Guild Wars 2

Whats happening with games these days?
It seems more and more game companies, especially mmo’s appear to be making thier games (shall we say) “noob” friendly, with GW2 leading the charge, dont get me wrong i love this game, but all i seem to hear is people complaining that if somehting is too hard then it isnt fair.

Now im going to remind you older gamers about a forgotten gem. Ghouls ‘n’ Ghosts.
This was probably the hardest game of my childhood and if you noticed when playing if you found a part too hard then you would not be able to play the game at all, this is extreme yet fun at the same time, the key word their being fun, i understand that games need to be fun but GW2 has no CHALLENGE.

I had previously made a post about the legendary weapons needing a skill aspect to acquiring one, however this idea was shot down with comments such as, thats not fair to people who arent good at the game, well in all honesty as cruel as it sounds i dont believe they deserve one as the weapon is supposed to be “legendary”.

Can anyone point out any equipment or weapons that take real skill to acquire, if not i think my point stands.

I think it takes skill to get the Dungeon Master title. Maybe not as much skill as you’d like. In Guild Wars 1, I can’t think of many items you could get that required skill. Maybe the skins from the Historic mission pack when it was first released.

Hmm yeah not the skill i was thinking of but i see where youre coming from, you could be carried for that one, i just dont see why anet hasnt decided to satisfy both audiences by making skins that take skill to get to give specific prestige to gamers with skill,

Dont shoot me down here but i had played runescape for a while and i remember getting my fire cape which took immense skill and the prestige that came with it was amazing.

You compare Ghouls ‘n Ghosts to an MMO? MMO’s have never been as challenging as G’nG, if they were they’d never make any money. You’re looking in the wrong genre for challenging games, there are plenty of them out there though.

I think it takes at least some skill to get the Arah dungeon stuff. Not to say that you have to be superman, but Arah is no walk in the park.

its a combination of companies making accesable fun, repeatable content as opposed to tough one time stuff and also due to the player bases aging and just getting used to all the methods of ’’challenge’’ challenge comes from other huimans imo.

Need I remind you of the way MMO’s use to be?

1) spam an area for a group for several minutes/hours.
2) Meet group in one area of the map.
3) kill the same mob or mobs till you got bored and logoff.

yup, that was alot of fun

Hello,

Well the problem is with the complains that every type of gamer does in the forums, this is a battle that the developers won’t be able to win, EVER.

I too would love to have more challenging content, but we have to remember that there is still a big portion of the players that are “casual” (I think, that’s what it seems with all the “PLZ NERFFF” posts), or those who complain about not being able to do everything solo (I know it’s crazy, on a MULTIplayer onlline game…).

Anet should just keep doing the dungeons like the latest one, provide a way to solo it and a more challenging one for a team, hopefully that way everyone is pleased.

For the legendary weapons… idk I think that they’re ok right now, it’s something in which you have to do different aspects of the game and it’s something that the casual players can’t get without putting some effort. Placing some skill requirement in it would make it feel more legendary… but it’s not something that bothers me.

The Normal and Hard mode from GW1 would be awesome in here, Normal mode for dumbing down events and Hard mode for the challenging part.

DrixTrix.7168:

its a combination of companies making accesable fun, repeatable content as opposed to tough one time stuff and also due to the player bases aging and just getting used to all the methods of ’’challenge’’ challenge comes from other huimans imo.

This is where i have been getting my challenge atm and have decided to start making videos but there is no real way to record a skilled feat in pvp apart from video which is outside the game.

I 100% agree with this.

Simple solution idea: Hard- and Easy-Mode dungeons. Just power-up what is already there and have players chose that as hard mode option. That would be a quick, simple and temporarily satisfying way to give the more hardcore crowd something to chew on. More advanced mechanics can always be added later. Give the same token reward, but more gold and karma reward for the hard-mode dungeon to make it worth your time and effort. Maybe a guaranteed rare in the end-chest? Something like that.

I don’t understand why this is not yet implemented to be honest.

Which is more likely to get more legendaries out in the world?

1- Long boring grind with lots of luck in RNG
2- A fun challenge that one can practice to get skilled enough to complete.

I know many people who don’t even want an legendary just because it is a long boring grind and lots of luck through the RNG to get. But if it was a fun challenge that needs skill to complete, they will just practice till they get it completed.

Also Arenanet is not leading the charge in “noob” friendly, “noob” friendly has been going on for more then a decade, even EQ1 was “noob” friendly, it just wasn’t life friendly if you wanted to get anywhere in the game.

MMO as a Genre in general isn’t challenging, and has been like that since the beginning.

ghost.3208:

Hello,

Well the problem is with the complains that every type of gamer does in the forums, this is a battle that the developers won’t be able to win, EVER.

