Guild Wars 2

Before this game came out, I recall reading something someone from ArenaNet had written about ogres or centaurs just standing out in a field picking daises and how in Guild Wars 2 these mobs would actually be doing something. For the most part, this game delivers on that. There aren’t many mobs just standing around in the world picking daisies. But I got to Orr and this changed. There are undead mobs literally everywhere. I understand that Orr is supposed to be a dangerous place, full of undead, but it seems ridiculous for these undead mobs to be spaced out in a grid pattern throughout the entirety of the three zones. I guess you could say it breaks immersion, though I’m not someone who is normally big on immersion. I guess my gripe is that the game does such a good job of hiding this throughout the rest of the game, but Orr just seems like ArenaNet got lazy. Am I alone in this opinion? Does anyone have a counter argument?

I think a bunch of zombies standing around in Orr makes sense, personally. It is their home territory, and they are a legion of the shambling undead.

Have to agree with DusK. Zombies standing around seems actually to be kinda accurate. :p

NC Soft only put any effort into the first 60 levels. 60-80 zones are pure laziness, and uninspired

DusK.3849:

I think a bunch of zombies standing around in Orr makes sense, personally. It is their home territory, and they are a legion of the shambling undead.

Zombies standing around might make sense (depending on the ecology), but would they stand around in a grid-like pattern? That seems unlikely as nothing in our universe does so. Matter tends to clump together. Living things also tend to group together. And while I know this is fantasy, for the most part Tyria obeys the laws of our universe (it appears to have the same 4 fundamental forces, gravity, electromagnetism, weak and strong nuclear forces), magic not withstanding.

Foreplayz (troll), this is not the suggestion forum. If I was offering a solution, I would have posted the topic there. Instead, I am merely interested in discussing the matter.

Thank you for the response, Anthony. My response to that would be that I haven’t recognized the inhabitants mindlessly continuing the tasks they performed in their old lives. Maybe it’s happening, but it hasn’t been apparent to me. If it was apparent to me, that would be great, because I think it’s a great idea. I guess there’s just something about how it’s presented that I’m not getting.

Regardless of lore and only focusing on the gameplay experience, Orr is the only area where I’ve gotten frustrated just trying to move around in the world. I’ve found only three ways to get around the map in these end-game zones and none are really ideal: 1) run to where you want to go, ignoring enemies (which is kind of silly lore-wise, right?), 2) stop and fight every single enemy in your path, taking forever to get to where you’re going, or 3) just find a zerg and follow it until it breaks up.

The problem with Orr is that there’s no breathing room to really take in the zone. I just feel like I’m either running around like an idiot with a trail of zombies following me or I’m killing a bunch of trash mobs just to get to a mithril node. I don’t much care about lore when it makes the end-game PvE experience so tedious.

Shostie.6435:

Thank you for the response, Anthony. My response to that would be that I haven’t recognized the inhabitants mindlessly continuing the tasks they performed in their old lives. Maybe it’s happening, but it hasn’t been apparent to me. If it was apparent to me, that would be great, because I think it’s a great idea. I guess there’s just something about how it’s presented that I’m not getting.

There’s lots of old “Risen Noble/Servant/Farmer/Miner” guys that are running around doing fairly mundane things.

Which is incredibly absurd and sort of eerie because they’re all undead now.

Illushia.3721:

Shostie.6435:

Thank you for the response, Anthony. My response to that would be that I haven’t recognized the inhabitants mindlessly continuing the tasks they performed in their old lives. Maybe it’s happening, but it hasn’t been apparent to me. If it was apparent to me, that would be great, because I think it’s a great idea. I guess there’s just something about how it’s presented that I’m not getting.

There’s lots of old “Risen Noble/Servant/Farmer/Miner” guys that are running around doing fairly mundane things.

Which is incredibly absurd and sort of eerie because they’re all undead now.

I think it’s great that they exist. The only question I would have is why don’t I notice them? Is it because I’m too busy fighting all of the other mobs in the zone to notice? Or as another poster mentioned, is it because I’m to focused on running through the zone with a train of zombies behind me to notice? I think these might be somewhat responsible for the issue because I have noticed the details in other zones (which is one of the reasons I love this game so much).

