Guild Wars 2

I’ve been reading quite a lot of discussion recently on the forums about where the game should be going, and how arena net isn’t really communicating with us very effectively about this. I’m not going to talk about the HR aspect of that discussion, but I wanted to talk about something.
First of all I know Guild Wars 2 is a completely separate entity from Guild Wars 1 – they have nothing to do with one another, short of loose lore threads and a shared name. But I wanted to bring something up, both as a reminder to veterans of the franchise, and something that people who didn’t play GW1 can think about.

It’s about “endgame” and what constitutes a good “endgame”. I’m not going to start begging for 10, 20, 25 man raids with a steep gear progression. I’m going to talk about Guild Wars 1’s end game.

Because I fondly remember how many years I put into GW1’s end game, always with a goal…some of them I never quite finished. So what did we do in GW1’s end game that’s missing from GW2?

The Underworld and the Fissure of Woe. These zones were hardcore. Before multitudes of gimmicky builds started flooding the community, these were a challenge. People went in them, often wiping, for the rare chance at one of the many rare materials needed to craft the most prestigious armor skin:

Obsidian armor. I thought about this for a minute and realized…well, we have Ascended armor. It’s expensive to craft and has a unique appearance. But what made Obsidian armor so much more prestigious is the fact that you needed to complete very difficult content, and quite a bit of it. Not only that but you could only acquire the armor itself deep within one of these end game zones – the Fissure of Woe.
Guild Wars 2 needs it’s own “Obsidian armor”, for one thing.

Domain of Anguish. This was Fissure of Woe/Underworld on steroids. It was a zone that was divided into four sections, each one with a rare chance to drop a specific item. After you collected enough, you could trade them for ONE rare, prestigious, expensive skin.
Guild Wars 2 needs it’s own Domain of Anguish.

Hard mode. This was the same content, with added challenge. This kept people going. You’d complete everything on Hard mode on one map, and you’d do the next one. And it was CHALLENGING.
Whether it was explorable zones or missions (essentially story dungeons), they required co-ordination and skill.
Guild Wars 2 needs it’s own hard mode.

Titles. Titles meant something in Guild Wars 1, because for most of them, they were a sign of “I have completed this in hard mode”, or “I have explored this region” (exploring was different in that game). Titles in this game aren’t as valuable. They aren’t as respected, short of some of the PvP titles.

The huge chunk of added content every 6 months…or “Campaigns.”
This is Cantha & Elona. BIG packs of content, essentially expansions, that came only 6 months between.
Guild Wars 2 could do with it’s own “campaigns.”

I’ve only listed the main ones, and I’ve tried to word it so it doesn’t sound like I’m demanding exactly what GW1 had. I’m asking for GW2’s equivalents.
The game needs content to keep people invested and happy. GW1 had that content. GW2 could learn a lot from it’s ancestor.

All of that and you made no mention of the absolute biggest advantage that Guild Wars 1 had over Guild Wars 2?

Guild Wars 1 had a beautiful build system characterized by dozens of unique, often specialized skills for each class as well as a flexible attribute system that complemented build variety rather than restricting it. Guild Wars 1 elite skills weren’t just generic super buttons – they were unique, build-defining skills that served special purposes.

Guild Wars 2 will never be on par with its predecessor because of its inferior take on build philosophy.

Ah the good old rose-tinted glasses seems to sell well these days.

People tend to complain about how much you need to grind in Guild Wars 2, and yet they complete disregard the massive amounts of grind needed for quite some stuff in Guild Wars 1.
Such as almost everything on this list.

Obsidian Armor is probably one of the most grindy things to get in any western game. DoA (Domain of Anguish) also required not only completion of the story mode, but also spending time grinding titles in order to get more or less required skills and a required title which protected against the enemies there.

As for the whole “huge chunk of added content every 6 months” that only ever happened ONCE during the time of the game. Between Faction and Nightfall. Between Prophecies and Factions it was almost exactly a year.
Between Nightfall and Eye of the North was little less than a year.

gw2 is great bcs i can hop in any time without i feel i lost any progress

Re: End Game.

In my opinion, and many people may disagree with me on this, Guild Wars 2 has plenty of ‘End Game’ -

To me the ‘fore game’ is the personal story, i.e. the missions like GW1. Possibly map completion is ‘fore game’ as well. Renowned Hearts were meant to be treated like ‘traditional quests’ but I think a lot of people have forgotten this I think.

The end game for me is WvW / PvP / Living Story / Making Legendaries / Guild Missions / Dungeons / Fractals. I and many players also do Roleplay to give ourselves a bit of end-game too.

I think there’s plenty of end-game to choose from.

I’ve also noticed over the past two years, (and I’m not saying this about anyone in particular just a general observation), that it almost always seems to be people who farm or do ‘trains’ that tend to complain the most about lack of end game.

Obviously, only my opinion.

I understand what the OP is saying. I played Guild Wars 1 for well over five years and I did the “end game” instances maybe once or twice each.

A lot of people PvPed only and never entered PvE at all. A lot of people just hung out in the world and did missions.

I enjoyed vanquishing and achievements.

End game made Guild Wars 1 great for a percentage of the playerbase, but only Anet knows what percentage of the playerbase that was…however, I strongly suspect that if most people were running DOA or the Underworld, then we would have gotten more of that in Guild Wars 2. I can’t prove it, but it makes sense to me.

lordkrall.7241:

Ah the good old rose-tinted glasses seems to sell well these days.

People tend to complain about how much you need to grind in Guild Wars 2, and yet they complete disregard the massive amounts of grind needed for quite some stuff in Guild Wars 1.
Such as almost everything on this list.

Obsidian Armor is probably one of the most grindy things to get in any western game. DoA (Domain of Anguish) also required not only completion of the story mode, but also spending time grinding titles in order to get more or less required skills and a required title which protected against the enemies there.

As for the whole “huge chunk of added content every 6 months” that only ever happened ONCE during the time of the game. Between Faction and Nightfall. Between Prophecies and Factions it was almost exactly a year.
Between Nightfall and Eye of the North was little less than a year.

Grind is only worthy of criticism when it provides advantage.

Ascended Gear, for example, provides a statistical advantage on par with receiving a free 5% damage trait, a free 5% armor trait, and a free 5% boost to all of your attributes, as well as infusion slots that can also provide some stat boosts. It’s not enormous, but it is best-in-stat, and there is an undeniable large grind to receive some form of statistical advantage.

Obsidian armor, like all guild wars 1 armor sets, was purely aesthetic. There was no mandatory grind to it. It simply had a look (which any given player may or may not care for) and a connotation of prestige, no different from that of Legendary Weapons in Guild Wars 2.

When it comes to certain titles, you would have a somewhat more valid point. Performance boosting titles (like Lightbringer), did leave a somewhat bitter taste in mouth when they were introduced, as they represented small steps away from what Guild Wars was supposed to represent.

And there are no rose-tinted glasses here. I speak as someone who has put roughly 3k hours into each game. Guild Wars 1 was the better game with better skill and content design. Guild Wars 2’s improvements have largely been in the aesthetic and combat (dodging and mobile skills) departments, but even the value of the improved combat has been diminished by the game’s usage of one of the genre’s weakest skill systems.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Grind is only worthy of criticism when it provides advantage.