I too would love to have more challenging content, but we have to remember that there is still a big portion of the players that are “casual” (I think, that’s what it seems with all the “PLZ NERFFF” posts), or those who complain about not being able to do everything solo (I know it’s crazy, on a MULTIplayer onlline game…).

Anet should just keep doing the dungeons like the latest one, provide a way to solo it and a more challenging one for a team, hopefully that way everyone is pleased.

For the legendary weapons… idk I think that they’re ok right now, it’s something in which you have to do different aspects of the game and it’s something that the casual players can’t get without putting some effort. Placing some skill requirement in it would make it feel more legendary… but it’s not something that bothers me.

The Normal and Hard mode from GW1 would be awesome in here, Normal mode for dumbing down events and Hard mode for the challenging part.

yes i missed this from GW1 :C i loved that game and theyve left out so much and called it a sequel wtf? haha but the legendary, tbh you’re right it isnt that bothering to me because it is still a challenge just a different kind “I’m” looking for, i just don’t understand when games stopped making games difficult and started catering for people who are unable to play well, casual or not there should still be some opportunities to prove yourself,

players shouldn’t have to resort to doing things like solo lupi, things like that should be in the game to give less skilled players something to hope to achieve.

It isnt hard really to cater for everyone, you just need to supply each need without affecting the other, heres my example

I want dueling in open world but other people say duel requests are annoying (yes they are but they arent hard to ignore) i understand this however i see no reason why they are unable to add a duel arena where request can be made only in that area is beyond me, explain that pls xD

eisberg.2379:

Which is more likely to get more legendaries out in the world?

1- Long boring grind with lots of luck in RNG
2- A fun challenge that one can practice to get skilled enough to complete.

I know many people who don’t even want an legendary just because it is a long boring grind and lots of luck through the RNG to get. But if it was a fun challenge that needs skill to complete, they will just practice till they get it completed.

Also Arenanet is not leading the charge in “noob” friendly, “noob” friendly has been going on for more then a decade, even EQ1 was “noob” friendly, it just wasn’t life friendly if you wanted to get anywhere in the game.

MMO as a Genre in general isn’t challenging, and has been like that since the beginning.

i really dont understand how you came to that conclusion xD i want skill requirements and a long boring grind, i dont want people with legendaries who are bad at the game. they are LEGENDARY

i also dont understand why BiS equipment is earned from laurels that you can literally get just by logging in, now if that doesnt seem easy i dont know what is, seriously though this isnt even fun are you kidding me, bit late to the rage post but i just dont get who’s idea this was.

RedCobra.7693:

eisberg.2379:

Which is more likely to get more legendaries out in the world?

1- Long boring grind with lots of luck in RNG
2- A fun challenge that one can practice to get skilled enough to complete.

I know many people who don’t even want an legendary just because it is a long boring grind and lots of luck through the RNG to get. But if it was a fun challenge that needs skill to complete, they will just practice till they get it completed.

Also Arenanet is not leading the charge in “noob” friendly, “noob” friendly has been going on for more then a decade, even EQ1 was “noob” friendly, it just wasn’t life friendly if you wanted to get anywhere in the game.

MMO as a Genre in general isn’t challenging, and has been like that since the beginning.

i really dont understand how you came to that conclusion xD i want skill requirements and a long boring grind, i dont want people with legendaries who are bad at the game. they are LEGENDARY

It wouldn’t change anything. A skill challenge can be practiced till they get it, and it will end up that is the only thing they are good at, and still bad at the rest of the game. In WoW, I very rarely meet a player that had the highest end game gear, and or even a legendary weapon that was actually good at the game, I hated having raiders in my 5 mans, they were the worse players, they couldn’t do anything unless something was there to tell them when to to move, and when to attack or not, yet people thought they were the most skilled players, but in reality they just practiced over and over again at specific content till they passed it, but that practice did nothing for them in the rest of the game.

besides, I would say Legendary in this game just means that someone did a legendary feat of actually completing something so boring and had luck on their side.

Being legendary doesn’t necessarily mean that one is good or skilled at something.

RedCobra.7693:

i also dont understand why BiS equipment is earned from laurels that you can literally get just by logging in, now if that doesnt seem easy i dont know what is, seriously though this isnt even fun are you kidding me, bit late to the rage post but i just dont get who’s idea this was.

Literally? I don’t think that means what you think it means. There are so many days I have logged in, and never got a laurel, actually most days I don’t get a laurel. Even though I log in everyday, I still only get about 2 laurels per week. Guess I need to content arenanet to give me my laurels for just logging in. -.-

eisberg.2379:

RedCobra.7693:

i also dont understand why BiS equipment is earned from laurels that you can literally get just by logging in, now if that doesnt seem easy i dont know what is, seriously though this isnt even fun are you kidding me, bit late to the rage post but i just dont get who’s idea this was.

