Guild Wars 2

Aoshi.4785:

If you look at it from their side, the business side. Do they want to severely limit people getting legendaries? Or do they want people in the game, playing it, making the gold, getting the karma, doing the jp and world map completion?

The requirements as they are, steep as they may be, are attainable by most. A long grueling quest that involves some skill and would be, at the outset, daunting to this “casual” player base would keep many away (gonna put a note here stating that I am not downing the idea of something skill based as a requisite for a legendary, I am just stating my hypothesis)

The previous wins every time because more people are gunning for it, more people in game, and a chance at having those folks buy gems to trade for gold the legit (and very well less cost effective) way.

They once stated that they figured no more than 5% of the playerbase would be able to get a Legendary.

Yet, as you said, the requirements for a Legendary are attainable by almost anyone. And who wouldn’t go after them, when they’ve been guaranteed to remain BiS forever? They’d be anti-grind protection against future tiers of gear.

I strongly suspect that if we leave Legendaries as is, they will be far, far more frequent among players than just 5% a few years from now. And by that point it’ll be far, far too late to address the problem. This is something they need to fix now, before Legendaries become what everyone in this forum asserts them to be: just an expensive crafting skin attainable by anyone with enough time to grind out the cash, rather than something truly special and rare as they were supposed to be.

I don’t disagree with what you’ve pointed out. I just think that approaching it from the business side of “need to keep people playing NOW” is the wrong approach here. People are going to leave for one reason or another, the only ones who will stay with GW2 are those who are truly dedicated to it. The aim with an MMO should, therefore, be a focus on longevity….and the game won’t have any if everyone still playing the game has got a Legendary down the road, and the game’s non-PvE functionality remains as limited as it is right now.

I have a proposition. Lets stop worrying about what other people have and what percentage of them deserve to have it and start worrying about what makes the game fun or not fun.

To many people worry about who has legendaries that they forget the fact that a game is supposed to be fun and entertaining. I don’t care how many people have legendaries or how hard they are to get, that’s not important. What’s important to me is that I like how it looks then I will go for it. But the issue is the system isn’t fun and anyone who isn’t abusing said system to make truck loads of gold in the game or extremely lucky would likely agree with that fact.

So lets move beyond why the system is broken and talk about how to fix it, because that’s all that’s left to do at this point, even though it’s obvious it won’t matter. Our pleas have fallen on deaf ears as far as this is concerned.

Zenith.7301:

450g Dusks and 478g Legends are not something you grind in a few days; stop lying.

At 50g per day, you could grind that in 9 days. I wouldn’t want to dedicate that much of my time to that, you’re right. But it is well within the realm of possibility.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Zenith.7301:

450g Dusks and 478g Legends are not something you grind in a few days; stop lying.

At 50g per day, you could grind that in 9 days. I wouldn’t want to dedicate that much of my time to that, you’re right. But it is well within the realm of possibility.

and how exactly do you propose to make 50g in one day?

i’m pretty sure if this was achievable by a fair amount of the gw2 population, no one would care about this topic anymore

Jordo.5913:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Zenith.7301:

450g Dusks and 478g Legends are not something you grind in a few days; stop lying.

At 50g per day, you could grind that in 9 days. I wouldn’t want to dedicate that much of my time to that, you’re right. But it is well within the realm of possibility.

and how exactly do you propose to make 50g in one day?

Get an extra job. Buy gold.

DancingPenguins.9875:

Jordo.5913:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Zenith.7301:

450g Dusks and 478g Legends are not something you grind in a few days; stop lying.

At 50g per day, you could grind that in 9 days. I wouldn’t want to dedicate that much of my time to that, you’re right. But it is well within the realm of possibility.

and how exactly do you propose to make 50g in one day?

Get an extra job. Buy gold.

he said grind it out….therefore he is doing something in the game to make 50g per day

Aoshi.4785:

The requirements as they are, steep as they may be, are attainable by most. A long grueling quest that involves some skill and would be, at the outset, daunting to this “casual” player base would keep many away

The current requirement doesn’t catter to “casual” players.

It catters to grinders and grinders only.

Classic MMOs are built on the foundation that they don’t need to be good games (as in, fun and challenging); they just need to create a feeling of addiction and keep people grinding for as long as possible (and thus paying a monthly fee as long as possible). The more people incentivized to grind the better (since it means more people paying those monthly fees), and so grinding has been made to catter to the lowest denominator – it’s something easy and mindless (a bot can do it), but the fact it takes a lot of time (even if all it requires is a lot of time) means it’s a nice investiment for the designers of classic MMOs…

…Or would be, if more people fell for that. But making a mediocre game (something that isn’t fun and challenging) is only going to deceive so many people; and the fact we have so many MMOs in the market right now, all following the same model, means the target audience of grinders is not really enough to make any new MMO a success.

ArenaNet got it right in their Manifesto. When they say, “We don’t want players to grind – no one enjoys that and no one finds it fun”, and “If you like MMOs, you will like MMOs – if you hate MMOs, you will REALLY want to check out GW2”, they are trying to make a MMO cattering to those who understand how the other options currently available are just time sinks disguised as (mediocre) games.

Thus, adding a system that rewards grind to a game like that, whose main target audience is not grinders, is not a good business move. What ArenaNet has to understand is that they were wrong in not marketing enough this game outside of the MMO niche, and that a vocal minority of grinders from other MMOs populating the official forum doesn’t mean they should change the game to turn GW2 into one more generic MMO made for grinders.