I just don’t understand why they gave up on Hearts in these zones I like doing those actually.

And what’s up with the lack of undead charr in the zone? In the prophecies manuscrip it says that the charr even reached the gates of Arah yet i only found some in the Straits of Devastation along with the random undead asura and norn.

I just hope the first expansion (or even better, the first “content pack”) we have new zones that are NOT gross, annoying (omg annoying), undead wastelands. 2 weeks @ 80 and I loathe going to Orr to do anything – Frostgorge Sound is nice though

Orr is not suppose to be kessex hills or the beautiful snowy mountains, orr is orr, it’s full of undead and everywhere is unpleasant, if you don’t like it then oh well, maybe wait till the next expansion.

As a thief playing solo i always dread going there, but i don’t mind, once i’m there i’m ready to kickkitten and finishing up the zone for 100% completion.

Right well, seeing as Orr’s not meant to be pleasant…I don’t have any problem with the way I constantly feel under threat while I’m there. That’s kind of the point of it.

I hate Orr as a zone, mobs are way to close together and it’s a real pia if you’re solo. I have stopped playing GW2 now because of this ONE zone.

I get what Anet is trying to do with this zone but for one putting mobs all over the place doesn’t make it “so i feel under constant threat” it just makes it a BIG GRIND to get to one place to another.

I was wondering about the lack of undead charr in Orr as well. I know they were there and like someone said they even reached the gates of Arah but when you get to Orr there is a lack of undead Charr. Also, there are a lot of mobs. In other zones you kinda have more breathing room to run around. In Orr you can’t really do that.

I still love Orr as a zone though. I do wish there were hearts but meh, whatever. I love the zones lore and running around it.

I have no issue’s making my way through the zone. There is beathing room you just have to know the right paths. Now I am not saying it isn’t a valid complaint, but the area fits. Yes I prefer pretty landscapes vs ones filled with bath salt sniffing, face eatting zombies.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

As someone who worked extremely hard on one of the Orrian maps, I can tell you that DusK has the most accurate comment.

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From a lore perspective, the risen continent was once a living nation full of all sorts sorts of people and creatures. Now corrupted by the undead dragon, most of them walk the land as monsters. But you’ll still see a lot of the sentient inhabitants mindlessly continuing on the tasks they performed in their old lives. Some of them farm and mine, others lie around and weep in agony.

The coral soldiers, on the other hand, are more direct servants of the elder dragon. They take a more active role in defending the continent, so you should see them patrolling, standing guard, attacking players, etc.

Is there anything in the lore that explains why the shambling, rotting corpses run 2-3 times as fast as a player?
What about half of them wielding anchors that they magically use to pull anyone running by?

I just wish the mobs there dropped a little extra $$$ so I could actually get some decent upgrades. The karma items, at least for light, are all Pre/Vit/Tough that I can find. Yeah, cause I want to crit a lot but not do any damage.

I hate trying to farm mats in those zones just because of how close the mobs are. They are either ranged or have pull abilities to ensure I can’t actually get away. And is it just me or does it seem like the agro radius and reset range is a hell of a lot closer/longer than any of the other zones?

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

As someone who worked extremely hard on one of the Orrian maps, I can tell you that DusK has the most accurate comment.

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From a lore perspective, the risen continent was once a living nation full of all sorts sorts of people and creatures. Now corrupted by the undead dragon, most of them walk the land as monsters. But you’ll still see a lot of the sentient inhabitants mindlessly continuing on the tasks they performed in their old lives. Some of them farm and mine, others lie around and weep in agony.

The coral soldiers, on the other hand, are more direct servants of the elder dragon. They take a more active role in defending the continent, so you should see them patrolling, standing guard, attacking players, etc.

Hmm since you worked on the zone could you explain to us why the orrians had an obsession for circular structures? Or was it just so the area has a more “alien” look (which it certainly did) ?

I think they could take a few of those shambling corpses out of the more ‘populated’ areas.