Literally? I don’t think that means what you think it means. There are so many days I have logged in, and never got a laurel, actually most days I don’t get a laurel. Even though I log in everyday, I still only get about 2 laurels per week. Guess I need to content arenanet to give me my laurels for just logging in. -.-

dude grow up, stop nitpicking at my post, understand sarcasm when you read it, yes i barely even need to try to get my laurels and i have the monthly yes MONTHLY done in the first three days.

“Being legendary doesn’t necessarily mean that one is good or skilled at something.”
i know this, this is my exact point. no create something that takes skill NOT something like a jumping puzzle.

Mm… this old game nostalgia is getting tiring, and I am almost certain that people fixate over certain titles too much, nor did they really partake in “classic” gaming as much as they thought.

Plenty of classic games were not ball bustingly difficult. Super Mario Bros wasn’t a cakewalk to the initiated but it was pretty easy if you knew about the warp zone workaround which didn’t take long. Mega Man has rather forgiving mechanics. Yes, the original one is the hardest, but it’s the sequel — a far more forgiving game that gets etched into memory But nobody will go "It’s too easy-- it’s a terrible game" Why? Playing the game itself was rewarding.

See, a lot of games during the NES days were hard, but nobody gives a kitten about them because they were frequently hard due to bugged mechanics and poor game design. Which is only natural— game design wasn’t as cemented as back then to what worked or not. Most were just concerned with churning shoddy products for quick $, something that never really changes, ever. Of course, there were a few true gems that were challenging and get remembered to this very day. But those are by far the exception to the rule— just because a bunch of no-namer games also killed you instantly for making the slightest mistake did not make it a good game.

See, a number of old games were made off the arcade model. You weren’t supposed to be playing it for long, so the game would find ways to kill you asap so the next in line could play. Obviously for reasons on longevity and the movement of video games to the home that this kind of gameplay would evolve. And point is, that the more repeatable content is, the easier it is. That’s just how it goes. And there are some games that aren’t meant to be “beaten” in the traditional sense. I hope people would realize that in a game like this where winning and losing aren’t concrete things outside of wvw and pvp. It would be like complaining Sim City is too easy.

Still, even keeping this in mind, modern games have failed to keep the tenets of what made older games work. Things such as responsive controls and intuitive, consistent mechanics are areas where many games today, including Guild Wars 2 are pretty pitiful in dealing with. For example, I only knew of not being able to equip 2 identical ascended rings through Diablo 3— otherwise I wouldn’t have known. I assume the game thought the term Unique would make sense to MMO players. But that’s a fatal assumption that takes too much for granted.

If you want to make Guild Wars 2 a better game, challenge is low on the list. I would recommend fixing the broken targeting and seizure camera first. As well as the abundance of misleading tooltips.

RedCobra.7693:

eisberg.2379:

RedCobra.7693:

i also dont understand why BiS equipment is earned from laurels that you can literally get just by logging in, now if that doesnt seem easy i dont know what is, seriously though this isnt even fun are you kidding me, bit late to the rage post but i just dont get who’s idea this was.

Literally? I don’t think that means what you think it means. There are so many days I have logged in, and never got a laurel, actually most days I don’t get a laurel. Even though I log in everyday, I still only get about 2 laurels per week. Guess I need to content arenanet to give me my laurels for just logging in. -.-

dude grow up, stop nitpicking at my post, understand sarcasm when you read it, yes i barely even need to try to get my laurels and i have the monthly yes MONTHLY done in the first three days.

“Being legendary doesn’t necessarily mean that one is good or skilled at something.”
i know this, this is my exact point. no create something that takes skill NOT something like a jumping puzzle.

Don’t use “sarcasm” to try and prove a point, it only shows that you have a weak argument and have to use “sarcasm” to make it look like your argument is stronger.

Again, doesn’t matter what is made that takes skill, it will only take practice to get it completed.

Folk.2093:

Need I remind you of the way MMO’s use to be?

1) spam an area for a group for several minutes/hours.
2) Meet group in one area of the map.
3) kill the same mob or mobs till you got bored and logoff.

yup, that was alot of fun

So you played Final Fantasy XI as well, huh? =D

RedCobra.7693:

snip

I can fully understand where you are coming from. I am on the wrong side of 30 and know full well what older games where like, I have also spent most of my multiplayer time in either full on fps games or in what woud be considered “hardcore” FFA, full loot sandbox mmos. BUT….

I’m not entirely sure your argument is really relevant here, this mmo is all about accessibility, the mainstream audience and pulling in casual players. Why is anyone expecting it to be some kind of bastion of difficulty?

So, for those who feel as the OP does, what actually constitutes challenge in an MMO? What constitutes skill? Does challenge consist of so much mob damage that any mistake means failure? Does skill mean perfect play? I see posts about dungeon groups where they seem to be demanding perfect play, but that seems more like the practice effect that eisberg refers to.

I’m honestly curious, because this game seems plenty challenging in spots. However, mob AI that can be predicted is always going to present little challenge once you’ve learned its moves — assuming the math is tuned so the encounter can be done at all.