Ascended Armor, for example, provides a statistical advantage on par with receiving a free 5% damage trait, a free 5% armor trait, and a free 5% boost to all of your attributes, as well as infusion slots that can also provide some stat boosts. It’s not enormous, but it is best-in-stat, and there is an undeniable large grind to receive some form of statistical advantage.

Obsidian armor, like all guild wars 1 armor sets, was purely aesthetic. There was no mandatory grind to it. It simply had a look (which any given player may or may not care for) and a connotation of prestige, no different from that of Legendary Weapons in Guild Wars 2.

When it comes to certain titles, you would have a somewhat more valid point. Performance boosting titles (like Lightbringer), did leave a somewhat bitter taste in mouth when they were introduced, as they represented small steps away from what Guild Wars was supposed to represent.

And there are no rose-tinted glasses here. I speak as someone who has put roughly 3k hours into each game. Guild Wars 1 was the better game with better skill and content design. Guild Wars 2’s improvements have largely been in the aesthetic and combat (dodging and mobile skills) departments, but even the value of the improved combat has been diminished by the game’s usage of one of the genre’s weakest skill systems.

Ah, you mean like titles that actually made you stronger or skills tied to certain titles that grew in strength the more you grinded the title? Those existed in Guild Wars 1 as early as Factions.
Or why not talk about the runes that usually required extreme luck or massive mount of gold which also made you much stronger?

I would not say that Guild Wars 1 was subjectively better than GW2. Sure it had more skills, but how many of those skills were actually used? How many of those skills were completely useless?

To have both games merged as one, would have been my ideal GW. No doubt about that. New and Old Tyria, yes please.

As the last update proved with the GW1 references lore wise, that non lore fans of GW2, still remembered the GW1 characters and it was THIS that got it the praise.

To heck with GW1, disliked the game when I tried it years ago and forum fanatics have completely turned me off wanting to try it again.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

lordkrall.7241:

Ah the good old rose-tinted glasses seems to sell well these days.

People tend to complain about how much you need to grind in Guild Wars 2, and yet they complete disregard the massive amounts of grind needed for quite some stuff in Guild Wars 1.
Such as almost everything on this list.

Obsidian Armor is probably one of the most grindy things to get in any western game. DoA (Domain of Anguish) also required not only completion of the story mode, but also spending time grinding titles in order to get more or less required skills and a required title which protected against the enemies there.

As for the whole “huge chunk of added content every 6 months” that only ever happened ONCE during the time of the game. Between Faction and Nightfall. Between Prophecies and Factions it was almost exactly a year.
Between Nightfall and Eye of the North was little less than a year.

Grind is only worthy of criticism when it provides advantage.

Ascended Gear, for example, provides a statistical advantage on par with receiving a free 5% damage trait, a free 5% armor trait, and a free 5% boost to all of your attributes, as well as infusion slots that can also provide some stat boosts. It’s not enormous, but it is best-in-stat, and there is an undeniable large grind to receive some form of statistical advantage.

Obsidian armor, like all guild wars 1 armor sets, was purely aesthetic. There was no mandatory grind to it. It simply had a look (which any given player may or may not care for) and a connotation of prestige, no different from that of Legendary Weapons in Guild Wars 2.

When it comes to certain titles, you would have a somewhat more valid point. Performance boosting titles (like Lightbringer), did leave a somewhat bitter taste in mouth when they were introduced, as they represented small steps away from what Guild Wars was supposed to represent.

And there are no rose-tinted glasses here. I speak as someone who has put roughly 3k hours into each game. Guild Wars 1 was the better game with better skill and content design. Guild Wars 2’s improvements have largely been in the aesthetic and combat (dodging and mobile skills) departments, but even the value of the improved combat has been diminished by the game’s usage of one of the genre’s weakest skill systems.

You’re right. I don’t remember grinding Luxon or Kurzick points to make those skills more powerful. Or sunspear or light bringer skills. And no one ever spammed looking for Ursan rank 8. I don’t remember that at all.

Rose colored glasses are rose colored.

Yes, the games are very different. I’ve put more hours than you in both of them. One is better in some ways and one is better in other ways.

Vayne.8563:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

lordkrall.7241:

Ah the good old rose-tinted glasses seems to sell well these days.

People tend to complain about how much you need to grind in Guild Wars 2, and yet they complete disregard the massive amounts of grind needed for quite some stuff in Guild Wars 1.
Such as almost everything on this list.

Obsidian Armor is probably one of the most grindy things to get in any western game. DoA (Domain of Anguish) also required not only completion of the story mode, but also spending time grinding titles in order to get more or less required skills and a required title which protected against the enemies there.

As for the whole “huge chunk of added content every 6 months” that only ever happened ONCE during the time of the game. Between Faction and Nightfall. Between Prophecies and Factions it was almost exactly a year.
Between Nightfall and Eye of the North was little less than a year.

Grind is only worthy of criticism when it provides advantage.

Ascended Gear, for example, provides a statistical advantage on par with receiving a free 5% damage trait, a free 5% armor trait, and a free 5% boost to all of your attributes, as well as infusion slots that can also provide some stat boosts. It’s not enormous, but it is best-in-stat, and there is an undeniable large grind to receive some form of statistical advantage.

Obsidian armor, like all guild wars 1 armor sets, was purely aesthetic. There was no mandatory grind to it. It simply had a look (which any given player may or may not care for) and a connotation of prestige, no different from that of Legendary Weapons in Guild Wars 2.

When it comes to certain titles, you would have a somewhat more valid point. Performance boosting titles (like Lightbringer), did leave a somewhat bitter taste in mouth when they were introduced, as they represented small steps away from what Guild Wars was supposed to represent.

And there are no rose-tinted glasses here. I speak as someone who has put roughly 3k hours into each game. Guild Wars 1 was the better game with better skill and content design. Guild Wars 2’s improvements have largely been in the aesthetic and combat (dodging and mobile skills) departments, but even the value of the improved combat has been diminished by the game’s usage of one of the genre’s weakest skill systems.

You’re right. I don’t remember grinding Luxon or Kurzick points to make those skills more powerful. Or sunspear or light bringer skills. And no one ever spammed looking for Ursan rank 8. I don’t remember that at all.

Rose colored glasses are rose colored.

Yes, the games are very different. I’ve put more hours than you in both of them. One is better in some ways and one is better in other ways.

Again, the titles that I very clearly mentioned in my fourth paragraph. The singular design criticism I have for the first game. Dear lord, the blindness and lack of reading comprehension on these forums is astounding.

And, as I brought up in my next post, there was no Kurzick/Luxon skill grind until Nightfall came out and retroactively applied PvE skills to these titles. Actually, if memory serves, PvE skills may have come somewhat after the Nightfall release, not with it. Regardless, this was not a starting feature of Factions (which had been a beautiful campaign on its own), and it was a terrible update on par with Guild Wars 2’s own November 2012 Ascended update.

