Guild Wars 2

What ppl mean by end game is vertical progression in gear… simple as that .
Someone who spent 500+hours will surely wants to 3-4 hit someone who spent 50h in the game . That’s how we learned MMORPGS are played , and we ware playing for the last years : get max lvl > grind best gear > pwn ppl with worst gear > massive ego boost > multiply e-kitten by amount of X . Altho ANet told us there will be no gear progession , ppl ware still hopeing there will be some kind of gear factor .Skins are great , but i want my gg awesome looking rifle to do a bit more dmg then some piece of wood that looks like rifle right? Altho ANet told us there will be no trinity , u see every second topic is ppl whine about getting the trinity back . Why ? COuse thats how we played MMORPG’s last 10 years .

And that’s why I don’t play other MMOs.

Guild Wars 2 isn’t your typical MMO. Why is this still a surprise to some people? If having no gear progression makes people upset, maybe they should go play a different game.

I could care less about gear progression, I just want fun distractions and right now GW2 is horribly short on them. And the few that we have are dragged down by bad respawn rates, overly packed creatures and lame difficulty levels.

I want an endgame that works – please fix Orr (bugs)
fix hacking and transfers in WvW (get rid of pve)
Balance spvp
Give proper rewards for dungeons.
Maybe fix the bot and legendary issue but hey the first few would be nice.
I dont even need new content just stuff that works.
Please and Thank you anet
We are cavemen we just have lights and grunt in sentences.

GW2 isn’t the typical MMO and that’s what makes it different from what we had to endure for the past 7 years. Clones. An army of clones, sometimes pushing it to a simple skin over the piece they came from (the game that should not be named).

It is not perfect, it is sometimes disappointing, but all in all, I like its lore, its pros and cons and I have a good time with my friends on it. That’s what matters, to me at least.

The day GW2 starts clonifying (does that word even exist?)… I’ll stop playing it like I’ve stopped playing the other one. So please guys, stop asking for more of what you have been used to during the last decade.

Change is never a bad thing! This game is fresh new and has a good quality level for a fresh MMO. Yeah, it’s full of bugs, but honestly, they ALL are. Let’s give ANet a chance to show us what they are made of !

Verticle progression would be a start. Hell any progression is better that what’s there now. There isn’t even horizontal progression. There is a sort of cosmetic grind, but even this seems tacked on and very limited.

There will never be vertical progression. However, with horizontal progression there should still be some sort of goal. This was apparently in Guild Wars. In Guild Wars 2…not so much. I won’t dive too deep into specifics because I’ll get flamed like always, but basically ArenaNet needs to give players a reason to get new armor sets and weapons, as well as an incentive to hop around the world gathering drops and loot.

HEHO.2109:

What ppl mean by end game is vertical progression in gear… simple as that .

Glad I’m not ppl then… But a person who simply doesn’t care about vertical progression in gear.

I rather like the fact that GW2 doesn’t have that vertical progression. Now that I finally reached lvl80 (I would have been fine if the max was again 20 btw) I can really look for the nice looking armour, without worrying about if it has max stats or not.

Though, there isn’t enough horizontal progression. The amount of armour and weapon skins in the game are a bit on the low side… Yes, there are a lot of them, but in case of armours, 2/3rd you can’t wear because they’re a different armour class. The same about weapons (though, I don’t know the percentage you can’t use).

And I love some of the light armours which my ranger will never be able to get…

(if one wish would be granted, it would be the opportunity to transmute looks from all armour weights to all other armour weights…)

I’ll just leave this here

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-endgame-reimagined/

Can I has endgame in chess where I’d start with 4 queens because I’ve been playing for over 20 years?

Can I has endgame in golf where Tiger Woods starts with a handicap of +5 because he’s one of the best?

Can I has endgame in counter-strike source where I start every round with AWP because I played more than you?

Can I has endgame in DOTA where I start with 3000 gold because I played since aeon of strife?

