Guild Wars 2

I always wondered why do the weapon types unlocked by the elite trees have to be locked to them. Would it not be possible, in the example of Revenant to play a Herald, but use the new bow? I really adore a lot of the new abilities, but I honestly am annoyed when a particular weapon I like to use is locked into an elite.

So I was just curious does anyone else feel this way? Do you think that once you spend the points to unlock a weapon you should be able to use it regardless of what elite form you use? Let me know! I would love to hear how everyone else feels.

Would grant indeed more builds and possibilities…
…daredevil build with rifle could be worth a shot.

Its an important reason i never bothered with HoT’s Elite Specs, that the new weapon was tied to it.

If this is repeated in PoF, i wont try PoF’s Elite Specs either.
If i decide to get PoF anyway.

Shirlias.8104:

…daredevil build with rifle could be worth a shot.

bada bing, bada boom

I think it’s better for overall game balance if choices matter more: limiting us to one elite (with one extra weapon) is easier for many players, easier for the balance team, and (for me) makes things more interesting.

I think it would take away some of the uniqueness of the elite spec, altho I wont deny it would probably encourage me to try other elites more. I’m interested in Scourge for example, but don’t want to drop my greatsword.

I think the system works well as it is though

What i want is the new weapon not tied to the new Elite Spec, with the Elite Spec having traits that benefits the new weapon.
So, using the new weapon with the new Elite Spec would be preferred but not mandatory.

There’s gotta be some reason to use the spec now guys, this whole have cake and eating mentality needs to go.

dagrdagaz.4913:

What i want is the new weapon not tied to the new Elite Spec, with the Elite Spec having traits that benefits the new weapon.
So, using the new weapon with the new Elite Spec would be preferred but not mandatory.

I agree, I hate the fact that certain weapons are locked behind elite specs, I would prefer more freedom in the builds I create.

Never ending topic about how the game continues to be GATED!

There is more than enough FREEDOM to build Profession, but it’s still never enough for some folks.

GW2 has more FREEDOM in builds compared to many MMORPGs out in the market.

We are lucky we do not have skill trees forcing you to follow one path.

after maxing out the elite spec if the weapon could be used with other specs that would be cool.

on the other hand could cause problems with future elite specs and weapon swapping.

Rhanoa.3960:

Never ending topic about how the game continues to be GATED!

There is more than enough FREEDOM to build Profession, but it’s still never enough for some folks.

GW2 has more FREEDOM in builds compared to many MMORPGs out in the market.

We are lucky we do not have skill trees forcing you to follow one path.

We do basically have skill trees though. The only difference is you get to change them whenever you want. The problem is: not being able to mix&match like you can with a lot of “skill tree style games.”

I’m fine with not being able to use more than one elite spec at a time, but the lack of freedom to create builds has always been GW2’s weakness. GW1 had hundreds of skills to choose from, any profession could wield any weapon, any profession could choose any other profession as their secondary.

GW2 is severely lacking in build diversity. Part of it is the cancerous “meta” cooked up by tryhards who like to squeeze every bit of efficiency out of everything. The vast majority of it is Anet’s implementation of skills, traits, and specializations.

In GW1, I could make my necromancer into a very viable healer. I could give my ranger a hammer and spam knockdown combos with my pet. I could load up my mesmer with fast casting fire magic spells. Can’t do any of that in GW2. I will admit, they are fundamentally different games, but if Anet really wants to expand diversity with the implementation of elite specs, they either need to balance them better against one another, or allow us to mix&match their weapons/utility skills.

I prefer it the way it’s been done, with Elite specs coming as a “kit”.

Quarktastic.1027:

Rhanoa.3960:

Never ending topic about how the game continues to be GATED!

There is more than enough FREEDOM to build Profession, but it’s still never enough for some folks.

GW2 has more FREEDOM in builds compared to many MMORPGs out in the market.

We are lucky we do not have skill trees forcing you to follow one path.

We do basically have skill trees though. The only difference is you get to change them whenever you want. The problem is: not being able to mix&match like you can with a lot of “skill tree style games.”

