Guild Wars 2

A fix for this, along with the bleed cap, has been in the works, according to the developers, since launch. When is it going to happen?

Well making a weapon rack bleed is kind of….unreal?

RedSpectrum.1975:

Well making a weapon rack bleed is kind of….unreal?

But giant talking horned cats are completely believable.

Brutal Arts.6307:

RedSpectrum.1975:

Well making a weapon rack bleed is kind of….unreal?

But giant talking horned cats are completely believable.

Wow. Seriously? What are you even on?

Making a weapon rack bleed sounds as silly as making a pile of stones disappear by hitting it with a dagger, making an earth elemental bleed or not being able to set said weapon rack on fire.

Hah! Please, let’s be serious and not bring ‘realism’ into the discussion shall we?

On topic: I don’t see why not. No reason condition damage specced people should hack away at objects twice as long. And while you’re at it Anet, maybe you could remove mobs that are immune to half my class’s abilities. I’m looking at you Dredge. It’s like WoW’s fire/frost immune mobs all over again..

They stated a long time ago that they didn’t want people to have to respec all the time to fight new monsters. That’s why you can burn or bleed a rock elemental. The same should apply for this case.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Well making a weapon rack bleed is kind of….unreal?

And a burning flame elemental is completely logical?

marnick.4305:

RedSpectrum.1975:

Well making a weapon rack bleed is kind of….unreal?

And a burning flame elemental is completely logical?

As far as magically created constructs go, yes. But you still can’t get blood from a rock.

Burning should definitely be able to take down any construct.

make a rock bleeding……….
rock’s have no blood so how can they bleed?
objects have no blood and are animated by magic so cannot bleed.

Maybe think outside of the box?
A rock could -maybe- bleed dust/small particles etc … or maybe bleed a magical essence linked to its life force?

This is a Fantasy world, so attaching real-world limitations is pointless.

I can see some conditions being viable on objects, burning for example. Poison could potentially have corrosive qualities and therefore potentially also work. However, conditions like bleeding would be unrealistic (even for a game with giant talking horned cats).

I don’t disagree that some conditions should have an affect on objects, but I don’t think they all should.

GW rocks might be like jam donuts and instead of jam in the middle have blood…. who knows, it’s fantasy – anything can happen.

I won’t be happy until I can make a weapon rack flee in terror!

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I can see some conditions being viable on objects, burning for example. Poison could potentially have corrosive qualities and therefore potentially also work. However, conditions like bleeding would be unrealistic (even for a game with giant talking horned cats).

I don’t disagree that some conditions should have an affect on objects, but I don’t think they all should.

Why only some?

From a metagame standpoint there is no reason that a condition build should take longer to destroy an object. It isn’t as if it would give them some sort of unfair advantage over direct attacks. Unless I’m missing something, all they want is to have the same time to kill on objects as non condition builds.

From a lore, or making sense standpoint. We already bleed, poison, and ignite rock, plant, fire, and construct based creatures regularly. I mean just how on earth do we poison a golem… or bleed it for that matter? We also can light fire elementals on fire.

There is a reason immunities are a thing of the past in popular MMOs including this one. It isn’t fun to have to respec just to fight a certain set of enemies.

Same goes for objects. A-net has already agreed to this… at launch even, It’s just taken them a long time to get it done. I cant see why though.

Maybe we need some enemies that have a really high armor value, but condition damage still gets through 1:1, to balance things out. Make a dungeon, where all the bosses have this super armor and the rewards are ascended. See how the direct damage crows will like it.

As long as a mosquito can drop a Greatsword I’m not too concerned about bleeding rocks.

Lokki.1092:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I can see some conditions being viable on objects, burning for example. Poison could potentially have corrosive qualities and therefore potentially also work. However, conditions like bleeding would be unrealistic (even for a game with giant talking horned cats).

I don’t disagree that some conditions should have an affect on objects, but I don’t think they all should.

Why only some?

From a metagame standpoint there is no reason that a condition build should take longer to destroy an object. It isn’t as if it would give them some sort of unfair advantage over direct attacks. Unless I’m missing something, all they want is to have the same time to kill on objects as non condition builds.

From a lore, or making sense standpoint. We already bleed, poison, and ignite rock, plant, fire, and construct based creatures regularly. I mean just how on earth do we poison a golem… or bleed it for that matter? We also can light fire elementals on fire.

There is a reason immunities are a thing of the past in popular MMOs including this one. It isn’t fun to have to respec just to fight a certain set of enemies.

Same goes for objects. A-net has already agreed to this… at launch even, It’s just taken them a long time to get it done. I cant see why though.

Its immersion breaking for many. A post can’t bleed, it has no blood, and there is precedent for the handling of things like this. Destroyer foes don’t burn, for example. They are immune to burning because they are fire (makes sense logically). Logically, they have a higher resistance to fire based attacks as well. We have foes that are immune to bleeding (think it was an earth elemental I’m thinking of, I’ll have to double check later), to blind (dredge), to stun, etc.

