENT TOWN CLOTHES. All the ones sold in the gem store are gimmicky and silly to me.

Quality of Life issues, ANet needs to deal with it.

• Fixing profession bugs is part of that.

• Removing annoyances (ex. out of control NPC chatter)

• Mob/Dungeon re-balancing

• Fixing buggy combat mechanics and culling

There’s more, but you get the idea.

I won’t bring up the vertical progression issue here.

I watched the video and it was very helpful to get some insights on the lower levels of game design. Thanks for the link btw. I usually am at a higher level in thinking about game genre, i.e., arpg=smash monsters/find awesome loot. But that definition really incorporates a collection of underlying elements that combine to create my experience. I’m sure there are aspects of GW2 that could use some polishing to better integrate and produce the intended effect. Sadly, because of the Ascended gear uproar I’ve been side-tracked into thinking about the consequences of deviation from the manifesto. It might have been better for Anet to work on refinement and evolution rather than scraping the manifesto and heading in another direction. They now have so many dynamics and countervailing forces at work it’s going to take a miracle to get things sorted out. It feels like a game that was guided by a great vision go to one where they are making it up as they go along. Given the situation, I don’t even know where to begin in a discussion like this.

The problems for me is that a hate to be forced to do something to be effective, when its supposed to have fun.

I have to say that gw2 have some boring issue, unbalance, bugs, lack of content… etc etc etc…
but its a 3 month old game, i cant pretend too much… it need only time to grow and fix.

My problem with GW2 is called Ascended tier. (or stats grind).

Thanks for the posts everyone!

Although I understand there are a plethora of issues many people feel are harming their enjoyment of Guild Wars 2; I think it could be much more constructive for the development team to hear how these problems may be affected from mechanics being poorly translated into actual game play.

As an example:

• Fixing profession bugs could equal ArenaNet attempting to stretch certain job classes to far, and too thin. Poorly designed job classes without a lot of depth often results in more issues to fix than enjoyment for the players. A big example I’ve seen of this would be the engineer class.

As a community of Guild Wars 2 let’s try looking at how these problems in game could be a product of great ideas on paper, bad ideas in game!

In any case, everyone’s points are really insightful to Guild Wars 2, and I sincerely hope the Developers are listening.

I am glad that they removed the holy trinity and have no raids. I also have enjoyed all the content they offered. Played everything but SPVP because I have been too focused on other stuff.

But if you are not enjoying it, that is okay. There are games that others love that I just don’t like. I also cannot explain what it is. So I just do not play those games and I do not criticize those games (notice how I am not even mentioning their names in this thread. but they are real popular).

However, with the introduction of the gear progression and change in direction, I have lost my GW2 joy. Like someone said, I recognized that the game had things that needed to be fixed or improved upon (bugs, skills progression, more incentive for high-levels to play in lower lvls and more high-lvl areas). However, I expected that they would get those things in the game over time. I did not expect that they would rip the heart out of the game by abandoning a feature they have been talking about for years.

Raine.1394:

I watched the video and it was very helpful to get some insights on the lower levels of game design. Thanks for the link btw. I usually am at a higher level in thinking about game genre, i.e., arpg=smash monsters/find awesome loot. But that definition really incorporates a collection of underlying elements that combine to create my experience. I’m sure there are aspects of GW2 that could use some polishing to better integrate and produce the intended effect. Sadly, because of the Ascended gear uproar I’ve been side-tracked into thinking about the consequences of deviation from the manifesto. It might have been better for Anet to work on refinement and evolution rather than scraping the manifesto and heading in another direction. They now have so many dynamics and countervailing forces at work it’s going to take a miracle to get things sorted out. It feels like a game that was guided by a great vision go to one where they are making it up as they go along. Given the situation, I don’t even know where to begin in a discussion like this.

Thanks Raine for your post! I’m really happy you enjoyed the video as well.

I completely understand your stance on this issue. At the very least the point you brought up with not even knowing where to begin in a discussion like this. However, that’s really a great thing!

