Guild Wars 2

We saw it with the first round of Tequatl. We saw it with Halloween. We saw it with the Nightmare Tower. We saw it with the fractal rewards. And now we saw it with the world vs. world chest.

When is this issue finally going to be addressed? Why is only the most mindless content — Frostgorge Sound champion farming — the most rewarding?

I have a counter-question:

When will people stop thinking that the main reason to play games is to get “phat lootz” instead of having fun?

Is not having fun reward enough?

lordkrall.7241:

I have a counter-question:

When will people stop thinking that the main reason to play games is to get “phat lootz” instead of having fun?

Is not having fun reward enough?

Because getting good rewards makes the whole experience more fun and longer lasting.

It’s very basic game design. Once that big challenge is complete or those achievements are grinded down, it’s extremely satisfying knowing that something will be attained from it all.

Besides, what’s the downside to good rewards? I see people pose your opinion all the time, but they never explain why the “status quo” is a good thing. What damage would be done if the game was rewarding on top of being fun?

Ok, for this discussion to be productive, I think we need to remember that you can make things too rewarding as well as underwhelming. Where do you draw the line on both ends? That I feel is the more important question. A call simply for more rewards is going to be met with Anet saying well we can give you more but we feel we have been reasonable and measured thus far. If you have different standards, explain what you mean. Then we can talk about whether your suggestions, if you have any, are reasonable or unreasonable.

Edit: I agree that games should be fun too and not just about rewards, but I know some people will argue that you don’t have to have be all about one or the other. A mix of fun and reward is necessary to satisfy a broad demographic of players. And you can’t always pidgeonhole people into one group or another.

With all the data ArenaNet gets, it would be a fairly basic math problem to calculate how much gold the average player can make from farming Frostgorge Sound and applying that to the rest of the game. (And if Frostgorge is too rewarding, it should be brought down to prevent one set of players from making way more gold than the rest.)

The downside to “good” rewards is how easy they would be to get, and then what? You have everything you want, what else is there to do?

This ignoring that “rewards sucking” is completely your opinion.

If you are only playing for loot, try one of the single player games. For example, I used to play Morrowind and I had had a room full of top end, pricy armor and weapons that I stopped bothering to vendor. I had books, potions, mats and lock picks piled high. I had stacks of gold sitting on the floor once the gold in my inventory got to ridiculous levels. I had wayyyy more gold and loot piled up that I had any possible use for.

You can do that in single player games though. So what if I had millions in gold and piles of loot. In an mmorpg, the other players have to be factored in. If everyone makes incredible loot, then in no time at all that incredible loot is average. People will be posting on the forum, “what the heck ANet! I do the (whatever) and my reward was only 10 exotics!”

What would happen to the economy if everyone’s loot was incredible?

Lopez.7369:

lordkrall.7241:

I have a counter-question:

When will people stop thinking that the main reason to play games is to get “phat lootz” instead of having fun?

Is not having fun reward enough?

Because getting good rewards makes the whole experience more fun and longer lasting.

It’s very basic game design. Once that big challenge is complete or those achievements are grinded down, it’s extremely satisfying knowing that something will be attained from it all.

Besides, what’s the downside to good rewards? I see people pose your opinion all the time, but they never explain why the “status quo” is a good thing. What damage would be done if the game was rewarding on top of being fun?

Except you never mentioned the ‘when will the game start being fun’-you only focus on rewards so that betrays the illusion you’re trying to create that you don’t care only about the ‘leet loot’. I take it you don’t play any fighting game right? How about rts? Single player games (obviously non-item centric ones like diablo and such)? No? Didn’t think so. Good games of those genres use inherently compelling gameplay-not a carrot dangling from a stick to keep players engaged.

The problem with people who pose your opinion is you actually encourage bad/lazy game design; make a mundane, simplistic, brain dead dungeon but make the end item an epic and you’re all happy. Contrary to what you just posted people with your mindset don’t do dungeons/activities because they are fun and the rewards are just the icing on the cake-rather you do the dungeon only if the rewards tickle you in the right places; and that my friend, is prime grinding mentality.

This is not to say the current state is remotely fine, however I can’t help but think you misunderstand people who say ‘play the game for fun’. I think (assuming they’re not simple fanboys…we ignore fanboys) the point they were trying to make is: why do you want better items from doing boring tasks to continue to do more boring tasks; fix said tasks first THEN take a look at rewards.

Scratch what I said x)

Phy.2913:

The downside to “good” rewards is how easy they would be to get, and then what? You have everything you want, what else is there to do?

This ignoring that “rewards sucking” is completely your opinion.

This post appears to be ignoring that Frostgorge Sound already exists.

The rewards are “easy” — perhaps even mindless — to get through Frostgorge Sound. But they still take quite a long time to get. People aren’t popping out ascended and legendary gear just because Frostgorge Sound exists.

But there is one problem: Those people who do participate in Frostgorge Sound are getting the rewards much faster. So there is a huge imbalance in the playerbase right now based on whether someone wants to do the traditional aspects of the game — living story, dynamic events, dungeons, bosses — or farm champion mobs on a loop.

In that sense, it’s actually possible to objectively gauge whether an event is rewarding by weighing it against Frostgorge Sound. The questions players should be asking for objective measurements of rewards: How much gold can be obtained in Frostgorge Sound? How many unique skins can someone get over time with that gold?

The big question: Should the main selling points of the game — living story, dynamic events, dungeons, bosses — be less rewarding than what is likely an uninteded effect that came from the addition of champion bags?

WvW – Fun
Completeing WvW meta – Fun
Recieving Chest – Fun
Opening chest – Disappointment
If this all is for fun then give fun on all levels.
If your worried about giving good stuff to large playerbase at once, then put in stuff we cant sell, unique skin, makeover kit, black lion keys etc. But seriously what was this? 9 levels and dolyak mini was only cool things in there. And while i did most of meta just by playing i had to farm ruins, meanwhile i would`ve leveled 20 levels in place of those 9.
You could have at least placed that “Veteran of the Mists” title inside the chest so its less disappointing.

The rewards for a lot of these events have sucked, but they’ve been in line with the difficulty and time investment of getting them.

The real problem, is that all of the “new” content is just repetitive, boring, grindy terrible crap that isn’t fun, challenging or worth spending much time on.

What was the last fun and challenging content that was put in the game? Queen’s Gauntlet?

When will players stop begging for rewards and start pushing Anet to work on game play, combat, personality development, story etc?

Rewards in this game are all mental. You can do everything in blues. Those people that are doing the champ farm are just wasting their time, don’t make their mistake.

Lots of either-or and status quo fallacies in this thread. No one has explained why there has to be a choice between fun and rewards. Both can definitely go together, as basic game design dictates.

Blackmoon.6837:

When will players stop begging for rewards and start pushing Anet to work on game play, combat, personality development, story etc?

Been there, done that, hasn’t happened, and just about gave up.

lordkrall.7241:

I have a counter-question:

When will people stop thinking that the main reason to play games is to get “phat lootz” instead of having fun?

Is not having fun reward enough?

I play games for two reasons either a compelling story or loot.

Right now GW2 has neither the story is dominated by Trahearne starting in the Order Arc Pt4. I went a little further into the story and realized I am no longer the hero Trahearne is. I stopped playing story quest after that because its pointless I play MMO’s to be a hero not a side kick.

The loot is no better like the OP mentioned rewards have been lack luster while Gem story items have gotten nicer and nicer.

I know lots of people who feel the same way so I guess the game isnt for us because there no fun left in it. Fun is subjective I agree but when enough people stop having “fun” and leave then there will be no game left that’s not so subjective.