Guild Wars 2

I like revenant, but don’t like herald.
I like ranger, but don’t like druid.
I like mesmer, but don’t like chronomancer.
See the problem?
Was it intended to change class roles with elite specs and only offer 1 elite spec per prof that was way more powerful than any combination of core specs? It’s been a year and it’s infuriating.

Elite specs are designed to be more powerful, so it will work better in an expansion or two when we have multiple choices, but base specs will always be underpowered when you want to be competitive or into hard content. You can still play base classes in non-raid PvE, even in HoT.

Has to be

The proof is in the Chronomancer
Elites change things namely the F1 skills you’d think however in the Chronomancer it changes nothing the F1-F4 skills are the same and instead they added an extra button the F5. They gutted clone death from the game and pushed the entire build to shatter then gave the chrono and extra shatter making it strictly betterthan the mesmer because the chrono doesn’t take away or changes anything from the Mesmer but rather adds on to it’s existing capabilities.

You don’t create an elite like the chrono unless you planned for elites to be superior. Some people think the next ones will be in line with the old but their is no precidence for such a thing the new surpassed the old and the only evidence we have is what we have seen and felt so it we can only predict more of the same until they show us something to counter these claims. Their word doesn’t matter because they stated the first elites would be on par which they weren’t. So more than likely the next elites will surpass the old elites just like the old elites surpassed the core.

Because a stronger and overall superior class locked behind a paywall is the easiest way to get people to pay to get over that paywall. They’ll either nerf the currents into the ground when HoT becomes free or raise the new one ever so higher during that time.

Doam.8305:

Because a stronger and overall superior class locked behind a paywall is the easiest way to get people to pay to get over that paywall.

That’s what’s scariest.
I remember when i got Burning Crusade for WoW: a whole new world to explore, 2 new races and classes, new crafting professions…

For the same price, HoT has more convenient movement (gliding) to offer. Putting the new professions on steroids was clearly the best they could come up with.

The thing about elite specs is that there’s really no way to make them “balanced” with the core trait lines, because 2 core+ elite will always be better than 3 core for straight-up mechanical reasons (upgraded profession mechanic, new weapon, new skills). The only way this wouldn’t be the case is if the elite were objectively worse than the core trait lines, and then no one would use it at all.

I’m pretty sure Anet realized that pretty quickly, and decided balancing elites against each other was the logical path. That’s why they’re designed to be balanced against other elite specs (you can only equip one, and the weapon/skills require the trait line to be equipped), even though we only have one right now.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

The thing about elite specs is that there’s really no way to make them “balanced” with the core trait lines, because 2 core+ elite will always be better than 3 core for straight-up mechanical reasons (upgraded profession mechanic, new weapon, new skills). The only way this wouldn’t be the case is if the elite were objectively worse than the core trait lines, and then no one would use it at all.

They somewhat solved the problem with the Druid. Non-Druid Rangers are top in condition DPS, while Druid Rangers are top Healers.

In my opinion that’s how all Elite Specs should’ve been. Providing new roles for all the professions instead of augmenting their current ones. And more importantly, nerfing abilities of core specs then adding similar ones to the elite specs was the worst possible move they could’ve made. Like how they nerfed Acrobatics trait line for thieves then gave Daredevil access to more evasion.

Kecal.3964:

Elite specs are designed to be more powerful, so it will work better in an expansion or two when we have multiple choices, but base specs will always be underpowered when you want to be competitive or into hard content.

You do know that Anet has explicitly stated that elite specs were designed to be sidegrades and not upgrades right? The term ‘elite’ does not come from the fact that they were designed to be better than core specs but from the fact that they offer a new weapon type, new skins, new utility/healing/elite skills, that you can only have one at a time and so on in addition to traits.

Of course whether they intended it that way and they failed or whether their stated intentions were different from their real intentions is something we can only guess.

Diovid.9506:

Kecal.3964:

Elite specs are designed to be more powerful, so it will work better in an expansion or two when we have multiple choices, but base specs will always be underpowered when you want to be competitive or into hard content.

You do know that Anet has explicitly stated that elite specs were designed to be sidegrades and not upgrades right? The term ‘elite’ does not come from the fact that they were designed to be better than core specs but from the fact that they offer a new weapon type, new skins, new utility/healing/elite skills, that you can only have one at a time and so on in addition to traits.