And taking the respawns down a couple notches would be nice. ><

Illushia.3721:

I think they could take a few of those shambling corpses out of the more ‘populated’ areas.

And taking the respawns down a couple notches would be nice. ><

its the heart of enemy territory, its supposed to be packed with mobs, you can solo through carefully, but best to run with a group.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

As someone who worked extremely hard on one of the Orrian maps, I can tell you that DusK has the most accurate comment.

More info that might spoil...

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From a lore perspective, the risen continent was once a living nation full of all sorts sorts of people and creatures. Now corrupted by the undead dragon, most of them walk the land as monsters. But you’ll still see a lot of the sentient inhabitants mindlessly continuing on the tasks they performed in their old lives. Some of them farm and mine, others lie around and weep in agony.

The coral soldiers, on the other hand, are more direct servants of the elder dragon. They take a more active role in defending the continent, so you should see them patrolling, standing guard, attacking players, etc.

Thank you, Anthony, that was interesting.

its the heart of enemy territory, its supposed to be packed with mobs, you can solo through carefully, but best to run with a group.

I understand. But I still think there’s too many mobs that respawn too quickly. Even -with- a group.

I like it, really feels like you are pushing into enemy territory, keep moving as you fight, push on. It feels pretty epic.

Cameirus.8407:

I like it, really feels like you are pushing into enemy territory, keep moving as you fight, push on. It feels pretty epic.

I have no complaints about the difficulty. My only complaint has been regarding the distribution of mobs in the zone. It looks unnatural to me, as though someone placed the mobs in such a way as to cover a certain amount of territory in the zone. In other zones, mobs generally appear to be more naturally placed around their respective zones; dolyaks and deer are in herds, centaurs and bandits are in camps, and so on. I won’t say this is the only place in the game where mobs are just standing out in the middle of nowhere, but it is the place where it is most obvious to me, and that’s disappointing.

VakarisJ.5619:

Is there anything in the lore that explains why the shambling, rotting corpses run 2-3 times as fast as a player?
What about half of them wielding anchors that they magically use to pull anyone running by?

Plays a fantasy game.
Upset about “unrealaistic” interactions.

Ummmm how about their magic freaking zombies? Not every movie, book or show has used slow zombies. Some are as fast, if not faster, than people. How boring would Orr be if you could outrun EVERY mob in the zone?

And if you’re going to argue about anchors and stuff just appearing, why stop there? I don’t see my theif reload his gun ever! Wtf is up with that?! Where did that banner the warrior just dropped come from?! WHAT IS HAPPENING!?

Anywayyyyyy, I like Orr the way it is. The volume of monsters means I have to think and pay attention. The exact opposite of WoW when not raiding, where you are a God who destroys entire camps with one cooldown use! Here you have to plan. What’s the easiest way to get to that node? What should I do to get to this event quicker? I this game there isn’t any demounting, killing everything in sight in seconds, grabbing the node you really came for, mounting up and riding off to do it all again 15 seconds later. OK, maybe a little with proper builds and skill, but no where near the level of other games I’ve played. It’s refreshing to be challenged outside of raids.

Yes many people can speed boost or seatlh out of combat while running past, but you still have to think even then. Where will you be when your boost ends? Because you might end up right in the middle of three very angry undead.

AFter playing GW the original for 7 years, I am highly disappointed in the new one. I wasted 60 bucks to get a revamped Aion and Rift combo with a GW backdrop! This is typical of todays companies that cant come up with anything new, so they keep redressing things up and call it NEW!! I wont be playing this game anymore. Also I want to know where Anet gets its stats. They said millions of people are playing???? REALLY?? I highly doubt that.....

Insanitybg.4217:

And what’s up with the lack of undead charr in the zone? In the prophecies manuscrip it says that the charr even reached the gates of Arah yet i only found some in the Straits of Devastation along with the random undead asura and norn.

Orr was a human area when it sank, while Zhaitan keeps building up his army with whatever he can get, his original force consists of a whole nation of undead humans.