IndigoSundown.5419:

So, for those who feel as the OP does, what actually constitutes challenge in an MMO? What constitutes skill? Does challenge consist of so much mob damage that any mistake means failure? Does skill mean perfect play? I see posts about dungeon groups where they seem to be demanding perfect play, but that seems more like the practice effect that eisberg refers to.

I’m honestly curious, because this game seems plenty challenging in spots. However, mob AI that can be predicted is always going to present little challenge once you’ve learned its moves — assuming the math is tuned so the encounter can be done at all.

I already answered this on your other thread but I’ll add something here. One hit kills are overboard on the skill challenge, mainly because lag can set you up to take that hit. But a mob than can 3 shot you and attacks pretty often would certainly be a good start, for me at least.

I don’t think a lot of classic MMO’s were really difficult, just tedious, and very punishing.

example: You’ve just been exping in a group for the past 2 hours, then end up getting killed become some monster spawned at a higher level than usual, and wouldn’t leave you alone, and you end up losing all the exp you made in the last hour.

example 2: The best loot is obtained by getting lucky on a roll after finishing a 2-3 hour+ raid, or having a lot….a lot, of in game cash.

There were a lot of encounters that some fairly clever and intelligent people had to figure out, and then tell everyone else, but other than that, I never seen MMO’s as the game to go to for challenge. (at least not in the form of game difficulty)

Actually, due to the dodge mechanic requiring good reflexes, and eye sight, GW2 is the hardest MMO I’ve ever played. (not counting Gw1)

Tolmos.8395:

IndigoSundown.5419:

So, for those who feel as the OP does, what actually constitutes challenge in an MMO? What constitutes skill? Does challenge consist of so much mob damage that any mistake means failure? Does skill mean perfect play? I see posts about dungeon groups where they seem to be demanding perfect play, but that seems more like the practice effect that eisberg refers to.

I’m honestly curious, because this game seems plenty challenging in spots. However, mob AI that can be predicted is always going to present little challenge once you’ve learned its moves — assuming the math is tuned so the encounter can be done at all.

I already answered this on your other thread but I’ll add something here. One hit kills are overboard on the skill challenge, mainly because lag can set you up to take that hit. But a mob than can 3 shot you and attacks pretty often would certainly be a good start, for me at least.

Thanks, mate. Iirc, you were the only one who answered in that thread, so thanks for that also. I assume that 3-shotting is relative to the amount of time it takes you to finish the fight? 3 shotting with 2 dodges, a block and a heal when it can get 8-10 hits off before you can kill it would be different than the other extreme, where it can only get 1-2 off.

Do you know the chicken event in Malchor’s? The new Veteran Chickens Shoot Egg ability is doing 3k to 4.5 K through 2580 armor, they use it every few seconds, the tell is similar to the one they use for their Peck ability which does much less, and the timing to dodge it is fairly tight. On FC, this event used to complete all the time. Now, I see that someone has maybe killed 1 of them, then left — presumably because it was too hard.

RedCobra.7693:

Hmm yeah not the skill i was thinking of but i see where youre coming from, you could be carried for that one, i just dont see why anet hasnt decided to satisfy both audiences by making skins that take skill to get to give specific prestige to gamers with skill,

Dont shoot me down here but i had played runescape for a while and i remember getting my fire cape which took immense skill and the prestige that came with it was amazing.

I remember playing runescape. It didn’t take skill. It took time. GW2 requires far greater skill than runescape ever did.

if you want a challenge don’t use good items. it’s the op’s own fault for not having any discipline.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Tolmos.8395:

IndigoSundown.5419:

So, for those who feel as the OP does, what actually constitutes challenge in an MMO? What constitutes skill? Does challenge consist of so much mob damage that any mistake means failure? Does skill mean perfect play? I see posts about dungeon groups where they seem to be demanding perfect play, but that seems more like the practice effect that eisberg refers to.

I’m honestly curious, because this game seems plenty challenging in spots. However, mob AI that can be predicted is always going to present little challenge once you’ve learned its moves — assuming the math is tuned so the encounter can be done at all.

I already answered this on your other thread but I’ll add something here. One hit kills are overboard on the skill challenge, mainly because lag can set you up to take that hit. But a mob than can 3 shot you and attacks pretty often would certainly be a good start, for me at least.

Thanks, mate. Iirc, you were the only one who answered in that thread, so thanks for that also. I assume that 3-shotting is relative to the amount of time it takes you to finish the fight? 3 shotting with 2 dodges, a block and a heal when it can get 8-10 hits off before you can kill it would be different than the other extreme, where it can only get 1-2 off.