Can I has endgame in football where Real Madrid has 30 players on the field and use hands because it’s the most successful club?

Or maybe we can actually make competitive games competitive because you’re a good player, not because you played longer. Thanks for not ruining GW2. We’re not playing all other MMOs because they have it wrong.

marnick.4305:

Can I has endgame in chess where I’d start with 4 queens because I’ve been playing for over 20 years?

Can I has endgame in golf where Tiger Woods starts with a handicap of +5 because he’s one of the best?

Can I has endgame in counter-strike source where I start every round with AWP because I played more than you?

Can I has endgame in DOTA where I start with 3000 gold because I played since aeon of strife?

Can I has endgame in football where Real Madrid has 30 players on the field and use hands because it’s the most successful club?

Or maybe we can actually make competitive games competitive because you’re a good player, not because you played longer. Thanks for not ruining GW2. We’re not playing all other MMOs because they have it wrong.

Too bad none of these are mmorpgs…. That’s the problem people thought they were buying an mmorpg…

First of all after spending 150ish hours in 50 or so day on my acc ( getting the exotic set and wep i wanted , and i invis . thief take our full party down on his own ) i decided to take a brake couse i know this is how the game is ment to be played . After 2 weeks i checked the forum to see if there is something new . Same as 2 weeks ago every 3rd or 5th topic is about the same old same old "give us raids , give us trinity , bla bla bla ) . I just wanted to sum it up in 3 words " vertical gear progression " , couse obviously ppl dont want to say it directly , idk why , maybe couse they be labeled as “WOWfanboys” ( altho i never played wow yey ) . About the thief thing idk is that a bug or thats how he was ment to be played ( if so IMBA ) couse i won quite a few 2v1 eaven 3v1 with my engi , so that was a deal breaker for me . And u can see that i write "altho ANet told us " , i knew in what was i getting into when i bought the game , but the ppl who open those topics sure didnt .

Rhyse.8176:

I’ll just leave this here

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-endgame-reimagined/

“Sure, once your character reaches max level, we’ve created new and interesting ways”

This line is in question.

marnick.4305:

Can I has endgame in chess where I’d start with 4 queens because I’ve been playing for over 20 years?

Can I has endgame in golf where Tiger Woods starts with a handicap of +5 because he’s one of the best?

Can I has endgame in counter-strike source where I start every round with AWP because I played more than you?

Can I has endgame in DOTA where I start with 3000 gold because I played since aeon of strife?

Can I has endgame in football where Real Madrid has 30 players on the field and use hands because it’s the most successful club?

Or maybe we can actually make competitive games competitive because you’re a good player, not because you played longer. Thanks for not ruining GW2. We’re not playing all other MMOs because they have it wrong.

like bcbully said , none of them i MMORPG’s …

bcbully.7289:

Rhyse.8176:

I’ll just leave this here

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-endgame-reimagined/

“Sure, once your character reaches max level, we’ve created new and interesting ways”

This line is in question.

Actually bcbully I agree with you. There is no real purpose to this game.

You want an example of a MMO without gear progression?
GW1

Dunann.5761:

GW2 isn’t the typical MMO and that’s what makes it different from what we had to endure for the past 7 years. Clones. An army of clones, sometimes pushing it to a simple skin over the piece they came from (the game that should not be named).

It is not perfect, it is sometimes disappointing, but all in all, I like its lore, its pros and cons and I have a good time with my friends on it. That’s what matters, to me at least.

The day GW2 starts clonifying (does that word even exist?)… I’ll stop playing it like I’ve stopped playing the other one. So please guys, stop asking for more of what you have been used to during the last decade.

Change is never a bad thing! This game is fresh new and has a good quality level for a fresh MMO. Yeah, it’s full of bugs, but honestly, they ALL are. Let’s give ANet a chance to show us what they are made of !

GW2 is it clone. The only thing they didn’t take from the other clones was tiered gear progression and holy trinity but everything else is the same. You’re still farming and grinding to progress as you need gold for pretty much everything (travel, repairs, consumables, and even gear).