I’m fine with not being able to use more than one elite spec at a time, but the lack of freedom to create builds has always been GW2’s weakness. GW1 had hundreds of skills to choose from, any profession could wield any weapon, any profession could choose any other profession as their secondary.

GW2 is severely lacking in build diversity. Part of it is the cancerous “meta” cooked up by tryhards who like to squeeze every bit of efficiency out of everything. The vast majority of it is Anet’s implementation of skills, traits, and specializations.

In GW1, I could make my necromancer into a very viable healer. I could give my ranger a hammer and spam knockdown combos with my pet. I could load up my mesmer with fast casting fire magic spells. Can’t do any of that in GW2. I will admit, they are fundamentally different games, but if Anet really wants to expand diversity with the implementation of elite specs, they either need to balance them better against one another, or allow us to mix&match their weapons/utility skills.

Without a doubt GW1 has a lot of depth.
GW1 is a Lobby Game, Instanced gameplay not a Shared World!
It was always a CORPG, but someone decided to roll lobby games into a MMORPG one day.

Like Illconceived, I believe that having to make choices makes for a better game. One of the problems with the specs that came out of HoT was that one had to give up too little to gain a lot. This may not seem a problem to players who don’t want limitations, but it is a problem for the game, for the balance team, for anyone who is engaged in competitive play in PvP or WvW, and possibly for profession diversity in harder, instanced PvE meta play. So, yes, I like that there are restrictions.

Can see both sides of the coin. I understand the benefits of locking the weapon to the Spez, but on the other hand I do absolutely hate making a new character and level with other weapons until I can play with the weapon I want to.

Personally would prefer to de-couple the weapons from the spez, but as someone else said, keep all the benefits/traits for the weapons locked up into the Spez traitline.

(Some examples that I’ve noticed: Wanted to start a new thief for fun, and level with staff because I like the weapon. Would love to try a Revenant with both Shield and Shortbow sometime, etc)

As an Elementalist player I would love to play sword and war horn and have the overloads, shouts and elemental mixing, mantras locked to their specialization.

The character progression that came with the introduction of Elite Specializations needs to get upgraded and expanded, to feel more like a classical Sub Class System, which at first introduces for each Class Elite Specializations – yes – but shouldn’t stop from this moment on completely by letting it be with that.

Elite Specializations need to be merged into the Mastery System.
The moment you have learned an Elite Specialization by having learned all Skills and Traits for it and having done the achievement of earning the Ascended Weapon of said Elite Specialöization that is used as the symbol of being ready to progress further and to truthfully “master” your Elite-Specialization will lead to the unlocking of a Elite-Specialization’s “Mastery Line”

Each Mastery Line of an Elite Specialization contains the exact same amount of “Trials” you have to master to unlock the various parts of the mastery line one after another, so that you can start activating them to gain experience on them, until you can master them with the usage of Mastery Points.

Example: Mastery of the Arts as Daredevil

1. Trial unlocks the Mastery Line, that once mastered, it unlocks the Elite Specialization’s unique Weapon for your Core Class of your Character

2. Trial unlocks the Mastery Line, that once mastered, unlocks the E-Spec’s Healing Skill for the Core Class to use as well.

3. Trial unlocks the Mastery Line, that once mastered, unlocks the Utility Skills of the E-Spec for your Core Class to use as well.

4. Trial unlocks the Mastery Line, that once mastered, unlocks the Elite Skill of the E-Spec for your Core Class to use as well.

The only thing that can’t be unlocked for Core Class to use, are the Elite Spec’s Traits.
If you want to use those and the E-Specs unique gameplay mechanics, then you have to play as actually the Elite Specialization.

This system would increase build diversity, it would soften the restrictions of what kind of weapon can be used by your character, so that you could be come able also to use the specialization weapons by your core class, when you truly have mastered first your Elite Specialization by fullfilling the Trials required to master your Elite Specialization.

Its a difference still, if you just only have LEARNED something, or if you have MASTERED something that you have LEARNED BEFORE.

Anet completely missed the part to make Elite Specializations part of the mastery System as well, because only when both systems would get merged, then you can receive this way the feeling of having mastered what you have learned and receiving therefore as reward the privilege to use most of the Specializations mechanics and weapons also as well as the Core Class from which the Specialization originated from, because its just false to assume, that only a specialization should be able to use, what the specialization uses, because if there wouldn’t have been the origin of the specialization first, then the specialization wouldn’t exist.