You can blame me for wearing rose-tinted glasses if you will. It’s better than the blind fanboyism you tend to show. At least there is an actual balance to the praises and criticisms that I tend to level against these games.

Vayne.8563:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

lordkrall.7241:

Ah the good old rose-tinted glasses seems to sell well these days.

People tend to complain about how much you need to grind in Guild Wars 2, and yet they complete disregard the massive amounts of grind needed for quite some stuff in Guild Wars 1.
Such as almost everything on this list.

Obsidian Armor is probably one of the most grindy things to get in any western game. DoA (Domain of Anguish) also required not only completion of the story mode, but also spending time grinding titles in order to get more or less required skills and a required title which protected against the enemies there.

As for the whole “huge chunk of added content every 6 months” that only ever happened ONCE during the time of the game. Between Faction and Nightfall. Between Prophecies and Factions it was almost exactly a year.
Between Nightfall and Eye of the North was little less than a year.

Grind is only worthy of criticism when it provides advantage.

Ascended Gear, for example, provides a statistical advantage on par with receiving a free 5% damage trait, a free 5% armor trait, and a free 5% boost to all of your attributes, as well as infusion slots that can also provide some stat boosts. It’s not enormous, but it is best-in-stat, and there is an undeniable large grind to receive some form of statistical advantage.

Obsidian armor, like all guild wars 1 armor sets, was purely aesthetic. There was no mandatory grind to it. It simply had a look (which any given player may or may not care for) and a connotation of prestige, no different from that of Legendary Weapons in Guild Wars 2.

When it comes to certain titles, you would have a somewhat more valid point. Performance boosting titles (like Lightbringer), did leave a somewhat bitter taste in mouth when they were introduced, as they represented small steps away from what Guild Wars was supposed to represent.

And there are no rose-tinted glasses here. I speak as someone who has put roughly 3k hours into each game. Guild Wars 1 was the better game with better skill and content design. Guild Wars 2’s improvements have largely been in the aesthetic and combat (dodging and mobile skills) departments, but even the value of the improved combat has been diminished by the game’s usage of one of the genre’s weakest skill systems.

You’re right. I don’t remember grinding Luxon or Kurzick points to make those skills more powerful. Or sunspear or light bringer skills. And no one ever spammed looking for Ursan rank 8. I don’t remember that at all.

Rose colored glasses are rose colored.

Yes, the games are very different. I’ve put more hours than you in both of them. One is better in some ways and one is better in other ways.

I did all the things in the original because they were fun and challenging, for the better part of 7 years. Not saying i didn’t get tired of doing the same stuff, i did. But the grind didn’t really feel like grind, since i enjoyed playing the content (sorrow furnace was a blast!). I’m not a big fan of how generic GW2 feels. The biggest improvement to GW2 IMO is the combat is more action like, the rest feels pretty generic (tries to cater to too many people) now though, stagnant almost. If it stays this way, i don’t see me playing 7 years down the road.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Vayne.8563:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

lordkrall.7241:

Ah the good old rose-tinted glasses seems to sell well these days.

People tend to complain about how much you need to grind in Guild Wars 2, and yet they complete disregard the massive amounts of grind needed for quite some stuff in Guild Wars 1.
Such as almost everything on this list.

Obsidian Armor is probably one of the most grindy things to get in any western game. DoA (Domain of Anguish) also required not only completion of the story mode, but also spending time grinding titles in order to get more or less required skills and a required title which protected against the enemies there.

As for the whole “huge chunk of added content every 6 months” that only ever happened ONCE during the time of the game. Between Faction and Nightfall. Between Prophecies and Factions it was almost exactly a year.
Between Nightfall and Eye of the North was little less than a year.

Grind is only worthy of criticism when it provides advantage.

Ascended Gear, for example, provides a statistical advantage on par with receiving a free 5% damage trait, a free 5% armor trait, and a free 5% boost to all of your attributes, as well as infusion slots that can also provide some stat boosts. It’s not enormous, but it is best-in-stat, and there is an undeniable large grind to receive some form of statistical advantage.

Obsidian armor, like all guild wars 1 armor sets, was purely aesthetic. There was no mandatory grind to it. It simply had a look (which any given player may or may not care for) and a connotation of prestige, no different from that of Legendary Weapons in Guild Wars 2.

When it comes to certain titles, you would have a somewhat more valid point. Performance boosting titles (like Lightbringer), did leave a somewhat bitter taste in mouth when they were introduced, as they represented small steps away from what Guild Wars was supposed to represent.

And there are no rose-tinted glasses here. I speak as someone who has put roughly 3k hours into each game. Guild Wars 1 was the better game with better skill and content design. Guild Wars 2’s improvements have largely been in the aesthetic and combat (dodging and mobile skills) departments, but even the value of the improved combat has been diminished by the game’s usage of one of the genre’s weakest skill systems.

You’re right. I don’t remember grinding Luxon or Kurzick points to make those skills more powerful. Or sunspear or light bringer skills. And no one ever spammed looking for Ursan rank 8. I don’t remember that at all.

Rose colored glasses are rose colored.

Yes, the games are very different. I’ve put more hours than you in both of them. One is better in some ways and one is better in other ways.

Again, the titles that I very clearly mentioned in my fourth paragraph. The singular design criticism I have for the first game. Dear lord, the blindness and lack of reading comprehension on these forums is astounding.

And, as I brought up in my next post, there was no Kurzick/Luxon skill grind until Nightfall came out and retroactively applied PvE skills to these titles. Actually, if memory serves, PvE skills may have come somewhat after the Nightfall release, not with it. Regardless, this was not a starting feature of Factions (which had been a beautiful campaign on its own), and it was a terrible update on par with Guild Wars 2’s own November 2012 Ascended update.

You can blame me for wearing rose-tinted glasses if you will. It’s better than the blind fanboyism you tend to show. At least there is an actual balance to the praises and criticisms that I tend to level against these games.

I said both games have strengths and weaknesses. Both games have things better about them. You way game A was better period.

Using the word fan boy to try to discredit a reasonable response doesn’t make your case any stronger.

Or is this one of those reading comprehension things you’re talking about.

munkiman.3068:

Vayne.8563:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

lordkrall.7241:

Ah the good old rose-tinted glasses seems to sell well these days.

People tend to complain about how much you need to grind in Guild Wars 2, and yet they complete disregard the massive amounts of grind needed for quite some stuff in Guild Wars 1.
Such as almost everything on this list.

Obsidian Armor is probably one of the most grindy things to get in any western game. DoA (Domain of Anguish) also required not only completion of the story mode, but also spending time grinding titles in order to get more or less required skills and a required title which protected against the enemies there.

As for the whole “huge chunk of added content every 6 months” that only ever happened ONCE during the time of the game. Between Faction and Nightfall. Between Prophecies and Factions it was almost exactly a year.
Between Nightfall and Eye of the North was little less than a year.

Grind is only worthy of criticism when it provides advantage.

Ascended Gear, for example, provides a statistical advantage on par with receiving a free 5% damage trait, a free 5% armor trait, and a free 5% boost to all of your attributes, as well as infusion slots that can also provide some stat boosts. It’s not enormous, but it is best-in-stat, and there is an undeniable large grind to receive some form of statistical advantage.