Jordo.5913:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Zenith.7301:

450g Dusks and 478g Legends are not something you grind in a few days; stop lying.

At 50g per day, you could grind that in 9 days. I wouldn’t want to dedicate that much of my time to that, you’re right. But it is well within the realm of possibility.

and how exactly do you propose to make 50g in one day?

i’m pretty sure if this was achievable by a fair amount of the gw2 population, no one would care about this topic anymore

1. Join a large guild that does dungeon/fractals
2. Do CoF1 speed runs for several hours
3. Do a fractal daily when you get bored
4. Do some more hours of CoF1
5. Repeat ad nauseum. Emphasis on the nausea

I don’t think a “fair amount” of the population wants to speed run the same path of a dungeon for 8 hours a day, but if you want to make a lot of gold through game play, that’s how to do it.

The thing i like about legendary weapons is how hard they are to get. I saw some legendary weapons and though “wow, that is a cool skin.. i want one” I also saw how much is required to get one.. and decided to collect everything myself.. not buy a thing. Since i enjoy playing the game, running dungeons, collecting ingredients, killing stuff.. and all that.. with the goal of a legendary and casual gaming.. i now have hours and hours … and hours of game play to keep me playing I am against making legendary weapons any easier to get, the rarity is one of the things that makes it special.. bought or not. If you actually have made enough money to ‘buy’ a legendary.. good for you I think. I have never had very much gold because I don’t know how to play the market. it does take some… smarts/thought. I much rather go play the game.
I am interested in seeing what this scavenger hunt will bring though ^^.

If i did hardcore grinding to get the legendary (the most epic looking of all weapons) in a few weeks… what then would keep me playing this game? after i get my legendary what do i do.. make another one? HAH..(maybe if there is a second one cool enough to get) run around and show it off.. WvW, PvP….. get bored.. quit game/wait for new content.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Jordo.5913:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Zenith.7301:

450g Dusks and 478g Legends are not something you grind in a few days; stop lying.

At 50g per day, you could grind that in 9 days. I wouldn’t want to dedicate that much of my time to that, you’re right. But it is well within the realm of possibility.

and how exactly do you propose to make 50g in one day?

i’m pretty sure if this was achievable by a fair amount of the gw2 population, no one would care about this topic anymore

1. Join a large guild that does dungeon/fractals
2. Do CoF1 speed runs for several hours
3. Do a fractal daily when you get bored
4. Do some more hours of CoF1
5. Repeat ad nauseum. Emphasis on the nausea

I don’t think a “fair amount” of the population wants to speed run the same path of a dungeon for 8 hours a day, but if you want to make a lot of gold through game play, that’s how to do it.

You still wouldn’t get 50g in 1 day with that method. That’s what I did in my vacation and I got around 20g a day (not counting lucky exotic drops, which I almost never got).

When they add more legendaries I’d be fine with them adding new ways to get them etc besides just huge cash sinks.

Only question is, what could be a large and challenging quest in this game? Let’s face it, there isn’t any individual thing in this game that’s difficult or challenging. Having people run all the paths of all the dungeons or something wouldn’t be hard, just another annoying grind pretty comparable to grinding gold. PvP can be challenging depending on who you’re fighting or what the situation is, but getting tokens from killing players isn’t challenging, you’ll get them.

There isn’t really anything in this game that you can fail at if you care. You might wipe in a dungeon, but if your group doesn’t mind dying, they’ll finish it. Some fractals were difficult at first, but unless you’re at some super high difficulty where 30 agony resist isn’t enough to protect you from agony, most players would agree that the main challenge is just having people stick around and not have too many people disconnect.

I can’t think of some new way to get legendaries that wouldn’t just “take a really long time” (Much like getting the gold for one does) rather than something that’s more in the spirit of “Really hard to get” like many probably want.

They could have a really long checklist of things to do in the game to get a legendary (Like the old epic quests from Everquest), none of which involve buying anything, but let’s face it nothing on that list would be hard because nothing in the game is hard. They’d have to add new things to the game that were actually difficult to put on that list.

Believe it or not, the only thing I can think of that they’ve added since release that was truly difficult for many people was the Mad King clock tower, and I don’t think most people would find the idea of doing a bunch of new and difficult jump puzzles the kind of thing you should be doing for a legendary.

After reading everything Colin said, I feel pretty good about how it will all turn out. Linsey does a good job and will come up with something awesome. Colin has to be murky about it, because the system isnt in place yet. They are still designing it. Patience.

Iason Evan.3806:

After reading everything Colin said, I feel pretty good about how it will all turn out. Linsey does a good job and will come up with something awesome. Colin has to be murky about it, because the system isnt in place yet. They are still designing it. Patience.

They shouldn’t have even mentioned two months ago then. When you mention something people automatically assume it’s either in development or it’s almost done. It’s THEIR fault that people thought it was being actively worked on.

Minion of Vey.4398:

When they add more legendaries I’d be fine with them adding new ways to get them etc besides just huge cash sinks.

Only question is, what could be a large and challenging quest in this game? Let’s face it, there isn’t any individual thing in this game that’s difficult or challenging. Having people run all the paths of all the dungeons or something wouldn’t be hard, just another annoying grind pretty comparable to grinding gold. PvP can be challenging depending on who you’re fighting or what the situation is, but getting tokens from killing players isn’t challenging, you’ll get them.

