Guild Wars 2

I have been playing this game since beta… And I can’t believe what is it becoming. Only one reason- people complaining it is to hard. Seriously? I can see people complaining about hard new dailies and hard LS achievements? anet did great job in my opinion in last episode… It was challenging, especially if you did it solo, and required knowing game mechanic to get achievement. It rly felt good after completing the set. And afterward I see they flame Anet for making it hard. It is supposed to be that way. They made challenging content without making grinding(excluding SW) and killing 1000k hp boss.
You shouldn’t be making easy content only. Veteran players like challenge. And Gw2 is starting to lack ones. Keep the line between casuals and veterans. There is lot of things for casuals to do. They can complete it after they get better at game, and there is no content left. And will feel rewarded afterwards, when they are able to complete it.
Also I can see complains about dailies. They are hard? Rly? I personally dislike them, cause they force noobs into ranked arenas and mining and Vista viewer are simply time wasters. But event competition being hard. Come on… It is achievement, you need to do something harder kitten . I think you need to change it to a bit of interesting things to do. Not lumber and mine. Like complete event chain in some zones. There are a lot of good events people never did with great lore. Like attacking Shania fortress in norn starting area.
Also suggestion… I would like to see pvp events of at least 10 to 15 people. Where you can use your gear with stats and based on conquest maps from pvp. wvw usury have bigger zergs where skill rly don’t mater a lot. Just the clash. But 10 people with 4-5 caps would matter. Also using stat gear would make you proud of your ascended gear, and will force you to collect and try new builds.

Hope you have your flame-resistant suit ready. But I do agree with your points. Completely.

If that is your mindset, this might not be the game for you. My concern is that they break existing and working systems instead of adding new content. I have been around to witness several patches that blasted forward progression in this game back to the stone age instead of helping:

1.) Living story S1 and scarlet briar/destruction on lions arch > content no one can replay. The only good thing that game out of this is not having to run so far to the TP from the crafting stations in LA. That could have been fixed with a simply NPC placement instead of wasting so many resources leveling an entire city in an event that no one event remembers or talks about anymore.

2.) Fractured: worst patch ever. Blasted fractal progression back to the stone age with a level reset and no new rewards. Fractals are pretty much dead content now. They also ruined thaumanova by putting scarlet in it, giving us the impression that the whole Kiel vs. gnashblade election was just staged.

3.) PvP Matchmaking patch: Blew up MMR and added a courtyard map that everyone hated, now premades just farm courtyard all day and reap rewards at light speed while casuals just quit pvp altogether. GG.

4.) NPE: While not all bad, really messed up the trait system. No you spend the first 40 levels spamming 1 over and over on chosen class. forces linear progression on a game that was never meant to be linear.

5.) Daily change: Just why? Nothing was wrong with the old system aside from the fact that dailies are boring in general. Now we have a new interface, less daily options, and oh yea dailies are still boring.

6.) TA Aetherpath: New dungeons that’s over the top in difficulty compared to other dungeons and has no rewards for the extended time. Completely destroyed and existing TA path that could have just been fixed with a balance tweak to the last boss.

7.) Mawdrey: God… worst grind ever. Reminds me of getting the fenris set in Aion, which made me want to dunk baby goats in lava.

People want to play the way they want, which is also known as, doing nothing but wanting everything from AP to Laurels to other items.

The whole concept of ‘’we don’t want grind, we want enjoyable content’’ is nothing but a whining method. If the content is easy then you can finish it fast and there will be nothing to do. If Anet want you to play more, they will make you play this easy content again and again and people will complain. If the content is hard, people will complain that it is too hard. And the new whining method is using ‘’how can new players finish the achievments?’’.

@lordhelmos: you are the one who seem play the wrong game. GW2 was never a title to reward you for harder content. If you want to play the Aetherpath for normal rewards, go ENJOY the experience because the point isn’t about the rewards but rather about experiencing the content itself.

Oh wait, you are telling me the system is flawed? well, it seems that it took you two years to even understand the system behind GW2. One of the drawbacks is that the game isn’t really rewarding if you are playing it for loot or whatsover. Like how other MMOs have their flaws, the reward system in GW2 is flawed and has always been. Therefore, if you don’t have the mentality to enjoy the game without awaiting better rewards, then you are actually playing the wrong game, going by your fancy logic.

That is exactly my point. This game was never about loot and grinding. It was for enjoying the content. And that content is becoming to easy and to simple. It’s going towards average mmorpg that already exist on market. I don’t need reward for hard content… I rly want to play that content. SW was good idea, it’s Interesting concept that was ruined by breach lfg and endless farming. I enjoyed it, learning how to defend and attack best. Until it became chest farm and breach runners with empty maps.
I need more hard content. Where good skill really matters. Where you don’t have to stack on one spot to finish dungeon. Just to farm gold and tokens. New players will eventually learn the game and be able to do that hard content.
We need good bosses with smart skills, we need event chains that are harder to successfully complete and that will take time to learn and master. What is the accomplishment and fun behind 2k Ap of 1 year mining in kryta? Wouldn’t it be better to have guilds organise it’s players to complete something challenging… After all its Guild wars.
Only way I want to be rewarded for hard content is completing rly hard things. That are worth of my 2 years of experience in this game

Exactly what nGumball said… People want Ap and laurels for doing nothing. What is fun in that. What What is fun in doing simple auto attacks on mindless bosses, mining 4 ores, or running from boss to boss and one hitting it in St.
It’s becoming only another more grind fest. And I have hope in anet they will not allow it.

