Guild Wars 2

callidus.7085:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

callidus.7085:

The people I play with are all in instances anyway, if we were all in the same instance it would actually bring us together not drive us apart. The current dungeons are keeping us apart in smaller groups.

Valid, but some people prefer the smaller group instances, while others prefer larger group instances. Some prefer open world. It is much easier to find 5 people for an instance than it is to find 20+, even in large guilds.

Sure, so what’s wrong with options? Why not allow dungeons to scale to suit all types?

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

callidus.7085:

Open world raids like Teq… Currently instead of waiting for people to join to do it (which is easy to get the people, there are whole guilds dedicated to doing this) you have to wait for a 2 hour timer. If it was instanced you could do it immediately.

Sure, you could do it immediately, and to slow you down Anet would then institute lock outs like WoW. This way it wasn’t done too often, nor did it become too rewarding.

Nothing wrong with being different.

Nothing wrong with being different, sure… But this isn’t just being different. You cannot schedule around this as well. It doesn’t start when you have time for it, it starts when it starts. If everyone I play with logs in at 8 and Teq just finished we have to wait 2 hours to do it… if these people only play 2 hours a night then it cannot be done by them ever. One of the great things about instances is that it’s there and ready for you when you’re ready, not when the game says it’s ready.

“Variety is the spice of life” I never said there was anything wrong with options, but you seem to forget a key point Anet has repeatedly made… they do not want to be just like every other game. Thus, they made certain decisions in their development of this game.

As such, I don’t think we’ll ever see ‘raiding’ in the WoW sense of the word, and Colin has already stated that it is highly unlikely that we will see dungeons for more than teams of 5, or even specific ‘hard modes’ for the existing dungeons. However, there is the chance that they change their mind down the road. We aren’t the developers, its not really our decision to make. We can ask, but that’s the extent of what we can do.

If you want a game with instanced raids, there are plenty of other games that offer them.

Edit: Additional note, I don’t think they world bosses should be on timers at all. I think they should be random, try scheduling around that. To be a ‘living’ world, things should not necessarily always have a definitive pattern and predictability.

callidus.7085:

cesmode.4257:

callidus.7085:

cesmode.4257:

Sanduskel.1850:

never please. if you want that go to wow.

Wildstar is coming. Go to that. I will be leaving GW2 behind for it most likely, pretty much because it takes arenanet months, or an entire year to realize the depth of their mistakes and to come up with any changes.

But yeah, Gw2 is not designed for instanced raiding. As Colin said, their whole design is based around open world dynamic event fighting where you work together as a community. instancing content off like this doesn’t bode well with that objective.

If the players that enjoy instances are already in instances… How does this work against that? They have instances, people who like instances will play in instances. They are already not in the open world. All this would do would allow those people who plan to be in an instance to play together… bringing one part of the community together instead of forcing them into small groups.

I think you are referring to personal story and dungeons. True. But thats the extent of it. Personal story, is..well personal. Dungeons are dungeons, a staple of any MMO. Aside from EVE, where the game is based around PVP and economy, if an MMO does not release with dungeons, its not worth its spit.

Concerning GW2 and instanced content outside of these two, Anet feels that giving too much instanced content would be counter to the core philosophy of the game: banding together in the open world to tackle the difficult challenges.

If you begin to instance the hardest, and most rewarding content, to a specific raid size(10,20,40), then this goes against the open-world style of play they are
trying to foster.

For this game, and this game only, I agree.

I am referring specifically to dungeons and fractals as the content the group I play with enjoys the most. What I would like does not need to be the hardest content, the most rewarding content or for a specific size. I would like scaling dungeons basically, but the real goal of this is to facilitate large (10-20) group instanced content. It may go against the play style they’re trying to foster if you’d like to think of it that way… but we’re already doing that. We’re already locked away in our dungeons and fractals. I’m merely suggesting that it’d be nice if we were provided options to play these instanced content together… is this such a bad thing?

Once again, understand what I’m saying and don’t read into things that are not there. I do not care if it is or is not difficult. I do not wish to see this be more rewarding than any other aspect of the game. The purpose is to facilitate large group instanced content, to allow me to play with ALL of my friends and guild mates, not a fraction of them.