Of course whether they intended it that way and they failed or whether their stated intentions were different from their real intentions is something we can only guess.

Yes, that is what they said. However Kecal is correct. The designs of the elite specs are more powerful.

At this point I believe that it is entirely possible that Doam is correct and new elite specs will be designed to surpass existing elites in order to drive sales.

One way they could fix/change this, is to take one of the existing core traitlines and “upgrade” it to a specialization line. Probably easier for some classes than others, but for Guardian for example the Virtues line would work very well with this.

This means they could beef up Virtues a little bit to be on par with Dragonhunter, and you’d have to pick ONE of them, not both at the same time, thus also weakening DH a bit. Virtues also changes a good bit on how the class mechanic works etc.

Main disadvantage I see to this, is that it probably means you couldn’t use Virtues while leveling until level 71 when you unlock the spez slot ?

Elite:

1. a select part of a group that is superior to the rest in terms of ability or qualities:

synonyms: best · pick · cream · crème de la crème · flower ·
[more]

Zatoichi.1049:

Elite:

1. a select part of a group that is superior to the rest in terms of ability or qualities:

synonyms: best · pick · cream · crème de la crème · flower ·
[more]

Maybe that’s why it was named elite. Rather than open up build options like secondary profs in GW1, this new system in GW2 completely pigeon holes professions into roles…
… except for the celestial elementalist. The saving grace of this game.

lol I just realized something GW2 is actually the anti-GW. It does everything opposite to what GW did. It all makes sense now.

Redfeather.6401:

Zatoichi.1049:

Elite:

1. a select part of a group that is superior to the rest in terms of ability or qualities:

synonyms: best · pick · cream · crème de la crème · flower ·
[more]

Maybe that’s why it was named elite. Rather than open up build options like secondary profs in GW1, this new system in GW2 completely pigeon holes professions into roles…
… except for the celestial elementalist. The saving grace of this game.

lol I just realized something GW2 is actually the anti-GW. It does everything opposite to what GW did. It all makes sense now.

Because no one every complained that skills like pain inverter or necrosis, or save yourselves in GW 1 were must have skills to get through certain content. No one ever said if you’re not a paragon/warrior with save yourselves, you’re not getting into my DOA team. No one ever said, LF rank 8 ursan.

I used to try to participate in pugs for underworld and DOA and people wanted I-way or sabway, or amway or 600 monks.

Some people just insist on those rose colored glasses.

Edit: You know the more I think about it this is pretty much exactly what they did in Guild Wars 1, as least as far as PvE was concerned. In PvE you could use 8 skills but you could only use 3 PVE only skills. Those skills were more powerful than anything you could put on your bar. That’s 3 out of 8 skills or roughly 1/3. In Guild Wars 2 they’re just doing the same thing with traits that were done with skills, but its’ the same thing. And I remember many complaining about the power creep or having to have certain skills on their bars.

There were other skills that also were must haves. Minion masters had to have that skill that summoned minions even if there wasn’t a corps, I don’t know a lot of rits that didn’t use signet of spirits (how could you not) and of course the only really viable paragon build was imbagon.

Yep, this isn’t the opposite of what Guild Wars 1 did at all…at least for PvE.

Edit 2: You can’t really compare elite specs to secondary professions because one was in the game at launch, where as we’re talking about something added with expansions, much like the PvE only skills I’m talking about.

Vayne.8563:

Yep, this isn’t the opposite of what Guild Wars 1 did at all…at least for PvE.

Yeah. It was even worse in GW1 because those PVE-only skills of Eotn were used by everyone regardless of profession so in effect you didn’t even need a profession, everyone could use the exact same ultra powerful build.

3 PVE-only skills, “You move like a Dwarf!”, Ebon Vanguard Assassin support and “Finish Him!”. Then you get a secondary Assassin for Assassin’s Promise elite (or primary if you were primary Assassin) and that was the top build for PVE for a player character. Get 7 heroes for the other spots and just faceroll. You could fit the rest of the bar with literally any skill you wanted, but half the time you’d be using those 4 and forget the rest of your bar even exist.

Redfeather.6401:

I like revenant, but don’t like herald.
I like ranger, but don’t like druid.
I like mesmer, but don’t like chronomancer.
See the problem?
Was it intended to change class roles with elite specs and only offer 1 elite spec per prof that was way more powerful than any combination of core specs? It’s been a year and it’s infuriating.