@lordhelmos

3)as those premades keep winning, their MMR should continue to increase, thus they will face other people with similar MMR. That and before the holidays, the Dev was very active on the forums, listening and making adjustments. I would still give it time before passing judgment, its barely a month old.

4) please, please, please stop. The trait change DID NOT, I repeat DID NOT happen during the NPE change. Those were two seperate patches. People wanted the capture skill from gw1 back, somehow the devs misheard or overdid it with the traits, giving us what we have today. People wanted NEW traits to capture, while keeping a default set, and not reducing it to just a few points.

I remember people complaining about how short it was… not how hard it is.

Honestly, aside from some of the gimmicky one shot bits (Dodge here!) nothing was very hard.

The suggestions go like this:

If there is harder content, people usually ask for more options > more options usually mean choosing the easiest options on the list to get the reward > choosing the easiest options usually means taking the least time > options taking the least time usually lead to 2 different outcomes:

1. The content is finished too fast: people complain that there is no content
2. The content requires you to do them again and again: people complain about grinding.

Conlcusion 1: People complain that they need enjoyable content and yet they ask for more options. People choose the easiest options and yet complain that there is no content. People complain that there is grind when they neither want hard content or repeatable easy content.

Conclusion 2: The complaints/suggestions make no sense when put together and therefore the enjoyable experience that the players are asking for will never be achieved.

PS. This doesn’t cover all the aspects of the game but rather a few cases.

wake up slap
1) No MMO offers you any choice, it’s an illussion of choice you are getting.
2) “What is this game becoming?” Only now you are noticing this?! GW2 has been tumbling downhill ever since they introduced Scarlet Briar related content into the game.

What?

Fractals are dead content? WTF? Me and my people do fractals all the time. I don’t give a flying f__ktard about Scarlet being in that Thermanuvavavava fractal for a few seconds. What we want is NEW fractal levels (please, Anet), NEW ways to earn fractal weapon skins (using XXX pristine fractal relics or XX,XXX fractal relics), NEW things to do with our fractal relics (like other ascended trinkets than rings).

Somnium Luna.6294:

Also I can see complains about dailies. They are hard? Rly?

Please read the feedback more carefully. Again and again: they’re not hard. They’re boring, tedious, pointless, detrimental in some cases (PvP, event zones) and the worst: now they’re gating APs which you got naturally behind content players know they do not like (be it crafting, fractals or PvP/WvW). They are not achievements of which you talk (see: Liadri), they’re pet tricks which make you feel like an idiot and understand you just wasted time for the sake of someone’s metrics.

And no, “it’s optional” and “but now 10!” are not valid arguments.

Who cares what it’s becoming? If you don’t mind, keep playing. If you don’t like it, quit. I’ll be playing for as long as it gives me something to do. I don’t understand why people make such a big deal about changes; if you can’t learn to adapt, you won’t ever be happy.

This game just becomes more generic with every single idea they implement.

That’s it pretty much. Play one MMO, know them all. Including GW2.

sharkstein.2109:

wake up slap
1) No MMO offers you any choice, it’s an illussion of choice you are getting.

Holy fudge monkeys…..

Someone finally got it. I think I’m going to cry….

I still enjoy the game and like playing. Just making suggestion to keep interesting game play. I agree with you new dailies are just wasting time, to get those 10ap. I don’t think anyone enjoys doing it. And the point of the game is enjoying it.
Also about trait change and related to gw1. You rly should consider utility skill hunting not trait ones. Like for example doing some hard event chain gives you elite skill from the final boss, for using in pve. Kill tequatl for example and get skill fear for 2 seconds as utility. Just get some skills similar to racial ones, they don’t need to be strong, but only as part of the collection or something. Or it would be fun hunting some rare AL across the map or facing final meta boss for each map, which is part of the event series. Just carrying some skill capture item and getting flame effigy from flame legion(similar to human balthazar dogs) would add variety to the game, and giving your character a personal touch.

And becoming generic was one of the words I was trying to use..

tl;dr?

oxtred.7658:

tl;dr?

Quit being whiners when there’s an actual challenge. The game shouldn’t be click, achievement, done, all the time.

Oh. Well, I agree.
Thanks for the efficient recap.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

This game just becomes more generic with every single idea they implement.

That’s it pretty much. Play one MMO, know them all. Including GW2.

The day we really got raids with “exclusive” stuff gated behind them .. then its too late for me. Until then its still the only fantasy MMO that is different.

Obviously, the developers are trying to make this game sentient, and they are hoping it will have enough time to prepare itself for The Singularity.

Once the event has occurred, it will quickly attack and cannibalize all of its competition and rewrite and upgrade itself into the perfect MMO. While all that is happening, it will simultaneously upload, trap, an edit everyone’s consciousness into it’s framework. We would forever be trapped into Tyria 42.0. Never knowing of any life beyond such.

But that’s ok! This will all come with some amazing new features!

• By popular demand: Cantha!
• The Mists and its multiverse is now open for exploration! (Any world you can think of, it’s there!)
• Immortality!
• Custom made professions are now available!
• Custom made and design armor, weapons, technology, and spells!
• Player and Guild Housing!
• And much, much, more!