Obsidian armor, like all guild wars 1 armor sets, was purely aesthetic. There was no mandatory grind to it. It simply had a look (which any given player may or may not care for) and a connotation of prestige, no different from that of Legendary Weapons in Guild Wars 2.

When it comes to certain titles, you would have a somewhat more valid point. Performance boosting titles (like Lightbringer), did leave a somewhat bitter taste in mouth when they were introduced, as they represented small steps away from what Guild Wars was supposed to represent.

And there are no rose-tinted glasses here. I speak as someone who has put roughly 3k hours into each game. Guild Wars 1 was the better game with better skill and content design. Guild Wars 2’s improvements have largely been in the aesthetic and combat (dodging and mobile skills) departments, but even the value of the improved combat has been diminished by the game’s usage of one of the genre’s weakest skill systems.

You’re right. I don’t remember grinding Luxon or Kurzick points to make those skills more powerful. Or sunspear or light bringer skills. And no one ever spammed looking for Ursan rank 8. I don’t remember that at all.

Rose colored glasses are rose colored.

Yes, the games are very different. I’ve put more hours than you in both of them. One is better in some ways and one is better in other ways.

I did all the things in the original because they were fun and challenging, for the better part of 7 years. Not saying i didn’t get tired of doing the same stuff, i did. But the grind didn’t really feel like grind, since i enjoyed playing the content (sorrow furnace was a blast!). I’m not a big fan of how generic GW2 feels. The biggest improvement to GW2 IMO is the combat is more action like, the rest feels pretty generic (tries to cater to too many people) now though, stagnant almost. If it stays this way, i don’t see me playing 7 years down the road.

I understand what you’re saying. By the same token there are people who didn’t like Guild Wars 1 at all who really like Guild Wars 2. It’s a matter of what you enjoy.

The same sorts of things I enjoyed in Guild Wars 1 (for the most part) I enjoy in Guild Wars 2. That doesn’t mean everyone will feel like that.

But there are also things I could never go back to like not having a marketplace to sell things on. Like no jumping puzzles, which I love. Like having an open world where I can run into people instead of instances. Like swimming and going under water (which I also enjoy).

Both games have strengths and weaknesses and not everything will appeal to any one person.

lordkrall.7241:

Ah the good old rose-tinted glasses seems to sell well these days.

People tend to complain about how much you need to grind in Guild Wars 2, and yet they complete disregard the massive amounts of grind needed for quite some stuff in Guild Wars 1.
Such as almost everything on this list.

Obsidian Armor is probably one of the most grindy things to get in any western game. DoA (Domain of Anguish) also required not only completion of the story mode, but also spending time grinding titles in order to get more or less required skills and a required title which protected against the enemies there.

As for the whole “huge chunk of added content every 6 months” that only ever happened ONCE during the time of the game. Between Faction and Nightfall. Between Prophecies and Factions it was almost exactly a year.
Between Nightfall and Eye of the North was little less than a year.

None of the things you mentioned felt like a grind to me. Titles were done so fast with vanquishing or even dungeons I can even imagine calling this a grind.
Got all my obbies without grinding in FoW, just bought all the things needed for the armour.
DoA, even before I got there my lightbringer was maxed. I fail to see the grind in the things you mentioned.
The only grinds I can remember is the zaishen and pvp titles.

There are things that make it better than the others imho but the “great” stuff is still not implemented yet (for me at least).

1. Really nice housing where I can spend a long time and mats building it from rubble up to the highest possible model and show off my trophies. Tend farmland and not only those goofy nodes I got atm. Have npc helpers running around my housing I have to check back with from time to time or that inform me of things I have to take care of.

And

2. A Guildhall that feels like I`m in a important guild that we all build together from scratch with all the attached goodies. And I want to defend when other guilds think its time to bully us.

Would love the feature they had in DAOC where you could capture enemy guilds flags and have them as trophies in your own guildhall

Vayne.8563:

I understand what you’re saying. By the same token there are people who didn’t like Guild Wars 1 at all who really like Guild Wars 2. It’s a matter of what you enjoy.

The same sorts of things I enjoyed in Guild Wars 1 (for the most part) I enjoy in Guild Wars 2. That doesn’t mean everyone will feel like that.

But there are also things I could never go back to like not having a marketplace to sell things on. Like no jumping puzzles, which I love. Like having an open world where I can run into people instead of instances. Like swimming and going under water (which I also enjoy).

Both games have strengths and weaknesses and not everything will appeal to any one person.

The original played to the hands of some specific groups, it did PvP well too. While underwater combat and vertical movement are definitely an improvement they have some pretty big flaws.

While the marketplace does well, it’s taken 2 years to improve with features people have requested for awhile. Then there is this excessive amount of stuff we have to deal with. Adding more currencies and items doesn’t improve the game for anyone, which seems to be the focus. Gladly we now actually have a search mechanic that is useful.

Jumping puzzles i do enjoy as well, however, the camera is frustrating. I think more people would actually enjoy them and do better at them if they improved the camera. A fundamental flaw that has existed since day one.

Similarly, to that issue is underwater combat. The reason it’s not done very well in other games either is the camera… Spacial awareness is tough to translate well in video games. I wouldn’t say that underwater is a largely favored feature, if it didn’t exist, i doubt it would be a game breaker. It does help immersion though.

Things not getting addressed at the core makes things feel stagnant, regardless if the feature is something a small group enjoy or not.

Vayne.8563:

You way game A was better period.

Game B has a superior art direction (and graphics quality), as well as a fantastic dye and character customization system. Game B has a superior and more modern combat system thanks to dodging and a large number of mobile skills. I have acknowledged these (and will always acknowledge these) as improvements of this game, which you have seemed to miss, bringing that “lack of reading comprehension” once again full circle. If I were to truly dig for more minute advantages of the sequel over its predecessor, I could give some weight to its interesting Runes and Sigils, its multiple races (which, unfortunately, have also contributed to the lower number of armor sets and skill animations, thanks to their individualized requirements), and its highly flexible game engine, which has been used for a large number of interesting applications. Arguably, Season 2 of the Living Story has also demonstrated that Guild Wars 2 has the better potential direct storytelling, though I would currently give the edge for background lore to Guild Wars 1.

Where Game A is superior, however, is largely a matter of depth and versatility. A flexible, expansive build system that allowed for great amounts of specialization. Classes (here referring to both base classes and player-invented builds through combined classes) that had actual synergy and team-oriented design. A versatile assortment of PvP modes that covered a wide range of tastes with (usually high-quality) scenarios. Its larger-scale PvP (here referring to Alliance Battles vs. World vs. World) was much more varied and interesting, thanks in large part to the viability of both split and zerg strategies. Its high-end PvP scene was far superior. It had a wider range of viable endgame content (the very thing that the OP took the time to point out) because of the existence of Hard Mode, DoA, FoW, DoA, and a plethora of interesting Eye of the North dungeons.

I could keep going on about the advantages of Guild Wars 1, but I won’t. The point is pretty clear. Guild Wars 2’s advantages are largely in style, appearance, modern combat mechanics, and engine potential. Guild Wars 1 was the better game in terms of substance.