I feel when we, as consumers, are left a little speechless when being presented with a problem, it’s really an opportunity for us to think. When I first watched that video, the entire time I was thinking Guild Wars 2. Even when I posted this thread I often paused not really knowing where to start.

I don’t believe this points towards the game having too many problems to fix, but instead I felt I was being put in a position of developer not player. Perhaps this stance on Guild Wars 2 can really help players provide great feedback that will resonate in the developers of Arenanet.

Great, now it’s gonna be a grindfest with a holy trinity in it.

EDIT: I’ve added this post in my original post, because I feel people may be misunderstanding the spirit of my discussion. So if you read my OP, and are reading the replies, feel free to skip this one and save some time.

Harbard.5738:

Great, now it’s gonna be a grindfest with a holy trinity in it.

Lol, I really don’t think you understood my post.

I am not saying:

• Getting rid of the trinity system is a bad idea.

What I am saying is:

• ArenaNet’s mechanics of getting rid of the trinity system didn’t translate well into Guild Wars 2.

That’s not to say we should have a trinity system. That is saying maybe the developers should take a look at their system, and find ways to improve upon it so the game doesn’t feel like a ‘zergfest’ at times.

Also those were only examples to start a discussion. There are plenty of other issues that may have been poorly implemented, and I truly believe discussing these features will help improve this game.

Being hit by so many people when you are underpowered as it is, isn’t fun at all.

spvp seems to be much worse than dungeons and WvW where you have a bit more support most of the time.

TheUndefined.1720:

Thanks Raine for your post! I’m really happy you enjoyed the video as well.

I completely understand your stance on this issue. At the very least the point you brought up with not even knowing where to begin in a discussion like this. However, that’s really a great thing!

I feel when we, as consumers, are left a little speechless when being presented with a problem, it’s really an opportunity for us to think. When I first watched that video, the entire time I was thinking Guild Wars 2. Even when I posted this thread I often paused not really knowing where to start.

I don’t believe this points towards the game having too many problems to fix, but instead I felt I was being put in a position of developer not player. Perhaps this stance on Guild Wars 2 can really help players provide great feedback that will resonate in the developers of Arenanet.

Another thing that has my creativity blocked is I don’t know where they want to take GW2. What kind of game do they want to create? We know the genre, but what differentiates it from other games in the genre? I think, firstly, we need to know the contents of Manifesto 2.0 that reflects the current vision for GW2.

your first mistake is thinking there is no trinity or “no role’s” to play ((come on im a warrior with a Healer/saport build.))

this game may not have the holy Trinity but i will be kitten if it dosnt have role’s that need to be filled

((bet you didnt know we call a defensive build in this game a Bunker insted of a Tank and i bet you dont know why))

I have 2 issues that negatively affect my enjoyment of the game:
1) I MUCH PREFER being able to decide whether or not to “attack” a “neutral-type” critter (such as deer, moose, tuna, salmon, etc). I DO NOT appreciate having a “mindless” AI make those decisions for me. Currently, that state of affairs is endemic in this game————usually at the “wrong” time and against the “wrong” critter.

2) While I understand (to an extent) ANets desire to create a world where actions are not always A-B-C, but where chaos CAN reign unchecked———I’m too often diasppointed to find myself trying to complete a “Renown Heart” or a “Skill Quest” or even a “group event”-where NO group can be found!! (That makes this game a “mission impossible”). I have far better things to do with my free time than to login to a game to “wait for a group to show up”.

undouble
Balsa Micoil

TheUndefined.1720:

What I am saying is:

• ArenaNet’s mechanics of getting rid of the trinity system didn’t translate well into Guild Wars 2.

That’s not to say we should have a trinity system. That is saying maybe the developers should take a look at their system, and find ways to improve upon it so the game doesn’t feel like a ‘zergfest’ at times.