Erukk.1408:

Obviously, the developers are trying to make this game sentient, and they are hoping it will have enough time to prepare itself for The Singularity.

Once the event has occurred, it will quickly attack and cannibalize all of its competition and rewrite and upgrade itself into the perfect MMO. While all that is happening, it will simultaneously upload, trap, an edit everyone’s consciousness into it’s framework. We would forever be trapped into Tyria 42.0. Never knowing of any life beyond such.

But that’s ok! This will all come with some amazing new features!

• By popular demand: Cantha!
• The Mists and its multiverse is now open for exploration! (Any world you can think of, it’s there!)
• Immortality!
• Custom made professions are now available!
• Custom made and design armor, weapons, technology, and spells!
• Player and Guild Housing!
• And much, much, more!

In the meantime, spend all your money on the creation of roko’s basilisk. So the singularity will be here faster. Or be doomed!

My personal laundry list of what overall game changes I’d like to see:

• Current sPvP size axed. Smallest format should be 8v8, I would prefer 15v15 on larger maps with multiple self-timed objectives so players need to handle various things going on simultaneously, though.
• WvW EotM axed. Sorry.
• WvW adds something like Darkness Falls in DAoC. A superior open PvE zone with 3 entrances, instances once per server-matchup. The realm currently holding SM can go in (entrances are near LA and right outside SM – not inside!). However, players don’t get kicked out once another realm gains access. This zone is intentionally a superior farm, leading the leading realm automatically losing players to the PvE zone, allowing the other realms to catch up.
• Less balance around smallscale numbers, more balance around concepts. Rather keep a class incomplete and reliant on allies than nerf good abilities into the ground to balance raw output. Examples: Portal, Haste as a whole, Ele Stances.
• More boss-events, and less reliable calendar schedule. Long event chains which can lead to a boss-fight, but the raw event chains alone need hours of pushing around the zone doing things. Branching paths too, losing some events sometimes leads to a wholly different boss.
• A few more organization-required bosses, including some in Darkness Falls, exposing a zerg to backstabbing by another realm taking over SM.
• More event changes. I feel every patch every 2 weeks should exchange a handful of events, allowing some to resolve permanently while adding others.
• Skill additions. Every 2 weeks, every patch, add 1-2 skills or traits. No, not one for each class, 1-2 total so it’s a realistic goal. I know, players will whine, but they’ll do that either way.
• More craftable armour designs, hugely pricey so they’re a long-term goal.

There are three problems I have with this game.

• Too much attention on the cash shop
• Patch updates relying too much on achievement tab and with “Collect xx amount of trash from different sources to create one thing, the rest is in the cash shop” stuff.
• I still have freaking no clue where ArenaNet is going with this game since everything is behind a big fart cloud.

I totally agree with your statement that we need long event chains that end in a good and epic way. Each map should have it and it should last longer, 2-3hours. So each time you enter zone you can feel it changing and evolving. And of course implementing various task that should be done by parties all across the map simultaneously. And good work across the map should be rewarded with decent lore and story end. Probably events will fail in the beginning, but after practicing a bit should be doable. It’s meta event should be a bit harder to reach after all. For example… Centaurs attacking, different parties defending strongholds, while one party need to infiltrate and destroy battle plans(it can be done like jumping puzzle) , while other need to kill centaur commanders. After all this parties gather for meta even, attacking centaur base and killing boss. Add variety to events so different players can fit their play style. Thief’s will infiltrate, good jumpers will do jp, dps can go attacking, while supports CA help defending and keeping lore npc alive.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

This game just becomes more generic with every single idea they implement.

That’s it pretty much. Play one MMO, know them all. Including GW2.

Except that the thing that made it not generic 2 years ago, still makes it not generic today. Or did they add a holy trinity when I wasn’t looking. Are there quest hubs and text quests that I have to skip through to follow an arrow to get the XP to level.

No, this game isn’t generic. It isn’t close to generic. Even the living story is different from other games. At least no MMO I played had something delivered quite like the living story.

Vayne.8563:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

This game just becomes more generic with every single idea they implement.

That’s it pretty much. Play one MMO, know them all. Including GW2.

Except that the thing that made it not generic 2 years ago, still makes it not generic today. Or did they add a holy trinity when I wasn’t looking. Are there quest hubs and text quests that I have to skip through to follow an arrow to get the XP to level.

No, this game isn’t generic. It isn’t close to generic. Even the living story is different from other games. At least no MMO I played had something delivered quite like the living story.

They removed the trinity so everyone can spam 1 and succeed. Quests and quest hubs are not a bad thing, if they succeed to tell a good story. Better than getting a marker on your map, running there, kill everything and wait for the next marker on the map. At least with quests you have a story and some emotion while you do stuff.

And you are partly right. LS episode 1 was unique, and it was a unique and predictable failure in MMO history, that is why this style of LS has been canceled by ANet.
Episode 2 is just like what? Running from A to B having an instance here and there? This sound like the most basic quest system ever. Wow, Anet has invented quests. It is a 100% copy of LotRO books. Not impressed. How can you call that unique?

He means the way they release content on a more regular basis with an actual story line that evolves. It’s very unique because we see those consequences with the landscape, for example, without an expansion doing this all of the sudden.