Don’t get it wrong, GW2 is still a theme park MMO which means the grind and endgame lies within the simple standards of all other theme park mmos. And the choices of things to do in this game aren’t many.

Guild Wars 1 didn’t have gear progression past max level…

I wish people stopped comparing GW2 with games like SWTOR, Rift and Aion… Compare it to GW1.

Tosha Daydreamer.9251:

You want an example of a MMO without gear progression?
GW1

If GW1 was ever considered an MMO=) Might as well call TF2 or Diablo an MMO if GW is.

bcbully.7289:

marnick.4305:

Can I has endgame in chess where I’d start with 4 queens because I’ve been playing for over 20 years?

Can I has endgame in golf where Tiger Woods starts with a handicap of +5 because he’s one of the best?

Can I has endgame in counter-strike source where I start every round with AWP because I played more than you?

Can I has endgame in DOTA where I start with 3000 gold because I played since aeon of strife?

Can I has endgame in football where Real Madrid has 30 players on the field and use hands because it’s the most successful club?

Or maybe we can actually make competitive games competitive because you’re a good player, not because you played longer. Thanks for not ruining GW2. We’re not playing all other MMOs because they have it wrong.

Too bad none of these are mmorpgs…. That’s the problem people thought they were buying an mmorpg…

They are all competitive games. As such they are perfectly comparable to any game profiling itself as an esport.

What people want when buying an mmorpg is a living world to get lost in, extensive visual character customization and an ability to live your story. They want to become a hero in a world needing heroes.

Most get duped into gear grind…

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

Guild Wars 1 didn’t have gear progression past max level…

I wish people stopped comparing GW2 with games like SWTOR, Rift and Aion… Compare it to GW1.

GW2 lacks quite a few things when comparing to GW1.
Pvp variety is one thing, which is a MAJOR part of these game’s ‘endgame’.

GW2 has things GW1 didn’t have, but if you compare: don’t just compare what is good for your argument, compare the bad too.

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

Guild Wars 1 didn’t have gear progression past max level…

I wish people stopped comparing GW2 with games like SWTOR, Rift and Aion… Compare it to GW1.

From what I hear GW1 had really good horizontal progression through abilities. This game has none of that. People have said that GW2 is more like those others than GW1.

It cracks me up that Anet chose not to invest in a vertical progression end game system, most likely due to ongoing cost, then marketed it as if they were doing something new.

Swtor was destroyed because of a lack of endgame by the same people who support GW2, and yet swtor had/has more endgame content that GW2.

marnick.4305:

bcbully.7289:

marnick.4305:

Can I has endgame in chess where I’d start with 4 queens because I’ve been playing for over 20 years?

Can I has endgame in golf where Tiger Woods starts with a handicap of +5 because he’s one of the best?

Can I has endgame in counter-strike source where I start every round with AWP because I played more than you?

Can I has endgame in DOTA where I start with 3000 gold because I played since aeon of strife?

Can I has endgame in football where Real Madrid has 30 players on the field and use hands because it’s the most successful club?

Or maybe we can actually make competitive games competitive because you’re a good player, not because you played longer. Thanks for not ruining GW2. We’re not playing all other MMOs because they have it wrong.

Too bad none of these are mmorpgs…. That’s the problem people thought they were buying an mmorpg…

They are all competitive games. As such they are perfectly comparable to any game profiling itself as an esport.

What people want when buying an mmorpg is a living world to get lost in, extensive visual character customization and an ability to live your story. They want to become a hero in a world needing heroes.

Most get duped into gear grind…

most get duped into grinding in Orr too you know.
The intention of this game is good, but it hasn’t reached it’s goal.
Too many max levels don’t go out in that big world, just a few find a reason to do so.

The gear grind is just as big in this game, if not bigger.
Not for stats obviously: you can compete without.