That’s your problem, not everyone’s problem.

Players complained about easy content, so the devs made more difficult content and elites that were up to the task. The devs, after 3 years, finally made quality profession improvements to fill in role and weapon gaps to professions.

The devs are not going to back track on elites, and more are coming, so it’s time to get over what was implemented a year ago and move on. If you have issues with core stuff then post your suggestions to improve them in the professions section like the rest of us.

My main annoyance with the system is that I can’t level with the new weapon Love making new toons to try out new weapons and skills etc that I haven’t played much with. This new specialization system means I have to hit level 80 before I can even use the weapon and skills etc.

I understand the why, and the reason it is done as it is etc. Doesn’t mean I have to like it

But still hoping they actually make an effort to balance the Spez with the core traits etc, but at this stage even if they did, the whole “Elites are cheese!” is inbreed in the players, so gw2 players will spend the next 5 years screaming that they hate all elite’s ever when they lose to one in pvp/wvw etc.

Doam.8305:

They’ll either nerf the currents into the ground when HoT becomes free or raise the new one ever so higher during that time.

I believe that this will be the case. That they will nerf the current elite specs down right before the next expac hits so that the new elites coming out will look that much stronger by comparison… as a selling point.

Redfeather.6401:

I like revenant, but don’t like herald.
I like ranger, but don’t like druid.
I like mesmer, but don’t like chronomancer.
See the problem?
Was it intended to change class roles with elite specs and only offer 1 elite spec per prof that was way more powerful than any combination of core specs? It’s been a year and it’s infuriating.

Yes, the problem lies with you.

What don’t you like about these specs? Simpy saying you don’t like them is 100% useless information.

Ashen.2907:

Diovid.9506:

Kecal.3964:

Elite specs are designed to be more powerful, so it will work better in an expansion or two when we have multiple choices, but base specs will always be underpowered when you want to be competitive or into hard content.

You do know that Anet has explicitly stated that elite specs were designed to be sidegrades and not upgrades right? The term ‘elite’ does not come from the fact that they were designed to be better than core specs but from the fact that they offer a new weapon type, new skins, new utility/healing/elite skills, that you can only have one at a time and so on in addition to traits.

Of course whether they intended it that way and they failed or whether their stated intentions were different from their real intentions is something we can only guess.

Yes, that is what they said. However Kecal is correct. The designs of the elite specs are more powerful.

At this point I believe that it is entirely possible that Doam is correct and new elite specs will be designed to surpass existing elites in order to drive sales.

Which is why their income fell and people stopped playing. We were either deliberately lied to as customers or ANet is just doing a horrible job with implementing new professions and is not taking the necessary steps to fix them.

If the next round are more powerful than the current ones, I’m definitely leaving for sure. Too many gimmicks in this game as it is. Half of the elites play themselves or come close to it.

The only elite I actually like is the reaper, because it actually did what it was supposed to do and didn’t just make the necro stronger but changed what it was good/weak at with a big playstyle change.

I just really miss secondary profs is all. Guild Wars 1 allowed me to expand how I could play my character, and that in turn allowed me to replay content in different ways. I personally sunk tons of hours into GW1 because of that ability.

It feels like GW2 abandoned that idea, or perhaps it wasn’t even on Anet’s radar that certain players in GW1 replayed content using different secondary profs to increase the game’s longevity.

As it feels right now, GW2 has so many roadblocks to someone like me who enjoys replaying content in different ways. Up to 14 pieces of equipment need to be changed, builds can’t be saved as templates, and there is such a limited number of truly workable builds available due to the gear/sigil/rune/trait/skill imbalance. The more I think about it, the more I see the core aspect of GW1’s key to content longevity simply fleeting away into nothingness.

@ Redfeather.6401

I’ve ended up playing mostly with Celestial stats because of just that, I’m sick of swapping stats back and fort for different things. Most of my toons now play with Celestial armor + traveler runes. And weapons/trinkets a bit more mixed, since I’ve collected up a good bunch of different ascended trinkets, so I can swap them out without much cost for myself.

My way of getting around the constant re-gearing issue in the game.

Personally wish they tied all the stats into just the Trinkets, so I only had to change trinkets to change stats. And keep armor/weapons for the defense/attack, runes/sigils, and skins instead. Would actually help a bit with the same.