Guild Wars 2

Ever since Anet open up the forums it seems that it’s been split between to sides. People or adore the game and defend it and others who are appalled by it. I personally enjoy the game for what it is. Are there some major bugs absolutely, but are they game breaking? Not really. But some of the main issues that have been constantly brought up is dungeons and end-game. So my question is what do you want out of a dungeon or endgame experience? I’m not looking for answers like “more stuff,” healers, or anything that break from Anet’s manifesto. Please be specific, and courteous to the responses of others even if you disagree.

Clearly there are some of the issues with dungeons, especially when it comes to drop rates. My suggestion would be if a player does all 3 paths of a dungeon allow one exotic of that dungeon type to be given in the form of a chest. My friends and I miss that feeling, you could even say that rush to loot the final boss to see what he drops. Especially after running a tough instance. But to make it fair, make that chest only be available once a day for that dungeon. So your player still get that “epic loot” feeling without having to walk away with a heavy repair bill and 30 tokens to show for it.

I don’t really believe in the word “endgame.” For example, In Skyrim once you complete the main story, you pretty much continue playing the same thing you’ve been doing over and over again. So with no monthly fee why should I take this any differently? I would much rather have quality content over just spewing out fluff until an expansion is released.

I’ve always thought of it like this, If you make 7.25 an hour, and you purchase Gw2 for 60 all you really needed is about 8 1/2 hours of fun to be worth the money you spent.

I am really curious about responses to this question. I see a lot of people talking about how important endgame is for MMOs, and how most MMOs seem to have insufficient endgame right now (so people ditch them). I rarely see anyone saying exactly what a good, solid endgame would be. In GW2 or anywhere else, what is an ideal endgame? What are pretty much all new MMOs not doing which would make endgame worthwhile?

This’ll be different for different people of course, and no game can appease all of them, but I’m sincerely curious.

I want my endgame to be what Anet is going to give me, more stuff to explore. I have never been a fan of

“Oh let me run this instance over and over again so I can get gear to run this other instance over & over again”

I want to explore, craft a bit, hang out with friends and make my characters look good with things I find or work for around Tyria.

imho “Endgame” is a horrible concept which should have never been put into MMORPGS the whole point of these types of games is that there is no end because you’re always seeking the next adventure, making the next great discovery and exploring the world.

So my endgame will be exactly what Anet will do, which is adding more content for me to experience while hanging out with friends.

I always want more stuff to explore for my endgame. More hidden places, hard to reach, secret methods of acquiring access. Hopefully updated content will provide this but I thought it might be a neat idea to have the methods/clues dropped with end-game dungeon bosses. Something like one or limited time use pegasus shoes that help jump a large gap previously impossible to do.

I would also be happy just with increasingly intense lore. Most times I raid just to see what the dungeons look like and the bosses and see what they say and how they tie in to the world, once I’ve seen it I’m usually not interested in seeing it again. I’ve somewhat been disappointed with the lore late in the going, the voice acting kind of lost its rhythm, almost overdoing it and having some bad lines. =P Sell me that story! =D

So yeah, make the dungeons diverse enough that they don’t get boring, offer clues and rewards that help further secret world exploration, and just sell the dungeons on good storytelling and I’d be very happy.

Also unrelated, Anet please add the zelda secret discovery jingle in the next patch. It would be the best update ever!

I can’t tell you what I want out of my “end-game” experience, because the very idea of “end-game” is terrible and I’m glad to see it done away with in this genre. This idea that everything post-max level in an MMORPG should be some endless stat growth is ridiculous. Gameplay should never take a backseat to numbers.

Good gameplay, on the other hand, is what I want out of any game I buy. I got it with GW2. Whether or not it holds my interest after I “finish” it is irrelevant. No first-person shooter has an “end-game”. No fighter has an “end-game”. This viewpoint that an MMORPG needs to have some constant carrot chase to be enjoyable is absurd.
That’s one of the very “crazy” ideas that ArenaNet set out to prove with GW2.

I got no increased jump height or run speed every time I finished a game of Sonic the Hedgehog. I got no bonus to weapon damage after playing 10 or so games of Unreal Tournament. Fei Long’s Shienkyaku didn’t get more powerful every time I used it. Hell, I didn’t even get to play at all after the conclusion of most RPGs. But what I did get was fun gameplay. And I got that with GW2. And really, that’s all any reasonable gamer wants from a game.

I really love the answers that I’m hearing from you guys/girls. Especially about your views on the term of “end game.” It’s like somewhere along the line people stop playing mmorpgs because they are fun, but more because they want virtual rewards, but if that’s what you enjoy more power to you!

Also that Zelda jingle would be awesome!

Well I started my online gaming habit on the original Guild Wars, so I made many alts and ran them through the content again. Many players did that, as the level cap was only 20. And I also play Champions Online, which has a level cap of 40, and everyone makes alts on that game too. The level cap here is now 80, and for those who zoomed through the content already and have nothing left at all to do, I suggest making an alt, or many many alts, and play through the content again IF YOU WANT. If not, I really don’t know what to tell you.