Its just impossible that a specialization should be able to do something, what the core class cant do as well, because the core class has to be able to do it as well to be able to specialize on those things and focus on the basics into which you try to specialize.
Its just a closed logic circle.
However, one needs to understand, that for keeping E-Specs somehow also unique, there needs to be something, that truly only the E-Specs have and that thing – are the traits and the unique gameplay mechanics, like shroud types of the Necromancer, as they are, what defines a character between the Core Class and beign the Specialization, giving the player a different gameplay feeling while playing the Character.

However, the Weapon Type, the Healing and Utility Skills aren’t part of that what defines an Elite Specialization, they are Character progression and as such should be mastered by the Core Class to gain permanent access to them as well.

Thats how I do see this. Elite Specs and Mastery System need to get merged for the ultimate Character Progression

PS: and to get those 4 trials, each Class/Character has to find somewhere in the world of Tyria 4 Grandmasters, 4 unique persons, which take you as their pupils so that they can teach you their secrets, until they put you under their trials to prove them, that you are worthy of their wisdom, by havign to defeat them in duels , using everything that you have learned by them, that they have tested from you to surpass on your course to truly mastery your Elite Specialization, so that they can call you with pride in their chests an Elite of your Class.

I have mixed feelings.

On the one hand I understand that limiting in this fashion creates meaningful choices with tradeoffs while, potentially, mitigating a balancing nightmare to some extent, but I also feel that its a bummer to tie a weapon’s aesthetic appeal to a variant playstyle. Someone who loves the concept of a ranger with a dagger might not want a beast focus to their playstyle.

Orpheal.8263:

The character progression that came with the introduction of Elite Specializations needs to get upgraded and expanded, to feel more like a classical Sub Class System, which at first introduces for each Class Elite Specializations – yes – but shouldn’t stop from this moment on completely by letting it be with that.

Elite Specializations need to be merged into the Mastery System.
The moment you have learned an Elite Specialization by having learned all Skills and Traits for it and having done the achievement of earning the Ascended Weapon of said Elite Specialöization that is used as the symbol of being ready to progress further and to truthfully “master” your Elite-Specialization will lead to the unlocking of a Elite-Specialization’s “Mastery Line”

Each Mastery Line of an Elite Specialization contains the exact same amount of “Trials” you have to master to unlock the various parts of the mastery line one after another, so that you can start activating them to gain experience on them, until you can master them with the usage of Mastery Points.

Example: Mastery of the Arts as Daredevil

1. Trial unlocks the Mastery Line, that once mastered, it unlocks the Elite Specialization’s unique Weapon for your Core Class of your Character

2. Trial unlocks the Mastery Line, that once mastered, unlocks the E-Spec’s Healing Skill for the Core Class to use as well.

3. Trial unlocks the Mastery Line, that once mastered, unlocks the Utility Skills of the E-Spec for your Core Class to use as well.

4. Trial unlocks the Mastery Line, that once mastered, unlocks the Elite Skill of the E-Spec for your Core Class to use as well.

The only thing that can’t be unlocked for Core Class to use, are the Elite Spec’s Traits.
If you want to use those and the E-Specs unique gameplay mechanics, then you have to play as actually the Elite Specialization.

This system would increase build diversity, it would soften the restrictions of what kind of weapon can be used by your character, so that you could be come able also to use the specialization weapons by your core class, when you truly have mastered first your Elite Specialization by fullfilling the Trials required to master your Elite Specialization.

Its a difference still, if you just only have LEARNED something, or if you have MASTERED something that you have LEARNED BEFORE.

Anet completely missed the part to make Elite Specializations part of the mastery System as well, because only when both systems would get merged, then you can receive this way the feeling of having mastered what you have learned and receiving therefore as reward the privilege to use most of the Specializations mechanics and weapons also as well as the Core Class from which the Specialization originated from, because its just false to assume, that only a specialization should be able to use, what the specialization uses, because if there wouldn’t have been the origin of the specialization first, then the specialization wouldn’t exist.