Valdaran.8015:

VakarisJ.5619:

Is there anything in the lore that explains why the shambling, rotting corpses run 2-3 times as fast as a player?
What about half of them wielding anchors that they magically use to pull anyone running by?

Plays a fantasy game.
Upset about “unrealaistic” interactions.

Ummmm how about their magic freaking zombies? Not every movie, book or show has used slow zombies. Some are as fast, if not faster, than people. How boring would Orr be if you could outrun EVERY mob in the zone?

And if you’re going to argue about anchors and stuff just appearing, why stop there? I don’t see my theif reload his gun ever! Wtf is up with that?! Where did that banner the warrior just dropped come from?! WHAT IS HAPPENING!?

I never asked for “realism”, I’m just asking for a bit of consistency – zombies, by default, are slow-moving corpses without magical abilities because they lack any at all willpower.

The banners are conjured up by warriors mid-air and while no reloading caught my eye, it wasn’t significant or gameplay-shifting, unlike the morphine-induced, telekinetic risen.

I see more bugs in Orr than undeads

VakarisJ.5619:

I never asked for “realism”, I’m just asking for a bit of consistency – zombies, by default, are slow-moving corpses without magical abilities because they lack any at all willpower.

Were you the one that started the zombie trend, VakarisJ? Last time I checked, zombies were creatures of fantasy, meaning there’s no “default”. Whoever creates them within context can make them however they see fit.
Some of the best zombie games have them sprinting towards you. L4D, dead island, etc.
I love it when people complain because one thing is unique and not like EVERYthing else.

SwiftChocobo.3781:

VakarisJ.5619:

I never asked for “realism”, I’m just asking for a bit of consistency – zombies, by default, are slow-moving corpses without magical abilities because they lack any at all willpower.

Were you the one that started the zombie trend, VakarisJ? Last time I checked, zombies were creatures of fantasy, meaning there’s no “default”. Whoever creates them within context can make them however they see fit.
Some of the best zombie games have them sprinting towards you. L4D, dead island, etc.
I love it when people complain because one thing is unique and not like EVERYthing else.

In L4D they made them fast to give a challenge, as there isn’t any by just plowing through a sea of the dead. That said, they didn’t make the zombies (normal zombies anyway) outrun you and they actually documented a fantasy-reason why they are fast.

I don’t see how you can even mention Dead Island and hope to be taken seriously – that game was garbage, it’s name alone is an insult to some. Anyway – while zombies there were fast, they weren’t particularly sturdy, they’d die in 1-2 hits from a blade and didn’t pose all that much of an issue even when in numbers. They aren’t given much lore, but the main reason given is that little is known about them – the outbreak just happened and there’s little information because of that.

In GW2, however, they’re a lot faster then you, they spot and pull you from a huge distance, they immobilize, stun, sink and enfear you, while at the same time acting as if their skin was made out of titanium and killing a player in a few glancing blows.
The difference between L4D/DI and GW2, is that in no game other then GW2 were they so cookie-cutter-powerful. In both other games there were reasons, or suggestions of reasons why they are how they are – I’ve yet to see such in GW2. That is the reason why I asked the dev, whenever this was covered in the lore or just made up for gameplay’s sake. I’ve yet to receive an answer, instead – starting to get bombed by trolls and flame-seekers.

It’s kinda funny how at level 40ish you immediately see a lack of variety of tasks you can do to complete hearts. Or at least at the zones I’ve been in.

I read a lot of complaints from people saying theres no reason to group, then when there is, now they complain you can’t do it solo, lol.

Well, you can’t please everyone. I just want to commend Arena Net on Orr as it is by far one of the most intriguing and enjoyable zones I’ve seen in an MMO. It delivers in spades and is exactly how I envisioned it would be from both a game-play and lore perspective.

I also love the attention to detail and how some of the undead go about the tasks they did in life. Many people likely miss such things when running everywhere, but that’s their loss! As for the enemy density? Nothing is stopping people from teaming up with a friend or asking people in map chat for a bit of help. I don’t understand the allergy to teamwork some players have, especially when they insist on visiting zones that benefit quite a bit from it.