Guild Wars 2 is clearly a game made for altaholics, which is why there are so many paths to take in our personal stories. I don’t really like the personal story very well because mine seem to be filled with waves and waves of mobs, and I do not intend to run any alts due to that alone. I’m going to find something else to play after I hit 80, or go back to Champions where I have a lifetime subscription to burn through.

I like how Anet made their end game and i don’t want a change

I, for the most part, love the “endgame” found in Guild Wars or lack thereof. I use to play Everquest way, way back in the day and I do not miss the “endgame”. What I do miss is the “trinity”, but not necessarily the actual tank>healer>dps, but the reasoning behind the “trinity”. Namely, the role you have. In Guild Wars, I never feel like I have a “place”. On the one hand, it is awesome. I mean, I can revive teammates… as a thief. On the other hand, I do not feel like my presence ever matters much. My friend said it the best, that you struggle to log-in in times, because you do not feel “needed”. Obviously A-net cannot change what is an integral design feature, nor would I want them to, but I do hope they consider ways of making players feel compelled to log-in and play. In addition, not just play Orr, but all of this beautiful crazy world.

My end game is getting 100% map completion and getting all professions to 80 and playing all of them effectively in WvW.

For me , the content is there, the rewards are there. It just needs to ease up on the punishments, fix the bugs and make the balance tweaks.

Well, I can tell you that GW2 is one of very few MMOs where I would end up with more than one alt; the other being GW1. The big reason would be the Story Quest and how they can be different by a variety of factors. I also would like to experience the story lines of the three different orders. I guess making new alts would be my “end-game”. Definitely a lot more relaxing than my hardcore days playing of playing WoW and raiding about 3~5 nights a week. Currently, I have a level 80 Warrior and I’m juggling between a Mesmer and an Engineer to level up, since the two professions vaguely remind me of my Ritualist in GW1, moreso with the Engineer since the turrets could be like a Ritualist’s spirits while the utilities could be very advanced versions of Ritualist item and weapon spells combined.

Although, I do wonder what an organized raid would be like in GW2 … could it work? How could it work? I think it would require the encounters to be a bit more intuitive and strategic instead of insane zerg-fests that happen at the moment. If anything, it would be interesting to see if GW2 might have something like Kanaxai or Urgoz in the future. I wouldn’t mind beta testing any future raids that could pop up.

On the other hand, I don’t have to deal with some kind of daily or weekly lockout of dungeons in GW2— that always bugged me when I played WoW, but I guess it’s there to sucker you into paying 15 bucks a month. At least with GW2, I could take breaks between days and still feel like I got my money’s worth. Come to think of it, I’d say I got way more than my money’s worth.

Eventually, I’ll go around and get 100% map completion and build my first legendary weapon … I just don’t know which character I’d like to do that on yet since I haven’t really picked a character that I would consider my “main”.

Interesting that you should mention Skyrim. GW2 sometimes reminds me of Skyrim in a good way. In my opinion, the concept of end-game should not exist within an open world rpg. The game should not end. Skyrim is a good example. Yes, the main story had you taking out Alduin but was that really the “end of the game.” Unfortunatley, if you read the Skryim forums, you will see that for some it was. And also, you will see threads about how bored people are with Skyrim after a few weeks.

When I read those, I seriously thought we were playing different games. Like they had received bad copies. It is the same thing with GW2. Arenanet made it clear that GW2 has no “end-game.” Anything you can do at lvl cap you can do at lvl 1. That is what hooked me and got me to buy this game.

I have over 550 hours in Skryim (2 characters). Have not played it in a while because I picked up ME3 and now GW2. Does that mean that I am done with it? Nope. Planning on my 3rd character. Also, due to mods, I have so much more I want to do on my 2nd character. When I have time, I will return to Skyrim to resume my in-game adventures.

I think it really depends upon what is important to you and the extent of your imagination. I create backstories for my rpg characters. I treat them like an actor would treat a film or tv role. They live within the world the game designers have created. How can I get bored with them if the world is alive and changing? If it is full of wonder and places to discover?

I love the approach Areananet has taken to “end-game.” If they were to add end-game raids and “required gear grinds”, I would be disappointed. I say “required gear grinds” meaning that I cannot even do content with having certain gear. That is not right. I paid for a game but cannot play specific content unless I grind for days, weeks or even months. Yes, it takes a lot to get certain gear in GW2 but pursuing it is a choice and not a requirement. You do not have to have “exotics” or “legendaries” to experience content in the game.

DusK.3849:

I can’t tell you what I want out of my “end-game” experience, because the very idea of “end-game” is terrible and I’m glad to see it done away with in this genre. This idea that everything post-max level in an MMORPG should be some endless stat growth is ridiculous. Gameplay should never take a backseat to numbers.

Good gameplay, on the other hand, is what I want out of any game I buy. I got it with GW2. Whether or not it holds my interest after I “finish” it is irrelevant. No first-person shooter has an “end-game”. No fighter has an “end-game”. This viewpoint that an MMORPG needs to have some constant carrot chase to be enjoyable is absurd.
That’s one of the very “crazy” ideas that ArenaNet set out to prove with GW2.