Actually, I’ve already made a suggestion in the vein of what I’d like to see, as linked in my signature. I’ll quote it for the sake of ease.

Just as an example, Yakkington’s Ring (an Ascended item) is an item with tremendous nostalgic value to GW1 players and countless historical value. It seems a total waste that it can only be obtained by running Fractals nearly a dozen times. Imagine if it had been a legendary item instead, whose quest starts at Yakkington’s gravesite. You visit there, feeling a source of tremendous power, only to find yourself pulled into the Mists. There you encounter Nicholas the Traveler and Professor Yakkington, and you can talk with them. Nicholas, obviously not willing to hang over the ring for nothing, sends you on a quest to explore the world of Tyria and face off against the ghosts of its past in a huge quest that takes you around the world, just like how Nicholas himself would travel around the world asking for all sorts of junk. Simple concepts like that would take the idea of ‘legendary’ items and turn them into something with TONS of lore and sentimental value behind it, challenging players and giving them a reason to feel like this item is something fantastic and special.

Such a quest could have huge ties to old GW1 lore, making it a thorough nostalgia trip for anyone who played those games, and would add huge significance to the Legendary items in question.

For example, wouldn’t the quest for Eternity be much more interesting if you were told that it was a reforging of the greatsword that Grenth used to defeat Dhuum and take over the Underworld? And, in accordance with this, you’d have to travel deep into the Underworld to collect the shards of the broken greatsword to forge Twilight, and then travel across Tyria collecting the shards of the greatsword to forge Sunrise, with the minions of Dhuum hot on your heels at all times. Finally, you quest deep into the Underworld and have a final confrontation with Dhuum himself, 1-vs-1, to finish the reforging of the sword. You can’t possibly tell me that wouldn’t be far more epic than it is right now.

It’s honestly and truly not hard to come up with great ideas for background stories for each of these Legendaries. Yes, it’d be a ton of work, I do not deny that. They’d have needed to invest a lot of time into it. But I also remember a development team that promised only to release this game “when it’s ready” and how they would only give us a finished product that they’d continue to add to. If they had stuck to their principles and released the game later on, with Legendaries in this format and several other issues with the game fixed as well, they’d have created a far superior game. It’s only because they rushed the game out to compete with SWTOR and TERA that we’re in this situation. Now it’s time for them to fix it.

Charming Rogue.8071:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Jordo.5913:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Zenith.7301:

450g Dusks and 478g Legends are not something you grind in a few days; stop lying.

At 50g per day, you could grind that in 9 days. I wouldn’t want to dedicate that much of my time to that, you’re right. But it is well within the realm of possibility.

and how exactly do you propose to make 50g in one day?

i’m pretty sure if this was achievable by a fair amount of the gw2 population, no one would care about this topic anymore

1. Join a large guild that does dungeon/fractals
2. Do CoF1 speed runs for several hours
3. Do a fractal daily when you get bored
4. Do some more hours of CoF1
5. Repeat ad nauseum. Emphasis on the nausea

I don’t think a “fair amount” of the population wants to speed run the same path of a dungeon for 8 hours a day, but if you want to make a lot of gold through game play, that’s how to do it.

You still wouldn’t get 50g in 1 day with that method. That’s what I did in my vacation and I got around 20g a day (not counting lucky exotic drops, which I almost never got).

Maybe you didn’t play enough hours per day? Or maybe you had too much downtime between runs/groups. Hence the first part of my advice, join a large dungeon guild. Not waiting for groups, not dealing with pugs, not dealing with idiots makes everything significantly more efficient.

critickitten.1498:

Minion of Vey.4398:

When they add more legendaries I’d be fine with them adding new ways to get them etc besides just huge cash sinks.

Only question is, what could be a large and challenging quest in this game? Let’s face it, there isn’t any individual thing in this game that’s difficult or challenging. Having people run all the paths of all the dungeons or something wouldn’t be hard, just another annoying grind pretty comparable to grinding gold. PvP can be challenging depending on who you’re fighting or what the situation is, but getting tokens from killing players isn’t challenging, you’ll get them.

Actually, I’ve already made a suggestion in the vein of what I’d like to see, as linked in my signature. I’ll quote it for the sake of ease.

Just as an example, Yakkington’s Ring (an Ascended item) is an item with tremendous nostalgic value to GW1 players and countless historical value. It seems a total waste that it can only be obtained by running Fractals nearly a dozen times. Imagine if it had been a legendary item instead, whose quest starts at Yakkington’s gravesite. You visit there, feeling a source of tremendous power, only to find yourself pulled into the Mists. There you encounter Nicholas the Traveler and Professor Yakkington, and you can talk with them. Nicholas, obviously not willing to hang over the ring for nothing, sends you on a quest to explore the world of Tyria and face off against the ghosts of its past in a huge quest that takes you around the world, just like how Nicholas himself would travel around the world asking for all sorts of junk. Simple concepts like that would take the idea of ‘legendary’ items and turn them into something with TONS of lore and sentimental value behind it, challenging players and giving them a reason to feel like this item is something fantastic and special.

Such a quest could have huge ties to old GW1 lore, making it a thorough nostalgia trip for anyone who played those games, and would add huge significance to the Legendary items in question.