Its just impossible that a specialization should be able to do something, what the core class cant do as well, because the core class has to be able to do it as well to be able to specialize on those things and focus on the basics into which you try to specialize.
Its just a closed logic circle.
However, one needs to understand, that for keeping E-Specs somehow also unique, there needs to be something, that truly only the E-Specs have and that thing – are the traits and the unique gameplay mechanics, like shroud types of the Necromancer, as they are, what defines a character between the Core Class and beign the Specialization, giving the player a different gameplay feeling while playing the Character.

However, the Weapon Type, the Healing and Utility Skills aren’t part of that what defines an Elite Specialization, they are Character progression and as such should be mastered by the Core Class to gain permanent access to them as well.

Thats how I do see this. Elite Specs and Mastery System need to get merged for the ultimate Character Progression

PS: and to get those 4 trials, each Class/Character has to find somewhere in the world of Tyria 4 Grandmasters, 4 unique persons, which take you as their pupils so that they can teach you their secrets, until they put you under their trials to prove them, that you are worthy of their wisdom, by havign to defeat them in duels , using everything that you have learned by them, that they have tested from you to surpass on your course to truly mastery your Elite Specialization, so that they can call you with pride in their chests an Elite of your Class.

^^THIS!!!
I can’t describe how do I like your ideas!
This should be in first place in the Suggestions section as well.
As for final part – being a pupil of Grandmasters – that’s so similar how I had imagined learning new skills from the beginning of GW2 (I have even dreamed of possibility learning alternate skills for weapons in such way).
It is a pity they went with generic “gather some abstract points (what’s that?) then spend them to unlock everything”.

Rhanoa.3960:

Never ending topic about how the game continues to be GATED!

There is more than enough FREEDOM to build Profession, but it’s still never enough for some folks.

GW2 has more FREEDOM in builds compared to many MMORPGs out in the market.

We are lucky we do not have skill trees forcing you to follow one path.

Especially engi: 2 main hand weapons; pistol, riffle (100% of crappiness)… we all sink in builds yeah :’)

Weapons tied to elite spec is like the most stupid thing they could do, and they will not want to fix it because it will force them to make few more (#3) skills for weaver XD

“Oh no I forget how to use weapon because I changed my specialisation”
“I used to be a tempest but then I took sword in the knee, and cant warhorn anymore”
“There were times, I used to know how to use shield”
From logical site, it’s completely irrational to bind weapon to spec, how could you explain it in some kind of a ‘lore’

I think it makes sense. My only complaint is that there’s so much stuff tied to elite specs that it kind of messes with the whole system of trait/skill unlocks.

I actually think they screwed up in combining skill and trait unlocks under the “hero point” umbrella. It worked better when they were separate, since skills and traits really shouldn’t be in competition with one another; they are separate systems that complement each other, so they should have individualized progression.

Thank you for the support Mervinas.

Yeah, I think character progression is something, where we need also to look over the plate rim, because if you want to show in a game like GW2 good thought out character progression, then you can#t simply do everythign always by yourself.
Somewhen is also for everybody the point reached, when you need to receive soem kind of reflection from an other perspective, than your own view, to get to see, where and how you can improve yourself or how you can learn, and especially master, something new, which truly makes you better.

And thats exactly where Grandmasters come into play, they can serve as the angle of view, which reflects upon you from a different perspective. Not about how you as a character see yourself, but how you get seen by someone else’s view, and how that person that has more wisdom and life experience, than you reflects your personality, your behaviors on how you acted in certain situations ect. to decide ove you, if you are truly of what you want to be/become, if you have, what it needs to be called truly an Elite of your Class.

Its just part of traditional rpgs, that you can’t learn everything by yourself, that you find also masters of your professions, which teach you things.

Anet had that basicalyl already in GW1, and completely missed to add this kind of character progression into GW2 too.
In GW1 we learned our skilsl from masters of our professions, which teached ous their wisdom – yes by a cheap way of typical – do quest x for me and get skills as reward but this simple exampel shows just, in which kind of immersive way Anet could do it here better with GW2 by merging E-Specs as a system into the mastery system and addign grandmasters into the game, which work as the final part of our character progression so that we truly get the feeling at the end, that we mastered our class by defeatign them in a final trial that expects from us to use absultely everything we have learned over the course of the game how to play our class ect. to the fullest, so that defeatign these grandmasters is equal of beign proof, that you are as player worth it to be called Elite of your Class.