Do you know the chicken event in Malchor’s? The new Veteran Chickens Shoot Egg ability is doing 3k to 4.5 K through 2580 armor, they use it every few seconds, the tell is similar to the one they use for their Peck ability which does much less, and the timing to dodge it is fairly tight. On FC, this event used to complete all the time. Now, I see that someone has maybe killed 1 of them, then left — presumably because it was too hard.

Er, I meant 2-3 shotting in relation to consecutive hits I can take without a heal. If you manage to land 2-3 blows on me and I can’t find a way to get my health back up, I die.

If they do this, though, I’d like to see 1 more endurance bar added to the gauge so we can dodge 3 times on a full bar.

Tolmos.8395:

Folk.2093:

Need I remind you of the way MMO’s use to be?

1) spam an area for a group for several minutes/hours.
2) Meet group in one area of the map.
3) kill the same mob or mobs till you got bored and logoff.

yup, that was alot of fun

So you played Final Fantasy XI as well, huh? =D

Nah, Everquest 1

Times are changing.

Looking it from my point situation, for example. Back when Ghouls n Ghosts was out (for the sega genesis), I was beggining high school, I had a LOT of free time. Spending 6 hours playing wasn’t unheard of, and some games you needed that amount of time to reach the ending, and if you didn’t, it was back on from the beggining (another of my favorite games from that era was battletoads, BTW, considered one of the hardest games ever made). You needed all that time because while games were relatively shorter, they were also much harder so doing things over and over until you mastered them was the way to do it.

Fast forward to today, 37 yeard old, married (to a non games wife, BTW), full time job, a 2 years old son to take care of and slowly working my way trough college at night to finish a degree I couldn’t finish before for reasons that aren’t relevant now. Getting an hour of game time a day is hard to do, uninterrupted, almost impossible (always after baby has gone to bed), getting enough time to do one of the long dungeons usually means planning in advance, and usually means the wife and son are out doing something else, so I’m really grateful to have games where I can get in, play a little bit, do some easy things here and there if I don’t have the time, while at the same time have some places to get a challenge if I feel like it and still have fun both ways.

I’m a member of a generation that grew with video games, and still game as an adult… and I’m not alone, I remember reading that the average age of video gamers was in the mid 30’s, which don’t have as much free time as someone much younger has, but has in average much more disposable income to spend in games, so makes sense for companies to target that demographic more.

Folk.2093:

Need I remind you of the way MMO’s use to be?

1) spam an area for a group for several minutes/hours.
2) Meet group in one area of the map.
3) kill the same mob or mobs till you got bored and logoff.

yup, that was alot of fun

Honestly, I would love for an old school MMO with a brutal leveling curve and unforgiving mechanics. By and large, those who made it to the level cap knew their class and how to play within a group. They were also rather dedicated to the game (and their class since re-rolling was out of the question for most who valued their sanity). Esentially, you got a better class of players in those games rather than every johnny come lately modern MMOs attract. Give me a game where you spend 6+ hours to get one bubble of XP and if you died an entire day (at least) was lost with modern graphics and deep mechanics and I would walk away from GW2 in a heart beat.

Phaedryn.3698:

Honestly, I would love for an old school MMO with a brutal leveling curve and unforgiving mechanics. By and large, those who made it to the level cap knew their class and how to play within a group. They were also rather dedicated to the game (and their class since re-rolling was out of the question for most who valued their sanity). Esentially, you got a better class of players in those games rather than every johnny come lately modern MMOs attract. Give me a game where you spend 6+ hours to get one bubble of XP and if you died an entire day (at least) was lost with modern graphics and deep mechanics and I would walk away from GW2 in a heart beat.

And I’m so thankful that MMOs aren’t like this anymore.

Back in days I remember playing 2d platformers for 2-3 hours straight just to get pass one level.
Now? Now what do we have?
Games that literally reward you for doing nothing, where people are lazy and want everything to be handled them for free with no work.

Nick.6972:

Back in days I remember playing 2d platformers for 2-3 hours straight just to get pass one level.
Now? Now what do we have?
Games that literally reward you for doing nothing, where people are lazy and want everything to be handled them for free with no work.

may I ask what those platformers where? Old games without saving can be completed in 2 hours in total and were 6 hours long max.

Tolmos.8395:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Tolmos.8395:

IndigoSundown.5419:

So, for those who feel as the OP does, what actually constitutes challenge in an MMO? What constitutes skill? Does challenge consist of so much mob damage that any mistake means failure? Does skill mean perfect play? I see posts about dungeon groups where they seem to be demanding perfect play, but that seems more like the practice effect that eisberg refers to.

I’m honestly curious, because this game seems plenty challenging in spots. However, mob AI that can be predicted is always going to present little challenge once you’ve learned its moves — assuming the math is tuned so the encounter can be done at all.

I already answered this on your other thread but I’ll add something here. One hit kills are overboard on the skill challenge, mainly because lag can set you up to take that hit. But a mob than can 3 shot you and attacks pretty often would certainly be a good start, for me at least.