I hear what youre saying. Im simply telling you a possible reason why Arenanet has not put this something like this into the game yet, as per Colin’s post in the Collab Dev thread.

If arenanet was a fan of instanced group/guild content, don’t you think they would have done it with guild missions instead of making it open world content?

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

If you want a game with instanced raids, there are plenty of other games that offer them.

I like this game. I LOVE this game. I played during the betas. I played GW1 since launch. I do however, with the group I play with, enjoy large group instanced PvE. I don’t believe the answer is for us to play a different game. The answer is wait to see if they come out with it or we just don’t get what we want. Well.. maybe they’ll move on, I can’t speak for them, but I don’t plan on going anywhere.

I’m not saying that what I’m asking for is the only thing I enjoy, merely that I DO enjoy it. I like the dungeons as they are now, best dungeon experience I’ve ever had (one of the reasons I would LOVE raids, I can only imagine how they’d handle it). I also enjoyed the open world experience, my first time through I wanted to explore everything and I still enjoy doing that from time to time… but my time in game is very limited so I can’t do everything.

cesmode.4257:

I hear what youre saying. Im simply telling you a possible reason why Arenanet has not put this something like this into the game yet, as per Colin’s post in the Collab Dev thread.

If arenanet was a fan of instanced group/guild content, don’t you think they would have done it with guild missions instead of making it open world content?

And I still hold out hope that they’ll be introduced, possibly as a guild mission. Possibly as scaling dungeons. Possibly as any number of things. It doesn’t need to be like other games, it just needs to facilitate large group instanced content so that the fights can be organized appropriately.

They don’t have to have it in game yet. They don’t have to have it in game ever. I don’t mind the game as it stands. It’s a great game. This is just something I would like. Something I would support if they wanted to put it in the game.

The problem with large group content and unique rewards is that for many people they either a) don’t want to play with large groups b) specifically came to GW2 because they couldn’t stand large group play c) don’t have the time to dedicate to a raid or d) don’t know enough people to even get a group together to attempt a raid.

I raided for years. I’m done with it. The only way I could see raids working in GW2 is if all rewards you got from the raid were obtainable on the solo level as well— which seems to be the opposite of what raid-supporters want. If there was a 25man instance that was difficult and required a lot of coordination but did not have any unique rewards then there would be no problem.

The problem comes in when the raiders want unique rewards to differentiate themselves from the non raiders (which is understandable). But what if someone wants that cool new staff skin, but uh oh, in order to get it you need to get together with 24 other people, get on a voice chat program, and dedicate hours out of your day. It would undo everything they are trying to accomplish with GW2. They already had a backlash with Ascended gear and Teq.

I play GW2 because I don’t want to play the traditional MMO (trinity, raids, quest givers, gear treadmill, discriminating rewards system).

I don’t believe for a second that the people who want raids simply want it for the added skill/difficulty. They want raiding for the phat lootz to show off to others who aren’t able to coordinate and complete a raid. I bet you if they released a 25man raid but all of the rewards you could get from it could also be obtained through laurels + gold, that raid would be a ghost town after the first week.

callidus.7085:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

If you want a game with instanced raids, there are plenty of other games that offer them.

I like this game. I LOVE this game. I played during the betas. I played GW1 since launch. I do however, with the group I play with, enjoy large group instanced PvE. I don’t believe the answer is for us to play a different game. The answer is wait to see if they come out with it or we just don’t get what we want. Well.. maybe they’ll move on, I can’t speak for them, but I don’t plan on going anywhere.

I’m not saying that what I’m asking for is the only thing I enjoy, merely that I DO enjoy it. I like the dungeons as they are now, best dungeon experience I’ve ever had (one of the reasons I would LOVE raids, I can only imagine how they’d handle it). I also enjoyed the open world experience, my first time through I wanted to explore everything and I still enjoy doing that from time to time… but my time in game is very limited so I can’t do everything.

I understand. However, large group play doesn’t have to be locked into an instance though. From my understanding of what Colin said at PAX, they don’t want to lock large group play into instances, for a variety of reasons. They want to do more of the open world large group stuff, like tequatl, like guild missions. To bring ‘the world’ together. To make being in a large guild more meaningful. Etc. Etc. I sort of think that would be awesome if they succeed.