I think this is clearly one area that can be discussed. It was illustrated graphically for me in this weekend’s event. I was playing it ranged and my visual was the boss and a sea of downed players that were in melee range. You know, it looked like a cemetery with neatly aligned tombstones. There is something jarring about a plate class that can’t go toe-to-toe with a boss if they are properly built. It takes me back to early D3 where barbarians, the consummate berserker, had to kite white mobs like a sissy. We know in our gut that there is something wrong with the picture. I don’t know the answer to this, but the trinity at least had an answer to the problem. I remember a dungeon in WoW where a tank almost soloed a boss from 25% hp after the rest of us wiped. It was a thing of beauty really, someone fulfilling their role (and more) exquisitely. I’m leaning more towards trinity, if zergfest with tombstones is the alternative.

UnderdogSMO.9428:

your first mistake is thinking there is no trinity or “no role’s” to play ((come on im a warrior with a Healer/saport build.))

this game may not have the holy Trinity but i will be kitten if it dosnt have role’s that need to be filled

((bet you didnt know we call a defensive build in this game a Bunker insted of a Tank and i bet you dont know why))

Hello there UnderdogSMO, and thanks for your response!

I’m fully aware that there are roles to be filled in this game. However, I feel that you’re missing my point.

Warrior is probably the most effective class in guild wars 2, right beside Guardian. Although the developers were very successful in bridging the gaps between Tank – DPS – Healers with this class there are many more classes in this game that weren’t as successful.

This creates a rift between players (such as yourself and I), and often just a mess of arguments that the development team really have to work hard at trying to pull constructive information to improve on their game.

There will always be exceptions to issues with anything you discuss. Yet that does not necessarily mean there isn’t a problem that should be addressed.

In any case, I’m happy to hear you’re enjoying Warrior, and thanks for the post.

point is, its boring. Each patch they do mess’s somthing else up that was working fine.

I agree with the op. Either give players resitance and blocking stat or skills. OR remove that BS auto attack that monsters do just like in every lame mmo. Sure we get 2 dodge rolls, whoopie doo. Spend them and then what stand there take more damage?

Basicaly the game is this. You take all this damage but get no real skills to deal with the damage recived and the skills that some profs do get are pathetic. 2-3 seconds and most time they dont work for the duration.

What got me hooked on this game before it came out was that i read the player gets to dodge attacks. My mistake for not researching it and didnt know its just another bad skill. Why is it so hard to alow the player to beable to side step and projectile incoming to them? diablo2 was able to do this. Ive yet to play another game that has.

Valtameri.2075:

I don’t particularly agree nor disagree, but i gotta voice out my opinion that personally i think removing “holy trinity” is mistake in the end.
Or then they did something wrong, i don’t know.
For now i wouldn’t mind getting trinity back.

The holy trinity has one big problem: If the ratio of players able to take the roles for any specific thing is different to the ratio that players decide is optimal, some people will spend much longer waiting for groups than others.
With the trinity gone, people just fill up the group with the first available people. Meaning less of a wait time for most players, still a quick wait time for people playing the less common roles.

That is why removing the trinity is a good thing. Nobody has to spend ages finding a group just because they are playing a popular class.

sixfeetunder.6508:

point is, its boring. Each patch they do mess’s somthing else up that was working fine.

I agree with the op. Either give players resitance and blocking stat or skills. OR remove that BS auto attack that monsters do just like in every lame mmo. Sure we get 2 dodge rolls, whoopie doo. Spend them and then what stand there take more damage?

Basicaly the game is this. You take all this damage but get no real skills to deal with the damage recived and the skills that some profs do get are pathetic. 2-3 seconds and most time they dont work for the duration.