I got no increased jump height or run speed every time I finished a game of Sonic the Hedgehog. I got no bonus to weapon damage after playing 10 or so games of Unreal Tournament. Fei Long’s Shienkyaku didn’t get more powerful every time I used it. Hell, I didn’t even get to play at all after the conclusion of most RPGs. But what I did get was fun gameplay. And I got that with GW2. And really, that’s all any reasonable gamer wants from a game.

So much this. And also, how many people play games like CoD or Battlefield? Why do they play? The answer is, because they are fun, I even clocked in over 2 days worth in BF3 matches. I am so sick of people bringing the concept of an endgame or lack there-of in a game that has just launched. I saw it….no wait scratch that..still do see it everyday in the Diablo 3 forums. Seems like if any game with RPG elements doesn’t have an endgame like WoW, it doesn’t have one at all. Not everyone likes to run a ton of instances/raids just to be able to do the next set. I prefer to do whatever I want at any time, but hey that’s just me

An “end game” that is NOT full of zombies
**never have been threatening or a challenge and always come off as more annoying, than anything.

Beyond that, and update to the dynamic events to prevent spamming:: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Combat-Dynamic-Events-what-s-the-point-if-they-re-easy-mode/first#post243027

And of course:
1. Mini-games of sorts that are player driven.
2. Hunger Games PvP mode ~ made official.
3. Harder Dungeon Modes *(perhaps where you run ALL of the explorer modes a dungeon has to offer during ONE run, to get access to a “final” boss of the dungeon ~ which gives a title, special weapon skin and a “unique” dungeon token ~ which once you have one from every dungeon ~ you can trade them into an NPC hanging around the Mystic Forge to be given an “account bound” key that lets you teleport to a special end game dungeon.

What’s in there?… lol, no one knows! XD

~ just my 2 cents ~

I am actually content with the way this game is set up, I just dont want to run the same dungeon 100 times to get the armor I want.

There is a story mode, and 3 explorable options. If i run all three.. I feel like I should have my armor set. Remove the grind and I am good, followed by regular expansions.

Orbys.4895

I am actually content with the way this game is set up, I just dont want to run the same dungeon 100 times to get the armor I want.
There is a story mode, and 3 explorable options. If i run all three.. I feel like I should have my armor set. Remove the grind and I am good, followed by regular expansions.

Well there are going to up the drop rate of dungeon tokens and make them account bound soon, so you’ll get your wish on that respect

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Tokens-Account-Bound-please/first#post219034

Orbys.4895:

I am actually content with the way this game is set up, I just dont want to run the same dungeon 100 times to get the armor I want.

There is a story mode, and 3 explorable options. If i run all three.. I feel like I should have my armor set. Remove the grind and I am good, followed by regular expansions.

The reason they do this is to give you a reason to continue going to these dungeons other than just that fun factor. Every game will have a form of a grind, content just isn’t easily pushed out as you may think. Like I stated before people no the difference between quality and fluff.

More PVP modes.

Every MMO I know of has 1 underlying theme: character progression (gear, talent points, skills, etc.).

I want the end game to continue that. I’m not that picky in terms of how that happens. It just has to be fun. I used to be able to go into instances 3 or 4 times a week to try and get gear. I really am past that now as the only way to get any of these things.

So ANet, I’m not sure what you have in mind with this but mix it up. A little crafting, a little PvP, a little PvE. Maybe a massive event that occurs once a month or something. Want to redefine end game? Don’t get into a rut.

The whole game is my endgame. For the first time in an MMO I’m not worried about leveling too fast or two slow, leveling is just natural. Even if I outlevel a certain region the game will take care of it by leveling me down.

Having said that when I reach level 80 I’ll just keep doing the same stuff I’m doing now which is exploring the world and its many possibilities.

WvW leveling system that gives Ranks that can be displayed so im more than an invader or defender. Also more variety of gear for badges, both in sytle and stat attachments.

Melphina.9035:

WvW leveling system that gives Ranks that can be displayed so im more than an invader or defender. Also more variety of gear for badges, both in sytle and stat attachments.

That would be great… But it would be even better if they make it so better ranks were not only a matter of time but skills… Like the old rank system in WoW, where you had to be constantly proving yourself in comparison with others to keep your rank. With no gear treadmill attached to this system, it could be really fun!

I’m not a huge, huge fan of raiding end game. I’m lazy, and in no way dedicated enough to do such a thing. But, I do enjoy something to look forward to.

I enjoy that Guild Wars 2 gives us the ability to just enjoy the leveling, the wandering, the general experience without the pressure of hurrying, so I may take part in the raiding portion of the game with all of my friends.

But, I do like having something to look forward to. Something I can do, that I could not do before. Dungeons fall under this somewhat. I would prefer if that “new” thing was not the be all, end all of the game experience….but I think having something to work towards would scratch an itch.

What do you guys think?

The problem with MMOs ‘end game’ is that it is exactly that: the end of the game.

Either you just start over or you repeat that final chapter over and over and over again for increasingly diminishing rewards (aka “grind”).

That is an inescapable fact of all MMOs and for that reason I take my time to enjoy the scenery on the way.

C.

GW2 has basically my ideal endgame (although the term is used very loosely). I hope they don’t change much at all. Just keep enjoying the awesome game the same way as long as you play, and have fun.