Draknar.5748:

The problem with large group content and unique rewards is that for many people they either a) don’t want to play with large groups b) specifically came to GW2 because they couldn’t stand large group play c) don’t have the time to dedicate to a raid or d) don’t know enough people to even get a group together to attempt a raid.

I raided for years. I’m done with it. The only way I could see raids working in GW2 is if all rewards you got from the raid were obtainable on the solo level as well— which seems to be the opposite of what raid-supporters want. If there was a 25man instance that was difficult and required a lot of coordination but did not have any unique rewards then there would be no problem.

The problem comes in when the raiders want unique rewards to differentiate themselves from the non raiders (which is understandable). But what if someone wants that cool new staff skin, but uh oh, in order to get it you need to get together with 24 other people, get on a voice chat program, and dedicate hours out of your day. It would undo everything they are trying to accomplish with GW2. They already had a backlash with Ascended gear and Teq.

I play GW2 because I don’t want to play the traditional MMO (trinity, raids, quest givers, gear treadmill, discriminating rewards system).

I don’t believe for a second that the people who want raids simply want it for the added skill/difficulty. They want raiding for the phat lootz to show off to others who aren’t able to coordinate and complete a raid. I bet you if they released a 25man raid but all of the rewards you could get from it could also be obtained through laurels + gold, that raid would be a ghost town after the first week.

If you read any of what I wrote, what I and the people I play with want, is large group instanced content for the sake of doing it together. Allow it to give a random dungeon token so the rewards aren’t unique for all I care, as long as they are equally rewarding.

Maybe we’re outliers, I don’t know. I just REALLY want to get the point across that not EVERYONE asking for raids wants it for the reasons you think. It could vary greatly from person to person or group to group.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

callidus.7085:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

If you want a game with instanced raids, there are plenty of other games that offer them.

I like this game. I LOVE this game. I played during the betas. I played GW1 since launch. I do however, with the group I play with, enjoy large group instanced PvE. I don’t believe the answer is for us to play a different game. The answer is wait to see if they come out with it or we just don’t get what we want. Well.. maybe they’ll move on, I can’t speak for them, but I don’t plan on going anywhere.

I’m not saying that what I’m asking for is the only thing I enjoy, merely that I DO enjoy it. I like the dungeons as they are now, best dungeon experience I’ve ever had (one of the reasons I would LOVE raids, I can only imagine how they’d handle it). I also enjoyed the open world experience, my first time through I wanted to explore everything and I still enjoy doing that from time to time… but my time in game is very limited so I can’t do everything.

I understand. However, large group play doesn’t have to be locked into an instance though. From my understanding of what Colin said at PAX, they don’t want to lock large group play into instances, for a variety of reasons. They want to do more of the open world large group stuff, like tequatl, like guild missions. To bring ‘the world’ together. To make being in a large guild more meaningful. Etc. Etc. I sort of think that would be awesome if they succeed.

Teq was a great start but it requires too many people, doesn’t scale down and you have to wait which you can’t plan around like ive said. If they could make large group oriented content that scaled well from 10-80 ppl and didn’t require us to stand around in a zone “waiting to have fun” then I suppose that’d work too. And not have resources be grief able (once again, the turrets) which would limit fight mechanics (not so cool).

Tobbygnome.6793:

Why not 25 player dungeons :P imagine doing CoF P1 with 25 people, where mobs/bosses health scaled up and got new abilities :P

haha, just a silly idea

Sounds pretty fun to me.

I can guarantee you within one month of “raid” content:

“The rewards aren’t worth it! Why have us do this increased difficulty content for exotics and ascended that I can craft or find in the open world? Kitten rewards. Anet SUXXX!!!”

Here is what I want for “raid” content.

One of 2 ways of implementation

I want a dungeon instance where once it is “activated” by a guild member (similar to how you activate guild puzzles…hit a button on the wall) a 5 minute timer starts. Any groups or individuals who are part of the guild who join during that time-frame are included in the dungeon and it scales depending on how many people join during that time-frame. This would allow whole guilds to join the same dungeon and do it together….whether they were small guilds or large guilds…this dungeon could be accomplished by 6 people or as many as 400 all depending on the guild-members that join prior to it starting. After the 5 minutes, the door closes and the dungeon begins…and the next group could start another instance by clicking the button. The technology for this is already in the game with the guild puzzles…as well as the timers that were used for scarlet invasions…these mechanics exist.