What got me hooked on this game before it came out was that i read the player gets to dodge attacks. My mistake for not researching it and didnt know its just another bad skill. Why is it so hard to alow the player to beable to side step and projectile incoming to them? diablo2 was able to do this. Ive yet to play another game that has.

blind, block, confusion, dodge, ((gardion shilds and bubles)) and healing . if you
dont know how to use this stuff to eflectively mitigate damage than I think you need to Understand that your just not vary good at this game

and if you tell me your class can not do ALL of that you need to also understanded that this is a team focused game

I really hope Anet will read the threads in the forums and work to fix the game.
and start talk to us… cuz really they don’t tell us a think about whats going to happen. and if it continue like this me and I know more people will quit the game.
cuz it isn’t what they told us it will be. and I fell like I’ve been lied to, just so ill give them money and buy the game

Raine.1394:

I think this is clearly one area that can be discussed. It was illustrated graphically for me in this weekend’s event. I was playing it ranged and my visual was the boss and a sea of downed players that were in melee range. You know, it looked like a cemetery with neatly aligned tombstones.

Some of the dead people had likely Berserker-statted armor. Lot of others weren’t melee classes.

There were two main problems of mass deaths in this last event (well, three). First was that in this event, the fodder consisted of mid-boss type monsters. In some cases a whole lot of them at once. Second was visibility – if you don’t see opponents until after they have killed you, there is not much you can do to survive. Third was the Karka skills – veterans and champions had a type of attack (rolling) that was a sure one-shot kill to anyone. If this game had true tanks, the attack would likely oneshot them as well. Coupled with the first two points (a group of such monsters attacking you, and inability to see them preparing to use such skill), and a relatively narrow staircase it had created a real deathtrap.
Also, the Karka mobs had a long range artillery type attack, and kept firing it from invisibility in massive salvos. It was not as bad as the rolling kill – could be survived and healed through, and was easier to avoid – but it added to the chaos.

It was not the mechanics of the game that resulted in piles of corpses, but rather mechanics specific to the event.

Astralporing.1957:

There were two main problems of mass deaths in this last event…[snip]

I was actually using the weekend’s event as illustrative of a aha! moment. It is no different than what I see in most dynamic events with a Champion involved. Melee often go down in short order. In fact that is the more common scenario than seeing them survive. It seems that players don’t have the survivability to play in melee range for very long. The distinction is that is very uncommon in a game with the trinity in place. I’ve done a lot of 25-man’s in another game and if you see even one person down it mean’s someone did something very wrong, even in a pug situation (yes, you can pug 25-man in that game). Sure, it does happen, but it’s not the norm. I don’t want to believe that the quality of player is just way lower in GW2 than other games. Is it possible that the profession’s dynamics are contributing?

Great Post! The video explains what has been haunting the Video Game Industry for the past 20 years. The disconnect between players and Developers/Designers has grown larger every year.

On the Topic, what is wrong with GW2.

• The disconnect between these 2 activities; the casual enjoyable albeit flawed public events and on the other side the hardcore dungeon grind.

• The disconnect between the casual and zerg oriented WvWvW and the structured and serious sPvP.

These 2 environments do not mix well, the mechanics do not work for both equally. It’s already a challenge to mix PvP and PvE in the same game due to balancing issues additionally mixing casual vs. structured is just crazy.

-/-

My other gripe is the complete lack of understanding how game economies work.

The best example is what i call “Buttergate”. Removing these items (butter, chocolate etc.) from Karma vendors and putting them into ALL the sack drops not realizing that this will not solve the problem (cooking is too easy, cheap) but instead do the exact opposite.

Then creating a time limited “sink” that also alienates players by giving an exclusive item only for a limited time, again, not realizing that once the recipe is taken off again, butter will just drop down to historical lows immediately.

After these disasters they finally realize that maybe removing them from sacks might be the better idea, but only half kitten it again and we still have to this day more butter than we ever need (and chocolate etc.)

We see this disconnect again, shortly after the “Buttergate” affair, creating a Diminishing Returns System that is on top of all things flawed to begin with but never addresses the real issue: The badly designed dungeons. Again a complete disconnect from actual reality how players experience it.