But as an incentive, the gear grind is worse than WoW where you grind while doing the very activity you need the gear for. If you need pvp gear stats, you do pvp, if you need raid gear, you start on LFR and move up while raiding.

In this game you can grind for the skins, and all these grinds take a very long time.
So I don’t think the argument about grinding stands.
GW2 created their own optional grind, but the sad part is that this ‘optional’ grind is about the only incentive the game will offer you.

Too few really immerse into the big world at 80 I’m afraid. Luckily many do, but most seem to be grinding gear or pvp ranks that again offer only gear.

@bcbully “Too bad none of these are mmorpgs…. That’s the problem people thought they were buying an mmorpg…”

For the love of god I don’t know where you people come from.

Vertical gear-progression is not inherent to mmorpg’s

It’s not. It’s not. It’s not.

It’s optional.

Yeah but Chess has the hardest PvP with the highest skill cap, and PvE is actually much tougher. Deep Blue beat Kasparov by a point… in the late 90s, computers have evolved a lot since then.

Progression.

I laugh everytime I hear that word in video games.

Progression directly translates to the following (in case you were wondering)…

Hi, I’m a developer who makes video games. In order to reduce my cost of operations and increase profit margins; I’m going to create content very quickly with a small staff. The beauty of all this is that the playerbase will have to keep repeating the same content over and over again for a +1 to thier stats. Instead of making future content more difficult and innovative, I’m just going to increase NPC damage output and health pool in order to enforce the repetitive grind.

I am a genius.

Obsidian.1328:

@bcbully “Too bad none of these are mmorpgs…. That’s the problem people thought they were buying an mmorpg…”

For the love of god I don’t know where you people come from.

Vertical gear-progression is not inherent to mmorpg’s

It’s not. It’s not. It’s not.

It’s optional.

Cut the crap. Stop making statements then arguing against them (strawman). No vertical progression? Fine, make a kitten ton of horizontal progression through abilities. Make a kitten ton of cosmetic progression. TSW did all three. To bad the pvp is lacking just as much as GW2’s progression.

As things stand, as you can see from the number one complaint with this game, GW2’s progression is lacking.

I think, from my GW2 noob PoV, having played WoW for 4.5 years, that by endgame content people mean several things:
1. once you completed all the available challenging content for your chars, you’re expecting content that introduces new challenges. This concept often misread as “in order to make the future content more challenging, give me better gear and make that content impossible for certain levels of gear”.
2. I think this is more important for a vast range of people nowadays. Those who have put in many hours into the game want to see them benefit something over those who haven’t. I remember several people stopped playing WoW since acquiring flying mounts became easy for other players. They didn’t care they have mounts, they were bothered by other people having flying mounts 2.
Looking at that in GW2, this game is full of it, allowing players to play with each other regardless of level caps rather than making all wait to level 80 to play certain content.
The ones who like to see others work hard to get to some content would probably like so see explore mode dungeons restricted to level 80, like the heroic content in WoW.
If you like it or not really depends on what type of person you are.

bcbully.7289:

(…)

As things stand, as you can see from the number one complaint with this game, GW2’s progression is lacking.

a) To me this only shows the effect that other MMO’s had on the players

b) Next “big” stuff coming in a bit over 2 weeks

Which you probably won’t like since it likely will just be stuff to do and not to “progress”.

The PvP crowd should be happy right? Because they want a fair competitive environment. Like the examples above, no one gets an advantage other than experience just because he has done it for longer.

I believe a lot of this was anticipated. There will always be reactions like this when you dare change things. Eventually it will even out if the formula works.

I for one am happy that I don’t have to enter the never ending cycle of the next tier of gear, instead I can do whatever I feel like without this gnawing feeling that I’m missing out if I don’t do X now for 100 times or raise Y to Z for C.

@bcbully I wasn’t being snarky. And I don’t know what you mean by “strawman.” You complained about buying an mmo that didn’t have gear-progression and I simply stated that wasn’t part of this game.