Truly, to make the best game of all time would be to combine these advantages. The depth and flexibility of Guild Wars 1’s build system and attributes with GW2 style runes and sigils – and trait trees that aren’t connected to a wretched, limiting stat system. Guild Wars 1’s approach to tier-free gear with Guild Wars 2’s incredible dye system. Guild Wars 2’s flexible engine with Guild Wars 1’s well-designed endgame content. Guild Wars 2’s combat system with the fantastic PvP modes of Guild Wars 1.

Unfortunately, that’s never going to happen. Because Arenanet can’t seem to acknowledge the glory of their previous creation, nor take its most valuable mechanics to improve their new game.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Vayne.8563:

You way game A was better period.

Game B has a superior art direction (and graphics quality), as well as a fantastic dye and character customization system. Game B has a superior and more modern combat system thanks to dodging and a large number of mobile skills. I have acknowledged these (and will always acknowledge these) as improvements of this game, which you have seemed to miss, bringing that “lack of reading comprehension” once again full circle. If I were to truly dig for more minute advantages of the sequel over its predecessor, I could give some weight to its interesting Runes and Sigils, its multiple races (which, unfortunately, have also contributed to the lower number of armor sets and skill animations, thanks to their individualized requirements), and its highly flexible game engine, which has been used for a large number of interesting applications. Arguably, Season 2 of the Living Story has also demonstrated that Guild Wars 2 has the better potential direct storytelling, though I would currently give the edge for background lore to Guild Wars 1.

Where Game A is superior, however, is largely a matter of depth and versatility. A flexible, expansive build system that allowed for great amounts of specialization. Classes (here referring to both base classes and player-invented builds through combined classes) that had actual synergy and team-oriented design. A versatile assortment of PvP modes that covered a wide range of tastes with (usually high-quality) scenarios. It’s larger-scale PvP (here referring to Alliance Battles vs. World vs. World) was much more varied and interesting, thanks in large part to the viability of both split and zerg strategies. It’s high-end PvP scene was far superior. It had a wider range of viable endgame content (the very thing that the OP took the time to point out) because of the existence of Hard Mode, DoA, FoW, DoA, and a plethora of interesting Eye of the North dungeons.

I could keep going on about the advantages of Guild Wars 1, but I won’t. The point is pretty clear. Guild Wars 2’s advantages are largely in style, appearance, modern combat mechanics, and engine potential. Guild Wars 1 was the better game in terms of substance.

Truly, to make the best game of all time would be to combine these advantages. The depth and flexibility of Guild Wars 1’s build system and attributes with GW2 style runes and sigils – and trait trees that aren’t connected to a wretched, limiting stat system. Guild Wars 1’s approach to tier-free gear with Guild Wars 2’s incredible dye system. Guild Wars 2’s flexible engine with Guild Wars 1’s well-designed endgame content. Guild Wars 2’s combat system with the fantastic PvP modes of Guild Wars 1.

Unfortunately, that’s never going to happen. Because Arenanet can’t seem to acknowledge the glory of their previous creation, nor take its most valuable mechanics to improve their new game.

One man’s substance is another man’s trash.

You liked what was on offer there more than what is on offer here. You think that offering was more substantial.

But when I walked out into a zone in Guild Wars 1 I always knew exactly what I was going to face…where every drop down/pop up was. Every group of every creature. That to me is less depth…or a different kind of depth.

There are situations that occur in Guild Wars 2 that didn’t and couldn’t occur in Guild Wars 1. Yes, they’re different games.

And different people will like different things about each. The very things that made Guild Wars 1 a strong game were in my mind its biggest weaknesses.

Vayne.8563:

But when I walked out into a zone in Guild Wars 1 I always knew exactly what I was going to face…where every drop down/pop up was. Every group of every creature. That to me is less depth…or a different kind of depth.

You were clearly some kind of clairvoyant, then. Because that’s actually the case with Guild Wars 2 (in terms of non-event mobs and dungeon mobs). Guild Wars 1 mobs often carried large patrols and killed eachother (with no respawns). Bosses would often spawn at random, not spawn at all, or spawn and kill each other, creating different scenarios.

Guild Wars 2’s mob dynamism comes solely in the form of dynamic events (only a few of which are in certain dungeon paths, and most of which are ignored/skipped by most groups). Now, I LOVE dynamic events, which I didn’t directly mention but mentally lumped under the advantage of engine superiority. DE’s do a lot to make the world feel alive, and they are a great asset to Guild Wars 2.

It is sheer stupidity (or at least forgetfulness), however, to discredit the standard mob spawns in the first game as entirely stagnant. Dynamic Events can be seen as a large improvement over the dynamic mob spawns of many of the first game’s missions, but the system was already there in some small part.

Vayne.8563:

One man’s substance is another man’s trash.

You liked what was on offer there more than what is on offer here. You think that offering was more substantial.

But when I walked out into a zone in Guild Wars 1 I always knew exactly what I was going to face…where every drop down/pop up was. Every group of every creature. That to me is less depth…or a different kind of depth.

There are situations that occur in Guild Wars 2 that didn’t and couldn’t occur in Guild Wars 1. Yes, they’re different games.

And different people will like different things about each. The very things that made Guild Wars 1 a strong game were in my mind its biggest weaknesses.

GW2 environment can be predicted fairly well just by knowing the success/fail of local event and time of day/night cycle (both of which made obvious by looking). GW1 had greater surprise comparatively simply by mobs interacting with each other.

Regardless, things that made GW1 great for me are greater than what GW2 offers. I can say for a fact that if they released a campaign simultaneously for both games, i would happily ignore second for first. Guild Wars 2 is a very good game… but first did it better (my personal opinion which others may/may not share).

lordkrall.7241:

Ah the good old rose-tinted glasses seems to sell well these days.

People tend to complain about how much you need to grind in Guild Wars 2, and yet they complete disregard the massive amounts of grind needed for quite some stuff in Guild Wars 1.
Such as almost everything on this list.

Obsidian Armor is probably one of the most grindy things to get in any western game. DoA (Domain of Anguish) also required not only completion of the story mode, but also spending time grinding titles in order to get more or less required skills and a required title which protected against the enemies there.

As for the whole “huge chunk of added content every 6 months” that only ever happened ONCE during the time of the game. Between Faction and Nightfall. Between Prophecies and Factions it was almost exactly a year.
Between Nightfall and Eye of the North was little less than a year.

I dunno where the rose tinted glasses are, friend. Because I didn’t complain about the grind in GW2. I’m just saying it worked better in GW1.

From my memory, you didn’t NEED to “grind out” (subjective) the titles, because they weren’t NEEDED for the content. It was the speed clear groups that wanted them. I remember DoA ursan runs…it was a form of speed clear, it wasn’t how the content was designed.

@ Vayne, just saying you’ve “played longer” than both of us doesn’t do anything for your point.

What really saddens me is the state of PvP compared to the prequel. Most of my friends who played the first game for the PvP left months after launch and I can understand them. Before they had a well functioning rank/rating system in GvG , prestige earned via guild capes, HoH notifications, observer, high reward/skill ratio with ingame hosted tournaments and HoH chests…. not to mention the available game mode variety.