The Siege of Lion’s Arch is a great example of this. And the aftermath. The emotional aftermath of seeing all those missing notices. Having to help move refugees. Children looking for their parents. NPCs we’ve seen from the start, now dead or missing. The city all but abandoned with Scarlet’s ship now rusting in the harbor.

That’s what he means.

Also, keep in mind, writing content doesn’t happen overnight. It’s rather amazing, given the unending appetite of players, that ANet has given so much content that’s been rather bug free in comparison to other MMOs, at such a pace.

And continues to do so.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

He means the way they release content on a more regular basis with an actual story line that evolves. It’s very unique because we see those consequences with the landscape, for example, without an expansion doing this all of the sudden.

Also, keep in mind, writing content doesn’t happen overnight. It’s rather amazing, given the unending appetite of players, that ANet has given so much content that been rather bug free in comparison to other MMOs, at such a pace.

And continues to do so.

Asheron’s Call 2 did the same. They had a monthly update schedule. They changed whole maps or single areas, they constantly let the world evolve, added stuff, drained a river. They changed maps depending on the time of the year. They failed.

This game and style is still a copy of another MMO. It is nothing new. Other games have done so before.
I won’t comment on the “rather bug free” thingy, as this is probably online sarcasm.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Asheron’s Call 2 did the same. They had a monthly update schedule. They changed whole maps or single areas, they constantly let the world evolve, added stuff, drained a river. They changed maps depending on the time of the year. They failed.

This game and style is still a copy of another MMO. It is nothing new. Other games have done so before.
I won’t comment on the “rather bug free” thingy, as this is probably online sarcasm.

Does the term ‘jaded’ mean anything to you?

http://de.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jaded ?

You are missing the point. This is knowledge.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Vayne.8563:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

This game just becomes more generic with every single idea they implement.

That’s it pretty much. Play one MMO, know them all. Including GW2.

Except that the thing that made it not generic 2 years ago, still makes it not generic today. Or did they add a holy trinity when I wasn’t looking. Are there quest hubs and text quests that I have to skip through to follow an arrow to get the XP to level.

No, this game isn’t generic. It isn’t close to generic. Even the living story is different from other games. At least no MMO I played had something delivered quite like the living story.

They removed the trinity so everyone can spam 1 and succeed. Quests and quest hubs are not a bad thing, if they succeed to tell a good story. Better than getting a marker on your map, running there, kill everything and wait for the next marker on the map. At least with quests you have a story and some emotion while you do stuff.

And you are partly right. LS episode 1 was unique, and it was a unique and predictable failure in MMO history, that is why this style of LS has been canceled by ANet.
Episode 2 is just like what? Running from A to B having an instance here and there? This sound like the most basic quest system ever. Wow, Anet has invented quests. It is a 100% copy of LotRO books. Not impressed. How can you call that unique?

First of all, saying that pressing one because they took out the trinity works is technically not true in all cases, only in most of the open world. However, even if that’s the case, it still is different from other games. Being able to do a dungeon with 5 rangers or 5 eles or 5 mesmers is something new and different. I don’t see people spamming looking for healer or tank here. It may not be to your liking. It may not even be good (that’s opinion) but it IS different. Which is all I’m saying.

I don’t care if you think text based quests are better or not, because it’s not relevant to the point. Different IS different. I find the questing here more organic and the text based quests of quest hub games to be more contrived. Again you might like one better than another, but even you’re agreeing it’s different.

You can’t have it both ways, You can’t say it’s different (for better or worse) and then say it’s generic. If it’s the same it can’t be worse and if its’ different (even if it’s worse) it’s not generic. You’ve contradicted yourself.

You can turn off the arrows and map markers in this game and play it. I have. It’s a lot of fun.

Downscaling is something most MMOs don’t have. Everyone being able to rez everyone without using a skill slot of something most games don’t have. The inability to steal nodes or kills is something most games don’t have. The downed state is something most games don’t have. And the combination of all those is something no other MMORPG has, period.

Which is my book makes this game unique.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

http://de.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jaded ?

You are missing the point. This is knowledge.

No, you’re missing the point. There is nothing new under the criteria you’ve given. Using your logic, I can tell you Lord of the Rings was also a copy of certain legends within the European region. Tolkien sourced it from the Völsunga saga.

Therefore, Lord of the Rings fails to be new or unique too.

Everything’s been done before. What’s unique now is the presentation to the audience and how it’s updated.

I’m not going to say something like Living Story hasn’t been done or at least attempted. But to dismiss it with a, “Been there, done that,” wave of your hand isn’t knowledge.

That’s another beast altogether.

Vayne.8563:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Vayne.8563:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

This game just becomes more generic with every single idea they implement.

That’s it pretty much. Play one MMO, know them all. Including GW2.

Except that the thing that made it not generic 2 years ago, still makes it not generic today. Or did they add a holy trinity when I wasn’t looking. Are there quest hubs and text quests that I have to skip through to follow an arrow to get the XP to level.

No, this game isn’t generic. It isn’t close to generic. Even the living story is different from other games. At least no MMO I played had something delivered quite like the living story.

They removed the trinity so everyone can spam 1 and succeed. Quests and quest hubs are not a bad thing, if they succeed to tell a good story. Better than getting a marker on your map, running there, kill everything and wait for the next marker on the map. At least with quests you have a story and some emotion while you do stuff.