Orpheal,
the problem with implementation of your suggestions, as I see it, is the need of more creative minds and many more time spent to design places, NPCs, interactions and stories.
But that would pay off in a grand way – by giving players truly immersive world.
Wasn’t this their goal by creating Guildwars 2?
Good wishes, but process had stuck somewhere.
But we have bunny ears, all kinds of strange backpacks and other visual mess instead!

Rong.5470:

Rhanoa.3960:

Never ending topic about how the game continues to be GATED!

There is more than enough FREEDOM to build Profession, but it’s still never enough for some folks.

GW2 has more FREEDOM in builds compared to many MMORPGs out in the market.

We are lucky we do not have skill trees forcing you to follow one path.

Especially engi: 2 main hand weapons; pistol, riffle (100% of crappiness)… we all sink in builds yeah :’)

Weapons tied to elite spec is like the most stupid thing they could do, and they will not want to fix it because it will force them to make few more (#3) skills for weaver XD

“Oh no I forget how to use weapon because I changed my specialisation”
“I used to be a tempest but then I took sword in the knee, and cant warhorn anymore”
“There were times, I used to know how to use shield”
From logical site, it’s completely irrational to bind weapon to spec, how could you explain it in some kind of a ‘lore’

Yeah, it’s so stupid folks are still playing the game as intended.

Mervinas.9482:

Orpheal.8263:

The character progression that came with the introduction of Elite Specializations needs to get upgraded and expanded, to feel more like a classical Sub Class System, which at first introduces for each Class Elite Specializations – yes – but shouldn’t stop from this moment on completely by letting it be with that.

Elite Specializations need to be merged into the Mastery System.
The moment you have learned an Elite Specialization by having learned all Skills and Traits for it and having done the achievement of earning the Ascended Weapon of said Elite Specialöization that is used as the symbol of being ready to progress further and to truthfully “master” your Elite-Specialization will lead to the unlocking of a Elite-Specialization’s “Mastery Line”

Each Mastery Line of an Elite Specialization contains the exact same amount of “Trials” you have to master to unlock the various parts of the mastery line one after another, so that you can start activating them to gain experience on them, until you can master them with the usage of Mastery Points.

Example: Mastery of the Arts as Daredevil

1. Trial unlocks the Mastery Line, that once mastered, it unlocks the Elite Specialization’s unique Weapon for your Core Class of your Character

2. Trial unlocks the Mastery Line, that once mastered, unlocks the E-Spec’s Healing Skill for the Core Class to use as well.

3. Trial unlocks the Mastery Line, that once mastered, unlocks the Utility Skills of the E-Spec for your Core Class to use as well.

4. Trial unlocks the Mastery Line, that once mastered, unlocks the Elite Skill of the E-Spec for your Core Class to use as well.

The only thing that can’t be unlocked for Core Class to use, are the Elite Spec’s Traits.
If you want to use those and the E-Specs unique gameplay mechanics, then you have to play as actually the Elite Specialization.

This system would increase build diversity, it would soften the restrictions of what kind of weapon can be used by your character, so that you could be come able also to use the specialization weapons by your core class, when you truly have mastered first your Elite Specialization by fullfilling the Trials required to master your Elite Specialization.

Its a difference still, if you just only have LEARNED something, or if you have MASTERED something that you have LEARNED BEFORE.

Anet completely missed the part to make Elite Specializations part of the mastery System as well, because only when both systems would get merged, then you can receive this way the feeling of having mastered what you have learned and receiving therefore as reward the privilege to use most of the Specializations mechanics and weapons also as well as the Core Class from which the Specialization originated from, because its just false to assume, that only a specialization should be able to use, what the specialization uses, because if there wouldn’t have been the origin of the specialization first, then the specialization wouldn’t exist.