Now, should a condition based build do less damage to objects than foes, potentially logically yes, depending on the object and the condition being used (burning against a post for example, should do a heck of a lot more dmg than burning against a rock). (and if I’m playing conditions I should expect this). Should there be a way to offset this, so that concerns such as yours are addressed? Yes. Do I have the answer? Not off the top of my head.

Yes, this is a fantasy game, but even fantasy has limits of acceptability. Even in fantasy there is a level of ‘realism’ that is necessary in order for your player/viewer/reader to be comfortable. For their logical mind to apply plausibility and believability to the environment and accept what is happening. IF you step outside this comfort zone, solid support of why such things are possible need to be clearly defined, in order for immersion to remain for your user, otherwise you ruin what you are working towards, and lose your target’s attention. [The fact that I remember this from my creative writing and game design courses is astounding to me]

Edit: On a side note, Golems are simply robots, they can ‘bleed’ in a sense. Although their ‘blood’ is lubricant – oil, or hydrolic fluid, or whatever. Ever seen Short Circuit? When the robot gets damaged, they say he’s “bleeding,” same concept.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Well making a weapon rack bleed is kind of….unreal?

It always looked strange to me when i had poisoned things like weapon crates or cars in Champions Online, but on the other hand its simply fair from a balance view, and who cares really about realism in a Fantasy or Superhero Game ?

this shouldnt ever happen because:

1. Critical Hits dont affect objects either, making any investment in precision or crit damage, wasted. Power is the only viable stat and at a bare minimum , teams should be expected to have some power. Also these objects die fast to ele aoe’s making ele a good class for them which is nice to see.

2. On world bosses, while conditions continue to tick away as normal on them (Meta Group Event bosses like Dragons, FE, Wurm, Etc..) again, they are immune to critical hits, making precision and critical damage utterly useless, while power and conditions still work.

It really should be a “fixed hit” HP. Basically, an object should have “50 hits to break”, and regardless of your build (even if you’re full tank build), you should be able to destroy the object as well as anyone else.

Katai’s idea sounds better than any type of attempt to balance critical hits affecting objects and condition damage affecting objects. I would like to see a little variance though, possibly scaling upon the tier gear possibly since realistically, someone in blues should not kill things same speed as fully ascended. Or variance in a very minor way, but still sticking to the core idea of “Fixed 50 hits”

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Its immersion breaking for many. A post can’t bleed, it has no blood, and there is precedent for the handling of things like this. Destroyer foes don’t burn, for example. They are immune to burning because they are fire (makes sense logically). Logically, they have a higher resistance to fire based attacks as well. We have foes that are immune to bleeding (think it was an earth elemental I’m thinking of, I’ll have to double check later), to blind (dredge), to stun, etc.
…

Edit: On a side note, Golems are simply robots, they can ‘bleed’ in a sense. Although their ‘blood’ is lubricant – oil, or hydrolic fluid, or whatever. Ever seen Short Circuit? When the robot gets damaged, they say he’s “bleeding,” same concept.

But those are outliers. The only fire based creatures that cannot be burned are a very few destroyers, I believe only 4 or so of the dozen and a half destroyer types are immune to burning, and even then Megadestroyer himself is not immune to burning. All fire elementals are also not immune to burning. And of course none of them are immune to fire damage.

As for bleeding I have yet to encounter an enemy that is immune, and that goes for earth elementals as well as ice, fire, and air elementals.

My point is that if we can burn a fire elemental, We can bleed a rock elemental, and we can poison a golem. If we can burn a lightning elemental, fear the undead, and bleed Ice, and do all three bleeding, poison, and burning… to a ghost!

Why cant we also bleed a wood post or a catapult?

Does it make sense? Nope but neither do any of the others. Sometimes you forgo logic and reason to enhance gameplay and while I agree there are limits to this sort of thing that line has already been crossed in this very game because of the reasons already mentioned, mostly because Anet rightfully believes that it wouldn’t be fun to have to swap specs every instance or zone because XYZ mobs are immune to your current spec.

I always say that it’s like GTA not making us fuel our cars every 250 miles, sure it doesn’t make sense. But the gameplay value outweighs the need for realism.

They could just make it so conditions deal some percentage of their damage to structures immediately. It would make CDmg builds much less annoying in PvE.

Enigneer runs around with flamethrower

“we have to light the fires to get the wall down”

Engineer have to pick up a torch to light em.

Makes perfect sense

But if condition dmg is suppose to be a big part of the game and something you can spec as your main dmg then maybe its important to make sure its as needed as power specs.

Where it failed

25 bleed cap

Part of the 25 bleed cap problem is quickness making you ram hard into the cap and even faster with other condition adding classes.

objects

Dmg boosting events ( boss fights example fractal part where ice boss is hit by melting lava? and your POWER dmg is boosted ) Heavily favors power specs

So yeah while they fix the object issue it would be lovely to have all the remaining issues fixed.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Well making a weapon rack bleed is kind of….unreal?

Don’t think of ‘bleeds’ so literally. Perhaps the Necro ability causes cell structures to break down and hence bleeding occurs. That effect could be uses on any object.

Nobody knows how it works, its just a game, but it certainly effects condition builds (yet another thing) and should change to bring them up to par with power builds.