Thanks, mate. Iirc, you were the only one who answered in that thread, so thanks for that also. I assume that 3-shotting is relative to the amount of time it takes you to finish the fight? 3 shotting with 2 dodges, a block and a heal when it can get 8-10 hits off before you can kill it would be different than the other extreme, where it can only get 1-2 off.

Do you know the chicken event in Malchor’s? The new Veteran Chickens Shoot Egg ability is doing 3k to 4.5 K through 2580 armor, they use it every few seconds, the tell is similar to the one they use for their Peck ability which does much less, and the timing to dodge it is fairly tight. On FC, this event used to complete all the time. Now, I see that someone has maybe killed 1 of them, then left — presumably because it was too hard.

Er, I meant 2-3 shotting in relation to consecutive hits I can take without a heal. If you manage to land 2-3 blows on me and I can’t find a way to get my health back up, I die.

If they do this, though, I’d like to see 1 more endurance bar added to the gauge so we can dodge 3 times on a full bar.

Based on hits on my character, the Vet Chickens would do 6-9k to half as much armor and more to a full-on glass cannon in light armor, and that would 2-3 shot some classes in GC spec. Outside of a few Champions, or fighting a lot of mobs, GW2 does not really offer that kind of pressure.

To be honest, there was never a real challenge in the game, it seemed challenging at first cause it was all new, but once it was learned it wasn’t really difficult at all, and with all the temp content being added it’s new for a day and the “fun” is there for maybe a week then the temp stuff is gone in a cpl weeks and then it’s new temp stuff but no real challenge.
I think the only real challenge in this game is sticking around and waiting for ESO.

Mirta.5029:

Nick.6972:

Back in days I remember playing 2d platformers for 2-3 hours straight just to get pass one level.
Now? Now what do we have?
Games that literally reward you for doing nothing, where people are lazy and want everything to be handled them for free with no work.

may I ask what those platformers where? Old games without saving can be completed in 2 hours in total and were 6 hours long max.

Can’t name you which ones they were, it was like 14+ years ago on SEGA.
I can give you other example though. Mirror’s Edge Time Challanges, I’ve played one single level for 3 hours just to get time that was required.

Mirta.5029:

Phaedryn.3698:

Honestly, I would love for an old school MMO with a brutal leveling curve and unforgiving mechanics. By and large, those who made it to the level cap knew their class and how to play within a group. They were also rather dedicated to the game (and their class since re-rolling was out of the question for most who valued their sanity). Esentially, you got a better class of players in those games rather than every johnny come lately modern MMOs attract. Give me a game where you spend 6+ hours to get one bubble of XP and if you died an entire day (at least) was lost with modern graphics and deep mechanics and I would walk away from GW2 in a heart beat.

And I’m so thankful that MMOs aren’t like this anymore.

I am not asking for all MMOs to be like this. Like most things, there is a place for each to exist side be side. GW2 for those who want casual, and something else for those of us that want to play with like minded people. Every MMO I have played has caved in and become more and more casual and, frankly, it has ruined the game. I just want one game that, at end game, you know that those who are there are competent and knowledgeable.

Vayne.8563:

I think it takes skill to get the Dungeon Master title. Maybe not as much skill as you’d like. In Guild Wars 1, I can’t think of many items you could get that required skill. Maybe the skins from the Historic mission pack when it was first released.

I hope you’re joking… I pugged this with zero issues shortly after launch. I can’t think of anyone that has had any issues pugging it. If you are having difficulties, I would suggest gw2lfg.com.
That is of course you are saying time=skill? It does take a bit of time.

RedCobra.7693:

Whats happening with games these days?
It seems more and more game companies, especially mmo’s appear to be making thier games (shall we say) “noob” friendly, with GW2 leading the charge, dont get me wrong i love this game, but all i seem to hear is people complaining that if somehting is too hard then it isnt fair.

Now im going to remind you older gamers about a forgotten gem. Ghouls ‘n’ Ghosts.
This was probably the hardest game of my childhood and if you noticed when playing if you found a part too hard then you would not be able to play the game at all, this is extreme yet fun at the same time, the key word their being fun, i understand that games need to be fun but GW2 has no CHALLENGE.

I had previously made a post about the legendary weapons needing a skill aspect to acquiring one, however this idea was shot down with comments such as, thats not fair to people who arent good at the game, well in all honesty as cruel as it sounds i dont believe they deserve one as the weapon is supposed to be “legendary”.

Can anyone point out any equipment or weapons that take real skill to acquire, if not i think my point stands.

I’m going to respond to this using Vanilla WoW as a reference point.

Games since around WotLK have gotten quicker and easier and it’s not a good thing.

The JOURNEY is a BIG part of the longevity of a game.
The CHALLENGE is a BIG part of the longevity of a game.

Leveling in a game should be a long long journey. Now again..a journey. NOT A GRIND. A journey.