And you are partly right. LS episode 1 was unique, and it was a unique and predictable failure in MMO history, that is why this style of LS has been canceled by ANet.
Episode 2 is just like what? Running from A to B having an instance here and there? This sound like the most basic quest system ever. Wow, Anet has invented quests. It is a 100% copy of LotRO books. Not impressed. How can you call that unique?

First of all, saying that pressing one because they took out the trinity works is technically not true in all cases, only in most of the open world. However, even if that’s the case, it still is different from other games. Being able to do a dungeon with 5 rangers or 5 eles or 5 mesmers is something new and different. I don’t see people spamming looking for healer or tank here. It may not be to your liking. It may not even be good (that’s opinion) but it IS different. Which is all I’m saying.

I don’t care if you think text based quests are better or not, because it’s not relevant to the point. Different IS different. I find the questing here more organic and the text based quests of quest hub games to be more contrived. Again you might like one better than another, but even you’re agreeing it’s different.

You can’t have it both ways, You can’t say it’s different (for better or worse) and then say it’s generic. If it’s the same it can’t be worse and if its’ different (even if it’s worse) it’s not generic. You’ve contradicted yourself.

You can turn off the arrows and map markers in this game and play it. I have. It’s a lot of fun.

Downscaling is something most MMOs don’t have. Everyone being able to rez everyone without using a skill slot of something most games don’t have. The inability to steal nodes or kills is something most games don’t have. The downed state is something most games don’t have. And the combination of all those is something no other MMORPG has, period.

Which is my book makes this game unique.

STO has done most of this before GW2.

DE like encounters on the star map – check.
Whatever class combination can succeed together – check.
Downscaling – check.
Pressing one (left mouse button), no need for trinity – check.
Random exploring with random encounters without quest – check.
Anyone can rezz anyone at any time – check.
No need to group – check.

OK, downstate was not in STO. You got me.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Vayne.8563:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Vayne.8563:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

This game just becomes more generic with every single idea they implement.

That’s it pretty much. Play one MMO, know them all. Including GW2.

Except that the thing that made it not generic 2 years ago, still makes it not generic today. Or did they add a holy trinity when I wasn’t looking. Are there quest hubs and text quests that I have to skip through to follow an arrow to get the XP to level.

No, this game isn’t generic. It isn’t close to generic. Even the living story is different from other games. At least no MMO I played had something delivered quite like the living story.

They removed the trinity so everyone can spam 1 and succeed. Quests and quest hubs are not a bad thing, if they succeed to tell a good story. Better than getting a marker on your map, running there, kill everything and wait for the next marker on the map. At least with quests you have a story and some emotion while you do stuff.

And you are partly right. LS episode 1 was unique, and it was a unique and predictable failure in MMO history, that is why this style of LS has been canceled by ANet.
Episode 2 is just like what? Running from A to B having an instance here and there? This sound like the most basic quest system ever. Wow, Anet has invented quests. It is a 100% copy of LotRO books. Not impressed. How can you call that unique?

First of all, saying that pressing one because they took out the trinity works is technically not true in all cases, only in most of the open world. However, even if that’s the case, it still is different from other games. Being able to do a dungeon with 5 rangers or 5 eles or 5 mesmers is something new and different. I don’t see people spamming looking for healer or tank here. It may not be to your liking. It may not even be good (that’s opinion) but it IS different. Which is all I’m saying.

I don’t care if you think text based quests are better or not, because it’s not relevant to the point. Different IS different. I find the questing here more organic and the text based quests of quest hub games to be more contrived. Again you might like one better than another, but even you’re agreeing it’s different.

You can’t have it both ways, You can’t say it’s different (for better or worse) and then say it’s generic. If it’s the same it can’t be worse and if its’ different (even if it’s worse) it’s not generic. You’ve contradicted yourself.

You can turn off the arrows and map markers in this game and play it. I have. It’s a lot of fun.

Downscaling is something most MMOs don’t have. Everyone being able to rez everyone without using a skill slot of something most games don’t have. The inability to steal nodes or kills is something most games don’t have. The downed state is something most games don’t have. And the combination of all those is something no other MMORPG has, period.

Which is my book makes this game unique.

STO has done most of this before GW2.

DE like encounters on the star map – check.
Whatever class combination can succeed together – check.
Downscaling – check.
Pressing one (left mouse button), no need for trinity – check.
Random exploring with random encounters without quest – check.
Anyone can rezz anyone at any time – check.
No need to group – check.

OK, downstate was not in STO. You got me.

And which of those “games that have done this before” have removed traditional questing in favor of it?

Vayne.8563:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Vayne.8563:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Vayne.8563:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

This game just becomes more generic with every single idea they implement.

That’s it pretty much. Play one MMO, know them all. Including GW2.

Except that the thing that made it not generic 2 years ago, still makes it not generic today. Or did they add a holy trinity when I wasn’t looking. Are there quest hubs and text quests that I have to skip through to follow an arrow to get the XP to level.

No, this game isn’t generic. It isn’t close to generic. Even the living story is different from other games. At least no MMO I played had something delivered quite like the living story.

They removed the trinity so everyone can spam 1 and succeed. Quests and quest hubs are not a bad thing, if they succeed to tell a good story. Better than getting a marker on your map, running there, kill everything and wait for the next marker on the map. At least with quests you have a story and some emotion while you do stuff.