The level scaling in this game was a masterstroke for several reasons, not the least of which is that the whole world is open and usable, and max level players can easily help out new / lower-level players as part of their “endgame”. This builds server community and guild communities, and keeps the game social and open-world rather than everyone sitting around in a couple cities queued up for 837203 tiers of instances and useless gear upgrades.

The whole endgame phenomenon we experienced in the first decade of the genre was a mistake that the first MMORPGs made because they weren’t really prepared for the popularity and hadn’t thought at all about what to do when most people hit level cap.

“We’ll just put in some time sinks until we can make more content”… and from that sprung 10 years of ever-more-refined hurry-up-and-raid MMORPGs and an entire guild and community culture based solely on militaristic grinding. I’ll bet if those first MMORPG developers could go back, knowing what they know now…they would have punched their past selves in the face for creating this monster. The mentality of the players will be the last thing to change going forward.

Thank God finally someone is actually THINKING about maybe doing it differently or better. Solve the old problem in a new way, and not repeating the mistakes.

If ArenaNet wants to drastically reduce the complaining on the message boards, they could just do the following. When you reach level 80, a window pops up which provides two choices:

1) Keep playing just like you have been for 80 levels
2) Win

If you click “Win”, the game puts a full set of exotic gear, a legendary weapon, and the title of “Super cool” on your character. You get free waypoints for half an hour so you can run around and look awesome in each of the cities, then… it rolls credits and shuts down the client. So long, come back and see us when the expansion hits: GW2: The Search for More Phatlootz.

The reason for the traditional “end game” is to keep players playing it. It all boils down to money. The companies that make these games need to make money to keep making games (or tending to their current games). Without anythign to strive for at the so called “end” of a game (which in all honesty should be refered to has the beginning of the game) the game slowly fizzles and dies. Thats why noone has even came close to competeing with wow as far as subscribers and overall gross income.

In standard business you normally copy business plans that are succesful, not completely contradict them.

GW2 has some nice concepts but they were poorly executed. Its like you beat the game the day you bought it in a sense. You claim that endgame is map completion but thats kinda a** backwards because im already 50% complete by the time I hit 80.

Without and “endgame” and without appealing to the mass consumer base this game is on a road to failure like most other mmos.

jebidiah ubershiet.2580:

More PVP modes.

Please be more specific. What would you like in these pvp modes? And how can they be made different than what they currently have. Anet stated that all pvp maps will have an underlying objective what would yours be?

Xeres.3724:

Every MMO I know of has 1 underlying theme: character progression (gear, talent points, skills, etc.).

I want the end game to continue that. I’m not that picky in terms of how that happens. It just has to be fun. I used to be able to go into instances 3 or 4 times a week to try and get gear. I really am past that now as the only way to get any of these things.

So ANet, I’m not sure what you have in mind with this but mix it up. A little crafting, a little PvP, a little PvE. Maybe a massive event that occurs once a month or something. Want to redefine end game? Don’t get into a rut.

You’re being a bit general. What do you want in your pve, pvp, and crafting that isn’t already in place. Would You enjoy more aspects of phasing during dynamic events?more challenges rewards in WvW? What would you like to craft legendary Armors? town clothing?

Fozzik.1742:

1) Keep playing just like you have been for 80 levels
2) Win

If you click “Win”, the game puts a full set of exotic gear, a legendary weapon, and the title of “Super cool” on your character. You get free waypoints for half an hour so you can run around and look awesome in each of the cities, then… it rolls credits and shuts down the client. So long, come back and see us when the expansion hits: GW2: The Search for More Phatlootz.

That would be amazing.

A few things:

1. More lvl 80 maps. Because getting loot below 80 is not fun. And because you can’t get crafting materials for rank 400 in lower maps.

2. A few more organized PvE content in the form of dungeons and instances that are accessible to pugs and have lower rewards (no exotic armor) as a consequence. Keeping a party of 5 seems like a good balance. Right now DE can’t fill this gap because there are either too few or too many players around (zerging is not fun).

3. The introduction of more open world bosses that spawn a chest after defeating (and not the usual dragons, because these fights are large scale button mashing). Getting to said bosses should require some foot exploration (i.e., they should be located in remote locations)

These are three things that would keep me busy for a while. Grinding for an armor skin is not something I look forward to when playing. The reward should come from enjoying the play time itself, not the carrot on the stick. Remember, it’s the journey, not the destination that matters.

Mujen.5287:

Also that Zelda jingle would be awesome!

I found a spot that was hard to get to, and it had a bomb sitting there, I was so wishing that I could blow a hole in the wall there and hear the Zelda “secret area” jingle.

Silver Chopper.4506:

A few things:

1. More lvl 80 maps. Because getting loot below 80 is not fun.

Silver Chopper.4506:

The reward should come from enjoying the play time itself, not the carrot on the stick. Remember, it’s the journey, not the destination that matters.

/scratches head

Meadows.1659:

The reason for the traditional “end game” is to keep players playing it. It all boils down to money. The companies that make these games need to make money to keep making games (or tending to their current games). Without anythign to strive for at the so called “end” of a game (which in all honesty should be refered to has the beginning of the game) the game slowly fizzles and dies. Thats why noone has even came close to competeing with wow as far as subscribers and overall gross income.