In fact, it leveling should be where you spend 50-75% of the original game in play time. Leveling allows you to not only learn your characters abilities, but also the ins and outs of the class and your limits, both character and player.

Vanilla WoW had it very correct. Leveling took a looooong time. In fact, even if you did most of the zones, you usually ended up around level 57 and still had to run dungeons to hit 60. Most average players hit 60 around 6 months…some longer..much longer. Some shorter. You can’t included HC players because they are going to level as fast as possible. Ignore this group.

Encounters were HARD. Very hard. If you ran into a pack of mobs in Duskwood, you better be able to CC or control them and have a few people. Things took a while to do. Dying lost you experience..which taught you to be careful. Dungeons were hard. You couldn’t blast through them. They were big. There were multiple wings. And you needed skill and CC to complete them.

Gear was hard to come by. I remember when a Thrash Blade was acquired around level 45 and most of us used that till 60..even longer. Gold was hard to come by. If you saved up for an epic mount (1000 gold)…kitten you were admired by people.

Now remember one thing that WoW did wrong..and that was limiting the content of the game to 40+ raiders. That was logistics and accessibility.

Accessibility does not mean Easy. That’s one thing people love about GW2 is that you CAN see all the content with 5 people.

But right now, almost all games, especially MMOS are so easy and not challenging that the ‘feeling of accomplishment’ is gone. I went back to MoP and it wasn’t bad…but overall it was so ridiculously easy that you burn through the content and game in no time.

I don’t understand why GW2 made leveling so quick. I don’t understand why every game ‘rewards you XP’ you for mining, skinning, etc. They give you XP for exploring now.

Items drop too much. You get an item and it’s replaced hours later. You can buy things now.

There was nothing wrong with ‘vanilla’…some would say that’s always the best flavor.

Phaedryn.3698:

Mirta.5029:

Phaedryn.3698:

Honestly, I would love for an old school MMO with a brutal leveling curve and unforgiving mechanics. By and large, those who made it to the level cap knew their class and how to play within a group. They were also rather dedicated to the game (and their class since re-rolling was out of the question for most who valued their sanity). Esentially, you got a better class of players in those games rather than every johnny come lately modern MMOs attract. Give me a game where you spend 6+ hours to get one bubble of XP and if you died an entire day (at least) was lost with modern graphics and deep mechanics and I would walk away from GW2 in a heart beat.

And I’m so thankful that MMOs aren’t like this anymore.

I am not asking for all MMOs to be like this. Like most things, there is a place for each to exist side be side. GW2 for those who want casual, and something else for those of us that want to play with like minded people. Every MMO I have played has caved in and become more and more casual and, frankly, it has ruined the game. I just want one game that, at end game, you know that those who are there are competent and knowledgeable.

Remember…casual doesn’t mean that you don’t like a challenge.

I’m a ‘casual’ player in that I can only play X hours a night. But I love challenging and hard stuff, especially leveling, content, etc. I want long leveling, I want penalities for dying and so on.

I remember the 45 min baron run in WoW back in Vanilla. My friends and I were not raiders because we didn’t have time to spend 4 nights a week playing 5+ hours raiding. But we were skilled enough to do the 0.5 dungeon chains for the upgraded Tier 0 gear. That included the 45 min baron run, which the majority of players could not do. Heck I remember ‘raiders’ who were in these 40+ man guilds that couldn’t do a 45 min run.

Being in SW and wearing that gear showed you had skill. And YES, I agree that the game needs that. Grinding is not skill.

What you are describing is that they’ve reduced the games to ‘EASY’ mode. Not casual. Casual has nothing to do with it.

Phaedryn.3698:

Mirta.5029:

Phaedryn.3698:

Honestly, I would love for an old school MMO with a brutal leveling curve and unforgiving mechanics. By and large, those who made it to the level cap knew their class and how to play within a group. They were also rather dedicated to the game (and their class since re-rolling was out of the question for most who valued their sanity). Esentially, you got a better class of players in those games rather than every johnny come lately modern MMOs attract. Give me a game where you spend 6+ hours to get one bubble of XP and if you died an entire day (at least) was lost with modern graphics and deep mechanics and I would walk away from GW2 in a heart beat.

And I’m so thankful that MMOs aren’t like this anymore.

I am not asking for all MMOs to be like this. Like most things, there is a place for each to exist side be side. GW2 for those who want casual, and something else for those of us that want to play with like minded people. Every MMO I have played has caved in and become more and more casual and, frankly, it has ruined the game. I just want one game that, at end game, you know that those who are there are competent and knowledgeable.

Sounds like Darkfall Unholy Wars is the game you are looking for.

Nick.6972:

Can’t name you which ones they were, it was like 14+ years ago on SEGA.
I can give you other example though. Mirror’s Edge Time Challanges, I’ve played one single level for 3 hours just to get time that was required.

then it really should not have taken you that long.