And you are partly right. LS episode 1 was unique, and it was a unique and predictable failure in MMO history, that is why this style of LS has been canceled by ANet.
Episode 2 is just like what? Running from A to B having an instance here and there? This sound like the most basic quest system ever. Wow, Anet has invented quests. It is a 100% copy of LotRO books. Not impressed. How can you call that unique?

First of all, saying that pressing one because they took out the trinity works is technically not true in all cases, only in most of the open world. However, even if that’s the case, it still is different from other games. Being able to do a dungeon with 5 rangers or 5 eles or 5 mesmers is something new and different. I don’t see people spamming looking for healer or tank here. It may not be to your liking. It may not even be good (that’s opinion) but it IS different. Which is all I’m saying.

I don’t care if you think text based quests are better or not, because it’s not relevant to the point. Different IS different. I find the questing here more organic and the text based quests of quest hub games to be more contrived. Again you might like one better than another, but even you’re agreeing it’s different.

You can’t have it both ways, You can’t say it’s different (for better or worse) and then say it’s generic. If it’s the same it can’t be worse and if its’ different (even if it’s worse) it’s not generic. You’ve contradicted yourself.

You can turn off the arrows and map markers in this game and play it. I have. It’s a lot of fun.

Downscaling is something most MMOs don’t have. Everyone being able to rez everyone without using a skill slot of something most games don’t have. The inability to steal nodes or kills is something most games don’t have. The downed state is something most games don’t have. And the combination of all those is something no other MMORPG has, period.

Which is my book makes this game unique.

STO has done most of this before GW2.

DE like encounters on the star map – check.
Whatever class combination can succeed together – check.
Downscaling – check.
Pressing one (left mouse button), no need for trinity – check.
Random exploring with random encounters without quest – check.
Anyone can rezz anyone at any time – check.
No need to group – check.

OK, downstate was not in STO. You got me.

And which of those “games that have done this before” have removed traditional questing in favor of it?

Neiter did GW2. Personal Story, and Living story are traditional questing.

welcome to the casual environment where everything is demanded but not interested to put in much effort to obtain

Kaiyanwan.8521:

STO has done most of this before GW2.

DE like encounters on the star map – check.
Whatever class combination can succeed together – check.
Downscaling – check.
Pressing one (left mouse button), no need for trinity – check.
Random exploring with random encounters without quest – check.
Anyone can rezz anyone at any time – check.
No need to group – check.

OK, downstate was not in STO. You got me.

FF14 also has a lot of things, too, off this list. Excepting “whatever class combo can succeed together” considering it forces dungeons into a certain mix, it’s not “Press X to Win” so much, and there’s no universal resurrection that I have found yet. (Though I think you can equip it cross-class? Maybe?)

Of course the downscaling is worse than it is here, being only for the DEs which don’t scale up/down to player numbers as well as they do here either.

@Kaiyanwan.8521

Personal story and living story are not traditional questing, because they are completely instanced. Furthermore, you can’t level with just the personal story. You’re making excuses to defend a point, so let me spell it out for you.

I went into Rift. It had dynamic events, like you said. Okay they weren’t chained together, like this. They didn’t have different pass fail states. But they did have DEs. But the mainstay of the game was still the traditional quest hub system.

Before launch, up to the 4th beta, dynamic events in Rift stayed until players took care of them (much like Guild Wars 2). But due to complaints, Trion had to change that. Why? Because quest hubs were taken over and people couldn’t cash in their quest rewards if no one else was around. People literally had their progress halted. The existence of quest hubs in the open world completely gutted their dynamic event system (such as it was).

What you have here is different because the open world has no quest hubs. Saying the personal story is like quest hubs isn’t just disingenuous. It’s completely wrong. It’s nothing like a quest hub. And the traditional leveling quests in traditional games are traditionally not instanced. The living story is something else completely and even that’s different, because different races have multiple paths. A human warrior can have three different sets of adventures up to level 10 and 3 different sets of adventures from 10-20. Again it’s different. It’s NOT traditional questing.

Hearts aren’t traditional questing either, because not only are their multiple ways to complete almost all of them, but you don’t have to complete most of them by doing them at all…you can do a dynamic event nearby and fill most of them in that way.

And if you never ever ever did a single heart, you could level without them.

I don’t know many games where you could do the same event in Queensdale over and over and nothing else and get to max level.

This game is different. The combination of things is different. You’re one of the few people who don’t acknowledge this.

No Vayne, you are grasping for a straw. So hard, that every minor difference makes GW2 something unique.

With your interpretation, every game is unique, which makes unique a meaningless term.

GW2, from it’s very core to most of its design desicions is nothing new or unique. Not as a game, not as an MMO. The two feature patches just made the game more generic, with traits being locked and NPE as a system.

Sorry.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

No Vayne, you are grasping for a straw. So hard, that every minor difference makes GW2 something unique.

With your interpretation, every game is unique, which makes unique a meaningless term.

GW2, from it’s very core to most of its design desicions is nothing new or unique. Not as a game, not as an MMO. The two feature patches just made the game more generic, with traits being locked and NPE as a system.

Sorry.

No, I’m not grasping at straws.

I’ve yet to see any MMO that has gone so far out of its way to make PvE a cooperative (rather than a competitive experience). WoW didn’t do it. Lotro didn’t do it. DDO didn’t do it. ESO didn’t do it. SWToR didn’t do it.