The probably with Orr is everyone who is lvl80 is forced to play their, there is no other choice so if like me you don’t feel inspired playing in some gloom & doom final zone over and over what will you do? Surely they could of had different themed lvl80 content, surely.. and it has nothing to do racing to lvl80, at some point everyone will be faced with the same issue. If it’s to your fancy fine, personally it has put me off the game which is a real shame seeing what could of been.

Lionhearted.7169:

The probably with Orr is everyone who is lvl80 is forced to play their, there is no other choice so if like me you don’t feel inspired playing in some gloom & doom final zone over and over what will you do? Surely they could of had different themed lvl80 content, surely.. and it has nothing to do racing to lvl80, at some point everyone will be faced with the same issue. If it’s to your fancy fine, personally it has put me off the game which is a real shame seeing what could of been.

Considering the main focus of the campaign seemed to be Zhaitan where did you expect the final zones to be in rainbow village? It was a sunken city that was risen by an undead dragon to be used as a factory for undead.

RoRo.8270:

Lionhearted.7169:

The probably with Orr is everyone who is lvl80 is forced to play their, there is no other choice so if like me you don’t feel inspired playing in some gloom & doom final zone over and over what will you do? Surely they could of had different themed lvl80 content, surely.. and it has nothing to do racing to lvl80, at some point everyone will be faced with the same issue. If it’s to your fancy fine, personally it has put me off the game which is a real shame seeing what could of been.

Considering the main focus of the campaign seemed to be Zhaitan where did you expect the final zones to be in rainbow village? It was a sunken city that was risen by an undead dragon to be used as a factory for undead.

That’s fine it wouldn’t hurt having different level 80 zones spread throughout the world now would it, in game design you must cater for everyone otherwise your business model needs to be shot.

I was very disappointed when I realized this wouldn’t be a Jerry Seinfeld skit. Anywho, I understand the density of the unliving from a lore stand-point, and I agree with it; but it’s just ludicrous from a gameplay perspective.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

As someone who worked extremely hard on one of the Orrian maps, I can tell you that DusK has the most accurate comment.

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From a lore perspective, the risen continent was once a living nation full of all sorts sorts of people and creatures. Now corrupted by the undead dragon, most of them walk the land as monsters. But you’ll still see a lot of the sentient inhabitants mindlessly continuing on the tasks they performed in their old lives. Some of them farm and mine, others lie around and weep in agony.

The coral soldiers, on the other hand, are more direct servants of the elder dragon. They take a more active role in defending the continent, so you should see them patrolling, standing guard, attacking players, etc.

Sorry, but that explanation doesn’t cut it, because the density is so out of whack with the rest of the game. Also, even if you can come up with a lore excuse, it doesn’t account for the “laziness” of the way the mobs are tossed onto the maps.

I agree with the OP, this does break immersion, along with not being very fun. It also brings us right back to the traditional MMO style of mob placement, which is completely incongruent with the rest of the game.

I’m a huge fan of the game and have logged over 225 hours since release, but I’m not going to pretend something is ok, when it isn’t, because then the game can’t improve.

Algreg.3629:

Orr was a human area when it sank, while Zhaitan keeps building up his army with whatever he can get, his original force consists of a whole nation of undead humans.

I understand why there are asura/norn on some of the shores (mainly the straits) but don’t forget that the reason why it sank was because the charr forces had nearly conquered the nation so the vizier cast the spell to sink it (same deal with the foefire but at least that has an explanation why there aren’t charr ghosts).Since some of the undead continue their daily lives (as if stuck in time) it would be cool seeing the 2 races fighting in different areas.

Artorous.8573:

I just wish the mobs there dropped a little extra $$$ so I could actually get some decent upgrades. The karma items, at least for light, are all Pre/Vit/Tough that I can find. Yeah, cause I want to crit a lot but not do any damage.

I hate trying to farm mats in those zones just because of how close the mobs are. They are either ranged or have pull abilities to ensure I can’t actually get away. And is it just me or does it seem like the agro radius and reset range is a hell of a lot closer/longer than any of the other zones?