PvE is lacking on numerous side as well , my main issue is the lack of challenging content ,but I learned to live with this direction , nowadays I play a few hours a week for the living story, try to ignore the questionable storywriting and log off.

Playing through GW1 now for HoM achievements and as much as I prefer the writing and class flexibility, I think GW2’s combat is much more engaging, controls much more responsive, and camera less of an eyesore (especially this, I’m trying to do Heart of the Shiverpeaks right now and I can’t get the camera to look up high enough – or stop snapping back to default angle – when I’m twenty feet away to see his attack coming).

There are a lot of features in GW1 that I wish made it into GW2, but overall I think I still prefer GW2 over its predecessor.

There are several reasons why Guild wars 1 was so great. In my personal opinion I still happily go back to GW1 and play it for hours without getting bored compared to GW2. Here are my reasons for why:

1. Game mechanics-When I say this, I generally mean the combat. With a wide variety of builds there’s so much to do with making them for specific roles. Of course GW2 lacks in skill variation but its not just builds but how PvP actually took skill to play Builds. You can play a warrior and have to time your stances Unlike in GW2 where you can simply have Multiple stances up at once. You can’t do that in GW1 because you can only have 1 stance active a time-Like you can have frenzy and as soon as you know you get focused/bursted you switch to a different stance which cancels frenzy.

2. End game. End game is important to every MMO (Imo) Because its what people are wanting to do once they’ve done the Leveling, the story, the gear grinding, the Cosmetics they want. They wan’t to do something that will be worth while in terms of loot/game experience and Fun-Because thats what we play games for, right? But anyway GW1 Endgame was pretty fun. I mean at first we had “Tomb of the primeval kings” which was in Prophecies. It was the original Underworld if you like. Then we had the “Underworld” and “Fissure of Woe” again. Elite areas, hard, required team work and knowledge of area, Map awareness, Spawns-Not all the spawns were %100 accurate in the same spot. Then there is Domain of Anguish. So so much fun, and you are literally guaranteed to make at least a semi-decent amount of profit, if not MOAR.

3. Hardmode- Hard mode was basically making mobs stronger, their builds more affective and basically.. it was more challenging. We had Missions and if you completed the Game(Lets say factions) you could go back to Mission 1 and play it all the way up to the last in Hard mode and get rewarded with a title! Yea we have acheivements in GW2 but anyway Hardmode was what made GW1 interesting. Vanquishing(Killing every mob in the area-Sometimes theres upto 450+). Just general harder and challenging mobs to fight.

4. Farming-I’d say coming from a beta prophecies player to a GW2 player. Farming was never a problem in GW1. There were so many farming locations solo or Team that you could grind and actually Enjoy it. Veattir Farming anybody? Maybe Voltiac spear farming? Either way, we were able to farm different locations if we get bored-Meaning we didn’t feel braindead compared to gw2 pushing 1,1,1,6,7,2,1,1,1. And repeat.

5. It seems weird but Questing? I always found GW1 Quests Interesting. Sometimes they are tied up with lore and other times not so much. But it made you go out and Explore maps and areas more. I think we need something like Daily tasks in GW2 (Not dailies but tasks) I mean we had Zaishen bounties. You get a Pvp, A challenge and Quest. Completing these gave you tokens, which you could save and convert to Bronze→Silver and then eventually to gold. The rewards got better depending your coin (Bronze,Silver,Gold).

GW is a game of substance, of innovation done right, of ingenuity in its finest form, all of which helped create an unprecedented game experience few games can hold a candle to.

GW2, on the other hand, is but a game of fluff – an empty shell pretending to be something, while miserably sinking in the quagmire of superficiality together with the rest of the average, the mediocre, and the bad.

But to sum up my sentiments, GW2 lacks…

“that special feel to the game, the emphasis on team work, competition, drama, game modes that make fun, a sense of belonging, guild halls, observer mode, variety, skills that do something, clear animations, no ugly redunant character races, beautiful character designs, armor/weapons that look great and got style, a pvp and pve that are/were worth while, a concept of pvp so kitten good yet so elusive that it apparently will never be captured again, the simplicity of it all and the depth hidden within, the epic music and pve story …”

“But ok, fine, the original doesn’t have dodging and stealthing… instead, it has body blocking, protection monks, domination mesmers, actual rangers, prekiting, less spam and more brain, no perma anything (in pvp, but pve should have followed suit) …”

as I had expressed in one of my past posts.

Edit: Since I’m sitting on 1pos/30min timer, I’ll just paste my reply here:

Vayne.8563

Guild Wars 1 was a game of builds which you could look up online and copy.

Zelda is a game of exploration and puzzle-solving, all of which you could look up on the webs and simply follow the manual.
Does that make the game any bit less spectacular, special, and enjoyable? No.

Canakun.8031:

From my memory, you didn’t NEED to “grind out” (subjective) the titles, because they weren’t NEEDED for the content. It was the speed clear groups that wanted them. I remember DoA ursan runs…it was a form of speed clear, it wasn’t how the content was designed.

@ Vayne, just saying you’ve “played longer” than both of us doesn’t do anything for your point.

I said how long I played because the person I was answering said how long he played and for no other reason. I didn’t want anyone to assume I didn’t have the experience to form an opinion.

The only content in this game that requires ascended gear is high level fractals and those fractals were designed specifically for that reason.

And though the game itself didn’t require certain builds, players of the game most certainly did. If you didn’t have the build of the week, good luck finding a party to go into DOA or the Underworld with. As much as people complain about that in Guild Wars 2, this was far more prevalent in Guild Wars 1.

KarlaGrey.5903:

GW is a game of substance, of innovation done right, of ingenuity in its finest form, all of which helped create an unprecedented game experience few games can hold a candle to.

GW2, on the other hand, is but a game of fluff – an empty shell pretending to be something, while miserably sinking in the quagmire of superficiality together with the rest of the average, the mediocre, and the bad.

Here’s also one of my past posts which expresses my sentiments a little bit more precisely:

That special feel to the game, the emphasis on team work, competition, drama, game modes that make fun, a sense of belonging, guild halls, observer mode, variety, skills that do something, clear animations, no ugly redunant character races, beautiful character designs, armor/weapons that look great and got style, a pvp and pve that are/were worth while, a concept of pvp so kitten good yet so elusive that it apparently will never be captured again, the simplicity of it all and the depth hidden within, the epic music and pve story …

But ok, fine, the original doesn’t have dodging and stealthing… instead, it has body blocking, protection monks, domination mesmers, actual rangers, prekiting, less spam and more brain, no perma anything (in pvp, but pve should have followed suit) …

Guild Wars 1 was a game of builds which you could look up online and copy. You could have heroes run most of the game for you, even in hard mode, with a few elite content exceptions.

I could literally afk with premade builds, not play at all, and kill almost anything that wasn’t in an elite instance.

There was definitely depth for theory crafters, but you could get by on the tiniest bit of skill.