Cheers | Skyrant

TheUndefined.1720:

Personally when I log into Guild Wars 2, I stay in for about 10 mins then I just log off. I’ve no desire to really do anything in the game.

So why do I, and so many other people end up not logging in to play this game?

You are going to find lots of reasons, there are a couple of million players who bought this game.

For me, I had this problem too at first. However, the reason was that I wasn’t used to the sheer level of openness, and freedom to explore, that this game provides.

I was used to being explicitly led around by quest hubs… a quest giver which a giant exclamation mark on his head waiting for people to drop by.

It was jarring to walk around and have some NPC see me and react to me. They ask for help, or something is going on that I can help with.

It felt so random and unstructured. I was confused. So I would play a bit, then log off.

It took a while to get used to this style.

Once that old mindset was overcome, I could really appreciate the things I liked before.

I liked not being flatfooted while fighting, just trading blows. I like being able to move and fight.

I love the gorgeous scenery. Not trying to be super realistic like Rift, but with incredible detail nonetheless and a wonderful artistic aesthetic.

I liked the personality my character was given (I play an arrogant little Asura). You should hear the crazy things that guy says in battle.

Those little personality things make a big difference to me. I connect more with this 3 month old character than I did with my 4 year old character in another MMO.

This is a new game, with lots of potential for growth and polish (e.g. fixing bugs). However, I love playing this game and see the efforts they make to make things better.

Hopefully you’ll end up liking this game too.

If not, there are tons of games to play out there. Hope you find one you like.

The problem with GW2 is that it did not build on the great GW1.

Hey there Kingfisher,

If you’ll read the rest of my post, you’ll find that I really discovered the problem I had with the game. Thanks for the suggestions.

@ Skyrant Kangaroomouse,

Thanks so much for the thoughtful post.

I believe this is really the core problem with the majority of games I’ve played recently. There’s this HUGE lack of communication between developers and players.

(Like the video I posted states) The developers come in from the mechanics point of view, then build up to to the overall Aesthetic of the game. Players go backwards, we start with the Aesthetic while working backwards to the mechanics. The problem I’ve noticed game developers tend to have is the whole cannot see the forest for all the trees. They’re not seeing the big picture together.

Sadly, most of the time when players state what is wrong with a game it’s very difficult to point out where in the mechanics is the fault. What may seem to be the obvious problem to players, might actually not even relate to the mechanic we blame. Unfortunately, this results in game fixes that either cause more trouble, or just bad designs in general.

In the case of Guild Wars 2, I feel this game had the absolute best intentions with very poor implementation. Hopefully through this thread the developers can take this constructive criticism, and see where some of their systems need tweaking while others need reinforcement.

Only time will tell, and hopefully during that time we, as gamers, will be able to better communicate our feedback in a more positive way not only towards each other, but to the developers.

Like i’ve stated before, i really feel like the issues in this game stem from the removal of trinity mechanics and the deep skill system found in GW1. For obvious problems, they’ve gone a different route. I think they could have done the trinity right had they tried and the game would be better for it. No bar customization contributes to people not really caring to play…the traits system and how free-from and side show it is..how encounters are designed with one or few mechanics, but ridiculously large health bars? They definitely made a mistake in the combat system. They’ve made grouping redundant. The game is floundering in my opinion because it doesn’t bring people together to share a deep, engaging experience. The meat of an online game like this is always the combat system and i believe they are falling flat on their face. Look out for a more organized, unabridged, and professional write up on the issues and proposed solutions i have concerning GW2 in the future.

Thanks OP for a really interesting video, and for starting a great discussion! While I’ve tried to explain my own similar feelings to GW2 elsewhere, I thought I’d take a stab at the particular question you asked.