The other way I could see it being done is by using the “squad” functions of a commanders tag in the open world. Allow this to be used in the open world and then again make a dungeon that a squad could join as long as they were all attached to the same commander who started the instance….this technology is also already in the game in WvW…it would just extend it into the open world and give an additional function to the squad leader (start an instance). Again this instance should be scalable from 6 to the maximum a squad can handle (25?).

A final possibility is a raid type dungeon that simply has a timer. It starts every hour on the hour and stays open for 5 minutes…anyone who enters during that time is part of that dungeon and can go together…this would mean a lot less structure to the groups (cannot pick your people like you could with guild or squad) but would allow a lot of solo players (not part of guild or squad) to still enjoy raid content. This is kind of the “open world instance” kind of model that once again should scale from 6-400 depending on the amount of people that join during the “signup” period.

If ANET implemented raiding in any of the above ways….I would be all for it…since it allows for groups to do this content without having to join a “raid party”. The reason I always start the scaling at 6 players is simply to differentiate it from “normal” dungeons…these require a little bit more players, more coordination than simple party mechanics. The reason I don’t start it at 25-40 players is that I do not want to alienate the small guilds in the game…small guilds love to do things together also…and they might not have 25 people….but most have more than 5.

chemiclord.3978:

I can guarantee you within one month of “raid” content:

“The rewards aren’t worth it! Why have us do this increased difficulty content for exotics and ascended that I can craft or find in the open world? Kitten rewards. Anet SUXXX!!!”

Yeah .. and if we don’t get better rewards aka gear with better stats .. why should we do all that “hard work” .. then we can do it better just the easy way.

chemiclord.3978:

I can guarantee you within one month of “raid” content:

“The rewards aren’t worth it! Why have us do this increased difficulty content for exotics and ascended that I can craft or find in the open world? Kitten rewards. Anet SUXXX!!!”

Look at all my prior posts. I don’t believe those will ever be words that I type. Maybe some people might think like that but I think this would also satisfy a large group of players as well.

Draknar.5748:

The problem with large group content and unique rewards is that for many people they either a) don’t want to play with large groups b) specifically came to GW2 because they couldn’t stand large group play c) don’t have the time to dedicate to a raid or d) don’t know enough people to even get a group together to attempt a raid.

I raided for years. I’m done with it. The only way I could see raids working in GW2 is if all rewards you got from the raid were obtainable on the solo level as well— which seems to be the opposite of what raid-supporters want. If there was a 25man instance that was difficult and required a lot of coordination but did not have any unique rewards then there would be no problem.

The problem comes in when the raiders want unique rewards to differentiate themselves from the non raiders (which is understandable). But what if someone wants that cool new staff skin, but uh oh, in order to get it you need to get together with 24 other people, get on a voice chat program, and dedicate hours out of your day. It would undo everything they are trying to accomplish with GW2. They already had a backlash with Ascended gear and Teq.

I play GW2 because I don’t want to play the traditional MMO (trinity, raids, quest givers, gear treadmill, discriminating rewards system).

I don’t believe for a second that the people who want raids simply want it for the added skill/difficulty. They want raiding for the phat lootz to show off to others who aren’t able to coordinate and complete a raid. I bet you if they released a 25man raid but all of the rewards you could get from it could also be obtained through laurels + gold, that raid would be a ghost town after the first week.

discriminating reward system huh? Hate to break it to you but that sort of thing is already ingame.

Fractals= faster and most sensible way to obtain rings and ascended backs. Only way to get a fractal skin.

Explorable dungeons= only way to get dungeon skins.

WvW= invader skins (sure ap chest give badges, but can really plan to have that as your only source, going to need to WvW)

Edit: can’t forget legendaries. Those are locked behind everything including dungeons, well…if you are crafting them anyway.

That stuff is basically locked behind content. Won’t count LS dungeon drops so far because they could be sold on TP. Monocle/TA weapons/Molten Jetpacks are examples of those.