For example, wouldn’t the quest for Eternity be much more interesting if you were told that it was a reforging of the greatsword that Grenth used to defeat Dhuum and take over the Underworld? And, in accordance with this, you’d have to travel deep into the Underworld to collect the shards of the broken greatsword to forge Twilight, and then travel across Tyria collecting the shards of the greatsword to forge Sunrise, with the minions of Dhuum hot on your heels at all times. Finally, you quest deep into the Underworld and have a final confrontation with Dhuum himself, 1-vs-1, to finish the reforging of the sword. You can’t possibly tell me that wouldn’t be far more epic than it is right now.

It’s honestly and truly not hard to come up with great ideas for background stories for each of these Legendaries. Yes, it’d be a ton of work, I do not deny that. They’d have needed to invest a lot of time into it. But I also remember a development team that promised only to release this game “when it’s ready” and how they would only give us a finished product that they’d continue to add to. If they had stuck to their principles and released the game later on, with Legendaries in this format and several other issues with the game fixed as well, they’d have created a far superior game. It’s only because they rushed the game out to compete with SWTOR and TERA that we’re in this situation. Now it’s time for them to fix it.

Oh I definitely agree they could ADD a bunch of new things to the game eventually, that could be worthy of making a legendary item. However considering we’re looking at months before they even can implement a scavenger hunt for precursors, I haven’t even bothered considering and listing potential ideas.

Mostly because I’m used to those ideas being tossed around on forums for similar things in other games. Devs might even chime in and say “This would be a great idea!”, then 6 months later the big change is they up drop rates a little or something while in the mean time implementing content that has little to nothing to do with what anyone asks for.

That might sound pessimistic but it has so consistently been the case in games that I’ve played over the years that I no longer consider it pessimism, just reality. We don’t even have guesting yet, something that I would have figured would be very high on their agenda, given how much people have expressed interest in it and how much designers themselves talked about it. So I rarely aim high when talking about things to add to the game, since in my experience it’s the same as not bothering aiming for anything at all.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Charming Rogue.8071:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Jordo.5913:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Zenith.7301:

450g Dusks and 478g Legends are not something you grind in a few days; stop lying.

At 50g per day, you could grind that in 9 days. I wouldn’t want to dedicate that much of my time to that, you’re right. But it is well within the realm of possibility.

and how exactly do you propose to make 50g in one day?

i’m pretty sure if this was achievable by a fair amount of the gw2 population, no one would care about this topic anymore

1. Join a large guild that does dungeon/fractals
2. Do CoF1 speed runs for several hours
3. Do a fractal daily when you get bored
4. Do some more hours of CoF1
5. Repeat ad nauseum. Emphasis on the nausea

I don’t think a “fair amount” of the population wants to speed run the same path of a dungeon for 8 hours a day, but if you want to make a lot of gold through game play, that’s how to do it.

You still wouldn’t get 50g in 1 day with that method. That’s what I did in my vacation and I got around 20g a day (not counting lucky exotic drops, which I almost never got).

Maybe you didn’t play enough hours per day? Or maybe you had too much downtime between runs/groups. Hence the first part of my advice, join a large dungeon guild. Not waiting for groups, not dealing with pugs, not dealing with idiots makes everything significantly more efficient.

Nope, it’s a simple little thing called DR. The end result was almost no silver, the only silver I got was from bosses (so like: ~40s per run with omnom berry), 1 run = 7-10 minutes. ~2,5g per hour.
DR also affects chests and drops, so you get almost no rares.
Also sometimes the dungeon gets contested and you have to wait 6 minutes.

I have no idea how you’re getting 50g. tbh I think you’re counting in lucky drops or are just lying.

Charming Rogue.8071:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Charming Rogue.8071:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Jordo.5913:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Zenith.7301:

450g Dusks and 478g Legends are not something you grind in a few days; stop lying.

At 50g per day, you could grind that in 9 days. I wouldn’t want to dedicate that much of my time to that, you’re right. But it is well within the realm of possibility.

and how exactly do you propose to make 50g in one day?

i’m pretty sure if this was achievable by a fair amount of the gw2 population, no one would care about this topic anymore

1. Join a large guild that does dungeon/fractals
2. Do CoF1 speed runs for several hours
3. Do a fractal daily when you get bored
4. Do some more hours of CoF1
5. Repeat ad nauseum. Emphasis on the nausea

I don’t think a “fair amount” of the population wants to speed run the same path of a dungeon for 8 hours a day, but if you want to make a lot of gold through game play, that’s how to do it.

You still wouldn’t get 50g in 1 day with that method. That’s what I did in my vacation and I got around 20g a day (not counting lucky exotic drops, which I almost never got).

Maybe you didn’t play enough hours per day? Or maybe you had too much downtime between runs/groups. Hence the first part of my advice, join a large dungeon guild. Not waiting for groups, not dealing with pugs, not dealing with idiots makes everything significantly more efficient.

Nope, it’s a simple little thing called DR. The end result was almost no silver, the only silver I got was from bosses (so like: ~40s per run with omnom berry), 1 run = 7-10 minutes. ~2,5g per hour.
DR also affects chests and drops, so you get almost no rares.
Also sometimes the dungeon gets contested and you have to wait 6 minutes.

I have no idea how you’re getting 50g. tbh I think you’re counting in lucky drops or are just lying.