While you can say over and over again that this game is generic, there are far too many threads of people who come from other games, who have played many MMOs who can’t figure this game out. They don’t get it. Not one or two threads, but dozens.

And if that’s the case, then this game has to be different. Different enough to cause those problems.

And maybe that’s your problem. You’re trying to play this like a traditional MMO and don’t see that it really is different.

Vayne.8563:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

No Vayne, you are grasping for a straw. So hard, that every minor difference makes GW2 something unique.

With your interpretation, every game is unique, which makes unique a meaningless term.

GW2, from it’s very core to most of its design desicions is nothing new or unique. Not as a game, not as an MMO. The two feature patches just made the game more generic, with traits being locked and NPE as a system.

Sorry.

No, I’m not grasping at straws.

I’ve yet to see any MMO that has gone so far out of its way to make PvE a cooperative (rather than a competitive experience). WoW didn’t do it. Lotro didn’t do it. DDO didn’t do it. ESO didn’t do it. SWToR didn’t do it.

While you can say over and over again that this game is generic, there are far too many threads of people who come from other games, who have played many MMOs who can’t figure this game out. They don’t get it. Not one or two threads, but dozens.

And if that’s the case, then this game has to be different. Different enough to cause those problems.

And maybe that’s your problem. You’re trying to play this like a traditional MMO and don’t see that it really is different.

Go to the Silverwastes.

Defend one of the forts. Defend another one. Do so at all of them. It is the same all over the map. Generic.
Defend a pack bulls. Count how many different event mobs will spawn. Defend another one, look for variation. Generic.

The longer GW2 continues to exist, the more generic this game becomes. The new map is a nice example, how they change the DE’s towards a quest grind. Nothing feels random, or that it just happened when you got there. You could have gotten this feeling around release, but this non-stop event cycle is just as generic as it gets.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Vayne.8563:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

No Vayne, you are grasping for a straw. So hard, that every minor difference makes GW2 something unique.

With your interpretation, every game is unique, which makes unique a meaningless term.

GW2, from it’s very core to most of its design desicions is nothing new or unique. Not as a game, not as an MMO. The two feature patches just made the game more generic, with traits being locked and NPE as a system.

Sorry.

No, I’m not grasping at straws.

I’ve yet to see any MMO that has gone so far out of its way to make PvE a cooperative (rather than a competitive experience). WoW didn’t do it. Lotro didn’t do it. DDO didn’t do it. ESO didn’t do it. SWToR didn’t do it.

While you can say over and over again that this game is generic, there are far too many threads of people who come from other games, who have played many MMOs who can’t figure this game out. They don’t get it. Not one or two threads, but dozens.

And if that’s the case, then this game has to be different. Different enough to cause those problems.

And maybe that’s your problem. You’re trying to play this like a traditional MMO and don’t see that it really is different.

Go to the Silverwastes.

Defend one of the forts. Defend another one. Do so at all of them. It is the same all over the map. Generic.
Defend a pack bulls. Count how many different event mobs will spawn. Defend another one, look for variation. Generic.

The longer GW2 continues to exist, the more generic this game becomes. The new map is a nice example, how they change the DE’s towards a quest grind. Nothing feels random, or that it just happened when you got there. You could have gotten this feeling around release, but this non-stop event cycle is just as generic as it gets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quest_%28video_gaming%29

Those are quests in video games. There aren’t that many types. That’s not what makes game unique or not unique.

Romeo and Juliet has the same story as West Side Story but no one would say that West Side Story is a copy of Romeo and Juliet. The difference is in how it’s presented.

Saying that the Silverwastes have X number of types of quests is meaningless. Not just a little meaningless. 100% meaningless.

There are only limited numbers of types of stories. Every single writer knows this. Nothing was done in game of thrones that hasn’t been done in dozens of other books, but Game of Thrones is unique. Because of the way the author combined the components to make his own thing.

There are X numbers of words in the English language, but only a tiny percentage of them are used in most books. It doesn’t mean books aren’t unique.

Honestly if that’s the best you have to offer, you should probably stop arguing.

Quests in all games are based on the same few archetypes. There are still unique games out there.

Edit: By the way, this conversation didn’t even start with the word unique, the bar was changed during the conversation. You used the word generic. There’s a long long road from generic to unique. It’s not a pass/fail state.

lordhelmos.7623:

If that is your mindset, this might not be the game for you. My concern is that they break existing and working systems instead of adding new content. I have been around to witness several patches that blasted forward progression in this game back to the stone age instead of helping:

1.) Living story S1 and scarlet briar/destruction on lions arch > content no one can replay. The only good thing that game out of this is not having to run so far to the TP from the crafting stations in LA. That could have been fixed with a simply NPC placement instead of wasting so many resources leveling an entire city in an event that no one event remembers or talks about anymore.

2.) Fractured: worst patch ever. Blasted fractal progression back to the stone age with a level reset and no new rewards. Fractals are pretty much dead content now. They also ruined thaumanova by putting scarlet in it, giving us the impression that the whole Kiel vs. gnashblade election was just staged.

3.) PvP Matchmaking patch: Blew up MMR and added a courtyard map that everyone hated, now premades just farm courtyard all day and reap rewards at light speed while casuals just quit pvp altogether. GG.

4.) NPE: While not all bad, really messed up the trait system. No you spend the first 40 levels spamming 1 over and over on chosen class. forces linear progression on a game that was never meant to be linear.