@omerk If you stop playing a game because someone else got something easier than you did, you might need to do some self-reflection. You don’t need to have rare stuff to feel better about yourself. :/

I will concede that some associate endgame to PvE, and possibly even vertical progression type PvE… but there’s also the idea that endgame PvE isn’t really there because no challenges really present themselves other than farming for skins. Dungeon loot was supposed to be a symbol of Prestige… there’s really little challenge presented in those dungeons except in the story modes where the majority of bosses actually have interesting mechanics where I really do need to coordinate through skill synergies offered throughout the party.

HEHO.2109:

What ppl mean by end game is vertical progression in gear… simple as that .
Someone who spent 500+hours will surely wants to 3-4 hit someone who spent 50h in the game. That’s how we learned MMORPGS are played , and we ware playing for the last years : get max lvl > grind best gear > pwn ppl with worst gear > massive ego boost > multiply e-kitten by amount of X . Altho ANet told us there will be no gear progession , ppl ware still hopeing there will be some kind of gear factor .Skins are great , but i want my gg awesome looking rifle to do a bit more dmg then some piece of wood that looks like rifle right? Altho ANet told us there will be no trinity , u see every second topic is ppl whine about getting the trinity back . Why ? COuse thats how we played MMORPG’s last 10 years .

This guy only wants to play video games that are managed like a socialist country and “fair” to everyone. Listen to him talk begrudgingly about what others had in other mmos and their “massive ego boost” when he is clearly seething with bitterness and its really his ego that is bruised and needs coddling through fairness.

When he says “thats how we’ve learned to play mmos over the last ten years” he really means we’ve learned to play them somewhat competitively in varying degrees and his fragile ego can’t stand competition in something as important as a video game.

Its this exact mentality that has lead to the dumbed down ruined state of mmos today.

I don’t mind the “entry fee” for dungeons being uniform in the sense that I only need to be a certain level rather than have attunements or certain minimum gear requirements… but at the same time, there should be legitimate challenges. Not every dungeon route has to be the masochist’s delight… but at least have them and offer some carrots at the end (even if they are just skins).

bcbully.7289:

Verticle progression would be a start. Hell any progression is better that what’s there now. There isn’t even horizontal progression. There is a sort of cosmetic grind, but even this seems tacked on and very limited.

Plenty of other games out there that offer that. The cosmetic grind has been been around since Guild Wars Prophecies. And it has worked wonderfully for the last 7 years so why change it to be like every other mmo currently available? Explain why its tacked on and limited? I don’t see that at all. It gets rather ridiculous when people keep asking for this game to change when its been advertise and known to be this way for a couple of years now.

Scourge.4317:

bcbully.7289:

Verticle progression would be a start. Hell any progression is better that what’s there now. There isn’t even horizontal progression. There is a sort of cosmetic grind, but even this seems tacked on and very limited.

Plenty of other games out there that offer that. The cosmetic grind has been been around since Guild Wars Prophecies. And it has worked wonderfully for the last 7 years so why change it to be like every other mmo currently available? Explain why its tacked on and limited? I don’t see that at all. It gets rather ridiculous when people keep asking for this game to change when its been advertise and known to be this way for a couple of years now.

I mean a lot of the skins are locked away in the mystic forge… and the dungeon sets are more of a grind than real challenge to get. I don’t think that was true in GW1.

I’d rather my end game be – They add new stuff for me to do every other month.

Seriously, if they keep up the trend after the November update, it would be pretty stellar. It would be no small feat, that’s for sure.

Stop saying GW2 is better or worse than other MMO’s based on the vertical vs. horizontal progression mentality. On that note, stop comparing it based on the holy trinity either being here or not. GW2 is different because of that – not better, not worse.

Some people will like it better than other iterations of the MMO and some will like it worse. I personally prefer apples to oranges. Should all the orange eaters learn that they have been doing it wrong all these years? No. Get over it.