Well to be honest, I don’t care at all whether you believe me or not. And for the record, your math is off.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey guys,

Just a quick update on where the whole scavenger hunt system stands since I know that’s a topic many of you have brought up recently. We’re not currently actively working on building any sort of legendary precursor scavenger hunt, this is something we want to do in the future and we’re in the midst of designing how this would function, but no one is actively building this feature and you should not expect in the Jan/Feb/March releases at this point.

We are however working on expanding reward systems to make them more re-rewarding across all parts of the game, making the open world more rewarding, and adding new ways you can earn precursors as rewards via new reward systems taking advantage of our open persistent world.

Some of these additions will come as early as the January release, and will get covered in more detail in the next week or two as well release all the details about this release once testing has signed off it’s all ready to go in January. (we’ll also provide a high level summary of our goals with reward systems, etc. in our 2013 blog post, which should be out next week)

Is ANet going to see any projects all the way through? I swear I just seen the same reply about the smart phone app “delayed”. The scavenger hunt that someone was working on is “delayed” … (scrapped).

What about diminishing returns, will that ever be removed?
Has ANet found “concrete proof” that the drop rates have tanked after Nov. 15th?

Nappychappy.7046:

Is ANet going to see any projects all the way through? I swear I just seen the same reply about the smart phone app “delayed”. The scavenger hunt that someone was working on is “delayed” … (scrapped).

What about diminishing returns, will that ever be removed?
Has ANet found “concrete proof” that the drop rates have tanked after Nov. 15th?

I very much hope so.

I’m not prepared to spend up to 500g on a precursor. I can grind if I have to (had to for the other gifts) but I refuse to pay that much for a weapon that was handed out as a one-time-final-event reward in which I could not part-take because I had to work that day (yeah, a bitter oceanic player, thats right!) :-P

Seriously, though, lets hope the increased rewards for precursors is not just a minuscule increase to the droprate and that they actually put some thought into this.

Why do we need scavenger hunt fro precursors?

The other way is ridiculous…

Soulstar.7812:

Why do we need scavenger hunt fro precursors?

The other way is ridiculous…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47865FYdQjw

That guy’s a moron. Combine the money spent on all those greatswords with whatever he spent making those other videos and he could’ve just bought his precursor.

RNG is RNG.

He has terrible luck. Other people don’t.

Ridiculous is deciding to waste half the cost of buying a precursor on something that’s random.

It’s already obvious that even ANet thinks 550g is way too much for Dusk (or at least that’s what they said, even if they might like as it is). Scavenger hunt is 4 months away + whatever that takes so that’s out.

Whatever they add in 2 weeks from now better not have a forced time delay or we are going to have a problem.

I.e. 1 token /champion killed/day/large area like Kryta, Orr, Maguuma J. => 5-6 area tokens /day MAX and adding precursor to a vendor for 250 tokens while also having ascended gear and bags and other things for the same tokens at the same vendors. That would be BS.

Easier (to be read as “not based on luck and taking a little less time or a lot less if you are playing 8h/day”) way to get a precursor sure but if no matter what I can and want to do I can’t get it faster than 45 days of farming events it’s still not good enough.
If it was like that from the beginning 45 days of events and the 2 months for getting the karma needed + more time for getting the gold it would be fine. After 4 months and 1300h played and having the 3 gifts if they come and say “well you either pay 550g that we admitted is too high or gamble up to 750g in Mystic Fail cough Forge or you wait 45 more days doing events and spam porting all over the world looking for them or still no Twilight for you would be unacceptable.

And no, I don’t care how many ppl have legendaries, I don’t want it to brag about it in LA (we have a Twilight and Dusk on the server and the “brag period” for each was between 0 to 7 minutes and didn’t involve chat).

P.S. I still support the idea of a 5-7% chance for a precursor in the Griffonrook Run hardmode puzzle (with only 1 chest open/day but unlimited attempts). That’s your 5% of player base legendary limit right there (make it account bound and only 1/month max and make the drop a token that you trade for what precursor you want).

Time to quit forums again, “wall of text syndrome” acting up again.

Kain Nosgoth.4218:

but if no matter what I can and want to do I can’t get it faster than 45 days of farming events it’s still not good enough

Actually, I would love if whatever system is implemented has some kind of check to prevent grinders from having an advantage over everyone else. If it’s something like the DR system, which punishes grinders, farmers and addicts, while doing nothing against normal players, I would welcome it with open arms.

“We don’t want players to grind”, remember? Remember my signature, too? ArenaNet should not catter to the vocal minority of grinders while punishing everyone else.

I hate grinding. This is supposed to be a “temp” fix for a broken system that isn’t and hasn’t worked as they wanted it to. When they add scavenger hunt in 6 months by all means make it take 20 days+ and have unique tasks for each precursor and have lore. But I cba to not get my Dusk for another 60 days (from a hard imposed time limit) when there are ppl that got it for nothing AND FAST (that’s the problem) from low lvl rare bugs and Karka event and borrowing gold from ppl after launch etc.

Also they aren’t exactly anti farm, they said if you want to farm something you should be able to but they don’t encourage it. It only becomes grind (which is bad) if you kill earth elementals for 6h day until you get 100 onyx lodestones, and you can’t because of DR and that’s ok.