In standard business you normally copy business plans that are succesful, not completely contradict them.

GW2 has some nice concepts but they were poorly executed. Its like you beat the game the day you bought it in a sense. You claim that endgame is map completion but thats kinda a** backwards because im already 50% complete by the time I hit 80.

Without and “endgame” and without appealing to the mass consumer base this game is on a road to failure like most other mmos.

That philosophy works for subscription based MMOs, but falls flat on its face with GW2. ArenaNet don’t need their player base to play continously – just enough so that a % spend a little on vanity items at the gem store.

As soon as you see that you’ll appreciate that GW2 can’t ‘fail’ in the traditional MMO sense: AN have the revenue up front and provided they produce a enjoyable experience can be reasonably confident of future revenue from expansions.

C.

I think we’d be singing a different song and dance if the newly implemented dungeon mechanisms were in place at the start of the game. At the same time, though, now that these mechanisms are in place, I would say to those who think they’re fully geared “o rly?”… Try doing a section, try doing them all. Are you sure the gear you have is the best layout for any challenge currently presented to you? Maybe you gotta trade that berserker piece for some pieces with vit/toughness, maybe those runes need to be switched up.

Point is, you can’t say there’s no endgame if you haven’t done it. Just because you have easy access to the top tier gear doesn’t mean you have it and even if you do, you might not actually have the best setup for your toon.

MrsAngelD.6971:

I want my endgame to be what Anet is going to give me, more stuff to explore. I have never been a fan of

“Oh let me run this instance over and over again so I can get gear to run this other instance over & over again”

I want to explore, craft a bit, hang out with friends and make my characters look good with things I find or work for around Tyria.

imho “Endgame” is a horrible concept which should have never been put into MMORPGS the whole point of these types of games is that there is no end because you’re always seeking the next adventure, making the next great discovery and exploring the world.

So my endgame will be exactly what Anet will do, which is adding more content for me to experience while hanging out with friends.

I feel the same way but I would also like to see some new features that introduces new things to do in the game. These new activities could either improve your character’s abilities or it could do none of that or it could just give us more cosmetic / collectible options.

Or it could even be as wild as being able to build your own boat and sail on the waters. Or having your own house / vendors even if it doesn’t make the player more powerful.

I want to be able to get through Straits of Devastation/Orr without every event failing because I am the only one there.

I have been 72 for over a week and I don’t even play any more because every time I try, events fail and/or I die repeatedly (which is expensive).

Yes, I can level somewhere else. Yes, it’s ok for events to fail. But for a large part of the story (area) to be empty because people hate it is a major problem.

Moral of the story: I should have rushed to 80 so that there would of been people to play with.

I can’t even experience endgame, but from what I hear I’m not missing anything.

Cailais.5180:

Meadows.1659:

The reason for the traditional “end game” is to keep players playing it. It all boils down to money. The companies that make these games need to make money to keep making games (or tending to their current games). Without anythign to strive for at the so called “end” of a game (which in all honesty should be refered to has the beginning of the game) the game slowly fizzles and dies. Thats why noone has even came close to competeing with wow as far as subscribers and overall gross income.

In standard business you normally copy business plans that are succesful, not completely contradict them.

GW2 has some nice concepts but they were poorly executed. Its like you beat the game the day you bought it in a sense. You claim that endgame is map completion but thats kinda a** backwards because im already 50% complete by the time I hit 80.

Without and “endgame” and without appealing to the mass consumer base this game is on a road to failure like most other mmos.

That philosophy works for subscription based MMOs, but falls flat on its face with GW2. ArenaNet don’t need their player base to play continously – just enough so that a % spend a little on vanity items at the gem store.

As soon as you see that you’ll appreciate that GW2 can’t ‘fail’ in the traditional MMO sense: AN have the revenue up front and provided they produce a enjoyable experience can be reasonably confident of future revenue from expansions.

C.

In order for that small percentage of players to “want” to but those gems they are going to “need” a reason for them in the first place. Vanity items cannot sustain a substantial income regardless of what anyone says. There will not be enough profit made to validate an expansion of any type. People need a purpose.

Meadows.1659:

In order for that small percentage of players to “want” to but those gems they are going to “need” a reason for them in the first place. Vanity items cannot sustain a substantial income regardless of what anyone says. There will not be enough profit made to validate an expansion of any type. People need a purpose.

It worked just fine for GW1.

GW has always been more about pvp, pve you can beat, maybe farm some armor skins if you want, get some achievements, but they were never really there to keep you. Anet is about pvp and if you’re not gonna do that there’s not much this game can keep ya.

I went into this having been a GW1 player for years and I know that once I beat the storyline all I got left is farming for cool armor skins and time waster achievements or I can pvp. I’m not big on pvp anymore so other than occasionally getting on to farm gold I’m pretty much done till next expansion.

Actually, Meadows, before WoW finally introduced LFD and LFR, only about 5% of you needed a purpose. Everyone else didn’t want to be bothered with it.

Fiddlestyx.9714:

I want to be able to get through Straits of Devastation/Orr without every event failing because I am the only one there.

I have been 72 for over a week and I don’t even play any more because every time I try, events fail and/or I die repeatedly (which is expensive).