Its just impossible that a specialization should be able to do something, what the core class cant do as well, because the core class has to be able to do it as well to be able to specialize on those things and focus on the basics into which you try to specialize.
Its just a closed logic circle.
However, one needs to understand, that for keeping E-Specs somehow also unique, there needs to be something, that truly only the E-Specs have and that thing – are the traits and the unique gameplay mechanics, like shroud types of the Necromancer, as they are, what defines a character between the Core Class and beign the Specialization, giving the player a different gameplay feeling while playing the Character.

However, the Weapon Type, the Healing and Utility Skills aren’t part of that what defines an Elite Specialization, they are Character progression and as such should be mastered by the Core Class to gain permanent access to them as well.

Thats how I do see this. Elite Specs and Mastery System need to get merged for the ultimate Character Progression

PS: and to get those 4 trials, each Class/Character has to find somewhere in the world of Tyria 4 Grandmasters, 4 unique persons, which take you as their pupils so that they can teach you their secrets, until they put you under their trials to prove them, that you are worthy of their wisdom, by havign to defeat them in duels , using everything that you have learned by them, that they have tested from you to surpass on your course to truly mastery your Elite Specialization, so that they can call you with pride in their chests an Elite of your Class.

^^THIS!!!
I can’t describe how do I like your ideas!
This should be in first place in the Suggestions section as well.
As for final part – being a pupil of Grandmasters – that’s so similar how I had imagined learning new skills from the beginning of GW2 (I have even dreamed of possibility learning alternate skills for weapons in such way).
It is a pity they went with generic “gather some abstract points (what’s that?) then spend them to unlock everything”.

Yes, so generic many other MMOs on the market are doing the exact same thing?

Einlanzer.1627:

I think it makes sense. My only complaint is that there’s so much stuff tied to elite specs that it kind of messes with the whole system of trait/skill unlocks.

I actually think they screwed up in combining skill and trait unlocks under the “hero point” umbrella. It worked better when they were separate, since skills and traits really shouldn’t be in competition with one another; they are separate systems that complement each other, so they should have individualized progression.

Absoluely… elite specs should have 2 progression lines, one for skills the other for traits…

Weapons and skills should NOT require the spec to be slotted to use, once you learn them you know them, period, there is no reason to restrict them like they have. The traits and new mechanics are what really define the spec, not the weapon. And if they separate them then it insures that the mistake of defining a spec by the weapon, or tying important spec defining mechanics into the weapon skills wont happen (mirage axe 3)

This fierce commitment to the compartmentalization of everything is throwing away so much potential. But then I’ve spent the better part of the last 5 years drifting away from GW2 becoming enamoured with gimmicky content that one can burn through in hours.

I do believe that weapon shouldn’t be locked by spec, i think it’ll be better if all weapon available for all class. That said, Weapon locked by spec are game mechanic that’s completely unrelated to lore so it was never a case of our character forgot how to use a weapon by changing trait.

Einlanzer.1627:

I think it makes sense. My only complaint is that there’s so much stuff tied to elite specs that it kind of messes with the whole system of trait/skill unlocks.

I actually think they screwed up in combining skill and trait unlocks under the “hero point” umbrella. It worked better when they were separate, since skills and traits really shouldn’t be in competition with one another; they are separate systems that complement each other, so they should have individualized progression.

There’s no “competition”, hero points aren’t a meaningfully limited resource (there’s enough right now to unlock your HoT spec, your PoF spec, and get almost halfway through a hypothetical third one!)

I remember a time when players actually appreciated the challenges that build limitations offered them … and the feeling they got when they overcame those challenges with smart gameplay. Does no one want to play smart anymore?

Obtena.7952:

I remember a time when players actually appreciated the challenges that build limitations offered them … and the feeling they got when they overcame those challenges with smart gameplay. Does no one want to play smart anymore?

I do. However, games have become, sadly, more about gratification than anything else these days. I want to blame Facebook games, but really that is only part of it.

From a lore perspective, I would prefer that (in PvE), once a character learns the Elite Specialization, they are free to use that spec’s unique weapon whenever they wish. It just doesn’t make sense to me that my character, as part of learning the Chronomancer’s skills, suddenly forgets how to use a shield when she begins training as a Mirage.

That said, given that class balance is much more important in PvP and WvW, I’d be OK with keeping the Elite Spec weapons restricted in those modes.