There was a guy I knew who did almost nothing but farm feathers on Shing Jea Island. He farmed feathers and bought runs through everything he wanted.

Definitely a lot of depth there.

Canakun.8031:

The Underworld and the Fissure of Woe. These zones were hardcore. Before multitudes of gimmicky builds started flooding the community, these were a challenge. People went in them, often wiping, for the rare chance at one of the many rare materials needed to craft the most prestigious armor skin:

Maybe I missed it because I started playing GW1 3 months after release, but back when I started UW wasn’t so hard anymore. I was going there with my party and could finish the whole thing. If you look at it, during the first month of release, AC was considered a nightmare and now it’s easy mode. FoW was easy enough from the start anyway, as I said, maybe they were very hard during the first 2-3 months, but I wouldn’t call them “hard” after a while. Same with any kind of instanced content (dungeons/raids) in mmorpgs in general.

Obsidian armor. I thought about this for a minute and realized…well, we have Ascended armor. It’s expensive to craft and has a unique appearance. But what made Obsidian armor so much more prestigious is the fact that you needed to complete very difficult content, and quite a bit of it. Not only that but you could only acquire the armor itself deep within one of these end game zones – the Fissure of Woe.
Guild Wars 2 needs it’s own “Obsidian armor”, for one thing.

The equal to Obsidian Armor are Legendaries. And just like Legendaries, you didn’t have to do ANY kind of difficult content to get your Obsidian Armor. The mats were easily available on the material vendor, you could buy all the ectos or shards you ever wanted with one click. Later on, solo farm builds appeared, allowing players to farm/grind for those materials solo, using cheesy mode builds that trivialised the content. You didn’t craft the Obsdian Armor by FINISHING content, you got the mats for it by killing random mobs, this is different, and similar to how GW2 legendaries work.

There was no prestige in Obsidian Armor. Maybe it was for the first couple of months when it meant something, but afterward it didn’t mean anything. I still remember those guys coming to HA with their Obsidian armor and post on chat: “Obsidian Warrior looking for Group”, as if having Obsidian Armor meant anything for player skill… The only reason I finally got my obsidian armor crafted was to put it on my HoM, In my opinion the skins weren’t good anyway.

Domain of Anguish. This was Fissure of Woe/Underworld on steroids. It was a zone that was divided into four sections, each one with a rare chance to drop a specific item. After you collected enough, you could trade them for ONE rare, prestigious, expensive skin.

I agree here, unlike UW/FoW, DoA was amazing. I also loved the reward system of Domain of Anguish. Finish one boss? 1 stone, 2 bosses? 2 stones, 3 bosses? 3 stones? All of them? 4 stones. So it took some calculating and managing to get the stones you wanted. Players who farmed the easy parts got some rewards, but those who could do the whole thing, without ever changing their build, got the most rewards. This is a reward system that is badly needed in GW2! The zone itself was hard enough, especially at release, but Anet decided to nerf it and make the environmental effects work only on Hard Mode (I guess it was too hard with those for the average player :P) Although the final boss remains bugged to this day…. 8 years and still no fix for poor Mallyx, shows something about Anet and bugs!

Guild Wars 2 needs it’s own hard mode.

Hard Mode on regular zones is impossible to do in an Open World MMORPG, but maybe Story or Instanced parts could use an increase in difficulty. The recent “hard” Achievements for LS S2 serve this purpose.

Vayne.8563:

KarlaGrey.5903:

GW is a game of substance, of innovation done right, of ingenuity in its finest form, all of which helped create an unprecedented game experience few games can hold a candle to.

GW2, on the other hand, is but a game of fluff – an empty shell pretending to be something, while miserably sinking in the quagmire of superficiality together with the rest of the average, the mediocre, and the bad.

Here’s also one of my past posts which expresses my sentiments a little bit more precisely:

That special feel to the game, the emphasis on team work, competition, drama, game modes that make fun, a sense of belonging, guild halls, observer mode, variety, skills that do something, clear animations, no ugly redunant character races, beautiful character designs, armor/weapons that look great and got style, a pvp and pve that are/were worth while, a concept of pvp so kitten good yet so elusive that it apparently will never be captured again, the simplicity of it all and the depth hidden within, the epic music and pve story …

But ok, fine, the original doesn’t have dodging and stealthing… instead, it has body blocking, protection monks, domination mesmers, actual rangers, prekiting, less spam and more brain, no perma anything (in pvp, but pve should have followed suit) …

Guild Wars 1 was a game of builds which you could look up online and copy. You could have heroes run most of the game for you, even in hard mode, with a few elite content exceptions.

I could literally afk with premade builds, not play at all, and kill almost anything that wasn’t in an elite instance.

There was definitely depth for theory crafters, but you could get by on the tiniest bit of skill.

There was a guy I knew who did almost nothing but farm feathers on Shing Jea Island. He farmed feathers and bought runs through everything he wanted.

Definitely a lot of depth there.

Well doesn’t sound much different from GW2.
-its either Zerker or Gtfo
-Events are pretty much Zerg,zerg,zerg.
-Everything is to easy
-Theres people that sit there and don’t even play the game how its intended and flip the trading post-Still achieve anything they want.

Also, GW1 pvp actually took skill. Go watch some GvG videos that have a Ventrilo/teamspeak recording too.

Obsidian angel.9863:

Well doesn’t sound much different from GW2.
-its either Zerker or Gtfo
-Events are pretty much Zerg,zerg,zerg.
-Everything is to easy
-Theres people that sit there and don’t even play the game how its intended and flip the trading post-Still achieve anything they want.
Also, GW1 pvp actually took skill. Go watch some GvG videos that have a Ventrilo/teamspeak recording too.

What does “Zerker only” have to do with “go afk and let your heroes kill everything?” At least those “zerkers” you appear to hate have to touch their keyboards and play.

I agree with events… the greatest line of a commander in GW2 when their team can’t beat an event: “we need more people”. It’s funny how this is the ONLY excuse I ever hear when an event fails…

In both games, heck in most online games with player trading, you can bypass the game content and get what you want by playing the market, sad but true.

I don’t know, have you ever seen a video of a top PvP GW2 match (for example for the Tournament of Glory) with Teamspeak/Ventrilo recording?

maddoctor.2738:

Obsidian angel.9863:

Well doesn’t sound much different from GW2.
-its either Zerker or Gtfo
-Events are pretty much Zerg,zerg,zerg.
-Everything is to easy
-Theres people that sit there and don’t even play the game how its intended and flip the trading post-Still achieve anything they want.
Also, GW1 pvp actually took skill. Go watch some GvG videos that have a Ventrilo/teamspeak recording too.

What does “Zerker only” have to do with “go afk and let your heroes kill everything?” At least those “zerkers” you appear to hate have to touch their keyboards and play.

I agree with events… the greatest line of a commander in GW2 when their team can’t beat an event: “we need more people”. It’s funny how this is the ONLY excuse I ever hear when an event fails…

In both games, heck in most online games with player trading, you can bypass the game content and get what you want by playing the market, sad but true.

I don’t know, have you ever seen a video of a top PvP GW2 match (for example for the Tournament of Glory) with Teamspeak/Ventrilo recording?