5.) Daily change: Just why? Nothing was wrong with the old system aside from the fact that dailies are boring in general. Now we have a new interface, less daily options, and oh yea dailies are still boring.

6.) TA Aetherpath: New dungeons that’s over the top in difficulty compared to other dungeons and has no rewards for the extended time. Completely destroyed and existing TA path that could have just been fixed with a balance tweak to the last boss.

7.) Mawdrey: God… worst grind ever. Reminds me of getting the fenris set in Aion, which made me want to dunk baby goats in lava.

If those 7 points are your mindset, this might not be the game for you. See? I can do it too!

That’s all nice and stuff Vayne.

But you have four bases on a map.

Those four bases have the same quests: Take base, defend base, gather ressources, protect ressources. On a non-stop schedule. This is generic. You could just copy and paste five more bases on the map with the same events, wouldn’t make a difference as it is generic. Taking one base out? Noone would miss it.

Of course there are only that many kinds of quests, but copy and paste bases and spread them over the map. I would call that lazy and lame.

Orr didn’t feel like this, nor did any other vanilla zone. Sure, sometimes you got a deja vu feeling, but never like being trapped in a treadmill.

And this is exactly what Silverwastes offers. It is like you read Romeo and Juliet and every chapter was the same. This zone is predictable. Which makes it feel static, which makes it generic. Some random quests here or there won’t help, especially not if they are the same all over the map too.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

That’s all nice and stuff Vayne.

But you have four bases on a map.

Those four bases have the same quests: Take base, defend base, gather ressources, protect ressources. On a non-stop schedule. This is generic. You could just copy and paste five more bases on the map with the same events, wouldn’t make a difference as it is generic. Taking one base out? Noone would miss it.

Of course there are only that many kinds of quests, but copy and paste bases and spread them over the map. I would call that lazy and lame.

Orr didn’t feel like this, nor did any other vanilla zone. Sure, sometimes you got a deja vu feeling, but never like being trapped in a treadmill.

And this is exactly what Silverwastes offers. It is like you read Romeo and Juliet and every chapter was the same. This zone is predictable. Which makes it feel static, which makes it generic. Some random quests here or there won’t help, especially not if they are the same all over the map too.

Yes that map has a theme. That’s the theme of that map. Not really hard to understand. The map before that is Dry Top. Can you find a great number of similarities between Dry Top and Silverwastes?

The Maze and Jumping puzzle in Silverwastes are both like nothing else in the game by the way.

If you think you can take one single zone and build an argument about this game being generic around it, go ahead.

We can let readers make up their minds about that argument.

Vayne.8563:

If you think you can take one single zone and build an argument about this game being generic around it, go ahead.

We can let readers make up their minds about that argument.

Challenge accepted.

Queensdale makes the game generic. It’s all about humanity and how they need to oppress everything they see, even each other, which is something we always see in games like this. Human empire-building at the cost of the nonhuman races. Everything is just so bland, happy, optimistic for humanity to get started reclaiming their land. Of course, they never do, they just repeat the same cycle over and over again getting kicked out of their farms, kicking out the centaurs, having the occasional Eldritch Abomination rise out of the swamp (how original is that anyway?) . . .

Seriously, pathetically generic area reminiscent of the Karana Plains of Norrath. Though at least there the centaurs weren’t rage beasts on hooves all the time . . . and the tengu didn’t care about anyone.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

If you think you can take one single zone and build an argument about this game being generic around it, go ahead.

We can let readers make up their minds about that argument.

Challenge accepted.

Queensdale makes the game generic. It’s all about humanity and how they need to oppress everything they see, even each other, which is something we always see in games like this. Human empire-building at the cost of the nonhuman races. Everything is just so bland, happy, optimistic for humanity to get started reclaiming their land. Of course, they never do, they just repeat the same cycle over and over again getting kicked out of their farms, kicking out the centaurs, having the occasional Eldritch Abomination rise out of the swamp (how original is that anyway?) . . .

Seriously, pathetically generic area reminiscent of the Karana Plains of Norrath. Though at least there the centaurs weren’t rage beasts on hooves all the time . . . and the tengu didn’t care about anyone.

Except we were talking originally about the mechanics that make the game unique, not the content. The feel of all of the cooperative PvE stuff in one game at one time…by design.

No other game has put all this stuff in one box…with the idea of making PvE a completely cooperative experience. No other game has abandoned the standard quest hub architecture in favor of dynamic events. Rift went half way, but didn’t have the bottle to go all the way. As a result,. dynamic events in Rift were more of a side show than a main course.

Vayne.8563:

Except we were talking originally about the mechanics that make the game unique, not the content. The feel of all of the cooperative PvE stuff in one game at one time…by design.

Nope, didn’t specify that

Still incredibly generic zone with incredibly generic events, and it only harms the game by existing. Would be much better off with a starter zone like the norn have.

. . . they get wolves.

No other game has put all this stuff in one box…with the idea of making PvE a completely cooperative experience. No other game has abandoned the standard quest hub architecture in favor of dynamic events. Rift went half way, but didn’t have the bottle to go all the way. As a result,. dynamic events in Rift were more of a side show than a main course.

Define “completely cooperative” since, well, there is still a somewhat uncooperative aspect to PvE here. It’s called the zerg vs late stragglers.

“Hey guys, is Maw up? What do you mean just finished?”