Yes, I can level somewhere else. Yes, it’s ok for events to fail. But for a large part of the story (area) to be empty because people hate it is a major problem.

Moral of the story: I should have rushed to 80 so that there would of been people to play with.

I can’t even experience endgame, but from what I hear I’m not missing anything.

There’s more than one place to go for 70-80…or any level range, for that matter.

It’s quite possible that you weren’t too late getting into your 70’s, but too early. Most players probably still aren’t as high a level as you are. The hardcore folks who spend time on web forums give a bit of a skewed perspective, but are a small minority. Most players are likely still in the early / mid levels, enjoying the world and wandering with no real incentive to rush. MOST people don’t have 100’s of hours a month to play MMORPGs.

Give it some time, populations will spread out more evenly as they balance the game and more players get to be higher level. Also… go somewhere other than Orr. Seems like a lot of high-level players don’t like that zone but just stay there out of some overriding need to make themselves miserable just for slightly more loot.

Cailais.5180:

Meadows.1659:

The reason for the traditional “end game” is to keep players playing it. It all boils down to money. The companies that make these games need to make money to keep making games (or tending to their current games). Without anythign to strive for at the so called “end” of a game (which in all honesty should be refered to has the beginning of the game) the game slowly fizzles and dies. Thats why noone has even came close to competeing with wow as far as subscribers and overall gross income.

In standard business you normally copy business plans that are succesful, not completely contradict them.

GW2 has some nice concepts but they were poorly executed. Its like you beat the game the day you bought it in a sense. You claim that endgame is map completion but thats kinda a** backwards because im already 50% complete by the time I hit 80.

Without and “endgame” and without appealing to the mass consumer base this game is on a road to failure like most other mmos.

That philosophy works for subscription based MMOs, but falls flat on its face with GW2. ArenaNet don’t need their player base to play continously – just enough so that a % spend a little on vanity items at the gem store.

As soon as you see that you’ll appreciate that GW2 can’t ‘fail’ in the traditional MMO sense: AN have the revenue up front and provided they produce a enjoyable experience can be reasonably confident of future revenue from expansions.

C.

And honestly F2P is no different than a sub based game in terms of game design. Both hope to make money for a long period of time. Otherwise you would just make an offline game that you dont have to maintence regularly. The only difference is F2P is a marketing strategy that trys to hook the consumer by offering no monthly sub but at the price of requiring you to spend real money anyway to get vanity items and such. Either way your spending money so why not spend it on a game where you actually have a purpose for spending it rather than just running around looking at pretty places on maps.

ituhata.6830:

Actually, Meadows, before WoW finally introduced LFD and LFR, only about 5% of you needed a purpose. Everyone else didn’t want to be bothered with it.

Actually before lfr and lfd the mass consumer base complained that they wanted a “taste” of the purpose as well but that the current “purpose” that was in game was too difficult for them. Thats why lfr and lfd was implemented in the first place.

Fozzik.1742:

Silver Chopper.4506:

A few things:

1. More lvl 80 maps. Because getting loot below 80 is not fun.

Silver Chopper.4506:

The reward should come from enjoying the play time itself, not the carrot on the stick. Remember, it’s the journey, not the destination that matters.

/scratches head

Scratch some more if you don’t get it.

At level 80 the only attainable destination in pve is exotic gear (that is the carrot on the stick that the devs placed out there). Getting to it is the journey, and it should be made more meaningful with little rewards that add variety to your play. For example a lvl 80 charr map or asura map for added variety if you’re trying to do the exotic armor craft. Or getting a lvl 80 gold weapon drop after playing, let’s say 200 hours with the same weapon. The rest of my points refer to content not loot.

Meadows.1659:

The reason for the traditional “end game” is to keep players playing it. It all boils down to money. The companies that make these games need to make money to keep making games (or tending to their current games). Without anythign to strive for at the so called “end” of a game (which in all honesty should be refered to has the beginning of the game) the game slowly fizzles and dies. Thats why noone has even came close to competeing with wow as far as subscribers and overall gross income.

In standard business you normally copy business plans that are succesful, not completely contradict them.

GW2 has some nice concepts but they were poorly executed. Its like you beat the game the day you bought it in a sense. You claim that endgame is map completion but thats kinda a** backwards because im already 50% complete by the time I hit 80.

Without and “endgame” and without appealing to the mass consumer base this game is on a road to failure like most other mmos.

Then explain how GW1 has been going strong for 7 years without any power progression beyond lvl 20 / Droks gear.
All those tinfoil hat theories fall flat on their face when meeting reality.

GW2 is not required to lock players into itself being a B2P game.
It’s like saying Skyrim fails because there is nothing glueing you to the game forever and thus people won’t buy Dawnguard and further expansions.

I think people believe that since GW2 allows for multiplayer content like a MMO then it must face the issues that other MMOs meet – even though the game is still a B2P format and caters to a different audience than them – the classic B2P audience that completes a game and then waits for expansions to play again – or replay the game in different ways.

I’m just curious to see for how much time people is going to drag this misconception before they understand this.

Note that these are personal opinions only, and do not have any effect on anybody else. My experiences lead me to seek out a game that is different from all the other styles out there.