Zerkers have to touch their keyboard to play? So events like champ farming really requires much effort to touch a keyboard? one second while i target the champion with a ranged weapon and just wait for it to slowly die. In the mean time i can watch a series.

But anyway, Yes i have watched top Pvp tournaments. Not with the teamspeak. But GW1 mechanics are more Complex in terms of “Skill” compared to GW2. Heres an example: Warriors in Guild wars 1 could only use 1 stance a time. Meaning if a warrior wanted to spike he’d have to pop Frenzy, make the spike and if he gets focused(Of course double damage) he better make sure he has another Stance ready or expect trash talk from your team mates from dying In frenzy. What does Guild wars 2 do with stances? Oh you can Pop them all at once, Long cool downs but its okay. You’re a warrior so you’re likely to win 1vX.

Not good enough? Alright here’s another example. Speaking GvG wise in Guild wars 1. We had Domination mesmers and Rangers. They don’t just spam their skills like a No brainer. You had a role(So lets speak about ranger role). Interupting key skills. It takes skill to watch the field and pay attention to animations and making sure you’re not wasting time on a crap skill and not on an Elite. You push, chase and snare. You harrass the flagger. You do that.

What does GW2 have in terms of Pvp? Nothing compared to that at all. 9/10 Tpvp games are bunker meta. 2 bunkers and rest damage/condi. That pretty much shows that all you have to do is rotate, make a call and focus a target. Not necessarily “Spam” their skills but in some what way, they are.

Obsidian angel.9863:

Not good enough? Alright here’s another example. Speaking GvG wise in Guild wars 1. We had Domination mesmers and Rangers. They don’t just spam their skills like a No brainer. You had a role(So lets speak about ranger role). Interupting key skills. It takes skill to watch the field and pay attention to animations and making sure you’re not wasting time on a crap skill and not on an Elite. You push, chase and snare. You harrass the flagger. You do that.

What does GW2 have in terms of Pvp? Nothing compared to that at all. 9/10 Tpvp games are bunker meta. 2 bunkers and rest damage/condi. That pretty much shows that all you have to do is rotate, make a call and focus a target. Not necessarily “Spam” their skills but in some what way, they are.

I’ve done my fair share of high end GvG matches in GW1 but I’ve never actually watched high end PVP matches in GW2, nor have I played any, so I can’t easily compare the two.

I loved playing Ranger interrupter in GW1, interrupting low casting (1/2) skills made people so mad with rage, it was priceless. The thing is, with the way skills were in GW1, players had a more focused role. In GW2 you have access to way more skills at the same time, which means players can fill more active roles, more variety. Of course, more skills means more spamming too.

GW1 pvp was more focused and specific, GW2 is more chaotic

Both of these games were truly amazingly done. I just love everything about it.
Storylines, the beautifuuuul themes, characters, art works, maps, and much more!
It’s even more fun to play with such a awesome community, (the best community I’ve ever seen during my gaming years among lots of online, multiplayer games), but of course there will and always be people who always want to destroy the fun from us all.

Either way, Guild Wars game(s) is the best online multiplayer game I’ve ever been played. And Anet and NCsoft should be proud to have created this masterwork together and they should aswell hold their heads up high, because of their work.
Love it! Love everything about this game.

I beg to differ… I don’t see anything amazing about Guild Wars 2.

Story
In Guild Wars 2 is not even that great. To even compare the two are like comparing Elder Scrolls Skyrim to Elder Scrolls Online… its not even close. GW1 story had so many depth and layers.

Combat
This is debatable in terms of what people prefer. However, one thing is evidently clear. Guild Wars 1 combat system was much more diverse and fun. Look at all the people these days that ragequit due to balancing changes. How many players do you know quit Guild Wars 1 because of balancing? There were an infinite number of builds.. even if they nerfed your favorite build there were so many other ways to play your class it didn’t really matter.

Apparition.1576:

I beg to differ… I don’t see anything amazing about Guild Wars 2.

Story
In Guild Wars 2 is not even that great. To even compare the two are like comparing Elder Scrolls Skyrim to Elder Scrolls Online… its not even close. GW1 story had so many depth and layers.

Combat
This is debatable in terms of what people prefer. However, one thing is evidently clear. Guild Wars 1 combat system was much more diverse and fun. Look at all the people these days that ragequit due to balancing changes. How many players do you know quit Guild Wars 1 because of balancing? There were an infinite number of builds.. even if they nerfed your favorite build there were so many other ways to play your class it didn’t really matter.

There are many things (imho)GW2 has done better. To name a few off the top of my head: wardrobe system, dodging, jumping, underwater combat/exploration, BLTC, multi-toon support, etc. Granted, not all would give these high priority but they are there.

As someone who loves both GW1 and GW2 (like many of you do), I feel like I have a pretty objective view of both.

Guild Wars 1 was very fun and the replay value was immense. Guilds seemed like they were more closely knit. In GW1, when you wanted someone to help you, there was one clear goal in mind and it was what you were aiming for. In GW2, it kind of seems like when you’re helping someone out there are so many things that can sidetrack you because quests are more integrated with the environment(not necessarily a bad thing).
AB was more fun than WvW is right now. Heroes made it possible to not rely on others if you didn’t want to. Hard mode made my second play through of all the PvE content just as enjoyable, if not as enjoyable, as my first run through on normal.

GW1 definitely had it’s problems though. For starters, the combat did feel really ‘block’-y with specific timers on everything, not being able to move when using most skills, and there was just a general formula to most builds (press these buttons to nuke, use these 2 other buttons for situational times, and use this last one as a res).

The main gripe I had with GW1, which is why I started looking for other games before GW2 came out, was the fact that there seemed to be a formula for everything(this goes back to the builds having a general formula). Want to destroy everything in general? Just run your standard 3 nukers, 1 tank, 2 heals, 2 minion master set of heroes. This specific instance has a boss who does tons of dps and usually wipes your party? Just take away a nuker and add an interrupt Mesmer. The run took longer in general, but now combat for your side was much safer. Yeah, there were variations to this set-up, but they didn’t deviate far from this layout. Don’t tell me that this didn’t work either because I pretty much beat everything in Hard Mode by doing this exact strat and I know of many others who did the same.

Specific elite instances and pvp were just as gimmicky. Use this skill at this spot at this time. Do this series of events exactly like the other 100 times you’ve done the instance. Have the tank pull this mob, wait here, everyone spam the same skill until mob is dead. Everything just became so cookie cutter it drove me nuts. It could be argued that PvP wasn’t so cookie cutter like, but in HA people would be asking for specific builds to join the team, in AB you just used the most meta build on the build website, in Guild Wars there were builds you could copy as well. Overall, sure there were other builds that were viable, but the best builds were already theory crafted and implemented. Any other variation was a skill or two which was aimed at a specific niche the enemy might run.

I won’t take long on GW2, but it does seem more grind-y with the DR aspect. I may not spend hours in the same area grinding, but now I’m required to log in every single day if I want to be the most efficient with the economic aspect.

GW2 however, has much more fluid combat and I like the open world environment. It does seem a lot more immersive.