Kain Nosgoth.4218:

But I cba to not get my Dusk for another 60 days (from a hard imposed time limit) when there are ppl that got it for nothing AND FAST (that’s the problem) from low lvl rare bugs and Karka event and burrowing gold from ppl after launch etc

The issue, IMO, is that ArenaNet doesn’t punish exploiters enough (see everyone who exploited to get gold for their precursors and has been left in the game) and they rely on RNG too much (see Karka chest).

critickitten.1498:

Legendaries should not boil down to RNG or TP, that doesn’t guarantee that the very best players get them. There’s no reason that they can’t introduce a system that relies on skill….and the only proposed solution that would at least take steps to move us towards such a system is not in active development.

Legendaries are not for the best, but the most dedicated players. There should always be multiple ways to achieve them.

Iruwen.3164:

critickitten.1498:

Legendaries should not boil down to RNG or TP, that doesn’t guarantee that the very best players get them. There’s no reason that they can’t introduce a system that relies on skill….and the only proposed solution that would at least take steps to move us towards such a system is not in active development.

Legendaries are not for the best, but the most dedicated players. There should always be multiple ways to achieve them.

One could argue that the most dedicated players aren’t just the ones who will endlessly grind, but also the ones that will perservere and improve their skill when they meet a genuine challenge, such as a challenging fight, a timed jump puzzle. Maybe a labrynth that’s in the dark.

If you spend hours and hours failing, but keep trying, surely that shows dedication as well, no?

That’s correct and basically what I wanted to say, in no way did I mean to defend the concept of grind and RNG. I just stumbled upon the word “best” since that sounds a bit snobbish and is hard to measure anyway. I wouldn’t want to make it impossible for somebody to get a legendary just because he’s bad at JPs, for example. That’s why there should always be multiple ways to achieve it.

So the dev says this:

There will be a new way to aquire precursor. IMO this means something that can be forged in the MF prolly will cost something around these lines: 250 ecto, 250 mystic coins, 250 obsi shards and 250 of a random t6 depending on the desired precursor.

Also the dev stated that they are not actively working on a scavenger hunt, which translates IMO to it will be implemented in the next stand alone expansion.

My 2 cents, flame away white knights

As for the open-world rewards, tokens, money, high-level drops would help dispersed the population. Also, weave-in WvW, PvP, and PVE, closer together on the rewards.

Basically, farming is more lucrative ATM, be it Cursed Shore or dungeon farming. The question is, how do we get people interested in going to other areas? Well what makes people go to cursed shored? That’s the answer: gold/hr, drops, etc… So just replicate that to other areas.

“50 ecto, 250 mystic coins, 250 obsi shards and 250 of a random t6 depending on the desired precursor” would mess up the prices of that stuff reallllllyyyyy bad (mystic coins being the worse. The last thing we need is a legendary to take 350 days to get the coins ourselves or pay 60+ silver for one also making all the unique exotics jump in price). Something like this would kill the idea of getting more than one legendary/year without spending a few hundred gold on mystic coins I’m going to assume they can’t fail so horribly and do something like that.

The perfect quick fix atm would be Naegling+200 obsidian shards + 1 Eldritch Scroll (or Bloodstone shard)+ 1 Sigil= Dusk (most other precursors don’t have lookalikes but you get the idea). It will probably not happen (and it might also be too “easy”).

I’m glad we got some sort of confirmation on this and not going to worry too much about it. I would love to get a Legendary but hoping their priority right now is fixing alot of broken events, balancing, etc….
I certainly can wait.

Iruwen.3164:

critickitten.1498:

Legendaries should not boil down to RNG or TP, that doesn’t guarantee that the very best players get them. There’s no reason that they can’t introduce a system that relies on skill….and the only proposed solution that would at least take steps to move us towards such a system is not in active development.

Legendaries are not for the best, but the most dedicated players. There should always be multiple ways to achieve them.

I’m pretty sure we’re arguing the same thing with different terms.

If, however, you’re attempting to argue that the current model is an example of proving one’s “dedication” to the game….

i have 800 hours of gameplay maybe more, doing dailies doing wvw and dungeons and only got 5 exotics so far.
farming charged lodestones and in a week got only ONE with 130% MF
this supposed to be no grind game but i need to grind my kitten off just to get precursor. or i need to buy gems because you made this game just for bots who usually farm same places for 3 month now (no one got banned and just seen whole guild aprox. 20 ppl teleporting and farming on same place, bot party)

Ummm, theoreticaly speaking, wouldn’t the scavenger hunt make players explore more of the world? This is what ANet wants players to do after all.

To people saying the 1500 GS guy was a moron…

Yeah. Maybe he was. What you have to realize is that perhaps he had the resources to purchase a precursor, but what he did instead was, he showed exactly how bad the odds are of getting one in the forge. When you go 0/1500, statistically speaking the odds must absolutely horrid. That’s what he was attempting to discover, and it’s something that shows specifically how RMT and the day-trader population have been able to manipulate the price to make it impossible for an average joe to get one.

Thanks for the update though, Anet! I gotta say, it must be frustrating to you guys to see your attempts at communication causing such negative feedback all the time, but there are those of us who realize that in the big picture it’s great to have a dev team willing to speak to us about what they’re thinking. You can’t make everybody happy all the time, but trying your best to tell us what’s going on is really great.

friendly reminder/food for thought: this may be (not put in game yet; obviously) an alternative way to getting a Precursor and the rest of the process to get a Legendary will still be there. When it is eventually (possibly) put in game, using the MForge and Dragon loot still have the chance to get precursors, I’d assume.