Just because these games are in the same genre (that being the MMORPG) does not mean that every single aspect can be compared as a tangible pro or con. If you crave vertical progression, play another game and get it. If you like the casual pace of horizontal progression, GW2 is just right for you.

I hope no heads explode here….but what if I told you that you could play both?

Bruno Sardine.2907:

Scourge.4317:

bcbully.7289:

Verticle progression would be a start. Hell any progression is better that what’s there now. There isn’t even horizontal progression. There is a sort of cosmetic grind, but even this seems tacked on and very limited.

Plenty of other games out there that offer that. The cosmetic grind has been been around since Guild Wars Prophecies. And it has worked wonderfully for the last 7 years so why change it to be like every other mmo currently available? Explain why its tacked on and limited? I don’t see that at all. It gets rather ridiculous when people keep asking for this game to change when its been advertise and known to be this way for a couple of years now.

I mean a lot of the skins are locked away in the mystic forge… and the dungeon sets are more of a grind than real challenge to get. I don’t think that was true in GW1.

There are plenty of armor sets in GW1 that require lots of time to get. Obsidian being one of the most time consuming sets. Just like it takes lots of time to get legendary and mystic forge items. Well i guess luck would be more appropriate for some of the mystic items but you get what i mean i hope!

Yes OP you are right that GW2 lacks end game progression, but it does not have to be gear at all. The idea that “gear” is the end game is stupid. There are more ways then just gear to have end game progression for a character.

End game progression is something that this game is seriously lacking, A.Net needs to do something about it but it does not have to be a gear thing. They could have raids for that drop cool skins. They could have a leveling system at 80 ala Paragon Levels in D3 or Planar Attunement in RIFT. They could come up with a ranking system.

SPvP has a good character progression system with rewards. Why A.Net did not bother do similar systems for WvW is beyond me.

Scourge.4317:

There are plenty of armor sets in GW1 that require lots of time to get. Obsidian being one of the most time consuming sets. Just like it takes lots of time to get legendary and mystic forge items. Well i guess luck would be more appropriate for some of the mystic items but you get what i mean i hope!

End game does not have to be a grind. That is one thing that is really bad with GW2 atm. The only PvE end game is grind out crafting materials to make legendaries or grind tokens in a dungeon to get gear sets. They seriously lack any sort of organized team based end game progression ala raids. Its hurting their game.

They have 5 man team based end game for PvP with a nice ranking system. WvW offers no end game progression what so ever. PvE ditto.

A.Net needs to realize in order to keep playing they need end game character progression. It does not have to be gear based though. That mentality does need to change.

Mog.1589:

It does not have to be gear based though. That mentality does need to change.

No it doesn’t. The mentality is the reason people like what they like and don’t like what they don’t like. I agree that, if you are making the decision to play GW2, you do need to change your mentality if you believe their should be gear progression. That is just simply not in this game’s meta. It will never be.

However, if people are simply voicing that they don’t like that there is no gear progression once you hit 80 exotics, that is totally valid. It is moot and frivolous, but it is still valid. Those people should simply play other games.

HEHO.2109:

Why ? COuse thats how we played MMORPG’s last 10 years .

And before CDs how many years did we listen to music on vinyl? …………..before we had cars how many years did we use horse and buggy? The traditional MMO ‘end-game’ of grinding gear until new gear makes current gear obsolete only to do it all over and over and over…… again is old, tiresome and obsolete.

While IMO Guild Wars 2 does lacks a challenging and addictive endgame……..the solution is not to force it to have the same ol same ol all the other games have had for decades.

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

Guild Wars 1 didn’t have gear progression past max level…

I wish people stopped comparing GW2 with games like SWTOR, Rift and Aion… Compare it to GW1.

Why would anyone in their right mind compare GW2 to GW1? They are NOTHING alike.

inb4 lore

I spent 30 minutes last night helping someone get to someone that needed rezing. Not sure why he didn’t just release….But I realized I wanted to help these guys. Then I realized I care nothing about gear etc. Game is different, and I think its better than where we came from over the last 15 years.