For me personally, I’d say the following are areas where the mechanics of PvE don’t necessarily match the aesthetic I am looking for (wrongly or rightly) in this genre:

1. Levels and power progression – only partially subverted by zone-based scaling and a cosmetic gear grind.

• This is probably the biggest thing that I don’t really understand in the game (and Ascended armour hasn’t changed this at all).
• Zone-based scaling down to an appropriate level for your area is a fantastic solution to prevent consumed content from becoming worthless in a levelling game, but it still leaves in place all the other issues inherent in the model.
• More challenging areas and content are still gated from players until they increase their numerical statistics to a certain point (through levelling up and acquiring higher-level gear), and the inevitable end of the leveling process (either explicitly at some arbitrary ‘maximum power’ point or implicitly through a soft limit which would take phenomenal time investment to surpass) causes either frustration or boredom at the sudden change in gameplay options.

From an aesthetics perspective, I don’t mind measuring things in games by numbers, but I want those numbers to be symbolic of the Fantasy, Expression, Narrative or Discovery aspects equally. Instead, character and gear levels in Guild Wars tend to represent mostly Challenge, Narrative and Submission components on a very linear, one-dimensional scale.

In my opinion, GW2 PvE tries to appeal both to those who enjoy progression/immersion (the focus is on the player’s avatar) and action/mastery (the focus is on the avatar’s player), and I’m not sure either group is completely satisfied by the resulting clash in mechanics.

2. Very ‘gamey’ play that takes place in a richly ‘worldy’-seeming environment.

• GW2 I think has exceeded all its predecessors in the beauty, intricacy and sheer artistic quality of it’s world craft and environments (I guess that hits the Sensation aesthetic pretty strongly), yet one of the most jarring parts for me personally is how very much like every other game it actually plays.
• Given how beautiful the world looks and the level of depth and detail that has been added, I expected that there would be more mechanisms to interact with the world and its inhabitants than in previous MMO games. Unfortunately, that didn’t turn out to be true.
• Just like all the other recent members of the MMOG family, combat is everything, you use various combat abilities to beat down your opponent, they drop sparkly pinata gifts and XP, they respawn in a few seconds and you move on to the next area. ‘Dynamic’ events are nice scripted story sequences that allow you to temporarily alter your surroundings, but come back in an hour and everything will have reset and you can do the exact same quest again, just like anywhere else. The personal story is drip-fed in chunks gated by level and gear, and it all takes place in a nice, safe, instanced personal holodeck where nothing you do actually matters or has relevance to the ‘real’ persistent world you left behind.
• It’s faster, smoother, more action-oriented and definitely much more polished than its siblings, but ultimately it’s much the same game as all the other Diku-MMOs.

I’ve read that the huge surge/decay population movement we are seeing in most post-WoW MMOs is not a new phenomenon, but in fact echoes (on a much larger scale) similar surge/decay movements with the explosion of mostly-stock MUDs in the 90’s. Raph Koster has a brilliant article on it from 2006 called The more things change…:

Ironically, it is the Diku model that was then imitated by EverQuest, and has now become the default gameplay mode for MMORPGs. To anyone who played in those days, the differences between EQ and WoW are very much akin to the differences between any two Diku-derivatives: mostly in polish and minor game changes. There is nothing new under the sun. WoW and EQ seem very different until you have literally 4000 other games very much like them, set in contrast to some games that are very very different.

Thank you so much Roven Leafsong,

I’m sure I’m probably upsetting someone for constantly posting these thank you’s, but I can’t help to do so.

You’ve risen such great points, and I can only hope the developers are keeping an open ear as well as an open mind.

As a long-time mmo player (started on a diku mud) I can confirm the existence of the model now best known as the “WoW” model.

However, GW1 was not an iteration of this model. It was…different. A Wizard of Earthsea in a world of Lord of the Rings clones.

Why did GW2 stray? Probably the siren’s song of WoW’s money, but this has always been a trap for the foolish devs.

Zid.4196:

As a long-time mmo player (started on a diku mud) I can confirm the existence of the model now best known as the “WoW” model.

Apart from WoW, how many MMOs using the WoW model are doing well ?

Note that if they switched from subscription to F2P, I’d consider that a failure. Ones that started F2P are a different story.