I’m an older, female player, who has played electronic games since the late Atari 2600, early NES days. I also play German style board games, traditional card games, and deck-building games, and co-ops like Arkham Horror at a local game store. Online play started with MUD’s, then to 2d hobby games (mostly PvP oriented), then to some F2P grinders, then to the PvE oriented cooperative DDO (with a significant gear grind, but not much treadmill until the expansion ruined it). I’ve participated in the gear treadmill before, and GW2 gives me the chance to break out of that routine.

PvP is the primary “end-game” for a lot of people, but I don’t feel it is for me. I’ve become quite a bit less competitive as I age, and I want to avoid the typical trash talk, “serious business” attitudes that tend to revolve around the PvP scene. WvW is mildly interesting, but since I’m on Henge, a highly skilled WvW server, I’d rather not weaken the server in general by taking a spot in WvW that a better skilled and experienced player could use.

Going by the Bartle profiles, I’m primarily an explorer, with moderate socializer, and mild achiever traits.

Exploration is what I love best, and that is the thing that GW2 PvE does best. I like finding hidden areas, trying to find my way into or onto an area, discovering a chest stashed away in some hidden cave, and triggering uncommonly run events. I want to experience everything the open world has to offer. Even areas I’ve been to dozens of times, I’m still discovering something new in them.

I socialize a good bit with my guildmates, and occasionally with people I meet wandering the world. My primary thing, though, is helping them in whatever way I can. Although I do not enjoy the dungeons, if they really need the help I will go. I’ll bring my capped, almost fully equipped Ele wherever they are levelling, just because it’s fun for me. I made an alt, but I still prefer to play my Ele as I’m most comfortable with that character’s capabilities and controls.

For “achievements”, I don’t do them to compete with others, or be the “first” in anything. I just set personal goals for myself, and try to achieve them. It’s a personal challenge.

My typical play in the evenings is either helping out a guildmate or friend; wandering around in some area trying to find more hidden treasures/areas/etc; or working on the personal goals I set. There are a number of events (especially metas) that I missed the first time through an area, so I’m trying to experience all of those as well.

As of yet, I am still not bored with GW2. As long as there are still hidden things in the world, still friends and guildmates who want company or help, and still things for me to personally achieve; I will not be bored.

Red Falcon.8257:

Meadows.1659:

The reason for the traditional “end game” is to keep players playing it. It all boils down to money. The companies that make these games need to make money to keep making games (or tending to their current games). Without anythign to strive for at the so called “end” of a game (which in all honesty should be refered to has the beginning of the game) the game slowly fizzles and dies. Thats why noone has even came close to competeing with wow as far as subscribers and overall gross income.

In standard business you normally copy business plans that are succesful, not completely contradict them.

GW2 has some nice concepts but they were poorly executed. Its like you beat the game the day you bought it in a sense. You claim that endgame is map completion but thats kinda a** backwards because im already 50% complete by the time I hit 80.

Without and “endgame” and without appealing to the mass consumer base this game is on a road to failure like most other mmos.

Then explain how GW1 has been going strong for 7 years without any power progression beyond lvl 20 / Droks gear.
All those tinfoil hat theories fall flat on their face when meeting reality.

GW2 is not required to lock players into itself being a B2P game.
It’s like saying Skyrim fails because there is nothing glueing you to the game forever and thus people won’t buy Dawnguard and further expansions.

I think people believe that since GW2 allows for multiplayer content like a MMO then it must face the issues that other MMOs meet – even though the game is still a B2P format and caters to a different audience than them – the classic B2P audience that completes a game and then waits for expansions to play again – or replay the game in different ways.

I’m just curious to see for how much time people is going to drag this misconception before they understand this.

Just because the game still exists doesnt mean that it is succesful. Most every mmo thats ever been made still has a player base of some type.

And also ask yourself this… Why hasnt there been any upgrades or expansions in the last 7 years? probably because it wasnt profitable enough to validate one i would assume.

The “endgame” has one major flaw for me – which is that you can’t avoid reaching level cap without leaving out half or more of the content. Then if you go back and complete early content in order to explore the map, it is essentially trivial given your lvl 80 stats & in the rewards for doing so are low. This is where Guild Wars 1 really wins out: when you got to level 20 (very quickly after Factions) nearly all the content is ahead of you – even the starting areas (after they added hard mode). Guild Wars 2 badly needs a way of leveraging the large amount of cool content they have already put into the game so that “endgame” isn’t a head banging grind for gold in a small area of the game.

Meadows.1659:

ituhata.6830:

Actually, Meadows, before WoW finally introduced LFD and LFR, only about 5% of you needed a purpose. Everyone else didn’t want to be bothered with it.

Actually before lfr and lfd the mass consumer base complained that they wanted a “taste” of the purpose as well but that the current “purpose” that was in game was too difficult for them. Thats why lfr and lfd was implemented in the first place.

Couldn’t be because people complained about not being able to find groups for dungeons because no one they knew wanted to do them, so they had to pool the resources for an entire battlegroup and even then queues sucked because no one wanted to tank and heal the same crap over and over. An entire battlegroup, takes dps players sometimes over 2 hours to find a group. Two hours to find 5 players. One tank. One healer. Really? I thought people wanted to run dungeons over and over in the name of end-game progression!