Animus.6073:

Mog.1589:

It does not have to be gear based though. That mentality does need to change.

No it doesn’t. The mentality is the reason people like what they like and don’t like what they don’t like. I agree that, if you are making the decision to play GW2, you do need to change your mentality if you believe their should be gear progression. That is just simply not in this game’s meta. It will never be.

However, if people are simply voicing that they don’t like that there is no gear progression once you hit 80 exotics, that is totally valid. It is moot and frivolous, but it is still valid. Those people should simply play other games.

You are correct if you want gear progression go play WoW or RIFT etc… However I do still feel GW2 lacks progression period at 80. There is no carrot on a stick other then insane grinds for skins. That is fine if they want skins as the rewards at 80 I am down with that, however I do want some character progression systems at 80.

The SPvP rank systems works fine for that and is a good example of character progression. They just need to add that system or a similar system to WvW and PvE. They also need organized team play at 80 with raids. The lack of them seriously is hurting PvE in this game at 80.

I don’t think you necessarily need raids… you have tons of paths, make them more interesting. Have your “cheese path” but also have the “insanity path” for others. Cheese path with standard rewards, “insanity path” with insane rewards (tons of tokens, boosters, mystic coins, exotics, whatever).

This line of thought that because other games work a certain way that therefore every game should work that way is destructive and exemplifies everything wrong with modern video games.

Let’s look at Dark Souls here. Dark Souls instantly kills you multiple times through your first playthrough. It makes you go through insanely difficult and tough to figure out encounters. You die repeatedly through each playthrough. There is no option for difficulty. You’re not told what to do, except through dialogue you have to go out of your way to find or item descriptions. Becoming human opens you up to be viscous attacked, and in rare cases, having your hard earned humanity stolen.

All of the aforementioned things are counter to the standard logic of gaming. Every single one of them is the exact opposite of what the majority thinks it wants. But, if it didn’t have those things, Dark Souls would not be half the game it is. These differences that it has make it stand out from other games. It has made a nice place for itself within the market, catering to certain types of people.

Guild Wars 2 may not have what most people are used to. It may not have what people want. But, it offers a different way of playing MMOs. You don’t have to have no life to be strong. You can play with the big boys from day 1.

Guild Wars 2 is not for everybody. If you can’t play and enjoy yourself without gear progression, that is fine. No rude intentions here, but go play a game that you enjoy. Most other MMOs out there have raids, gear progression and that sort of stuff—play them. But please, leave this game alone for those of us who enjoy the core of what it is. Sure, there will always be room for improvement. But, I never want to see gear progression, raids, holy trinity, or anything. Other games revolve around those things, why should every single MMO in existence have to as well?

Gear progression is only an endgame if WoW was your first MMO.

My endgame is PvP with rewards to keep improving your character. they have WvW, now they just need the reward system. Im not talking about gear, im talking about stats increases, skills and abilities, chance to crit, hitpoints, ect…. Look at DAOC with its realm ranks. people play the same characters for 5 years. why? because you can keep making them better. the beauty of that system was 99.999 % never achieved the cap. points became few and far inbwteen but you kept goin because you were always improving, even if it was very little.

No, it is not “as simple as that”

My favorite endgame was DAOC, and that game had no gear progression at all (pre-ToA, which ruined it). You could get the best items possible, just from crafting. And crafting took time and gold, but nothing like what crafting in GW2 requires.

There are all different ways to do an endgame. All it means is giving players goals to work towards that are on a much longer, much more shallow curve, than the level-up part of the game. Rewards that are minor compared to gaining levels, but at least they’re something, so that playing the game post-cap doesn’t feel pointless.

A good endgame can add a new dimension to the whole game, so that levelling up even feels more rewarding – because you’re working to be part of something bigger than just yourself, such as RvR. WvW is not filling that role at all, because its so marginalized by its irrelevance to the rest of the game as a whole.