Perhaps it helps to get a specific Precursor, or maybe it might give you a random one that maybe you can’t use for your current characters. Like the Ancient Karka did. 0o

I don’t think I can resurrect anything in me to celebrate these new murmurs.

No one could be more supportive of Anet than I am…and devoted, with zillions of hours in GW1 and GW2.

I can’t talk about my experiences with the Mystic Forge…too painful. I’m not obsessed with legendaries, but I’m willing to work stupendously hard at insanely difficult adventures and misadventures to get something cool to hang up in my home instance. Oh wait, we can’t do that yet.

But I will never buy one on the TP, nor can I fathom how it is assigned to pure luck and then horrific grinding. So not what we were told in the months leading up to release. Shame, shame.

Nor how dull it is when grp after grp experience ends with, “Oh, 2 blues and an acct. bound minor upgrade. Again.” Or that someone in the group is actually delirious over getting a rare. Exotics don’t even enter the conversation. Actually, people get energized over a green, which is sad. It’s almost like greens are set to yellow rarity, yellow is set to exotic rarity, exotic is set to “yeah right” and I’m not talking about pre-cursors ever again.

I used to believe. I want to believe. I still play zillions of hours. I don’t worship shinies. But for god’s sakes, could we sometimes get some? From being awesome players, though. Not through blind luck, using real world money or grind. You promised! Many times!

Like i said before Anet can post n say they are working on stuff like they said before now they said they are not loike w/e this game is done n boring for me i think im done with gw2 now ive put over 600g worth of Extoics into Mystic forge and still cant get my Precurser ur RNG System is Trash its not Rewarding and ive done dragon chests daily like 4-8 of em a day and this is beyond annoying and im beyond kitten Gold Farmers own ur Game now they sell precursers and Legendarys now they run GW2 now it seems

Thats my 2 Cents n Rant good day!

Demeron.5423:

Like i said before Anet can post n say they are working on stuff like they said before now they said they are not loike w/e this game is done n boring for me i think im done with gw2 now ive put over 600g worth of Extoics into Mystic forge and still cant get my Precurser ur RNG System is Trash its not Rewarding and ive done dragon chests daily like 4-8 of em a day and this is beyond annoying and im beyond kitten Gold Farmers own ur Game now they sell precursers and Legendarys now they run GW2 now it seems

Thats my 2 Cents n Rant good day!

Nice run on.

If you put over 600g into exotics, why didn’t you just use that gold to buy the precursor?

i crafted tons of Swords… and put them in daily its not like I just made n sold em… its dumb gold Farmers run this game and thats the trueth

domxnik.1453:

Demeron.5423:

Like i said before Anet can post n say they are working on stuff like they said before now they said they are not loike w/e this game is done n boring for me i think im done with gw2 now ive put over 600g worth of Extoics into Mystic forge and still cant get my Precurser ur RNG System is Trash its not Rewarding and ive done dragon chests daily like 4-8 of em a day and this is beyond annoying and im beyond kitten Gold Farmers own ur Game now they sell precursers and Legendarys now they run GW2 now it seems

Thats my 2 Cents n Rant good day!

Nice run on.

If you put over 600g into exotics, why didn’t you just use that gold to buy the precursor?

I tripped and they all fell into the Forge, oh no!

Using the Mystic Forge to get a Precursor makes me think that it was an unintentional method that was left in as a ‘feature’ after it was discovered, as it’s a logical continuation of the promotion scheme but it just seems such a massive financial risk.

Spending 600g seems crazy, yo. I could probably buy one of every other (non-Legendary/Precursor/Ascended) item in the game for that much! Maybe. Possibly.

The mystic forge implementation was a good idea in theory. In practise, though, RNG kittened it up like a can snorting a flufball out of its nose.

ya well i farm my Own Ore on 4 of my lv 80’s i do the Dragon events every day and i have alot of MF.. but still nuthing..

For anyone ‘thinking’ this way:
“putting xxx gold in the mystic forge, oh no, you could have bought any precursor… "

You don’t buy or craft hundreds of gold worth of rares/exotics to dump in there in one go. It simply accumulates from the moment you’ve decided to pursue w/e legendary. It may be 10g at a time, maybe more, maybe less. It depends on how many items’s you have crafted on the day or how many buy orders got filled. Then, after a while you reach a point where you would have been better off just saving your gold to buy it outright, but RNG is RNG and there is nothing to do but continue in the hope that you get lucky.

And people do get lucky. Where else would these items come from? Certainly not open world or dragons. If not for the forge there wouldn’t be any precursors for the manipulators to sell back to us.

Kindly consider this before making any remarks like this in future.

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

For anyone ‘thinking’ this way:
“putting xxx gold in the mystic forge, oh no, you could have bought any precursor… "

You don’t buy or craft hundreds of gold worth of rares/exotics to dump in there in one go. It simply accumulates from the moment you’ve decided to pursue w/e legendary. It may be 10g at a time, maybe more, maybe less. It depends on how many items’s you have crafted on the day or how many buy orders got filled. Then, after a while you reach a point where you would have been better off just saving your gold to buy it outright, but RNG is RNG and there is nothing to do but continue in the hope that you get lucky.