When it comes to Mirror’s Edge time challenges I didn’t see a point in doing them when most of the records seemed to be done by hacking “Finish this challenge under 10 minutes, the fastest record for this is 5 seconds”. Can’t wait for Mirror’s Edge 2 though

Mirta.5029:

Nick.6972:

Can’t name you which ones they were, it was like 14+ years ago on SEGA.
I can give you other example though. Mirror’s Edge Time Challanges, I’ve played one single level for 3 hours just to get time that was required.

then it really should not have taken you that long.

When it comes to Mirror’s Edge time challenges I didn’t see a point in doing them when most of the records seemed to be done by hacking “Finish this challenge under 10 minutes, the fastest record for this is 5 seconds”. Can’t wait for Mirror’s Edge 2 though

It was about 3 years ago, when I got my first Xbox and I wan’t all that great with consoles and controllers.
It was easy if you weren’t aiming (if I remember correctly) for max stars for the achievement, it was if you were.

Imagine trying to achieve 6 minute speed run for 3+ hours, failing and failing and failing and failing all the time, and you keep playing and playing and playing and playing untill you’re really good and then when you finally achieve it – it’s a great feeling. I don’t think you can feel the same in this game, unless if you’re aiming for Legendary.

Nick.6972:

It was about 3 years ago, when I got my first Xbox and I wan’t all that great with consoles and controllers.
It was easy if you weren’t aiming (if I remember correctly) for max stars for the achievement, it was if you were.

Imagine trying to achieve 6 minute speed run for 3+ hours, failing and failing and failing and failing all the time, and you keep playing and playing and playing and playing untill you’re really good and then when you finally achieve it – it’s a great feeling. I don’t think you can feel the same in this game, unless if you’re aiming for Legendary.

there’s always ways to challenge yourself in the game.
solo dungeons
try to make a naked dungeon run
solo less popular group events while guesting on low pop servers (Fire Shaman – really hard like that)
try to create an ultimate build to be able to go 1v5 in PvP without choosing a cheap class (like try an engie or a necro)
Do a character that you will delete if you’ll die once
try and level up a character by doing PVE by setting a gear cap of yourself (you’ll never upgrade above level 30 greens or something like that)

Not all content is challenging, but not everything is easy. I think that besides a few points (like dragon fights) the difficulty is alright as it is.

I’d do that If I’d get rewarded for that with at least a Title that can be displayed over my name and which would actually mean something, or a special /emotion.

Nick.6972:

I’d do that If I’d get rewarded for that with at least a Title that can be displayed over my name and which would actually mean something, or a special /emotion.

I do agree that there should be more titles for more various things.
However if you love challenge you should do it just for the sake of challenging yourself.

I would have never played one single speed run in Mirror’s Edge for 3+ hours if I knew I would get nothing for it.
How do you display to someone you’re a better player than he is?

For example in GW1, when I started playing Heroes Ascent, my goal was to become as good as the top rated people, I would have never played for hours searching for a team just because of “fun”. It was painfully slow and mind-numbing boring at times but when I reached rank 3 I knew it was worth it and that kept be going up until rank 8.

i often hear this argument about todays games being way too easy and what not, and i kinda agree with it, but only to a certain point. you see, when i was a kid there were tons of challenging and hard games, like oddworld abes oddysee for example, i cant count the hours spent to finish the game, all the frustration and fun – that was like 12? years ago, i was about 10 back then. now to the point, i installed that same game a year ago, im 22 now, and i finished it in couple of hours without any trouble. the same exact game that was a pain in the kitten when i was a kid, was now a piece of cake.

and the point is, that even though we remember games being hard in the past, it might have something to do with the fact that we were just kids.

besides that, english isnt my first language so back then when i was a kid i didnt know it, so i had no frikin idea whats going on in the game or what am i supposed to do or how. this language barrier also made the game a lot harder than it shouldve been. and i guess its safe to assume that i wasnt the only one having this issue.

my 2cents about what you should consider before saying games were more difficult when you were a kid.

Nick.6972:

I would have never played one single speed run in Mirror’s Edge for 3+ hours if I knew I would get nothing for it.
How do you display to someone you’re a better player than he is?

For example in GW1, when I started playing Heroes Ascent, my goal was to become as good as the top rated people, I would have never played for hours searching for a team just because of “fun”. It was painfully slow and mind-numbing boring at times but when I reached rank 3 I knew it was worth it and that kept be going up until rank 8.

I never needed to know that I’m better than someone else. I didn’t chose to go on Mass Effect 1 as a sniper on the hardest difficulty just because I wanted something to show off afterwards. Hell I didn’t run trough Silent Hill 1 on the hardest difficulty finding every ending possible just to get some “achievement” to boast about. Before achievements there were people challenging themselves for fun. It’s about pushing your own personal boundaries, not about getting something shinny at the end of it.