Meadows.1659:

Red Falcon.8257:

Meadows.1659:

The reason for the traditional “end game” is to keep players playing it. It all boils down to money. The companies that make these games need to make money to keep making games (or tending to their current games). Without anythign to strive for at the so called “end” of a game (which in all honesty should be refered to has the beginning of the game) the game slowly fizzles and dies. Thats why noone has even came close to competeing with wow as far as subscribers and overall gross income.

In standard business you normally copy business plans that are succesful, not completely contradict them.

GW2 has some nice concepts but they were poorly executed. Its like you beat the game the day you bought it in a sense. You claim that endgame is map completion but thats kinda a** backwards because im already 50% complete by the time I hit 80.

Without and “endgame” and without appealing to the mass consumer base this game is on a road to failure like most other mmos.

Then explain how GW1 has been going strong for 7 years without any power progression beyond lvl 20 / Droks gear.
All those tinfoil hat theories fall flat on their face when meeting reality.

GW2 is not required to lock players into itself being a B2P game.
It’s like saying Skyrim fails because there is nothing glueing you to the game forever and thus people won’t buy Dawnguard and further expansions.

I think people believe that since GW2 allows for multiplayer content like a MMO then it must face the issues that other MMOs meet – even though the game is still a B2P format and caters to a different audience than them – the classic B2P audience that completes a game and then waits for expansions to play again – or replay the game in different ways.

I’m just curious to see for how much time people is going to drag this misconception before they understand this.

Just because the game still exists doesnt mean that it is succesful. Most every mmo thats ever been made still has a player base of some type.

And also ask yourself this… Why hasnt there been any upgrades or expansions in the last 7 years? probably because it wasnt profitable enough to validate one i would assume.

You mean 5 years, right? EotN launched in 2007. And I can say that GW1 is pretty much full of people these days. Everytime I log, every social hub is crowded. Guess it says a lot for the longevity of that game, even without any gear treadmil and “end game”

ituhata.6830:

Meadows.1659:

ituhata.6830:

Actually, Meadows, before WoW finally introduced LFD and LFR, only about 5% of you needed a purpose. Everyone else didn’t want to be bothered with it.

Actually before lfr and lfd the mass consumer base complained that they wanted a “taste” of the purpose as well but that the current “purpose” that was in game was too difficult for them. Thats why lfr and lfd was implemented in the first place.

Couldn’t be because people complained about not being able to find groups for dungeons because no one they knew wanted to do them, so they had to pool the resources for an entire battlegroup and even then queues sucked because no one wanted to tank and heal the same crap over and over. An entire battlegroup, takes dps players sometimes over 2 hours to find a group. Two hours to find 5 players. One tank. One healer. Really? I thought people wanted to run dungeons over and over in the name of end-game progression!

Well the short answer would be no it wasnt because of that. 5 mans arent considered end game content anyway for arguements sake, but even so trade chat used to be exploding with lf groups before the dungeon finder. Also any person that plays wow knows that u might be looking at 30 min max for a que unless you play at like 3am. This thread isnt really about wows lfr or lfds system anyway. Its about gw2s endgame content. which is all but null and void.

deriver.5381:

Meadows.1659:

Red Falcon.8257:

Meadows.1659:

The reason for the traditional “end game” is to keep players playing it. It all boils down to money. The companies that make these games need to make money to keep making games (or tending to their current games). Without anythign to strive for at the so called “end” of a game (which in all honesty should be refered to has the beginning of the game) the game slowly fizzles and dies. Thats why noone has even came close to competeing with wow as far as subscribers and overall gross income.

In standard business you normally copy business plans that are succesful, not completely contradict them.

GW2 has some nice concepts but they were poorly executed. Its like you beat the game the day you bought it in a sense. You claim that endgame is map completion but thats kinda a** backwards because im already 50% complete by the time I hit 80.

Without and “endgame” and without appealing to the mass consumer base this game is on a road to failure like most other mmos.

Then explain how GW1 has been going strong for 7 years without any power progression beyond lvl 20 / Droks gear.
All those tinfoil hat theories fall flat on their face when meeting reality.

GW2 is not required to lock players into itself being a B2P game.
It’s like saying Skyrim fails because there is nothing glueing you to the game forever and thus people won’t buy Dawnguard and further expansions.

I think people believe that since GW2 allows for multiplayer content like a MMO then it must face the issues that other MMOs meet – even though the game is still a B2P format and caters to a different audience than them – the classic B2P audience that completes a game and then waits for expansions to play again – or replay the game in different ways.

I’m just curious to see for how much time people is going to drag this misconception before they understand this.

Just because the game still exists doesnt mean that it is succesful. Most every mmo thats ever been made still has a player base of some type.

And also ask yourself this… Why hasnt there been any upgrades or expansions in the last 7 years? probably because it wasnt profitable enough to validate one i would assume.

You mean 5 years, right? EotN launched in 2007. And I can say that GW1 is pretty much full of people these days. Everytime I log, every social hub is crowded. Guess it says a lot for the longevity of that game, even without any gear treadmil and “end game”

I was just quoting red falcon as far as the timeline. And has ive already stated, every mmo ever made still has players. That doesnt mean it was succesful.