Raiding having it’s own skins for armor/weapons, crafting supplies, backs, recipes so on and so forth would be no different than things already in place.

Akari Storm.6809:

Draknar.5748:

The problem with large group content and unique rewards is that for many people they either a) don’t want to play with large groups b) specifically came to GW2 because they couldn’t stand large group play c) don’t have the time to dedicate to a raid or d) don’t know enough people to even get a group together to attempt a raid.

I raided for years. I’m done with it. The only way I could see raids working in GW2 is if all rewards you got from the raid were obtainable on the solo level as well— which seems to be the opposite of what raid-supporters want. If there was a 25man instance that was difficult and required a lot of coordination but did not have any unique rewards then there would be no problem.

The problem comes in when the raiders want unique rewards to differentiate themselves from the non raiders (which is understandable). But what if someone wants that cool new staff skin, but uh oh, in order to get it you need to get together with 24 other people, get on a voice chat program, and dedicate hours out of your day. It would undo everything they are trying to accomplish with GW2. They already had a backlash with Ascended gear and Teq.

I play GW2 because I don’t want to play the traditional MMO (trinity, raids, quest givers, gear treadmill, discriminating rewards system).

I don’t believe for a second that the people who want raids simply want it for the added skill/difficulty. They want raiding for the phat lootz to show off to others who aren’t able to coordinate and complete a raid. I bet you if they released a 25man raid but all of the rewards you could get from it could also be obtained through laurels + gold, that raid would be a ghost town after the first week.

discriminating reward system huh? Hate to break it to you but that sort of thing is already ingame.

Fractals= faster and most sensible way to obtain rings and ascended backs. Only way to get a fractal skin.

Explorable dungeons= only way to get dungeon skins.

WvW= invader skins (sure ap chest give badges, but can really plan to have that as your only source, going to need to WvW)

Edit: can’t forget legendaries. Those are locked behind everything including dungeons, well…if you are crafting them anyway.

That stuff is basically locked behind content. Won’t count LS dungeon drops so far because they could be sold on TP. Monocle/TA weapons/Molten Jetpacks are examples of those.

Raiding having it’s own skins for armor/weapons, crafting supplies, backs, recipes so on and so forth would be no different than things already in place.

Yep.. Although I wouldn’t NEED unique rewards from any “raid” (large group instanced) content, unique skins would be nice and that is how a lot of the game is differentiated.

The point the game tries to emphasize is that all content gives access to the same power level of equipment, BiS isn’t locked behind any content necessarily… but skins on the other hand ARE and probably will always be… and I like that. SAB skins are locked behind SAB, fractal skins are locked behind fractals, dungeon skins are locked behind dungeons etc.. this is the way I like it, I don’t need to do anything in particular to get the best gear to be competitive (ascended and legendary aside, lets not bring that in) but what I do enjoy doing can provide me unique rewards (looks).

Like I said, really the point of this whole thing for me is to have a way to run instanced content with more than 5 people, unique rewards for me would just be a bonus.

As a side note… I spent 40m last night trying to get in to the overflow with my guild mates to join for a teq fight. There were 8 of us. I got in, 2 others didn’t. We couldn’t just do it on another server, the requirement is too big for us to fulfill (ten fold). So I constantly click join for 40m to do a fight that lasts 15… I’d rather do a scaling dungeon for just us 8 where all of us will be able to join, we don’t need to wait and perhaps we can spend more time having fun (let this scaling dungeon last like an arah run, good ones can be 1hr) than waiting to have fun.

Oh, I’m totally with you on that. Open world is cool and casual. Guild Missions are bleh. Dungeons are decent, but I’ve run them hundreds of times. Fractals, same thing. Just want something like Raids for more guildies to do something together.

GW actually faired better in that regard. They had missions from 2mans-12mans with the standard lvl 20 stuff being 8mans. Even the zones themselves (since they were instanced) felt like dungeons to me.

Granted, in later years it became more about soloing with your heroes for everything unless you were doing portions of UW/FoW/Urgoz/Deep/DOA/SF.

Point is, I like raiding because it’s an option. I like having options. I like group content. Actual group content. Main reason I play themeparks.