Sir. http://dulfy.net/2012/09/08/gw2-templegod-karma-armor-sets/

Ill remind you that Orr was once the most powerful kingdom/nation on tyria ( Human wise). Their mastery of magic was above anything else even to current day standards.

Some even speculate that their impressive ascension was due to their city bein lg build on top of a dormant dragon itself. Leeching off its power.

Also, the orrian demise was a lot more catastrophic than ascalon, the foefire destroyed the invading charr, turning humans to bound ghosts.
Orrian apocalypse -killed- everything. And sunk a magnificient city.

Thus why theyre not ghosts. They effectively were dead and gone, zhaitan ressurected them, their bodies, not their souls.

I could be mistaken, but the destruction was more likely caused by the mursaat with their schemes than the charr themselves.

This lead us back to the topic at hand.

Fast running, super zombies. Well, they were that much powerful. And so is zhaitan, so i dont think raising an -orrian- army and keeping their aptitude for magic is so out of reach, is it?

As a last note, on the charr question, its possible that zhaitan didnt consider the charr killed near Orr a strong enough force to be bothered with.
I mean, charr at that time were savages with numbers, perhaps he had to choose between an super powered magic human army of zombies, or, a few thousand charr savages with a couple shaman casters in the middle….

( he was dormant, its possible he didnt wake ul in full force to raise everything. Even now when we kill something outside orr territory , its not risen in zhaitan’s control. Its power has limits as far as we know).

Thats my take anyway

VakarisJ.5619:

Is there anything in the lore that explains why the shambling, rotting corpses run 2-3 times as fast as a player?
What about half of them wielding anchors that they magically use to pull anyone running by?

lol i hate those zombies
risen purifier isn’t it?

as for me, i’m not hating orr
i respected my trait to tough and vit just to explore orr and run through the zombies

yeah it’s hard, but it’s not impossible
what do you guys expect?
a darker queensdale with a few zombies? :p

I want to apologize. Mob placement brings back nightmares of scattershot, old style MMO mob placement in some areas, but not the entire map. A good portion, so far, seems fine. I’ll explore the entire region before commenting further, beyond the point that some locations should be fine tuned for placement and density, but it’s hardly a region wide issue.

@ Lctl: i wasn’t asking about GHOSTS in Orr, i meant that the foefire explains why one there are no charr (btw judging from the AC intro it looks like that explosion could have killed all life in it’s aoe range and it also incinerated the humans but trapped their ghosts).
As for the risen, i’m pretty sure he rose more than half of them unintentionally (hence why they aren’t all soldiers and they even farm/mine which they wouldn’t need).Also you mean he wouldn’t consider the same “savages” that managed to wreck the most powerful human nation and it’s “super powered human magical army” strong enough?Keep in mind that the risen still stay…risen after we kill him in the personal story, so he wouldn’t have had to chose.

BTW: there were no mursaat in Orr it got sunken by the king’s advisor who used ancient scrolls under the city to cast the cataclysm (influenced by abaddon but some people think the scrolls are related to zhaitan).

My biggest complaint about the risen is the way they hivemind. From a lore perspective, it totally makes sense that they’re spread out in a grid pattern and swarm you (they’re protecting the heart of their territory and don’t really -need- to move), but given the respawn rate together with the hivemind swarm and relentless aggro it isn’t very fun.

Maybe if more of the risen had more varied movesets it’d be more intense/different each time, but at the moment every fight is get swarmed → kite and kill. Most of them don’t really have -that move- I need to dodge or anything or do anything too different. There is that annoying anchor thing, but I usually get hit with that outside of my LOS so no chance to dodge.

Every game needs “that” zone – the zone that gives you anxiety when you don’t want to be there, but is always open to you when you want a challenge and are in the mood for it. It feels to me like I’m in the Running Man or Terminator, exhausting all my skills to run to my destination, only to find out it’s been overrun by angry apes or nasty little antisocial things, that all want to kill me.

Who needs open world PvP when there’s a high chance of getting ganked by a group of OP mouth-breathers anyway?