And people do get lucky. Where else would these items come from? Certainly not open world or dragons. If not for the forge there wouldn’t be any precursors for the manipulators to sell back to us.

Kindly consider this before making any remarks like this in future.

I think we all appreciate that, but people should also be able to set themselves a financial limit at which they call their attempts a loss. If a Spark currently costs ~500g to buy from the Trading post, then one might decide that after attempting 100g’s worth of Forging, it’s worthwhile cutting their losses and going for the sure route. At some point, players should consider their relative success against the ongoing financial burden, else they’ll end up effectively losing money that could otherwise be spent on a definite outcome (ie; buying it from the Trading Post).

We all know it’s gambling. Players should appreciate when it’s time to cut their losses and call it a day.

proxy.7963:

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

For anyone ‘thinking’ this way:
“putting xxx gold in the mystic forge, oh no, you could have bought any precursor… "

You don’t buy or craft hundreds of gold worth of rares/exotics to dump in there in one go. It simply accumulates from the moment you’ve decided to pursue w/e legendary. It may be 10g at a time, maybe more, maybe less. It depends on how many items’s you have crafted on the day or how many buy orders got filled. Then, after a while you reach a point where you would have been better off just saving your gold to buy it outright, but RNG is RNG and there is nothing to do but continue in the hope that you get lucky.

And people do get lucky. Where else would these items come from? Certainly not open world or dragons. If not for the forge there wouldn’t be any precursors for the manipulators to sell back to us.

Kindly consider this before making any remarks like this in future.

I think we all appreciate that, but people should also be able to set themselves a financial limit at which they call their attempts a loss. If a Spark currently costs ~500g to buy from the Trading post, then one might decide that after attempting 100g’s worth of Forging, it’s worthwhile cutting their losses and going for the sure route. At some point, players should consider their relative success against the ongoing financial burden, else they’ll end up effectively losing money that could otherwise be spent on a definite outcome (ie; buying it from the Trading Post).

We all know it’s gambling. Players should appreciate when it’s time to cut their losses and call it a day.

Good post.

But, consider that, until you have passed the actual going rate for said precursor with your attempts in the MF, you have lost nothing. The next forge could yield the weapon and, if it does, you would have saved the difference between TP price and what you’ve gambled away up to that point.

Also, (and I’m not denying that this is probably the best option for most people, but) using your example of having spent 100g already, then deciding to cut your losses and rather save up, will effectively end with the 100g being added to total expenditure on the weapon upon date of purchase. So a 600g weapon would have cost you 700g, in effect. For a lot of people this is unacceptable, especially if there is a chance that the next forge will be the lucky one.

It is a broken mechanic that is taking advantage of human nature. Some will give up and go the gem store route, some will exploit or buy from third parties, others will come to the forums and complain because they love the game and want to see it fixed.

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

Good post.

But, consider that, until you have passed the actual going rate for said precursor with your attempts in the MF, you have lost nothing. The next forge could yield the weapon and, if it does, you would have saved the difference between TP price and what you’ve gambled away up to that point.

Also, (and I’m not denying that this is probably the best option for most people, but) using your example of having spent 100g already, then deciding to cut your losses and rather save up, will effectively end with the 100g being added to total expenditure on the weapon upon date of purchase. So a 600g weapon would have cost you 700g, in effect. For a lot of people this is unacceptable, especially if there is a chance that the next forge will be the lucky one.

It is a broken mechanic that is taking advantage of human nature. Some will give up and go the gem store route, some will exploit or buy from third parties, others will come to the forums and complain because they love the game and want to see it fixed.

I’m absolutely not defending the mechanic. Just want to get that clear before I continue.

You understand that the basis of this behaviour is the old ‘one more go’ appeal of the thing. Frankly, there’s a decent amount of that in GW2 and in many other games, though it seems most prevalent in free-to-play games as a means of earning revenue. However, I don’t completely support the players in their complaints based on one thing – they are in control. They can decide when something is not worth what they’re putting into it. Hundreds of hours’ worth of gold risked to get a shiny sword that most people don’t have is something that people should acknowledge and appreciate, and while ANet is culpable for the mechanic, they are not the ones pressing the button over and over. If this is about the exploitation of compulsive behaviour, then that’s something that demands a whole new discussion beyond the implementation of Precursors in the game. It’s a big topic.

And you have absolutely lost something by throwing things into the Forge and not getting a Precursor. You lose time, you lose resources and you lose patience. The concept that it might be worth it in the end is the very thing that the whole deal relies upon, but so long as an outcome is not a definite, it’s generally not a good idea to bet on it. Never make a bet when you don’t have an idea of the odds and never forget that the size of the reward does not always justify the odds themselves.

darkace.8925:

TheDaiBish.9735:

I sense a lot of rage building that’s going to manifest itself into a billion threads.

Anyhows, thanks for the update. Looking forward to them posts.

There are petulant children who are going to throw a tantrum no matter what. Make precursors too hard to get, and the game sucks because it requires too much grinding. Make precursors too easy to get, and the game sucks because it panders to casuals. It’s literally a lose/lose scenario. If I were the devs I’d not let the whining cacophony from the peanut gallery sway me too far from my original vision.

This would be great advice… but you’re too late they already did and straying too far from the original vision is why there’s a player divide and an unhappy forum.